Episode 139 - Director Daddy

Summary

Grits and Eggs Podcast - Episode 139: "Director Daddy"

Date: April 17, 2026
Host: Deante’ Kyle
Guest: Director Daddy (Filmmaker, Comedian, Musician)
Theme: DIY Black Cinema, Authenticity, and the Realities of Creating Art Outside Hollywood

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Episode Overview

In this unfiltered, high-energy episode, Deante’ Kyle sits down with Director Daddy—multi-hyphenate creative behind viral shorts and musical comedy—to talk about forging an independent path in film. The conversation dives deep into black film history, the pitfalls of the entertainment industry, and the value of authentic creative ownership. Director Daddy’s "Fuck Hollywood Productions" philosophy drives a lively critique of the system, advocacy for grassroots funding, and a vision for film outside mainstream gatekeeping. Throughout, both speakers deliver sharp insights, music and film references, and plenty of humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Birth and Purpose of Fuck Hollywood Productions ([03:01]-[09:53])

• Director Daddy's Origin Story: His early experiments with blending 1970s Blaxploitation with present-day realities in his films ("Super Nigga" and upcoming "Nightmare on Malcolm X Boulevard").
  • Accidental but intentional: Setting a film in the 70s but with modern references illustrated “nothing’s changed.”
• Rejection by Studios: Despite viral hits and crowd support, studios and festivals wouldn't take a risk on “Super Nigga.”
  • "They wanted to put Jonathan Majors in. In super. And like—yeah, you know, And I said no." ([08:54])
  • Reflects on almost working with A24, dealing with industry gatekeeping, and how audience crowdfunding fills the gap.

2. Reframing Blaxploitation and Black Film Legacy ([04:02]-[06:39])

• The deep value and misunderstood range of blaxploitation—"People would lump all of them into one category...but it’s like with anything." ([03:29])
• Hollywood Shuffle: Reference to Robert Townsend’s landmark film and its meta-commentary on black actors in Hollywood.

3. Casting Politics and Studio Disconnect ([16:42]-[19:53])

• Studio Blind Spots: Studios rejected ideas like casting Keke Palmer and SZA as leads, proving they fundamentally misunderstand black cultural “currency.”
  • "Our marketing team said that that movie wouldn’t...work out with them too. And I’m like—do you know who Keke Palmer is to Black people?" ([17:48])

4. Challenges and Hypocrisies of Hollywood ([30:26]-[32:00])

• Star Power, Authenticity & Agency: Studios care more about follower metrics than authentic fan relationships, making it hard to build truly meaningful art.
  • "Everybody who has followers doesn’t really have fans...or a cult-like fanbase." ([25:43])
• Modern Celebrity: Contrasts the “manufactured” celebrity in late-stage capitalism with the appeal of direct-to-audience creators.

5. Building Grassroots Art and Community ([47:29]-[54:38])

• Crowdfunding as Cultural Investment: Director Daddy emphasizes that community-funded films foster two-way relationships, bypassing gatekeepers.
  • "It’s a cultural investment...It’s like being a patron of the arts." ([53:00])
  • Vision: Success of “Nightmare on Malcolm X Boulevard” could make the team self-sustaining—audience is the studio.

6. Ownership, Influence, and Authentic Engagement ([41:15]-[45:00])

• Redefining “Influencer”: Not just about selling products—"I’ll actually influence your thought versus influence how you spend your money." ([41:25])
• Authenticity over Sponsorships: Both guests discuss making tough choices to stay true to values even at personal financial cost.
  • "When I said I’m not gonna do no gambling ads...I didn’t see a sponsor for a year." ([46:22])

7. Decolonizing Access: Tubi, Streaming, and the SoundCloud Analogy ([88:03]-[98:03])

• Tubi as a Platform for Black Film: The pros (accessibility, no studio interference, authentic audience reach) and cons (reputation for low-quality content).
• Comparison to SoundCloud Era: Director Daddy asks when film will have its “SoundCloud moment,” opening the door for truly independent work to break through.

8. Gatekeeping vs. Transparency and Information Sharing ([99:25]-[104:51])

• Information is Power: Both emphasize tearing down Hollywood's mystique by openly explaining how projects are made, funded, and released.
  • "Educate the audience. That’s how we avoid ending up in a society...with celebrities [who] don't actually have any morals." ([98:03])
  • "If people feel like I'm learning something from you...I'm locked in." ([103:15])

9. The Bigger Picture: Societal Change, Political Climate, and Community ([76:07]-[80:05])

• Hollywood and politics are interconnected; authenticity and activism are increasingly expected from black creatives.
• The digital world gives an illusion of community–real change comes from action and connection outside the “fuzz” of social media.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Hollywood Rejection:

• “When you go the Hollywood route, it ends up taking, like, 10 years just to make a film that...we could have made this last week with my friends.”
  — Director Daddy ([08:54])

On Recasting and Studio Blindness:

• “Our marketing team said that [Keke Palmer and SZA] wouldn't work out ... Do you know who Keke Palmer is to Black people?”
  — Director Daddy ([17:48])

On Cultural Currency vs. Follower Count:

• “They don’t understand cultural currency...White people don’t actually know who is important to Black people other than rappers.”
  — Director Daddy ([17:53])

On Building Community:

• “It’s a cultural investment...It’s like being a patron of the arts…you get to say you are a movie investor without having to put millions of dollars into a movie.”
  — Director Daddy ([53:00])

On Authenticity vs. Selling Out:

• “Naming my company ‘Fuck Hollywood Productions,’ I’ve automatically been like—I can’t just sell this movie to a studio.”
  — Director Daddy ([81:05])

On Platforms & Decolonizing Access:

• “We need to decolonize your mind. Forget about ‘it has to be on Netflix’ or ‘in a theater’—Tubi is a platform and it’s the fastest growing streamer, especially for young Black audiences.”
  — Director Daddy ([89:05])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Creative Ethos: [00:38]-[04:33]
• Blaxploitation, Black Film, and Hollywood: [03:29]-[06:39]
• Hollywood Shuffle / Townsend / Studio System: [05:24]-[06:39]
• Studio Rejections & Challenges: [09:53]-[16:23]
• Casting, Keke Palmer & SZA, Studio Disconnect: [16:42]-[19:53]
• Celebrity, Authenticity, and Fan Building: [25:43]-[32:00]
• Crowdfunding and Community Ownership: [47:29]-[54:38]
• Ownership, Influencer Critique: [41:51]-[45:54]
• Tubi, Streaming Wars, and SoundCloud Analogies: [88:03]-[98:03]
• Gatekeeping vs. Transparency Explored: [99:25]-[104:51]
• Outro & Call to Action Support: [110:15]-[112:56]

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Episode Highlights & Takeaways

• For Creators: Hollywood’s gatekeeping is not just antiquated, it’s out of step with modern black creativity and audience loyalty. Community support and transparency are viable, empowering alternatives.
• For Audiences: Supporting crowdfunded black films isn’t charity—it’s owning a piece of culture and pushing the boundaries of what stories get told.
• For Industry Watchers: The independent black film movement is entering a new phase, not just surviving but thriving in the streaming era, with new models for access, funding, and community.

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How to Support & Further Info

• Follow: @director_daddy everywhere, @fuckhollywoodproductions
• Crowdfund: "A Nightmare on Malcolm X Boulevard" ([110:20]-[112:12])
• Message: “If you can’t donate, share the Kickstarter, the link, comment, like, whatever—even a dollar counts.”

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Final Words

Director Daddy and Deante’ Kyle chart a vibrant, irreverent, but insightful blueprint for black art beyond Hollywood. Every laugh is mixed with a pointed critique, every story a testament to the power of community, and every call to action a challenge to rethink how we value, fund, and make black culture.

“We keep complaining Hollywood won’t make the stories we want, but you got all these creators who literally can do it…”
— Director Daddy ([54:38])

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Transcript

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Woke up in the morning and to God be the glory Thankful for another day to tell my story Put my

[A]

opinions in the universe and let them orbit I'm from the dirty soul with a dirty mouth My knee orbit, miss things Things on me like a Norbit had to refuse them Cause my bitch

[B]

no rest Fusion she gorgeous as I doubt my sons up and kiss my daughter forehead Tell them we gonna get

[A]

this money to my pocket Sn morbid

[B]

Remember living in apartments?

[A]

Now we playing mortgage

[B]

episode 100 and something I got the man the myth super nigga director daddy in the building. Daddy no relation. He's in the building. What's up, brother?

[A]

No kids, no relation, no nothing. Just Daddy. How you doing?

[B]

Good, man. I'm glad you're here. You know, we've been chopping it up for quite some time.

[A]

Yeah, thanks, man.

[B]

Always happy to help with the crowdfunding. I'm glad you're doing your independent thing. Fuck Hollywood productions.

[A]

We can't wait on them. We don't need them.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Do it ourselves. Nightmare on Malcolm X Boulevard on Kickstarter.

[B]

Go. It's actually fire.

[A]

Thank you, man.

[B]

I like how you pull from certain nostalgic spaces, but they still address modern issues like corporate America, dealing with white people in corporate.

[A]

I feel like it's funny because, like, that was, like. I feel like that's something that people talk about a lot when they see, like, super. My film, how it's in the 70s, but kind of now. And that was kind of an accident the first time we did it, because when I first started writing the movie, it was like, in. And also, am I good on the microphone? Do I need to pull it closer or anything? Y' all let me know. All right, good. Perfect. But, like, I feel like when I first started writing super, it was before. Like, when I first started writing it, it wasn't a blaxploitation movie. It wasn't set in the 70s. I was writing it set now. And. And then I watched Black Dynamite and Undercover Brother, which I hadn't watched ever, cuz I would. I was always skipping over them. But I always loved black exploitation movies, so I thought they were going to suck and that they were just like, terrible parodies. And I watched them and I was like, oh, these are amazing. And so I started adding the style. And by that point, we were going to shoot the short film for it, the Proof of Concept. And when we were on set, we were starting to be like, oh, wait, we still got laptops and stuff. And we're talking about Instagram, but it's the 70s and I was like, keep it in. It's blurred the lines. And then I started questioning it with the. With the team, and that's how we started getting on the idea of, oh, shit. There's a lot from back then that's still happening today that if you blur the lines, it's like, okay, nothing's changed, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's something I want to do with all my work because. Yeah, we're always talking about, you know, it's like how. I don't know, just. Yeah, shit has not changed. We're getting too comfortable acting like it has.

[B]

There's a. There's a space for modern black exploitation, so to speak. Because I don't really feel like those films were exploitive as much as they were, like, great. Greatly written.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

One of my favorite movies of all time is like, JD's revenge.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But that movie is fucking hilarious. But also like, like, the plot is amazing. The acting in it is like top tier. Like, this dude is playing two characters.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

At once. Niggas win Oscars for that now.

[A]

Well, that's the thing. And that Facts and about. It's like there's a range with Blacksplitation movies because you have like the Rudy Ray Moore movies and then you got like JD's revenge and shit or like how people would quote Superfly or whatever. But, like, you know, it's not. You don't. I feel like people would lump all of them into one category. But it's like with anything, even with Italian gangster movies, there's the. The. The. The ones that are trying to tell a story and then there's going to be. The bullshit ones are like, I don't know, the ones that are not Martin Scorsese, but they still mean something to somebody.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I don't know, I feel like the way that the black genre got treated, it's fucked up because it just. Yeah, it just. You put a label on the whole thing and say all of this is exploitive. It's like rap to say that all rap music is bad or all rap music is this like. No. Sometimes you need Future. Sometimes you need J. Cole, Sometimes you need a Tyler. You know, it's. There can be everything. We can have this. This genre can exist to allow space for black people to explore and experience all different kinds of shit. Whether you want a message or you. You just want to have fun.

[B]

Yeah. You know, I think there's a. Always a lumping in where we just, like black exploitation just really Mean black filming in the 70s.

[A]

That's just.

[B]

There's a. What's the show? The movie, Was it Dynamite by Black Dynamite? Black Dynamite. But the one that Eddie Murphy did.

[A]

Oh, Dolomite.

[B]

Dolomite. So like, so like even thinking about his approach to it is like, I'm going to get into a character and that's like, I mean, he's method acting like literally his entire career while making some like very memorable films and paving the way for other black directors and other black filmmakers to come after him. Because like when you go look at the budget that they had and yeah, how they did it, it's like anytime I start thinking about anything, directing or writing wise, I'm like, shit, I go, rudy Ray, more on these niggas and just make some happen. You know what I mean?

[A]

I mean that's literally. I mean, that's what I'm doing. And that's what Spike Lee did. That's what Melvin Van Peebles did.

[B]

That's why Robert Townsend, Hollywood Shuffle is the same thing. You know, Hollywood Shuffle is amazing in the sense that it's a film made in Hollywood about Hollywood and how Hollywood treats black people. Where it's like, yeah, this is black acting school here. You come to be a robber or a drug addict or a pimp or. You know what I mean? It's like, you thug number three. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Why it's able to do all that is because it's not made by Hollywood.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

You know, all you do all of that, but you. But it's not by Hollywood.

[B]

Yes, in, you know, in not of. Like, that's the biggest part once they

[A]

get involved is, you know, they're not going to let you say and do all that and be real about it. It's like, oh, well, we got to make sure this is safe and we're not scaring everyone. But when Rob, if Robert Townsend puts his money up, then who can tell you what to do with your money?

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, versus when you go to a studio, it's their money. So it's their film, it's their project and you're just telling their version of your truth.

