Episode 143 - Josh Doss

Summary

Grits and Eggs Podcast

Episode 143 - Featuring Joshua Dawson

Host: Deante’ Kyle (Ice)
Guest: Joshua Dawson
Date: May 5, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode of Grits and Eggs brings Deante’ Kyle (“Ice”) together with political strategist Joshua Dawson for a raw, witty, and incisive conversation spanning politics, pop culture, race, media, wealth, and the unique contradictions of American society. The conversation is rich in culture and lived experience, with both men unfiltered in their takes on government, capitalism, the Black experience, and the future—from presidential elections to UBI to why white people lost their own swag. The episode oscillates between hard-hitting political analysis and sharp social commentary, filled with humor and memorable quotables.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Social Media & Content Monetization

[00:07–03:20]

• Opening bars on the challenges of creators being compensated on platforms like YouTube and TikTok.
• Ice & Joshua discuss how viral success can actually lower creators’ CPM rates and how platforms control everything.
  • “You think they... then you go look at your CPM at like 23 cents.” – Ice [01:18]
• Joshua expresses admiration for Ice’s direct-to-consumer approach, wary of platform reliance for Black voices.
  • “Our voice is too powerful and important to hope that Instagram keep fucking with me.” – Joshua [01:35]
• Reflection on how viral discourse is shaped by algorithms, highlighting the promotion of drama, gossip, and trends rather than substantive conversation.

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Political Power, Tech Companies & Trump

[03:20–06:04]

• Ice critiques big tech’s relationship with political figures like Trump, and the lack of resistance from companies like Apple, Google, Meta.
  • “They just want to like lick his balls for some reason I don’t like... I don’t understand what that’s about.” – Joshua [03:49]
• Discussion about the overlap of tech billionaires, data, media control, and their influence on U.S. politics.
• Comparison to the Obama era, noting that Wall Street tried to “punk” the president, but found Obama more resistant.

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Black Political Agency, the 92%, and Voter Energy

[06:16–10:23]

• Ice formally introduces Joshua Dawson—his career, accomplishments, and commitment to Black political engagement.
• Conversation about the shifting role of Black voters and political participation, referring to the “92 percent” (Black voters, particularly women).
  • Ice: “We’re in a real do-for-self space right now. That’s a very strong place to be in a country that’s constantly declaring it doesn’t give a fuck about you.” [22:23]
• Debate around advancing Black political interests vs. maintaining solidarity, and the importance of local elections even amid skepticism about the federal system.
  • “There really isn’t a place in this country for us to actually self-isolate. Every time we’ve tried has been met with attack.” – Joshua [23:07]
• Worries about political disengagement if the self-sufficiency trend leads to non-participation in crucial down-ballot elections.

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Leftists, Coalitions & the Limits of Compromise

[12:07–15:20]

• Exploration of Mamdani’s (hypothetical or symbolic leftist leader in New York) approach in politics.
• Joshua critiques the tendency of some leftists to avoid compromise, contrasting it with the right’s willingness to “finesse” for political gain.
  • “Politics is a game of coalitions... Where I think [leftists] missed the mark is they want to be really exclusionary with their politics.” – Joshua [12:18]
  • “The right will compromise on policy for political capital.” – Joshua [14:23]
• Ice highlights how left-leaning figures get little material reward and more intra-group criticism, while right-wing grifters are more rewarded by their side.

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Racism, Anti-Blackness, and Inter-Community Tensions

[25:43–36:00]

• Deep dive into anti-Blackness in other communities, both domestically (Latino, Asian) and globally.
  • “These other communities are raised in anti-Black cultures... it’s not an internal battle for them.” – Ice [28:02]
• Discussion of structural racism, colorism, and how anti-Blackness spreads and penetrates various immigrant groups upon arrival in America.
  • “It just goes to show it’s written in the code of being here in so many ways.” – Joshua [28:21]
• The trauma and vigilance inherited by Black Americans, how anti-Blackness is often projected, and different generational approaches to self-protection vs. self-love.
  • Ice: “Being pro-Black now is more important than protection.” [33:45]

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American Capitalism: From Racial Capitalism to Oligarchy

[36:04–44:33]

• Ice and Joshua draw out the inseparability of racism and capitalism in the U.S., tracing it through historic examples (Negro Leagues, music history, corporate power).
  • “American capitalism has always been racial capitalism.” – Joshua [37:11]
  • “If it was racism first, there’s never integration.” – Ice [37:42]
• Critique of “capitalism” vs. what they term “corporatism” or “oligarchy,” especially as big tech and finance giants wield unchecked power.

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The Myth of Black Capitalism & The Exception of Jay-Z

[44:42–47:54]

• Dissatisfaction with the idea that individual Black capitalists like Jay-Z represent achievable models for the broader Black community.
  • “We can’t base the black community off of your accomplishments when like, that’s not average.” – Ice [46:20]

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Future Work, AI, & Universal Basic Income (UBI)

[47:54–52:53]

• Fears about Black workers being left behind by automation/AI; trade work is discussed as a possible path, but with caveats about automation replacing these jobs, too.
• Joshua advocates for UBI as an inevitable tool for dealing with structural unemployment from AI advances.
  • “Americans need to start getting more comfortable with the idea that we’re just gonna straight up redistribute some of this wealth...” [49:10]
• Detailed exploration of potential pitfalls around caste systems and corporate accountability in an economy shaped by techno-oligarchy.

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City vs. State: Redistribution and Taxation

[54:14–59:34]

• Local political leaders (like Chicago’s Mayor Brandon Johnson) are working around absent or antagonistic federal institutions.
• Joshua and Ice argue red states are “welfare queens” because they take more from federal taxes than they pay, while blue states subsidize them.

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Code-Switching and Black Linguistic Culture

[60:44–62:38]

• Humorous digression on regional accents, code-switching, and “Black folks’ superpower.”
  • Ice: “We have a language within the language, for sure.” [61:18]

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Urban Growth, Displacement, and Infrastructure

[61:48–63:17]

• Changes in Atlanta since the ‘96 Olympics: increased corporatization and gentrification, failure of public transport policy due to racism.

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Academic Experience, Talent vs. Credentials

[77:10–82:25]

• Ice recounts high school experiences, the limits of traditional “academic” achievement for Black students, and how lived experience, creativity, charisma, and code-switching become real-world assets.
  • “There’s a tension a lot of times in the skill set that it takes to be good academically and then what actually makes you successful in the real world.” – Joshua [80:12]

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White Individualism, the Loss of Community, and “FOMO”

[86:44–89:54]

• Contrasting forms of community and empathy between Black and white American families, and the emptiness of white individualism.
  • “White people… they get paid in power and they use that power to be individuals.” – Ice [86:57]
• White people’s inability to join in Black cultural events due to the desire for control instead of community.

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Christianity, Faith, and Moral Contradictions

[89:54–99:47]

• Deep critique of American religious experience, its complicity in racist violence, and the cognitive dissonance of Black Christianity.
• Both men are openly skeptical of an all-powerful God who allows slavery and suffering, and raise pointed questions about moral accountability.
  • “If the God y’all telling me to serve… is all powerful and all good… where was he at when my ancestors were getting skinned alive?” – Joshua [97:13]

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Memorable Quotes & Humor

• On White People “Losing the Sauce”

  • “White people used to be white, bro. They used to make rock music. Some of that sht was kinda cool. Now they wanna be rappers.”* – Joshua [111:33]
  • “They're the first generation of white people to hate nggas and wanna be nggas.” – Ice [112:16]

• On Debates and Social Media Arguments

  • “I realized, like, this isn’t about the truth. It’s just a pissing contest.” – Ice [72:28]
  • “A lot of the best reads on people are just... real [hood] nggas that could tell when some sht's about to pop off.” – Joshua [82:03]

• On Capitalism, Race, and Leftists

  • “A lot of leftists were anti-capitalist before they were anti-racist. And I think… a lot of white leftists would be ok with a capitalistic system that helped them—but because it's not, they want to burn it down.” – Joshua [105:13]

• On Code-Switching

  • “That’s like Black people’s superpower… we real really are [bilingual].” – Joshua [61:16]

• On Sporting Excellence and Blackness

  • “Whenever a Black person is very dominant at a white sport, they also be kinda like, ‘I ain’t no ngga for real.’”* – Ice [117:01]

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Notable Segments & Timestamps

• Direct to Consumer, Social Media Challenges: [00:07–03:20]
• Big Tech & Trump: [03:20–06:04]
• Black Political Agency & the 92%: [19:08–25:00]
• Compromise & Politics: [12:07–15:20]
• Anti-Blackness in Other Communities: [25:55–36:00]
• Capitalism vs. Oligarchy: [36:04–44:33]
• Jay-Z as “Exceptional” Black Capitalist: [44:42–47:54]
• Future of Work & UBI: [47:54–52:53]
• Taxation & Urban Development: [54:14–59:34]
• Code-Switching/Accents: [60:44–62:38]
• Academic vs. Real World Talent: [77:10–82:25]
• Christianity & Moral Dissonance: [89:54–99:47]
• Comedy, Athleticism, and Sports Culture: [116:00–120:00]
• White Youth Culture, Appropriation, and Swag: [111:33–114:50]

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Closing Thoughts

This episode is a fast-paced, humorous, and deeply insightful exploration of Black agency, political frustration, culture wars, and how race, class, and power weave through every layer of American life. Joshua Dawson brings a political strategist’s analytical sharpness, while Ice’s “raw and unfiltered” lens grounds the dialogue in lived experience—both serious and self-effacing. The pair interrogate the system’s contradictions as only those navigating them from the inside—and outside—can.

For listeners, it's a master class in Black cultural commentary and political critique—peppered with jokes, realness, and wisdom.

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For further highlights, quotes, or specific segment breakdowns, please indicate!

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Woke up in the morning and to God be the glory Thankful for another day to tell my story Put my opinions in the universe and let them orbit I'm from the dirty soul with a dirty mouth My knee orbit miss things Things on me like a nigga nor big had to refuse them Cause my bitch no rest Fusion she gorgeous as I doubt my sons up and kiss my daughter forehead Tell them we gonna get this money to my pocke morbid. Remember living in apartments now we playing mortgage. I think for somebody who generates, let's say. Let's say you generate 1 to 3 million views per month and then another person that generates 3 to 6 and then another person generates 6 to 10. Like, there has to be a pay scale and incentive for that.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

But then what they'll do is your video that go crazy viral. They'll lower the CPM on it. So let's say you was making. Let's say your CPM was like 130. A video that you do 250k on is like crazy.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

But if you do 2 million.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Oh man, you're gonna eat off that. So you think they. Then you go look at your CPM that like 23 cents.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Like, what the.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, it's sick. YouTube does that as well.

[Ice]

Yeah, yeah, they got it. I mean, it's they shit though. You know what I mean?

[Joshua Dawson]

That's why I'm really like. I'm thinking about like how I want to. I, I. You know, I really admire what you're doing, how you. You going straight to consumer, like live shows. Like, I'm thinking more about how I want to be direct to consumer because I don't want to be reliant, completely reliant on these platforms. Yeah, you can't. It's just like our voice is too, I think, powerful and important to like hope that Instagram right now, Instagram with me. I'm not gonna lie. But what if they stop?

[Ice]

Yeah.

[Joshua Dawson]

What if they take my account? What if. What if they give me a community violet violation for notes for some. And then I'm gone. Can't find me no more. So I was like, I gotta. I gotta find another way to.

[Ice]

You know when the thing with Tick Tock happened? When the first. It was crazy, bro. I was on the app because they were saying it's gonna go away at this time. Yeah. And I'm like, man, you know. No, I believe it when I see it. Yeah, that went away, bro.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And I was like, okay, this social media is way too f. It's too, it's too controlled by powers that are not invested in me. They not invested in my interest in. They not invested in like the things that I care about. They invested in their own interest. So then I started to really like kind of go through, I get into like these little bags of like, let me see what they are promoting. And the people that get millions of views, they ain't talking about, they never are. It's always like, it's either, it's always goofy, it's drama, it's, it's gossip, but it's also like whatever's trendy. Like, this is the, this is the it girl and this is the trendy dance she's doing.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And this got 10 million views. Why? Yeah, it's an eight second video. You know what I mean? But things like the, the discourse me and you would be having, that's, that's, that's.

[Joshua Dawson]

Well, I want to get to that in a second. But one thing you said I think is, I'll even add to you said they're not, these platforms are not invested in people like us. They're actually not only are they not invested in people like us, they're way too willing to let people like Trump fuck them in the ass. Like, I don't know why these niggas got fuck you money. They never say fuck you like Apple, Google. Between Apple, Google, Meta, they could tank Donald Trump. They could make it so that every time you search his name, something bad comes up in the algorithm on Google. They could change America's entire perspective of this, man. Nobody's watching cable news no more. They're on their phones. Instagram could take every positive video that the Trump administration try to put out and they could, and then they, they, they, they just want to like lick his balls for some reason I don't like, I don't understand what that's about.

[Ice]

I wonder what the tax incentive is. Because there has to be an incentive right there, there's, there's a reason why then he, when he, when he gets elected. Now he's surrounded by Zuck, Bezos and Musk. There's a reason. I mean, Bezos had recently bought the Washington Post. You know, Mark Zuckerberg is heavily invested in data collection. That is what meta is. It's a data collection center. And then Elon is just whatever Elon is.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

When I see a nigga in a cybertruck, I'm like, man, it's just wild

[Joshua Dawson]

to me that like, you know, when Barack Obama got elected, the first thing that happened was after the fighting at the housing crisis. All of these Wall street dudes got him in the room and they tried to bully him. They were like, yo, you're the new kid on the block. You don't understand how Wall street works. But we're gonna tell you, you gotta do this, you gotta do that. And he did some of it. He bailed out G.E. like, he did some of it. But also his energy back was like, hey, y' all got us in this in the first place. So, like, calm the fuck down. That's when I was like, oh, this nigga. Like, he's a real G. But, like, the powers that be now don't see the president as somebody that they could even punk. That scares me even more so than, like, I would think that they would be like, we're so powerful, we could buy the President of the United States. They're not doing that at all. That's what confuses me. And so even, you know, we were talking about, like, Tim Cook leaving, the new guy coming in. Like, if they're just going to keep being subservient to Trump, bring it back to conversation we're having before we got to find new ways to get our voice out here. You know, like, it can't be. It can't be Apple meta. Like, these niggas have too much of a connection to the President of the United States.

[Ice]

What do you think that looks like going forward, though? Do you think that I'm going to ask you this after? Oh, look, Josh. Josh does guys. Yeah, we roll. Oh, we roll.

[Joshua Dawson]

Let's do it. Yeah.

[Ice]

Josh Dawson is a political strategist poster from Chicago. Leading black voter and economic studies for advocacy organization and electoral campaigns. Started grassroots organizing in Chicago, building to research roles with national entities like Global Strategy Group and the White House. These roles led him to be featured in several major TV and print publications. New York Times, Newsweek, and more. 2025 Doss was listed as the Route 100's most influential black leaders, honoring his commit commitment to civic engagement and encouraging political discourse. Highlighting historical historically unrepresented, underrepresented communities and beating me as the best Dress you still on that?

[Joshua Dawson]

He said, that's got chic.

[Ice]

I ain't going to hold you. What I had wasn't chic either. It was just that trench coat. I really wanted something for that trench coat.

[Joshua Dawson]

She was fly, though.

[Ice]

N. You came fresh as he. I was like, damn, I ain't winning. Yeah, man. Ladies and gentlemen, but I do want to ask you this. You've. You've Been, you've been in, in the, you know, in the political space for how long? How many years?

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, my whole career, I guess. Eight years.

[Ice]

What president was the first one when you came in?

[Joshua Dawson]

Trump.

