Host (2:28)

Yeah.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (2:29)

And so that's my way of doing it by, by going through cases, but we mainly doing civil rights. So. Yeah, I mean, a case like that is definitely a case where again, you can easily, you know, bring a claim. And also, you know, not only do you bring a claim on that, man, but you try to, you, you, you try to get that apology that you desperately need. Because the bread is one thing.

Host (2:47)

Yeah.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (2:47)

But like, you know, being, being acknowledged for being wronged is, is something else, man, that we oftentimes don't get.

Host (2:54)

Absolutely. Well, if you ain't know, now, you know, we got Jerry Adams, Esq. In the building. Civil rights attorney, author, justice reform advocate. You are a nationally recognized civil rights attorney who turned your own wrongful conviction into a lifelong mission for justice. So at 17, you wrongfully convicted, spent nearly 10 years in prison after being, before being exonerated through the Wisconsin Innocence Project. And then you turned that into a career to advocate for other people who may have been wrongfully convicted.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (3:27)

Yeah.

Host (3:27)

What is, what is. Can we walk through some of the details of this wrongful conviction?

Jerry Adams, Esq. (3:32)

I'm a 17 year old kid. I'm hanging out, you know, with a couple of my guys. We go to a college party. You know, there's a consensual encounter and this Caucasian student lie, bro, that's really the simple story to it. Like, I mean like a bold faced lie. But the thing about it that helped in, in terms of me getting exonerated was this. We ain't just had to say it was a lie. Like the police knew it was a lie and they did an investigation and they got a police report where there was another white college student who vouched for us. I was like, no, that, that ain't happening, ain't true. They withheld that police report. So we, we didn't get it. So we'll go to a trial with our hands tied behind our back. I'm found guilty and it was devastating. Like, I'm not, you know, I, I ain't, I'm not gonna sit up here and tell you I got the story of, I'm out here trapping all of that type of stuff. You know, my, my grandmother and my mothers and my aunts, they kept, they kept me kind of close to the porch because I was the youngest grandbaby. So they had seen my cousins and everybody, you know, they, they own little situation. So they like, look, we gonna invest and give him the opportunity to really punch his way up out this boy. So for me to go through that and watch my mother, more importantly go through it and, and watch her feel guilty because she couldn't afford to get me an attorney. That, that's, that's the bead that draws to like why we do what we do and try to help what we can. So I'm going through this process. I'm the youngest cat because I'm 17, turning 18 in this super maximum prison, right. The way it works is when you get a certain amount of time, your time places you in your security classification. So if you get over a certain amount of time, 25 years or whatever it is, you finna be doing time with people who got 25 years of life, like that's just how it's going to work, no matter your age. So the one thing that scared me into doing what I'm doing right now is this. And it was never act of violence or something like that that I saw in prison. One thing that scared me was two things, but the first thing is this. So I'm the youngest one when I, when I first get in here, right? And everybody else is like mid, late 30s, 40s and stuff like that. By about my fourth, going up to my fifth year, bro, that whole joint was damn near us. 18, 19, 20. I literally saw the prison boom right before my eyes with the remnants of what the drug era was putting inside of that joint from 98, 99, 2000, 2001. Right now it's talked about, about mass incarceration, this and that and stuff like that. But when you be in there and you witnessing nothing but brothers like me and you come through the turnstile of that boy. Yes. It's just, it was, it was crazy.

Host (6:14)

What city and state is this? What city you grew up in?

Jerry Adams, Esq. (6:16)

I was, I grew up, born and raised in Chicago.

Host (6:18)

Okay.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (6:18)

So I was born and raised in Chicago. We go to the party in, in the bordering state of Wisconsin. So like you know, me and my guys would do stuff like we didn't like to be around in the neighborhood. Cause bro, like, like you would get shot or the police would, would be on you. So we would like go to different parties places. We ain't gotta turn our heads and look behind our backs, right. And so we pulled an all nighter, go up to this college for this party and it was like going to the Bermuda Triangle, man. Changed my life forever, bro. You know.

Host (6:43)

Well, I think as unfortunate as it is, it's not anything new. You know. You got the situation with the Gina 6.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (6:52)

Yes.

Host (6:52)

You got the Douglasville 5. When I was growing up in school, there was an entire situation, bro. Like, we protested this, we marched for this and everything.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (7:03)

Yeah.

Host (7:04)

I believe they called Al Sharpton out there and everything.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (7:07)

Yes. For the genus six, yo.

Host (7:08)

Yeah, Genus six. And a situation happened where I grew up in Douglasville, Georgia, where. Yeah, same thing. Like, they was partying. It was a, you know, it was a going our way party. Some of these dudes had scholarships, you know what I mean? And a consensual situation turned into a false accusation. There was video evidence that exonerated them.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (7:29)

Yeah.

Host (7:30)

You know what I'm saying?

Jerry Adams, Esq. (7:31)

Just think how many I often think about this.

Host (7:34)

This should go back to the plantation too.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (7:36)

I was just about to say that. Right. I was trying to struggle for the politically correct way to say it, but

Host (7:40)

you was like, fuck it. Hey, that's what I do.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (7:42)

Yeah, man, that's why I'm a fan of you. But that's what it is. Like these historical connotations that are placed on black men in a negative way, they have lasted way longer than the whips and lashes have lasted from the slavery era.

Host (7:57)

What about so upon release, right? Upon exoneration after 10 years. So this is you go in at 17, you get out at 27. So basically, at a time that's like very critical in young adulthood, where you're gonna be figuring out, you know, how to go and apply for a license or paying rent. The first time roommate. And, you know, you get your first job, you spending this time convicted, but you're free, you're innocent. And upon exoneration, or while you was in there in the process of exoneration where you already, like, when I get outta here, I'm gonna advocate for people like me. Cause what is that exoneration process like?

Jerry Adams, Esq. (8:39)

So look, I tell you. And so this part about it, I really go into detail in my book because I really wanted to discuss the part about how the exoneration process works. I think a lot of people are confused with the stories that do make the news of people out there. And you coming out to a crowd of people and they cheering and they happy and you think everything else is cool. So for me, my conviction was reversed from a federal habeas petition. Right. So the federal habeas. Is that federal habeas saying that the state that wrongfully convicts you is holding you here either without evidence or they withheld evidence. So when that federal habeas gets ordered, they order the state to immediately release you or retry you within 120 days. So I know that my conviction is reversed and it's. It's. I'm sitting. They move me from the joint to the county jail. So I'm sitting in the county jail and the whole process now is over. So now I'm. I'm considered to be innocent until proven guilty. I'm waiting in there, there. And they. They didn't give me a bond. Then when they gave me the bond, the bond was too high. And then I'm real. I didn't realize, but I peaked what they were doing. So they. The bail was so high. And then they come to me with an offer for time served. They like just plead to this, a lesser included and give you time served. So where they were literally trying to steal at that point, no, I didn't do it. And still get me to be in there and brand myself for the rest of my life just so they wouldn't have to admit their wrong and liability.

Host (10:09)

Right.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (10:09)

So I stood firm and sure enough, the prosecutor filed a motion to dismiss all the charges. And I remember my mother being in there with me. And I remember throughout the trial and I kept looking back at my mother throughout the trial because I'm in here being depicted like a goddamn animal, bro. And I'm like, I'm. I'm embarrassed. So I remember looking back at my mom and just seeing her burying her head and all of that. And then I also remember when the judge dismissed the case and slammed the gave him. I think me and my mom was expecting to be vindicated in a way that we were humiliated. And it didn't happen. Judge turned around, bailed on out of there. The district attorney got out of there and I turned around to my mother and I said, look, we not crying no more. We finna get our lick back.

Host (10:53)

That part.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (10:54)

And that's how I was like, look, that is when you ask the question. I took the long route to get there, but that's when I was like, okay, I can. I can understand the law now. And what I can do is I could take these difficult words and I could regurgitate them back to our people in a way that they can. They can feed off of it.

Host (11:10)

That part.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (11:11)

Yeah.

Host (11:11)

Yeah, man. When people ask me all the time about my, my. Like I was a jailbird for real, like when I was younger, and it was more so because I was on probation. So it's like you run into folks like you run into a situation.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (11:29)

Yeah.

Host (11:29)

You know, you. Hey, you on probation. You want to say you POVs all the time. Probation and violation. Probation of violation. Probation of violation. Like, violation of probation, whatever.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (11:42)

And

Host (11:44)

then I get new charges, which violates my probation to the point where. Okay, now you gonna serve this, and then we'll bring it back, start another one. Yeah, yeah. So the new charge, when I went to trial for that, that's when I was like, if I get out of this situation, I'm done with this shit. Because it wasn't about the jail. It wasn't about the fact that I was throwing my life away. These are things I thought about later.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (12:08)

Yeah.

Host (12:09)

I seen my mama in that courtroom and, like, she distraught, bro.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (12:15)

Yeah.

Host (12:15)

You know what I'm saying? Like, damn, These folk, they offering my baby 10 years. They offering it to him. They ain't offering five or two. And now. And she would have been fucked up about anything, but we starting at 10.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (12:26)

At 10, right?

Host (12:28)

And I think. I think it was just. It was the look on her face, bro. That shit fucked me up. And I was like, I'm doing this to her.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (12:36)

Yeah.

Host (12:36)

Like, I can make better decisions. Yeah.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (12:38)

So you resonate with that shit for real, when we talking about my mom and all of them. And then just in general, right, the pressure that's put on black women in general as a result of the men that they love and give birth to are direct targets of this system, man.

Host (12:52)

Yeah. And it's some. And so the thing is, it's a twofold thing where I'm making decisions that put me in this environment.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (12:58)

Yeah.

