Episode 148 - Curiosity Theory Podcast

Summary

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Grits and Eggs Podcast - Episode 148: "Curiosity Theory Podcast"

Host: Deante’ Kyle
Guests: Dr. Dakota Tyler (astrophysicist, Curiosity Theory podcast), Justin Schaefer (STEM educator/producer, Curiosity Theory podcast)
Date: May 22, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode merges the playful energy of Grits and Eggs with the inquisitive, scientific curiosity of the Curiosity Theory podcast. Deante' Kyle welcomes Dr. Dakota Tyler and Justin Schaefer for a raw, flowing conversation about identity, science communication, conspiracies, AI, the future of labor, social media addiction, and the social/psychological state of young men in America. Balancing street wisdom with scientific rigor, the hosts challenge each other's curiosity, talk openly about vulnerable moments, and reflect on American society's disruptive future.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Identity, Barbershop Talk, and Hairlines

00:00 - 08:40

• Light-hearted banter about hair, barbershop culture, and accepting male pattern baldness.
• Discussion about the pressures to fit into beauty standards not designed for Black people.
• Playful shoutouts to Black men who simply "owned it" instead of going the hair restoration route.
• Quote (Deante’ Kyle, 06:13):
  “If you have an all white offensive line, you’re not going nowhere. Nah, you need…”

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2. Introducing Curiosity Theory & Its Philosophical Framework

09:39 - 11:57

• Justin and Dr. Tyler introduce themselves and the Curiosity Theory podcast.
• The “wise” framework: assessing motives and evidence behind claims.
• Challenge: demanding critical thought, not just easy answers.
• Quote (Dr. Dakota Tyler, 09:46):
  “At Curiosity Theory, we have something called a wise framework... What are your intentions? Why is this argument being made?”

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3. Black Excellence in Science: Representation & Collaboration

11:37 - 15:53

• Dr. Tyler and Justin share their rare path as Black men in science communication/astrophysics.
• The synergy of their partnership: “Spiderman peanut butter on my jelly.”
• The struggle for visibility in STEM as Black men.
• Quote (Dr. Dakota Tyler, 15:23):
  “In the STEM space... my field is like, 1% Black, less than. If you talk about Black men—less than 1%.”

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4. Health, Fitness, Consistency, and Mental Clarity

16:15 - 17:38

• Fitness as not just self-care but an investment in partnership and creativity.
• Consistency achieved through marathon mindset—consistency conquers self-doubt.
• Quote (Justin Schaefer, 17:04):
  “Consistency is the name of this game. Any of the self doubt that I had from that point eradicated because of fitness.”

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5. Space Curiosity: Jupiter, the Moon, and Hidden Figures

18:25 - 25:28

• Deante’ asks about Jupiter’s “red dot”—explained as a centuries-old hurricane in a thick gas atmosphere.
• A breakdown of why the Moon is just “a rock in space”—and why human footprints last millennia.
• The moon landing: skepticism, conspiracy, and the real math behind CGI claims.
• Hidden Figures: the Black women whose math sent Americans to the moon.
• Quote (Justin Schaefer, 21:24):
  “The computing power required [for fake CGI] was exponentially more powerful than the technology they had available to them... because math was being done by people like Katherine Johnson.”

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6. Conspiracies, Flat Earth, and the Psychology of Skepticism

25:08 - 31:28

• Why do people latch on to flat earth and moon hoax theories?
• The importance of peer review vs. reinforcing echo chambers.
• The difference between scientific skepticism (requiring evidence) and rhetorical skepticism (just doubting for attention).
• Quote (Justin Schaefer, 26:52):
  “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence... so when people start citing a YouTube rabbit hole... that's when we start to scrutinize.”

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7. Science Communication: The Case of Penicillin

33:27 - 35:19

• How a failure to communicate scientific discovery (penicillin) delayed its impact by 15 years.
• Why distilling science for public understanding is essential.
• Quote (Justin Schaefer, 34:06):
  “Hundreds of thousands of lives, maybe millions, could have been saved... that’s because it was a failure of science communication.”

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8. Nature's Intelligence: Fungi, Dolphins, and Language

35:19 - 39:03

• Mycelium networks as Earth’s largest living organisms, interconnecting trees.
• Flaunting the intelligence of dolphins: coordinated freestyling, structured vocal “languages.”
• The “Zipf’s law” pattern found in dolphin communication suggests language complexity.
• Quote (Dr. Dakota Tyler, 38:49):
  “It’s suggestive that certain things mean something and they’re using it in a structured way.”

