Guest: Nick Kokonas, co-founder of the Alinea Group and former CEO of Tock

As of October 1, 2024, Nick Kokonas is no longer an owner of the Alinea restaurant group, which he co-founded and ran for almost 20 years. When he bought a vineyard in Napa Valley prior to the exit, one of his sons remarked, “He's given up. Time to go out to pasture.”

Nick admits that the work ahead of him is “not the same” as the high-pressure world of a Michelin-starred restaurant in Chicago. But he’s started working with the magician Nate Staniforth on a new restaurant concept that will present diners with illusions and surprises over the course of a two-hour experience.

“If you want to feel wonder and feel childlike again, go see a magician,” Nick says. “[But] there’s so much bad cultural baggage ... what we wanted to do was create an experience that is not really about magic.”

Chapters:

(02:29) - Celebrity restauranteurs
(07:14) - The next act
(12:30) - Buying the vineyard
(15:37) - Fear is motivating
(17:59) - Opening night
(22:03) - Tongue cancer
(27:56) - “OK, let’s fix this”
(31:10) - Selling experience
(38:32) - The table plate
(42:40) - Feeling full
(44:14) - Next Restaurant and Tock
(49:33) - Being still
(51:19) - Nate Staniforth’s lottery illusion
(56:57) - The magic restaurant
(01:02:29) - Being misunderstood
(01:07:44) - Working via email
(01:11:43) - “Enemies”
(01:18:23) - Who Nick is hiring and what “grit” means to him

Mentioned in this episode: Mike Gamson, Shaquille O’Neal, Jeff Kaplan, Steve Bernacki, Robin Anil, Grant Achatz, OpenTable, American Express, The Big Lebowski, The New York Times, eGullet, Gourmet Magazine, Roger Ebert, Eddie van Halen, Goodfellas, The Devil Wears Prada, Batman, the Chicago Bears, Madonna, Taylor Swift, Bavette’s and Brendan Sodikoff, Pablo Picasso, Chef’s Table, Google, Brian Fitzpatrick, Finding Real Magic, David Blaine, Mark Cuban, Mark Caro, Chicago Magazine, John Mariani, Cat Cora, Homaro Cantu, Dave Portnoy, Pete Wells, and Eric Asimov.

Links:

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This episode was edited by Eric Johnson from LightningPod.fm