[Ice]

Trump was the first.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

So from a person who observed the Obama presidency as to me, what seems like the last, like American presidency as far as, like how, like as business as usual ever since I feel like Trump got elected, it should have just been a clown show.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Do you see it ever going back or do you just see it getting perpetually worse?

[Joshua Dawson]

Stockhe, I don't think it's gonna get perpetually worse. I think even though a lot of the white, non college educated white voters in the south, in the upper Rust Belt that voted in Trump two times now, even though they really hate the system and want to vote against the system and would vote against the system again, they acknowledge the chaos that this man is. He's extremely unpopular. And I think the question is it's not gonna go, it's not gonna keep being a clown show, but what it will return to will look different than what it was before. That's the question I think, like, we gotta figure out.

[Ice]

I think that's where I'm at. Do you think it ever goes? Do you think there's ever a presidency in our lifetime that resembles the Obama, Bushes, those things?

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, I think we'll return back. I think we will return back to that. I mean, there was like a, there was a level of comfortability in that that I think people do miss. And this is probably a failing of the Democratic Party is for whether folks like President Biden or not. His presidency didn't encourage any type of infrastructure of continuity. Right. What he was bringing to the table was generally fine, but with his age, you couldn't imagine four more years of that and then like his heir bringing another four more years of that. So you just have a place where people are like, well, I don't know if we can keep getting like things out of a person that seems like he's almost at the grave.

[Ice]

Yeah, for sure.

[Joshua Dawson]

Maybe we're gonna go back to Donald Trump or something like that. But to answer your question, I think we go back to some type of more structured president for sure.

[Ice]

Seeing how mom Donnie is doing in New York as a democratic socialist and openly a democratic socialist, not trying to hide behind terms or anything, just that is what it is. New York is the biggest, like, it's one of the biggest cities in the world, let alone America. And seeing him affecting the change that he's affecting there. Do you think that the average voter across the United States, whatever, be more in favor of a president that looks like that, especially with his youth and. Yeah, he could do this for another 20, 30 years if he wanted to.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah. It's hard to say because you're right. New York is one of the biggest cities in the world. It's the biggest city in America by far. But it is so progressive. It is such a progressive city. And frankly, the majority of the country, when you look at where they are on issues, are not exactly where New Yorkers are. They're not fully on the place. If you have a plurality of folks that are saying things like Medicare for all, some type of cbi, UGC and stuff like that, but you don't see the rest of America just there yet. And so I think a candidate. Now, this is what I will say about Mamdani and Barack Obama had this. When you have a candidate that is that personable and charismatic, you can make. You can do some damage, though, like that man. You see how he had Trump.

[Ice]

Yeah.

[Joshua Dawson]

Smiling.

[Ice]

Yeah.

[Joshua Dawson]

And called him a fascist. Right. Right to his face, standing right next to him.

[Ice]

Well, even when they ask him questions, he don't fold, he don't fall.

[Joshua Dawson]

That's what people like about him, bro.

[Ice]

I think that, that. I think that the thing is, is that we've been taught that you play to power instead of challenging power. So he's a person that's actively, like, challenging power. Even when they asked him, like, basically they were trying to, you know, I think Kamala announced that she's going to run again, and they was basically asking him if he's endorsing her. Yeah, right. He's like, I'm not focused on the next election. Like, yeah. I'm focused on New York City right now.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Y'. All. That's. You know what I mean? But, like, they try to back these. These camp, these. These politicians in the corners. He seems like the person that's not always going for the politically correct answer.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Like what's real.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah. And I think people. I think people respect that. My question, or I guess as we're watching his, you know, him kind of be over New York is when you do have to play politics, because he will at some point, you know, he'll need Hochul to implement some of his agenda. How will he navigate. Not necessarily, you know, folding to some of the, like the Democratic establishment, but also making coalitions, because politics is a game of coalitions. And this is what. When we talk about leftists and stuff. Where I think they missed the mark on politics is they want to be really exclusionary with their politics. And you do have to find a way to say I don't agree with you on everything. How can I still bring you into my camp? And Mamdani's got a swath of supporters that they don't like compromise that much. Yeah, they don't like, you know, so I'm just curious as to how it'll keep. But he's doing a great job right now though. Yeah. Like so far for sure.

[Ice]

I think that mentality does come from. And just as an observer, I'm, I'm in favor. You know me, I'm like not a left or right. I think I'm left leaning with my politics as it stands, but I just don't trust politicians at all. And I think our government is extremely corrupt. And I mean I think it's, it's more evident now than it ever has been.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And I think with presidents like Obama, it's like it's very easy to be cool with the corruption because it's like he's got it under control. You know what I mean? I think with someone like Trump, it seems it just.

[Joshua Dawson]

You.

[Ice]

It just reeks of it.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Where it's like, man, bro, like this is what we representing. Yeah. I think, you know, we know what America is. America is what it's always been. So I think for me, the thing that I get from leftists and the reason why they don't want to be compromising is because they don't see the compromise on the right. And so I think it's a lot of emulating that behavior where it's like, well, they don't compromise. They seem to get everything they want, so why would we compromise? Yeah, but could you speak to that? What you see like when you say compromise and do you see that on the right a lot?

[Joshua Dawson]

You know, maybe I'm saying this because I'm fresh off of this little one hour podcast I had with Stephen A. But I actually feel like the right side of the aisle actually will compromise on policy for political capital. When you hear Stephen A. Speak, actually a lot of the shit he be saying is pretty left leaning. That's not the stuff that goes viral though, right? The stuff that goes viral is the stuff where he's saying some bullshit. But the fact that the Hannity's of the world will still welcome him with open arms kind of does show they're willing to use his platform to get more people to vote for their candidates. Even if he doesn't 100% sound like the thing. They almost don't care what you actually, as long as you're convincing people to vote for Trump.

[Ice]

Yeah.

[Joshua Dawson]

They gonna kind of be like, oh

[Ice]

yeah, yeah, Stephen A.

[Joshua Dawson]

Come on the show. You know, and so I'm, you know, is it real compromise? I don't know if it's real compromise

[Ice]

compromise or are they kind of finessing for.

[Joshua Dawson]

It's more like a finesse.

[Ice]

It's a finesse because of the platform. It's like, here's. So, so the thing is, is the left is like very, very vocal on social media about what they detest. So when I see Deviant Smith says this, even if the right doesn't agree with it, they say nothing.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

They let the left chew them up like they let the left eat them up. And then the left is quiet if he does say anything that is left leaning. Of course. Because we don't look at Stephen A. Smith as a political.

[Joshua Dawson]

No, no.

[Ice]

And honestly, honestly, I don't really care. You know, this may be naive, but I don't really care about Stephen A. Smith's political ideas, our ideology, because it's like you, you just, you for 30 years I watched you talk about sports.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Let's just stay in that bag. But what we don't realize is like, he does have a huge platform.

[Joshua Dawson]

That's, that's the only reason why started because like people listen to him.

[Ice]

Yes. And the thing is, is that with a 24 hour news cycle, it's only so much, especially sports. There's 24 hours of sports news happening all the time.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

So that kind of gives him a little leeway to get into other conversations and topics. And if his, if his audience is 16 to 25 year old black, black and white males, they gonna like, hey, you know what I mean? And, and we know the right believes in cutting a check.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

You know what I mean? That's why everybody grips to the right, because they spin the bread for sure. So. And they spend the bread because ultimately they care about the outcome. And they all are like CEO corporate Wall street that spend money to make money. So. And even if I'm not making money, I am making, you know, I'm making my ends meet. Like I want, this is what I want. If I got to spend X amount of dollars over here to make that happen. So I kind of fuck with that

[Joshua Dawson]

a little bit sometimes. I like how pragmatic.

[Ice]

I wish, I mean, it's just cutthroat, bro.

[Joshua Dawson]

I wish we were a Little. And when I say we, I mean black. Like people who do politics to help black people. I wish we were a little more like strategic and cutthroat like that. Like, what are we willing to break if it's.

[Ice]

They don't incentivize the people that. You know, here's the thing. If you on the right and you getting money, if you are grifting to the right and you getting paid for that, the people that seem to grift to the right don't care about the noise because they're making the money. The people who seem to be bothered by that is people on the left who are for the left but not getting paid by the left. Like, they're left leaning because that's their politics. And then they get called a democratic shield. They get called this, this and that. Like, people have called me that. I'm like, nigga, I'm telling y' all to burn the whole shit down. But you know what I mean, if you want to judge me off of like, the things like my politics are just extremely empathetic.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

I'm one was better for the, the nation in general. And I know that that is not just going to stop at black people, but I am for black people first. And I don't think that that should be controversial when we have a whole party that's for white people.

[Joshua Dawson]

I say, I say every time somebody asked me, oh, you Democrat or public? I'm black.

[Ice]

Yeah.

[Joshua Dawson]

I'll work with anybody that's trying to help black folks.

[Ice]

For sure.

[Joshua Dawson]

Anybody. Like, like you said, there's enough people out here that are focusing on their group. Niggas gonna be fine. Like, I'm. I'm focusing on my group. And historically speaking, the things that help black people help everybody else.

[Ice]

I mean, that's the thing. It's like, literally, Reagan will talk about the, the trickle down, but, like, what we talking about is bottom up.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, for sure.

[Ice]

Well, like, if you help the people that's at the bottom, it's going to help everybody else at the bottom. Because eventually whatever is targeting you is. It's like they've already. That they already did the. To us.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

So, like, this is why I think the. The 92 is unique in this aspect. And this is something I've been mulling over for the last week or two is that black people in general have really taken a stance of like, we're. We're letting the gates up and we're opening up the moats and like, y' all can fall in that water. But we ain't opening these gays because we tried to tell y', all, like, yo, this is what's going to happen. Like, they telling y' all what they going to do. And I don't know why you don't believe them, but I think that black people also caught a real understanding. At the end of the day, it's like, nobody is going to do anything that's going to be favorable to us or people that look like us. So y' all got it.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And I think that that that declaration of where the 92% and this is what we doing was very offputting for a lot of people, even other black people. But I think now it's probably the best thing that didn't happen, because now they're begging for our attention. They're begging for our input. They're begging for our involvement. And niggas are still like, so, y', all, what's for dinner tonight? Yeah, and I think that that's important for us as people that have always tried to save this country from itself.

[Joshua Dawson]

I'm struggling with it, bro. I don't know where I am with it, because one thing I know is that a fascist, authoritarian regime is not segmenting Mexican Americans and black Americans. It's just. It's. Everybody who is in the out group is going to catch that wrath. And so early on, when I heard people being like, oh, you know, Ice, that's not our fight, I'm like, yeah, not right now. Yeah, but billions of dollars going into a secret police, rounding up niggas. Like, we know where that shit goes.

[Ice]

Yeah, for sure.

[Joshua Dawson]

You know what I'm saying? That's not where it's at right now. But, like, it's a matter of time. But then at the same time, I hear you. Cause I'm like, how many times do black people have to come out and say, yo, this man is not just dangerous for us, he's dangerous for y', all, too. And then they get their hand slapped. We out and we. I wanna know your thoughts on this, too. I feel like black people, we're mad for giving, bro. Like, we're. We're very forgiving.

[Ice]

I think that. That. I think that's why I bothered even people like you. It bothered me at first, too. It bothered everybody. Because this is not the. Okay, so we'll say, like, we need to stop being so forgiving. And then the 92 is saying, yeah, we're done with forgiveness, and is like, well, yeah, you know. Well, you know, And. But I think the thing is, is like black women, they are always going to be in. In the lead of like, these movements and things like that. This is just historical fact. They've always spearheaded movements.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And I think that this is one of those examples of times where we just. Like, this makes me uncomfortable, but I'm a rock. And now, like, I think politically, just. Just. Just as it. It's not even as it stands, just as it looks, we're probably in one of the best positions we could be in right now, because black people really on some, like, y' all got it, bro. This, y' all country. Y' all running how y' all want to. We're gonna take care of ourselves. And I mean, we are some like, in a real do for self space right now. And I think that that's a very strong place to be in in a country that's like constantly declaring that it doesn't give a fuck about you.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And it's gotta be difficult for you because this is your whole career.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, it. No, it is, bro. I'm telling you. I toil with it because it's like, I don't want that to lead into us not participating in elections. Down ballot elections. You know, you have like, school boards and you have like, the dollar amounts that are going to come to, like, our communities. Like, this is life or death. Right. And so I like the energy, but I'm afraid how far it can go, mainly because, like, there really isn't a place in this country for us to actually self isolate. Every time we've tried to do has been met with attack.

[Ice]

Yeah.

[Joshua Dawson]

And so the reality of the. Of the case is, like, we actually do have to not work within the system, but, like, we have to at some point work around the levers of power in America.

[Ice]

Like, we're here.

[Joshua Dawson]

You know what I'm saying? We here.

[Ice]

Yeah.

[Joshua Dawson]

Even if you in Atlanta, like, you're in Georgia, even if you in Chicago, you in Illinois, like, so I just. I go back and forth with it

[Ice]

so much, I think, naturally, as you should, though I think we all go back and forth. I. I've still been a huge advocate for local voting and understanding your local government, even at the state level when it comes time for elections. And I don't. And here's the thing. This is like a very educated group of people that are making this declaration. They may not be. They may not be aware. You know what? They are aware that the. The community Larry Tubing they're talking to is not probably as politically astute or as educated as they are, but There has to be an understanding that we're all on the same page right now. And then it's like, okay, if we say green light go, like, we just got to be able to accept that they do kind of hold that power in this space where it's like, okay, when they say green light, go on this candidate, green light going. That candidate, I could trust that they vetted the candidate and that they trust, like, this is what's in the best

[Joshua Dawson]

interest of the black community, that type of organization. Like, do we have. Do we have that? You know what I'm saying? Because, like. Because there's going to be moments we need to say, yo, green light go. We got an opportunity here. Like, we can take the Senate seat. Like, I just.

[Ice]

I think that the women who have made this declaration as 92% are probably some of the most educated and politically astute people that made a politically astute decision to pull out. Yeah, I. I would say this. I would say that we saw that it did.

[Joshua Dawson]

It.

[Ice]

It had a. It had a. It had a micro effect on us with ice, but not a macro. And I would say not macro, because we wasn't on the front lines fighting.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah. That's facts. That's right.

[Ice]

It just is what it is.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

We probably could have been looking at something like massacres. And if I'm being honest, and I think even this situation that just happened, I'm. You know, it always gets weird when it comes to these situations, but the young lady in Texas, the police officer in Texas, the. The Latino woman that went on, like, a racist tirade, and she's a cop.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And, you know, they talking about she's on administrative leave, and people are saying, like, nah, she need to be fired.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Like, because that's just racial bias that you going into the street with, like, this is not a Starbucks. This is like, you know, you supposed to serve and protect the community, and you're in a black city.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

I think she's in Dallas. And then you sitting there saying, you don't. Like. Like, you saying it just like that. And then there's people in the comments. It's other Hispanic women talking about, I agree with her. Oh, what happened to freedom of speech? And then you got in their comments responding in with ice, like, yeah, all right, well, we want to do that. Like, we'll do this. And it's like, that gets nasty. Yeah.

[Joshua Dawson]

I'm not gonna lie, bro, but we

[Ice]

don't really have no allies.

[Joshua Dawson]

I didn't. It caught me off guard in my early 20s when I found out like the mass number. And I'm not saying it's all of the Latino community, but the percentage that really don't fuck with niggas, it really did. Cause you know, we grew up in the same hoods. Like I'm from the west side of Chicago. Like, it's a bunch of like Dominicans and Puerto Ricans and black folks, same grocery stores. Like, you know, if you into the gang shit, like n was banging different sets and shit like that. But like outside of that, we was in the same communities. And it really, like, it caught me off guard in my early 20s when I was like, oh wait, like it's more of these niggas that don't really fuck with us than I thought. Like, and to this day it's still like, it's wow.

