A (2:19)

Was like, are, Are you sure?

B (2:20)

Cause I was like, that's kind of busy.

A (2:22)

Well, so before I, I, I, I was in talks with Rice University about, like, coming out there and moderating this panel, and they didn't confirm. And I was like, all right, I want to have a backup. Cause, like, I want something to do before we do the hosting. And then when they did it, I was like, okay, I know we can set it up for the next week and it'll be good.

B (2:39)

Yeah, that's great. Yeah.

A (2:40)

And then you told me it was going to be out here for a.

B (2:41)

Minute, so that's what's up.

A (2:43)

What brought you to Atlanta?

B (2:44)

Just coming to visit, coming to see. Coming to support. And I figured it'd be a great time to connect, you know, with you and see what we could do.

A (2:50)

Heck, yeah. So, I mean, this your camera right here. Introduce your people to yourself.

B (2:54)

Hello, My name is Dr. Taylor Cummings. I'm an education psychologist. Recently earned my Ph.D. in educational psychology from the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. I have a bachelor's in Social Development and Cultural Change and a master's of Education in Curriculum and instruction.

A (3:11)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Doing the money spread with the degrees. You know what I mean? So I know, like, initially, a lot of. A lot of the conversation you have is about, like, kind of deconstructing religion or just bringing a more, I would say, like, more historical and realistic context to it, rather than using the Bible as a history book. You just kind of go through, like, the real history of things. But, like, I know you was mentioning before, before you got your PhD and everything, your parents was like, what we doing?

B (3:42)

Yeah.

A (3:42)

You know what I'm saying? Like, we can all be pro black.

B (3:45)

Where is this going?

A (3:46)

How we gonna, how we gonna do that? Yeah.

B (3:48)

So, honestly, my journey started as a student athlete. I played soccer. Coming out of high school, I had a full ride, Division one, and that's what I was doing. And then I ended up getting injured. I had surgery on both of my legs. I ended up lo my scholarship. Only black girl on the team, all this type of stuff going on. And it was at that moment, I'm like, okay, what do I even. Like, what do I. What am I even into? And I really didn't know. So I just returned, you know, back home to va and I went to community college, actually, just to kind of get my mind right, heal, try to get my grades back up and stuff like that. And then I ended up transferring to an hbcu and when I went to North Carolina, A and T, that changed my life. It really changed my life.

A (4:26)

You went higher learning?

B (4:27)

Yeah. Like, it really. Because it was the first time I had depictions of Africa that were not desolate and poor. And it wasn't my people tired and begging and hurt and in pain and in poverty. I saw lavish luxury, I saw resources. I started to understand what's really going on here. And so that started to click. All the questions I had as a young girl growing up in the church, growing up in private Christian school, trying to understand, okay, why are we in this condition? Why is the human condition so messed up? And me being able to see, okay, what's going on, you know, politically, what's going on with the government, what's going on with resources. The Bilderberg Group, just really understanding, like, splitting up.

A (5:01)

Of Africa when we get into the.

B (5:03)

Yeah, it helped me put all that together. And then I was like. That just sent me down a whole rabbit hole. So I'm obsessed with all of our og, like revolutionaries. I'm watching lecture after lecture after lecture. I'm just like, feeding it. And so I actually interviewed my professor from that course. It was called the Idea of africa. Shout out Dr. Dick. I interviewed her for my dissertation.

A (5:25)

It's just because he's immature, bro.

B (5:27)

Yeah.

A (5:27)

And so I knew as soon as you said it, like, because he's immature. No, he's immature, bro. It's. As soon as you said it, I already knew. This is his reaction, cuz. I know you shout out Dr. Dick, man. Yes. You know what I'm saying? That's my burner account on Instagram.

B (5:45)

Dr. Now we know. But no, she was incredible, and she opened the pathway for me, and that was just the end of it. So I interviewed her, we talked about it, and she was like, you were so thirsty for knowledge. She's like, you be in the class, you be reading ahead. She's like, you reading? You ready to talk? And everyone's kind of waiting on you to see what Taylor gonna say, you know, she's like. At first, it was kind of like Taylor tripping. Like, they didn't really. Like, they're like, what's going on with her? Like, da, da, da. And then she said, by the end of the semester, they look into you. Like, yo, what's. What's she got to say?

A (6:13)

Like a student teacher, she was like.

B (6:15)

No, y' all not gonna piggyback off of her. Like, she read, you know, what are we doing? You know? And so that was really the start of My journey. And then from there, I was just like, I was working in alternative schools. I was restraining students a lot. I was working in behavioral classrooms and stuff like that. I was like, this ain't right. Like, I don't wanna be putting my hands on kids. This is also not the way to get them to behave either. And so just really trying to understand, where can I. Where's my role in this? You know, what can I do to really enact change? And so I literally one day just typed in education and psychology, because those are two things that I really care about. And I found educational psychology, and I found somebody named Dr. Deleon Gray who was talking about being black and belonging. And I was like, oh, I could. That's like, my life experience. And I can, like, do that. I can do that for a living. And so my mom was like, reach out to him. Reached out, said, hey, this is what I'm interested in doing. Da, da, da, da. He said, you know, what do you think about coming here? I went there for my master's, and then from there, it was just all about trying to bring the truth back to education. So understanding that we've been misinformed, we've been lied to, and it's been an intentional lie in terms of trying to manipulate our worldview. And so I deal a lot with how our worldview is constructed, and that's a socially constructed thing that we're dealing with, how we've all been socialized through the Western school system and all these types of things. And so that's what my research has been about, is Understanding the Miseducation of Me. And so that was the title of my dissertation, the Miseducation of Taylor Cummings, An Autoethnographic Analysis of Belonging in the United States Education System and a Vision Towards Healing and Consciousness.

A (7:42)

Hey, that's real hip hop.

B (7:44)

It is. Yeah, that's hip hop. Exactly.

A (7:46)

So let's rewind back. So when you say that you were younger.

B (7:49)

Yeah.

A (7:50)

Growing up in the church and then going to, like, private Christian schools. Was this like a predominantly white Christian school and. Or was it like a diverse thing? Because I can imagine that, like. Like what you were saying about your soccer scholarship, you kind of get used to being, like, the only black person in these spaces. So, like, the HBCU just kind of like, open up your worldview. But how was it navigating those spaces with the compound of religion and racism always being at play?

B (8:18)

I'd say, as a young girl, I wasn't hyper aware of race or racism. Obviously, I know I'm brown. I know I'm da da da. But my environment was mixy in terms of like my classmates. Right. We had white, black, Latino kids, but the institution itself, my teachers were all white. You know, I had maybe like one Spanish teacher assistant or something like that, but every like the institution was white. But my, you know, my classmates and stuff, I had cultural experiences, but it was just really the Eurocentric ways of being and knowing. And you're taught to ask for permission and stand and do like you're, it's.

A (8:53)

Fashioned after this like European mindset. Yeah.

B (8:56)

And so. And my churches were black. I mean I went to non denominational churches. I had black pastors, black people, but there was still some white Jesus stuff. You know, that's part of my dissertation. I have like literally all my artifacts from pre k to the PhD. My mom saved everything, so shout out to her. And I have like my kindergarten graduation certificate with white Jesus and the lamb. And I have all these images. Right. So I talk about what that's telling you. Subconsciously. You think that your God or the creator of the universe or the creator of all things is not somebody who looks like you or is real person at all. You know, so really getting into the scientific and so trying to bridge that gap between science and spirituality has been really important to me.

A (9:36)

That's good. I, you know, when we was growing up, we had the picture of Jesus with the locks, you know what I'm saying?

B (9:44)

I never had that.

A (9:45)

Yeah, like, like we had like, it was like the one. So it's that original where he just kind of looking off into the distance. But like. Yeah, he got locks and then it's the one where he like he bound, he got locked and then he got a staff, he got lost. It was like in my grandma house, my mama house and stuff like that. So the first time I'm growing up in like African Methodist church and then Baptist church, and then like the first time I went to somebody house and I seen a picture of white Jesus, I was like, who the. Who is that?

B (10:14)

Yeah.

A (10:14)

And it's like, that's Jesus.

B (10:15)

I was like, I don't know if.

A (10:17)

That'S Jesus, guys, because the Jesus at the crib got locks, like really low key. That's why I'm trying to get the.

B (10:22)

Locks, you know what I'm saying?

A (10:24)

But I think that it was just odd. It was odd because of how like it's all fashioned after like this similar person. Of course, like we know the story of like Caesar Borgia and yeah, you know, Michael Not Michelangelo. Who is it?

B (10:38)

The artist?

A (10:38)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he like fashioned it after season Borgia. And so it was like when I found out, yeah, I ain't gonna hold you. I, I, when I found out about like the council at Nicaea. And then this is when like Instagram was like very text based. It was text and photo base, you remember, like you would have to. It wasn't. No, like, it was like these, you.

B (11:03)

Just had your photos.

A (11:04)

It was, that was it. It was no music, no nothing. You just like, like. So I was, I, I started hitting with the letter J is only years old. Like when I, like when I went through that council in ICA and like really understood how they introduced religious to the west and like what the whole play was around, like revising the King James Bible and all these different things, I was like, oh, this is crazy, you know what I'm saying? Because it was also on the back of me, like, not necessarily deconstructing religion, but like not understanding church and how it operated. And so I was just trying to kind of get to the origins of these things. And it started with like church in like the 1940s-60s. And I was like, I really like this era of church because it was like activism, but it's also like heavily worshiped and praised and it feels very communal. And I was like, you know, but the church I'm in now don't operate like that. And I bounced around at these different churches and none of them operate like this. I was like, what the fuck? But then you just hard stop into like, is this shit even real? And it's like, like I had that cognitive dissonance for a grip, but I was just never public about it because I like to sit with information for a little while and kind of formulate my own opinion. Because just as much as somebody is trying to push a narrative, there's always an opposite side of that narrative that people are pushing. And you gotta kinda go through and sort through like how you feel about it before you just make it like a decision. And I think that there's oftentimes in education there is no challenging authority. So it's like, this is the lesson, this is what we're reading. These are the facts. And it's like, well, these facts don't make sense to me though. So I remember 10th grade was probably the first time where I started like questioning teachers, because it's like this whole Columbus discovered America thing. Yeah. And it was just like when I just asked, like, how can you discover something that people are. We're already like, inhabiting. The teacher was like, hella offended. And then I was like, well, nigga, you a football coach.

B (13:08)

So that's the thing. Most of them don't.

A (13:11)

Who do you really know about history? Or is it just like, I gotta teach history? Cause why are the history teachers football coaches? And then they all want to talk about football, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it'll be an odd thing where it's just like, they don't even fuck with this shit. For real. They don't like history. They just like, this is what I gotta do. This is my curriculum, my lesson plan. But, like, y' all should have seen the game Friday night, man. We went crazy. It's like. And now we in class, like, kind of. You kind of figure out how to manipulate teachers with they interest. So it's like, man, you seen the game yesterday? Because we don't want to do the work. So it's like, now we in here talking about football for 30 minutes, and they gotta remember, like, I'm a teacher, I gotta get back on track. And I was just like, oh, this education is some.

B (13:56)

Yeah, yeah.

A (13:56)

That's where it's like. It started steering me where it's like, oh, I know how to, like, confuse the teacher into, like, getting us off of work. And if they that easily, they ain't passionate about this, nor probably do they even believe this shit. So through your, like, when you get to. When you arrive to a place of, like, feeling like you're. You're engaging with, like, true education, in what ways does that change you as a young person? Like, as a younger person, like, what ways did it change you from what you had learned up until that point to, like, what you wanted to learn going forward?