[B]

Yeah, so what, what experiences led you to fuck Hollywood

[A]

too much? I mean, basically I got into. I started dealing. I started dealing with Hollywood. And after I made the Super Nigga Short film, which was in 2021, like a lot of people don't realize because we put it out last year, but it was made five years ago, which surprises people because they're like, oh, shit, I thought it was made yesterday. Like, it's still relevant. I'm like, well, that's what happens when you don't dilute the truth. But, like, I made the short in 2021, and because I was like, I don't have any connections to the movie industry, and I don't know how I'll get, like, the money that I need for. For this, so I'll make a short. And we crowdfunded the short I was starting to build. It was the beginning of me, like, building my audience online. So I crowdfunded for it. We raised $36,000 on Kickstarter, and then I made it. And that got a lot of attention from, like, industry people. I got a manager from, like, an agency and everything. And so from that, we started sharing the movie, the short and the script with, like, all these studios. And, like, you know, that's where a lot of people be like, because I don't know what you've seen, but I've ranted a lot about 824. But, like, because we almost made the movie with them. So it was starting to circle around a lot of industry people, but it got rejected from all the major studios, but every studio that it got reject from every festival, but every studio that was seeing the film was like, I love this. This is one of the greatest shorts we've ever seen, and blah, blah. So I was like, all right, festivals don't matter. The industry's already fucking with it. But then the issue with the industry was nobody wanted to take a risk on it. Whether it was because it's too controversial or because I want to act, direct, write and make the movie how I want to do it, which is a lot to ask for. I get it. I've never done it before, but I'm already doing it on a small scale, Whether it's the short film that went viral, like, crazy, or, like, the sketches that I do on the Internet, or my music that hits people all over the world or my standup. So I was just getting to the point where I was like, all right, well, these people are afraid to take a risk. But my audience has always been down and like, all right, if I want to do something, all right, let's put. Let's raise the money, whatever. I've done it for another film. I've done it. I've raised money for, like, my shows and all this and that. So I'm used to just going straight to the people. And when I have an idea, it's like, all right, put it out. And see who wants to make it happen and go versus when you go the Hollywood route, it's like, all right, let's see if this person likes it. Let's see if their boss likes it. Let's see if their boss's wife likes it. Let's see if their boss's kids like it. Okay. Does this actor want to be in it? Okay. And then it ends up taking, like, 10 years just to make a film that. It's like, we could have made this last week with my friends, you know, so. So that's where I was like, man, Hollywood, like, you know, they wanted to put. They wanted to put Jonathan Majors in. In super. And like. Yeah, you know, And I said no. I remember I said no. The studio was like, if you want to make the movie with us, we got to put Jonathan Majors. And I was like, no, I'm. I'm. I don't want to do that. And everyone around me was like, you're crazy. I remember a girl that I was talking to at the time was like, I'm going to save your name in my. In my phone as nigga who hates money.

[B]

And then.

[A]

And then, literally, like a week or two after I walked away from the deal, Jonathan Major's career blew up. The scandal came out, and I was

[B]

like, it'd been a perfect time for.

[A]

We could have been magazine dreams, you know, like, we could have been shelved or whatever.

[B]

So I ain't gonna lie, though. Magazine dreams. Great film.

[A]

I still haven't watched it.

[B]

It's a good film. I ain't gonna lie. Might be some of the best acting he's ever done, which comes on the back end of you beating a white woman over or allegedly, you know what I'm saying? At least a white woman beating your ass.

[A]

It was some violence either way, but like, God damn, big nigga to be

[B]

running from a little bitty white woman.

[A]

She's. I mean, it's better that she's a

[B]

giant to him in his career, though.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And the video. I mean, if the video was the other way around, he definitely wouldn't have a career at all.

[B]

Career being prison.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like, that should be over with.

[A]

Exactly. So I'm glad it was him running away versus.

[B]

No, he had the situational awareness like a motherfucker.

[A]

Yeah, I'm gonna get the. Out of here. This ain't good.

[B]

There's so. Hold on one second. Pause. What's up, no face man cooling. I'm. I'm gonna make a phone call because I don't. I don't left the house in a rush and left that I already know. I'm gonna see if. If my dog bring it real quick. I was like, damn. This new face walked in. I knew I was forgetting something. I left that said right. It's right on my vinyl player.

[A]

I was like, somebody took.

[B]

Hey, you got a whip? I need to get the vinyl from the crib for new face. Okay. All right, Bet. I'll call you back. All right. Damn. This episode is sponsored by Better Help. May is mental health awareness month, and I think it's a good reminder that whatever you're carrying, you don't have to carry it by yourself. Life is a journey, and some days feel lighter than others. But then there are those days or those seasons where your mind is racing, you're feeling overwhelmed, you're trying to figure everything out on your own. And the truth is, none of us has all these answers by ourselves. Therapy can be a place to talk things through with someone who is there to listen, understand, and support you without judgment. Whether you've been feeling anxious, stuck, unsure, or just like you need help sorting through what's been keeping you up at night, checking in with yourself matters. BetterHelp makes it easier to get connected with support. You'll answer a short questionnaire about your needs and preferences. And BetterHelp does the initial matching work to help you connect with a licensed therapist. And if that match doesn't feel right, you can always switch therapists at any time. BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform with over 30,000 therapists, and they've helped more than 6 million people globally. You don't have to do this journey alone. Find support and have someone with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] grits that's betterhelp.com grits. All right, let me put y' all onto something real quick. If you're still dealing with all these bank fees, overdraft charges, monthly fees, all of that, it's time to upgrade. Chime is changing the way people bank. This is a fee free banking built for you, not these traditional banks that make you feel like they're always taking something out of your account. What I like about it is it actually feels designed for real life. Like, why am I paying just to access my own money? With Chime, you've got access to thousands of fee free ATMs. If you've ever been in that situation where your account dips a little too low, they've got Spot me which lets you overdraft up to $200 with no fees. That alone Game changer. I know when I was using the Chime account that was a game changer for me. It was like getting in advance because there was no fee attached to it. Plus if you set up the direct deposit, that's where you really unlock the benefits. You can get things like cash back on everyday spending like gas or groceries and even grow your savings faster with a competitive apy. Honestly, I know my younger self really benefited from this and I think you know your younger self would have benefited from it as well because it just makes managing your money feel a lot less stressful and a lot more in your control. Chime is not only smarter banking, it is the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking and fee free today. Head to chime.com grits that's chime.com grits it only takes a few minutes to get signed up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank.

[A]

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[A]

Can I say, can I have one. One other detail?

[B]

Yes. How far you you. Not far from here. It's in Douglasville. Yeah, yeah. Unless I uber freight that. Don't worry about that. All right. That's on me. I forgot that. What you trying to say?

[A]

One of the other things that made me realize the studios aren't to be trusted was I wanted Kiki Palmer and SZA to be the two best friends and the two main like leads in the movie. Like cuz the movie cuz super is really about like as much as it's like a, you know there's a superhero called super. It's really about black women and how black women got to be super in society to come up because it's about a black woman in corporate America. It's really black Lois Lane origin story and you're seeing the like her Superman love story from that perspective. And so when. So I wanted, I wanted like the two stars to be like Kiki Palmer and Sza and because I was like I'm not a star. But what if we put stars in all the other roles and the superhero is not the main character. So I told the studio that that's hilarious though. And this is before one of them days and they were like our marketing team said that that movie wouldn't like it wouldn't work out with them too. And I'm like, do you know like who Keke Palmer is like to black people, to the world like we've grown up with her. She's been a star since we were

[B]

kids and scissors and Sza just her cultural currency is crazy.

[A]

But that's the thing. They don't know. They don't understand cultural currency. That's why One of my friends was like, if you notice who today gets production deals or shows and stuff, it's rappers, which no shade. I love the Vince Staples show. I love, like, even Donald Glover rapper. I love Atlanta. Like, I love what they're doing. But a lot of these white people don't actually know who is important to black people other than rappers, who, you

[B]

know, and they go off like, follower, counter followers. Or they'll just do like. Like, I wonder what system. I wonder what systems they're using to, like, run their metrics or, like, figure out what their metrics is. Because there's no way, as a nigga, if I hear Kiki Palmer scissors, okay, we're going to see that movie.

[A]

Super Nigga, Kiki Palmer Scissors, super nigga and whatever big studio got me.

[B]

But I think the thing is too, is, like, as we depart from, like, peak Hollywood, which is. What would you say to peak Hollywood? I say like, 70s.

[A]

Yeah, 70s is like, like, when Hollywood is that thing. Yeah. The golden era.

[B]

They're taking risk on shit. So Richard Pryor can drop a vinyl and say that N is crazy. And N is like, you know what? We locked in. Like, we tapped in with that. You feel me? But I think the closer we get to, like, what's the social media response gonna be? Like, they're trying to predict everything before it happens. So it's like, what's the social media response? Are people gonna be engaged with this? How much ad money are we gonna spend on this? Woo, doop. Whoop. And it's like, well, can't we even promote something with the word nigga and all these different things? And it's like, they won't look at the overarching thing or care about what this is gonna mean to black people. No, they care about, is a white woman in Arkansas gonna watch this?

[A]

They're not even thinking about a white woman in Arkansas. They're thinking about, will this sell to a random dude in China? Why the hell am I thinking about China when I'm making Super Nigga? There's enough black people in America that could make this movie pop off like crazy. Get out.

[B]

First off, you could dub this hoe. Dub that hoe in Portuguese and sell it in Brazil. Nigga going crazy.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

I'm like, super nigga in Brazil. Favelas, nigga.

[A]

Yes. And the thing is, they don't realize there are black people everywhere. Like, when they think about thinking about audiences in Europe or whatever, they're thinking about white people. But it's like, you don't know how to engage with black people online.

[B]

And we're also talking about less than 10% of the world population.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

Well, we talking about. Versus 40 to 60% of the world population.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And they always talk about this thing from a global perspective. But I think that the exchange between us and Asia is important for our. Our society as much as it is for Asian society to have, like, that manufacturing outlet. But we don't look at ourselves as, like, we exporting anything but entertainment. So when the entertainment is the main thing that we export, we also, like, think about how they're viewing it and what their gauge on it is. When the reality is, like, the best art is made by people who's like, I don't give a who. Like, this. I like this shit, and I'm gonna put it out, and then everybody else latch onto it. Cause it's like, there's. It's all conviction. It's an original story, and it's told from, like, a real unique perspective. Like, your perspective as a person that is like, I'm gonna be a superhero. That's irrelevant to the story. Like, I'm literally just background noise.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's like. It's kind of like on some. For lack of a better reference, it's like some Captain Underpants shit. Like, it's less about the fucking superhero and it's more about the storyline. But I'm going to use the superhero to sell it.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, it's like, if you think about. It's like Reservoir Dogs or, like, a lot of Quentin Tarantino.

[B]

That movie sucks.

[A]

You don't like Reservoir Dogs?

[B]

No. Why? Because it sucks.

[A]

It's boring.

[B]

It's like. And the thing is, I say nigga too much. No, it's just like, my favorite Quentin Tarantino movie is, like, Hateful Eight.

[A]

Yeah, I. Okay. Yeah. It's not my favorite, but I do.

[B]

I just like the dialogue. So, like, I like.

[A]

That's similar.

[B]

Not to me. Hey, the heist just doesn't feel like, Like. Like this could have been over 40 minutes. Yeah, yeah, but I get it. Yeah, but it's. It's not in my. I get a lot of flight.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But I always dislike the shit that everybody else.

[A]

No, I'm. I'm similar. I feel like I hate a lot of things. Like, when it's super popular, I'm like, I automatically. I don't like it. And it's not even a conscious thing. I think it's just.

[B]

I'm not even trying to be a contrarian. Like, I'm Not. Not purposely, but it's like, I've tried my hardest to, like, I was like, you know what? Maybe I'm missing something. Like, maybe I'm not watching it the right way. I'm like, yeah, I just hate this shit because. But I think. I think. I think Foxy Brown is, like, one of his, like, top three.

[A]

Yeah, no, Foxy Brown is. But. And some people say Foxy Brown is one of his best movies because that's the only movie that he didn't actually write originally. Like, I mean, Jackie Brown. Jackie Brown.

[B]

Jackie Brown.

[A]

Jackie Brown. Because that's an adaptation of a book versus all his other films are. Are original. So some people say that, but I don't know.

[B]

But I still found a way to put the feet in there.

[A]

Put the feet in it. Put the N word in it. Everything that's not even in the book.

[B]

Quentin Tarantino feet. And you know what I'm saying? Like, we gonna put that in there. He was like, man, I want to say. I want to turn the up somewhere. Let's set this in slavery.

[A]

Yeah, come on, Doc. Come on.

[B]

Django, though, great. Another great movie. Like, you can't deny that shit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think there's certain. I think there's certain risks that are afforded to, like, white people in Hollywood. It's not afforded to, like, people of color or black people in general. But I think that every time that niggas bet on theyself and just go for it, if they. If for whatever reason, they can convince the barrage of whites that it's worth making and they can pass whatever metrics, then you get shit like centers, you get shit like get out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you get continued success with these same. Because without. Nope. I don't think we take Keke Palmer as seriously as a serious actor.

[A]

But the crazy thing is, it's like. Which I get. But at the same time, I'm like, dog, she's been Akeelah and the Beast.

[B]

She's been everything at every stage. But the reason why I say as seriously is because she constantly has to prove herself at every level, which is like, she becomes such a personality that people were more enamored by her personality than her acting. And that's where it can get tricky for niggas, because it's like, well, we don't want you necessarily this movie, but you can host this daytime TV show. It's like, well, this was a serious actor, though. Whatever.