Host (12:59)

And you innocent. And get put in the same environment. And the system don't depict us either, a different way. Yeah. They don't differentiate between the two. It's like, black male. Young black male. Perfect for these conditions. Absolutely. And on top of that, like, what you were saying earlier about how you watched it go from you being the youngest to, like, that's just a common thing, is all these young men are being convicted and sent to prison, bro.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (13:29)

Check this out. So this. I told you it was two things that scared me. This is the second thing that. That scared me to death. So I'm in. I'm in the. In a joint, and I'm playing basketball, passing time and stuff like that. And, you know, usually, you know who can ball. So you're picking your team and all of that. And I'm playing with some new cats today that was out on the yard, and I'm hearing them, you know, call each other what I thought was nicknames. G Pops, old man, G Son. I'm like, oh, they from the same block. You know what I'm Saying, no, man. It wasn't until I got on a visit. My mom came to visit me and these three dudes was all on the same visit. And I realized that was a grandfather, a father and a grandson. That's three generations, bro, locked up in there for drugs. And now you could press a button and get weed delivered on the app.

Host (14:24)

See what I'm saying?

Jerry Adams, Esq. (14:25)

Crazy.

Host (14:26)

This is where I think oftentimes it's like black people in America pay the debt to society before they figure out how to make some money off of it.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (14:35)

That's it. That's it. And then what they try to do is. And these cats. So they had weed, but then how they got them with these crazy. Oh, well, he had weed in one room and it was a gun in the drawer in the room upstairs. So that's a gun and drugs together. Those are different enhancers.

Host (14:54)

And so the other enhancer is the drug free zones.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (14:58)

Yeah.

Host (14:58)

So I had Deray McKesson in here about two weeks ago and we talked about. What he does is map police violence. But he also talks about these loopholes in which they use to like hang us, right? Yeah. So the entire city of Montgomery, Alabama is a drugs violence free zone.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (15:17)

Yeah.

Host (15:18)

Because of how they create the radius around it. So. And this could be churches and schools and a couple of other different type of buildings and structures. But because of how close, how small the city is and how closely they are, basically any charge you catch drug related in Montgomery, Alabama will be enhanced to a drug free situation. And I think that shit carry three to five years just in itself.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (15:42)

And that's it. I mean, it just, it just. Look, here's a perfect example as well too, of how a felony for some ain't the same felony for others. Right. When you look at the current administration and you see that felony convictions or convictions in general, it don't take them out the game the same way it takes us out the game. I mean, there's a lot of. I feel like Atlanta is the black metropolis of business owners, you know what I mean?

Host (16:05)

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (16:06)

There's a lot of business owners that are held back though, because of records from the 80s and 90s. They can't get this license, that license. They gotta get this in their moms or their father's name. And I think that the tentacle of the legal system continue to reach man and wrap a noose around our neck in a way that it doesn't to our counterparts.

Host (16:25)

What are. When you speak about like some of these racial disparities and Things like that that you've seen in your journey as like a civil rights attorney? What are some of the, like, common things that you see? Like, what are some of the overlaps that you see? Or, like, common, like wrongful convictions that you see? Cause sometimes, like, when you talk about the Waverly situation, this is also a common thing where it's like, as long as the victim of this crime is white, we could pretty much throw anybody at this.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (16:57)

I mean, yeah, one of the things that I. That I see a lot and one of the things that I'm advocating for, and I'm about to start branding is retain black lawyers, man. Retain black lawyers. Because that Waverly case that you brought up is. It's a case where these guys trusted, you know, lawyers who were not from our fabric. And for them, they like, oh, well, you just pleading to this little time or whatever it is, not knowing that it was going to end up in a life sentence. And I think. I think one of the things that we need to do is, you know, as we raise, especially if you raise in the 80s, 90s and all of that, like your mom and everybody telling you, respect elders, respect this, respect that. Look, stop telling our kids to respect these authorities that are trying to do nothing but hurt them and start to tell them to do the things that they need to do to protect them, which is, I don't want to. I'm afraid to speak until I get a lawyer or my mom down here, bruh. That's it.

Host (17:53)

I'mma tell you, the first 48. The show.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (17:57)

Yeah.

Host (17:58)

Is a prime example of what happens when you just go in there running your fucking mouth.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (18:02)

That's it.

Host (18:03)

Because all them people, all they had to do was say, give me a lawyer and that shit will be over with right then and there. And you done confessed. Not only confessed to a crime, but you done implicated other people in this crime. All of that you done created, you did the job for them.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (18:16)

You helped them create the dragnet.

Host (18:18)

Yeah. And so for me, like, okay, another point is this dude fd, he used to, you know, be a social worker. And he would see, like, of course, like young black boys and certain their behaviors don't conform to like, what the system is just hyperactivity. Woo, do. Whoop whoop. And he had different interests. He was interested in piano. So he became true because he just didn't want to go to school. Yeah, he's being bullied, whatever the case may be. The truancy hearing came up. Basically they wanted to put him on probation. FD was like, look, we just need to get some social programs, put him in some social programs, figure out what his interests are, figure out how to like integrate him back into the education system and stuff like that. He doesn't need to be on probation. He doesn't need to do any of this shit. Right. Cause all this is going to do is funnel him into this system.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (19:10)

It's going to be the same situation you just explained.

Host (19:12)

Yeah, you know, exactly. And this is. And outside of my situation, I was actively doing this shit to myself. This young man just need. Maybe he needs some therapy. Maybe he just needs.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (19:24)

That's it.

Host (19:25)

You see what I'm saying? At the last minute his mom was like, no, I want him on probation. And. Cause she believed that the system knows best. Right. And to your point, you know when we talk about having to have these conversations with our kids about how to talk to police officers and keep your hands invisible. Woo woo woo. Like, all these rules we gotta play by. And in a situation like yours can happen where you ain't did shit wrong and you still do 10 years. And the thing that I find cheap about it is like, you can't get these people they time back. Not at all. You don't really apologize.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (20:03)

Yeah.

Host (20:04)

And you just throw em a check and it's like, shit, these niggas don't even know what to do with money. For real, these folks been locked up

Jerry Adams, Esq. (20:09)

the last 10, 20 years. And that's the misnomer too. Look, 90% of the people who go through what I went through, they don't get a check. I didn't get a check. I didn't get one. There are immunities. The law of immunity creates more legal loopholes than you think for authorities when you try to go hold them responsible. So just like, you know, the law of qualified immunity came up real big with Breonna Taylor. Right. So I'm gonna unpack that and basically just tell you what that means. What that means is if they do something to you, as long as they own duty and you can't prove that it's maliciously or intentionally done, you don't get compensated. And the, the, the definition of malicious and deliberate is different depending on which which folks is viewing it. Right. And so that's why a lot of people who get out, they don't get anything at all. And I think that the media confuses folks that get out, they're immediately gonna get some money. I'm dealing right now with a case in Wisconsin and this is not funny, but the unique and ironic Thing is, these are two white guys who were wrongfully convicted of a rape, a robbery, and a kidnapping of another white woman from a bar. Twenty some years later, DNA matched a serial rapist who was in the neighborhood. And. And they exhumed his body to prove that his DNA was the one found on the woman. They let these guys out, right? But in the state of Wisconsin, it's a cap of $25,000. Now, no matter how much time you spend in prison right now, These dudes are 70 years old, living off $25,000 because the state didn't compensate them. And we now are going to be getting ready to move towards the federal lawsuit, which might not. Which might. First of all, you don't know if you're going to win. But second of all, they take two to three years for resolution.

Host (21:58)

Shit. They might not just. Unfortunately, they might not be here to see an end of it. Yeah, um, I think it's unfortunate. It's not only unfortunate, but it seems intentional a lot of times that, like, I know a small percentage of prisons are for profit prisons, but the large majority of prisons would probably lose state funding or whatever their funding is if they don't keep people in prison.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (22:23)

Yeah.

Host (22:23)

So then it becomes a point where it's about a numbers game and someone like you getting locked away to them is just like, look, man, now it's on you to prove your innocence.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (22:35)

It's a head game. Look, and it's a process too, so folks can understand, because like I told you, I think my mission, man, is really taking these big Latin legal words and breaking them down so we can understand them. The process goes like this. Once you are found guilty, there's three, two to three different stages of appellate processes. Right. You only get afforded one with a state public defender system. Usually those are only issues that happen like at the trial when cases of people who are getting exonerated, they usually get exonerated because there is some newfound evidence at the newfound evidence stage. You on your own, bro. You can't. You. There is no afforded public defender or anything like that. So that's why it's important for organizations like that. I have like Life after justice, who is, you know, picking up cases, doing them pro bono. You weeding through and trying to help out as many people as you can. But look, it's created that way on purpose because the habeas petition that I told you about, that I came home with, right. You get two years to file it after a certain deadline runs. A lot of brothers don't even know that it is a lot of innocent brothers right now, today, who had. They just simply knew it was a deadline about the past and filed. They will be home. But they don't tell you that on purpose.

Host (23:53)

Yeah, yeah. It made me think about this situation where there is a lot of prison labor being contracted out to, like, public jobs or even privatized jobs, where they using this loophole of the 13th Amendment to create a slave class of people that they could just get free labor out of. And so even after 10 years, even after 20 years, and you get exonerated, you done contributed millions and millions of dollars worth of labor to these. To these, to this society, for one. And then for two, it's like, those aren't transferable skills.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (24:33)

They definitely not. And look, I was working. I think I had two jobs, and I know I did. And then they started putting me in the hole a lot. So I had.

Host (24:41)

Using a bucket, man.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (24:42)

They had me. Look, this. I just say this. I had to make sure, Right.