B (14:32)

For me, it was one thing about education and just understanding, like, the etymology of the word education is not a matter of imposing information and making, like, putting it into someone. It's about drawing out of them what's already there. And so we understand that we come into this world with everything that we already have. We have access to everything that there is to understand or know about our reality. And so one of the things that I've always been is very inquisitive. So I always ask so many questions. I always had questions. And one of the greatest challenges against indoctrination is to ask questions. That's why they don't like that. And so for me, it was. I wanted to just understand truth. Like, I was inside of planes looking up, like, what you mean there's heaven, like what you mean? Like we going somewhere else? Or there's this or there's that. And it just never made sense. And when I was in church asking questions like, oh, there's free will, but my steps are ordered and God already has it planned out. So then what is this really about? And what is choice, truly? And then I had a very just, I call it like some called a cataclysmic event. A spiritual awakening is really what my dissertation was about in terms of me seeing things that we don't always have access to see and hearing things and being. I just know that I can't deny my experience, you know, and when I know what I know what I know what I know because it was shown to me in that way. And so the truth is within you. And for me it was just a matter of like getting to. There's no place where you arrive and you're just kind of like, I know, but it was like, like you said, tracking those origins. And so I talked a lot about like the African origins of Greek philosophy. And I cut all that out because everywhere, everywhere you go, you open a book, everything starts with the Greek. Everything's up to the Greeks. It's the Greeks this, the Greeks that, and da da, da. And it's like, no, the Greeks went to ancient Kemet and learned. That's. That's where they got their information from, that's where they got their knowledge from. And so trying to recorrect those narratives because that's what has really taken the minds of our people. Just because we really believe this. We believe that white folks and Europeans are the creators of knowledge and the creators of all things good and technology and civilization and advancement and all these types of things. But recentering that to our own people and understanding that that's who we truly are. And so I think that's just what it was for me. There's still more, I think, to always unpack and understand. There's deeper, but the deeper you go, sometimes people start to think you're being spooky. You know, you start to get into space, you start to get into the woo woo woo. But it's like, nah, like that's what it is. Just because you don't know that's what it is. That's what's going on. That's what your bible is talking to you about. It's consciousness. We're talking about energy, consciousness, frequency, vibration. That's what it is at the end of the day. So you have to deal with like Your, your atomic subatomic understanding of reality. And so really getting into. I study things like ontology and epistemology. Ontology is a science of being. Epistemology is the science of knowing. But understanding what that really means to be, to be in existence, like, what does it mean to exist? And that was a big, heavy thing for me as a young child. Like, I had having, like, existential thoughts, like, of I'm alive. Like, what does it mean to be alive? And then what does it mean to not be alive, to die? And then understanding this idea of everlasting life and living forever and then understanding that energy cannot be created nor destroyed. So what does it truly mean? Does it mean I'm going to be walking down paved streets of gold and mansions and da, da, da, da, da. Or does it mean, you know, something else in terms of, like, the, the life process of the. Or the death process of a star and all these types of things and understanding that. So I think it just opens you up and you'll start to understand. You either going to be pulled down that rabbit hole, or you can walk with confidence and say, this is the journey I'm, I'm. I'm embarking on. And it's going to be scary. It's going to be dark at times. And I think it's a matter of, like, being comfortable with our darkness and understanding that darkness is light and you can't even see light without darkness. And getting into that is the biggest thing that I want black folks to know is that there's really, truly nothing to be afraid of. We've been taught to be afraid of ourselves, and we've been taught to be afraid of the dark very literally. Like, literally be afraid of the dark. And so coming into the light, I think is important.

A (18:22)

I think the fear of education is like, this kind of discovery of the unknown, because once you know, you can't go back. So, like, for me, there's just a lot of things that I know I can never return to. Like, so I don't even think about returning. It's just like, shit, I'm so far ahead now, it's just like the path is forward. You know what I mean? A big part of my early fears, early on was about how I would be perceived. Because even my friends, that was like, in the street or like, people around me that I've never seen go to a church, never talk about God. When you start discussing it in ways of deconstructing religion, even they get religious and it's like, yeah, I ain't Never seen you in a church house. I ain't never seen you pay a tithe or offer. I ain't even ever heard you bring up Jesus. And now you offended, Like. But it's like. It's like these set of. It's a set of standard information and knowledge that we just accept. Like, okay, like. And I think it's a place of return, like, to return to if I feel like I stray too far away in the world or nine times out of 10, like, in my case, if I get in too much trouble, I can stray back to it. I. Like, I can get back to this space and I'll be all right, and I'll be redeemed and things like that. But I think more than anything, I'm curious as to how, like, along your journey, the people that you grew up with and, like, even parents, siblings, family members or friends, how did that kind of, like, play into the relationship?

B (19:57)

Did.

A (19:57)

Did you lose relationships? Did it just make things, like, a little awkward for a little bit?

B (20:01)

I think in the beginning I did. There were some folks who were like, taylor, not everybody cares about this. Like, I was very radical. I was very. Like, that's all I cared about. You know, it's like, what else is there to talk about? Like, niggas ain't free. Like, there's nothing to talk about. And so I was just.

A (20:16)

Everything was. You was fucking a vibe too. I really was. I really was. Every time. I ain't gonna lie, that 2425 Deontay was overly woke. Like. Like, it's not even. Like, it's not comfortable to be around me because I'mma either get drunk and start freestyling or we having a lecture. Or we having a lecture. Like, real rap. It's like, why are we partying? What are we celebrating?

B (20:38)

Literally, what are we celebrating?

A (20:39)

People is in bondage.

B (20:40)

Exactly. Precisely. So I'm just like, what are we even talking about right now? So that was that. And then it was me challenging. Like, I. I think when you first come into consciousness, you're angry. There's a lot of. There was a lot of anger for me because I was talking about double consciousness. We don't need no double consciousness. Like, that's. We need to transcend. We can't be looking at ourselves through the eyes of the oppressor and da da. But particularly when it came to the church and me going down that path. And I was already questioned in, like, high school, like, are you an atheist? Are you? Because I'm in, you know, private Christian school and Bible Class saying, is there even really a God? And I'm not. I'm just questioning if there is God. Not even saying that there's not, or denouncing it or anything like that. And I'm being asked these questions. So that's something I've always kind of dealt with in terms of people being like, oh, what do you believe? You know, type of thing. And it's like, belief was never something that I. I loved. Or faith. I'm like, well, I gotta have faith. Like, what is this faith thing? And so. But in terms of, like, my family relationships, my dad was agnostic, actually. So I grew up in a split household. I grew up with a Christian mother, and then I grew up with an agnostic father who's more like me in terms of, like, our philosophical thinking and things of that nature. And so I was always able to kind of, you know, ask, well, why don't dad go to church with us? You know, what's up with that? And he's like, you just don't go. You know, he'll come if we have a presentation or we singing some songs or I'm in a play or something like that. So I always kind of had this, like, there are people who believe, believe in. There's something else out there, but they're not going to say that it's Jesus Christ or this type of Christianity system. And so as I got into, like, my consciousness and my awareness, really my tensions with my mother, it was me, like, wanting to challenge and, like, wanting to show and wanted to teach. And, like, you kind of have to get out of that, like, even jelliculism in terms of, like, your consciousness.

A (22:21)

Yeah.

B (22:21)

And knowing that, like, everybody's on their own path and they're on their own time. But I think for her watching me and witnessing my growth, because I'll say I'm 1 million percent a better person not being a Christian than I was trying to be a Christian. And I think I just. I'm just a better human being. I'm more conscious, I'm more aware, I have more empathy. Like, I'm just better. And so I think that was enough for her is like, whatever she doing is like, she's on a path. And I think me going through education and then being able to see me have, you know, this progress and this success in this way is like, nah, she's really onto something. And she listens to me. When I got to meet Chris Christian a. Smith at the party, so that was dope. And I was like, yeah, like, my mom Be listening to you. You know, she be listening. So it's, she's on her path of deconstruction and things of that nature. My brother is already very, he's like, me too. And so it's been cool. And I think people respect me. They respect my, my perspective, they respect my opinion because I'm very thoughtful and they know that I, I've put a lot of time and effort and, and pain into this. There's a lot of tears, there's a lot of crying, there's a, there's a lot of work that goes on. That's what a lot of my research is about is everything that happens behind the SC birthing process, like of becoming and becoming yourself and getting in tap with your true identity and your true self and your soul's purpose and what you're really doing here. And that's tough. And it's tough to choose to one becoming aware of it. So getting that call and then answering the call and then choosing to obey that call and walk in your purpose is tough work. Especially when you're in a system that doesn't want you to actualize your full potential. And so trying to figure out how to navigate and be an ethical capitalist and try to create new systems of economics. So it's like I'm trying to do all the things but realizing, okay, you know, I could just one thing at a time and just be like really just be me. Because that's all we're here to do, is just be our true selves. And so I think through my own journey, people are, you know, they become aware of themselves in different ways and everyone's on their own path, but it's been all right, you know, and people respect what I do. And I think the scholarship definitely helps. Having them letters, as messed up as it can be, sometimes having to go to these systems and get that validation, it does help. Help.

A (24:29)

Yeah, I, I, I wouldn't agree with you there. I think that one of my biggest fears before I started was like, man, I don't got no accolades or nothing like, like this. I like, I'm like self research, I don't know what, I ain't going to university. So I used to think like, man, people ain't going to respect my opinion because I don't have accolades behind it. And I do respect people with accolades, but I also respect consistency of thought. So it's like after a while you could tell a person ain't just saying something to say it, they believe it. You know what I mean? I think the thing that people respect about me the most is, like, they. It's how consistent I am with my processes. And, like, not only just what words, but what actions as well. I want to touch on something, though, because. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about that evangelical awakening that we all go through. Because I see it online. I think that that's one of the. The stranger things. The strangest thing about being online is, like, watching others go through their awakening and they're proposing questions, and they're in places that you've already been. So it's like, how much nurturing can you do in those spaces versus feeling like you like, damn, we're in a reset. Like, and then how many of us are going to have to continue to arrive at this space? And how do we balance out those who have the information, have went through these processes, have outgrown their evangelical phase, like, because it is, like, a thing that you just go through. It's like anything with new information you want to tell everybody, you know, but how do you. How do you propose that, like, somebody who may be younger, who may be just arriving at these places, navigate their evangelical phase of trying to get everybody to be aware but not realizing that some people are aware and choose to ignore, some people don't want to be aware. And you might be better suited just continuing with your pursuit of knowledge while, like, connecting with people who also are of a similar mindset.

B (26:37)

Yeah, that's what I would say, is find people that you can talk to. And I think it's a matter of just getting comfortable in yourself and getting comfortable with what you understand and what you know. Because I'm starting to realize not everybody needs to know what I know. Not everybody. I don't gotta tell everybody everything. And so just learning how to, you know, those who have ears to hear will hear. Those who have eyes to see will see and understanding that. And that's the same thing. Even if you want to take it to the Jesus description. It's like people would have disrespected Jesus if he came today. Y' all would have laughed in this man's face. Y' all would have walked by him. Y' all wouldn't have even paid no attention to the man. So not everybody recognizes God when God's in their face. And I think you have to remember that. And I think it's just a matter of. Of, like, finding folks that you can connect with, finding folks that you can learn from and just continuing the journey, you know? And sometimes I feel that even with My own, you know, videos online. It's like I feel like I'm repeating the same stuff, we talking about the same stuff. And I'm like, I'm ready to move on, you know, But I understand that there's a foundation to be built. And so I think that's also what I'm in the process of building is like a system for folks to come through, come through this deconstruction. Okay? So our beginners, you know, and then our more advanced folks really getting into it so that there's a pipeline. Because what I've also found is you start and then if you scared, you go to church. And so you kind of turn back to what you know, because it's like, okay, it's good. I'm starting to get into the Satan stuff. And that's where everybody starts to get a little wonky because like, once you start getting into Satan and what Satan is and what the devil is, it starts to get spooky for a lot of folks. But that's really when you got to lean into it and really start to just understand like, I am, I'm good, you know, there's nothing to be afraid of. And just it's fear. It's a fear based system we've been indoctrinated into. And so we really have to understand. And what's been helpful for me is thinking about, okay, am I making this choice out of fear, right? Am I telling this person out of fear? Is this a fear based decision? It's a fear based choice and trying to call that back in because I'm realizing like, fear is really the basis for all things, anxiety, depress all the things. It's fear and it's so deeply instilled into us because we're afraid of dying, but we're also afraid of living. And so it's really like what's really going on here and just really addressing fear is I think what's holding us back in general.