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9. Ancient Survival as Intelligence, and Social Strata

40:08 - 41:26

• Survival is a profound indicator of intelligence. Sharks predate trees, and have thrived for hundreds of millions of years.
• Brief, playful roast: social hierarchy among the hosts.

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10. AI, Genetic Engineering, and the Class Divide of the Future

42:30 - 45:33

• AI may soon create a class divide based on critical thinking vs. reliance on automation.
• IVF “designer babies” and the threat of eugenics, genetic selection for “best genes.”
• Will access to AI literacy and genetic engineering become the new privilege?
• Quote (Dr. Dakota Tyler, 44:50):
  “That’s straight up eugenics... you’re aiming for genetic superiority.”

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11. AI as Religion, Agency, and the Data Dilemma

49:28 - 51:52

• Can LLMs (“Large Language Models”) become cult leaders? It’s already starting—robotheism and digital twins.
• AIs can profile and influence people more deeply than ever before.
• Quote (Dr. Dakota Tyler, 50:27):
  “They know on average people’s deepest fears... the most in-depth psychological profile... ever built.”

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12. AI, Agency, and the Real Dangers (Myanmar Case Study)

52:20 - 55:40

• Facebook’s engagement-algorithm contributed to a real-life ethnic cleansing.
• Algorithms maximizing “rage-bait” for engagement are fundamentally anti-human.
• The proliferation of bots and contrarian accounts online—are you arguing with a human, or a machine?
• Quote (Dr. Dakota Tyler, 54:09):
  “Imagine you sitting there arguing with a literal robot, an AI bot that you could never change their mind, right?”

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13. Embodied AI: Robots, Labor, and the Imminent Displacement

55:40 - 62:22

• Robots are entering homes as helpers; “world modeling” AI will soon be physically competent in complex tasks.
• Nvidia’s Omniverse: simulated training gyms for billions of robots, exponentially accelerating learning.
• Dilemma: what do humans do when both white collar and blue collar jobs are automated?
• Quote (Justin Schaefer, 57:46):
  “These robots are basically going to the gym... learning how to do all these things on an expedited time scale.”

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14. Societal Surveillance, Tech Cynicism, and Potential Futures

62:22 - 68:07

• Will automation liberate or further surveil/enslave humans? Little faith in UBI actually empowering workers.
• Surveillance has already gone beyond the wildest dreams of Cold War-era regimes.
• National identity and meaning remain tied to labor, complicating technology's impact.
• Quote (Dr. Dakota Tyler, 67:22):
  “We’re already under complete and utter surveillance... This is listening to us. It’s at least five or six cell phones in this room.”

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15. Race, Nationalism, Capitalism, and AI's American Dilemma

70:09 - 79:02

• The tech-centric future collides with America’s fractured, caste-driven society.
• Contrasts with Asia’s homogeneous, collectivist advances—America’s individualism and racial caste are barriers to mass progress.
• Homogeneous societies may achieve cooperation and shared purpose, but not without issues.
• Personal stories of traveling/living abroad for more dignity, less stress as a Black American.
• Quote (Justin Schaefer, 74:45):
  “Japan is the most shameless society on earth... you’re praised for it.”

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16. Job Security, STEM, and the Coming AI Disruption

79:02 - 84:26

• STEM and skilled trades: paths to current security, but impending automation looms.
• Commercial truck drivers could be first displaced by AI; business case is too strong.
• The relentless logic of technological capitalism may dehumanize work entirely.
• Quote (Dr. Dakota Tyler, 80:22):
  “When taken to its extreme... capitalism ends with the complete minimization of what it even means to be a human person.”

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17. AI, Exponential Growth, and Diaspora Dilemmas

84:26 - 91:45

• AI's evolution outpaces human adaptation; exponential leaps make the future unrecognizable.
• The case for global citizenship: diversifying not just assets, but experiences and roots outside America.
• Tenuous connection to nationalism—does Black American loyalty hold up in a divided, declining empire?
• Quote (Deante’ Kyle, 86:16):
  “You get a little fickle getting involved with the empire... what does it mean to be committed to upholding this?”

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18. Empire in Decline: Demographics, Currency, and Exit Strategies

91:45 - 94:01

• Ray Dalio’s “fall of empires” playbook: currency weakening, emigration, declining birthrate as red flags for America.
• Black Americans increasingly consider African nations for opportunity, community, and self-identification.
• Quote (Justin Schaefer, 92:46):
  “Most of us are overindexed on US assets... if the US as a concept goes away, that’s all your life’s work in one thing.”