Host (24:51)

I ain't gonna hold you.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (24:51)

I'm saying that I was gonna get through this time. And the only way you could do that is when you start the time off letting everybody know you just, you know, you just ain't no games to be played. Right?

Host (25:02)

Yeah.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (25:02)

And then they started to put me in the hole because I was doing litigation on changing the Department of Corrections handbook. So I started going to the whole.

Host (25:11)

So you started being a lawyer already? I'm a lawyer.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (25:14)

And they told me they like, oh, he doing group resistance and petition. You trying to start a riot. It was just a bunch of nonsense and stuff like that. But I just. I think that, you know, amongst the things that I think that people don't really look at is this. Man, this thing is killing us, bro.

Host (25:30)

Yeah.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (25:30)

And it's affecting, you know, the health and wealth of our entire community. You know, when folks come home after 10, 20 years, what is home? Home is really wherever you're gonna be able to lay your head. That's usually Granny House, ain't he House. Your brother house Now. Now, that house. You know what I'm saying? It's taking on the stress of having to deal with that. I think one of our biggest things we need to tackle right now is both reintegration with an emphasis on mental health care and what that really is.

Host (25:59)

Yeah.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (25:59)

You know what I'm saying?

Host (26:00)

What does that look like for you as far as taking that on?

Jerry Adams, Esq. (26:04)

So with Life after justice, we created a mental health care pilot.

Host (26:08)

Right.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (26:09)

The Pilot is designed to treat people who've been through the criminal system, right? Because if you think about it like this, if you go and go to obtain your degree in psychology, you ain't gonna never find a section in the book that's related to us, the traumas that come with someone going through the prison system. So we've created a program that trains, you know, therapists on how to provide that therapy. And essentially, man, let me unpack that big ass shit. Just to say this right? When I got home and I was extremely angry, man. I'm looking around my guys and them, they ain't turning up no more, bro. They turning down. They got kids, they got careers, they got houses, you know what I mean? And I'm living on my mama's couch, man. And I'm 27, so it was just making me angry. And I didn't really know how to deal with that. So I started to go to therapy. And basically what it was allowing me to do was to first acknowledge that I needed to decompress and let it out right then also acknowledge that there's a rage that I have to be able to control. That rage can either burn me up or it can blaze a trail to where I am today. And I think when you look inside of our community with our youth, bro, I think that it ain't post traumatic stress they dealing with. They dealing with persistent traumatic stress. With all the things that are happening in the community. You got daddies and brothers and uncles coming home years later. You got constantly seeing violence. And I' ma tell you, man, if you raised in a house with people that yell, you gonna raise your voice without even knowing it. So when you look at the communities and you looking at so much violence happening and stuff like that, it's all surrounded around, man. Look, what is really mental health care. Mental health care is talking about your anger, your trauma, and what's really at pain in you.

Host (27:55)

Yeah, bro. Damn, that me up. Because I remember people used to be like, bro, why are you yelling? I'm like, nigga, it's how I talk. It's how I talk. But it's like, damn, I'm just used to shit being loud. Yet that was the hardest thing about. The hardest thing about transitioning out of, like, the streets and just the system, so to speak, and getting out of jail and like, really not wanting to be on probation and like, what does it feel like to be free and shit like that for me was the people that I dealt with was still doing it.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (28:29)

Yeah.

Host (28:29)

And so then it's like, shit. Well, in order to get away from Me, in order to get away from these circumstances, I'm here to get away from some of these people. It's extremely isolating, but it's also like quiet.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (28:42)

Yeah.

Host (28:43)

That goes to that.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (28:43)

Lonely at the top saying, yeah, bruh.

Host (28:46)

And one thing I've been trying to like, it's taking me some time too, but it's also taking me time even now, like going straight into the labor force just to tell like as soon as I like decided, oh, I'm gonna get my shit together, I had a kid and I, you know, like, I'm transitioning from one world to another in these different spaces. And I'm also having friends come home from prison, I'm having friends go to prison, I'm having friends die. And so it's all these different situations that's like, I don't even know how to be still for real. I'm never even thinking about what I'm doing presently. I'm always thinking about what's the next thing? What's the next thing? What's the next thing? Cause it's like, I was like, kind of keep yourself stimulated in one way or another. And I didn't even know how to be bored. Like, that was the crazier thing. It's like. So I remember when I was like 15, I had an uncle come home from prison. And of course we was at my grandma house all the time, but he stayed with my granny. And I don't think about the fact that I was uncomfortable with him being there because like, I don't know this nigga, man, and shit. You know what I'm saying? This nigga up at five in the morning doing push ups and shit. He cleaning up like he, he contributed to the household. It's just awkward. Like, yeah, like he got a little roller. He don't move the furniture, he just got a whole little workout situation going on, living room. And so I asked my granny, like, when he leaving, right? Yeah, like I don't know this, you know what I'm saying? Like, and the thing is, he 40 something, late 40s, early 50s. He been locked up 20 years, I'm 15. Even when he was free, I ain't on.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (30:24)

Exactly.

Host (30:25)

So the thing that you talk about made me think about this thing of like, nobody really give a fuck after a while, is it 10 years of your life get taken away, people might give you 10 months of grace. Is it Maybe.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (30:40)

Yep.

Host (30:41)

How long before the questions are like, man, when you gonna get a job? When you gonna do something with yourself? And like, even if they Stressed with you over those 10 years. They life was still going.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (30:51)

Yeah.

Host (30:51)

And so now that you free, they're like, all right, nigga, you got what you wanted. Like, when we gonna get back to it? Because we still poor.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (30:58)

And that situation, man, that's crazy, because, look, had you ever told that story before about your uncle and granny?

Host (31:02)

Nah, not really.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (31:03)

But see, that's what I'm saying, man. A lot of us be having that story, and I think that. That. That we need to share that story, man, and make it more comfortable for other folks to know, man. That should be happening in our community all the time.

Host (31:14)

It's a lot of people that come home, bro, and, like, the people that live in that house don't know them.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (31:18)

They don't know them at all. I mean, look, it was an awkward situation for me as well, too. Like, when I got out, I was introduced to my niece, and that just felt awkward.

Host (31:27)

It's weird, bruh.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (31:29)

You know?

Host (31:29)

And it's like, yeah, that's my uncle. But like.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (31:31)

Yeah, but you're like, man, hey, all I know is I heard about you. I know my grandma used to show me your pictures.

Host (31:36)

And this old. But he's strong as. Like, who is this nigga?

Jerry Adams, Esq. (31:40)

Yeah, yeah.

Host (31:41)

Oh, Strong in his house, man.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (31:43)

I really think that, man. Like, look, we need to start now focusing on that reintegration part, right? You know what I'm saying? Like, literally having something for Unk when he come home to decompress and all of that. Cause there are a lot of. A lot of that shit that just follows you, you know what I'm saying? From being. Being locked up period, in general, right? I think I get the tag of being loud all the time, just like you, but that probably come from yelling over prison and joint in county jails are loud as fuck.

Host (32:08)

Loud as fuck. It's when it get quiet, that'll get weird.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (32:11)

That's real.

Host (32:12)

It's like, what's going to happen? Something's gonna happen. What's going on? Well, so to your point, too, you being young, you being 27 when you get out, it's still like young adult. But, man, bro, like, you done mature. All your adulthood has been spent in one of the worst possible situations. Indeed. Going to the whole. Is the psychological effects of that. How long did it take you to reintegrate into society where you felt like you were a part of it?

Jerry Adams, Esq. (32:40)

Yeah, I think it took my mother and my aunties to really put it on me in terms of like, look, man, we see you doing nothing but working Running, you know, it's like you trying to catch up with 10 years in 10 days. Like you're not gonna be able to do this like that, right? So I remember I thought I was getting invited to a motherfucking French fry. I come over there, all three of them at a table. The only person was missing was Ayala.

Host (33:11)

You know what I'm saying?

Jerry Adams, Esq. (33:13)

They like, look, baby, we worried about you. We want you to start talking to somebody and stuff like that. And so it was really a struggle at first because, you know, we grew up in these neighborhoods where they like, oh, he crazy, or something like that, right? So it was just like a struggle of acceptance, right? But finally going through these sessions and stuff, you could, you could see the change of my anxiety, right? I didn't feel like I had to do everything at that moment, right now, right today and stuff like that. I also was, was, was deciding what to do with my anger. I think that it was that intervention by my mom and them, man, that basically started my process of, you know what? I'm out. You know, I need to put this thing in my rear view. And, and every day and every feet I move forward, that thing gets smaller in the rear view.

Host (34:01)

Yeah.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (34:01)

And that's really just the way that I, that I was able to do. And also one of them things like, man, I ain't never going back, you know what I'm saying? That old type of stuff. And just the motivation of being able, like I said, to explain to folks and talk families through what, what me and my mama, we ain't get that, bro. I had a public defender, you know, Ain't nobody explained nothing to me and my mother. We ain't understand none of this process before. We wasn't, no, no people who had a lawyer on call or nothing like this. So getting out. I remember like you was talking about with Unc, I didn't need an alarm clock, bro. I was up at 5:30, 5, 15 every day. And you know what that come from? Let me tell you what your uncle probably never told you. The bars break at 5am you better not be laying in that bed, sleep with them bars open, open, right? Better get up. Better either at least close that gate or get up and be awake because you don't know what's gonna happen, right? So that's why that internal clock is, is triggering to get up right now and stuff like that. Now I'm, I'm, you know, almost 20 years removed, right? And I got a two year old, so, hell, I ain't getting up at 5:00am Congratulations. I appreciate it. So. So, yeah, I mean, that's just what it is, man. They had a lot of things. And again, we not talking about it like that's the problem with it, man. We. We embarrassed about it, and we can't be embarrassed no more because this thing is the biggest thing that is crippling our society. And it trickles down to. You want to. You want to know why you see so much drilling and killing. I'll use examples of folk. You think about the old block, the King Vons, all of that, the little dirt. I think what's missing and what people ain't focusing on in the story is this, that where was both of their old men at one, One was dead. That was King Von's father who died. The other one was doing damn near a life sentence until they. They overturned his conviction and shout out big dirt. And all of them. I'm from the south side of Chicago. Yeah.