A (28:45)

And yeah, I agree with that. I think the devil thing. So for me, there's always been like, like a healthy doubt of any of these things. So when I started like deconstructing God, religion, Jesus and coming to my own understanding, like, I never even considered the devil because it's like, nigga, I don't believe in a boogeyman. Like, you know, I would think about what they say the devil is and then where do I see that in the world? So like this why I be going so hard at white people? Because it's like everything they told me the Devil was. That's the shit y' all be doing. So it's like the steal, kill, destroy. Like, y' all have a history of doing that. So I kind of gotta like, start like, annotating these behaviors to the physical world that I see around me, while also, like, doing maintenance on myself. Because even outside of. Of the information and things that I'm pursuit of, I still have to be able to identify who I am too. And that goes with, like, going through your upbringing and, you know, some of my shortcomings too. So, like, I think as much information as I possess and as much like, knowledge and research that I still pursue, I've come to this space where it's like, more important to be centered within myself too, because it's not as an effective if I don't have a healthy understanding of self. And I. So I see, like in the notes you put Dr. Anthony Browder, which was a big part of my, like, knowledge of commit Kemet and things like that, but also, like, how I kind of arrived at, you know, like one of the first universities in the world being in Timbuktu and how people would make pilgrimages to these universities. And they also existed in, you know, Mediterranean, like, places like what they would call the Middle east and Kemet and things like this. Like, wow, this is interesting, right? So, like, why do it always begin at slavery, right? It begins at indoctrination for us in the West. And then it's like the further you go back, a lot of people get caught up in like, the we was kings thing. But I don't. I don't necessarily care about things like that because everybody can't be a king. So I'm not, like, concerned with that. I'm concerned with the fact that society runs off of, like, a multitude of occupations, right? So you need doctors, you need lawyers, you need educators, you need, you know, architects, you need all of these different components. And these are like, well educated people who were very seated in who they were and understood a history of like, like, greatness that not only they descend from, but they're actively participating in. And then these things are stripped away from you. This knowledge is stripped away from you. And even if this is like the tribe you descended from might not be a part of, like, these dynasties, but Africa has a history of, like, rich culture all over the continent. Which is why I think that they split it in this way of like, Middle east, so that we can, like, get more Arabic people, like, away from, like, separate them from Africa and then just make Africa about being Black. And then, oh, if you Middle east, you're brown. And then the further you go up, the wider you get, the further the. The more you go east, the yellower you get. It's just like, okay, well, who's making these rules up? Who's drawing the lines? Who's creating the borders? And then when you arrive at those places, I would say that, like, it does radicalize you. Like, we talk about this all the time. Like, how Hidden Colors was like, whoa.

B (32:31)

Yeah, so many people hate it, though. So. So many people hate it for some reason, bro.

A (32:36)

I mean, I think the first one is, like, the one. You know what I mean? After that, once you start getting more into, like, Tariq Nasheed's ideologies and theories, it's like, all right, I'm out. You know what I'm saying? Like, once start talking about Yakub, and it's like, all right, you know. You know, I think that we can explain white people a little better than, like, being made in a lab. You know what I'm saying? Because also, like, you can destroy what you create, but this. The idea of them being, like, a genetic mutation over history. History. That make a lot of sense to me because you can recognize that in the physical in so many different things. Right. So what role did, like, Dr. Anthony Browder play to you to play in your discovery and experience? Because he has the comedic calendar.

B (33:21)

Oh, I got the whole joint. I had it.

A (33:24)

Yeah.

B (33:24)

I went on the Egypt of the Potomac.

A (33:26)

I knew you had it.

B (33:27)

I was gonna bring it. Shoot. But I have it. And I went on the Egypt on the Potomac tour. It wasn't led by him. It was led by his daughter at the time that I did it. But he's doing his last one this summer, this year. And so for me, it was a matter of. And I wanted to address something, too. You mentioned not having accolades and this and that and da, da, da. And my dissertation was a self study. I did an autoethnography because of Kemetic culture and their understanding of know thyself, which we attribute to the Greeks. And so that's all that matters.

A (33:57)

I don't attribute shit to Greeks.

B (33:59)

I know.

A (34:00)

Hold on. We're gonna take a quick pause. Fergus, the AC is pumping in this, brother.

B (34:07)

That was my per my request. I was burning when I got in here. I was sweating.

A (34:12)

Golly. I was like, no. I was like, who's hot?

B (34:15)

I was. I was sweating. Ye.

A (34:17)

Yeah, bro. I was like, God damn this. This shit. Making me feel like I want to go inside of my Damn hoodie.

B (34:23)

I feel like looking at, bro.

A (34:24)

I'm like, I know he cold.

B (34:26)

I feel great.

A (34:27)

I'm looking at him like, well, he got on short sleeves, and he ain't complaining, so why. Nah, fuck that.

B (34:32)

All right, all right.

A (34:34)

Thicker shirt.

B (34:37)

No, but I was going to say, in terms of the main differences with ancient Kemet, and what we understand now is that their civilization was strictly spiritual. It was all grounded in spirituality. Now we have all these materialistic people coming in and raping and pillaging and da, da, da, da, Right. But I think in terms of Dr. Anthony Browder, what it helped me understand was our relationship. Why did this matter to us now as black Americans? And when you start to understand the similarities of. I grew up right outside of Washington, D.C. 30 minutes outside of D.C. you start to understand how we already know the Masonic layout and who designed it and da, da, da, da. What's happening on 13th street and all those things. But you really saw. Start to see what. We literally stole the crest that we've tried to replicate. Even the colors red, white, and blue came from the red, white, blue, and gold depictions on the stone walls. And so all of the similarities, like us, all we've been trying to do is replicate it. You see it with the masons. They have the same aprons that our ancient ancestors were using. So you see all of the similarities. And even in my. Yep, all of it. We have obelisk all over the place. So, like, what. Why do we have African structures on our land and we don't respect African people? And one of the things I used to do with my students when I taught at UNLV was talk our value system in our nation. And I would show the dollar, and I would ask them, why do we have African structures? What is this about? You know, what is this eye? What is this pyramid? What is it? You know, and understanding all of that and getting. And getting them comfortable asking those questions.

A (36:02)

Yo, when you start. Look, the first. I think that's where it starts. First of all. First of all, for whatever reason, you don't start discovering this till the sun goes. You know what I'm saying? So you on YouTube, latest shit. Like, you're in a lot of background. You know what I'm. You in spaces where niggas got 35 subscribers with the video three hours long. You, like, all in six, eight. You know what I'm saying? Like, this is OG YouTube. Like OG YouTube.

B (36:31)

We were just saying YouTube is not.

A (36:32)

The same OG YouTube. First of all, you can't even find those videos no more.

B (36:36)

That's what we were just saying.

A (36:38)

And I hate it because, like, a part of me understands that this is part of my education. And I want to go back and, like, look at it from a fresh perspective. And you can't, because they got rid of all that shit. Like, there was this one, like, I think this one. Dude. Osiris333. Like, you were, bro. Listen, dawg. Cause I was like. Cause, like, bro was having all the videos he was having. And like, you said, like, sometimes joints be, like, six hours. So it's like, okay, tonight I'm tapping in and I'm a stop. Like, two hours in, and then it's like, four in the morning.

B (37:12)

Yeah.

A (37:12)

And they start going through, like, the dollar when n get in the dollar and the symbolism. And then they start showing you, like, hidden shit on there. You be like, oh, man, somebody gotta have a camera on me right now. Somebody. Somebody's looking at me. You know what I'm saying? But I think it's just a fear. Like, your brain is naturally trying to protect itself. And oftentimes, like, we want to protect ourselves from information because what it's doing is rewiring and creating new neuropathies, ways. And it's like. It's scary.

B (37:40)

You know what I'm saying? It's very scary. That's what I. That's the biggest thing for me, that I want to protect people going down that journey. Because when you start to get into that pipeline, it can go so many different ways. You see, people end up just debilitated, and they don't know how to move because it's so, like, overwhelming for them. Like, the system is like, I can't do this. I can't do that. I don't want to participate. And then they end up doing nothing. They end up frozen. And so it's like, okay, how do you take this knowledge and then integrate it into your life and embed it? And I've also had personal experiences. My dissertation was about my journey, actually, with psychosis. And so really understanding that protection with your brain and what it does and how. Yeah, like, I saw stuff, you know, and it was through that journey of me coming into my own understanding and, like, just the. I call it a consciousness clash because I had themes of Christianity trying to sneak in. But then I had, like, all this new stuff, and it was just like a brain explosion.

A (38:32)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I. I, too, experience the same thing. That's why I want to kind of discuss it. Like, my experience with psychosis came in the form of, like, voices, and to the point where you can't ignore it.

B (38:48)

You can't.

A (38:49)

And then it's like you communicating with these voices, too. And then it's like, oh, I can't even be in the house because I don't want anybody in this house to think I'm crazy. But I know that I'm having a conversation with somebody who's not present, and so let me go outside. And then. And after a while, it's like this other motherfucker come along. Like, yeah, I want to jump in this combo, too. It's like, hold on. I can't talk to two niggas. I need help. You know what I'm saying? Like, my brain is breaking. I know that's what's happening, too, because one is coming with a form of information that I'm discovering, and it feels like kind of a God. And then there's this other thing of, like, actually, all this shit he's saying is bullshit, and you need to go back to this. And it's like, oh, oh, I'm losing my mind.

B (39:34)

Yeah.

A (39:34)

And I started to talk to my. I started like, you can't have these conversations with friends because they think you're crazy. You know what I'm saying? Like, they do. And it's like, okay, who do I discuss this with? Right? And I think the only person that I could discuss it with was Deanna, who's my kid's mom. And I would say, like, the most beautiful thing about it is that she never judged me, even if she didn't understand it. She was like, you're smart. You're abnormally smart compared to your peers. And so with you stepping away from the information that's been kind of keeping you stuck, you're gonna go through, like, a period where you're gonna feel crazy. And she was like, I don't think you're losing your mind. I think you like gaining a new perspective. And she was like, but at the same time, there is something to be said about, like, talking to people that ain't there. I wouldn't tell nobody else that.

B (40:29)

You know what I'm saying?

A (40:30)

She was like, I've had my own situations of. We'll donate it all to the spiritual, right? And I was fine with it being a spiritual thing, but as I got older, it was just like, oh, this information is literally wrecking my brain. It's clashing with previous core beliefs that are like. Like, breaking down in my mind. And it's like, you know, audibly, because so I was looking at this, I like the stem tik tok a lot. If you can get your STEM algorithm right, it'll bring you all the information you be looking for. So, like, I just skip everything I'm not interested in. And a lot of it will turn to psychology, sociology, and spirituality. And I, like, that's where all my live at. And so they was talking about how. How when people hear voices outside of themselves, because it sounds, like, so audibly outside of yourself that you believe it's outside, but it's really just your brain just creating those voices as, like, forms of communication with you. Like, I can't. If I keep. If I talk, it's like a way of, like, the brain saying, like, I can't bring this to you in your voice because you won't pay attention to it. You'll pass it off as a thought. But this is, like, literally, like, core information I need you to know. And this is new information. So I had to introduce it in a different voice. And this is where people, like, hear that voice of God. But, like, there's been studies that show, like, no, this is literally just you. But it's like. And you don't know, like, think about how many fucking voices you've heard in your life. How many different accents, how many different dialects, how many different languages. And it's like, just pick one that ain't him.

B (42:07)

Yeah.

A (42:08)

And then we just gonna have this conversation. So it's really just me conversing with myself and, like, going through this information and, like, trying to break down this information and make it make sense. Sense. But I think that if the people who are controlling us and putting us in bondage, not only physically, but, like, mentally as well, they also have the understanding that the brain does these things. Now, we could just say this schizophrenic. You know what I'm saying? You're bipolar. You're these things. And why is it that these people always have, like, some deeper understanding of the world that's going on around them?