[Ice]

Well, here's the thing. We don't grow up. We grow up with, with self hatred that is. Is anti black. And it's like projection. It wants you to hate things about yourself. But. But they, but those things are like battles within, you know what I mean? So it's not the same. It's a lot easier to get over anti blackness that's projected on you when you black. Because the adverse of that is, well, I have to love myself and if I love myself now, I gotta love my neighbor and then I love my community. And then anti blackness, it not only gets easy to spot, but it also is like, no, I'm. I'm pro black. Like that, you know, I'm black, I'm pro black. I think that is the thing that black people have to contend with as a projection from society. These other communities are raised in anti black cultures.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And it's not, this is not an internal battle for them. It's very external.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah. That's facts.

[Ice]

So it's not like once they get down with it, it's like, yeah, like fuck them niggas.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And you know, the rhetoric isn't something they really have to contend with because even if they are in close proximity to us, as they age, they'll segregate.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah. And I think it just, you know, America obviously has tons of different types of like racist levers, but I think it really just speaks to how foundational anti black racism in particular is. And it's written into the formula of this country for us to have a mass migration of, you know, Latinos and Asian folks coming into community and for them to be able to, not in plurality, of course, not the most of them, but for the ones that have. For them to Be able to adopt anti blackness so easily. It just goes to show it's written in the code of being here in so many ways. You know what I'm saying? Like, that should have been more difficult. Like I remember, I remember the affirmative action case at Harvard where all the East Asian folks were saying, oh, they're taking our scholarships. They're taking our scholarships. And I'm like, you really think these old legacy white professors who got kids that are trying to get to Harvard, you think the scholarship is going to the black kid? If there's missing scholarships, it's going to these legacy people whose kids got 3.5 GPA shouldn't be nowhere near touching a Harvard. Harvard.

[Ice]

Yeah.

[Joshua Dawson]

But they daddy got money and play golf with the President.

[Ice]

Like that's gonna go to the Asians that kiss white people ass all day. Like the who stood up and. And they still haven't been getting accepted.

[Joshua Dawson]

No, no.

[Ice]

And black people still have.

[Joshua Dawson]

Exactly.

[Ice]

Yeah. Because white people will use you. And they don't realize that.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ice]

And. And we can see it at the polls.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

So when we say X amount of. If we say 60% of Hispanic men voted for Trump and 50% of Hispanic women voted for Trump, when you go on your racist tirade, that's like, okay, ball game. Like, I already knew this.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

I go look at the numbers.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

But. And even to your point, we, we. This is American. Yes, but this is a global issue too.

[Joshua Dawson]

Oh, for sure.

[Ice]

In Hispanic cultures, this is anti blackness run rampant. In Asian cultures. Yes. Like, you know, there's a thing of, you know that. That's a thing in Asia.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

That's a caste system in Asia.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

It's how dark you are.

[Joshua Dawson]

It's like you go back to something with like the farm. Like, if you worked in terms, then you would get. You get tan.

[Ice]

Oh, yeah.

[Joshua Dawson]

And that showed that you worked outside with your hands, which was obviously less valued than you being indoors. And you'd get really pale, which meant wealth.

[Ice]

Yeah. You know, and. And Japan. There's places in Japan and I'm. If I'm not mistaken, Korea. I don't want to. I don't know the nose, but I know that, like, there will be times they go out in the sun and the hotter seasons covered up.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

So they don't get a tan.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

It's crazy.

[Joshua Dawson]

Wow. I remember being a kid, like being in the sun, you know, and all the other kids in the neighborhood like, oh, damn, you about to get akon black. Like, you got. We did it to ourselves. You Know what I'm saying? Like, I never hid from the sun, but I remember other people being like, you trying to be out in the sun. You trying to get darker. Like, and obviously, you know, it was funny back then. And then you get older, you're like, damn, there was anti blackness at 7, 8, 9 years old. Like, telling kids that any darker is bad. Like, that shit is wild, bro.

[Ice]

So this is what I mean about the projected anti blackness, but not a culture of it. We're not a culture of anti blackness. It's just projected onto us and people pick up from those things. I mean, we not that far removed from slavery, and we not. We damn sure ain't that far removed from Jim Crow.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ice]

So, I mean, if your gr. Like my granny dealt with Jim Crow. So, like, I know that, you know, these. The anti black rhetoric is just something that is. It's like front of mind.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And in some points, it could be seen as a thing that they're doing to protect their children. At other points, it's a thing that's like killing your child's self esteem. So it's like, how do you contend with protecting them? By killing their self esteem.

[Joshua Dawson]

That is. I really wonder what this next generation. Because, you know, I'm a millennial. Millennials. We had boomer parents. And then I think, like, Gen X had Gen Z. I'm curious as to what this next generation is going to be like, because the boomers, 100 they thought. I'm not saying they were right to do this. 100 they thought they were protecting us. Like, I wasn't. I. I love braiding my hair now. I wasn't allowed to do that when I was a kid because they were like, oh, you walking around here looking like they might mistake you for one of these little hood X, Y, and Z. Like, they're thinking from safety. They're saying very arguably bigoted things. But, you know, my name is Joshua. I have a Hebrew name, easy to pronounce. My parents thinking about me getting a job before I'm even, You know, before I can even speak. They think about, we want him to be able to be employable. You know, stuff like that. Like, I wasn't allowed to wear my durag outside the house. And I think our generation is thinking differently about protective hairstyles, like all these other things. And I wonder if we'll. We will raise our kids to kind of buck the norm. Or will we? Once you have that kid, you start thinking like, man, fuck all that. I'm gonna try to protect you. By all means.

[Ice]

I don't think we have the same protection mindset, because we didn't. I think the thing is, like, we didn't see the danger of those things that they did. So even though we understand they was trying to protect us, the information that we have now, like, we would rather be pro black than protect.

[Joshua Dawson]

I would. Yeah. But you think the rest of our.

[Ice]

I think so. For sure. You gotta also understand, like, this generation of talking heads are millennials, bro. Yes, millennials. I'm 35.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

You know what I mean? The way I talk. Yeah. My kids hear this.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

My kids would be. You know, my son asked me, like, yo, what? Like, what. What's up with white people? Like, what make them racist? And I was like. I tell him. Like, I was like, this is a thing that they cling to for power. Yeah. But anybody that hates somebody that much with no reason is just jealous.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ice]

And I was like, but historically, they use this type, this thing as a tool of fear to keep themselves in power, but they also can't deny the greatness. So they find a way to cherry pick the greatness and use it and then demean the rest of them. And we have these conversations. I took them to the Civil Rights Museum in Birmingham and, like, the look on their faces was like, bruh. Like, let's just leave. This is depressing. This doesn't make sense. But I just want them. I want them to understand and I wanted to be proud of who they are, and I don't sugarcoat the reality of the world. You know what I mean?

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah. I don't buy. I don't buy that modern day racism from white people actually comes from a. Of a belief that there's any inferiority between us.

[Ice]

They don't think they're superior.

[Joshua Dawson]

I don't buy it. I don't buy it.

[Ice]

I can't think you're Superior. Look at LeBron James, son. No, no. And Barack Obama. Like, for real. If we go politics.

[Joshua Dawson]

But even look at how they move. Like, if I. Let's say I thought I was. I really thought I was smarter than you. And it was inherent. Why would I take resources away from you? You know what I'm saying? You take resources away from people that you fear.

[Ice]

Yes.

[Joshua Dawson]

You fear how fast their progression could be with resource. You feel me? This has been separate leagues, like the aba, because you are actually quite aware of all the lies you've told them about themselves. You know them very well. You know, you told them that they had cerebral deficiencies and you knew that wasn't true. Yeah, and you just don't want them to know that that's not true.

[Ice]

What is that? Phrenology or some shit like that? What's it called? The science where they was, like, comparing skulls and shit like that? Yeah, I think it's called phrenology.

[Joshua Dawson]

Was it with the eugenics?

[Ice]

It's eugenics, but it's like, that specific. Yeah, it's just like, genetically we're superior and more intelligent.

[Joshua Dawson]

You knew that shit.

[Ice]

But here's the thing, and this is the thing. A capitalist and a racist in the room, it gets rough.

[Joshua Dawson]

What do you mean?

[Ice]

Because the racist says there needs to be a Negro league. The capitalist says the new girl league is more exciting, outperforming the mlb. And we have to integrate some of these over here if y' all want this to even be a thing.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And so we'll pay them less, you know, then we can. Like, this is where the capitalists and the racist has to come to a compromise about, okay, well, white. Like, we could let them in our league, but white men have to have preferred positioning or they can't come in front of the stadium. You know, all this stupid. They was doing, like, Bill Russell, probably one of the greatest basketball players of all time, but couldn't sleep, like, sleep in the same hotels as the rest of them or had to go through the back door or was still dealing with racism even though, like, the city is celebrating the fact that he's winning them championships. You know, it doesn't make sense. It's. It's stupid.

[Joshua Dawson]

American capitalism is. Has always been racial capitalism, though. I don't think that they're different at all. Like, I think there's no form of American capitalism that is not racial capital.

[Ice]

It's all racist. Yeah, but when I say that, I'm saying from the percent perspective of the person who cares more about race than they do about money. You see what I'm saying? And it's like. Then the person with real money comes in, like, look, bro, you and what you talking about, yeah, we're losing X amount of dollars. You know, the idea is, like, if it was. If it was racism first, there is never integration.

[Joshua Dawson]

I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah.

[Ice]

If anything, there's a. We're going to destroy the Negro League, but their way of destroying the things we created was to integrate them.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying. And to make as much as they can off of it, even if it meant putting a black person in a position of prominence as long as they're benefiting from that prominence, then. Yeah, they're two sides of the same coin. It is like the one side has hate, the other side just seeks to extract. They're both violent.

[Ice]

They both have been violent. Extremely exploitive practices. Right. Like, I get. I'm. I'm always disheartened when I see clips of like, James Brown performing because he's an amazing performer. And the first thing they want to do is talk about drugs, but they just like, you don't know who you talking about. This man was, like, staunchly anti drug most of his career. And I think it was like Boosie Collins had slipped him some lsd. And ever since he got that first high, he just was chasing it ever since. But he was like, no drinking, no drugs. You would get docked if you did that. Then I know this man was sober as like for the majority of his career. All these great things he was doing, he was doing that sober. And it's like, because the. Towards the end of his career, he was on drugs. Then we gonna put everything that he ever did and donate it to drug use. Yeah, this is not fair.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

But he's also black and it's just easier to do it like that.

[Joshua Dawson]

It fit into. It definitely fit into. I think there was a fear James Brown. People like James Brown. I mean, even Ella had this, like, effect. Lil Richard had this effect where they were so intoxicating to white people. White people, black people love them too. Don't like. I'm not saying that they were selling out, but like, white people really liked Lil Richard like, a lot, a lot. To the point where I think that they began to fear whether or not they still had controls over the hearts and the minds of the young white kids that were coming up. That's why you don't hear people talk about how black people created rock and roll that much or country music that much. Because as these artists got really, really big, to the point where motherfuckers was really white people ready to run through a wall for them Big. They're like, ooh, let's keep them down. Let's make sure they don't have too much influence. Let's slip James Brown a little. Little something something. Let's call him a drug addict. Let's. You know what I mean? Let's keep the control over.

[Ice]

Because they control the media, so they control the narrative and they're controlling your perception. And I think another thing is this. I always just think about this, like, if white people created rock and roll, there wouldn't Black people wouldn't excel at it, like, the way that they do. Right. Like, like, like I always am of the assumption that, like, the person who creates something is always going to be the best at it. It. Now, I could be wrong. There's a white person like, like James Naismith created basketball, but that ain't the same basketball he created, like, ain't playing that ball. But I'm just saying, like, it would be evident if y' all created, like, how good. Like, you know what I mean? Instead of. It would have to be a pushed thing. Like, Elvis Presley is, like, literally just stealing from black artists and, like, gospel singers. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know what I mean?

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

But even to your point before, I think one of the most unique parts about, like, the American experience is seeing how, like, how dominant black people can be in all of these different arenas and how the power structure has to contend with it. So keeping the hearts and minds of white people means, like, I can't, like, I have to almost. It gets to the point where I have to prop up these entertainers because I can't let you find out about a James Baldwin. You know what I mean?

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, I'm thinking about that because. And I'm still. I feel like I'm still kind of stuck on your first one where you said if white people created it, then black people wouldn't excel at it. I'm trying to think, what are things that black people excel at that white people create? And I couldn't think of that many things. I was like, I can't think of too many things white people didn't create.

[Ice]

This is my point. This is my point.

[Joshua Dawson]

This is my point. Like, what do they think other than

[Ice]

manifest destiny and, you know, we not the best colonizers. We don't do that.

[Joshua Dawson]

Well, yeah, that is wild.

[Ice]

I also, Black people also are very hesitant to participate in capitalism over group economics. You have to cherry pick black people in capitalism.

[Joshua Dawson]

I don't know if that's true. I think black people want to be capitalists now. Yeah, now.

[Ice]

No, but I'm saying, like, historically. Historically, very groups. Group economics oriented. Very.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, for sure.

[Ice]

Socialist, communist type people, like, you know what I mean? The. The town has to have the farmer and the businessman.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And like, all of our towns are. Even if we grew up in a capitalist society, all of our towns are based on everybody bringing what they do well to the table and it being accessible to everybody.

[Joshua Dawson]

And, you know, we use this word capitalism all the time, but we honestly kind of use it improperly because what we're talking about oftentimes is not capitalism. Capitalism, at least as it's theorized, encourages competition between different entities, between the private and the public sector, between large corporations. What we're usually what we're actually talking about. Now when we say capitalism, the thing that we hate is corporatism. It's when large corporations can lobby, governments can consolidate and actually it's quite non competitive.

[Ice]

Yeah. There's not capitalism in its roots like oligarchy. Like. Yeah, they really are. Like, like I was just. Because, because there's whatever it was that I was reading that came out. I don't like to say an article because I could, it could have been a video, but I do that all the time.

[Joshua Dawson]

I was reading this book, TikTok.

[Ice]

It was at the peak of, at the peak of COVID They talked about how like Amazon, Meta and one other company was operating the country in like a techno oligarchy. They had so much power and control and so much lobbying power. And that's the thing that we hate.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah. It's not capitalism that in theory is not capital. Now some people will make the argument that, that corporatism is just late stage capitalism. Right. That capitalism will always lead us to a place where large corporations will have outsized influence over politics and, and over government. Which I'm not going to agree or disagree with that. Like you can have your ministry on that. But yeah, we're past Kabul at this point. This is, we are living a corporatist oligarchy for sure. I mean when a thousand people own 60% of the country's wealth. Yeah, that's a. You know what I mean? Like we're not, this is not even

[Ice]

in a. I think the thing with Cat and we look at. It's very easier, it's very easy for us to call black capitalist capitalists because they're singular.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

They're not representing of a. We don't think about Jay Z and we don't think about the corporation of ROC Nation or any of those other things. Now we will understand this connection to him. But when we see Jay Z, the multibillionaire. Yeah, we think capitalist. That.

[Joshua Dawson]

What do you think? Like, what do you think about the whole. Like, like Jay Z's whole thing is like I'm, I'm trying to capitalist us out of our chains and follow my lead, make your business, make money.

[Ice]

I, I just think that it's, you know, you can't say you didn't exploit anybody. I just think that that's not fair. Like we know we've I mean, you got where your start of your career was about selling crack.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

The play that you made at Barclays center, like displaced a lot of black people.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Somebody had to lose for you to win there is that aspect of it. I don't. And I also just think that we can't base the, the averages off the anomalies. Like, he's an anomaly. You know what I mean? Like, how many people didn't make it out the crack game?