[A]

But then it's like that. I don't know. It's like, by taking those opportunities or building her own kind of platform outside of just the movies and stuff and making people more familiar with her, then it gives her a bit of leverage where the audience is following her to where if she wants to make her own thing, like how now she's got her own network and everything. Okay, people just coming to what I'm doing and, you know, putting their money into what I want to do. And eventually the bigger money is like, all right, what do you want to do? We'll put the money into it because you have the leverage, which is where we're at now. Like, you know, the whole idea of going to a studio or to a festival or whatever and hoping that someone's gonna see your work and be like, okay, I'm gonna make you a star and give you millions of dollars and blah, blah, blah, is kind of dead. It'll probably happen for some people, but at the end day, most of these studios, like I said, it's not even about. They don't know how to engage with black people. It's almost like all these mask companies don't really know how to reach people in general. They're very disconnected. So that's why they're relying on people who have an audience, a follower count or whatever. But the thing with relying on people with follower accounts is that everyone who has followers doesn't really have fans or like loyal, like, not to use this word in the. In the demonic way, but cult. Like a cult like fan base where, you know, today, whatever, Taylor Swift.

[B]

Which is really necessary.

[A]

Exactly. Because. But it's like the way to even build that relationship is to actually. It's like you. You're man. I see. I was with you at the, the New York show and stuff. I see how people feel around you. Like, I'm like, I see the connection that even I feel towards you before I met you, you know, like, I. You're someone that people really feel connected to and you're being real and. And the problem with a lot of the traditional ways of doing things is that it didn't rely on building a genuine relationship to the audience. So all these movie studios are failing with their big budget movies because it's like you're relying on these big names to sell these ideas that, you know, people don't really care about this new ip. And then also that person might have a lot of followers or fame, but I don't really care about them. So I want, I want. If I want to see them in something, I want to see them in the thing that they usually do. Or whatever. I want to see them in this random new thing.

[B]

I think the more than anything, what we've seen with celebrity was at one point is a manufactured character that we're using to sell you something. We're using to sell an idea about something. So if we have a Britney Spears who's a teen star, then we'll use her to sell beauty products to little girls and lust to little boys in this aspect, right? Lifestyle of teenagers, teens, right? But then you get, as you get older and older, like Will Smith. What is his idea? Like, what is he trying to sell to you? He's trying to sell funny, but family friendly, but cool black, you know what I'm saying? Like, rapper turned actor. This is the coolest black guy. Cause he's a rapper, he's fly, Fresh Prince of Bel Air. But also now we've packaged it where this is like, fun for the family. You know what I mean? This is good. We can do Men in Black and it's like, it's edgy, but it's not exactly. Like, you can watch this with your kids. This will play on tbs, but you won't get like a seven pounds on tbs. This is when he gets. But. But for people who care about the art of film, he also has the range to do that too. So, like, we also coming out of a generation of, like, people who were, like, extremely talented and they may not be the most personable. You understand what I'm saying? Like, they. They're disconnected from us, from society in that personable way, but they live, like, in an elite status as artists. Like a Jamie Foxx. Jamie Foxx is one of the most talented that's ever been born, period. And we may not understand him interpersonally, which is like, the challenge for a lot of celebrities is how do I connect to these everyday people without selling them something? They don't know how to talk to people unless they have a product. You understand what I'm saying? And I think the more we get into, like, criticism of capitalism, late stage capitalism, where we just kind of like seeing. Seeing through the smoke and mirrors of what it is. It's like, well, if the only time you ever show up around me is when you want to sell me something, I don't want nothing to do with you.

[A]

It's like we get a Kanye apology every time there's a new album.

[B]

You see what I'm saying?

[A]

Or Kanye scandal or whatever.

[B]

Or every time you see Beyonce. It's a product. It's like, exactly, you know, And I think people like because we've lost that affinity for celebrity. Because the mystique. The mystique kind of goes away when everybody's accessible. Yeah. So even your mystique might work when you like a Kendrick Lamar.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Because that works for. That works for music.

[A]

But also because, like, his work is that. It's like he can have the mystique because the work is about something.

[B]

Yeah. Versus, like, he's coming to tell you a story. Right. So, like, I am selling you something. Like, I'm selling you tickets, I'm selling you vinyls and products. But this music has so much substance. It's like. It's like his own way of introducing film.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Where it's like, yeah, man, I know. Like, if I go listen to the Beyonce album, like no Shade, I don't want the hive to get on me. But it's like, I know that I'm gonna have like five chart topping songs and I probably won't know the rest of the album. But that is what it is. It's like, I'm coming to sell you this idea. Like, Beyonce is like a deity to

[A]

some people versus, like, Kendrick is like giving you an essay. And then when he's not giving you music, you're like, I don't want to know what Kendrick's thinking right now because he's probably doing some research and living

[B]

life with a Kendrick in the mountains or something.

[A]

Like you. So it's like when he's in Peru

[B]

meditating, he's only drinking the purest of still water.

[A]

Exactly. You know, when he comes back, he gonna tell me everything that he did, whatever. Versus other artists is like, when you're quiet, I don't know what you're thinking. And then when you speak, I don't really know what you're about, but I know what you can make, you know? And the way that they had to build their careers didn't require building a personal relationship versus now. It's like, you know, we're doing this. We're like, we're just. We're not. We're just talking, you know, people getting to know, like, what do you think about this? What do you feel about this? Okay. And then on top of like, where do you put your money? What do you believe in politically? You know, all that stuff.

[B]

So I was gonna. I was just gonna point to that you. Cause you do this because being black is, like, inherently political, given our history here and just, like, how it faces society. Your music, comedy, and film are, like, inherently political because it's about being black. But like, unapologetically, right? So, like, I love using your mute, like, every. Every Black History Month. Yeah, yeah. Thank God I can say nigga.

[A]

Literally. I remember at midnight, like, every Black History Month at midnight, like, going. My phone just starts vibrating. I'm like, new TikTok creator. And, like, it's dope. Because when I first made the song, like, you know, I don't think about these things. Like, okay, is it going to become an anthem? Or how's it going to be received? It's like, I just make the thing. And I'm like, okay, this is what I feel. This is dope. And, you know, I like it. I remember when I made the song, I was just. I just had the beat. I said, I recorded the hook. I asked my brother. He walked in the room. I was like, is this dumb? Do you like this? He was like, no, this shit good. And I was like, all right.

[B]

But that's. But that's the. That's the beautiful part. This is the things that we start to lose where music requires some level of substance in order to be taken seriously as music. But, like, comedy and music have always kind of had an intersection. And, like, you see this with, like, what's the dude, Weird Al Yankovic? Or you see this with Wild N Out. Like, the wild style freestyles where we just gonna rap and roast each other. But also, like, we need things that could feel like fun. The shit that you do, it has a message behind it, and I understand what the message is, but it's fun to carry that message.

[A]

Thank you, man.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

I mean, it's like, you know what? Because I. Growing up, I was a fan of Weird Al. I did. I liked the Lonely island and stuff. I was telling. I was telling my friend Ken right there. I would. We were talking about, like, when we were in high school, I was obsessed with all that. But the difference between me and them is, yeah, their music is just funny. And. And it's fine to be just funny. That's what a lot of people want to do. For me, I'm like, man, if I'm getting all this attention, I want to. I'm gonna say something. And this also the stuff that I'm saying when I'm not being funny. So it's all the same thing. That's why when people are like, I don't want to be political in my music, in my art, I'm like, for me, it's not being political. I'm just. My art is just what I think and say. So if I'm having a conversation. Something in that conversation might end up on stage or in a song or whatever, because I'm being myself, I'm not being a character. Or it's like, obviously as an artist, you know, on stage, whatever, you're being a heightened version of yourself. So there is a level of character, but the character starts from a truth versus, you know, and then you're using this like Muhammad Ali. Muhammad Ali in the ring is a character at the press conference is a character that's not. He's not always like, float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. But that mentality does find itself in other areas of his life too.

[B]

I think it's the charisma, though, that's necessary for business because, you know, you need these things. Like, I think that there's an understanding of marketing that most people just don't understand. And it's like, people want to see a show if we're going to sell tickets, what's the show? You know what I mean? And like, is it worth me investing my time just because you're a good ass boxer? Whereas, like, on the other end of this, you get Mike Tyson, who is not as savvy on the mic, but he is such a fucking savage in that ring that it's almost like that becomes the marketing table. We're going to throw niggas to the wolves, you know what I'm saying? We're going to throw this random white dude in front of the mic and let's see how fast Mike can knock him the fuck out. It's like last 20 seconds, right? But, but the thing with Ali is he's an amazing technical boxer, so he needs competition and we have to. But we also have people that can compete with him. And then, you know, pivotal times, right? Pivotal times. Black black empowerment movement, black Muslim, rise of black Muslims, draft dodging, all these different things. Like, the N just couldn't have been born at a better time.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And I think that that's true about everybody. Like, I was just having this conversation with Lex, Andrea, and they was like, I've never really seen somebody cover so much ground in two years in this podcasting space without being a celebrity. And it's like, it's just like, I'm just a perfect nigga for this time. I just know that, like, I. I had to go through everything I went through to be who I was. And this time found me, right? And I found. And I just. It was in alignment with it, which means I can go to the moon if I want. To you know what I mean? But as long as I stay, like, it's that time, and it's like, what you do with your time. And I feel like anybody that's, like, working towards something, they have dreams. Especially people that are like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, in your heart of hearts, like, you have the talent, you have the skill. There is no, like, doubt about what your talent and skill is. Sometimes it's just waiting on time. Like, you know, I think a lot of people don't necessarily have the talent or the skill, but they're always working. So when opportunity comes, it'll flop.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? But they did get their moment, and, like, they may be cool with that. You know what I'm saying? You see this all the time. Niggas get their 15 minutes and they run that shit into the ground, and it's like, but that's cool. But oftentimes I always try to express this to people who have, like, just pure talent. Like, you could just tell, like, they are gifted people. You have to keep working, because when that time come, it will. I just feel strongly about, like, everybody going to get one opportunity. It's just really about what you do with your opportunity. And, like, sometimes niggas fumble that shit.

[A]

Yeah. And I feel like it's like if you. Especially if you're not living your truth, then it's very easy to fumble that moment. Because say, how you say, you know, this the time caught up to you. You were already about what you were about before the moment came or whatever. Like, and if it. Even if. Even if it never came, you'd still be doing this. Still be saying this shit and whatever.

[B]

So.

[A]

And versus, you have other people who probably see, like, especially under, you know, this administration and these. This political climate, as people like to say, you know, there's a racial political climate. Like, there's people who probably never ever not probably. There's people who never talked about anything real in their personal life or in their art. And now that it's becoming a requirement from the people they're. They're funneling, or like, I don't know what to say. Or there's people who are, like, trying to take advantage of the moment and seeing, like, oh, now's the time to say something. I'm gonna say something. And then they look like an idiot and you fuck it up. Like, it's like Jack Antonoff wearing the pin on the red carpet at the Grammys. And people ask him, it's like, oh, what does this mean? And he's like, well, you know, like, you can't even say what you represent.

[B]

Because I think the thing is a lot of people aren't vocal about what their beliefs is because it's not their beliefs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So this is a, you know, this is social media, right? Like, bruh, if the thing was like, if niggas made it popular to club seals tomorrow, it'd be niggas like, bruh, I've been clubbing seals for 20 years. I've been on this, man, this is old. Like the dudes I started clubbing seals, I started the whole trend. And it's like, well, show us yours. It was like, well, actually, you know, I don't keep the.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So it's like I used to do it. I'm saying, like, it's actually old to me.

[A]

Y' all just catching up shit.

[B]

Think the thing is, is like whatever's clever will jump on. But I think that when like, like what you said the moment, right. Politics and being anti capitalist are the COVID really exposed a lot of this that we, you know, once you can turn the treadmill off for a second, it's like had never rested. I don't think.

[A]

Ignore it.

[B]

I don't think that. I don't think that people understood how much they have never rested. And so when you forced to be at home or you forced like even just collecting an unemployment check, you understand how like, like empty that made people feel at one point. And then like three months into it, they're like, nigga, this shit low key kind of smooth.

[A]

Why? Been working like we could have just

[B]

been doing this, nigga, y' all could have just gave me 3,500amonth. That's all I needed to live like basic income. Because most people don't really like, like luxury is time. Yeah, Luxury is I get to knit. Luxury is I get to scrapbook. Luxury is, you know, like, I think. I think for the. Sometimes there's a. There's an attention deprivation that requires people to seek out attention from masses amount of people and materials. Right? Like for me, materials is like whatever, you know what I mean? Because I wear like the same five shirts for five years just working in trucks. Because it's like these my Carhartt shirts, these. These shits get dirty and they durable, you know what I'm saying? So like I don't need to be dressed to impress, nigga. I'm going to shippers and receivers. That's it.

[A]

I'm comfortable.

[B]

None of these fucking people, like, they don't give a shit what I'm wearing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, like, at some time, at some point, it's like it actually made me stop giving a shit. Not like I'm not be presentable, but like, yeah. Like, name brands don't matter. I used to see niggas hop out, like, fresh as fuck. I'm like, why?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're not even doing it for themselves.

[B]

They hop out, they truck fresh as fudge. It's like, bro, this is a muddy parking lot. Like, I would never do this to my shoes.

[A]

Yeah. There's a time and place for every goddamn thing, and this ain't the place.