B (42:43)

And that was my biggest thing. I'm like, I want to talk to everybody who. Talking to people, because I want to know what we're seeing, what we're doing. And one, I want to affirm you and your gift, and thank you for sharing that, because I do think it's incredible that we've been able to experience things like this, and we come back from it, because not everybody comes back from it. And so for me, my experience was similar in a way where I had very auditory and visual hallucinations. And I actually showed up to class naked. So in my mind, it was actually Easter of 2017. So it started Good Friday, and by Easter Monday, I literally am running into my classroom, like, derobing. And so that professor, Dr. Dick, was the professor of the day, and we had a presentation. And actually, my presentation, we was going to be talking about Zionism. We was going to be talking about a lot of stuff I was about to present on. But in my mind, I was in a different place. And it was like Judgment Day. My heart had to be as light as a feather. I was getting ready to go somewhere, but I wasn't prepared to go. I kept saying, I'm not going. I'm not going. I have work to do, work to do. I have to stay. I have work to do. And I was, like, fighting to stay. And there was, like, a dark energy, and I just was like, I have to stay, I have to stay, I have to stay. And so I stayed, and I ended up hospitalized. The police came, but my classmates and my professor protected me, so the police didn't take me. And so I'm very grateful for that because I wasn't, you know, I wouldn't. White people couldn't talk to me or look at me. So if you were talking to me, I would make you look to the ground or. My mom said I was kicking him out the hospital room left and right. But it was like, I would talk to, like, my professor, my classmates, the police talking to me stone cold. Like, I wouldn't say nothing. I wouldn't talk to him. White people could not talk to me. There was two white people. I said, I know you. I remember in the Paramount, I said, I know you. And, like, they were good. So I kind of knew who was, like, good and who was evil and all these types of things. And it was an incredible experience. But at the same time, it was scary. And there's. My previous partner was there for everything and hearing. I heard the story for the first time from their perspective. Literally, really recently, like a week ago. This was seven years, eight years ago. And I'm like, whoa. So it didn't just happen to me. It really happened. And, like, you experience this and you understand what that was. But for me, I kept going back and forth around like, okay, was this spiritual? Is this something wrong? Right? So when I got to the hospital, they did give me antipsychotics, sedated me, all this type of stuff. My family drove down and met me four hours away. And I just remember still pointing at stuff. By the time my dad came to, you know, everyone's in the hospital. I'm still seeing stuff, but they gave me the antipsychotics, and I stayed on the antipsychotics for about three, three weeks, and then I graduated. This is around the time of me graduating with my undergraduate degree from A and T. And so I go to my graduation, but during graduation, like, my lips are all tingly. I'm starting to feel weird. I'm like, something's up. But I'm like, okay, I tried a new chapstick today. Maybe it's an allergic reaction to this chapstick. And so then I go to, like, the psychiatrist, say, hey, my lips are tingly. I'm feeling kind of weird. They're like, well, maybe it's just, you know, it's nothing. Da, da, da. Weeks later, I'm red as a lobster. I'm just starting to get really sick, really weak. My skin is just, like, really raw. So we go to the doctor. They're talking about, you got scarlet fever. You got all this type of random misdiagnoses. And so at that point, we're like, no, I'm just getting progressively worse every single day. We're going to the doctors and my partner at the time literally Google some stuff like they tell you not to do. And it's like, nah, she has this. And they was like, actually, they ran my liver labs and everything. They said, yes, she does. She's an acute liver failure. Da, da, da da. And they rushed me to the hospital, and I was put on steroids. So I ended up having a rare drug allergic reaction to the antipsychotics that I was given. And so that's where my research also talks about, like, the misdiagnoses, understanding, spirituality versus mental health, and then this whole complex with medicine and all the things. Right. And so I've never been on medication since then. The steroids obviously helped save my life, and I'm grateful for it. But it's been a process of trying to really break that down and really understand it. Because even when you asked earlier, like, what does that journey been? Like, I'm constantly asking myself, what if I'm wrong? Like, what if. What if I'm tripping? What if this is all bullshit? Like, I'm constantly doing that to myself. And I think you have to do that to yourself to really be grounded in your belief. Or. And for me, it's. I'm beyond belief at this point now. I'm dealing with gnosis, knowledge and understanding and wisdom. Yeah. And so I don't believe in.

A (46:54)

I've been in that phase. That phase, like, damn, maybe I'm tripping.

B (46:58)

Yes, I do it all the time.

A (46:59)

But yeah, still, like, maybe I'm, maybe I'm looking at this from the wrong perspective. You know what? I'm gonna say this, I'm gonna say the thing that like, actually allowed me to see, step into like, my, like, full confidence in what information I have and what I'm presenting is like, how much smarter can the smartest person be?

B (47:23)

Yeah.

A (47:24)

How much smarter can they be?

B (47:25)

Yeah.

A (47:26)

You know what I mean? Like, and then you get into the space of like, oh, well, like there's different types of sexualities, there's different type of paths of thought. There has to be different types of intelligence. And then I go through this phase and like, so we're gauging, you know, this whole Einstein judging a fish off ability to climb a tree thing. Oh, I don't need to be smart in the way that these people are smart. This is my form of intelligence. This what I align with. I'm a lock the fuck in because, like, this is what I'm attracted to. Like, this is what I naturally am progressing to and also like excelling in. You know what I mean? Like, when I'm engaged with this form of intelligence. Intelligence. I'm progressing and I'm like excelling in this. And I feel very good about myself. This is my lane.

B (48:12)

Yeah.

A (48:12)

And if that's not your lane, like, like, so now we don't even like give people a spectrum of intelligence to operate in. So they feel like if they're not hitting on this, like, basically memory based intelligence which is just regurgitating information, very standardized, very like, I'm presenting these as facts. These are the facts. Facts. What is your ability to regurgitate the facts to me? And now you're smart.

B (48:38)

Yes.

A (48:38)

And it's like, well, I think all that's. So where do I land here? And it's like, I think it's very, it's very like calculated. Because there has to be some understanding that like African people, black people do not engage in intelligence the same way white people do. Right. So there's a, like a system of control there that they understand. They understand how to control their people. Right. What they're constantly seeking to do is figure out how to control others.

B (49:09)

And I'd say that they know how to control us because they created us to be the way that we are right now, like through the social programming. But also in terms of intelligence, you're incredibly correct. And it's making me think of Dr. Asa Hilliard III, who's no longer here, but he also does a lot of work on ancient Kemet and things of that nature. But he also also was a part of the court case to get IQ testing outlawed for black students in California. And so understanding how harmful those systems of is what it means to be smart in grades and this and that and all these types of measurements that we have. And so educational psychology is rooted in assessment and measurement and da, da, da. And I'm like, nah, like that's not how you understand what intelligence is. And we're now we're in this whole replication of AI and all this type of stuff. But even just staying here for a second with intelligence because it's our DNA, like it's encoded. So when you talk about we all have a role, we all have a position, we all have gifts, we all have talent and you could think about ourselves like superheroes. We have powers. So what are your powers? Do you even know what your powers are? Do you know what you're capable of doing? And so really understanding what that means for us and because a lot of the things that we say are pseudo science. No, our people were doing that. We were telepathic. We do have the capacity for telekinesis and all these types of things, but we act like it's not.

A (50:25)

Well, I think that's very apparent because there's been a lot of times if you, have you ever sat in silence with somebody and then be like, start singing a song. And they like, yo, yeah, where did you hear that song? It's like, yo. It just came to my head. I was like, I'm literally singing this in my head. Or like you think about somebody, then they call you or all these different things. There are obviously like other outside of like physical dimensions, things that are happening amongst us all the time. Energy, we talk, we call it energy, we call it vibes. Like, you know, the vibes is all off in here. Nah, somebody in this got ill intentions and they're emitting that out. And if your energy is sensitive enough to pick up on it, you can avoid danger in a real way. You know what I'm saying? Because like your senses have to be operate outside of your physical in order for you to operate in this world. And then like sound vibrations are a very real thing. Certain sounds make certain patterns. And you know, once you start getting into all these different things, like it just opens up your world. But I think that the most important part. Cuz I want to circle back to something real quick. But the Most important part to me is, like, what they teach you is, like, the basics. Who, what, when, where, and why. Like, how to ask questions, who and sometimes how. So, so then, like, I think the biggest thing with adults is adults don't say why ever. We donate it to, like, a childish way of thinking. But this is how children literally continually gain information, is by asking why. And I think it's the most powerful thing you can do is just ask why. And then, then you get into the who's and the whats, and then you get into the wares. And then, like, you'll be fulfilled in things. Because it's like, that was literally all it took for me to understand. Like, oh, I can be confident in, like, how I think is, are there different forms of intelligence?

B (52:13)

Yeah.

A (52:14)

And then you go, and there's like, studied, and it's like eight different forms of intelligence. Like, oh, so I've been judging myself off of this. That ain't even my, this is not even my ability. I want to go back to, like, because it seems like your situation was a lot more severe and public. How did it take you a long time to, like, kind of, like, rebuild some type of, like, confidence within yourself? Because I, I, I, I can imagine, I assume that, like, the naturopath is embarrassment.

B (52:44)

I, I didn't feel, I didn't feel embarrassed. And I think it's because I was grateful. And I can't speak for what every person in that classroom felt about me or their perceptions of me or anything like that, but the stories that I hear back was that they truly were concerned. Like I said, they, they seem to respect me from the perspective of my professor. And so I think it was more concern for me and because it was such a real experience for me. And it's the same thing with my family. Everyone's like, hey, you, you okay? I'm like, I'm great. I feel, you know, and it wasn't like this, like, mania. I feel great. But it, no, I actually feel very good.

A (53:22)

So the reason why I asked this, because I didn't, I didn't sense any embarrassment.

B (53:27)

Yeah.

A (53:29)

If you, if you would have done that under the guise that you were on ayahuasca or psilocybin, this would be a spiritual revelation. Yeah, but, but all of these chemicals that we would ingest already put, we possess, like, they're already in our mind.

B (53:48)

And I will say the comfortability has come with speaking about it, you know, and, and what it was, was on my path of, like, trying to figure out what I want to Be. And what I want to do, I'm like, I am a researcher, apparently, you know, and it's like, this is what I want to talk about. What happened to me in terms of how I was indoctrinated and miseducated and what that did to me psychologically and emotionally and spiritually. And then what it looked like for me to come out on the other side and heal and integrate this into my life. And I want to help other people because I know I'm not the only person that this has happened to.

A (54:16)

Absolutely.

B (54:16)

And I want to protect others from having that type of experience or just to understand the destigma of it, because it's. I'm cool. You know what I'm saying? And.

A (54:26)

But that's what. That's what. That's completely my point, though. If. If you had have done that ceremoniously, then everybody would have been like, this was a trip. Because, like, people smoke dmt, but that chemical is already, like, a part of your genetic makeup. It's. It's already in there. So I think that there may be some things that, like, with new information rapidly clashing with old information, truth clashing with falsehood, poking holes in these things. It may just activate a chemical in our brain that creates, like, this experience that we have that is outside of ourselves or teaching us or trying to protect us. One of the two. Right. I felt very learned about, like, what I was going through. So when I experienced it again, it did not bother me.

B (55:18)

Okay.

A (55:19)

I experienced it once again when I was in my truck. And it's just auditory.

B (55:23)

Yeah.

A (55:23)

You know, hallucination and all of the. Every time that I experience these things, it's, like, very encouraging, though. It's never telling me, like, to harm myself, to harm anybody else. It's like, kind of like reinforcing, like, hey, you got a mission.

B (55:37)

Yeah, that's what mine was. Very mission driven oriented.

A (55:42)

Don't forget. Like, don't get. What it really was is like, don't get comfortable in this truck, bro. This ain't it. Like, we ain't stopping in this truck.

B (55:48)

Yeah.

A (55:48)

You got a mission. We have information to spread. Yes. That's what get on your.

B (55:52)

And I knew who else had a mission.

A (55:54)

Yeah. And. And what was odd about it is, like, I don't be freaking out about that. I was like, oh, that's. These is back, bro. You know, these is back, bro. Like, damn, why won't y' all just leave me the fuck alone?

B (56:08)

That's what I'm.

A (56:08)

Cause I was trying. Because I woke up by my sleep with. And I was like, bro, I'm not doing this. I got to do tomorrow. Like, go. Give me what? Give me what you came to give me so I can go back to bed, bro. Like, I'm not doing this with you all night. And then sometimes it would be like this thing of, like, it's hard to discuss because I understand what the, like, stigma behind it is, but I also understand that, like, you can't stigmatize me once. You already fought with my campaign. So, like, if you want the information that I'm spreading, you got to also understand that these are processing processes that I've been through. And I'm. Because I'm not scared. It doesn't affect me in the same way as somebody who would, like, yeah, they're putting all their fear into this thing. And it's a regressive thing because your mind can't unknow things. You know what I'm saying?

B (56:53)

You can't.