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Didn't go on like, bro, you made it out the crack game. You went on to be a multi, platinum, multi Grammy award winning, multi. Like the. The hottest rapper of all time. You're a anomaly. Nobody's. That's not the average person's experience anywhere ever.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

You. You overcome so many obstacles in your life, so it's like already doesn't seem feasible to the average person. Like you overcame like crazy odds.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

So we can't base the black community off of your accomplishments when like, that's not average.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

What is it? What is the. What is the deal for the average person? Yeah. And that's why I'm a big supporter of people getting like young people getting into trades. This is how we raise the average capital is by people getting into skilled fields. And especially for those who don't want to go an academic route, which seems to be more and more popular these days. People want to go straight into getting the money, but it's like you want to go straight to getting the money, but you go work at Amazon.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And like, nigga, you could go to IBEW or you can go get you a cdl or you could go to welding school and be working the same hours and making a substantial amount more money.

[Joshua Dawson]

Like, you know, I'm a little afraid of the trade route for black people. Not that I'm saying that we shouldn't. That they shouldn't do it, but I am afraid of it because of how we're innovating our way out of the need for some of these things, some of these routes. I mean, like you talk about cdls, these trucks about to start driving themselves.

[Ice]

Well, I mean, but then we also have H Vac technicians. Yeah, yeah. Welders and things like that. I do think. I mean, CDL is because what. It's what I did. But I do see like any. I think that there's going to be certain points of automation that automation can't really take over.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

I don't want to. You know, you're not going to automate plumbing, Right. Not Going to automate welding.

[Joshua Dawson]

Right.

[Ice]

And you may automate deep sea welding.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

But the average, you know what I mean? You know.

[Joshua Dawson]

No, I know what you like. And my argument is not that these opportunities won't be. There won't be any of them.

[Ice]

Right, right, right.

[Joshua Dawson]

I just, you know, we, we are moving like our economy has moved out from one that values, you know, we go from an agrarian society to textile society, turn the century. We go into the industrial revolution and then the information age technology. As we're integrating AI into the economy. I don't know what that will look like as far as some of these, like, we've already been losing manufacturing jobs, a lot of these jobs. Like, I don't know what that will look like. I think five years ago, naively, I was like, oh, these young black kids need to start coding. Like they need to, you know, they need to learn how to make apps and shit. And now I'm like, oh wait, that's not even. We're automating that shit away. AI is taking the code. We told everybody 10 years ago, we told everybody to become a coder. We don't need coders anymore. So like I'm, I'm like scared. As for where, where's the next stage for, you know, working class black people?

[Ice]

Have you thought about it? Where do you see it being? I mean, if you think about AI, automation and everything, just from your perspective, what do you think would be like a sustainable way going forward? Even if it is just, let's just say next 10 years?

[Joshua Dawson]

Honestly, I, you know, I just asked Governor Pritzker about this. We had a little interview. I think the answer is universal basic income. I think Americans need to start getting more comfortable with the idea that we're just gonna straight up redistribute some of this wealth and you won't necessarily have worked for it, but it'll be okay because this is how we keep the health and the wellness of society. And I think some of the most staunch opponents to, you know, universal basic income actually be the very working class people that would benefit from it. Surprisingly enough, I think the first step was we got to get more comfortable with that as an idea. And then I think secondly, like, I think it'll, it will to, to your point, it'll probably be some type of hands on job, but it won't be manufacturing. Like it will be probably closer to the things you were saying, like a plummet. But it won't, it won't be making. We're, we're moving away from making Stuff.

[Ice]

Yeah. I don't think we'll be making products because I think that even China. China is the. The epicenter of manufacturing and they're automating the shit out of jobs.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

How do you think, with techno. Techno oligarchy being prominent as it is. And then there's this new idea of techno feudalism, which is basically everybody is, for lack of a better term, a slave to the tech companies. What is your idea about, like, universal banking income? And how can it be beneficial to people and not just automatically put them in a caste system? Tough one, huh?

[Joshua Dawson]

That is a tough one. Because in a way it does. Like, I don't think that there's a, you know, a right answer to it. In a way, it absolutely would put us into some form. It's not the type of caste systems that we think about traditionally, but some form of a caste system. This is the goal of, or this is the job of the federal government, is to buffer the American people to go from one stage of economic development to another seamlessly. And I think the very first step is us trying to figure out what an off ramp of UBI looks like before we even start it. Right. So how do we get people through this new rupture that's gonna come from the integration of AI safely without going into a Great Depression? How do we have conversations with local and state governments about what this money will be able to do, where it'll be able to do it? So we can kind of deconstruct some of what the caste system psyche kind of brings, but also very quickly getting us to what does the future of American work look like? And I don't. I don't think I know that answer. Be real with you. I don't. I don't know what that looks like. I think it will be some form of a cast system.

[Ice]

Like, I think it's. I think it's naturally a cast. Isn't the thing that you're saying that makes me think is that, like, what is the. Where is the. What is the corporate sacrifice? So for me, the corporate sacrifice has to be like, companies like BlackRock are going to have to sacrifice. They're a stronghold on, like, controlling rent. And we can't just have affordable rent in slums. Like, there has to be a. An efficient middle class that people can buy and rent homes in with universal basic income. That's not slum the out.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And we're gonna have to do away with this idea of like, landlords as it, like owning. Owning a home and rented renting it out can't be a flip anymore.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Because if we're not gonna have manufacturing jobs for people, then we can't lord over where they live. It just is what it is. It's like y' all already own the majority of the single family homes. Y' all have to make them affordable.

[Joshua Dawson]

It's disgusting and like, I can't believe a generation of people who literally lived through the ramification of the first housing crisis in 2008 and some people who were around for some of the other economic downturns that preceded it can even allow a company like BlackRock to buy up all the single multifamily houses. And the fact that it's even a conversation that we're having after creating things like, you know, Elizabeth Warren created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Or not Elizabeth Warren, I won't put that on her, but we created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau for us to like proactively address these large corporations doing things that enrich them and make life terrible for everybody else. And it seems like we have to go through it all over again. We had to go through the robber barons era of the 1920s and then in the Great Depression in the 30s just to be like, yeah, maybe we shouldn't let fucking the Carnegies and the Vanderbilts own all the railroad. You know what I mean? Why do we have to do this every fucking. But yeah, I mean, I think we're have to do it all.

[Ice]

Women too. I mean we're in the 20s now.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ice]

Roaring like it's supposed to.

[Joshua Dawson]

No, no, we skipped the roll right

[Ice]

here at all. But yeah, I'm interested in your, your ideas about these things because it's like from the political analyst perspective, these are conversations that I'm sure you're privy to all the time outside of like whatever hot button issues are like about war and things like that. I think for the most part it's like what is going to affect the everyday Americans lives because like whether you're pro war or anti war and the government decides to go to war, they're going to war.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, clearly.

[Ice]

Yeah, clearly, clearly.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Whether they have, whether they have the

[Joshua Dawson]

approval from Congress or not, apparently you don't need that.

[Ice]

And here's another thing that is very prevalent. If Israel decides to commit war crimes, they will not be held accountable. So it's like how does the average person even contend themselves with worrying about shit like this? Where I know that you want to worry about it, but it's like there are no repercussions for their actions. Yeah, so then the next thing has to go to, okay, me, my life, my family, my community and my local government. How is life going to look for me if we let these niggas just run rampant with the war and war crimes? What are the conversations around how do we protect the everyday American citizen?

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, I mean I think there's two conversations that are happening cuz the protection from the American, the American citizen from the perspective of our geopolitical affairs is very apparent when we see ourselves spending a billion dollars a day on a war and gas prices going up 47%. Like that is an immediate impact on the everyday person. So I think how do we protect the everyday person in the geopolitical conversation? In the geopolitical affairs that's happening. And then everything else I think that I've seen is happening at the city, the local and the state level. Right. Like a good example is Mayor Brandon Johnson in Chicago, right? Like his approach has been like, fuck Trump, I gotta protect Chicagoans however I can. Right? So if he's gonna take $800 million away from our community violence intervention programs, I'm gonna have to find it somewhere else. We not gonna get it from the federal government, we gotta get from somewhere else because it's reducing the crime rate, you know what I mean? And basically the answer is a lot of these cities and states are getting very self protective and just making plans that don't include the federal government because you're not gonna get any help from them. But yeah, I mean I think it's going to look a lot like state level and city level redistribution of wealth when it can happen back into the communities.

[Ice]

I've seen this thing recently. I forgot what the, what the whole, I forgot which set it off. But I know it was about mom Dani saying, okay, we're going to tax these corporations, we're going to tax the ribs. That's how he kind of intro this drink. And then you get the state or the country or whatever of Panama saying like, hey, we have no X, Y and Z tax here. And they're trying to make it like they're basically appealing to these corporations that exist in New York or the rich that exist in New York, like, hey, come here, bring your business here, like consign your business here. But it's also like, I don't know what that looks like. I don't know what the average person in Panama and how they live in this. But I can also. You're also guarantee it ain't how average New Yorker. Yeah. And those businesses know they can't just pull out of New York.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

You know, if you're bringing billions of dollars revenue to this city, it's not. Yeah, you don't want. And take her to Panama, nigga. And then what?

[Joshua Dawson]

And then what? Literally, it's the. The taxes conversation. Really, man, it gets so inflamed because it's like, don't nobody want to pay taxes, bro. But we all. You want the roads to be fixed, and you want the bridges to be working, and, you know, you want the FAA to be funded, and you want. You don't want your plane to fly into another person's or another plane. And I hate that we have. Government has been operating so poorly to the point where people are willing to just opt out of any place that's talking about taxing them because they don't even see where that tax money is actually enriching their lives. And you know what's usually happening, honestly, bro, in these red states that are acting like Panama, that are saying, oh, well, we don't got taxes here in Louisiana or, we don't got income taxes here in, you know, Kansas or whatever. What's usually happening is they're just taking a lot of money from the federal government, from California and Illinois and New York that are paying more in taxes than they get. So they're still fixing their roads and bridges with tax money. It's just not their state's tax money. Like, they become a daddy's credit card little girl. You know what I'm saying?

[Ice]

It's like they've become a welfare queens.

[Joshua Dawson]

They're the welfare queens. The red states are the welfare queens. You know what I'm saying? So it's like everything is getting fixed with tax money. We just have to be better about redistributing that.

[Ice]

Is it? Is it? I don't see the red light no more. That's what I'm on on my cam. Yeah. Okay. I. I think that's funny because you say, like, oh, Louisiana, we don't pay taxes, or Kansas, we don't pay taxes. Guess what? Nobody wants to live there, right? Like, niggas want to visit New Orleans.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Nobody's visiting New Orleans. And like, oh, I should move here.

[Joshua Dawson]

Well, I just moved to New Orleans.

[Ice]

You did?

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, I did. Well, yeah, So I got. I can't let you get all. Without. But no, no, no. Like, you. You make a point. Like, it's tough.

[Ice]

Like, I'm telling you, I went to Charlotte. I was like, I kind of want to move here.

[Joshua Dawson]

Oh, Charlotte.

[Ice]

Charlotte's nice. I haven't home for me too, though.

[Joshua Dawson]

So is that where you're from?

[Ice]

I was born in Charlotte. Well, I was born in Concord, which is, like, right outside of Charlotte. And I grew up in Wilmington, North Carolina, until I was 13. So it's like.

[Joshua Dawson]

I feel like you have a very strong Atlanta accent.

[Ice]

I mean, I've been here since I was 13. My mama from here, too. Okay, so it's like I've been here everywhere.

[Joshua Dawson]

You don't sound like a Charlotte.

[Ice]

I've been. I've been here every summer since I was damn near born.

[Joshua Dawson]

That makes sense.

[Ice]

So if. If not here. Fayetteville, North Carolina. But I think the thing is, is that I don't have a strong Atlanta accent. And you talk to one of these niggas up the street.

[Joshua Dawson]

I feel like you do. Maybe I don't know enough Atlanta. You know, it's funny, bro.

[Ice]

You put you around some of them when you.

[Joshua Dawson]

You be code switching. Like, we all be code switching. Your shit. You got reigns with your code switch. God damn. One time you uploaded a video. I think you was drunk, low key, and you was. I was like, yo, this nigga got. He got range with this code switch. And this is a whole different. You really can, bro. But that's like black people's superpower.

[Ice]

Like, I mean, it's bilingual for real, though.

[Joshua Dawson]

Like, we real really are because we

[Ice]

have a language within the language for sure.

[Joshua Dawson]

What's. What's Charlotte slang?

[Ice]

I don't know. I'm not from there. I just was born. I was born in Concord, and then we moved immediately to Wilmington. So I haven't been in Charlotte. I went, like, when we was kids, maybe to a harness game or something like that, but it wasn't enough to be around. Yeah, but I just remember when we went. It was small. It was small and communal the way that, like, I wish Atlanta was at times.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

But Atlanta has become very corporate. So when they say, like, oh, the old Atlanta, the old Atlanta, what they talking about is when it was more communal and less corporate. Everything is so corporate now. Even like this last minute, you know, you get an opportunity. It's weird that cities don't operate, like, logically. Yeah. To say, okay, we want to bring the World cup here. First of all, the racism in Georgia is why y' all refuse to expand public transportation. So we don't have a great public transportation system. Unless it's basically for Nick. Like, riding public transportation in Atlanta is like, just saying, I ain't got no more money. Whereas in New York, it's just an efficient way to get around in Chicago. It's just an efficient way to get around in San Francisco. It's an efficient way to get around. Georgia is like, wait, so y' all

[Joshua Dawson]

don't really got public transportation and y' all don't got sidewalks? Cause I was. I was knocking doors for Everton Blair. Shout out to Everton Blair. He's running for the 13th here in Georgia. Go vote for him. I think voting starts on Monday. I was just knocking doors. Y' all ain't got no sidewalks, bro. I'm walking in the middle of the street.

[Ice]

You understand what I'm saying?

[Joshua Dawson]

How you get around if you.

[Ice]

Okay, but how you gonna tell the World cup to come here?

[Joshua Dawson]

No, that's wild. You can't.

[Ice]

Do you see all this construction that's going. It's just the last minute. It's like niggas just throwing shit together. But it's like, hey, when that shit leave, we gotta stay here, bruh.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

You know what I'm saying? Like, then y' all gonna do the Super Bowl 20, 27.

[Joshua Dawson]

Didn't y' all have, like, the Olympics at one point, too?

[Ice]

The 96 Olympics is what started the downturn of Atlanta.

[Joshua Dawson]

Every.

[Ice]

Any nigga that's from Atlanta, if you ask them, when did Atlanta start changing? It's 96 Olympics because they build up all this infrastructure and they forget that niggas are going to leave.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And then there's going to be people that have to stay here when they go.

[Joshua Dawson]

Sound like, you ready to move Chicago then.

[Ice]

I love Chicago. I'm going to tell you why I'm not moving Chicago in September through March, bro.

[Joshua Dawson]

People be overdue. It's not as bad. Nobody's overdoing it. As cold as our winter is, like, y' all summer, you just. You just can't really be outside that much.

[Ice]

We outside in the summer, in August, real rap. We outside, nigga. What? We somewhere where it's shady.

[Joshua Dawson]

It be. It be. Y' all got the sweaty heat, y'.

[Ice]

All. Shit.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Yeah. It's humid.

[Joshua Dawson]

You can't be outside in that. Y' all probably be musty. Well, I say, you ain't even deny it.

[Ice]

I'll say this. I might go to the day party where the sun is out, but it's shady and it's a lot of fans. And it's that I'm not going. I'm not going to the park unless it's like a very good tree to yard ratio out there because I need to be in the shade.

[Joshua Dawson]

But that's the crazy thing about y' all heat, though, is that you get sweaty when the sun is not even out here. Yeah, how is that possible?

[Ice]

We're used to it.

[Joshua Dawson]

Listen, we don't got that in Chicago. I'm going tell you what we do got. We got.