Host (35:52)

But now his son doing.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (35:54)

And that's what I'm saying, man. We. We look. You look at our counterparts. Our counterparts inherit shit wheels, shit like that, bro. We passing down funeral costs and jail visits. So we gotta talk about it, man.

Host (36:08)

Yeah. I think one of the things that I never considered that is kind of this is bringing up for me is when I would enroll my kids in the preschool, they were always asked this one question. Is there anybody living in the household with a felon? And I'm never thinking about, like, the why, but if there is somebody living in the household with a feeling, is that gonna stop my child from being able to go to this school? Probably. Yeah, probably.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (36:39)

Absolutely.

Host (36:40)

And when we talk about, like, the system and stuff like that, when we talk about, you know, what's being inherited through these systems, I think the bigger part is to point the finger at the system. When I talk about the cause and effects of things. The cause and effect of the crack epidemic and how many people they funneled into the prison industrial complex.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (37:03)

Yeah.

Host (37:04)

How many men come home with no opportunities or with all this trauma and don't know what to do with it in this free world? Yeah. I think sometimes the comfortable space for them to be in is back in prison.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (37:17)

I mean. Yeah. To them, because it's that mental thing. But I'm a point to something that you just. You made me think about. So, look, think about the crack era, right? So in the 80s, I'm born 1980s. So in the 80s, right. I'm like. I'm seeing some of my partners, like fathers and all of them mothers, even Come up missing and they be, like, raised by their grandmother and them. But I ain't know what was going on. None of us knew what was going on. Then when we asked questions like, man, where your mom at? Where your daddy at? Oh, they down south. Or they went to the service. Nah, bro, they were being swept up in. In the 80s, drugs. You understand what I'm saying? So now my partners around that age group, they grew up and they did pretty well because grandma was strong. You know what I'm saying? Let me fast forward now. Who the grandmamas? You see what I'm saying? So this. This. When you want to talk about this drug war and all of that, what it really did to us, bro, it crippled us for generations. It took a leg from. Out from my chair. It took one of the legs out. And we've been trying to balance this boy in soc.

Host (38:25)

Yeah, there's an aspect of family trauma that comes along with that too, because, you know, back to the situation where I tell you when I was in court and how I seen my mom. But it's also like, you take the situation you go through, your family go through it too. So there's like a family trauma aspect to it. There's a. Even though you innocent, I'm still gonna blame you for the anxiety. I'm still gonna blame you for the pain, you know? Cause we don't know oftentimes where to put that. And when we talk about the system and you bring up prosecutorial accountability, that doesn't happen. What's your take on that? Like, how do you feel about that? What role does the state take in taking accountability for these things that we gotta live with?

Jerry Adams, Esq. (39:13)

Bro, that's on purpose. You know that too, man. But it's a great question if you wanna consider this analogy. The prosecutor is the strongest piece on the chessbox board. They are the queen. They can move whatever direction they want to move, take whatever pieces they want to take. They are the strongest component of the criminal justice system. And then it also. It also means something that a large percentage of prosecutors throughout the United States. This. This is both federal as well as state are Caucasian. So where. And it don't mean that all of them racist, but what it mean is this where me and you can hear a story from Kesha and Jamal, and we like, yeah, man, I get that, man. Let's not hammer them. They'll hear that same story and be like, yeah, I heard that shit before. 30 years, right? That is the biggest difference, man. And if you want to get fairness in this system, it has to start with equity and equality, bro. You got to be able to diverse these. And it ain't always the skin color. Right?

Host (40:18)

Yeah.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (40:18)

You know what I'm saying?

Host (40:19)

There are a lot of internalized racial biases that people have, but that's even black people. Yes, even. Even a black lawyer that, you know, just whatever they disposition on life is, is on some better than type vibe. Then it's like Keyshawn Jamal might not be they cup of tea.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (40:34)

Yeah. And I'm explaining this too.

Host (40:35)

And freeing them might not be the precursor to them getting to the state's attorney's office or whatever.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (40:41)

Yeah. And I'm gonna say this too. This is something that is within our power and control. Cause that prosecutorial thing, man, look, they didn't have. They didn't have all the power for a long time. I don't think you ever gonna get. Get prosecutors to have their balance checked. You just not right. I'll tell you what we can control, though. Everybody who watching this podcast, listening, man. Start showing up for jury duty, man. Start showing up for jury duty, you then get a vote. I can't tell you how many times I'm in these cases going to trial, and it's three black folks out of the pool of 40 we get to choose from. How many of them black folks you think make it on the jury?

Host (41:20)

Probably none.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (41:21)

Exactly.

Host (41:22)

Everyone.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (41:22)

Exactly.

Host (41:23)

I shot up for jury duty. And also this was like, damn, I'm really in a good space in life. My. They called me.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (41:30)

They called you.

Host (41:32)

I'm doing my thing. I'm out here living legit.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (41:36)

Yeah.

Host (41:37)

You know what I'm saying? They want my opinion in this. You know what I'm saying? Man, them folks like, pick me, man.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (41:41)

Oh, no, they not.

Host (41:42)

I went home same day. They was like, thank you. You know what I'm saying? But still, it was to show up. But I think to your point. So. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. May is mental health awareness month. And I think it's a good reminder that whatever you're carrying, you don't have to carry it by yourself. Life is a journey, and some days feel lighter than others. But then there are those days or those seasons where your mind is racing, you're feeling overwhelmed, you're trying to figure everything out on your own. And the truth is, none of us has all these answers by ourselves. Therapy can be a place to talk things through with someone who is there to listen, listen, understand, and support you without judgment. Whether you've been feeling anxious, stuck, unsure, or just like you need help sorting through what's been keeping you up at night. Checking in with yourself matters. Better help makes it easier to get connected with support. You'll answer a short questionnaire about your needs and Preferences and BetterHelp does the initial matching work to help you connect with a licensed therapist. And if that match doesn't feel right, you can always switch therapists at any time. BetterHelp is the world world's largest online therapy platform with over 30,000 therapists and they've helped more than 6 million people globally. You don't have to do this journey alone. Find support and have someone with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off@betterhelp.com grits that's betterhelp.com grits all right, let me put y' all onto something real quick. If you're still dealing with all these bank fees, overdraft charges, monthly fees, all of that, it's time to upgrade. Chime is changing the way people bank. This is a fee free banking built for you, not these traditional banks that make you feel like they're always taking something out of your account. What I like about it is it actually feels designed for real life. Like why am I paying just to access my own money? With Chime, you've got access to thousands of fee free ATMs. If you've ever been in that situation where your account dips a little too low, they've got Spotme which lets you overdraft up to $200 with no fee. That alone Game changer. I know when I was using the Chime account, that was a game changer for me. It was like getting in advance because there was no fee attached to it. Plus if you set up the direct deposit, that's where you really unlock the benefits. You can get things like cash back on everyday spending like gas or groceries, and even grow your savings faster with a competitive apy. Honestly, I know my younger self really benefited from this and I think you know your younger self would have benefited from it as well because it just makes managing your money feel a lot less stressful and a lot more in your control. Chime is not only smarter banking, it is the most rewarding way to bank join the millions who are already banking fee free today. Head to chime.com grits that's chime.com grits it only takes a few minutes to get signed up.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (44:26)

Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services for MyPay and ChimeCard provided by Chime's bank partners. Optional products and Services may have fees or charges, stated annual percentage yield and cash back for Chime prime only, no minimum balance required. Checking account ranking based on the J.D. power survey published October 20, 2025. For more information on APY rates, my pay spot me and travel perks, go to chime.com disclosures there's this show that

Host (44:43)

came out and they basically showed the behind the scenes of the jurors. And you take away from this that these are people with jobs, businesses, shit, maybe they collect. Whatever the case may be, most people want to get back, even if they routine is something they hate. Yeah, they wanna get back to it.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (45:08)

Yeah.

Host (45:10)

And I think also when we speak to racial biases and when we speak to the history of racial bias in this country, then you get a George Stinney, like, why would he be executed at 14 years old, man? Why? Yeah, and then so we gotta get into this aspect of going to jury duty, showing up, making sure your opinion is heard. Voting is very important. Making sure, especially on a local level, that you, like, utilize whatever power you have as an individual to influence the society. And then we also need to account for the history of racial bias in the system where it's still majority rule in the system that was founded on just, hey, man, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, we abolish slavery, but with this one little exception. And that one little exception mean, like, we'll do a sweep and 12 y' all finna do 25 years in prison for no reason. Or in the 80s, late 90s. This ain't powder cocaine. This crack cocaine.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (46:06)

30 years. Yeah. 40 more years more.

Host (46:08)

You see what I'm saying? It is the foundation of the system. It's not something we can get away from. And I do think that people will grow and progress. So I can't say for every 90 lawyers that 90 of them is racist. I'm pretty sure there's a diversity of thought in there somewhere. But there is a system.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (46:26)

It is.