A (56:54)

Unknown. I can't. Like, even where I'm at now, we talk about this all the time. Like, I can't become, like, not famous. I can become infamous, but I can't go back to nobody knowing who I am. I just can't do that. So keep going forward. Like, obviously it's in alignment with the mission. Right. And for people who are, like, living in a space of fear, I think that, like, the fear is always about perception and not knowing. But, like, the pursuit is to know what you don't know. So it's like, you just gotta go, you know what I'm saying? Or like you said, you scared. You go to church and, like, stay in that place of comfort. But. But like, also understanding that place of comfortable. You can't make me uncomfortable.

B (57:37)

Yeah, yeah. Because you know what? You know what? You know. And the thing with your experience, too, I've been. When you asked me about the comfortability, it's been in terms of wanting to go back to that place or having the space to go back to that place because you don't really know where it might take you. And we have to still survive in our physical reality. We still have physical responsibilities. So it's like, what does it really mean to be at your height spiritually? You know, to really be free and to really allow yourself to see and be and do and to live the mystic experience, you know, because that's what our ancient folks were doing. They were tapping into that. Yeah.

A (58:11)

But they also weren't, like, working for 12 hours.

B (58:14)

That's what I'm Saying yeah, you know.

A (58:16)

Like, you know they weren't like driving forklifts for like mega billionaire corporations that like only pay you enough to like put food in your mouth maybe twice a week.

B (58:26)

Yeah.

A (58:28)

How does this clash with your politics? Right. So like I, I can understand that like for whatever reason progressive people 10 are going to lean towards being democratic and like I'm not either red and blue. Right. This is what, this is why I'm asking you because like I don't with none of that but I understand like I always have to operate from this space of like I'm hoping holding hands with people. So because this is a system, you understand, I can talk to you in terms of this system but I still don't trust this system. I don't believe in it. And I think that it's all. And I think that they're going to get better and better about presenting people who relate to us.

B (59:14)

Yes. Because it's an illusion of inclusion. It's this idea of you're going to have some sort of decision making power. And I'm not interested in any of that. I'm not interested in receiving anything that you have to give me. I am interested in solving sovereignty. I'm interested in us being self governing, us being in control of our own faculties. So I don't care who the president is. That does not matter to me. I'm not interested in that. And I think we really have to get back to understanding that because now we're back into the reform and we just want change. Change the system. We don't need to be concerned with.

A (59:44)

That system quite actually like we. So the thing is like Earth has already provided us with everything we need precise. But also. So this system has made up obsessed with materials and we live in a confine of convenience. Right. So because I can just call somebody and get something or better yet just type it in my phone and it can be delivered to me it actually makes this thing of hard work unappealing. Right. Like I don't want to farm. I think in theory everybody talks about like in theory everybody talks about this shit in a way of like it's something they aspire to. Right. But like you also are not a farmer and a fashion icon.

B (60:34)

Yeah, yeah. And not everyone's a farmer period.

A (60:37)

That too. But I'm just saying they don't simultaneously exist.

B (60:41)

Yeah.

A (60:42)

Because the process of like tending to horses and chickens and pigs and tilling land and like agriculture literally has to be your life because it doesn't stop. So maybe you know, because even in the, in the. When harvest is over, you preparing for the cold season because there are cold crops that you can like it. It's a, it's a lifestyle.

B (61:03)

Yeah.

A (61:04)

And I think that because of our obsession with materials, we want a way to have like some self sustaining ability while also having worldly lifestyles. Right. Like I want to be, I want to be a, a farming influencer.

B (61:23)

Yeah, Yeah.

A (61:24)

I want to be an equestrian, but an influencer, like, you know what I'm saying? I want to be the flyest on a horse. And it's like. But yeah, the process and the money and the like the things that you have to do to not only buy a horse but to try to. It is. This is not like some easy entry point and I be wanting to like really think about the things that they want in life. And the, the thing is what you're trying to do is figure out instead of figuring out your form of intelligence and instead of figuring out your mission is what is my aesthetic that's going to make me money.

B (62:00)

Yes. And that, that's the God of this world, Satan. Material, material possessions, material things and money. And when we start to understand when you lean into your mission, you lean into your purpose. That's what they say. You will have everything that you need. You know, but we get caught up in the other st and we don't really pour into the parts of ourselves that we need to in order to actualize the things that we say that we want. And so I do think, you know, media and all the things plays a role into that because we only, and we talk about this all the time with entertainment and sports. We only see ourselves doing well in certain lanes. We don't really know what it looks like in other capacities, especially when it comes to agriculture or even technology. We're starting to see black STEM and all this stuff on the rise. But that's still sexy. Like tech, you know, it's sexy, sexy.

A (62:42)

And it's also like, It's not collaborative. That's like my biggest thing is that there's no collaboration. Like if you are in agriculture and I'm in stem, we should be working together. We don't live in separate worlds. We live in a ecosystem of occupation.

B (63:06)

Yes.

A (63:06)

You know what I'm saying? So like, like one of the first viral videos that I had outside of criticism, capitalism was about how everything is literally free. So like even the idea to create is free. Nobody charged you. You, you can't go to an idea bank. You know what I mean? You, you don't like food is free, it grows out of the earth. The thing that we've gotten caught up in is paying for labor.

B (63:28)

Yes.

A (63:29)

And so the, so the thing is, is like then who put, how do you place a proper value on the labor? Right.

B (63:36)

That's the thing is money is the middleman and we don't really need it.

A (63:41)

You don't really need anything like, because the thing is, is like if you enjoy making clothes and I enjoy making bread and you enjoy like you're just like culinary at its heart. You could know how to butcher an animal, you know how to plant these crops. Like we quite literally have a micro society.

B (63:58)

Yeah.

A (63:59)

Who, who has an understanding of engineering, who has an understanding of agriculture, architecture. All of these understandings, gifts, these things that we're magnetic about, like these, like, I feel drawn to this. Who's the orator, who's the teacher, who's like, some of these gifts aren't physical. Some of these gifts are just purely mental gifts. And you have an understanding like what people tell me all the time, you know, how to take these big concepts and break them down to make them understandable to me, not only in how you like convey them to me, but the language and, and it's. So there's a thing of like people who naturally just have this like they're drawn to child care.

B (64:37)

Yeah.

A (64:38)

All of these things are possessed for a reason because these things are equitable to like a, a self sustaining society that we use money to segregate ourselves from. So like the person that will improve your tractor, you don't have to charge them for the id that helps you improve detractor what you do, what. The reason why you do have to charge them or they have to charge you is because that's the fucking world we live in where they would have done it for free. Yeah, I was talking about all this shit for free.

B (65:08)

Yeah.

A (65:08)

You know what I'm saying? The things that you went and pursued to study, you didn't get paid to go to college, you had to pay, you know what I'm saying? Like the person that wants to be a doctor, truly, you know what I'm saying? The idea behind diagnosing and healing people is, is something that they was going to do anyway. All of this shit is free.

B (65:27)

Yeah.

A (65:28)

Literally every idea, every skill set, everything. When you perfect your craft, nobody's paying you to perfect it. You have to literally pursue something out of pure passion before you ever make a dollar at it. And just like any profession, you have to have all of the knowledge. Nobody's paying you to gain that knowledge. You have to do it out of pursuit of passion. Passion. So the money thing is literally like the control that keeps us separated from operating in micro societies outside of this major empire where they control all the money they get. They control all the money. They control how much you make, but they also control, like, how much information you have. It's like a system of control through money. And when I tell people stop going to work for 30 days, it's like, like, well, but I don't have any. What if I don't have the money? It's like, no, no. We're trying to collapse the system. The system is dependent on your labor.

B (66:25)

And it won't even take 30. I say give it a week. If everyone just didn't go for a.

A (66:29)

Week, just stop going to work. First of all, Ferg is not out of a job, because Ferg loves what he does, so he would do it for free. I'm still gonna be on the phone propped up, talking my shit. You know what I'm saying? Saying anybody that does anything that they're passionate about is not going to lose out on anything. You're not passionate about driving forklifts. I promise you. You not.

B (66:52)

I've said that. I was like, we don't really need to be doing half of the things that we're doing.

A (66:56)

This is involuntary. Like, because who wants to wake up at four in the morning to sit in traffic for an hour? Who.

B (67:02)

And even just the workday in general, because then it goes to who's raising your kids because you gotta be at work. And it's just the whole system in and of itself.

A (67:09)

How many people wouldn't have. Have kids?

B (67:11)

Talk about it. I don't.

A (67:13)

But no, but, no, no, but honestly. But honestly, without the system reinforcing it. Because the only way to catapult you into a system of labor is for you to have a child.

B (67:22)

Yep.

A (67:23)

Because when you have a child, what's the first thing you think? I got to take care of the child? Now you take any job you can get. So they. So they've hacked the biological instinct to reproduce into forcing you into labor. These niggas are sick.

B (67:37)

Yeah.

A (67:37)

Okay. And like, when I talk about, like, when I said everything was free, it's like, well, the labor is not free. Yes, it is. Yes, it is.

B (67:47)

It's really the exchange of good and service.

A (67:49)

You don't. You clean your. You clean your own house for free.

B (67:52)

Yes.

A (67:53)

Because of the. What you want the presentation to be and how it affects you psychologically. So if you don't have enough money, do you not clean your house?

B (68:00)

Some people don't because of depression and other reasons.

A (68:03)

Exactly. Because they don't understand the, the psychological effects of clutter.

B (68:07)

Yeah.

A (68:08)

You know what I'm saying? So I think the thing is, is like there is literally nothing to charge for. We just don't know a system outside of. Because honestly, this information, if I don't have bills, if, if none of these other things exist, but all of this technology exists, we would, this would literally just be a free production of thought. And it's going to help people expand their mind and perspective. Perspective around thought and around society as a whole. I don't have to charge because people will like just to get your camera settings right. Because they have the information, they charge for it. Because everything is transactional. And in a transactional society, nothing is sacred.

B (68:49)

Yeah. And that, that's the biggest thing for me is like, especially when you're a knowledge producer, it's like, okay, I am the commodity. Like it is my mind, it's my thoughts, but I'm not. And I can't commodify myself and I'm not for sale. And so what does that look like? How do I create a sustain model for myself where I don't feel like I'm being bought and sold and exchanged in this way? And so really trying to figure out what this looks like and how to create systems. So I did start the lab, which is a black woman scholars peer support network in a think tank. And I have over 400 women signed up across three continents what that looks like over time. I'm really excited to see in terms of like how we can organize ourselves. And because I got, we got lawyers, we got doctors, we got women across all types of.

A (69:29)

Because the industries, like everybody, everybody wants out.

B (69:32)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, okay, how can we build for real?

A (69:36)

But the, the thing about wanting out is like, who. Okay, if we was all in this room and was like, none of us is going to work tomorrow, somebody gonna be like, I don't know, I kind of gotta go to work. And because everybody's not gonna participate. Nobody will participate.

B (69:53)

That's the part.

A (69:54)

So everybody that's gonna stay home is scared of the people who still are gonna go to work.

B (69:59)

But we also don't need everybody body.

A (70:01)

That's another thing too. Now that's so. So because what is the, what is the House rule? You know what I'm saying? What's the rule in Congress? It's majority vote.

B (70:09)

Yeah. Yeah.

A (70:10)

So honestly, 51 changes everything. Right. But honestly, a 30 shifts, everything. But I don't think that people understand the significant role that they play. Creatives are going to create. Right. So what we're talking about is physical labor towards production.

B (70:28)

Yeah.

A (70:28)

Production that props up the system in society due to, like, the needs and wants of mega corporations that give us everything in search of convenience. So I don't really care about packing boxes.

B (70:44)

Yeah, right. Yeah.

A (70:45)

But who are the people that do the lowest level jobs? They're all black and brown people.

B (70:51)

And they're finding that the technology is having more difficulty doing those types of jobs. Jobs than it is doing the office desk jobs and these types.

A (70:59)

Yeah. Because the. The jobs where you do the cubicles. All numbers. That's what a computer is.

B (71:03)

And that's the real word. And that's the real word. Yeah, yeah.

A (71:06)

Like if. If. Okay, so, so great. So have one supercomputer do the job of an entire building and turn that building into affordable housing. That. But then it's like, well, how are we gonna make money?