[B]

So then this gets to the middle point. What I'm trying to mention is, like, this is the only time to interact with people, and this means something to them. Like, they want to impress them materially. When the person that's behind, like, you're the 200th truck driver, they seem to, like, they don't give a. About your tech fit. They don't care. They don't care.

[A]

You can go home, bro.

[B]

It don't matter. You just bought this for no reason. You know what I'm saying? Like, to get it dirty, to get it. What's up? And then it's like, damn, you ain't even hurt, were you? I know you ain't working. I know you ain't doing shit. You know what I'm saying? But I think for me, it's like, the moment. This is the state I've been talking about since I was, like, 23, 24 years old. I've been studying the Panthers. So I already understand, like, what the theories and ideologies of Mao is and shit like that, where it's like, oh, yeah, man. Oh, this is what y' all talking about.

[A]

Oh, bet Tag me big clubbing seals.

[B]

You feel me bend. Clubbing, huh? I got mad clubs. So. So the thing is, it's like. Like. Like time meets opportunity. It meets experience. And, like, I'm prepared. I'm ready.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I have, nigga. I have. First of all, I have a wealth of life that I don't live. I'm. By the time I blow up on social media, I'm just about to turn 33.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so it's like, oh, man, bro, I've been like. I've been out here thugging, bro. Like, we could really get into this shit. And building a personal brand is just as important as building a brand, right? Like, it just depends on what it's for. I can translate my personal brand into a Grits and eggs, and now it's synonymous. Right. But I started with the personal. So it's like, I've also created an atmosphere where people are gonna follow me anywhere I go. So speaking to your point earlier about influencer is, like, I can actually show up in your movie, and it's gonna. It's gonna make an impact.

[A]

Exactly, Exactly. And that's even you using the word influencer because the age of influencers is changing.

[B]

Yeah, because I'm not. But. But my influence is not about selling.

[A]

But, yeah, it's like, I'm not like, no, it's like imma actually influence your thought versus influence. The thought versus influence and how you spent. You spend your money.

[B]

These are marketers.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? Like, and I think that. I think that I talked about this. Like, man, I don't know remember when it was. But I just know whenever I say something and it just light tick tock on fire, I'm like, yeah, I just said some shit. I was like, let's stop calling these niggas influencers and call them what they are advertising.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

So they are.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And it's like, yeah, nigga. Like, polyester ain't that good. No, not for you to be selling day in, day out. That's all you do. You help polyester nigga.

[A]

And all these people, they don't even like a lot of them. They're not reading into what companies they're running. They don't give a shit. Like, check. All right, cool. Yeah, you should wear this sunscreen or whatever.

[B]

Blah, blah, blah, blah. Bro, it's disheartening because it's like, dog, I didn't see you on here selling, Matt. Like, I ain't mad at you. Get your bag, like, get your money. But, like, then, you know, you do a little digging. Like, you know, some of these companies is only offering product.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

So you did this for five free shirts. It's crazy work, brother.

[A]

And it's like, you don't need to do that. You don't need.

[B]

Like, you don't have to. You wasting your influence. Because what happens to the people that care about you and your content?

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

To like, oh, this just want to sell her shirt. It's like, all right, well, fuck him.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

That's how you become. You become the shea body butter nigga. Now nobody care what you say. There's a shea butter nigga all greased up.

[A]

He go with his bottle. And then that's what you gotta do. You gotta.

[B]

You the body butter nigga. Or something like that. This is crazy, man. That's why I was like, you not even Dion Cole. Like, you not even like Dion Cole Old Spice. You not him.

[A]

Nope.

[B]

You are teemu as fuck. You just a body butter nigga, bro.

[A]

Exactly like Dion Cole. And the Old Spice is like, you know Dion Cole and you know Old Spice. You know what? I'm two things coming together versus, okay, you just their puppy. You're their.

[B]

I will take a whiff of the old SM when I pass by it.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Cuz I seen the Dion Cole. I might not buy it, but I

[A]

would y Y Now that.

[B]

Should I put it back? Shout like Dion Cole. Come on.

[A]

Yeah, get your money. D.C. you know, but that's the thing. It's like all these people, man, they are. They like I always say, like, man, I don't want to. I question. Because there's times where I'm like, you know, like, how you talk about my music and I'm like, there might be a day where my music has nothing to do with race, but I'm still talking about and deal with it in other areas of my life. But right now, this is how I want to express here. Whatever. Or if I want to make a movie that's about something, this project or this or whatever. Just, like, how we're able to move to, like, how your audience will follow you from the podcast to whatever you do. It can be the same when you build your career off of just being authentic and being yourself. It's like people literally just fuck with you. It's not like, my favorite example is always like. And I guess it's probably change a little now. I don't know how people feel, but like Macklemore, back when he first came out with Thrift Chop, people didn't care about Macklemore. They liked Thrift Chop. And once he couldn't give them another Thrift Chop, they didn't care about him. They moved on. But then now it's like, okay, he's, I guess, starting to be more vocal about what he really feels. And it's connecting with some people where they're like, oh, he cares about Godza. He cares about this issue, Whatever. So people like, I don't know, it's like, I saw.

[B]

And you probably should have been popping that from the beginning.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

But you also have to understand that these people work for like, mega, mega, million billionaire corporations.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

That's like, yeah, shut the fuck up. Free who?

[A]

Yeah, no, get.

[B]

Go put them fucking clothes back.

[A]

Exactly, exactly.

[B]

And it's like, I'm Contractually, I got three albums left.

[A]

I gotta show up.

[B]

I guess I gotta make like, 10 thrift shops and get the fuck out of this deal.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Otherwise, it's like I can't have a career. I can't leave this label. I can't release anything. They own me.

[B]

Yeah, the contract. The contract is so binding. And I think that that's where, like, for me, you know, it get a little. It get muddy, like, from like, even going back to like, the just, like, tick tock shop things or like, that level of influencer where you just an advertiser. I always. I'm so fucking, like, pop culture consumed since I was a little boy that I know what I know when I recognize, what I recognize from tv. So, like, I know it's time to go to bed when QVC asks me.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Like, when niggas is talking about the ninjas, the ninja bullet.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

When we just. When we just making smoothies, nigga, bro, it's 2:00am and you just making smoothies. I need to go to bed. I don't have no interest in this.

[A]

Yep, yep.

[B]

And so, like, when you just on TikTok making smoothies, it's like, all right, well,

[A]

being sold all day, I never

[B]

seen Chris Hemsworth do this, nigga. No, it's safe to say you'll never be that.

[A]

You're not that guy.

[B]

You ain't that guy, nigga.

[A]

No.

[B]

And I think money is important, right? But what's more important is, like, the legacy that you want to leave for yourself. And I think you notice this with all the greats. Everybody want to be a great. They don't want to make the sacrifices that niggas make. Like, you gonna. Sometimes it might take a little longer to get the bread.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? When I. When I said I'm not gonna do no gambling ads and I'm not gonna sell male enhancement drugs, when I made a firm stance, bro, I didn't see a sponsor for a year.

[A]

I mean, I get it. It's like, I. I early in my career was like, yeah, I'm not gonna. Anybody about to put money behind. I'm racist. I don't fuck white girls. Like, thank God I ain't white. Like, national, nigga. Dudes like, yeah, but like, bro, if

[B]

Motown was still popping, you'd have been. You'd have been better put some drums behind that.

[A]

But I'm like, I think. I'm thinking, like, how you said, it's like, it's the long run. Because over the years it's, you know, seeing super was able to get funded off of just my audience. A nightmare on Malcolm X Boulevard is at like $60,000 just off of my audience and on its way to 200. So it's like, it gets to the point where it's like, okay, I might not be getting this money from these brands or whatever, but I have a two way relationship with the audience where I'm giving them information, entertainment and inspiration, all this different shit. And in the end it's like, okay, they're supporting me. Whether it's supporting the work or all right, hey, let's help fund this thing, you know, let's buy tickets to this show.

[B]

So it's a perfect timing too, because I think that most people will say, like, I want to see some new, fresh movies. I want to see new, fresh films. What you're doing is giving them an opportunity to fund that. You know what I mean? And it's also a trust thing. Like, I trust this nigga to be integral with the bread and to like actually produce the films he say he gonna produce and successful or not. You know what I mean? If it, if it does 20k or if it does 200k, people can say I was a part of that.

[A]

And that's the thing. It's like. Cause for me, with Fuck Hollywood productions, I always feel like night when I'm talking about, like, come to Fuck Hollywood productions. You tied all the studios and messing with the scripts, whatever, but like, it's like trafficking, you know?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I keep saying, like, Hollywood is like, the Epstein files is just Hollywood. So why do people still want to go to Hollywood? That's why I'm like, fuck Hollywood.

[B]

Like, you know, you know how crazy it is. Like, yeah, I still want to be a star.

[A]

Literally, like, yeah, I know about all the parties.

[B]

I want to be there. Look, brother, look. Hey, hey, if they eat me, come on.

[A]

And you know, it's like, it's not to say that every single person in

[B]

Hollywood, it's so crazy that this is a normal conversation. Like, literally, like knowing this first of all, five years ago, this is schizophrenia talking.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. People like, oh, that's the weird uncle

[B]

who told us that needs to put the phone down. Yeah, yeah, that nigga need to go touch. This is a touch grass conversation. And I was like, see what happened, nigga? Yeah, but in films and in movies, they always show you like the, the tinfoil hat niggas always be wrong.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, that's the thing, it's like I've been trying to find ways to talk about it in Stand up, where, like, you know, I don't need the. I don't have the joke yet. It's gonna be dumb, but just how, like, I don't need the Epstein file. Snow niggas in Hollywood are, you know, doing all this crazy shit. We been had Illuminati videos in middle school, like, straight up. But in the past, it was like, conspiracies and people didn't know how to talk about. So they're like, man, they doing the devil shit and this and that and the video.

[B]

But hey, look, look, I'm gonna tell you something. Let's talk about something. Yeah, let's talk about the correlation between Illuminati videos and big budget music videos just plummeting.

[A]

I never thought about that.

[B]

All the symbolism was in them big budget movie videos. And as soon as them illuminati videos dropped 2011, niggas was like, all right, just get a camcorder. Make your own video.

[A]

Just hire your boy.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, hire your boy, man. Make another video, you bitch ass nigga. You wanna expose us, dude?

[A]

Cause it's like, man, I was directing music videos. Like, that's what I would do freelancing when I got outta college. And so it was funny learning what the budgets of music videos used to be. Like. People were getting hundreds of thousands of dollars just to direct. Like, you could like, I don't know, like, what's the Hype Williams could literally make a living off of just a music video was a movie budget, bruh.

[B]

If he did three videos a year, he's up.

[A]

Exactly. But then he's up.

[B]

Crazy.

[A]

Yeah. It's like, now you gotta do like a crazy.

[B]

Can you imagine how much the Hate Me now video cost, nigga?

[A]

Literally, that is a move.

[B]

There's a lot of fire in that

[A]

motherfucking special effect everything. Like, now it's like you got to figure out how to do it for cheap. But like, again, those budgets weren't. No. Nobody in corporate America is putting that kind of money into something just for the love of art.

[B]

Oh, well, also, too. Yeah, well, also not for YouTube.

[A]

Exactly. Exactly.

[B]

This. She used to go on music television bet like VH1. This used to go to. It was. It was just a transfer of funds, nigga. I own this record label, but I also got like 15% stake in MTV. So I'm just like transferring funds because this is going directly on that platform. And when you operate in like a small conglomerate, like that. Like, basically a techno oligarchy. Techno oligarchy, nigga. I don't give a fuck about spending $2 million, niggas. It's like I'm spending $2 million with myself.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? So, like, yeah, nigga, if Busta Rhyme's gonna be a speeding bullet, go ahead.

[A]

Good.

[B]

Go ahead. If you want to turn on a liquid, have at it. But if we gonna put this on YouTube, y', all, like, give me my

[A]

money for the people. But that's why.

[B]

For appreciation.

[A]

No, but. But that's why. It's like, when I think about, like, fuck Holly Productions, and, like, my approach is, all right, the things that I've made so far have been just crowdfunded. Like, the super Nigga short film was crowdfunded. So there's no studio to give me notes. Nobody could tell me what to do. It's just. All right, y' all trust me. I'm gonna make the thing I told you I'm make. And then you get it, and they love it, and they're going crazy about it. And I'm like, why not just keep doing that? Like, you know, Super Nigga was. We raised $40,000 with, like, 300 people or 500 people. So already there, I'm like, we don't need a million followers. Whatever. We can be niche and still make shit happen. And then if. Let's say with Malcolm X, A Nightmare on Malcolm X Boulevard, my feature film, let's say we fully crowdfund the movie through the audience. $200,000. Who said the movie has to make money at that point? It's like, the audience paid for the movie. Y' all get the movie. I won. And now if it does make any money, that's just an add on. That's a plus.

[B]

And this is also, like, a thing where we can create a platform for you all where we don't have to worry about ads and we don't have to worry about, like, you know, you come back, you spend five bucks.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You know what I mean? But of course, like, think about this. Think about me. If I gave you 40 bucks towards your film, and I was like, man, you know, you remember I told you I put that money he made the movie.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

I'm gonna tell everybody I know, like, yeah, bro, I helped make the movie. I helped make the movie.