Host (46:27)

You see what I'm saying? And the system, like, rewards the biases that it was built off of.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (46:31)

I swear it does. And like I said, man, a felony for one ain't the felony for the other. You know what I mean? And it doesn't have the same effects. And that's why I'm telling you, like, look legitly, we gotta. Our turn up cannot outweigh our turnout or we gonna be tuned out like that. That's literally what it is. It gotta be a balance of kicking it and educating as well, man to hip folks. What's Going on. I'm telling you, I can't tell you how many kids south side of Chicago I represent. And you talk to them, man, and they don't really know or understand that right to a lawyer, that right to shut up and don't speak and don't say nothing and stuff like that. They literally think they're gonna be able to talk their way outta shit. And it never works.

Host (47:14)

No, it's not gonna work. All you're doing is like building evidence.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (47:16)

That's it.

Host (47:17)

I think there needs to be an emphasis on this though. You know, the legalese thing is like one of the things that I've come up across a lot more here now because, you know, I do a lot of different stuff and it requires contracts and I have to have a lawyer, like, bro, what does this mean? And people utilize like AI for stuff like that too.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (47:40)

But yeah, don't you do it, bro.

Host (47:41)

You know, I'm not, I'm not the AI guy, but either way, it's like for a community that's so affected by the law to not know the law or not understand the terms of the law, something that probably needs to change. Yeah, I see police, like when police approach somebody and they know their rights, they kind of get back off of it. Yeah, they like, you know what? Yeah, I don't got time for this.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (48:04)

Yeah, absolutely.

Host (48:05)

I wanted an easy.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (48:06)

It's key words, man, you could say. But you make a good point, bro. I mean, hell, I think it's more episodes, the first 48 from Atlanta than it is any other other community.

Host (48:16)

Right. I watch these niggas think they could talk their way out of it. And they just over there like, hell yeah. We got that boy talking up. We got him talking. If we get you talking, that's it, it's over with. Every episode there's and. And listen, this may be 1%.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (48:30)

Yeah.

Host (48:30)

But every episode where I heard dude be like, let me get a lawyer, maybe that's over with. And what happens is it's like, yeah, 36 month later, this is open case, whatever the case may be. And even if it is a murder case and like, that's up, you know what I'm saying? Somebody died.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (48:45)

Yeah.

Host (48:46)

The legal process dictate the emotional process.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (48:49)

Not at all.

Host (48:50)

So look, bro, these people don't give a about emotions.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (48:52)

They don't.

Host (48:53)

As soon as you open your mouth, they're like, we got a case and we got a conviction right. Right here. He gave us everything.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (48:58)

And look, not all cases are the same anyway. It like, look, I Didn't listen. I'm reviewing cases right now where it should have been a self defense claim and it wasn't. And the reason that it wasn't was because some stuff they said in the police station, right? And so as a result, man, I'm telling you, man, we have to start to equip our children, man, with the knowledge, man, about their interactions with the authorities, man, they need to know what's going on.

Host (49:26)

I wanna get to what role did you play in the Waverly case?

Jerry Adams, Esq. (49:29)

So the Waverly case, this is Waverly, Virginia. This is two guys, Terrence and Ferron. So I'm in Virginia one day and I'm speaking at the Virginia Sheriff's association where they were in Virginia. When you get discharging on your sentence, you get your rights back to vote, right? And so they do like a little ceremony, you get your certificate and all that type of stuff, you can go back and vote and stuff like that. So I'm speaking at this event. The Sheriff's association brought me out and they let like people in the community know. So after I'm done speaking, telling my story and stuff like that, there is, there's a line created of folks who just want to give me, give me dap and women who want to meet me and stuff like that, and hey, you know, would you sign a book? All that type of stuff. So there's a woman, man, who's in the line and she got a manila envelope in her hand and she like, you know, she's just like struggling to get to me. Like, man, what I'm gonna say to him, type of face, right? Kind of reminded me of my mother, man, and them wrinkles and creases of anguish on her forehead. So when she gets to me, she hand me this envelope and the envelope is a letter basically from Terrence and Ferran. And they explained it to me that they were wrongfully convicted and sentenced to life in prison based on a case that they never should have pled guilty to in state court. So first of all, I had to wrap my mind around it because I ain't really understand like what, what exactly was going on and what happened. Let me tell you this. Waverly, Virginia, 1998. Ironically, the same year that I'm wrongfully convicted, these two guys are accused falsely of the killing of a white police officer in Waverly, Virginia name. They are arrested, they are held on capital murder charges. And at the time, Virginia is putting people to death, like Texas. All right? So their lawyers, white lawyers from upstate, you know, are advising Them, man, they giving y' all some sweetheart deals with little time. You should just plead guilty and get this over with. Meanwhile, what should have been, the question is, why are they offering us these plea deals and we supposed to be black men killers of a cop. It don't make sense. Ain't never made sense, historically, that someone would give black men a break, you know what I mean? Especially like that.

Host (51:49)

Yeah, that's a lynching 60 years ago.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (51:52)

Yeah.

Host (51:52)

Yeah. It's gonna be just in the street.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (51:54)

Yeah. So we were looking at. We were reviewing what is going on in the case in the timeline. And so. So these guys end up taking a plea in state court, one for five years for a manslaughter, the other for time served for accessory after the fact. And the story was that the cop was breaking up a drug deal and they wrestled the gun away and it accidentally shot the cop. It was just some stupidness. Right? So now they thinking it's over with. The feds come and they squeeze the community down there of all the people who were selling dope. They do these undercover buys with these people and they tell these people, we gonna send y' all to federal prison, you know, for life, if y' all don't tell us that Terence and Ferran is out here selling dope and how much dope they didn't sold. So of course they do it. And the reason that the feds are doing this is because they need a vehicle to retry them for the same murder that they pled guilty to in that vehicle, is what they've been doing our community forever. Drug laws. So they say that the officer died as a result of a continuing cocaine enterprise of selling drugs. And because they were pled guilty in state court. Don't even matter. We can still retry them for the murder because the murder is a result of this drug ring that they allegedly had. Right. Mind you, you, if these dudes are drug kingpins, one of the guys is 13 years old in grammar school at the time that he's supposed to be doing this drug ring and all of this. So they're now indicted in federal court for the same murder that they pled guilty to and thought it was over with in state court, but they're also being charged for drug conspiracy. They go to trial, the jury finds them not guilty of the murder. Murder, but finds them guilty of a single drug count. They think they finna get out or at least get seven to 10 years. Judge comes in on day of sentencing and says, I'm gonna use this state court Conviction that y' all pled guilty to. And I'm enhancing both of your sentence to life. They never saw a day of light ever since that day.

Host (54:06)

That's insane, bro.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (54:07)

And that is, like, when I try to explain people the story, people think I'm, like, fudging some of the facts. Nah, man. That's what they did. And they're able to do it with a. With a. With a court case that I want many people to understand and go research. It's called US vs Watts. That's the United States Supreme Court vs Watts. What it says is this and how it was used. I mean, this is important history, too. So everybody know about how Giuliani used the. The, you know, the RICO statute to take down the mob, right?

Host (54:39)

Yeah.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (54:40)

The reason why this US versus Watts became important was because you not gonna catch the boss doing all the stuff that. That the hitters are doing. Right. You're just not. So what they would do was use stuff called relevant conduct. Relevant conduct is accusations that you did something. I don't even have to prove you did it. I could just accuse you of doing it and. And have police saying you, you did it. We couldn't catch him over here, but we know he bopped somebody three. Three years ago and stuff like that. The judge can consider that. That and enhance your sentence. And that's what they did.

Host (55:14)

Crazy, bro.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (55:15)

They enhanced their life.

Host (55:16)

When I was watching the news segment on it.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (55:20)

Yeah.

Host (55:21)

And they were showing where it was being done and how it was being done, and then they was trying to spin this like kingpin. I'm like, kingpins ain't doing hand to hands and back alleys.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (55:32)

Come on, man.

Host (55:33)

The is they talking about.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (55:34)

They ain't even had no cars registered to.

Host (55:36)

Also, the cops dying description of the killer look nothing like these people.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (55:42)

No, they. They tried to say that dreadlocks and braids are the same thing. Yeah, man.

Host (55:47)

See, this is where the. The cultural. Yeah, yeah, bro. These two dudes, bro. One of them. I mean, at the time of. I see him, he's bald, but of course he rock a low cut. The other one rocked straight to the back. Cornrows.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (56:00)

Yeah. Come on, man. The officer's dying declaration was, the guy that I that wrestled my gun away had dreadlocks, and he was a bit taller than me. They literally turned a discussion of our goddamn hair on us and said, cornrows and dreadlocks are the same.

Host (56:20)

And they said he was fat, too.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (56:21)

Yeah. I mean, the whole case. I really want people to go look up and Google Waverly burning and go look at these segments and stuff like that. Because I'm telling you right now, still in 20, 26, man. Man, we still have some of the same things that they've done to us being done to us now. So now I'm working this case all the way up. We in state court battling, but eventually I'm able to get Joe Biden's office to. To grant a pardon. Not a not. I mean, not a pardon, a commutation. We asked for a pardon, but we got a commutation. Just want to hit folks on this. A pardon and a commutation is two different things, right? A pardon mean I'm pardoning you from everything that they said you did. It ain't like you did it no more. A commutation, I'm going to commute your sentence to time serve and not life.

Host (57:07)

But you still get the conviction.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (57:09)

But you still got the conviction. So I got. We able to work with the organization. We able to get them out. We get them out. And they got. They got out last year, right? And they get out and we still moving in the state court to get them fully exonerated and acknowledged by the state. So I just argued their case in the Virginia Supreme Court. I mean, you go look this up on life after justice.org you can see all of the filings, all of the arguments I made. I mean, look, man, I'm not trying to pat my own self on the. But I'm a young black man arguing in the Virginia Supreme Court on behalf of two other black men who are innocent. And it's a big deal. But I need some help, y'.