[Ice]

Y' all got the West Loop, and that's West Loop.

[Joshua Dawson]

You was in West Loop? Yeah, is in West Loop. Didn't even hit me up, bro.

[Ice]

First of all, that's crazy. It was palooza time. We went connected.

[Joshua Dawson]

You see how they do me, bro? Be in West Loop. Don't even hit Joshua.

[Ice]

We wasn't. We wasn't. Where we at now, man?

[Joshua Dawson]

Wes Loop. Who told you about West Loop?

[Ice]

I know some people out there, man.

[Joshua Dawson]

You know, we got.

[Ice]

I pulled up on them little from the.

[Joshua Dawson]

I did see you out there with them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're in South Loop, I believe, or somewhere. They all live together.

[Ice]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I said I was downtown. We had met up, got lunch, then me and my manager went to the West Loop, bro. That's a beautiful city, man.

[Joshua Dawson]

I'm trying to listen. Tell your people about. Actually, don't.

[Ice]

I. I actually. I haven't told nobody because, like, yeah, we gotta.

[Joshua Dawson]

We gotta start gatekeeping a little bit. I'm not.

[Ice]

You have to brace one of the most beautiful cities in the country. It is probably top three most beautiful cities.

[Joshua Dawson]

Nah, chill out. It's not. And it's dangerous. And we got bees. It's mad bees. Every. When you touch down, a be gonna sting you. Stay out of Chicago, bro. Don't, don't, don't. Don't do it. You live in New Orleans? I just move. Yeah, I just. I just moved today.

[Ice]

When I talked to you, he was like, oh, yeah. I'm trying to decide whether I'm staying in New York or move to Chicago. How you like I live in New Orleans?

[Joshua Dawson]

Well, I have a place in New Orleans, but I'm gonna do the summer in New York. Cause I'm gonna do more media and stuff. But then, yeah, I'm coming back to New Orleans, man. You know, I got some property.

[Ice]

Real nigga, man. Real nigga, man.

[Joshua Dawson]

I do be dodging Chicago winter a little bit.

[Ice]

Just be honest.

[Joshua Dawson]

But New Orleans is also. You gotta tap in with New Orleans. It's beautiful.

[Ice]

I bet. You know what I mean? I got some people out there. First of all, New Orleans has very rich culture. I love it when I. Whenever I go down there, it's like. Like familial vibes. You know what I Mean, like, they treat you like family.

[Joshua Dawson]

Family.

[Ice]

I think the thing is, is, like, I hate when black people talk about black people. Like, they're not black. Like, there's all. You go down there, it's dangerous. Like, nigga, you know how black people get down. If you over there with somebody, it can get dangerous.

[Joshua Dawson]

That's.

[Ice]

That's anywhere.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, sometimes. But I'm like, y', all, you never been to big city before? Like, it's. It's places where shit get active. It's places where shit don't get.

[Ice]

Literally, you never.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, you never. That's liter. And say that. And say that about other countries, too. And that's what blow me up. Like, oh, I can't go there, because that place is dangerous. And I'm like, you live in Detroit.

[Ice]

First of all. First of all, let's talk about this live there.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

So anywhere where people live, you can go.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Yeah. Cuz it's not. But I think this is. Niggas got to stop watching too much tv, too much media. Yeah. And because, like, the thing is, the truth of America is that you get smoked in Omaha, Nebraska.

[Joshua Dawson]

You could get smoked in Omaha, Nebraska. It happened when I went to college in South Dakota. Somebody got smacked in South Dakota. Like, it's. It's everywhere.

[Ice]

America's guns.

[Joshua Dawson]

We have more guns than people in this country.

[Ice]

Yeah.

[Joshua Dawson]

Like. Yeah.

[Ice]

No, it go down anywhere.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

What made you go to South Dakota for school?

[Joshua Dawson]

I played basketball.

[Ice]

Ah.

[Joshua Dawson]

In that Division 1 scholarship.

[Ice]

What school?

[Joshua Dawson]

University of South Dakota.

[Ice]

What state? What's, like, the mascot for them? I've never heard of Yoats.

[Joshua Dawson]

Oh,

[Ice]

point grinding.

[Joshua Dawson]

I played pointe. Yeah. Well, not there. I played. They had me at the three. But prior to that, I played the pointe. But, yeah, I sat out my whole junior year. I tore a bunch of ligaments in my foot, and then my senior year, I struggled. But we were good. We was good.

[Ice]

That's decent.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, we played ucla, we played Duke, we played. Played a bunch of national television games.

[Ice]

That's hard, nigga. So how you got from. How you got from Ballin to political

[Joshua Dawson]

analyst, you know, I think it was because when I got hurt, I had to just sit out and watch. And we were having a good year, bro. We were like. I think at one point we were like, 22 and 4, and I was just like, wow, I'm watching my Division 1 career just pass me by. And that was the first time I thought I was like, what? What's next? Like, what am I gonna do next? And I was in a poli sci class. And I really. I really liked it. So I just kind of started steering into it. And actually I had a moment with my dad and my grandma. My grandma lives in Inglewood. We were over there. We were just like, you know, cutting her grass and stuff. And it was a billboard. Somebody was running for office, but they weren't black. I don't remember what they were, but they weren't black. And my dad was just like, you know, I feel like we have so many problems because the people that look like us don't represent us or don't ever want to represent us. And so then I was like, all right, maybe I might go into politics. I don't want to run for office now. But back then I wanted to.

[Ice]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you are. You are a political consultant as well.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ice]

What is that? What's a day in the life of a political consultant? What does Josh Dawson's day look like?

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, so I do. I can. I conduct research, Qualitative and quantitative research. So that's just like surveys, focus groups. A lot of times when people are talking about there's a race and who's gonna win, who's up in the polls, down in the polls, that's all statistics. And that's what we do at Hit Strategies. I work at the biggest black owned political consulting firm in the country, Hit Strategies. Shout out to Terrence Woodbury and Roshni Nettinghati. And so usually we'll have, say, you running for office and you wanna run in the 13th district, but you don't know the demographics of that district. Is it majority men? Is it majority women? Are they mostly black? Are they young? Are they old? You need to have demographic data on your district. Then you need to know what are the issues that they care about. You could knock doors and talk to a couple people, but you wouldn't have a statistically representative understanding of, oh, this group actually cares more about school issues as opposed to, I don't know, healthcare. Right. So we'll conduct that research for them and hand it to them so that they can communicate with their constituents better.

[Ice]

So anytime somebody is at Congress and they asking them questions about numbers specifically, they got them answers.

[Joshua Dawson]

They be having them answers.

[Ice]

I don't know. Yeah, I don't got the answers right now.

[Joshua Dawson]

They be having them.

[Ice]

I know they do.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Okay, we talked about this outside. I'm a segue into this. But for one, as somebody who is so informed politically and conducts so much research and know what the numbers are and also has to sit and watch people sit up there and play dumb for whatever their agenda is. How infuriating is that when, like, you know, that we could be doing better if we just take the approach of a more informed and, like, inclusive society?

[Joshua Dawson]

You know, maybe I should be more infuriated by it than I am. Maybe that shows how disillusioned I'm getting with politics. I think I've been watching it my whole career. It doesn't make me mad anymore. I feel like my response to it is not anger. It is, how can I beat it? How can I be more strategic than it. How can we ask questions that expose the fact that you actually do know the answer? You're just not giving us the answer. Right. And there's ways you can structure your messaging and ask questions to expose somebody. And I think my approach has been like, okay, he bullshitting. How can we expose that? You know? Yeah.

[Ice]

So we was outside. We was talking about. I was discussing, like, I don't. When I started and stopped almost immediately debating people is when I realized, like, this isn't about the truth.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

It's just like a pissing contest for

[Joshua Dawson]

the most part, so bad.

[Ice]

And I love seeing people that can debate well, like J.J. from the gym.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

I mean, he smoked.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

You. You. I. You. You didn't. Did it on some of the biggest media platforms. Just smoke. Have you stuck on stupid.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

I know that has to be gratifying as an intellectual, but it also has to be like, one of those things. It's like, what's the point of this?

[Joshua Dawson]

I don't like it. I don't like it. And if I. If I didn't have to debate, I wouldn't. We're not debating anymore. Actually. Debates. Debates allow people to get their points out. Allows people to respond to certain points.

[Ice]

We're doing.

[Joshua Dawson]

This is a performance. A lot of times it's who can be louder sometimes it's who can have the best straw man arguments. I mean, these debates that we're talking about are rife with ad hominems and straw man fallacies and all other type of logical fallacies. It's a big game. But I think one of the things I do know is that some of the people that we need to reach, they sometimes do respond to thinking like, oh, wow, he smoked him in that debate. Maybe he know it. And then now, hopefully you're gonna listen to me talk about other things when I'm not debating.

[Ice]

Yes.

[Joshua Dawson]

I don't like it, bro. When did you debate?

[Ice]

Like, I never. So, like, early in TikTok. It was like, that was one of those things. I'm not like a debater, my nigga. I'm just saying a lot of people will want to talk to me about, like, my opinions and my. And my thoughts. And then it would be like maybe five, 10 minutes into, like, whatever live it was. And this only happened like two or three times. This is like early on this, before I was like, anybody on Tick Tock. But I'd be like, oh, this doesn't care about what I have to say.

[Joshua Dawson]

No.

[Ice]

And it's like. And. And they would say something. I would point to, like, what the truth is, what the fact is, and like, where you can find these answers. And they'd be like, oh, well, that. That could be fake news. Like, oh, all right, we. I'm cool. Yeah, I'm good on this. And that's when I realized, like, this is not about me proving this to anybody. This is about me being informed and aware and presented in a way where it's digestible to people. That's it. That's the only thing I care about. Because, like, that is literally how I came up. And it's like, I also stopped responding to people that just, like, obtusely disagree. Like, they don't have really any articulable disagreement. They just don't like what I'm saying.

[Joshua Dawson]

Right, Right. One of the things I like about your delivery and your impact on this developing industry that we have online is you have a stream of consciousness approach where when you're flowing, it's one thing and then another thing and then another thing. And then I see how your thoughts are building on each other. And I've never seen you debate or even try to debate or have a discussion, but I feel like I would get pissed to see something break that. Because whenever you land somewhere, I'm like, damn, that nigga, bro. I'm gonna tell you, you said something, bro. I think about this. I think about this once a week. You said. And you was at the end of a long rant, you said, why are we so concerned? When you was talking about the three fifths, how white people called us three fifths? Why. Why were we so concerned about whether or not they thought we were 2/5 or 3/5 of a human when they don't even behave in a humane way? I was like, this nigga ate that, bro. I was like, bro, I was. The whole day, I was like. And you know, bro, I'm a like, I gotta give you your flowers. Like, you say some shit that be so like, that is such a complex thought that you made so simple. Like, they don't even act humanely. Why would they be the judge of Hughes, who's you, bro? I've never thought about it that way. Yeah, that was fire. You do shit like that all the time. So I'm saying that to say like. Yeah, I don't think like debating. I like the way that your shit come out.

[Ice]

No, but. But I. I know it's not for me because I never like arguing with people in. In classroom settings. Like early on in high school when I like, I moved here in ninth grade, so I had to start a whole new school with. In ninth grade. I know nobody. I'm in a whole different state. And I was like, I'm gonna just focus on my books. And then I was like, straight A's, like, to the point where my counselor was like, we'll put you some advanced classes and like that. Especially literature. I love literature. So I was in advanced AP Literature. And. And then I went to her. I was like, after like six weeks, I was like, I don't want to be in this. I was like, everybody in here just trying to prove they smarter than that. Nobody gives a. About the work. And it's like. And because how I talk and because I'm not gonna try to like, out word with you. It's like everybody in here, like, trying to kiss the. The teacher at like, this don't give a. This got his degree. He gonna do this again next semester. Yeah, he not gonna be next semester. Oh, I wish I had Tim Johnson in my class again. Like, nobody. He don't give a. About you. And I knew this young, like, I knew he didn't care about me specifically. I knew if I was a great student, it would be a joy to teach me.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

But I know he's not taking me with him the rest of his career.

[Joshua Dawson]

Right.

[Ice]

And keeping me fond in his heart. It's like, this is the class. And it was this one kid where like, anytime we would break down a passage or essay and like, naturally the way that I relate to things is how the real world is. So I would be taking like from the Iliad and all this. And like, how does this apply to like, modern day. And I would do it with like. Like that was happening in my neighborhood or that was happening with my. And he'd be like, well, that's actually like, you know, like, bruh. Shut the the. And I asked him one time in class, I was like. I was like, bro, I'm one of the few black people in here. Is that why you always gotta, like, critique of my work? Because you gotta come and think about this from this big academic perspective that nobody give a about. And I could pull this from real life. And I say it better than you.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, yeah. It's threatening. It's.

[Ice]

I like that. And he's supposed to be like, start student. You know this.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Debate team. And he. He the head of the FMLA and all. And like, they asked me to be in these clubs. Like, not if this in there. I'm not gonna be in there. That.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And I was like six weeks in, I was like, I'm scrape. Just put me in regular.

[Joshua Dawson]

Oh, so you did go back.

[Ice]

Yeah, that. I don't like that pompous shit.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And I also wasn't raised around it, so it wasn't never a thing where I' ma just go to school. Like, I was never like, going to college. I had already made my mind up. Like, I want to be a creative. I want to be in the arts. So like, me excellent at this class ain't really going to do nothing for my plight because I'm going to do graffiti and I want to be a cartoonist. And you know, like, I had already given up on sports, but I did want to go to scat and I had like, already been building my scat portfolio. And so I was like, I already kind of was set where I was. And I think now if I would have went, I would have probably went into marketing and advertising. And, you know, I understand in that. Like, my teacher always was telling me, like, you just have a great market in mind.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

She's like, even in your art, like, you know how to take the concept. And like, this is like. She's like, it's almost like you're selling the concept. You know, how to draw attention to the thought behind the concept. So when we do Seven Deadly Sins, even though there's all this stuff going on in your artwork, I know exactly what the scene is when I see it. She was like, that's marketing.

[Joshua Dawson]

There's. There's like a. There's a tension, I think a lot of times in the skill set that it takes to be good academically and then like, what actually makes you successful in the real world, like, the overlap is not particularly salient. Like, you'll see a lot of people who are very good students who just can't figure out how to do real world shit, how to monetize themselves, how to take their work ethic or their intelligence and make it Blow it up. And I think a lot of times kids that are in that traditional academic machine, when they see people have these, like, these, you know, like, auxiliary skill sets. Like how you have, like, there's a real jealousy there because it's clear that, like, being able to pass this test or being able to. That's gonna get you. You're gonna do well in school. But the people who are gonna do well in real life do the things that you do with your brain. And they could see it a lot of times, honestly, like, a lot of professors and teachers can see it too. And then they have to make the choice to whether to tell that kid to stare into it or to be like, well, you're not being academic enough. You know, I had a teacher that was telling me that, like, told me pretty early on, even though, like, there was. I was like, a better student who's, like, academic. You shouldn't. You shouldn't keep going that route. Like, you shouldn't try to be a professor. And I want to get my JD and all that stuff. She was like, you have a knack for communications that we don't teach in these textbooks. You feel me? Because it comes from a lived experience. But being a black American, being in white space, being in black spaces, all this stuff is like, we don't teach that shit here.

[Ice]

Yeah. And then charisma, too.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, we don't teach that shit.

[Ice]

You can't even be taught charisma. Nor can you be taught, like, just the understanding of how to maneuver in a room.

[Joshua Dawson]

Exactly. Anthropology is the closest thing to it. You can take, like, anthro classes and maybe some psych classes. But, like, most of the people that I know that have the best reads on people are just like, hood niggas or just like, real niggas that just. They could tell when it's like, oh, oh, yeah, some shit about to pop up over there.