[A]

And for me, it's like. It's almost like it's not the stock market, but it kind. It is an investment. It's a cultural investment where it's like, all right. It's like being a patron of the arts, you know? Like, all right, the people who, the people who, who paid for. Whether it was like people who gave Basquiat money to make his art, you know, or like people today who support an up and coming artist and they're like, I'm a fund this shit and whatever and let's say as it gains value, cool. Now you, now your portfolio just gained a little bit of value or whatever. But either way, for people who are investing in my movies, I'm like, man, you get to say you, you, you are a movie investor without having to put millions of dollars into a movie for sure, you know, and if that pops off or whatever, you are a part of that and hopefully the next movie. Then if, if A Nightmare on Malcolm X Boulevard makes the money it needs to make, we don't have to go to a studio ever again. Because now we just, we made the money to now make super nigga, you know, and now we're self sustainable. So for me, it's like we keep complaining about Hollywood not making the stories we want to make, but you got all these creators who can, who literally like, can do it. Like the Vince Staples show can keep happening. It's not like it can't happen. Like 2 million people are watching it on Netflix. Those people could literally all give five dollars to a Kickstarter. One hundred dollars or whatever. Two million people give you $10. Imagine that a hundred thousand people give you 10. All the money that they're paying monthly for Netflix. Y' all could be putting that into the budget for the movie that you actually want a one time payment and you get the season three of the Vince Staples show.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why does Zack Fox not have a movie like, you know.

[B]

Yeah, Nah, exactly. I think that these people are extremely aware of how expensive it is and maybe don't. There's. Hollywood is like a machine, right? But like when you are beloved by this machine, it's like anything. It can make anything. Oh, yeah, it can make anything. And it's like, now you're gonna ask me to recreate like the process of this machine. I don'. I just was a part of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't want to build the motherfucker. And it's extremely. Then there's also public perception where I don't want to be asking the public for money. You know what I mean? But I think somebody like Vince Staples, especially with his rhetoric, if Vince Staples was tomorrow, was like, you know what? Fuck Hollywood. I'm finna go make season three of Vince Staples on my own. We gonna crowdfund it, bro. Do you know how many people would throw money at that?

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

I know, I know. I got a cool dub for you.

[A]

Exactly. I mean, look, look, I got a

[B]

good ass dud for you right now, boy.

[A]

It's basically what little Russell is doing. Like, I feel like I'm like, filmmakers need to be studying the Russell.

[B]

And then another thing, everybody need to be studying. Everybody needs to study LA Russell. But also, here's another thing. How many, how many people in Hollywood are going to say, well, shit, here go $10,000?

[A]

Well, actually.

[B]

Well, I mean, this is why if you've been staples, if you've been staples, I think from the perspective of a Kyrie Irving, I thought 10,000.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Somebody else will throw. Oh, nigga, Wesley Snipes might get a N50 racks.

[A]

It's like, even in, even, even in my.

[B]

I'm just saying, like, real rap, like,

[A]

I ain't giving it to the irs, but I'll give it to you. Yeah.

[B]

Shout out to all my niggas who evaded taxes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, you get. You gave niggas a good run. You balled the fuck out.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah, but you're right, though. It's like there are people with money that would get involved. It's like, it's just a grassroots movement. It's like how the Panthers were getting money. They had. They like, you know, they didn't just have money, they had money. They had support. They had support from people with money who were like, all right, we gonna, we gonna get involved or whatever. I mean, they tried to, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't. It was some rich niggas that was trying to get what's called Up Newton to Cuba. So, like, you know, there was all these. They have allies. So it's like if you now have. If you have a movement, whether you're an independent artist and you are someone who has a attention, you know, people with money who, you know, millionaires who will be like, a thousand dollars is nothing. 10,000 is nothing. Like, I have an investor who, for A Nightmare on Malcolm X Boulevard, even just to show what's possible, like, just from sharing the project and talking about it on the Internet. Like, so many people who I've looked up to and admired, you know, since growing up have been reaching out to me, like filmmakers, actors who are like, I love what you're Doing I want to be involved. Or like, is there a role in the movie? Or, like, you know, I have one, one CEO of a company who's like, here, I'm gonna give you. I'll give you the funding. I'll give you this much money for the movie, and I don't need anything in return. I just believe in it. To him, that money is nothing. This guy, he got money, you know, so it's like, yes, there are people that would give the money. You know, you don't need one studio to give you all this. Spike Lee, Malcolm X. That's how it got. That's how they finished the movie.

[B]

I think that there's an idea that, like, we're asking crowd, the crowd to fund it. And niggas look at the crowd as broke. Yeah, but we don't understand, like, rich niggas are in this crowd, too.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Because if you. The amount of DMs I get from people who are in entertainment, in sports, in, like, very high, prestigious spaces that don't feel like they have a voice in those spaces. Like, bro, I'm so, like, you speak for me. Cause you saying the shit, only thing I can do is share it to myself.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But I can't say that shit. But I can damn sure share that bitch and that.

[A]

But that's the thing. It's like, how, you know, I feel. We go. We go all over the place, which. That's how I talk in general.

[B]

But, like, that's literally what this place

[A]

is, and I love it. That's why I'm like, this is the perfect place. But, like, ain't no agenda.

[B]

But like, no, no, straight up, nigga. I have no agenda. It's like, you want to come talk, let's talk.

[A]

I ain't writing no questions.

[B]

Like, bruh, I kind of want to, like, but I think. I think naturally, I'm a conversationalist. I already got my idea, like, what I want to ask and what I want to know, but it's going to go where it's supposed to go.

[A]

Exactly. We can't control it. But, like, I feel like people. Now I lost the point that I was.

[B]

You shouldn't have broke it up, bro. You shouldn't have addressed it. You shouldn't have never said nothing about it.

[A]

I got out the flow state.

[B]

I will ask you this. I was curious or something. I'm curious about is that because of what your stance is and like, fuck Hollywood Productions is a statement. It's like everybody who's on board with this has to be on board with that. Is there, Are there people that want, that you would want to be a part of films that's just like, ah, I gotta stay away from it. And like, what's the process like for finding actors, actresses, key grips, like, all these different roles and they got that they list on the credits.

[A]

I mean, you got to first call up the Illuminati and then can we, can we have Brad Pitt, please? I give up. My cousin.

[B]

I got 25 Adrenochrome.

[A]

No, but like, but so again, I feel like every. Because the question you asked me in the beginning was like, okay, you know, how did I get to the whole fuck Hollywood thing? And it's a. The whole conversation is gonna be the answer. But I feel like with getting like, there are people who I've asked to be involved with my music in, you know, my films and stuff who have been like, I love everything you're doing, but I can't, you know, I. I can't. I just can't. Yeah, like, my team won't let me do that. Like, and that's the crazy thing. Like, I have. There's one, like, you know, creative director of like a actor that I've been talked to and she's just like, she's in Hollywood and stuff. And so just like, literally the amount of people that I know who, like the, the people around them are telling them, you can't say this, you can't do this. Like, you're literally a, a slave in that system. And so for me, even. And then even just like the pro, like how I was saying, to get a movie done or finance, it's like so many people have to sign off on if we can do this or not. And that's the same thing with actors. Like, an actor might want to do something, but their manager is going to say no, or their agent's going to say no, or especially if you don't go directly to them, their team can just be like, no. But the whole time, this actor never even knew about the project. And then you could tell them personally and they're like, oh, shit, why didn't you. I would have did that. Now they get mad at their team.

[B]

So, yeah, in Hollywood, they like, yeah,

[A]

you know, yeah, they try to keep. It's like they try to keep the talent, they keep the creatives apart. It's like, let the agents do the talking and the agents are going to set up a meeting and this and that. But that's what I love about, like, the social media era, where I could just get direct. Yeah. Like, I mean, how we got in touch. I literally posted on my story, like, somebody get me in touch with Deontay Kyle. And then you responded. Or like, you know, I'm sure there's people who just reach out to you and then they end up on the show. So like, for me, that's how it's been with the movie. Like how we got Alana Glazer. I just texted her, I was like, hey, you want to do like we. We'd already started building a relationship over the years, so it was just. It's just a friend, you know, for. That's the. Everything with Hollywood is like, I just want to work with my friends. I want to work with people that I actually with. If we're not friends, let's get to know each other and hopefully we can do something together. Because it's easier to get a friend to be like, hey, you want it

[B]

like again, this, this conversation, telling you, whenever yo production, I'm there.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You know, like, come be happy one time. Like, let me be in the grocery store with him, Cheese. You know, I'm cool with that, bro.

[A]

But that. And that's the fun thing for me.

[B]

I'm. I'm putting crack in the sandwich. What's that name? Who? What's the who? Just sure make all the sandwiches. Which dude, what's the man? Everybody know this man? Nah, the a. I'm putting drugs in your.

[A]

That's what you want.

[B]

Crack, Fentanyl, Do a mushroom sandwich. Come on. Take you through the moon real quick.

[A]

Are you putting the good drugs in my bad?

[B]

I mean crack too. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? All sales are final.

[A]

Nobody ever talks about crack being good. We talk about how bad it's been for society, but nobody talks about it was enjoyable.

[B]

Nobody talks about the longevity of these addicts. Nigga, you know, listen, listen, bruh, Every other drug is designed to kill. This shit gave niggas infinite life. Like eternal life. Super strength, bruh. Listen, I have seen crackheads do flips off of buildings.

[A]

Yeah, that's the first thing my mind went to. Like, you know how many times I seen a video of a crackhead jumping off of building?

[B]

Bro, the shit that would like. First of all, a healthy 35 year old can't take half those falls. Like that should put a nigga in paralysis.

[A]

Imagine if crack was legal. How the advertising would be. The marketing would be nuts. It'd be nuts.

[B]

Well, you gotta think about crack.

[A]

You could jump off A building and survive.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, no. It'll be AI'd out. It'll be just niggas jumping from

[A]

crack. You'll go to the moon.

[B]

Crack. Who needs parkour?

[A]

Parkour crack.

[B]

Yo, the crossover. The parkour nigga on crack is. Yeah, we gotta stay away from him.

[A]

The crossovers, the brand deals that would happen, the brands that would sponsor crack.

[B]

The way Coca Cola would jump all over there. Yeah.

[A]

McDonald's, Coca Cola.

[B]

We're back in the original. Like, we gotta be 21 and up to make the original Coca Cola Coke.

[A]

You know what's in it?

[B]

You know what the fuck going on? Like, Coke. Why does it taste like that? I can't feel my teeth. Yeah. I just think for me, personally, the transitions that I've had to make, like, from, oh, I'm just a nigga that drive trucks to, like, oh, niggas want me. Like, niggas want to be my friends. Like, niggas are like, niggas. I'm like, bro, this is a phenomenal album. Niggas like, yeah, can we be friends? Like, are we friends? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Are we cool now?

[A]

Literally, like, we could just talk.

[B]

Like, niggas be like, I ain't even tripping on the. I ain't even trying to be on the show. Nigga, I fuck with you. And it's like, that shit is, like. It's jarring because it's like, nigga, I'm living. I'm living, like, from one extreme to the next, where I, like, I was comfortable with the stability of being a truck driver. And I was like, now that I do this, as long as, like, I hide the company I work for, I pretty much say anything I want to say, and nobody can do shit to me. And then it was like, now it's like, oh, nigga, I don't even have to clock in nowhere. N. I just called Ferg. Like, hey, Ferg. Ferg, what we doing on this thing? What's that? Me and Ferg got such a. This nigga. Me and this nigga is running schedule. I'm sending this nigga times and dates at, like, 2:00am and I be, like,

[A]

hitting him right back.

[B]

He be right. I'm like, this nigga don't sleep. He just like, me. Nobody sleeps. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But for you, how do you. How did you make the. So what. What came first? Was it stand up first?

[A]

It was stand up and film. That came kind of at the same time because I was in. I was in high school, and I. You were there the whole Time. Which one? It was both, right? It was stand up in film. Film. Film. Damn. I guess you had to get submitted to nyu. No, but I was. I was already into stand up before film because I. Not before, but like, I was writing. I was writing stand up before I performed. Remember I had the notebook. Yeah, exactly. I couldn't get into the comedy. Like, I didn't know we were living in the suburbs in Georgia. I didn't know where to go perform or how to get into the whole stand up scene. But like, I remember. I don't know. I always liked stand up and movies. I was. Since I was a child, I wanted to go to the movies every single day. My parents were like, go by yourself. I was like, that's weird. To the point where that became my favorite thing to do. Like, I love going to the movies by myself. I was always watching like Def Comedy Jam and like the box sets when I was a kid and like learning the jokes and stuff. So it was always in my life. But it wasn't until like probably end of sophomore year or like junior year of high school where I was like, oh, I thought I wanted to go to Harvard and study math all this time and now. And I didn't even know what, what the hell I was going to go do with that. But I was smart. And then eventually my brother, my brother and Ken, my brother and our friends, they were always making music. And one of them was like, you love yo's watching movies. Like, why don't you just make movies? And I didn't know. I was like, what? You can't just go do that?

[B]

And then.