Host (57:46)

All.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (57:46)

I need y' all eyes on this. Yeah. You understand what I'm saying?

Host (57:48)

Is this one of the more higher profile cases? With some of the more higher profile cases.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (57:53)

This is one of the. This is one of the highest profile cases that, that I have. Because you know, man, bro, they ain't do it, man. I don't spend time with their family and them 10 years now that they out. I'm watching them go through the same thing that me and you did, you know, like when you get out, you know what I mean? There's an adjustment period. They grown ass, man, bro, it ain't nothing like, man, you watching grown men crying their hands, bro. It ain't nothing you could do. And they saying stuff that hit you harder. Cause you done went through similar past. Like Terrence, like, man, every morning I got to wake up and look at gray hairs that I never had when they locked me Up. You know what I'm saying?

Host (58:28)

Yeah, that shit wild, bro.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (58:29)

It's tough. So that is one of the biggest ones. But the other one is, is you got to look up this. This Robert and David Bentz case out of Wisconsin, man. Like, y' all gotta look this up, bro. It was an actual serial rapist, man, in the community. And the police, you know, could have got this dude and cleared these guys. These guys ended up doing 26, 27 years. And they out there right now, innocent, but living in halfway houses, basically.

Host (58:56)

Yeah.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (58:56)

You know what I'm saying? A difficult case. Another one I want people to follow along. I got a civil rights case, case that originated out of Tarrant County Jail. A young black girl, mentally challenged. She ain't making it up, bro. She ain't got no reason to be making it up. It's fully documented. She's in the county jail on a domestic call. She shouldn't even been there. She should have been at the. At the mental hospital. She's at 37 weeks of being pregnant, and the doctors in there are not taking her mental illness seriously. And when a specialist tells the head of the medical department in the jail, hey, look, man, she ain't making this up. She can't talk. She's not going to tell you when. She's not going to be able to tell you when she having a contraction. You should move to induce her or put her in a wing where she's under surveillance 24 hours, four days later, this guy did nothing. They look in the room, and she didn't. Gave birth to the baby in her pant leg. The baby then passed away in her pant leg from suffocation. And. And what happens again, bro? We sued jail. We sued the doctor because the doctor was the one who's the only one with the information. The. The jail settles with us. But the doctor gets what from the court? Qualified immunity. And they said there's no proof that. We can show that. The email that got to him on the morning she was going into labor, which said that she was complaining of stomach aches, we can't prove that. He opened it up and read the attachment. My response to the court was, if the standard is that I have to have proof that a doctor did his job and chose the means of communication and opened up an attachment, there's absolutely no plaintiff in this world who will ever be able to hold a jail medical staff responsible. And I'm telling you, bro, when I started to do this case and started to go through this, there are a lot of of black women who are losing their babies in jails with incidents like this. And again, once again, we ain't really talking about it as much as we should, bro. We be talking about, like, getting in fights and doing this stupid a lot. And we don't share the platform like you doing, brother. To talk about stuff like this. I could tell your reaction to that, that one of your kids might be a girl, right? You got a daughter. Yeah, and I have a daughter, so it's just taking on new meaning for me.

Host (61:16)

That's up, bro.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (61:18)

Yeah. Before I came here, I just argued the case in the Fifth Circuit federal court, asking the court to reverse the decision of the district court granting qualified immunity. Because I'm like this. The deliberate indifference standard is the standard. That means can you prove they did it intentionally or they intentionally didn't do their job? My argument is that I can't prove to you the man opened up a fucking attachment on his phone and looked at it. But I could prove to you four days before the OB GYN told him, yo, she not gonna be able to tell you if she having contractions. She's 37 weeks pregnant. Take precautions. So if he had notice of a medical crisis, that that could be happening in his jail, how the fuck ain't he responsible?

Host (62:02)

Right?

Jerry Adams, Esq. (62:03)

It's crazy.

Host (62:04)

I mean, she's a. She's convicted. She can't move around freely.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (62:07)

She can't do nothing at all. And the funny thing is, she wasn't convicted. She was just held on this domestic violence. And then they ended up dismissing the charges because the judge who ran the domestic violence stuff was like, man, man, why didn't y' all tell me she was in here? I would've released her. So it's just a drop in the system all the way around. And right now, man, Chastity, man, is the young lady. Chasidy Kanjius is the young lady. And she dealing with postpartum psychosis, meaning that every time she sees a baby or somebody interacting with a baby, it triggers her. Man.

Host (62:43)

I think the biggest thing about our system is that it was built on. In America, it was built on the conviction and re. Enslavement of black people to the point where if you already don't consider these people human to justify your wrongdoing, then the system is predicated on everybody that gets a conviction is less human now.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (63:08)

Yeah.

Host (63:10)

And the lack of humanity that they had towards her her is the reason why her baby's dead.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (63:16)

I swear. You. You do?

Host (63:17)

You.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (63:17)

You. Are you familiar with the term perp walk.

Host (63:21)

Yeah.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (63:21)

In New York, you know how like they do the perp walk and stuff like that?

Host (63:24)

The they did with Luigi?

Jerry Adams, Esq. (63:25)

Yeah. You, you know where that shit really came from? It came from this. So if I walk somebody across your screen in handcuffs, you as a viewer are not gonna say what did they accuse him of? You're gonna say what did he, he do? Right, exactly. So how do you get the public to stop asking a lot of questions? You demonize the person.

Host (63:50)

Yeah. Cuz you become jail, you already become guilty optically.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (63:54)

Yeah. So what happens to you is not really cared about anymore because they've already marked you as you didn't done something.

Host (64:04)

Yeah, man, they, they, they that whole guilty, I mean innocent until proven guilty. It's some bullshit. Because they do everything to have you guilty in a court of public opinion. And you try, I mean, you're judged by 12 of your public peers.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (64:21)

I'll tell you another one, right. The people really don't, because it'll be layered. They don't really look at it. So you remember how the bail reform project became a big issue and stuff like that, Right. Well, let me tell you why it was so much pushback on that. So you got folks who are saying the bail system works, you should be able to post bail and you should be able to do this. Well, let's go back to the origination of the bail period in any of society. So people was like, look, when you accused of something, you would deserve due process. And you also don't deserve to be in jail while you fight. So we gonna come up with a bail process. And if you don't have money, you could put down chattel or you could put down house or whatever it is. Who you think was at the table talking and thinking like that, who wasn't at the table and now who is it the most? Us. We wasn't at the table.

Host (65:18)

But that was the design from the beginning. That's the up part about it. And so like often times when we talk about like restructuring any system, the thing that people talk about the most is the cost. I think oftentimes what they don't talk about is the impact.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (65:38)

No doubt.

Host (65:39)

And fuck the cost. If we can't quantify what the impact is. I can quantify what the impact is to the black community from prison industrial complex easily and basically created a whole sector of careers in law and how it affects the system at large on a federal level too. A lot of people that's in politics are lawyers or come from a law background. And so they understand the system from a language perspective that most people don't. But they don't understand or they don't quantify, like, the impact that it has. And when you get to a place where it's just numbers and conviction rates, then we take the humanity out of it completely and it's just data. And I know that you talk about. About some of these cases and things like that, but I want to get to your book because you are an author as well, and I want you to kind of plug your book so not only people can find you, but also, you know, let me get that book.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (66:39)

I brought you a book, too.

Host (66:40)

Oh, man, thank you.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (66:41)

I brought you when I signed it.

Host (66:42)

What is some of the impact that you've seen not only from your book, but, like, on you as a person going through and having to write that book?

Jerry Adams, Esq. (66:49)

Yeah, so the book. I know you probably hear people be like, man, I wrote a book just like, man, look, that book took me three years to write real. And I'm gonna make sure that I sign it for you as well, too. So.

Host (66:58)

Absolutely.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (66:59)

I want you to check out the COVID though. If you look at the COVID at the top, that's my booking photo. 17 years old, right?

Host (67:08)

Man.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (67:09)

The next photo that you see is. Is 12 to 13 years later, I'm in court exonerating the first guy that I ever did, Richard Baran.

Host (67:18)

You look dead ass, too.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (67:21)

So I. I think one of the things that. One of the things that I focus on in this book is this. I think people think that it's going to be talking about stories in prison and jail and all of that type of stuff. I read a bunch of books. It took me three years to write this book. I read a bunch of books about, like, prison, wrongful convictions and all that type of stuff. One of the things that I found that was missing in it was what me and you just talked about earlier with UNC and all that type of stuff. I wanted to talk about the impacts of families and communities as a result of wrongful convictions in the system in general, period. So when I open up the book, I'm opening up the book and I'm talking about my grandfather who was a Purple Heart recipient who almost died in the war. He came home, and when he came home, they didn't think he was gonna live long, but he lived long enough to have my mother who then would give birth to me and stuff like that. So I open up talking about that, because a lot of times, man, when we make it to these courtroom, we born at the scene of our crime. They don't even know nothing about us. They don't care nothing about us. They don't know no care about no service, no none of that. Right. So I opened the book up talking about that, but I also made sure that I acknowledge, man, these three black angels, man, my mother and my two aunts, man. And I gave a shout out to the black women who held me down for the entire journey. So my book is going to discuss the wrongful conviction, but more than anything, man, it is a document testimony of my journey of getting my lick back in the legal law profession, man. Yeah, that's it.

Host (68:51)

Several times over too.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (68:52)

Yeah, that's it.