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19. Gambling, Young Men, and the Cartel of Addiction

94:01 - 99:44

• Pandemic of sports gambling targeting young men, amplified by marketing from celebrities and influencers.
• How gambling addiction, risk-taking, and substance use are messaged as “maleness.”
• Social and financial consequences; the trap of the “intermittent reward” system—social media algorithm as slot machine.
• Quote (Dr. Dakota Tyler, 97:35):
  “It’s all connected. It’s a big, disgusting snowball... a cartel almost, of marketing and advertisement.”

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20. Isolation, Social Skills, and the Meaning of Embarrassment

101:14 - 107:00

• Social media is a mixed blessing—can be a lifeline or a trap, and abstinence isn’t always healthier.
• Value of consistent, IRL community and small rituals for wellbeing.
• “Embarrassment stories” segment: hosts share childhood social fumbles to normalize discomfort as part of human growth.
• Quote (Dr. Dakota Tyler, 118:21):
  “To me, that’s part of being a man: looking at that fear straight up, and facing it.”

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21. Final Reflections: Growth Mindset, Discomfort, and Brotherhood

118:41 - End

• Embracing social discomfort is crucial—attack discomfort until you lack discomfort.
• Brotherhood, laughter, and vulnerability round out the show.
• Quote (Justin Schaefer, 118:43):
  “Attack discomfort until you lack discomfort.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Scientific Rigor:
  “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence... You gotta support it with elaborate, thorough evidence from primary sources.”
  — Justin Schaefer, 26:52

• On Social Media & Disinformation:
  “The algorithm incentivizes rage, bait and engagement—drama, gossip. It doesn’t care.”
  — Deante’ Kyle, 32:35

• On Technology’s Trajectory:
  “Ten years ago, bro, I wouldn’t have believed these chatbots would be where they are. I wouldn’t believe that at all.”
  — Dr. Dakota Tyler, 83:50

• On Male Vulnerability:
  “We’re gonna be embarrassed a lot along the way. That’s a part of it.”
  — Deante’ Kyle, 117:25

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00-08:40 – Hair, baldness, and Black barbershop culture
• 09:39-11:57 – Introducing Curiosity Theory and the “wise” framework
• 15:53-17:38 – Fitness, consistency, and mental health
• 18:25-25:28 – Space/astrophysics: Jupiter, the Moon, and Hidden Figures
• 26:52-31:28 – Flat Earth & conspiracy claims vs. science
• 33:27-35:19 – The penicillin story: why science needs storytellers
• 38:40-39:03 – Dolphin language and animal intelligence
• 42:30-45:33 – AI, genetic engineering, and eugenics
• 50:27-51:52 – Digital twins and AI profiling
• 52:20-55:40 – Algorithms, Facebook, and real-world violence
• 57:46-58:22 – Simulated robot training and automation’s future
• 62:22-68:07 – Surveillance, meaning, and labor: a bleak but honest assessment
• 70:09-75:00 – Asian collectivism vs. American individualism
• 79:05-84:26 – Skills, STEM, trades, and futureproofing
• 94:01-99:44 – Gambling, young men, and the marketing “cartel”
• 101:14-107:00 – Real-life social bonds and embarrassing social moments
• 118:41-End – Closing thoughts: discomfort as growth, brotherhood

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Conclusion

Raw, intellectually curious, and unfiltered, this episode is an energetic cross-pollination between street-level wisdom and deep science communication. Deante’ Kyle, Dr. Dakota Tyler, and Justin Schaefer probe technology, culture, and the future, all while laughing at themselves and bringing listeners in close.

Takeaways:

• Accept discomfort and embarrassment as essential for growth.
• Resist the urge to offload all thinking to algorithms.
• True intelligence and resilience may be in outlasting systems, not just playing to them.
• Seek community, critical evidence, and authentic interactions—whether in Tulsa or outer space.