[A]

But then through that, I started making music videos for them, like, you know, for my brother and like our friends and stuff. And then, and then I also, I liked stand up. And I. And I wanted to. I didn't have the confidence to go perform it or tell anyone my joke. So I was just writing jokes in my notebook all the time. But then, yeah, so I guess film came seriously first and. But I knew I wanted to. I wanted to make movies. I wanted to make funny movies and I wanted to do stand up. So eventually when I went to college, I went to NYU for film school and I was like, all right, I'm doing film. And now I'm in New York. First thing I did was start going to the comedy. So I would just sit outside every day just watching the comedians, like, oh, shit, there's that, that one dude. Not even the famous ones. Just like, oh, the one niche comedian going in the club, whatever. And and then. But again, I didn't know how to break into it. So I started. I created, like, a stand up, like, club. Like, like how they have, like, improv groups or, like, sketch comedy groups. I started a standup group with another friend on campus, James Johnston. He needs to get his flowers. And we started a stand up troupe because we both wanted to do stand up, but we didn't know how to go about it. So we're like, all right, let's do it. Let's get all the other people who want to do stand up and let's go start performing. And we would do open mics in the city and stand up together. And that group ended up being like, Iowa dibbery. Well, she didn't make the team. She. I wanted her on the team, but the white people were like, nah. And I was like, we need a black person. They were like, we need a girl. And I was like, that's a black girl. But then we chose a white girl or something. And then so it was I. Ow. Debris. Rachel Sennit. Like, dudes that please don't destroy. That's on snl. Like, all these people that are now popping off. And I'm like, oh, shit. Damn. We all just started on campus together, just doing this shit for fun. So again, just working, just doing shit with my friends, Just having fun with my friends that started my standup career. Having fun with my. With my friends, started my movie career. Just directing shit. So. So, yeah, so that's why, like, now coming back to fuck Hollywood is just going back to how I started. Like, fuck. Trying to get into the, into the, into the industry of Hollywood. Let me just build my own shit with my. No shit on tooth with my friends.

[B]

My friends. I'm the.

[A]

My gold tooth. Not my real tooth. The cap.

[B]

Nah, real tooth falling out. Great clip. What a great clip. Yeah, he zoomed in.

[A]

It's happened on stage. I hate it.

[B]

Yeah. I think for me, I'm from a similar space where I love the collaboration of things. I'm not the, you know, the Kanye west, lock yourself in the basement and do beats. That's not appealing to me. I like people. I like to talk to people. I like small talk. I like collaboration. I think fun things come through collaboration. I think other people have great ideas. I don't need to be the only person in the room with a good idea. I think that I, I. Now I will say this arrogantly. I am gonna be like, I think my idea's better, but let's build on my idea. Like, let's not. This wasn't like, you introduce your shit.

[A]

I mean, that's like. It's similar as a director. Like, as a director, your job is. People think a director has to know and do everything on set. And it's like, no, I had this vision.

[B]

Yeah, y' all gotta help me make this shit happen.

[A]

It's like how they say Steve Jobs never built an iPhone to design. He didn't. He was the CEO who brought the team together.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And now we all build it together.

[B]

And essentially, he was a creative director for. Exactly. Because he's like, I have this vision. Like, can you imagine having, like, nerds at your disposal, nigga? Like, hey, put music in that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I'll be back in 72 hours.

[A]

And we got the money to do

[B]

it, and I'll be back in 72 hours, and it needs me, like, nigg, If I don't hear mmm bop in the next 72 hours, it's gonna prop somebody getting fired.

[A]

It's done. It's over.

[B]

And, like, also, too, Steve Jobs horrible father. You know what I'm saying? Great.

[A]

This is great. Capitalist.

[B]

Listen, man, we have to, like, start accepting the facts of life. You know what I mean? If you want the iPhone,

[A]

you want the iPhone. Some white girl gotta lose her daddy.

[B]

Like,

[A]

whatever you want. That's capitalism. You gotta give something to get something. You thought she was gonna have her dad.

[B]

You thought this nigga was gonna be a great father? Nigga, why giving you blue text message, boo. It don't exist, nigga. Can't get emojis and emotional intelligence, nigga. No, you don't get both. Nah, you don't get both.

[A]

You gonna lose. You gotta give some shit up.

[B]

That is fucking hilarious. I know. But I think for me, one thing that I've noticed, like, a theme of yours is that there's this system and this structure that I have to break into. And it's like, fuck that. I'm just gonna go build my own little system structure over here where it's like, the one thing I like about Even the Super Nigga short is just like, for me, this is well shot. It's not tacky. I hate tacky shit. So, like, yeah, it can have. I ain't tripping on her bootleg. But it can't be. Apparently, it can't be.

[A]

Unless if it's, like, intentional.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If it's ironically, like, Black Dynamite, they got the. The. The ups. And in that movie.

[B]

That's ironic, you know what I mean? Because. But, like, I'm talking about, like, from just like a film psychology perspective, you understand, like shots, angles, timing. All of that is, like, perfect. You know what I mean? And it still feels independent, which I like. Like, I don't need it recreated to, like, the same degree like a Sinners is gonna be. We don't got them editors.

[A]

Yeah, no, no, that's a. That's a whole different thing that requires a whole different. Different process.

[B]

We don't got them. Yeah, we got what we got. We got. You know what I'm saying? Adobe that.

[A]

And that's how the black.

[B]

And some great ideas, bro.

[A]

That's how the black exploitation era was. It was just like Melvin Van Peebles was like, I've made all this money for these studios and they're not trusting me to make this, you know, this. This movie that, you know. Sweet Sweet Backs, Badass Song. They don't trust me, so I gotta go do it myself and just use what I got. And, man, even just the process of him making that movie, there's a book, he wrote a book about it, you know, making the first black exploitation movie ever. And it's just his diary. It's just a transcription. It's just, you know, transferring his diary into a book form. So you see in every single date that this happened and this happened and this happened. And one thing, I don't know if it's in the book or the documentary about it, but either way, it's like when he was trying to cast one girl to play his love interest in the movie, her boyfriend got mad and was like, no, you can't. Like, he pulled up to Melvin Van Peebles was trying to fight him. Like, you trying to cast my girl and this and that. Like, have like a sex scene and this and that.

[B]

And.

[A]

And then they ended up talking about the movie and the. And he, you know, realized, oh, they need music for the movie. And Melvin Van Peoples ended up asking them to do the music for the movie. And that was the lead singer of Earth, Wind and Fire.

[B]

So it's like, right?

[A]

Like, that couldn't. That wouldn't have happened in the studio route. They would have been like, oh, we gotta hire this person to do the music and this and this and that. Like, all these happy accidents that couldn't come together and that. Same with, like, super nigga. Like, the dude in the first scene, that's my brother. And, like, people always like, oh, man, whoever that actor was, he's amazing. This and that. And I'm like, he wasn't supposed to be in the movie. It was supposed to be another comedian. That dude had to drop at the last minute, 24 hours before I was like, yo, can you do this scene? All right, come. And then he did it, and everyone was like, thank God that dude didn't show up, because it would have been fine, but this guy brought something new to it. So, again, just these little things where, yeah, if I was to rely on the studio, they'd be. If I was working with a studio, they'd be like, we got to get another big actor or whatever who probably isn't even right for the part, but it's a name that'll sell versus this person makes sense for the role, you know, and it's gonna. And they'll make the movie sell because it's good, not because there's a name, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it really is. Yeah. For me, it's just like, man, work with what you have. Like, forget what you know. Forget what you've been told you need. It's like how in New York, they voted. We voted for Zoron. You know, like, people didn't think that that was a. That was possible. And every day, like, you know, the world is a mess right now. Even New York, there's trouble. There's. There's shit going on over there. But, like, at least with the mayor that we have now, every day you wake up, like, if I just Google Zoron first thing in the morning, it's like, Zoron just installed a chocolate fountain in the park or some shit. Like, that's what it feels like. It's like every day, it's like. Like he's doing. He's delivering on that he said he was gonna do. And Versus. People thought we had the vote. Cuomo or Eric Adams. And they. We didn't think that you could have this other option, but then once you get it, you're like, oh, well, it's

[B]

actually gonna change the conversation of the country because they're trying to run that. Like, Newsome. Whatever.

[A]

Gavin Newsom.

[B]

Yeah. They wanted to be Newsome versus Vance. And.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like. Like, bro, y'.

[A]

All. Yeah.

[B]

Like. Like, in a real way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Gonna have to be on something. Like, man, these. Like. But when you see someone, it's like, okay, well, who are these democratic socialists? And, like, what are they all about?

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And who. Which one of them is running for president? And I think that when. When. When a system fails you so many times. Yeah. In such a mass way. Especially now. This is, like. This is a mess.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what? I Mean, and it's like. It's a mess to the point where, like, it almost doesn't feel like there's anything else to talk about.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And like, that part of it where it's, like, hijacked everybody's life is a thing where it's like, all right, we gotta do something different. And I know that, like, midterms coming up is very important for people. Voting is still very important. But, like, me, I'm an advocate for, like, yo, what's up, cuz? What's up with these niggas, bro? Yeah, we wouldn't let. We wouldn't let an everyday get away with no shit like this.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You know what I mean? But there's a lack of, like, like, community. And, like, I was talking about this today. The phone has, like. It's like simulated community.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Where it's like, we really do feel very connected to people, but until you touch these people, like, in real life, it's not real.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And it. And it also lacks, like, execution in a way. So. Yes, we can, like, generate a lot of ideas, but also, like, what we're doing is, like, feeding information into this thing that, like, generates enemies.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

You know, I mean, it's just like training bots. So it's like, well, also, like, let's find the. Let's find the chains. Let's find a weak spot. Let's find the things that make these people in mass angry. And, like, just constantly send them on a rabbit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, and then keep them destruction.

[A]

It's keeping them here so that they don't go out there and actually connect together and make the shit.

[B]

Yeah. Because there is no rage bait in real life.

[A]

Yeah, no, no. It's like, people just go about the day, hey, how you doing? Whatever. But you probably hate each other. And, like, you know, I don't know.

[B]

Things are very cordial when, like, the threat of violence is present. Right. So, like, I don't like you, you don't like me. It's like, you, like, if this nigga don't say nothing to me, I'm not gonna say nothing to him. Same thing. Because it's like, the threat of violence, like, it's like, I ain't gonna run from the fight, but, I mean, if we don't have to get into it, we won't. Like, you know what I'm saying? Because n understand what, like, this is the. This is a finalization of conflict where it's like, all right, after this, it starts over. Now it's more Extreme. Like, before, we just didn't like each other. Now I hate that nigga. Yeah.

[A]

I hate the way you live. I hate your existence and the energy

[B]

that you're gonna give to it is. Think about this. If we get. If you get a physical altercation, it's literally all you're gonna talk about for a week. So the amount of energy that you put into amplifies what the situation is. So for me, I always try to, like, encourage people. Like, if you are gonna be in micro communities, like, do it in micro spaces. Don't do it in mass spaces. You can't find friends. Like, find your people on the social media, whatever, but then find, like, places where you can actually, like, collaborate and connect outside of, like, the. The fuzz.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because if I'm. If I'm interested in what you're talking about, about this film, and I don't go and explore in a third space because we have digital third spaces. They're just everywhere that isn't social media. So if I go to your website and I go look at your crowdfunding, I go look at thing, and I'm reading, and I'm like, oh, okay, this is actually connecting me to this. I actually care about this now. Whereas if I stay in the fuzz, it's like, oh, that sounds cool. Swipe. Twenty swipes later, I don't remember what the fuck you was talking about and what film you was talking about.

[A]

And then it's like, you probably see another video about the film you see. Oh, it's got, like, a lot of likes, and there's that. So, oh, the movie's clearly doing well or whatever, but you don't actually know what's going on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you're not. It's the same with, like, politics. Like, yeah, you can see a candidate all the time, but you don't know if they're actually gaining the grounds that they need to be gaining. And you're not doing anything to actually amplify it because the numbers look good and the optics look good. But that's how you end up. Kamala Harris, 2024. Where it's like, oh, everyone thought it's gonna be a good race and this and that. You're blown out by. The whole country voted for Trump, but it looked like you were gonna.

[B]

It looked like, honestly, like, the leading up to the vote, especially those last two weeks, I was like, damn, she got a shot.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And then the election came. I'm like, God damn, what happened? The fuck was I looking at? Was that Games.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then this is when you. This is also what makes the echo chambers of the Internet very apparent. Because it's like, damn, everybody I know talking about, but how many fucking people don't I interact with where I ain't know? Like, this many people, nigga. What? That's insane. That means, like, black people was like, literally just talking to each other. We just talking to each other about this.

[A]

Hey, we got this, we got this, right? We got this.

[B]

It's in the world.

[A]

And then the media is pushing that narrative because they're like, yeah, okay, let's make them think everything's good, everything's good. And then, boom, you get the reality.

[B]

What is. What are some of the more difficult hurdles that you had to overcome as far as just mentality wise? Like when you make a company called Fuck Hollywood Productions, it is a very apparent. I'm closing the door on that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? Because not only, like on a personal brand or like, how they'll react to it, but if you go do a Hollywood film now, niggas gonna be like, see this? Sold out, man. This thing.