B (71:19)

Because they're not interested in. We don't need money. Yeah.

A (71:22)

Okay. Literally take the ones and zeros and put a million dollars in everybody's bank account tomorrow. What the is it going to change? It's not real.

B (71:29)

It's only going to boost the economy.

A (71:32)

What do you think niggas gonna do to a million dollars? Not spend it.

B (71:34)

Well, that's the reason why I'm not like, gung ho about reparations in that regard only simply because I don't think we have the mental fortitude or training to understand what really to do with that money. And it's only going to go right back into their system. We gonna get that million, we gonna get that whatever, and we're gonna put it right back to them.

A (71:49)

Yo, I sometimes I don't discuss everything with Big Cat because I know he's gonna be like, God damn, bro. So today I was saying that, like, I was saying, like, instead of putting diamonds in your teeth, why don't you just go donate the money to a food bank? Now, people don't see the value in that because, like, well, the community. Community never did for me. But the community that you are propping up, like, how rich is John Johnny Dang.

B (72:15)

Literally.

A (72:16)

And how rich will his grandkids be? So you do care about taking care of the community, just not the one that look like you. Because you don't see the benefit in building up you, like, what's already built.

B (72:26)

Yeah, yeah, that's Everybody, they want to get in when the boat's already built.

A (72:29)

But also too, it's like the representation of me being the thing. Right. How many chains do you need? How many? I'm showing everybody this watch. This is 400. It's not expensive.

B (72:42)

Expensive?

A (72:42)

It's not a Rolex. I would never buy a Rolex. That is crazy to me. Why am I giving you 20,000? I'm giving you $20,000. Get out my face.

B (72:54)

Because that's what it gives them. It gives them the ego. It gives them all those things.

A (72:58)

The Rolex family. And how many have contributed to like the next five generations of these?

B (73:05)

No. I would.

A (73:05)

Coming from a corporation that has you, you in a 360 deal. Like they give you the money, I'm going give you a million dollars. I'm not going to tell you owe it back to me with interest. Do what you want with it. Now $20,000 means nothing to you. Cuz you've never had $20,000, but you definitely never had a million. So now you don't know what to do with the money. And then you don't understand that you just propped the fifth generation of this family up.

B (73:31)

Yeah. And then here we are and they're.

A (73:33)

Going to keep making watches.

B (73:35)

Yeah.

A (73:35)

Because every generation is going to produce more dumbass like you that don't understand what to do with money or the value of it. But don't under, don't see the value in building.

B (73:45)

Yeah.

A (73:45)

And putting back like bruh. A food bank. I think the, the food bank said that they can feed 25 families with like 100.

B (73:54)

Yeah.

A (73:54)

Okay. So if you gave them a thousand dollars, who you could you help?

B (73:59)

Bro, I think it's because of our individualistic ideas and need it right now. Yeah. And they don't feel it's their responsibility because hey, I did it. I got what I got.

A (74:11)

Why were you chosen? There's much better rappers.

B (74:16)

Well, we know the system and we know why. Yeah. We know what it is.

A (74:20)

But they don't want to hear that because I'm right.

B (74:21)

I'm ready for conscious rap again. I'm like, we have to clean the culture up.

A (74:24)

They charge you because you're the best dump. Like you're the best. You're so good at it. You're so good at putting the words together. But you're, but you have no idea about the world around you. Right. So it's very insulated experience that I get to get this POV from somebody who I can like zoo ify their life. Right. If because if, If. If we could just go to the projects in the peak crack epidemic, like, on a tour without being touched, they would have did that for sure. But the best thing we got is the motherfucker we could pull out of there that's very good at putting together work. Now he's supposed to be an orator for his community and almost like a living library. He is the news. He can tell you what's going on around him. But now the narrative changes. Because now I don't need to change anything. I've changed myself. I've changed my life. I have all of these luxury things. Look how white people treat me. You're saying this is my oppressor. He loves me.

B (75:21)

Yeah.

A (75:21)

All right.

B (75:22)

Yeah. That's what it is. And that's.

A (75:24)

Damn it, they got another one.

B (75:27)

But it is. And, like, that was my whole approach with using hip hop in my dissertation, was understanding that. Like, okay, understanding what is done to the fire.

A (75:33)

It really need to read this.

B (75:35)

Yeah, well, it's embargoed. But I am working. I use a soundtrack of my life to code my data. So I created a playlist to make sense of what it is that I wanted to do and just how to make sense of everything. Because I understood that we use this as an interpretation tool. Like, we make meaning out of who we are and we. What we are through music. And so, but understanding. And I lean into, like, KRS 1 and the gospel of Hip Hop and that book and all that type of thing, but just understanding who we are as a spiritual people, but understanding the role that consciousness has played in our society and the role that music and the words, the power of the spoken word and what we say and what we repeat and what we regurgitate and what we create, the realities that we're creating. Because it's no coincidence that every hood, no matter where you go, it looked the same. And so what is this? This is socially engineered, obviously. And so we really have to change the words that we speak and what we're putting into our minds and our children's mind. And even just now looking at stuff online, it's like, oh, like, this is not cute. Like, it's not cute. And as a woman showing up online, and this is not. No respectability, politics or nothing like that. But I choose to show up on the Internet the way I choose to show up, shoulders up, I don't be having nothing. I'm very like, no makeup, all that type of stuff. Because I think we need other representations of what it looks like to be A woman to be a black woman. And like, you don't have to do certain things to get attention or to be seen or to be valued. And I just think that that's important to show the holistic representation of who we are of people. Because I feel as a young girl growing up, I wouldn't know what to do right now. Like seeing this, seeing that, bro.

A (76:57)

The mind is enough though.

B (76:59)

Yeah.

A (77:00)

You know, there's nothing. It does bother me too. Like when you see a girl on IG and her entire personality is her ass. So like the whole. The whole page is her bent turned around like this. Am I lying? We all know this is a reality. And it's like the overvalue in the body because of what the society teaches. Value the body, whether through labor or sexual desire. No. No regard for the mind. Where the mind is where all the power is.

B (77:31)

Yes. Yeah. And it's like, I'm not. I understand the over sexualization of us and I don't even think we need to be od modest and hide ourselves or nothing like that. But it is trying to strike the balance and understanding like who we are as a people and who we are as a culture and what we ultimately want for our ourselves moving forward. And if we're seeing that we're down a road of destruction like this, we're devolving in a lot of ways. Like there's a lot of growth and a lot of innovation in our community. But if we just think about who and what we were and what type of movements we was on, like Black Lives Matter was on a movement even. No kings like there. No demands. How you having a protest and no demands.

A (78:05)

How you have a process and no arrest.

B (78:07)

No arrest, no. And talking about we going to obey and we going to listen. We going to do what you say, massa. Like this does not make sense.

A (78:13)

That's why I want to black people there. That's why I didn't go.

B (78:15)

So it's like trying to really understand. Yeah, it was. And so getting back to revolution, getting back to understanding who we are as a people and how we really come together and have unity and everyone's like, oh, it's not possible, it's not possible. But if we understand the power of the mind, you are what you say, you are what you think and understanding that you do have power in your tongue and understand that we can create whatever reality we want. So you have to start to change your mind to understand. No, I can actualize whatever it is that I want to actualize on. On this planet. And so I think us getting into that frame of mind and like I said, getting away from the fear will really, really help us. And using the power of the subconscious mind to create our reality is incredibly important. And I don't think we understand how that translates to our social liberation, our political liberation, and more importantly our spiritual liberation. Because this is not it for us. We have other places to be, our energy got other places to go. And so that's why we understand consciousness. And people trying to put their consciousness in a bottle and they want to stay here and live here forever because they understand that we are carbon based beings, that melanin is a code. Melanin's a new little word. Right. We're dealing with carbon and understanding what carbon has the capacity and potential to do. Like some people ain't gonna go nowhere else. This is all they are. And so we really have to understand what that means. And so everlasting life. Yes, you have the capacity to actualize that. And so understanding what that means for us in the social realm, because this is just a playbook, this is just a game. It's game theory. And so how do we then navigate that? And if you have the foresight, if you have the bird's eye view, how can you use that power to help others understand what their role is and what they're. And I think people like you and me, we get that. And so trying to build systems that allow people to come in and understand what is that we need to do to build something sustainable for ourselves is very important.

A (79:56)

Yeah, I'm an ill son. I just had Dr. Dakota Tyler. Tyler in here, you know.

B (80:01)

Oh yes, yes.

A (80:02)

That's what I'm saying. I'm an ill. I get a. I'm getting a real. You know what I mean? This ain't no celebrities. My. These real doctors. The reason I say this is that the, the part of it is like sexuality is not taboo. It is like a very natural biological thing that we're all experiencing all the time, all desire. The over sexualization is toxic because like you said, it lacks a balance. There needs to be a thing. This is something you see online too, where when a woman is beautiful, but she's also very smart and she's leading with the smart partners are turned off by that. Where it's like the easier thing for me to do to engage with you is through sexuality. And because they don't have any value either in their mind. Right. So now this is like intimidating.

B (80:50)

Yeah.

A (80:51)

Because I want to possess this person physically, but I I know that in order to do that I have to stimulate them mentally. I can't do that.

B (80:58)

Yeah.

A (80:58)

And this is where we get like this domineering, overly patriotic, like this is where the red pill shit come from. This desire to possess women without like stimulating them in a real way. Like just like as beings. Right? Oh yeah. So I think the reality that we live in right now is also a belief. Like we believe that if I go to work every day and I work hard at it, that I like because of what they told us. So they gave us something to believe in this American dream. We see people succeed in it, which is strategic. You have to see people succeed, succeed in it in order to believe in it. So I think even the thing is this, like they would probably, they would probably try to use me as an American dream, you know what I'm saying? But I'm not like, I'm probably nightmare because I'm like, I'm building myself up off of the attention and the beliefs that others have in me, not in this system. You know what I mean? That's why they wanted to get rid of TikTok. It's creating too many free thinking popular people. It's creating popularity in a space that is against this system where we've been hand picking the population popular people because they regurgitate the points of talking views and the values of the system. Right. So you believe that you can go to work and work hard and persevere every day, whereas millions and millions and millions of people in this country also believe the same thing. And only one or two people that you know have succeed at it. That is not a safe system. Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's real game.

B (82:27)

Exactly.

A (82:28)

That's prostitution.

B (82:29)

Yes. Pimping 101.

A (82:31)

101. I'm selling you a dream, baby. Now you want to be the bottom bitch or not? You know what I'm saying?

B (82:38)

We buy it, we buy into it because that's what everyone wants as much as they say, no, we don't want the system. No, you actually just want to be the man on top.

A (82:45)

Yeah. And well, so there's this thing that I get to with. There's this thing I get to with like these other ideologies that black people possess. Hebrew Israelites and things like this. Right. And then also like other white peoples like the Groipers and things like that. It's like none of them believe in the system, Right. They see the system's ability to control and dominate. They want to just be in the seat of that. They want to be the controllers and dominators because they think that their ideology is superior when it's all like birthed out of the same bullshit. So as much as we believe in the system's ability to, to like afford us the American dream, we also don't collectively believe that we can do anything without it. So because we're fe, we live in a fear of existing without the things already laid out for us. And like, I don't want to, I don't want to rebuild the system. I just want to succeed in it because it's already propped up and set up. I don't want to go back to like the 1910s where nothing was, was structured. And like, I want to go to, I want to be in 1930, like literally eating off this. So I think the thing is for me is like, if you have a collective belief of like what this shit does to you every day when you participate in it, why don't you imagine the life that you could live without it? And also like the technology that we could possess. There's way better technology out there than we possess now. They kill people for making better technology. Water being a. I saw that, the oil guy. Water technology is crazy. The, the amount of people that have been killed for making water based engines.

B (84:33)

Yeah.

A (84:34)

Insurmountable. The young man, you know, I think that the thing with him is it's a twofer. Right. It creates a fuel, but it also gets rid of a waste.

B (84:45)

Y.

A (84:45)

So this is, this is actually beneficial to the system because they've been trying to figure out what to do with the plastic.

B (84:50)

Yeah. Cuz the plastic's not going anywhere.

A (84:52)

It's not going anywhere. It's too important to the system.

B (84:54)

Exactly.