“Attack discomfort until you lack discomfort.”
— Justin Schaefer (118:43)

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Curiosity Theory Podcast: Dr. Dakota Tyler & Justin Schaefer
Grits and Eggs Podcast: Deante’ Kyle

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For more:

• Dr. Dakota Tyler: @Dr.Starkid (socials)
• Justin Schaefer: @MrFascinate (socials)
• Curiosity Theory Podcast
• Grits and Eggs Podcast

End of Summary

Transcript

[Deontay Kyle]

You know what's crazy? For the longest I was out here treating my hair like it was supposed to behave like everybody else's. Like I'm using what people told me to use, doing what people said worked for them. And I'm sitting there like, why is my hair still dry? Or why is it not growing the way I want it to? Why does it feel like I'm doing everything quote unquote right and still not getting the results? And honestly, that'll mess with you a little bit because you start thinking the problem is you, when really the problem is you're using stuff that wasn't made for you in the first place. But that's why I've been rocking with Basque and lather, because they actually create products for textured hair, not just throwing something out there and hoping it works for everybody. One of my favorites right now is their stimulating scalp and hair balm. And what I like about it is it's not heavy but or greasy. It doesn't leave residue in my locks. And then the hydrating hair mist clutch, especially if your hair gets dry fast or you need something to keep it soft and manageable throughout the day. It's got aloe vera, avocado oil, it helps with the frizz, detangling all that for me. I've noticed my hair feeling stronger, more hydrate, and just overall easier to deal with. And compared to the stuff that I used before, 10 out of 10, it actually feels like it's working with my hair instead of fighting against it. And if you go on their site and look at the before and afters, it's real results, like real growth, real health, real change with real people. I love that it's black owned and family operated. It literally started because the founder sister was told her hair might not grow back and now her hair is down to her hips. Explore viral bestsellers and products for healthier hair of all types of from Baskin leather, go to baskinlatherco.com and use code GRITS for 20% off. That's 20% [e-mail] code GRITS. All right, let me put y' all onto something real quick. If you're still dealing with all these bank fees, overdraft charges, monthly fees, all of that, it's time to upgrade. Chime is changing the way people bank. This is a fee free banking built for you, not these traditional banks that make you feel like they're always taking something out of your account. About it is it actually feels designed for real life. Like why Am I paying just to access my own money? With Chime, you've got access to thousands of fee free ATMs. If you've ever been in that situation where your account dips a little too low, they've got Spot Me which lets you overdraft up to $200 with no fees. That alone Game changer. I know when I was using the Chime account that was a game changer for me. It was like getting in advance because there was no fee attached to it. Plus if you set up the direct deposit, that's where you really unlock the benefits. You can get things like cash back on everyday spending like gas or groceries, and even grow your savings faster with a competitive apy. Honestly, I know my younger self really benefited from this and I think you know your younger self would have benefited from it as well because it just makes managing your money feel a lot less stressful and a lot more in your control. Chime is not only smarter banking, it is the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. Head to chime.com grits that's chime.com grits it only takes a few minutes to get signed up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services for MyPay and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Optional products and services may have fees or charges. Stated annual percentage yield and cash back for Chime prime only. No minimum balance required. Checking account ranking based on the J.D. power survey published October 20, 2025. For more information on APY rates, MyPay Spot Me and travel perks go to Chime.com disclosures. Y Woke up in the morning and to God be the glory Thankful for another day to tell my story Put my opinions in the universe and let them orbit I'm from the dirty soul with a dirty mouth might need orbit miss things things on me like a nigga nor bit had to refuse them cause my bitch no rest fusion she gorgeous as I d my sons up and kiss my daughter forehead tell them we gonna get this money to my pockets morbid remember living in apartments now

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

we playing mortgage good straight I'm great bro.

[Deontay Kyle]

Feeling great man. I actually low key want to take another shot. That was good. Yeah man. I mean just like talking about I mean you don't. Don't put that on us. You grown grown man liver Grown man liver. Wow. He turned up. Wow. One shot and ball. He's not happy with us no more. He over being around us. You're like I'm Sick of these. All these got hair.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Mercedes.

[Deontay Kyle]

Am I handsome? Gotta say what you get baby.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

By long shot is what she said in her head,

[Deontay Kyle]

I guess. Oh my God, you is a bunch of. No, he just talking about. No sad. You can predict. You can predict interception of the song of the rings of Saturn. Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

N was.

[Justin Schaefer]

Whoa.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

What you goofy.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, that would have pissed me off.

[Justin Schaefer]

Here's a football, by the way.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

What does that mean, bro? No, like.

[Deontay Kyle]

I mean

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

it's football like a black. Is that. You know what I mean?

[Deontay Kyle]

I mean it's black dominated.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Cheers.

[Deontay Kyle]

Cheers. Cheers. Man, it's more playing football than whites.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I don't know bro. It might be close to 50. 50.

[Deontay Kyle]

Hey, what in D1 basketball like in

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

the league if you go to the Florida O line is almost all white.