[A]

Yeah, that's. And that's the thing. It. I feel like I constantly am backing myself into a corner to where it's like, hey, you gotta prove you wrong. You gotta. You gotta stand on your business. Like, how much do you really mean what you're saying? Because, yeah, naming my company Fuck Hollywood, I've automatically been like, I can't just. I can't just sell this movie to a studio. And it doesn't matter, like, whatever studio can come be like, all right, we'll give you 10 million, whatever. I've just spent the last few years being like, nah, fuck this. Like this, we doing this this way and blah, blah, blah. It's like being a Democrat running, you know, on the, On a platform. And then you get in and it's like, all right, well, now let's do everything for the establishment that we said we're not going to do. So for me, which is very common. Everything, you know, it's like, I don't know. I tend to. I like, I like statements like the name of the company was. I'm named the company Fuck Hollywood Productions. When we, like hit our goal on Kickstarter for A Nightmare on Malcolm X Boulevard, which was just 50,000. It was. It's not the full budget. But at the time we had conversations with investors and this and that who were like, I agree, this much and this much. So we thought we were going to have all the money for the movie, we thought we had raised the $200,000. Over time, when it. It comes time to collect, obviously, people, you start realizing who's very serious and who's just, like, talking. But just even having that feeling made me be like, oh, shit. So I don't need a studio. I don't need the industry to make a movie. I literally just got the money for this movie by yelling on the Internet into my phone. And people rallied around it. So I was like, yeah, fuck Hollywood. Because this could not happen in Hollywood. And even now, like, you know, if I. It does it for me, it just doesn't make sense to work the traditional route. Like, as an artist, if I sell. If I sell a script, if I. If I want to make a movie with a studio, I'm doing all this work of creating the world. And, like, it's like how you say, I love marketing. I. I think about how this is gonna. How we're gonna get this message across all the. All the dope. I'm thinking of the whole picture, not just the. The. The movie. I'm thinking how we're gonna build a conversation with the people and make people care about this. So it doesn't make sense for me to be like, all right, I'm only gonna. I'm gonna get the smallest end of the stick when it comes to the money or the creative control or saying who can be hired on this film? Or whatever. So it's really just like. And I'm like, I can do it this way where I can do exactly what I want. Yeah, fuck it. So. And the thing. The funny thing is, I remember my dad was telling me when I was deciding on the name of the company, he was like, I don't know. Maybe you should think about it, because people, you know, they might blackball you. They might not like it and this and that. But most people that I come across in the movie industry who hear the name, they're like, y' all actually really fuck with that name. You're saying everything I want to say. So, like. Like, to me, I'm like, point me one person in Hollywood that is. That actually likes working in Hollywood. Like, it's all. It's always like, if they do, it's with a but. Like, oh, I like it, but, or I like it because of this. It's never just like, I love Hollywood. It's fuck Hollywood. You know?

[B]

Like, I think the thing is, is, like, we don't have a firm grip on, like, how powerful we are as creatives together. Because like you said before, it's a lot. There's a. There. There's a business of keeping creatives out of the creative process or away from each other where they don't, like, start making their own ideas. But you see this, like, in music. Music is the most, like, it's the most quick. Like, it's the fastest execution, right? Like, if me and you sit down and we both, like, think about an idea for a song, we can lay that shit immediately.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? It's very. No money needs to be spent, and no money needs to be spent. It's very accessible, which is why, like, music collaborations happen a lot, but they get shelved by, like, executives or record labels and things like that. And that's for competing interest or whatever the case may be. But I think we saw this a lot like in the 90s, where late 90s, early 2000s, like Limp Bizkit and Method man get on the track together, and it's like, this is one of the greatest fucking hip hop songs ever, nigga. I didn't think that these two would do that. But, like, this is where you, like, the freedom of collaboration. Like, this could have been just started over a blunt.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

But now it's like everything, every move has to. Especially because the state of the economy, the state of the world, the state of how consumers are spending money, it's like everything has to be justified by will this make sense for our shareholders? Will this make sense for the label and this and that versus, like, what happened to people just doing shit just cause. Just cause it was fun, you know? Like, there's so much shit that we would. My music would not exist if I was signed to a label and had to show them, hey, okay, so I made a song called you a coon. And do you guys think it's gonna be on the radio and like, be number one on the charts and this? It's like, it don't matter, bro. Just put it on TikTok, put it on the Internet. Hundreds of thousands of people go, love it all over the world or whatever, so.

[B]

And you own all the rights to your music, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that shit finna be the intro for it.

[A]

Exactly. There we go.

[B]

We gonna scrap the normal intro. It's very. The one and only time that we won't use our traditional intro because most people that. They don't own their music. So I can't. I don't get flagged, nigga.

[A]

Exactly. For me, it's. I Own everything. And that's why I always looked at the SoundCloud era, like when all them SoundCloud rappers were popping off and you know, SlumpGod XXX. And for me, that era, I was like, when is the film industry gonna have our SoundCloud era where it's like to be tried. I mean. Yeah, but. But the thing is, it's like. I don't know. I think that's. I don't know. I guess it's like, yeah, there is the movement of people who are making to be movies. But now my question, and this is, I gotta be careful with how I say this because I never want to shit on any. Any filmmaker, especially black filmmakers, because I know how hard it is just to make a movie and get a movie done. Whether it's good or not is another thing. But like, there are a lot of dope shit. There's a lot of dope shit on to be that people say, I found some dope shit on to be. But I think there's also. Because it's. I guess it's. It's. It's a. It's a. It's the new wave of like, everyone's just jumping in. Even people that don't really care to be filmmakers. Some people just doing it for the money, some people doing it because they see it as a path towards actually starting a career, which is great. So for me, I'm just like, at what point do does. I don't know if it's like. I don't know because now, now I'm questioning myself where I'm like, what does Tubi promote versus Because Tubi is known. There's a. There's a reputation of Tubi movies being terrible and like stereotypical and whatever. But there's also people who are making other things on Tubi and I guess maybe their shit just isn't going viral or isn't getting the recognition or whatever.

[B]

Well, it's. Cause it's like ironic to laugh at bad shit.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

The movie is so bad that it's fake.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I think that the conversation is not being had. That is a platform for independent filmmakers.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or, you know, or the possibility of you having your shit put on Tubi versus Netflix is like, the probability over here is so high. And I think that if people just change their perspective on. Would encourage a lot more filmmakers to host it on that platform. Because here's the thing. What do you want ultimately? You want it to feel like an official film release which most people are not going to watch. Films on YouTube. Because it's YouTube. So it's meant for, like, it's not meant for feature films. Like, that's just the mentality. People take to it.

[A]

So.

[B]

But you also want it on your phone or you want it on your computer or you want it on your tv. So tubies there, you got a built in streaming platform for that and it's free.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? You might have to endure a few commercials, but like, that's tv.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I. Dude, I was, you know, I was becoming like such a bit like I was. I felt like I was getting paid by To Be last year because I. My whole Twitter was like, man, we need to be focused on to be. To be. To be. To be. To be. To be. Like, to be. I was like to be supported more Black filmmakers than a 24 and neon. Like, it's like literally so many black people are making money off of that platform, getting their films on there. But like, I don't know, I think people need to shift their mindset around. Like, it's like decolonize your mind. Like, forget about it has to be on Netflix or it's got to be in a theater or whatever to be. Like I said, it's a platform and it's the fastest. It's the fastest growing streamer, especially young black audiences. Like I was saying, it's free. So if you can get people to come to your TikTok or to your YouTube, then imagine if you put a movie on Tubi and you got your hundred thousand followers or like million followers and you're getting paid. You're actually getting paid.

[B]

And you came on stage, bro.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Came on stage, just dropped the series on there.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And like, nigga, I know people personally in that. Like, that shit is crazy. I know people that came up off of TikTok that are in Kev Onstage productions. And you know, I mean, he's been here, so it's like he's obviously super tapped in with what's going on and like, whatever the new wave of creatives is. And you know, at one point that was his job, was to find talent. And now he's like created a lane for himself where he can actually make that talent mean something. And I think, yeah, I think it's gonna take a lot more credible people, right? Like. Like somebody like yourself. Somebody like a Kevin stage putting a series on there instead of waiting on a Netflix, instead of waiting on a Hulu or whatever the fucking case may be. And then I think the other thing that people don't think about is accessibility. What do kids have? They have accessibility to all these apps. What they don't have accessibility to is money. That's why it's a winner, because I don't need to ask my parents to sign in. I don't need to ask my parents to sign up. I don't need no money. And so it's like, literally it's just downloading the app and putting the email in and I'm here. And so this also gives them access to classic films. This gives them access to modern film, but also like popular series. Yeah, this. This is like a library. It's a free library of film.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what it also can allow people to do is discover new things. And I think if marketed the right way, especially someone like you, it's like, yeah, I did the Kickstarter, so you know, the. The film is free.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To make in that part. Of course, there's a marketing in the ground that it takes to do it, and then you have to get it shot and everything like that. But what I'm saying is, like, the direct to consumer feature is there, right? And if it's like, if it's on tubi, it's like, oh, nigga, I'll go check that out.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, because that's the thing, because

[B]

I don't want to watch a movie on my phone. It's just me.

[A]

And then it's like, okay, I gotta get up and go to the movie theater to watch this movie that I don't know. I don't know anything about this filmmaker.

[B]

Very low. It's very low stakes.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

And I think the thing that we, the modern consumer wants is like the lowest stakes possible because their convenience is paramount.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like, you got ordering food to their house. Like, it's literally, even if it's not

[A]

good, never been to the restaurant ever.

[B]

You see what I'm saying?

[A]

But I order from it every day.

[B]

I'm. I'm even willing to take a decrease in quality just so I don't have to leave my house.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So this is like this issue with society. I'm trying to get off the doordash, but it's not gonna happen.

[A]

That's the thing. It's like people. People need people. People want to be a part of what's popular, what's cool, what's known and whatever. So even like, with to be, it's like if you say your movies on to be, people automatically start thinking of the worst to Be movie they've heard of or this or that. But I remember, like, I remember I tweeted last year where I was like, I said, you know, we. Something about, like, how more black filmmakers need to be putting their movies on to be. Like, focus on to be. And we just need to up the level of quality on Tubi. And that was met with a lot of love and also some critique where people were like, I love the. That's on to be. I love, like, how the Grinch stole. How the. The who stole Christmas or whatever. But then I also watched Stepford Wives or I watched this, and I'm like, that was also dope. Seeing the range of, like, what people are watching.

[B]

It's a lot of flash on there. Yeah. You know Indian in the Cupboard. I haven't seen that movie since, like. Like, what song? I Was a Fucking Child.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You know what I'm saying?

[A]

So it's like, it is this platform where it's like, there's range. You can watch anything and it just shows, like, wow. Like, people watching this hood movie, they're watching this. They're watching Love Jones. They're watching this, like, classic, like, Hollywood movie or whatever. So it's really just. People gotta get over the, I don't know, the reputation that a thing has and focus on, like, what can it become? What can we build it into?

[B]

And honestly, without niggas, you wouldn't know it too. That's just real.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

It would just be another thing on your phone. Like, it'd be like, fandango. Like, I don't know what that is, what the fuck that is. And I'm not clicking on it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cause ain't no niggas on it.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? Like, that's my whole shit. If there's no niggas, then, bro, what I'm doing over there, you know what I'm saying?

[A]

I don't want to be the only one.

[B]

The only nigga over here. Fandango. You know what I'm saying? The thing is, is that that's the cool. That's the power that we have in, like, our marketing is literally the fact that we are the standard for what's cool. So if we just say, like, yo, we over here with this, even if it is a horrible movie, we're. We're like, now it's like, oh, it's a comedy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? Like, you may not have antenna. You may be a serious film.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, nigga, this shit is hilarious.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think for. For more than anything, it's gonna take, like, what you said. It's like marketing, the understanding. But I think we need a how. How things work. Like, I think on a very basic level, we need to understand that streaming services work on film licensing. If I can buy the license to this film, I can host it on this platform. So it's like, well, why don't you get this one? And I don't have a license today. Like, I have to literally. Do you know how much they charge? Nobody charge. That's why you. You know what I'm saying? That's why HBO will have centers on there and things like that, because they can afford the license to host it. And I understand.

[A]

Sorry. It's. It's.

[B]

No, it's. It's great.

[A]

No, it's like, I feel like people. It's like, how. Now, I think that's also why the value of art is going down where, like, nobody really pays for music because we can have everything for the price of $5 a month. So it's like, I don't. I'm not buying this album. I'm not doing this or whatever. Same with movies. I got a million movies on my. On my laptop because of Netflix and this and that. But people don't know. Like, I saying, they don't know the licensing deal. They don't know what the artist is missing out on by you going that route versus going directly to them. There's a lot. And again, this is why Hollywood is the way it is, where it's like, they don't want this information. They don't want people to know why this is like this. Or why creators can't make this, or why, like, we're not getting these kinds of movies. It's like, just shut up and let's keep the information quiet so that we can keep the money flowing, you know, versus for me, with everything I want to do. I'm all about grassroots. I'm like, grassroots cinema, where it's like, the way we're marketing the movies, the way we're funding the movies, and also educating people about the way that we're making it so that they can learn how to make movies themselves. Like, all right, this is how we raise the money. This is how we shot the movie. This is how we edited. This is how we got it in theaters. Like, there's a. There's this one group of white kids. Well, they're not all white, but white kids, because they're not black. So. All right, this group of white kids like is this iterational group of like Gen Z content creators who started their own, like, independent film studio called Creator Camps or Camp Studios. And they made a movie in 100 days for $100,000. And these are like 20, 22 year old kids. And they took it on tour around the country and like, I think like six major cities sold out screenings and then use that to then get the movie in independent theaters for like a small run. I think like 60 theaters. And over time, you just kept building the audience for the movie online to where it expanded, I think to like 500 theaters. And I think now they're working towards getting it in theaters in Europe. So. And there's no stars in the movie. It's all just like content creators. And they'd never made a movie before. But it just. And, and the thing why I connect, why I brought it up is because everything that they're doing, they're explaining it, they're putting out all their, their decks, their treatments of like, this is how we got our movie in theaters. This, this, the deck that we were sending to all the theaters. This is the information we have to give. There's the metrics. And I'm like, more and more people need to be doing that. Like, literally give the information, educate the audience, educate the creators. Because that's how, I don't know, people start understanding, like, oh, this is why you're making a Kickstarter for your movie instead of going to a studio. This is why your budget is this, this is why you know you're doing this or whatever. Because if people don't know, then I don't know, there's less reason for them to care, to support, to get involved, versus if they're, if you're sharing the information, they feel like they're a part of it or they're at least learning something. And that's exciting. So I'm like, give everything, educate the audience. And that's also how we avoid ending up in a society where, you know what we were talking about at the beginning with like celebrities, where you have all these celebrities that we're supporting and we don't. And then we start finding out that they don't stand with the shit that we stand for. They don't actually have any morals or any backbone. But like, if you actually were the way, if we go this route where it's like, all right, let's actually talk to y', all, that's actually give y' all information, let's actually tell y' all what we think beyond even this movie, then it builds that trust to where, man, we can make 50 movies together, and the audience is going to keep growing and growing to where maybe it's not. We don't require crowdfunding anymore. Or, like, there's, like, how you're saying there's, like, 10 rich people in the. In the audience who are like, all right, we want to be the board on your studio or whatever. So literally, we have to be educating people on absolutely why things are this way. Why not? And that's.