A (84:55)

So he actually benefits the system in a way of like upholding big plastic. Right. Oh, now we got somewhere to do it now like now we can make money twice off the ship and we don't have to discard it, but shout out to him because that's genius. It, it solves a really big problem of microplastics and plastic waste. But I can also see like when people's like, we need to protect it. It's like, well, we need to protect his intellectual property, not his life.

B (85:20)

Yeah, he's going to be fine.

A (85:22)

Yeah, because his life is fine.

B (85:23)

Yeah, exactly.

A (85:24)

Because he solves a problem for the system. They need to figure out what to do with these plastics.

B (85:28)

Yeah.

A (85:29)

The thing that we're, they're going to, we're going to see start being pushed is recycling plastic again. That's what we'll start being pushed.

B (85:36)

No, that's big. And I think you bring up a good point too. Just in terms of like innovation and ingenuity and like, like who and what we could be outside of the system. And that gets us back into consciousness and our imagination and concepts like freedom dreaming. A lot of scholars talk about this and I started to move away from dream like freedom dreaming and like really thinking about how do we actualize this and freedom living and start to think about that. But it is really truly our imagination freeing the mind to think outside of what we've been known to understand. And it's like, but how can you really tap into something that is otherworldly to then bring it here? You know?

A (86:10)

But because it's. Because they've tapped into it.

B (86:12)

It.

A (86:12)

Right. They've. They've already told you that without. This system is dystopian. It's going to be the red dirt and it's going to be the lack of gas and it's going to be the book of Eli.

B (86:21)

Yeah.

A (86:22)

You know what I'm saying? It's going to be the, the Mad Max. But like they. That isn't.

B (86:27)

It's hell, you know, but we're already in it.

A (86:30)

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So they sell you this idea that if this system crashes, you'll live in hell and cannibalism and they reinforce the idea so you continue to prop it up. But if, then if you watch a movie like Zeitgeist, so you go just look at the. You just gotta look into the advancements of Japan and what they've done for their people. Right. When they want to have a society that is constantly advancing for itself. Right. So like the bigger thing that we have here is like we don't have like an. We don't have a collective nationalism. Right. Because it's hard to be a national nationalists outside of your identity. Which is why we have black nationalist, white nationalists, Christian nationalists, because they have to be nationalists in the form of identity. Because their nationalism still has to exclude others. Because they don't want everybody to be American. Whereas Japan. Everybody's Japanese.

B (87:18)

Yeah.

A (87:19)

So this is for the advancement of Japanese people. Which is why we got bullet trains.

B (87:23)

Yeah.

A (87:23)

Which is why we'll build a bridge that cut away a two turn, a two hour commute into 20 minutes. Because it's for Japan.

B (87:30)

Yeah, but that's what I was.

A (87:31)

For China.

B (87:32)

Yeah.

A (87:32)

But for America, that means for too. I'm out. That's how they think.

B (87:37)

And I was thinking about this the other day, because I'm like, okay, America, we want to be the best, right? And I'm like. And we really have the capacity to be. Because when you think about buying, trading, and selling, we have everybody on our continent, so we have every country represented here. So we have. We are the place. And that's why they created us. We're the great experiment, right? We're their little baby to see, okay, how does this work? How does it go down? But because of racism, because of all these things, like you said, they want to keep certain people down. But that is a disservice to everyone. And that's my biggest thing with racism. We've been trying so long to try to get white folks to understand why it's so harmful. And you're being mean to us and da, da, da. It ain't about that. It's really about understanding. It reduces the quality of life for every human being on this planet.

A (88:18)

Destroying you too.

B (88:19)

Yes.

A (88:19)

Like, I don't need you to give.

B (88:21)

A care about me.

A (88:23)

Give a. If you care or not. I need you to care about the society that we live in and understand that your ideology is eroding them.

B (88:30)

Yes, yes.

A (88:30)

Every day. You know what I'm saying? Like, the thing is, is like. And that's why I never get caught up in like, that. That's why they never, like, point that finger at me about. Oh, you just pleading with white people. No, I'm actually calling them the out and telling them like, yo, bro, on everything. You for real. But if you would just do a little perspective change and see how you're getting too, we could all be living, like, literally happy ever after. Because the. The idea that I will harm myself to harm others is like the psychosis you living in psychosis. You have a mental illness.

B (89:05)

Because we. They've been given this idea of privilege. It's like, okay, just because your life's a little better than ours.

A (89:11)

But they also always hit it like, they always get so close to. Well, I. Well, I'm white and I don't have no privilege. I'm poor, too.

B (89:17)

Exactly. That's the point.

A (89:19)

You're almost there, dumbass. Yeah, you're almost there.

B (89:22)

So it's like. It's the same thing even with, like, feminism. And I'm not a feminist. I deal with more like Africana womanism. Because they understand that we need the whole family. It's not just women verse, you know, it's not even a versus thing. But it's just a matter that we need. We need each other.

A (89:36)

We need, we need the collective. That's why I like you can't, you know like for lack of a better term term like being red pill is like lowkey gay. Yeah. Cuz it's like constant seeking the validation of men and like demonizing women. But you attracted to women, you want to engage in sex with women. But all of your validation and all the places that you like seek acceptance is with other men outside. Like it's homoerotic without engaging in the sexual part. Right. Like that's the only piece that's missing.

B (90:07)

Yeah.

A (90:08)

And. And it's like if you would just go ahead.

B (90:11)

No, we don't know what you do behind close. Don't you?

A (90:13)

But no, I'm just saying like the thing is, is like all of these ideologies are rooted in needing to control something outside of yourself. If we would focus on the inward control system and the inward value system and like the thing is, is like how can I improve the lives of those who are around me too? Right. So I know that I contribute to a situation where I'm going to change several people's lives around me. It's already happening and it may not. It don't look how it's going to look. But it's not a belief system. It's actually happened. Like I have the actionable steps. Right. But everybody is capable of that. Right. So the person who's around me who benefits from my change also benefits because they're going to change the lives of people around me. Then that circle changes because of the people that surround. It's just. It's actually a self sustaining. But because we don't step into our power and we sustain like their systems, we don't ever see the power like within ourselves that we possess.

B (91:11)

Exactly. And it's really autopoiesis is something I've been looking into more because it's about self organizing systems, self sustaining systems. And when you talk about this idea of internal control because right now we have formal social control in our society. Right. Because we don't know how to act. Right. People aren't going to do the right thing. So we have to enact laws, laws and we have jails, we have prisons. We have all these things to kind of keep people at bay. Right. Whatever. Because we lack that self control. And if we had informal social control we'd be able to self regulate. We'd be able to be able to have safe systems, safe society, safe communities. Because everyone is one acknowledging their own safety and their wisdom and their choices that they're making. And they know they, they want a safe life for themselves and for their families. And so really understanding, that's why I always go back to spirituality. Because when you're right within your heart, you're going to make better choices. When you're right within yourself, you're going to make better choices. When you value your life, value yourself, you're going to make better choices. And we wouldn't need prisons and, and, and even the way that we're doing.

A (92:07)

There'S a fear of us policing each other out of the consequence. Right. If I over police you, I could go to jail in a physical way. Right. So I police your mind, I police your decision, but I can't police your physical actions, which is why if I see you harm somebody else, I won't step in out of what could happen to me both physically and like. Yeah, physically, doubly physically, like you can cause harm to me physically, or I could be displaced physically by the law that's already in place. So I had to let this law do everything. Right. And that's another form of control.

B (92:37)

And we allow the most unjust people to create justice and to determine what is true and what's not. And so the system is the system. And just understanding that you're gonna go, and I, I know you've talked about this. You're going to go through three systems of some sort of indoctrination and you're going to be the military, it's going to be the schooling, it's going to be jail, or it's going to be a combination of if you're lucky. And so really understanding what that does to you psychologically and what that does to you in terms of how we understand ourselves in society.

A (93:04)

Yeah, but we, I, I think that there's another facet of this that I like to talk about is the paying and power. So not success, but power.

B (93:13)

Okay.

A (93:15)

Police are not successful fiscally, but they are s successful in hoarding power. You know, know, the thing is, is like you see it in damn near every facet of life teachers, because they not success, they're not successful fiscally, they hoard their power that they have other students, but they don't have any power over the principal. The principal doesn't have any power over the superintendent. And it creates these hierarchies where everybody has to hold on to what little power they have. And instead of like in, in empowering other, they, you know, destroy them. Yeah, you know, in a way, in a way, in a way, like I'm a teacher, I don't make a lot of money. This is all I have. Yeah. How dare you question me.

B (94:02)

That was the frustrating part of me working in the school system. I was like, why are we talking to kids like this? Why are we treating children like this? And I'll even say, like, you get socialized to think that that's what authority looks like. That's what power is. And then when you start to really understand and deconstruct what power is and what we've been conditioned for it to be, we, the true power, is something different. But understanding that that's what these authoritative systems have conditioned us, and that's how we parent, right? That's how we understand. You have to harm them, you have to hurt them, you have to beat them into submission. And that's just not what works for the human psyche. And so really understanding. No, be kind. Speak life. Speak love into people. Speak love and life into your children. It's the same with your plants. It's like if we understand all of.

A (94:46)

The things, the words, the words, the words of the power. And I think, you know, when they say the truth will set you free, it'll set you free from the judgment of self. Even if it's embarrassing, at least it's, at least, at least it's there.

B (94:58)

Yeah.

A (94:58)

You know what I mean? Like, me and you can't be who we are if we're not honest about our facts of psychosis. You know what I'm saying? Because that is what it was. But that also is a thing that happens when you're on drugs. The thing that. My brain naturally created this for me. Hey, maybe I'm, I'm super. N. You know, I'm saying I'm super. I don't need drugs. I can activate that.

B (95:21)

Do you do mushrooms? Do you do. I said nah.

A (95:24)

I don't like manufactured. I don't like it manufactured. Like, I, I, I've done shrooms before. Cool. Great. I don't need to, man. I don't. I'm literally in the space of everything I possess. Sober is all I need.

B (95:36)

Yeah.

A (95:37)

You know what I mean?

B (95:37)

What I.

A (95:38)

What can I do to activate and unlock these things naturally? Right? Because I did it once before, before, and I'm not afraid to do it again. But I don't want to manufacture the experience because manufacturer part comes with anxiety.

B (95:49)

Exactly.

A (95:50)

You know what I mean? If I'm going have a trip, I want it to come on naturally. I don't want to take something and then be like, okay, T minus 30 minutes, we're going to trip balls. And then it's like, well, I don't know where this came from. What if my body don't react well to it? Now I'm out here thinking, the goddamn feds looking for me.

B (96:06)

No, that's facts. That's too for facts. Yeah. I feel like I wouldn't be afraid if it happened again. I just, like. I don't know, like, that I think I would recognize. Yeah. And honestly, my. My therapist. Well, I had a therapist then because I was, like, seeking, like, okay, do I have something? Like, y' all let me know, right? And no one was able to confirm any sort of diagnosis or anything. But then one of my. One of my therapists ended up being an Akan priestess. And she actually was the former president of the association of Black Psychologist. So super, like, Afrocentric, but she's in a con. And so she was like, yeah, if you had known me during the time of that, it would not have gone down that way. You would have had a safe space. We would have been able to, like, you know, allow you to go through that process. But there was fear because I didn't know what was happening at first. It was very euphoric, very beautiful. Everything's talking to me. Everything's like. Like. And then I'm seeing signs and symbols everywhere. I couldn't watch tv, I couldn't watch numbers. I couldn't look at too much stuff. I every. Everything was just talking to me. And so then I was like, okay, like, let me chill out. And it got kind of scary. Like, purgatory. Like, after a while, like, I started to, like, see demons, you know, or the energies within people. And I was just like, oh, like, I'm kind of, like, in the underworld right now. And I had to, like, come out of that. And so it was a great experience. I wouldn't necessarily wish it on others, but it was liberating for me. And to be able to talk about it has been a healing process in and of itself. You know, just get comfortable talking about it, especially from, like, a scientific perspective and as it's grounded in, like, my research and my stuff that I'm doing moving forward.

A (97:38)

Do you have any. Do you have any spaces maybe like, a substack or anything where people can go and kind of read more of, like, the literature that you're producing yourself. Are you producing any literature right now?