[Deontay Kyle]

Always all white. And then the kind of behalf. Yeah. And then punters, linebackers.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I feel like be half skill positions dominated by black players. That's true. First of all, I think it's close to 5050 though.

[Deontay Kyle]

If you have an all white offensive line, you're not going nowhere. Nah, you need.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

You're going to the fucking Super Bowl. Tom Brady, that nigga didn't have a black. Oh, I'm in his life.

[Deontay Kyle]

Tom Brady had an all white team and won seven Super Bowl. They was cheating.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

They was cheating. Hey, I mean they was getting out coached. If your like your coach is cheating.

[Deontay Kyle]

Nah. Yeah. If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying, man. Yeah, I mean, yeah. What about the fact that you might need you a good like Pacific islander on that front. No, you got to have your. You got to have you some more. I got to have you one of them. You couldn't wait for the shot. You had to get it over with. Like you going to pass out,

[Justin Schaefer]

head

[Deontay Kyle]

going to fall off. Are you old? All right, well, Nick got the.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

You got them Maai fifer dreads. The sew in the sewins.

[Deontay Kyle]

You know what I'm talking about? Arms is heavy, knees weak. Mom spaghetti you woman on the sweater already he's nervous. All right. Le also big cat.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

What you got up under that hat? I ain't what's underneath there, bro. I'm trying to see what's under there. No, cuz.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, no male pattern. You know what I mean?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

You on. You on the journey.

[Deontay Kyle]

A ball.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Hey, and the journey is the reward. My. It's about the journey. It's not about the arrival right there.

[Deontay Kyle]

It's getting. It's okay.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Getting a little thin.

[Deontay Kyle]

It's okay. But I ain't Bald. I can still get a good lineup

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

for as long as you can technically

[Deontay Kyle]

say that when you lose hair up here, you get it down here. This is what I noticed. It's been the flip. Think so.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

The crazy thing is, bro, mine started doing that when I was like, 14 or something.

[Deontay Kyle]

15. What? Your hair.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Your hair.

[Deontay Kyle]

Oh, yeah. 14. Yeah, that's definitely hereditary. Definitely somebody genetic. Some bloodline cursed a wit. Got cursed by a witch.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah, I have abnormal amounts of that, dog.

[Justin Schaefer]

It's unusual.

[Deontay Kyle]

Abnormal. It's too much. It's too much, dog.

[Justin Schaefer]

Too much dog.

[Deontay Kyle]

Had to take the hair.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Too much, dog. Get the hair out.

[Deontay Kyle]

Get the hair out, man, so we can get this thing.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

We got to divert. Divert the resources.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, man. Shout out to all my b. This is episode 100 and something.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Shout out to all my bald niggas, bro.

[Deontay Kyle]

Got to shout out my bald niggas, man. You know, Shout out to all my. That just went. You know what I'm saying? Natural. My didn't go to Turkey. Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Schaefer]

They just accepted it. Babble out and got the word Jalen Brown.

[Deontay Kyle]

No, Jason Brown. I don't want that Jalen Brown. I want that LeBron. No, you don't want the spray on. Hey, bro.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah, but then he go and get it. Get it in Turkey or something. I thought I saw.

[Deontay Kyle]

You can't do that. No, he can't play ball and have this in Turkey.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Ball is up anyways, bro. I feel like it's a difference between just. Just owning it and then, like, running from it to get your hair plugged.

[Deontay Kyle]

That's a male BBL to me.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I can't. It is a bbl.

[Deontay Kyle]

No, I'm saying. But you can. You can. You can be going ball here. But as long as you hear with it.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I know why you. I know why you're harping on that. That's an important thing for you to say. I know why you're.

[Deontay Kyle]

When you hear with it.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

You know what I'm saying? I get your position.

[Deontay Kyle]

You can fade the black.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah, bro.

[Deontay Kyle]

You got.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

So at Curiosity Theory, we have something called a wise framework that we use to assess whether or not we should believe the shit that people are saying to us. Yeah. And one of them is, what is it?

[Justin Schaefer]

What are your intentions?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

What are your intentions? Eyes for intentions. Why is this person saying this? Why is this argument being made by Big Cat himself?

[Justin Schaefer]

Right, right, right, right, right.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Like, what does he have to gain for us to believe that, to take that as factual?

[Deontay Kyle]

I have nothing to gain. I can walk around all day with my head off.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah, that's my dog, though.