[B]

Well, because the mystique of Hollywood is the gatekeeping of information. So it creates a lack of access. And the easiest way to build a platform on social media is to give information.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's literally what it is. It's like, if people feel like, I'm learning something from you, I'm obtaining value from you, and even if I don't give a fuck about movies, but I love movies, or I don't want to make movies, but I love a film, you telling me the behind the scenes, the ins and outs, you pulling that fourth wall away, that's kind of the society we live in. Niggas don't want that fourth wall no more. Because what it is is, like, man, we see what y' all was doing with that fourth wall. Yeah, that's doing a lot of. A lot of nefarious things with that fourth wall. So I think the transparency is that transparency and information is, like, literally, like, where everything is at right now. People want to see people putting in effort, like this low effort, like, oh, I just, you know, it's that easy.

[A]

What's cool about that? When everybody else is broke and they're

[B]

working hard as shit, you're like, I got it, dog. You know what I'm saying? Let's step back three from half court. It's like, yeah, it's not real.

[A]

That's the whole idea of, like, you know, that's why the mystique of the American dream is even, like, it's all

[B]

crumbling, and as things crumble, we have to, like, reshape what type of. As, like, pillars start falling. It's up to us to, like, decide what pillar we want in place of that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, it's not just like, we can't wait until it all crashes down and then go through the rubble. It's like, no, that pillar fell. Like, what do we want in place of that? You know what I mean? And information is so accessible, and it's like, you really don't really gain any value from, like, keeping information from people because 99 of people not going to do shit with the information anyway. And the 1% of people who will do something with the information is going to show you love because you're the reason why they, they, they got the information in the first place. Like, I shout out to this, this girl Felicia for the win literally all the time. She broke down the TikTok algorithm for me when I was like, I want to go viral on here. I want to, I want to, I want to create content, but I want it to matter. I don't want to just get stuck at like 2, 300 views. She literally broke down like what the algorithm, like, pays attention to, what it responds to, how frequent you should be posting, what milestones you have to hit before you start even getting any traction. Like, she literally broke that shit down like a, like a math equation. And I just followed the formula and my shit was going. The thing that it made me focus more on is what do I want to go viral for? Okay, If I know I'll go viral by the time I hit 50 videos, then what kind of content do I need to make? And so when I do actually go, I go for something that I want to be known for. Yep.

[A]

And nothing cost her anything.

[B]

She didn't cost her anything.

[A]

She didn't lose nothing.

[B]

And now her and her husband run a successful business in New York where they do, they, they, they do like pop up lectures at bars. Yeah, like fucking professors, like real accredited professors come in and do lectures.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

As you have a beer, shit is lit.

[A]

But see, that's the thing. That's why it's like when, you know, I'm always like, I don't understand gatekeeping. I think it's, it comes out of insight insecurity because people are like, well, I can't tell you how I did this because then you'll start doing it and then people gonna stop forgetting about me and they're gonna pay attention. But it's like you, you're, it's like with the whole tick tock thing, like your algorithm is different from my, Your for you page is different from my for you page. You probably follow someone who's got millions of followers all over the world who I know nothing about, and I follow someone who's got millions that you know nothing about.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

It just shows there's enough audience and

[B]

money for every people. First of all, none of you have 8 billion followers. So at the end of the day, you.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? Like, what are you, what are you gatekeeping? You don't have every on earth following you. Like you said, bro, I be seeing people like, like it'll be like this person followed you and the blue check. And I go, they're like, they have 8 million followers. Like, I've never heard of this ever.

[A]

I don't know who you are, but to somebody else, this like, they're eight

[B]

millionaires, you know what I'm saying?

[A]

That's their dude, you know.

[B]

Who is this nigga?

[A]

Who is this?

[B]

How the fuck did I just find out about when you followed me?

[A]

And he probably been popping for years. For years. And he didn't know.

[B]

I think the thing is, is that information is so readily available. And I think that people want the easiest access to the information. But what they want to do more than anything is it's embedded in us to learn from experts. It's embedded in us to learn from a scholar. It's like the classroom mentality is that if I. If you talk to me with enough conviction and enough research and enough. No, bruh, I'm tapped in with you. I'm locked in like. And I think the thing is, is more people want to learn, but it's just not in the traditional setting. And they also don't want traditional information. They don't want like standardized information. I want to know the ins and outs of a film.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Even if I'm never gonna make one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's still interesting.

[A]

Exactly. It's like, it's like. I mean, I'm not huge on sports, but like whenever I am around people who know about sports, it's like, damn. You know all the statistics and this and this and this is like.

[B]

That shit is cool. Yeah.

[A]

You're not trying to own a team or nothing. I just care. I like this.

[B]

I think that like we like. I think that humanity has been optimized for value.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Instead of like just for fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I know these niggas stats because I like this sport, not because I'm a fucking coach.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

I don't have to have any stake in the game. I'm also like. Even if like, like you know a lot of. No more about sports now because they betting on that. But I mean it is what it is.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You get your heads like. Exactly. But it's like, man, you, I don't know, people. Again, just going back to what happened to people just doing. Just for fun. Just cuz it's like it's not to make money. It's not to. And it's like money. Like. I remember I was Asked one time, like, you know, on a panel where it was, like, me, the CEO of Kickstarter, Lana Glazer, and all these people. And so we were talking about independent filmmaking. I'll be professional. It was a panel that Fuck Hollywood Productions did, and we were in promotion of my movie A Nightmare on Malcolm X Boulevard, and we're talking about independent filmmaking. And one of the questions was like, you know, do you guys. Does this thinking about making money affect your creative process or whatever? And I was like, I don't. I don't really think about is this gonna make money ever. You know, it's like, I just think about, do I like this? Do I care about this? Do I want to experience this? Because if I do that and I do it as best as I can in my head, I'm like, yeah, that should make money. It should connect with someone and it should have some kind of result. But, like, I don't. I. I don't know, like, to project, like, yeah, this is gonna make $50 million, whatever.

[B]

That shit is strange to me, you know, I think money is just a byproduct of hard work and, like, you know, visibility too. Visibility has a big part to play in it, but I think the visibility comes, like, with effort. Like, I don't. I don't really see these airing. You got to give a fuck about it. And it's like. It's a reward system, you know? I mean, if you. I think that we've seen a lot of, like, nepotism in these spaces where we feel like we're X'd out. And I think that the further we get away from standard structure, like, Hollywood is a thing that didn't exist 200 years ago, so it might not exist 200 years from now. And I don't think that people think about it like. Like, there can be a replacement. You know what I mean? Like, everything that. Just because it's been around the longest doesn't mean it's the best version of this thing. It really makes it archaic. Because we also talking about this being formulated at the time of, like, Jim Crow, nigga.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, women couldn't vote, nigga. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the first, like, one of the first big films in Hollywood was about, like. Like the clan.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, the first blockbuster. The first is, like, about the clan.

[B]

We're talking about this Hollywood.

[A]

That's the thing.

[B]

Banking on my futures.

[A]

People always say, like, you know, hollywood's broken and we gotta fix it. I'm like, hollywood is not broken.

[B]

It was made. Exactly. It's working. Exactly, exactly. It's like the system's broken.

[A]

Like, no, it's broken when we fix it.

[B]

Like I was telling the homies, like. Like my little cousin was talking to me about he was a man, you know, I'm trying to stay out the system. And I was like, you're on probation. This is the system. Yeah, you're in it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't care if you're going to work every day. You think you're beating the system. You're in it. They got your name. You got. You got an appointment and a drug test next month. You're in that.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

You want a number? You know what I'm saying? You in that, bro.

[A]

Gotcha.

[B]

Yeah, they got you, bro. I'm telling you, that's a piss, bro. You're.

[A]

You're in it.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? As soon as you went down to the fucking county and they got your slap print, it was over.

[A]

Then it's over.

[B]

Yeah. That's why I don't give a fuck, nigga. Like, oh, they're stealing our information, nigga. I'm a criminal. I'm a criminal. What am I gonna do? But the thing is, they know every tattoo I got, all my aliases, everything. I can't hide from secrets. I'm making three videos a day. These niggas know me.

[A]

But that's the thing. Cause I think they probably got a

[B]

clone of me somewhere.

[A]

I think about that all the time. Like, I know I'm on some lists or something.

[B]

I probably exist in, like, San Pao, Brazil. Like, probably a walking around looking just. They just testing out the. They clone Tyrone features.

[A]

We gonna put it. We gonna ship to Atlanta.

[B]

Picture this in Portuguese pictures.

[A]

I mean, but that's the thing. It's like, man, I don't know. People gotta. You gotta break out your own. Like, you. You're.

[B]

You're.

[A]

You're stuck in it. And I feel like. I question. I question the idea of, like, when people are like, man, you know, like, how you said people, they're stealing our information. Whatever. I'm like, dog, there is nothing you can do unless you are living in the middle of the woods and have, like, no cell phone, no nothing, whatever. You're not talking to nobody. You've been living underground. Your information, they got it, bro.

[B]

They got it every day. Like, I think there's a. There's a. There's a healthy amount of paranoia that you need to like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Engage with the world in, like, you

[A]

know, you should question.

[B]

There's A standard of protection that you should have for yourself. And you should question everything. But you also have to be accepting of your reality. And I think a lot of people are like, very delusional in the sense of like, bro, you're participating. You know what I'm saying? You're participating. You every. Every time you fill out a job application, bro, you give them every bit of information you got.

[A]

Every time.

[B]

If you own a home, they got. They got you.

[A]

Every time you sign up for an app or you download something, you don't know what. Terms of commission. No, ain't nobody ever read those terms and conditions. They probably said, you gotta give us your Social Security. You gotta give us this, this, this, this, this, your first child. And whatever.

[B]

And what it is too is like. It's also like a social acceptance. If y' all all agreed to these terms, then what made me any different? You know what I mean? I wanna be. I wanna enjoy this app with y'. All. I guess we all accept the term that is coming.

[A]

The social contract.

[B]

Social contract. So, man. Yeah, man. Thank you for pulling up, though, bro. Morning, Angel.

[A]

No problem.

[B]

This y' all camera right here. Anything that you got right now to plug in websites.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What you working on and then how people can help with your crowdfunding.

[A]

Director daddy everywhere. Fuck Hollywood Productions, everywhere. Like I said, you tired of all the studios being in all the movies and all the videos and the scripts come to Fuck Hollywood Productions. But really, we're New York based. We're looking to collaborate with creatives. We're looking for new films to hopefully help people make. We're gonna start crowdfunding for a short film that we're producing called I'm not allowed to say it. It's like my Super Nigga, it's. Or it's like my experience of if I was to experience someone else making a movie called Super Nigga and I couldn't say super Nigga. It's called A Duel between D Y K E s. I don't know if I could say that word.

[B]

You can say it. It's my platform.

[A]

I'm not gonna say it, but. But that's gonna be dropping next month and then for now, it's really support A Nightmare on Malcolm X Boulevard. We're trying to. We're raising $200,000. We're at $60,000 so far. We've got Lana Glaser in the movie Me. It's an anti snow bunny hopping horror comedy about a struggling black comedian in the 1980s who marries his white girlfriend, moves into a brownstone haunted by slaves that her ancestors owned. And he discovers he can't make black people laugh. It's get out meets the Shinin'. It's dope. It's amazing. You know, like, this is why I say, fuck Hollywood. No studio is gonna make this. The movies that I want to make need to be made with the people. Because if a studio was to put. Put out super nigga or whatever, that would look weird. Yeah, some white people drop super nigga. Like, where did this come from? But if black people come together, put money together, and build this in public with the people, that's how we make exactly what we want. Unless you're Ryan Coogler and have the leverage. So we need the support of the people. If you can't donate, literally share the tick to share. Share the. The Kickstarter, share the link, comment, like, whatever. Even donate a dollar every little counts.

[B]

All right? Y' all know what we do. Power of a dollar. If it's 50, 000 people watching this, $50,000 could be potentially added to this man's Kickstarter. He got great ideas. I enjoy. I. I enjoy everything that you do. This is why I wanted you to come here. But I think also, you know, we in the creator collective, bro. We gotta. We gotta collab at all times. So you know what I'm saying? Episode 100 and something with my boy director daddy no Relation Hollywood Productions. Unless y' all want to give me a cameo on Tyler Perry film, shout out my FD signifier.

[A]

Y' all need to watch that video. It's just raps. I just want to rap.

[B]

I just want to rap, man. Yeah. They say without the proper labor, faith

[A]

don't stand a chance. I put my faith in faith instead on fertile land I pledge and it sees Adeline D turning the trees before rest in peace teas get printed to me.