[Ice]

Yeah. Because the trauma is hyper vigilant.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yes.

[Ice]

And, like, that's something you just got to get out of life. Hyper vigilance just come out of life. Sometimes they come out the household, sometimes it come out the neighborhood. Sometimes it could just be a traumatic experience. They just turn that on. But these are also things that you just can't buy.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah. You know what's another thing that's kind of like that? Like, comedy is kind of like that.

[Ice]

Yeah.

[Joshua Dawson]

Like, you could study how do people structure their jokes. Strong premise. And this is that. And then, like, a lot of the funniest niggas, you know, just be niggas. From the hood, for real. Like, you know, they just have a knack. But, like, making somebody laugh is take. There's a level of intelligence. You have to. Have to like, read a room to know, like, what's working, what's working, what's not. But a lot of. A lot of, like, a lot of hood. I know, they just. They got that bruh.

[Ice]

So the thing is, is, like, the way that the mind is computing stuff in milliseconds.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Yeah. And this is like, it's. It's really. It goes from computing it to how I' ma say it. That's it.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Like how and when. Like, I know as the time has come. I'm talking about the shoes.

[Joshua Dawson]

Right, Right.

[Ice]

It's not right now.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, yeah. Just like, just roasting in general.

[Ice]

Like, we.

[Joshua Dawson]

We grew up doing it back and forth. Yeah.

[Ice]

It's fun, but it's. It's smart, bro. It's like there are, like, I. I believe, like, eight to 12 different forms of intelligence, and school only focuses on one or two of.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

So it's like the kid who can regurgitate what happened in the book. That don't mean nothing to me. Because also anytime. Eighth grade, same thing. Math, eighth grade, I was taking algebra. And eighth grade, this was the advanced course of algebra of math. And my teacher was like. He's like, you can get an A in any basic course that they're going to give you at this school because you don't need the wall. You don't need nobody to hold your hand. Like, once you understand a concept, it's off to the races with you. You don't even need to know what's going on in the book. She's like, he. And my math teacher was telling me, like, if I give you a formula, once you understand the formula, I could put any problem in front of you, you're gonna solve it. And you don't need like, X amount of homework per week or X amount of work sheets to get it. Once you get the formula, you got it. The thing is, is, like, you gotta be here to get the formula. And you the type of. That'll skip class. And like, that was what made it made me unpopular in AP Lit. It was like, y' all coming that high as, like. And I'm talking about, like, wintertime high. So I got on a flight jacket. My flight jacket. Rica weed. I'm 10 minutes late. I don't give a fuck.

[Joshua Dawson]

Y' all didn't have the dogs at your school?

[Ice]

Nah, I went to school in this bird like, what's considered like, I went to school in Douglasville, so yeah, no dogs. But I would just. Man, I'd be going that. And it's like, I might go to sleep. Yeah, anything. And it's like, but it was coming to take a test, and I'm like, yeah, this answer that. And it's like, would be looking at me like, what the. And it's like, the kid particularly, I'm pretty sure his mindset is, this is not fair. But it's also like, you didn't have to live my life either. So. Yeah, you know what I mean? If you want to swap lives, I'm pretty sure your shit is pretty fucking basic, bro. You just go home, you eat a sandwich, you get an allowance, your parents ain't arguing.

[Joshua Dawson]

You know what? You know what, bro? I go back and forth with this because, you know, I think it's. It's kind of easy to be like, oh, yeah, these little white boys, they be having it easy. They, you know, they, they kind of born on third base a lot of times and with wealth in their families. But these little white kids be committed suicide.

[Ice]

Yeah, they be growing up, they have shit that's going on with them.

[Joshua Dawson]

So shit be really, you know what I'm saying? Shit be really going on in their.

[Ice]

The thing is what they talk about this, the thrill seeking nature of white people is because they don't have like, structural obstacles to overcome. And like, the mind needs obstacles, it needs problems to solve. And it's like, yeah, it do seem like it's easier to be a white dude, but you also ain't got an I. Like, I never have to worry about my dad coming home and killing all of us.

[Joshua Dawson]

I'm saying, you know what I'm saying? Like that or even just like, you know, love. Like, I feel like the way that black families. And I'm not saying we perfect, but the way we love on each other is a little different than the. Like, I feel like sometimes there's a coldness. Like, I see how, like my white friends growing up would talk to their mamas. It was like a, there was a, it was a coldness to it. Like, damn, you just called your mama a bitch. Like, damn, mom. Like, what the fuck? Like, why are you cussing at your mama like that?

[Ice]

Like, that's crazy. Yeah. What of love. But it's like devoid of community. Because the way to keep white people in line in this country has been they get paid in power and they use that power to be individuals.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

They preach individualism. So yeah, he doesn't care about like the long term effects of his mom because his mom is literally just a role in his life.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

It's not like as personable. And this is just from my perspective. I'm not. I never lived a white life. But I think also another thing is too, what I do notice about white people is that they don't have cousins or nicknames.

[Joshua Dawson]

They don't be having cousins, bro. White people don't have cousins or they do have cousins, but they don't know

[Ice]

their cousins and they don't have nicknames.

[Joshua Dawson]

Like, I never heard a white person be like, oh, I was just with my cousin, I'm going to my cousin's house. No, that's crazy.

[Ice]

And our cousins is like, we get like extra siblings, you know, Bro, when

[Joshua Dawson]

I was living in DC, I had just moved to DC, I was living in 8th Street. And they have a festival every year, H3 Fest. And they, you know, they got the go go music. And it goes late. It goes late until 12 o' clock in the morning. And that neighborhood was getting gentrified by white people. And when the festival was technically supposed to end like 9, 10 o', clock, that's actually when it would kind of begin, you know. And the year I was there, some of the white people that had just moved in were saying to the black people, like, you know, technically it's supposed to end at 10 o'. Clock. And I had to watch all these black folks who have history being in 8th street doing this festival have to wrap it up because here come the white people who think that they're the police, right? And bro, you know what I really thought about when I was leaving? That I was like, I feel like white people miss out on humanity a little bit because they seek supremacy over it so much. Like, these are beautiful moments that you probably actually could be a part of. Like they not gonna tell you to, but like, they want to be the police so bad that they like miss out on human moments, you know, I'm saying it was like kind of sad. I'm like, damn, who could be a part of this right now?

[Ice]

Craziest thing before I got here, right? And I'm dressed like this and I'm going to get my car because I'm getting a rental because we got a show in Nashville. This white lady walks up to me and I'm standing there waiting on the shuttle. Shuttle takes you to your car at this specific spot. And she's like, do you know where we're supposed to be going? Because like, I'm here to get my car. And I was like, I don't work here. She's like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. But it goes to that point where it's like, you want to be in charge so much that everybody that doesn't look like you must be working for you.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ice]

Because they could have just joined the festival. Right. And they would have probably had to the best. They would have talked about that for years.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

But instead they need control and that's why they like quiet and they like, ah, like everything has to be like, it has to be the perfect temperature. And it has. Yeah. It was like, what about my dog? And you know, all this. And it's like, because it's like it is devoid of humanity. It's not human. It is anti human in its behavior. Because a human is like a collaborative, collective thing that we're doing.

[Joshua Dawson]

It's a collective experience. I feel the same way about American Christianity too. Like, I think, you know, like if I told my mom, who's a very strong Christian, oh, I don't believe in Jesus, what she would hear is, oh, you don't believe in God. Right. And that's not what I said. And I think like, spirituality is like a house and Christianity is like a room in one of those houses, but there's other rooms. Right. Like, and because Christianity seeks to have supremacy over the whole spiritual experience, I feel like Christians miss out on spirituality in a lot of ways.

[Ice]

Like they miss out on God.

[Joshua Dawson]

They miss out on God. Like they, they put a, they put God in a, in a box almost.

[Ice]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, because this needs to be easy for me to control and understand because I don't control or understand myself. And you mean to tell me that every other. I mean, are we talking about billions of people that don't believe in the same God as you are going to hell? Yeah, but if I was born in India, I could be Muslim, I could be Sikh, I could be Hindu, I could be all of these things just because of where I was born. I need to examine this.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

I need to examine what my idea of God is.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it almost like. Their vision of God has nothing to do with moral accountability. Because if you think that this all powerful God engineered the cultural isolation from Christianity for somebody who's Muslim or Sikh in India who might get approached by the gospel once in their life, but I get to get approached by my grandmama. Every time I go over her house, I get another chance to get saved. But this person over here gets one chance, maybe, maybe two, and it's just because of where they were born. But then the punishment is an equal amount of conscious torment in hell. That is not a moral God. If that is really what you believe God is. That's not. I should get a worse hell than that.

[Ice]

Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

[Joshua Dawson]

Like my grandma was telling me every, every week. So it's just like they have a strange relationship with spirituality, you know, it's a fear based.

[Ice]

It's a fear based belief.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And so, like, what is fear? Like, ultimately, if we think about the effects of fear not only on the body, but the action of how fear will freeze. You can't think in fear. Fear. Yeah, right. Think about, think about the cold chill that goes over your body when real fear hits you. And then think about what are you looking to do in that moment? Escape. You want to run away. You want to get away from it. A lot of people assume that when it comes to, like, physical confrontation that you will fight. Some people don't, Some people freeze, some people flight. But what about mental confrontation?

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

What about coming to the realization that you fucked up?

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

All you want to do is escape. It also, like, makes it where I don't want to hear shit. I can't even think because of my own thoughts. And then you're trying to tell me something I can't. So, like think about that as a walking state.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Everything is like, I'm going to hell.

[Joshua Dawson]

Well, they, that's the, that's the like, you know, for lack of a better term, the beauty of their indoctrination, where they start you off like you are, you're a born sinner. Right. And so that fear that you're talking about, it's in the infrastructure of their entire experience on this planet. And they're constantly working to undo the thing that made them a born sinner, which is, I don't even know what that thing would be. And the craziest part about it, bro, the craziest part is it will have a black American Christian looking you in your face, basically saying that the things that led to him being Christian chattel slavery were somehow a part of a divine plan for his lineage. That is a sickness. Beyond that is an unspeakable sickness that's going on in your brain. If you think, and I've had Christa say that, I'm like, well, you know, we wouldn't necessarily be Christian if it wasn't for slavery. You know what I mean? And our ancestors Getting pillaged and the forced adoption of this spirituality. And they're like, well, ultimately it led to something good. That's. That's crazy.

[Ice]

Yeah, but what like, nigga, what, what, what, what? You're a greener at Walmart, nigga. What's good about that, bro? I mean, I mean, tell me.

[Joshua Dawson]

It's not even like you, Richard. You're not even eating. You not even eat. Like, bro, you, you been.

[Ice]

You in America.

[Joshua Dawson]

Jesus. Jesus been the coach of your team for 20 seasons. Y' all niggas are still the Wizards.

[Ice]

Y' all niggas is owing 82 every season, bro.

[Joshua Dawson]

You don't. You not trying to try a different coach.

[Ice]

All you gotta do is be thankful, bro.

[Joshua Dawson]

Try a new coach. Maybe. I don't know.

[Ice]

But it's not like, here's my thing. Is this, is that. Yes. It's a deep seated sickness. Because the thing that if you try to denote divinity to your suffering, like, right, like raping and killing your children. Eating, eating your father. Skinning, Skinny. Putting your hair in. In couches.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yes.

[Ice]

Using your children as alligator bait. Cutting, cutting babies out of the wombs of their mother and stomping, stomping them. And this is God.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yes.

[Ice]

Yeah, I'm cool.

[Joshua Dawson]

I'm cool on him.

[Ice]

Because that evil.

[Joshua Dawson]

Where was this at?

[Ice]

Yeah, where he at? And, and where was.

[Joshua Dawson]

What was you doing for 200?

[Ice]

If we. If you say, like, you gotta think about this belief system of. This is something I tell my kids about the N word. Like, never let nobody play with you when it comes to that. How many, how many black people. The last thing they heard was them being called a. Now think about this adversely. How many black people died and the last thing they screamed for was Jesus?

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ice]

I can't, you know, I'm not playing. I can't play like that.

[Joshua Dawson]

You know, like, I feel like people, people like you and others who want to be real authentic. Like, I. That's where I came to. You know, I grew up in a church, but I came to a point where I was like, if the God y' all telling me to serve, by y', all, I mean my parents, every adult you ever trust. If you're saying that he is all powerful and he's all good, stop right there. He's all powerful and all good. Where was he at when my ancestors were getting skinned alive? And actually, I don't even know if I need to know where he was at. Because an all powerful God who does not stop that. If I'm being authentic, I don't even like that. God, for real.

[Ice]

I don't fuck with that.

[Joshua Dawson]

You know what I'm saying?

[Ice]

It's not even talking about. You talking about, like, Levi Strauss genius logo was the four horses connected to the four limbs of a black person and running them in different directions. And the idea behind jeans was four slaves. So I could see you when you out in the field. These have made billions of dollars off of this imagery and this can in this mindset and, like, a. That guy.

[Joshua Dawson]

And attack.

[Ice]

Great. And I'm not even trying to be disrespectful. I'm saying that nigga's ultimately the most disrespectful being on Earth. We talking about millions and millions of people, bro.

[Joshua Dawson]

If he has the power, you're saying. And his text. And this text we're talking about doesn't even. It encourages slavery. In most parts of the Old Testament and some parts of the New Testament, it encourages this thing. Slaves. Be obedient to your masters with trembling of heart. I mean, we can go all throughout the Bible and find places. All my nigga had to say was like, yo, don't be racist and don't kill people. Right?

[Ice]

All powerful. It'll be very easy to spot a racist.

[Joshua Dawson]

It'd be very easy.

[Ice]

And it's also very awkward to me to say, see, James Bwin said this. Like, the most segregated hour is high noon on a Sunday morning. Well, we talking about the church. We talking about two racial groups of people that believe in the same God. Can't even worship together.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, yeah. We.

[Ice]

We. We got to call in question. What we talking about.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ice]

Will come together before for football. Before. They'll come together for God.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

You understand what I'm saying? And so I can't, for one, can't fathom it.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

For two, also, I was always a child. It's like, I gotta ask him a little bit more questions. I don't know.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

You know, this is like the thing. The.

[Joshua Dawson]

The.

[Ice]

The. The. The. The story that most people talk to when they, like, condemn homosexuality is, I believe. Who was it?

[Joshua Dawson]

Sodom? Gomorrah?

[Ice]

It's not even. But is this in Corinthians? It was an address to the Corinthians.

[Joshua Dawson]

Oh, okay.

[Ice]

Yeah, right.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah. The letters of Corinth.

[Ice]

Yeah, right. I don't know no Corinthians.

[Joshua Dawson]

And why is you reading their mail, too? Like, you know what I'm saying? It's hilarious to them.

[Ice]

Like, how nasty was y' all being out there? Hey, bro, we gotta stop that.

[Joshua Dawson]

And I'm not a Corinthian. I don't know no Corinthians. I'm not a Corinthian.

[Ice]

I never met a Corinthian. And so obviously that don't apply to me.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, no, that's facts. It's like, I think they've made sense of a very, very chaotic world with it. And the ironic part is most of the chaos came from it. Like, Christianity has given. When I talk to people about this, they're just like, well, you know, Reverend Martin Luther King, Reverend Jesse Jackson. I'm like, yeah, Christianity has given a lot of, like, peace and comfort to a world that was ravished by Christianity. You know what I'm saying? Am I lying? But if that's what you got going on, I rock with you. But I don't like the evangelical nature of American Christianity.

[Ice]

Don't talk to me about that.