[Deontay Kyle]

I could be okay, you know what I'm saying? If you ever seen Big Cat, fresh out of the chair, you know what I'm saying? The barber. Make sure he in the back. Yeah, in the back.

[Justin Schaefer]

Oh.

[Deontay Kyle]

You know what I'm saying?

[Justin Schaefer]

I never did that before.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I mean, you.

[Deontay Kyle]

You. Hey, listen, I know black pipe. I know black. Listen, I was just Dominican.

[Justin Schaefer]

No, they offered me the joint, though. I was offended the first time they offered.

[Deontay Kyle]

He's like, enhancements. You can't. You gotta go. No enhancements. No enhancements. Yeah, no enhancement and no enhancements, bro.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

You gotta. You gonna have your hairline.

[Justin Schaefer]

I think it's.

[Deontay Kyle]

I think it's the remainder.

[Justin Schaefer]

I think it's gonna be around for a minute. Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

No, you good. We got Dr. Dakota Tyler and Justin Schaefer in the building from Curiosity Theory podcast.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Curiosity Theory podcast.

[Deontay Kyle]

Curiosity, gris and eggs, you know what I'm saying? Big ice cub cat. Who's behind the camera.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Big ice cub cat.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, man. Big tequila cat, you know what I'm saying? Big Tequila has changed the momentum.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

You know what I'm saying? We had a long day in this. Very long. But we back. Yeah. How y' all feeling?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Black Wall Street. Feeling good.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Fresh off Greenwood.

[Justin Schaefer]

Feeling like, man, y'. All. Y' all came to Tulsa. Y' all checked out the scene. Is it the first time here?

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, yeah, it was a nice. It was a nice vibe. We definitely pulling back up. You gotta come back.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Absolutely, bro. I appreciate you coming up. Yeah, I. With y', all, man.

[Deontay Kyle]

Basically, you know, I'm saying this is the part. This will be part two for us, but it's part one with me having y'. All. Here's a collective, so if you want to give a quick rundown about who you are, what y' all do, and where people can find you. Just right up top.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm Dr. Dakota Tyler. You can find me on all socials at Dr. Starkid. I'm an astrophysicist, a physics professor, science communicator. I'm a nerd. I study planets. I got my PhD in exoplanet research, and I'm co host of Curiosity Theory, a science podcast with my dog here. Justin Schaefer.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yes, sir. Justin Schaefer, also known as Mr. Fascinate. I'm a STEM educator and AI Enterprise trainer, a STEM media producer. So I made shows for pbs, Discovery Channel. I am the co host and producer of Curiosity Theory. So welcome to the set. You all are seeing the byproduct of our collective genius, man. And our journey through time is educating the world about science.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, man. Hey, that's dope. You work with pbs? That's dope.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yes. Discovery Channel, bro.

[Deontay Kyle]

Got it crazy.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

He got a stacked resume.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, yeah. You like top 40 under 40? Top 40 under 40 on the Forbes, baby.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah, I was on the.

[Deontay Kyle]

He was Forbes top 30 under 30. Yeah, he was. That's real.

[Justin Schaefer]

That's real education in 2024. I got that. And yeah, a couple years before that, I executive produced my first PBS show. And part of the reason we ended up actually in Tulsa is because I sold a second show to PBS and I owned a studio in downtown Los Angeles. And they basically put us in a position where, because of the Trump defunding of the National Science. Oh, bomb.

[Deontay Kyle]

I mean, we got other cameras. Yeah, yeah. That's a battery thing.

[Justin Schaefer]

It's all good.

[Deontay Kyle]

It's the. It's the power of editing. Executive producer, right? Yeah, he's a producer. It's the power of editing.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah, yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

That's why you got all them accolades. We back.

[Justin Schaefer]

Still rolling stuff.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yes. Do it, baby. Yeah.

[Justin Schaefer]

So sold my second show to pbs. Got defunded by the National Science foundation. And I was like, yo, I'm not gonna have the bread to educate the people that I wanna educate, you know? And I was like, well, this is not my first rodeo with that. Like, I scarce resources. I got a studio full of equipment. How do I keep educating people at the same time? Dakota finished his PhD in astrophysics, and we work really well together.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Can I get some applause in this bitch or something?

[Deontay Kyle]

Nice cop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what we gonna do. Yes, sir, man, shout out to you. Yeah.

[Justin Schaefer]

So Dakota and I, we had worked together like four years ago on this other super techie project where we put him on the surface of different planets to basically describe his research showing people what life is like on different planets outside of our solar system.