Host (68:53)

Raise your hand. Be honest, how many of y' all have been putting off going to the doctor? Yeah, me too. Like I noticed something is a little off. And instead of booking an appointment, I'm on my phone at 1:00am Googling symptoms, you know, Dr. Google, convincing myself I either need to drink more water or that I'm dying, no in between. Or I'll say like I'm a book it this week and then the week comes and it goes and the next thing you know, it's been months. That's exactly why I like ZocDoc. Because it actually makes finding a doctor and booking the appointment way easier than we make it in our own head. ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can find and book high quality in network doctors. And I'm talking about over 150,000 providers across all 50 states. So whatever you need, whether it's dental, primary care, dermatology, eye care, all of that is on there. And you can search by specialty or even by symptoms, read real patient reviews and actually get a feel for the doctor before you book. And the best part, you can see their real time availability and book instant instantly. No calling offices, no being on hold, no we'll call you backs. You can do in person visits or video visits, whatever works for you. And appointments usually happen fast, like within 24 to 72 hours and sometimes even same day. If I need to find a new doctor, this is exactly what I use. Because anything that makes taking care of myself easier, I'm with that. So stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com to find and instantly book a doctor you love today. That Z O c d o c.com grits zocdoc.com grits thank you Zocdoc for sponsoring this message. I think about the impact that these women have had not only on your life, but. But how big a role black women play in all of our lives, oftentimes like as unsung heroes, bro. Cause people's like, one of the things that people talk about is like articulation, like, oh, you articulate and you woo, do woo. But you also know how to say to the common folks, I'm like, bro, this come from my mama and grandma, bruh.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (71:22)

That's it.

Host (71:24)

My mom was really big on, like being able to speak the language of every room you walk into. Like, if you can't speak their language, you know, get out their room. No doubt, because they gonna be speaking around you and then you're gonna be up, you're gonna be lost in the sauce. But she was like, but if you only know how to speak in one room, you gotta get out of that room too.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (71:39)

Yeah.

Host (71:40)

You know what I'm saying? So I think it's important to like this idea in America. It's an idea that stems from capitalism, that is this self made mentality.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (71:55)

Yeah.

Host (71:56)

But if you don't have people to support you on your journey, there is no Esquire at the end, you know what I mean? There is no Esquire.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (72:03)

And also that's why I make the point. And I talk about like the grandmama thing, man, in the crack area and all of that type of stuff. Me and you grew up with our granny. They instilled the quality in us that we didn't even know existed until we got tested.

Host (72:15)

That part, you know what I'm saying? That part. So right now, man, and they had time, bro. They spent time with us, you know what I'm saying?

Jerry Adams, Esq. (72:22)

Look, man, look, we grew up, man. I grew up on the south side. Look, I grew up on the south side. That Dirk and them be Rapp.

Host (72:27)

That's what.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (72:28)

Like my area from 93rd, Cottage Grove, 97th and Ellis in Grove Heights, where I grew up at Burnside area. It was rough out there, right? But I had a granny, man, who would keep me close, you know what I'm saying? And you know, look, everybody got in their own mischief and stuff like that. Her punishments for me wasn't really whooping me. Her punishments was she'd make me go read a book and write a book report.

Host (72:50)

I be doing that at the crib. I be mad.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (72:52)

I was mad as. I don't know, what is it Shorty doing that, man.

Host (72:55)

Yeah, I think my. I made my son do that. And it like when he get in trouble. Cause I know that's like the thing especially with kids now is like disconnecting from electronics and having a really digestive devastating to them. Right. And then look, this is another thing too. I'm real like, I'm cutthroat. Like how my grandma was when it come to shit like that. Like after I get two, three sentences in, I know this ain't gonna start over, but now it's gonna make you lock in like, damn, okay, I couldn't get away with the bullshit. Yeah, let me go lock the fuck in. But, yeah, but you see it in language though.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (73:25)

I do.

Host (73:25)

The way that my son communicate with me is not like most 12 year olds.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (73:29)

It's an important thing, man. I think that that was when I got in there too. This, this is what saved me too, man. That's why I, I sent a shout out to my granny and them. So look, they test you when you get to the actual joint, like on reading comprehension and stuff like that. So my reading comprehension was, was, was off the chart a little bit. Right. So as a result, that's how I got the job, like tutoring folks and stuff like that. That put me out the way in the law, law library. And that's where I started to study my own case and help other people. And it was, was what kept me out the way, you know what I'm saying? After that first year I cooled down and I was like, man, I gotta get out of here, bro. Like, I gotta get clean up out of here or I'm. I'm gonna end up in this boy with some more time. So I'm like, look, let me get up out of here. But it was that reading comprehension, man, and stuff like that that I got, you know, from the tools that was given. And that's what I'm trying to tell you. I don't know how we gonna do this, but we gonna have to replicate the grannies from back in the day day in order to have a chance to get the up out of what we in right now, man.

Host (74:29)

And we at least need a social program. Absolutely. That reflects it.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (74:33)

Absolutely, man.

Host (74:34)

And you know, it's a lot of women out here that are retired and just looking for stuff to do. Like, you know, oftentimes. Yeah, yeah, man, they be, they be living by themselves, bro. That'd be the sad part because the things is like we come from situations of poverty where they might look at the value that grandma house have at the market and not the value it have to the community.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (74:57)

Yeah.

Host (74:58)

And so, you know, it's a lot of granny houses that have been sold man, you're right. It's a lot of them been sold. They're aided in gentrification.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (75:04)

I was gonna say that. It's a lot of look. Back then, houses would be handed down because, you know, your granny and grandfather then paid that bill. Right. So the only thing that you would have to do is take care of the taxes. Do you know how many of our houses have been gentrified based off of not paying tax taxes? And now it's purse dogs and coffee boutiques in these boys and stuff like that. Like these real conversations. Look, and this is the thing I want folks to understand as well, too. You will see two sides of me. I don't talk like this in court, but this is where I'm most comfortable at, because I'll be trying to give it to y' all on what I'm seeing, man. And when I go inside of these courtrooms, man, I am one of the. I think I'm almost one on one of young black attorneys on these level of courtrooms that I'm arguing on, talking about the Virginia Supreme Court, The United States District Court in the Fifth Circuit. Ain't no higher court than that than the Supreme Court. I'm lonely in that old bro. I don't want to be the only one in there.

Host (76:01)

Yeah.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (76:01)

And the only way I'm gonna get more of us in here is by doing this following what the hip hop era did. There was a time where people didn't believe that hip hop was gonna ever make it right because it was to this. It was too, that. But essentially. And eventually it started to get our youth to emulate and wanna be rappers and wanna be, you know, singers and all of that, because it became cool to them and understandable that it could help them get out of that situation they in. And they also had a love for it. That's what I'm trying to do with the law. That's what redeeming justice is about.

Host (76:34)

Absolutely. Me and you are both Breakfast Club alumni.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (76:39)

Yeah.

Host (76:39)

You know what I'm saying? That's a real thing out here. You know what I'm saying? We alumni, you know what I'm saying? What was. What was it like being on that platform? And what are some of, like, cultural impacts.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (76:49)

Yeah.

Host (76:50)

That you aim to have in those moments?

Jerry Adams, Esq. (76:52)

That was a dope experience for me, man, because, like, it's like, you know, you. You sitting down, you following, you looking at all the clips, you saying that, you know, you want to be able to have a voice at some point and stuff like that. So to go on there, tell my story, but also hear how it resonated even with Charlamagne and all of them, man. Because again, everybody got these stories like me and you, bro. They just want to be talking about. About it, about ank. About me being introduced to my niece. Everybody has them. I think that having the opportunity to have a plat get on a platform like that, I think it goes to the message of what I'm saying. We gonna turn up. We culturally and the most talented people in this. In this damn world.

Host (77:31)

Right?

Jerry Adams, Esq. (77:31)

We gonna turn up and have a good time. The most artistic people in this world. But our turnout got a match.

Host (77:37)

Yeah. Turn up versus turnout got a match, gotta match, yeah. When you talk about reform a lot, what are some of the key points of reform that you think are missing and what are some of the goals that you aim to accomplish in prison reform?

Jerry Adams, Esq. (77:54)

I think one of the biggest issues about the reform part of it is this. We've allowed for states to take programs and re entry initiatives out of the prison prisons and just be like, oh, they can get it when they get out. Well, imagine if, if me and you on the plane and they're like, man, here go your parachute, but get out right now. You figure out how to put that boy on. On your way fucking down right now. Some of us might be miraculous enough to get that goddamn parachute on our back on the way down and let it out and get to safety, but the majority of us gonna hit the fucking ground and splat.

Host (78:34)

Absolutely.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (78:34)

And so think about that from a prison, you know, standpoint, man, we gotta equip people with the goddamn parachute before they get out. And the only way you're gonna do that is to start to offer mental health care therapy and also, also child programs in there. So when men who didn't have kids when they got in and then they get out and they don't know, you know what I'm saying, they got to get introduced to. They need to know how to parent, bro. You understand what I'm saying? Like, all of that stuff is important, I think, to. To helping with reentry and stuff like that. I think it's extremely healthy. And I also think it's extremely helpful for brothers like myself, brothers like you to talk about this, because I think that chips away at the stigma, you understand what I'm saying? Like, bro, I just met you in person, but I'm proud of you, man. You didn't came and built some stuff off having real organic conversations. And I wanted to be on here so that's why I was like, man, if we got to push this thing back. Cause I told you I was coming from New Orleans. I'm like, if we got to push this thing back, I'm gonna make sure that I get on with this brother and tell him how much I appreciate you opening up and being yourself, man, both on your accomplishments as well as things that pained you. Because that's gonna help our shorties understand that it's okay to open up.

Host (79:48)

Absolutely. Yeah. I think I appreciate that. For one. Thank you. Something that what you were saying reminds me of is the role that media plays in this. Right. So, so oftentimes people won't platform someone like you, but what they will do is platform an ex convict. And the ex convict will tell these salacious and entertaining stories of lockup. But not about reform, not about it.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (80:17)

Yeah.