[Joshua Dawson]

You don't have to be. And that's where you get into whiteness. That's where the blurred lines between whiteness, white manifest destiny, and American Christianity blur. Because now you're leaving your home. Like, people was cheering on the Pope. They were like, the Pope going at Trump. I was like, the Pope was on a plane to Africa when he made that pushback on Trump. To do what? I feel like I read a book or two about white people leaving their homes and talking to Africans about divinity, right? So, like, the soft adoption of Christianity or like, the soft face that a Pope might have to me, does not hide from the violence that this thing has been to. To humanity, you know? And I can't. I can never get over. I know you got into it with. When you were to.

[Ice]

Oh, man. Listen, bro, the thing is, it's like, I believe whatever y' all say. I'm the devil. All right? People watch bread cost at $12 for this mask.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

How demonic is that? Yeah, it's $12.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah. These are the same people that kick their kids out of the house for being queer or. Or take food stamps away from the poor.

[Ice]

Oh, let's. Let's take it a step further. Let's talk about how this Kevin on stage is not only, like, one of the most upstanding fathers and husbands in the content creator space, but has also created spaces for all these continuous creators to come together on shows that he's creating, to not only get their first acting titles or acting credits, not only get their first experience on a production or movie set, but he's literally in real time making tens and tens of, if not hundreds of people's Dreams come true.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And then it's like this. Because he said, like, I choose to love queer and LGBTQ people. It's like, well, this nigga's the devil.

[Joshua Dawson]

Lost the plot. Lost y'.

[Ice]

All.

[Joshua Dawson]

Y' all have lost the plot. If you could look at somebody like Kev, Shout out to Kev, by the way, Kevin, he ain't asked me to be on the show or nothing like that. You know, I'm available. You know, I'm saying, do you think. Do you think Kev just thinks I'm an academic? Maybe.

[Ice]

Maybe he doesn't.

[Joshua Dawson]

Maybe he doesn't think I maybe gotta do something funny. I gotta do something funny. Yeah. Cause I need to get on that show.

[Ice]

I guarantee you, like, I've made Kev laugh. And he was like, gotta call that guy.

[Joshua Dawson]

I'm saying, bro, I knew I didn't made Kev a laugh a couple, bro. When I first started TikTok, I was only on that bitch making jokes.

[Ice]

Yeah.

[Joshua Dawson]

I had 100,000 followers before politics. I gotta get back to my roots. Kev don't think I'm. Kev don't think I'm funny.

[Ice]

Yeah. I mean, I think also, man, there is a. We always will talk about how, like, comedy and intelligence is intertwined or just like, creativity. Like, you're a very creative person. But, man, you be whooping white folks ass on cnn. Yeah, I'm only watching Fox News. Cause that boy Joshua giving white folks hell this summer.

[Joshua Dawson]

I'm back. I'm back on. I'm gonna be on Abby a couple more times. No, no, no. This summer I'm in New York and I'm gonna be on Abby a bunch. So we'll see. We'll see. About. Seen Isaiah Martin, he was on Jubilee. Yeah, the black dude, he be. He be whipping too his debates.

[Ice]

He be spanking ass.

[Joshua Dawson]

Spanking belt to ass.

[Ice]

He be built to ass. He also a Zionist. And that's where lose.

[Joshua Dawson]

Oh, is he?

[Ice]

Yeah, that's why niggas don't like him.

[Joshua Dawson]

Isaiah Martin.

[Ice]

Yes.

[Joshua Dawson]

We talking about the same Isaiah Martin.

[Ice]

Glasses, furrowed brow. When the white people speaking.

[Joshua Dawson]

Oh, really? Yeah. I mean, you know, I didn't know that.

[Ice]

For most, all you got to do is say blank has the right to defend himself. And it's like, yeah, you.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

But I think that I respect however well informed any black person is. And I respect also just months. I mean, months of going live and just making MAGA looking stupid as a bitch.

[Joshua Dawson]

It was a master class.

[Ice]

Oh, my God, bro, they've never met. I Tell you in their mind, they never thought a could be that smart. No, no, he's a genius. He's brilliant.

[Joshua Dawson]

He be saying.

[Ice]

I was gonna say genius, but that's. We can't keep throwing that word out. But he's brilliant.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, he is. And I like his. I like how calm he be.

[Ice]

He'd be so smart before he love it.

[Joshua Dawson]

He'd be like, okay, yeah, well then what? I'm like, oh, shit, we had free trade. I'm like, oh, yeah.

[Ice]

You know, the thing is, I've heard. I think I've heard him say this, but to our point about capitalism earlier, I wanted to say is that competition is great. You know, the capitalism is a system of competition is for the free market. Right. Until black people are. Are winning the competition.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yep.

[Ice]

And excellent in the free market, then

[Joshua Dawson]

we want some parameters around it, for sure.

[Ice]

And I think that that's always very interesting to me that these people are staunch capitalists until black people start winning that capitalism.

[Joshua Dawson]

This is kind of my problem with leftists. And obviously, you know, if you feel free to push back if you have a different thought, but like, I feel like a lot of leftists were anti capitalist before they were anti racist. And I think, I think that a lot of the tension we're seeing between white and black leftists right now is because they're realizing that the white people who were staunch opponents to capitalism were really only there because that system was not working for their white asses. Right. And so now they're like, oh, we gotta burn all this shit down. The same shit black people been going through for a very, very long time. And so I think a lot of them, a lot of white leftists actually are the very people. This is not the most, the majority, the lion's share of these people, but a lot of them are the people who very much so would be okay with a capitalistic system that. That helped them, but because it's not helping them, they want to burn it down. Yeah, a lot of them.

[Ice]

Yeah.

[Joshua Dawson]

I mean, I'm just cynical about white people. I don't know.

[Ice]

Like, you're not. You have every right to be cynical.

[Joshua Dawson]

But that.

[Ice]

That is also very accurate. Yeah, it, you know, here's the thing. Like, Imagine that. Imagine everybody that is in support of ice, right. Imagine like if they were Eastern Europeans and they started rounding up Eastern Europeans and those, it could be their uncles, their cousins, brother, sister, family. If it started affecting them,

[Joshua Dawson]

hey.

[Ice]

And now the people that used to be paid in power and were middle management as the economy struggles that middle management check that stretches far. That power don't feel powerful anymore. And it's like, hold on. I was supposed to win in this. I thought I was gone. And so, you know, the, the, the. The quote temporarily embarrass millionaires was. Is the way that most white people, especially white men operate is that, you know, I'm going to support this, this group of people. I'm gonna support the. The elite class, because one day I will be the elite class. And when they have to come to that, like, grueling realization that they won't be, it's like, well, we need to undo this whole.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, yeah, now you're there now. Now you talking.

[Ice]

But it took for your bubble to burst.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And that's like. Yeah. It's just unfortunate also, too, I'm not 100 about Isaiah Martin being a Zionist.

[Joshua Dawson]

So I don't want to put that

[Ice]

because I was looking it up and it seemed like he was returning Apex money or something like that. Oh, yeah, whatever. So we're gonna just cut that out. I don't. Okay, yeah, I don't want to on that. He's brilliant.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Yeah. You know, I had never heard of.

[Joshua Dawson]

Was it in his race? I mean, we can still cut this part out, but was it in his race that they were saying that about?

[Ice]

No, I think it was a. It was. Was he was blowing up on threads because of his jubilee thing. And then, of course, a lot of leftists started coming out and saying. I was like, I don't know if this is true. And also it was some people that I've been following for a while, and I like, trust. I was like, well, they wouldn't just say that, but at the same time, I didn't confirm that, and I ain't gonna on that, man. We're gonna cut that out with it and we just gonna call that brother brilliant.

[Joshua Dawson]

He is. Yeah, he is very brilliant.

[Ice]

I think it's very interesting to me to. To watch like the mass FOMO that white people are having white women. Very easy entry point to be anti American when they can choose to go at the patriarchy but not let go of the anti blackness. So this is the struggle for them white men. Very easy to start with capitalist and not address anti blackness. It's like everybody wants the entry point that doesn't hold them accountable.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yep.

[Ice]

So, like, even with me, when I talk about, like, you know, patriarchy, misogyny and things like that, it's like, yeah, I can benefit from those things. And I'm not. I'm not running away from that.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

I know that I have said things that maybe 10, 15 other black women have said time and time over again and you didn't never hear it until I said it.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah. That's facts.

[Ice]

Because the patriarchal aspect of it is like you going to listen to. Listen to men, you ain't listening to women, for your information.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Same thing will go to say most black people have heard a darker skinned person say this and they won't listen to them because of the colorist aspect. So I understand, like what privileges I operate in, even if I have to deal with certain, some of the same struggles. Yeah. But I ain't running away from either.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And everybody wants to start at the place where they don't have to be accountable. So for most leftists, it's like we're gonna, we're gonna start at the capitalist and not like, I don't want to think about the racial aspect of it.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Because for one, that's like an easy thing to ignore. That like capitalism and racism are intertwined.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

But if I'm a white person and I want to go at capitalist, I have to address racial biases. I have to address racism and anti blackness and the way that this country has treated black people. And most of them don't want to do that because it's not about what's better for the country at large. It's like, when are things going to be more beneficial to me?

[Joshua Dawson]

You're absolutely right. I agree in every way. And there's another group that I think you left out that I want to say explicitly. Queer white people. Where's my camera? Is that one queer white people? Dear Queer white people, you're still white. You are still white. I feel like we have to, every financial quarter we got to remind queer white people that they're white and that, listen, that's a good thing. You can advocate in ways that I can't advocate from your whiteness. Right. Like I see some queer white folks beginning, beginning to like, try to. They're doing like a, like a oppression equality game with black. No, you, you're literally a white man.

[Ice]

Yeah. Also. Oh, where's my camera? Cool. White people. You got your whole personality from black women.

[Joshua Dawson]

Okay, I wasn't gonna say all that. But listen, since he went there, you know what I'm saying? What's all the neck, the neck popping in there? What's all that? Is it. Are we just appreciating, you know? Cause we say the highest form of flattery is imitation. Okay, well, let's make sure as we're doing those things, we're protecting black women when they're not in the room as well. And also, like, it's okay that you're so white. I just want, like, just be white.

[Ice]

It's fine, bro.

[Joshua Dawson]

White people used to. White people used to be white, bro.

[Ice]

When we was growing up, man, white

[Joshua Dawson]

people, they used to make rock music. And this was kind of fire.

[Ice]

Some of the rock music was fire. I'm gonna keep it a bean. I wouldn't even put the condo on it. That was hard.

[Joshua Dawson]

Some of this was hard, bro. And then they. Now they want to be rappers. Dear Colton, why are you trying to be a rapper, bro? Get in that garage, learn how to play that electric guitar and make some. Make some money. Green Day. You got the Green Day jeans in you.

[Ice]

Hook up the amps.

[Joshua Dawson]

They had the slang. Their slang was kind of hard. They said, whatever,

[Ice]

loser that used to hit go crazy. I was like, damn, man. It was popping it.

[Joshua Dawson]

Like, bro, white people get back. Get back to what you.

[Ice]

They lost themselves, bruh. They're the first generation of white people to hate niggas and wannabe niggas.

[Joshua Dawson]

Wanna be niggas.

[Ice]

Oh, it's gotta be a confusing place

[Joshua Dawson]

to hate niggas and wannabe niggas, bro.

[Ice]

That's. That's like. That's. That's the purgatory.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yes, that's white purgatory.

[Ice]

Like, I hate these niggas, but I want to be like them because the

[Joshua Dawson]

generations before them hated niggas, but. And wanted to extract from.

[Ice]

Yeah, I want to steal, but I want to. Yeah, I want to be white.

[Joshua Dawson]

They hated. And I want to say the generations before them, they just hated. They hated with. With way more hair on their chest. You know what I'm saying? They would be like, yo, like, you'd be like, why don't you send your kid to that school? They're like, too many Asians at the school. I don't with Asians. And it was like, damn, straight up.

[Ice]

No Archie Bunker. Whites. Some blacks.

[Joshua Dawson]

Some black. But now, you know you trying to be cool with Tyrone and freestyle, then go vote for Trump. Hate with your chest. I. I feel like we have a bunch of PSAs to wipe you if you hate. Hate with your chest, bro.

[Ice]

I'm gonna take a page out of your book. Stop being fucking posers, nigga.

[Joshua Dawson]

Oh, that's a good one. Posers.

[Ice]

They used to be posers. You remember back in the day, you couldn't wear a rock band shirt if you ain't listening to them niggas. You couldn't wear skate shoes if you want no skateboarder. So stop hating niggas and looking like us Facts.

[Joshua Dawson]

I mean, white people had their own culture. They liked that culture. And some of that shit was kind of cool Jersey Shore vibe. That shit was kind of fun to watch.

[Ice]

Love. White people being ratchet.

[Joshua Dawson]

White people kind of had for a minute, maybe this was just Chicago. White people had black people wearing Hollister for a quick minute.

[Ice]

Niggas was wearing Hollister for a quick little second that. Summer of 09, summer of 09, Sperry's American Eagle and Hollister, that's how dominant

[Joshua Dawson]

y' all get back to being white man.

[Ice]

Y' all literally lost the sauce.

[Joshua Dawson]

The sauce.

[Ice]

Y' all lost it, bro.

[Joshua Dawson]

Chop that up. I'm putting that on my page.

[Ice]

Shout out to Chief KE for making white people want to be.

[Joshua Dawson]

I never saw.

[Ice]

I never seen a white boy in a Ferragamo bell until Chief ke, bro,

[Joshua Dawson]

Chief Keef had in Chicago buying Gucci goggles, bro, like ski goggles. He would. He would buy these big ass guys. He just wear them on the side of his head. And niggas like, yo, I need a 500 really powerful.

[Ice]

He didn't record at 16.

[Joshua Dawson]

That's what a Chicago nigga could do.

[Ice]

Yeah.

[Joshua Dawson]

Shout out to Chicago, yeah. Hell yeah.

[Ice]

Hell yeah, man. Shout out to Chicago niggas, man. You know, this has been Josh Dawes. Make some noise for Josh Dawson.

[Joshua Dawson]

Thank you for having me.

[Ice]

And you know, before we get out of here, white people just go back to being white.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yes, sir. You know, maybe. Maybe pick up a skateboard. Y' all was cold with that Tony Hawk. That was cold.

[Ice]

I ain't got a lot of Asians cooking them right now.

[Joshua Dawson]

Are they Asian? Skateboarding. All right, maybe you lost that. Maybe it's too. But. But you can.

[Ice]

I mean, you'll lose everything eventually. Let's just be honest.

[Joshua Dawson]

Take your time. Time, Bob.

[Ice]

Pickleball and golf is next. I'm telling you, I have never met so many niggas that golf in my life.

[Joshua Dawson]

Once niggas get a hand of pickleball, they're gonna ban it in America. They're going to ban pickleball.

[Ice]

Pickleball paddles will go up to like a thousand per paddle.

[Joshua Dawson]

They don' did with baseball.

[Ice]

They just raised the price. You know how much a baseball bat cost? Like 350.

[Joshua Dawson]

Dog, they trying to price out. They say they can't. Y' all can't have everything.

[Ice]

Yeah, we already got we got the Dominicans for that.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

We don't need you nowhere. We're gonna outsource this to the Spanish blacks. Yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah, bro. You know, I'm. I'm. I think after this tour is over, we'll be touring through the end of the year, next summer. Catch me on the green Marines.

[Joshua Dawson]

You trying to learn?

[Ice]

Yeah, for sure.

[Joshua Dawson]

I want to learn, too.

[Ice]

It seemed like a vibe, bro.

[Joshua Dawson]

My pop's been trying to teach me for a minute with it.

[Ice]

My uncle, like, they got the Cascade Golf Range. It was like Black. Black golf golf club over there, you know, they was doing their thing.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And then we got one on south side, too. And now they popping up more and more because Mike Will. Made it. Just made. Made it. What is Made it golf or something like that. He got his own golf club. We got Eastside golf out here.

[Joshua Dawson]

Okay.

[Ice]

Yeah. Is golfing out here, though.