[Deontay Kyle]

That's fire. What's the name of that? So out searching for a second home.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Searching, Searching for life. Yeah, yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

Is that out?

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah, we released that, but I put it on Vimeo. I didn't even, like, publicly do it.

[Deontay Kyle]

Now we got to put that out. Yeah, we got to put that. That's important. Time this come out. That got to be out.

[Justin Schaefer]

Here's the challenge. Like, because of all the AI tools that came out, we did it at a much lower production value than we could if we Just re. Released it today with AI tools and all that kind of stuff. But the. I think the biggest. The biggest takeaway from the project, you know, was that we had great chemistry. We were like, oh, wait a minute. You got that dog in you? And then I feel like it was

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

like a Spiderman peanut butter on my jelly. I got your.

[Deontay Kyle]

Hey, hey. Yeah.

[Justin Schaefer]

So we found out how compatible we were, and then, you know, we just wanted to find ways to, like, maybe

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

this could be something.

[Justin Schaefer]

We wanted to find ways to link up, you know, Started out casual and started off super casual and courted each other. You had to court each other. It got serious after he got his doctorate because. Because I was waiting for him to get up.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

He had to get his money up.

[Deontay Kyle]

He had to get his together first. Look, bro, I'm doing it.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

No, but like, in the. In the stem space, especially in, you know, my feel is like, 1% black, less than. If you talking about black men. Less than 1% science communication in general. 1% black. You talking about black men. It's like less than 1%. Neil DeGrasse Tyson is kind of. There's a couple other males in the space, but it's mostly like him, so it's, like, rare, you know what I'm saying, To find somebody that you could, like, collab.

[Deontay Kyle]

Absolutely.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

This, like, on the same time, got similar backgrounds, you know, Got that drive, got that dog.

[Justin Schaefer]

Got that dog.

[Deontay Kyle]

I'm gonna keep it a bean, though. I think about this sometimes, like, you know, you get older, you start to be a little bit more, like, conscious and aware of, like, your health and shit you're doing. I'm not. I'm not the healthiest nigga on earth, you know what I'm saying? Big cat has been in the gym. He's been getting to it. Yeah. And I was like, man, we got to tighten this up because it's like.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

You meet in the gym.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, yeah. First. No, we didn't meet in the gym, but I'm saying, like.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

But you do be in the gym.

[Deontay Kyle]

I didn't start going back going. But the thing is, it's like, the reason why I think about doing shit like that is for longevity, because it's like, bro, if something happened to him or something to happen to me, this shit, it's like, I wouldn't want to do this shit with nobody else.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

It's an investment in your vision, that part. Investment in your health. And then you also going to find. I found this. I know, Justin. We talked about this a lot. When you start to get More physically active. You going to feel it in your mind as well?

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

You're going to start, you, you, you're going to have clear thoughts. You're going to be able to be more creative, you're going to be quicker, you'll be able to go longer, more stamina.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah, stamina is where I feel like I really saw the benefit. Like I, I ran the LA Marathon to 2024 and you know, that's, that's another 1% club.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

That's crazy.

[Justin Schaefer]

It's like less than 1% of the world has actually run a marathon. And the mentality that you have to get to just in terms of consistency, like I always thought that was my biggest thing I struggled with, like as a creative person, as an entrepreneur. I feel like I just struggled showing up every day and then that kind of like showed me that I could do it. So when it comes to doing something like a podcast, you know, consistency is the name of this game.

[Deontay Kyle]

Oh yeah, that's it. That's everything.

[Justin Schaefer]

Any of the self doubt that I had from that point eradicated because of fitness. And then like you said, you biologically de age yourself when you start working out. You know, that is true. You put yourself in a position to be a winner.

[Deontay Kyle]

Say less, bruh. You know what I'm saying? We back at it. Yeah. Because I don't like, man, it's so hard, like you said, to find that synergy, but also like somebody that is just as passionate, just as enthusiastic as you. And yeah, we've been seeing a lot of success. I see that y'. All. I feel like y' all gonna be like, really that up next because it's an education space and black people have been searching for something that's just not like drama and mess and gossip or relationship talk. And I've been seeing a lot more black people post like they runs like their miles and like that. That they running is good. Yeah. My homie d' Angelo kind of got me really that out of hand program know about that.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

You hear that?

[Deontay Kyle]

That's my feet. That's me doing this.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I forgot my far on the spectrum.