B (97:49)

I'm writing. I was invited to write for a special edition, a special issue for a journal, and I'm turning my dissertation into a book. And so I'm in The process of writing a lot. Right now I am setting up my Patreons. Folks can tap in and find some things and read some things. But right now, I'm just on the journey of building and writing so that it can be more accessible to the public. Because my dissertation is, like 250. 250 pages, something like that, and it's me, but it's still within the constraints of the academy. So it's like, I wanted to really take that and make it for the people. And so I'm working on that now.

A (98:25)

When it comes when your approach to religion and deconstructing those things, like, if you could just kind of give, like, a brief overview of your thoughts on it. I know that you touched on it earlier, but when you talk about the energy and the kind of, like. I think the way that you describe it best would be, like, a metaphysical awakening, so to speak. How did you arrive to the space of, like, understanding the story that it's trying to tell? That is the same story that was told in Kemet, and then understanding what their occupations was outside of, like, religion and control?

B (99:02)

Okay. I think my first. It's one of those things where you don't know how information comes into your life. Right. It just finds you. Right. I don't even know how I stumbled across this, but I know once I learned about the invasion and the conquering and, you know, we learned about it kind of in school helenization, like, they talk around it, but me starting to really understand, okay, Horus, that story was really, I think, what sold it for me, because I'm like, okay, if this, the Jesus story is Horus story, then that means there's no Jesus. And, like, that was simple for me. But then I started to realize other people, it wasn't so simple for other people. When I would tell people that, they're like, okay, it didn't really mean anything to them. So I'm like, okay, let me keep digging. Like, let me keep looking. Let me keep understanding. And that's when I came across the work of folks like Dr. Anthony Browder. That really helped me to understand that, that story and that timeline. But I just really, truly wanted to understand the history and, like, what this origin was. Like, okay, the Immaculate Conception story. This is not the only story that's been told. This is not the only crucifixion story. This is not the only resurrection story. So what was this story? And so then when I started to understand Horus, and then I was like, okay, this is still mythology. Horus was not a person. Right. So what is. What is this? What is this representing? And then you start to get into the winter solstice and the spring equinox and all these types of things. You start to understand the planetary movements. And that's why I really appreciate Dr. Dakota Tyler and the work that he does as an astrophysicist. But understanding how to bridge those gaps, because that's really what we're talking about. And so for me, it was just seeking the origins, understanding the origins. And then once I understood, okay, they have this Hebrew Bible, but there's a book called Hebrew is Greek, and it's like, out of print. It's been like $5,000 I've seen before, but maybe you can find it cheaper now and things of that nature. But they talk about the translation process in terms of how they had the ancient Kemetic word. They say they created this Hebrew book, but then it was translated into Greek. And so that's what I was talking to too, about, like, the Ethiopian Bible. We have this narrative around. Like, this is the oldest Bible. This is the oldest Bible. It came from our people. Da, da, da. No, that's not true. There is no proof or evidence that this book had anything to do with Africa prior to the Greeks. And so we have, like, all these codexes, we have the codices, we have the Septuagint, we have all these things that are predating this. And so understanding, like, that translation process and understanding what happened. So we have the Hebrew, but then we. We have Greek, we have the Romans. And we would not have this Bible if it was not for Rome. Like, we just. We wouldn't. We would not have it if it was not for the Greeks and the Romans. And so really understanding what that was just helped it all make sense for me. Understanding, conquering, understanding. These people would not have the throne nowhere if it wasn't for pillaging and rape and going against the very book that they were trying to impose onto everybody. And also when you mentioned earlier, like, the Middle east, quite quote, unquote, we forget about the Arab slave trade. So even the who go to Islam, it's like, what you doing over there? So Judaism, Islam and Christianity, those big three, they're one in the same. Yeah. And just really understanding what that is was really, really important to me. So for me, it was just about the origins, understanding the history, understanding the timeline. How did. How did we get here? Literally, how did we get here? And I've had folks still, even under my video, sometimes Jesus is real. It's a fact. It's a fact. A fact. It's a fact. Show me your citation, show me your proof. And it's like you want me to.

A (102:20)

Citing sources ain't no thing.

B (102:21)

And it's not even about site. It's like. But even some of the citations that we have been able to address, some of those folks have been found guilty of plagiarism and all types of things of like all these biblical artifacts. But you want me to prove the non existence of somebody. That's the proof right there.

A (102:36)

Yeah.

B (102:37)

So really understanding what that really means and really helping us to understand whose work we're for looking looking at and whose work that we're understanding is valid. Because also not everyone who's a PhD or a doctor or comes from an institution is valid or legitimate. And you have to understand who's also funding this research. So you have the Bill and Melinda Gates found. You have all these people who fund research, whether it's medical, clinical trials and all these types of things like what are their reasons for it, what are they doing it for? Who's in control of these systems. And so understanding that I think is really, really important for our people too. And being able to discern information. And I used to teach a class at UNLV and we talk talked about media bias and misinformation and being able to really understand who's who and what's what and having a critical eye. But yeah, I would definitely Dr. Anthony Batter, your Dr. Asa Hilliards, you know, your professor James Small. The out of Darkness Heavy is the Crown Volume 2 is coming out on Netflix November 11th and I would definitely check that out. There's the first volume that's already out on Netflix but it really talks about those African origins of spirituality. We have Professor Kaba Kamene, like all the OGs. One of my favorites online is the Real Marica. His work is really great and he really breaks down the the Bible and like chapter by chapter. He even gives people tools to be able to help refute biblical doctrine. So if you have family members or friends who are trying to like you know, combat and debate, you can just show them. And it for me it's about facts, it's about truth. It's not about. I promise you I went on this journey wanting God to be real it all. And most people, even Dr. Ray Hagens, he's dope too. And he went was a part of my. And he went on that journey trying to prove the truth in the existence of God. And he realized actually this is bogus.

A (104:19)

Well I, I think the bigger thing is, this is like, If the. If the entire journey is about proving something is real, it's probably not. Yeah.

B (104:34)

Yeah. Because the truth needs no proof.

A (104:36)

It needs no proof. It would. There's going to be signatures.

B (104:38)

Either it is or it is.

A (104:40)

Yeah. It's going to be signatures of it everywhere. I wanted you to add, if you could, just, like, some context, or not even context, just like, something concrete for people, like what you just did. So you walk right into it. But if you have, like, some resources as far as literature, and then, like, you just name those people that people should like, like, follow if they are on this journey or just are interested in, like, learning more about what you're talking about.

B (105:07)

Yeah. I mean, for me, because out of.

A (105:08)

Darkness was a new one for me. I'm gonna go.

B (105:10)

Yeah, it's a good one. And like I said, they have a lot of scholars who have dedicated themselves to this work. But I. I genuinely believe that if you understand Dr. Anthony Browder's work as a black American, that's going to help you increase incredibly, because he really shows you why it's relative and relevant for who and what we are and what's happening with this power structure in particular. And I think it also helps you to understand, like, the pantheon of. Of these deities or the mythology and to really understand that as it relates to. To science, you know, so those are, I think, like, what I. Who I listed and who I named. I would start there. Those are the people I would start with. Genuinely. I think their work is. Is valid, it's valuable, It's. It's well done. Because, you know that you have your brother panics, you have your Robbie Hemings, you have your people like that, but it's a little, you know, could be a little chaotic. Santos Bonacci was pretty influential on my journey starting out. He's not a black man, but his work is very deep in terms of the zodiac. So that's another thing, too, understanding the zodiac and its connection to the Bible and things of that nature. And so that'll be helpful for folks, but I think definitely starting with those OGs is. Is a good start.

A (106:29)

Yeah, I. I'm. I'm gonna. Before we wrap, I think that when I think about things just as they are, and, you know, I guess this would be donated. The critical thought.

B (106:40)

Yeah.

A (106:40)

But I just try to imagine things as they were. Right. So if I don't have, like, tall buildings and skyscrapers and I don't have. Have, like, big cities, and I don't have all this Light pollution. I. I can't. So we can't imagine the sky.

B (106:55)

Yeah.

A (106:56)

At night we can't imagine it. Right. So if the person that is creating these folk tales or they're just trying to get an understanding of the universe around them, you have to create characters.

B (107:08)

Yeah.

A (107:08)

If you want to tell these stories. Right. So I think the bigger thing about us is that we have to understand this is also like ancient times. This is ancient times. Times. And like it doesn't possess any of this modern technology that we do now. But these are also ways that they're conceptualizing and understanding the world around them through story.

B (107:28)

And if you understand like the Dogon for example, they were able to see things that we weren't able to confirm until we had certain technological advances.

A (107:35)

Yeah. Serious being.

B (107:36)

Yeah. And so really getting into Sirius, the Sirius star system is really important. And even to go back to your question, I would say Stolen Legacy is a good book, a good beginner book. Stolen legacy. George GM James is good. I'd also say yoru goo. Dr. Marinba Ani. When I saw that book on your desk, I was like, like it's a great one. It's really, it's dense. It's thick. But she really talks about, man, I be. It's intense. It's a big one.

A (108:02)

It's like just do a chapter. Like just start with a chapter and go back and do the notes.

B (108:07)

It's big.

A (108:08)

Yeah. And then I haven't read all of you. That shit is like a box bible.

B (108:11)

It's like my second chapter of my dissertation is like essentially all Yurugu and shout out to them. Someone from her team reached out to me on Tick Tock and I gratefully will have the opportunity to connect with her. So I'm just really excited about that. And then I was also going to list Dr. Amos Wilson is a good one in terms of your psychological understanding and just changing your mind and getting right. But like, you know, if you go on YouTube, serious times media, you'll see Dr. Phil Valentine time Crazy. He's great. Especially with DNA and light Freak.

A (108:44)

Yeah, he was a part of that. So I, I took, I. I took Everybody that had Dr. In front of their name when I watched Hidden Colors like oh, just listen to them.

B (108:54)

Yeah.

A (108:55)

Dr. Francis Crosswell, rest in peace was like big for me. You know What I mean? Dr. Phil Valentine, same thing.

B (109:02)

Dr. Umar, you know, he has great things to say.

A (109:06)

He has great things to say. You just got to know what stop to get.

B (109:09)

Yeah, he's got.

A (109:10)

I think there's a people like that just know what's starting to get off on because like I'm not really. I essentially I'm not even pushing the ideology. I think that's why I can do what I do.

B (109:20)

Yeah. And ideology is harmful. Like it is harmful.

A (109:23)

I'm not pushing anything but like true observational facts that I can back up and also like a little bit of my perception and observation.

B (109:32)

Your experience and it's life experience.

A (109:34)

That's it. You know what I mean?

B (109:34)

That's all you can do.

A (109:35)

Yeah.

B (109:35)

That's all you can.

A (109:36)

If you want to tell everybody. You unplug yourself. Tell everybody where they can reach you and tell them what's to come.

B (109:41)

Cool. Taylor Cummings, Ph.D. on Tik Tok the self love doc. I'm also on Instagram. You can find me on LinkedIn and the self love dot com. I'm working on books publications, turning this stuff into an audio visual project for you all. And we've got more to come.

A (109:57)

Yeah, I think. Have you come back? We could probably nerd out about this.

B (110:01)

Yeah, we could. Really? Like, yeah.

A (110:04)

I started getting like hella passionate in the middle.

B (110:05)

I was like, yeah. I started feeling. I'm like he could do it was like.

A (110:08)

I was like, calm down, calm down. This is an interview. No, we could.

B (110:13)

Yeah.

A (110:14)

Thank you for coming and spending your time with me and I'm glad we made it happen. You know what I mean? But yeah, if you ever in town, you know, we could do this again. I'm the car. Who's behind the camera? Big ice club cat. This is episode I just thinking about. I said that because I seen you on your phone. I was. I wanted this paying attention. Yeah. Always got an ear to the streets. This has been episode 100 and something with Dr. Taylor Cummings. Until next time. Take care of yourselves. Take care of each other.

B (110:54)

Peace. Just want to rap.

A (111:00)

I just want to rap, man. Yeah, Yeah. They say without the proper labor faith.

B (111:18)

Don'T stand a chance.

A (111:19)

I put my faith in faith and stand on fertile land I planted seeds Adeline D Turning the trees before rest.

B (111:26)

In peace tease get printed to me.

A (111:30)

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