[Joshua Dawson]

So hit me. Hit me. When you. When you really trying to learn. Maybe a little live stream it or something.

[Ice]

Facts. We'll go to the drive.

[Joshua Dawson]

I'm gonna be ass. I'm gonna be ass like garbage, too.

[Ice]

But it's like I'm a very visual learner. I learned how to drive from watching my mama how to drive. I was like, oh, okay. As soon as I get behind the wheel and I figure the mechanics out and how they feel, I'm off to the races. So once I learn the mechanics and now I catch a feel, I'm gonna be decent at that.

[Joshua Dawson]

I think so, too. I feel like black people could pick up shit like that. Like, you see Tiger woods and Serena Williams, I'm like, oh, we just haven't been trying.

[Ice]

It's another thing, too. It's like whenever a black person is very dominant at a white sport, they also be kind of like, I ain't no nigga. For real.

[Joshua Dawson]

Sometimes. Yeah, Serena.

[Ice]

But if we had like a. Like.

[Joshua Dawson]

No, there is a dude, though. It's a. It's a dude from Chicago. I can't remember his name, but he, like, he be golfing, but he.

[Ice]

It's a. That's cold. As at golfing on my Instagram. He cold.

[Joshua Dawson]

What's his name? Is he black? He got dreads. Yeah, that's the Chicago nigga. I can't think of his name. Cold. He's nice.

[Ice]

That cold. I ain't never seen that. Well, I mean, it's. It's Instagram, but he par every time. If not birdie, they gonna change the rule.

[Joshua Dawson]

This is what I say about basketball, football.

[Ice]

I'm like, let Cooper Flag have the NBA. Y' all got it.

[Joshua Dawson]

First of all, I could talk about Cooper ass all day. That nice. But, you know. But no, I always say black people dominate basketball because you can't change the rules halfway through the game. That's the only place a three pointer, always a three pointer. You can't change the rules. And you look up 85 of the NBA, black. Yeah.

[Ice]

Because they be trying to change the rules on Coco Golf. Like, every.

[Joshua Dawson]

Every match, I be seeing that. Yeah, she always getting into it.

[Ice]

She be eating grapes, cussing people out. Like, I got me up.

[Joshua Dawson]

She nice.

[Ice]

She got that New Balance money, too, boy.

[Joshua Dawson]

I remember, bro. That's funny you brought up the money, because I remember she was on. She was on Instagram Live. Somebody was like, she had just won a bunch of money. Somebody was like, oh, are you gonna pay off all your debts? And she was like, am I gonna pay off all my depths? She was trying to read it. She pronounced it B. Deps. Deps. Debs. Debs. She didn't know what that shit was. And Kevin on stage was like, this is the type of wealth I'm trying to have.

[Ice]

Yeah. I don't even.

[Joshua Dawson]

She don't even know what debt is. She ain't even never read that word. She said debs. Depths.

[Ice]

She has no idea what debt is.

[Joshua Dawson]

What is that? I'm like, I'm trying to get there.

[Ice]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll get there on the golf course.

[Joshua Dawson]

Okay, okay.

[Ice]

I'm with it.

[Joshua Dawson]

I'm with it.

[Ice]

We sure it can't just be niggas that is retiring from the NBA playing golf? You got to be your everyday. You know what I mean?

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, that's interesting, because more of the NBA is becoming biracial. It's a lot of. It's a lot of.

[Ice]

It's a lot of Aidens and James. A lot of Aidens in the NBA now, man.

[Joshua Dawson]

And they don't. They don't got that.

[Ice]

They ain't got that dog in them, dog. You ain't gonna get no Kevin Garnett out of them.

[Joshua Dawson]

Ah, them, they.

[Ice]

They got.

[Joshua Dawson]

They got white mamas.

[Ice]

All of them got white mamas. All of them got white mamas because all they daddies is in the white women. And then here comes this. Yeah, then you get Klay Thompson, you know what I'm saying? But shout out to Clay.

[Joshua Dawson]

He date black women, though.

[Ice]

Shout out to Clay. We gotta let me land. Shout out to Clay. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? Shout out to him. He know what he doing, bro.

[Joshua Dawson]

You know what surprised me? You know Noah Lyles?

[Ice]

Yeah.

[Joshua Dawson]

I was kind of surprised to find out that he was with a black woman. Don't he kind of seem. No, this is no shade. There's no shade to anybody with a white partner. Love is love. I truly believe that. But I, I, I. When I saw his fiance was.

[Ice]

I was like, oh, yeah, I understand something about Noah Lyles, man. I think autistic.

[Joshua Dawson]

He has to be. He's something, right?

[Ice]

Like, yeah, on the spectrum,

[Joshua Dawson]

Bro. Even. Wait, did you see the video where he started judging? He went immediately, he said, oh, listen,

[Ice]

he went to critique because it's not that he don't like her. He's on the spectrum. That nigga automatically seen 15 things. He ain't like,

[Joshua Dawson]

bro, you see Beyonce in a wedding dress for the first time.

[Ice]

He said, I didn't think you would

[Joshua Dawson]

go with that one. What's wrong with you?

[Ice]

Let me style it. Let me style the man. She on the man.

[Joshua Dawson]

And you know what?

[Ice]

You know what's even crazier then to put that out?

[Joshua Dawson]

Yes. And they posted.

[Ice]

Them niggas posted that. They was like, you know what?

[Joshua Dawson]

No, he's different, bro. He's different.

[Ice]

Like, she was like, that's just Noah.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, he kind of sound like an anime character, too, when he talks. Like, I heard him one time, he's like, I'm the fastest man alive. And I was like, oh, okay. You sound like Vegeta a little bit, don't he?

[Ice]

You know that nigga watching.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, he killed or something. But, you know, shout out to Noah Lyles with his black. His black partner. Love that. I didn't think that he would have one.

[Ice]

So, I mean, that's just real, bro. You know what I'm saying? That's just. That just. That's just the order operations.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

You know what I'm saying?

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

If I had to deduct, you know what I'm saying? If I had to deduce what I think this would be with, it would be a white woman. But that's fine. Yeah, I'm glad he not with one. You know what I'm saying? Shout out to that.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

Being the fastest on earth. And that means y' all son gonna be crazy.

[Joshua Dawson]

That's so. Yeah, that's true. That's true. That's true.

[Ice]

I wonder who Wimby, you know what I'm saying?

[Joshua Dawson]

He does not date. There's no way he dates black women. You think he dates black women? He's French.

[Ice]

And when we gonna pop out with a sister, man? Watch.

[Joshua Dawson]

Really?

[Ice]

I don't know if it's true. I'm just speculating.

[Joshua Dawson]

He's gonna have a white girl.

[Ice]

I wasn't surprised when we've seen American

[Joshua Dawson]

black women, but he looks up to Tim Duncan. And Tim Duncan is married to a

[Ice]

white from the Virgin Islands, dog.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, he's different.

[Ice]

Tim Duncan shout out to the. The. His hall of Fame induction and singing sandals.

[Joshua Dawson]

Did he really?

[Ice]

No, that's the. He would do, though. Yeah.

[Joshua Dawson]

I feel like we'll be gonna have a white girl. But it's cool though, because he's. I think he's. You know, he's.

[Ice]

He's French.

[Joshua Dawson]

Mixed.

[Ice]

People can have white. I think that's it. Yeah, yeah. Nobody's gonna. I'm. I'm really interested into the next because here's the thing about golf too. It is an individual thing. You really can't. Can't a over and golf.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

It's you versus you.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

So it is just about having, like, mental fortitude and your mechanics on point and like, shout out to, like, yo, as long as you don't drink and drive, bro, you're gonna be decent in that. Like, What's wrong? What's wrong with this podcast?

[Joshua Dawson]

You know?

[Ice]

You know what I'm saying?

[Joshua Dawson]

That nigga's also autistic. I'm sorry. Autistic, man, that gotta be something, bro. And you know what's crazy?

[Ice]

Bro gonna keep drinking and driving. That's what you don't understand about this. He gonna do it again.

[Joshua Dawson]

You know what's crazy? The craziest thing about it. Tiger woods is a billionaire. He could never drive again. He's doing that for the love of the game, bro. He's in, bro.

[Ice]

It's in him.

[Joshua Dawson]

Like, when they get that, he be looking a mess.

[Ice]

He like, yup, I'm back.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, what you gonna do, bruh?

[Ice]

Like, what you gonna do?

[Joshua Dawson]

And that's a life lesson. Like, do what you love.

[Ice]

Can't take the money.

[Joshua Dawson]

Do what you love. The sun is nice too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ice]

Come on, man. He doing what he seen his father do.

[Joshua Dawson]

Oh, hopefully not. He gonna be in the golf cart of three Kool aids in a goddamn

[Ice]

Tiger. Said, this how you got hoes. You gotta drink. Drink a drink. You know what I'm saying?

[Joshua Dawson]

Oh, shit, bro. Remember when Tiger woods wife got busted, his car. His car windows out, and it was like national news that he had cheated on his wife? I don't know why that was such a big story.

[Ice]

Cause he was black and he was.

[Joshua Dawson]

Was the best. I feel like all the athletes be cheating on their wives.

[Ice]

Cheating on their wives.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah. All professional athletes except LeBron. LeBron no cheat, but yeah, shout out, LeBron. Shout out LeBron James. Only black man that no cheat, but

[Ice]

shout out to LeBron James for just being solid, bro.

[Joshua Dawson]

Solid as.

[Ice]

You know what I'm saying? Solid as just a solid man all around, you know, hey, I've only heard good things.

[Joshua Dawson]

I've only heard good things that were credible. Yes.

[Ice]

That was a joke about what he said when they asked him about Israel.

[Joshua Dawson]

Oh, Israel.

[Ice]

I didn't think I was gonna have to explain the joke. It kind of took the punch out

[Joshua Dawson]

of it a little bit, bruh. When he said that, I was like, that can't be possible.

[Ice]

Listen, my kid, there's no way.

[Joshua Dawson]

There's just no way. You know every rap and you only heard good things. There's just no way. And you only heard the King Day

[Ice]

Shoes, the Memphis Hotel. I was like, this nigga LeBron is really going for the money. He going for the gusto at the last. He's definitely retiring after this. Cause he is like slowly undoing a 22 year legacy.

[Joshua Dawson]

I really wish somebody would have been like, you only heard good things. Okay, what did you hear? Yeah, tell me, tell me one of them. Because I don't know what they are. Give me three of them.

[Ice]

But you gotta also understand that this is a. That was interviewing about a book he hadn't even opened. You know, LeBron's a funny man. Yeah, he's unironically just hilarious as hell.

[Joshua Dawson]

No, he truly is, bruh. With the. The book is funny, but also just how he be capping.

[Ice]

He's a capper.

[Joshua Dawson]

I. I seek to cap the way he like, he. That's admiration. Like, I, I admire how he capped, bro. He was like, like, didn't he. Didn't he say like, oh yeah, I was watching Kobe's game, I knew he was gonna have 80. And then they like pulled the records and he was like playing that night. Like, he was like. Also like, he was like. I was in front of the television with my friend. It's like, LeBron, we have the Internet. Like, we listen, bro. Another that does it for the love of the game.

[Ice]

Yes, LeBron. I gotta, like, I gotta do something. Yeah, I need something. These lies, they keep me. Like when I lie. When I get to lie to a. I get to sleep at night. You know what I'm saying? You know, Tiger woods, he could uber. But what's the fun in that? You know what I'm saying? Like, what's the fun in that?

[Joshua Dawson]

Live and let live. Yeah. You gotta respect it. Don't drink and drive, kids, but shout

[Ice]

out to the goat. Tiger woods, man. You know what I'm saying? Shout out to the other goat. Lebron James, but shout out to the super goat. Michael Jordan just choking white people on the racetrack and pinching white boys asses. Like, what's up off the mic? Cheddar cheese. Cheddar cheese in the eyes. He off a fifth of Jack. He choking a. And kissing him on the head. And did you see how stiff that was? He's like, I know Mike over there running the plantation, son. He's Jordan. The Jordan NASCAR team is Mike's plantation. He not around over there.

[Joshua Dawson]

This is the thing you got to know about Michael Jordan. He been drunk since 2004. Like, a consistent. A consistent drunk.

[Ice]

Really? Since, like, 92?

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, really. Really, since 92.

[Ice]

Cause you remember when he started with the. With the. He started with the Bulls. Yeah. He was like, oh, I ain't doing cocaine and alcohol.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

And then he was with the Bulls a little while. He was like, bring on the cocaine. I get it now. I get it.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah. No, he's been a steady drunk for a solid. For a solid, like 16, 17 years. It's not. It's not all the way up here. Yeah, but it's not sober every morning. You just gotta feed the demon a little bit. That's what Michael Jordan is doing. Yeah.

[Ice]

Sweating the whistle, man.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah. Yeah. Cuz that's why. That's the cheddar cheese in the eyes. Like the. Only 17 years of alcohol straight can do that to you.

[Ice]

Like, he ain't. He drinking everything neat with a cigar, bro. He. Yeah, when you win the match, he might choke you a little bit. He kissed that like he was a trophy, son. He grabbed the.

[Joshua Dawson]

Like.

[Ice]

Yeah. Did you see he was a human. He c. Did you.

[Joshua Dawson]

Did you see where he slapped old boy from the. From the Hornets? What's his name? Malik Monk. You see when he slapped Malik Monk while Malik was on the court?

[Ice]

Yes. He's slapping, like, somebody. Grandpa.

[Joshua Dawson]

He was starting to tell me. He's like, what you doing?

[Ice]

This is the thing. Y' all gotta remember that Michael Jordan is a From the country. Like, he's from Wilmington, North Carolina. He grew up around old black people. Go watch his first interviews. This is a contrary, bro.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

So, like, those interviews, that old mannerism that just been waiting to come out, and that's how Old people is when they frustrated with you.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah.

[Ice]

They ain't got no more talk for you. What the is wrong with you?

[Joshua Dawson]

You got. You make a point, though, because he had an old walk. His whole life. His whole life.

[Ice]

He keep his head low.

[Joshua Dawson]

Yeah, yeah, he was. He was primed for this.

[Ice]

Yeah, this is the. This is what. This is what it all been building up to. Yeah, it's a. This.

[Joshua Dawson]

I saw Michael Jordan one time in my entire life growing up, and he don't be in Chicago. He was coming out of a gym, and a bunch of people, you know, gathered on one side. He came out and he went back in, and I had access to the gym, so when he went in, I went in and other people couldn't. And he was telling somebody to bring his car around, and one of the ladies was like, don't you just want to go take a couple of pictures with some of the kids? There's, like, a lot of kids out there. And I swear to God. Here is my right hand to God. You know the famous line, fuck them kids. He didn't say fuck them kids, but he basically said. He went, kids. Them not my kids. I swear to. I put this on my mother's life. I was like, oh, this was before the fuck them kids meme was even up, bro. I got to see the live. Fuck them kids, bro. This Michael Jordan is different, bruh. He said, them not my kids. He's right. Those aren't his kids.

[Ice]

You can't argue with that.

[Joshua Dawson]

That's good logic.

[Ice]

You can't argue with that.

[Joshua Dawson]

That's solid logic. They're not my kids.

[Ice]

Christmas podcast episode words or something, man. My Josh Dawes, bro, if you. Well, it. It don't matter if you watching this, because we gonna be on stage tomorrow night. Should be over. Catch us at the Black tomorrow and in the future, shout out my rod rose behind the boys. Yeah, man, we'll see y' all next time, man.

[Joshua Dawson]

It's just rap.

[Ice]

I just want to rap, you know? I just want to rap. Yeah. They say without the proper labor faith

[Joshua Dawson]

don't stand a chance I put my

[Ice]

faith in faith and stand on fertile land I planted seeds that'll indeed turn into trees before rest in peace teas get printed to me.