Host (80:18)

Not about reentry into society.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (80:20)

Yeah.

Host (80:20)

And then they'll. And then engaging. You know, here's the thing that people. People don't often realize or recognize is that a lot of them brothers that get convicted and go to prison are talented people. Absolutely talented, very charismatic people. Sometimes they may be narcissistic so that aids in the charisma, but sometimes they genuinely just might be good dudes birthed in a fucked up situation. And so we got some dudes that might come and get on these platforms and they're entertaining, but the only thing they doing is telling us prison stories and they not talking about reform. And it's like, bro, that ain't for me. That shit ain't cool. Like, I don't want to hear about the. Actually, I feel like you should have never went to prison. So let's start there.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (81:03)

Yeah. Yeah, man.

Host (81:04)

I mean, look, you dig what I'm saying? Like, I don't be liking that shit.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (81:08)

I be so mad why I can't.

Host (81:10)

As a lawyer. That gotta burn you up, son. Yeah, man, I be mad as hell, man. Yeah, well, propaganda is a real thing though, right? It is so live PD Cops. You know, any Marvel movie. Yeah, they always try to make like this, like, industrial prison. Industrial complex, military industrial complex. Very like, heroic. But they don't talk about the impact that it has on lives in a real way and disproportionate impact on black people. And so black people are like, yo, they over here fucking us up, my nigga. They locking us up by the hundreds and y' all not paying attention. And then it's like for every however many get locked up wrongfully for convicted, it's someone like you that can help Them get exonerated. But that's not the majority. We still don't know what the numbers are on how many people are in there wrongfully convicted. One. Because everybody's innocent.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (82:01)

I mean, you know, that's, that's the tagline. I mean, that's what people were responding to me to when I was saying it. You know what I'm saying? They like, man, ain't everybody innocent? Man, ain't nobody do it. But let me, let me tell you this. Over 60, 70% of the people who are locked up right now today have passed through some type of incarceral system before, right? So let me, let me use an analogy I like to use, right? Imagine if we had a car company and that car company, right, was producing cars off of his belt. And then two to three years those cars was back on the belt because something was wrong with it, bro. We had shut that car company down.

Host (82:40)

Absolutely.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (82:41)

So look at, look at what we doing with our system, man. Brothers and sisters are getting out struggling, man, and they right back, you know what I mean? And then instead of, of us looking in the mirror of the system and fixing that, we blaming them and punishing them more.

Host (82:53)

Yeah. Well, that's the easy thing though. I always talk about left to right, left, right looking like a lot of times. What it's so easier to look left to right because these are the people you can touch. So it's easier to blame you. Cuz I could touch you.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (83:05)

Yeah.

Host (83:05)

Where it's like the big they, right? When we talking about the system, it doesn't seem obtainable. There's no one face we can put on.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (83:13)

Yeah.

Host (83:13)

And, and then it gets to this thing where then these people wanna be just and justified and given the benefit of the doubt. So it's like, well, you know, just cause I work for the system doesn't mean I'm a part of the system. It's like, well, I don't got no face to point to. So until I find a face to point to, it's all y'.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (83:31)

All.

Host (83:32)

And that's the same thing with cops. That's the same thing with everything where it's like, we wanna talk about this heroic plight and how dangerous this job is, we also have to talk about that it's not a requirement and it's also not required for you to get a God complex and wrongfully convict people or harass people or agitate situations that will end up in their conviction, right? So there's so many different layers and aspects of it, but what it all comes down to is the foundational practice of this system.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (83:59)

Absolutely.

Host (84:00)

And how that's never been uprooted. And if you don't uproot the foundational practice, it ain't gonna happen and it's not gonna change. And I think the thing is, it's a beautiful thing that people like you out here exist. It's an unfortunate thing that you have to exist in your circumstances.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (84:13)

Yeah. And I, but look man, I, I look at myself and I say to myself, man, I, I just thank God, bro, like legitly, I ain't invited. I'm not going to sit up here and stick my chest out like a 10 foot peacock and say I did it all on my own. I had some prayer warriors on my side and, and I, I, I continue to keep faith. But that, that, that what you're talking about. That surface level ain't gonna work. It's like, look, look, you know, you could change the faucet and put as pretty a faucet that you want, but that drip ain't gonna stop till you go down into them pipes.

Host (84:43)

You gotta get down in there. That's it exactly, bro. Honestly, bro. Thank you for coming. Yeah, it's been a while coming too.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (84:50)

Yeah.

Host (84:51)

But I'm glad we could make it happen. Before you leave. What's one thing that you feel like you want to just address straight directly to the people, something you want to leave them with and then where they can contact you. And if I don't want to start opening you up to cases because that can get.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (85:08)

No, I do want people to come and stuff like that. But also open to donations. Right. You know what I'm saying? Because look, how we are able to do these cases is when we have the resources to do them.

Host (85:18)

Absolutely.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (85:18)

So we just can't do them. And you're not giving money to Jared Adams. You're giving money to a nonprofit that can be written off and all that type of stuff. If you want to support me, look, look, look up Life after justice. Buy the book though. This book should be a number one bestseller because it has all the tools in there for folks who are going through the system. If you're going through it quietly, this book speaks loudly to things that you can do in order to get through it with your family. It ain't, it ain't nothing but $20. You know what I mean? It ain't, it ain't that much. But I'm telling you, I took three years to write it because I wanted to be real and be honest, man, about what the Process was, man, I never felt. Forget when I got to the chapter about how they strip search me in. In a bull pen in Cook County Jail, man. One of the most dehumanizing things ever.

Host (86:04)

But we gotta go through it, bro. I think the thing that's something that most people don't realize is that it's humiliating from the jump.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (86:13)

Absolutely.

Host (86:13)

Yeah, bro. You shouldn't be. I didn't have a squatting cough and that several times. That is. Yeah, yeah, that it's humiliating.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (86:21)

It really is, bro. You never forget it. You understand?

Host (86:24)

I remember actively cussing this nigga out while I was doing it.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (86:28)

Yeah, bro, I'm gonna tell you, I

Host (86:30)

was calling him the worst shit I could think of. I'm like, you wanna look at.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (86:33)

Well, check this out. And I put this in the. In the book too, right? This is, I think, why I remember it the most, right? So I'm. I'm in. In Cook County Jail. First of all, Cook County Jail is the largest unified jail in the country. And what I mean by that is, so I'm in New York, but. But New York is done with boroughs. So you got Brooklyn, you got Queens and all of that. Cook county is big as. I don't know what. And so that jail complex is huge. So when they. When they in the. In the. You in the bullpen, you come out the bullpen and you do the strip search and all of that, they got like about 30 people in a row, and it's about 10 sheriffs. And they making everybody bend over and all this old type of stuff. And I remember, man, being next to a dude who wasn't being disobedient, bro. He couldn't hear. Hear him. So when he was telling them, like, to bend over and all of that, dude didn't do exactly what he was asking because he was an old man. He was like, strung out on drugs. He was coming off a dope sickness. He couldn't hear him. And all I remember, man, is. Is a boot flying past my head and hitting him in the head, man. And it was a sheriff who done it, bro. And I was like, man, you know, this got to be. Not only is it humiliating and demeaning, but we got to be abused in the process, man. What the. Is going on in here?

Host (87:42)

Yeah, bro. These people assume the role of a slave patrol. And I mean, if on black and white levels, it is.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (87:51)

Yeah.

Host (87:51)

You go look at Angola. Angola Prison, you tell me what the difference between that.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (87:55)

That's in the plantation.

Host (87:56)

Yeah, you can't tell me the difference. Yeah, you're right.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (87:59)

And.

Host (87:59)

And for some, one of the biggest issues with, like, people that. That align themselves with MAGA is this. They want to live in the fantasies of the Jim Cross south that their uncles and fathers got to experience of superiority and power.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (88:17)

Absolutely.

Host (88:18)

That's what they. When they say great again. This is the great again.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (88:21)

Yeah.

Host (88:22)

And they get duped by that. Because those days, not only are they over, but even in those days in existence, the people behind those masks were oftentimes people in powerful positions.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (88:33)

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Host (88:33)

And they still in power.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (88:35)

They trickled into powerful positions.

Host (88:36)

You dig what I'm saying? And so oftentimes, the only what time that people get to play out those fantasies.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (88:42)

Yeah.

Host (88:43)

Is when they join the correctional office.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (88:44)

You ain't lying, man. I mean, that is exactly what it is, because these are babies in there. A lot of people don't know that, man. You being told what to do by people who are, like months off of walking off a high school graduation. You don't know it, but jaredadamslaw.com is where you can find me, Jared Adams Law on all social media handles, but also my organization, Life After Justice. Follow that, because that's where I'm telling the stories about the work that we doing to help folks.

Host (89:06)

Absolutely.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (89:06)

You know what I mean?

Host (89:07)

Jared Adams, man, thank you for pulling up, bro.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (89:09)

I appreciate you, boss man.

Host (89:10)

Absolutely.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (89:10)

Like I said, keep doing your thing, man.

Host (89:12)

We'll do, bro. This episode, 100 something. You know how we do. We don't know what number it is, but we know it's coming out and it's coming soon. We'll catch y' all next time.

Jerry Adams, Esq. (89:23)

Appreciate you, man. Rap I just want to rap.

Host (89:29)

I just want to rap. Yeah. They say without the proper labor, faith

Jerry Adams, Esq. (89:47)

don't stand a chance.

Host (89:49)

I put my faith in faith and stand on fertile land I planted seeds Adeline deed turning the trees before Rest in peace teas it printed the me.