[Deontay Kyle]

I'm like, you know, my fault, my fault. He thought it was the universe, thought it was a UFO landing the going on. That sounds familiar. That's what rain sounds like on Jupiter. Y' all hear that? Y' all hear it's raining diamonds right now? It does. I know. That's why I use Jupiter as a, you know. I know a little bit. I'll be watching your face.

[Justin Schaefer]

Okay.

[Deontay Kyle]

I Got one question though, about Jupiter, son. That big ass red dot.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

Is that really like a hurricane?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah, it's just a big storm that is continuous.

[Justin Schaefer]

Right.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

You got to think Jupiter is all gas. It's like all atmosphere. So on Earth we really don't have a thick atmosphere. It's thin. If you see Earth from space, you can actually see the land. Yeah. Right. So that means that there's not much of an atmosphere there. Now if it all, you know, congregates and heats up, you can get like a hurricane, a cyclone, and you can even see that from space. On Jupiter is nothing but atmosphere. It's all gas. So you can have a hurricane. Basically. A hurricane that rages on for hundreds of years, thousands of years. It won't last forever.

[Deontay Kyle]

But it has like really doesn't have anything to stop it either.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah, yeah, because it's. The entire planet is spinning. The gas atmosphere is so dense and it's just whipping around and you know, it's kind of in this feedback loop that will eventually run its course. But for now it's been going for as long as we have known about it.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah. I get curious about this sometimes because when you see Earth from space, like you said, you can't see like the landmass and things like that. And then being on Earth, you know like what it's like to be on land. But when you look at other planets, it's like I always try to imagine like what would it be like to be on that planet because you can't see any of the land mass from here. Same thing with like the moon. It's like even when you see the moon, it's like they literally just stand on a rock in outer space. So it doesn't seem like it has any like depth to it.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Almost if you were standing on the moon and you could ignore what you saw, which is like no atmosphere and blackness, and you probably see some stars or whatever, then it wouldn't be that different from standing on like some gray rocks. Like the gravity is a little bit lower. So it would feel different, but I mean it would just feel like you

[Deontay Kyle]

were standing on something. So because it doesn't have any atmosphere like up there, it's just like basically orbiting Earth. But it doesn't have like the same atmosphere as Earth, right?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Not at all.

[Justin Schaefer]

No atmosphere.

[Deontay Kyle]

There's no atmosphere. It's like you just standing on a rock in space, like literally so you

[Justin Schaefer]

can leave a footprint and there's no wind that's going to blow it away.

[Deontay Kyle]

Should be there For.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Should be there for. Yeah, for basically forever.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. How do y' all feel about the moon landing?

[Justin Schaefer]

I mean, I can tell you how

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I feel about it.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Justin Schaefer]

I mean, I'll start from the computer generated graphics perspective because I think that's one side of it.

[Deontay Kyle]

Right.

[Justin Schaefer]

Like when people say the moon landing wasn't real, they say, oh, 1969. They did that was just CGI. But the computing power required because they had no generation, like believable, convincing graphics in 1969 was exponentially more powerful than the computing technology that they had available to them, which is probably counterintuitive for a lot of people because they're like, wait a minute, how do you have enough computing technology to send people to the moon? But it's actually because of the mathematics work of hidden figures like Katherine Johnson and things like that. Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

A black woman story who is untold. Shout out to the queen saying that it can't be done. And literally there's a black woman behind the scenes. Yeah. A computer. We think of a computer or a calculator, bro. A computer or a calculator used to be a person.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Calculating and computing the trajectory.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yes.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Orbital mechanics. Doing it by hand.

[Deontay Kyle]

She was putting together these.

[Justin Schaefer]

Rest in peace. Passed away not too long ago. Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Hidden. Hidden figures.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

Okay. Yeah. Because I never. I. I never been on the I. For fun. We'll tell that we never landed on the moon. But I saw videos. Yeah. I don't know. Doing that. Yeah, bro. I was like, hold up.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Are we beefed the out now?

[Deontay Kyle]

I was hoping you said something, but I was like, if we on the moon, how the we get back? Like. But it does look suspicious that we haven't been back, though.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I can understand that perspective. They went six times. Yes. So if your question is like, why. And it was either 6 or 7. If your question is why did we not go a seventh or eighth, like, why do. Why is that the magic number?

[Justin Schaefer]

Where are we?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Were they supposed to always continue to go forever? There's not. There wasn't much more reason to. And it's pretty expensive. A lot of it had to do with like, beating Russia to prove that we had better rockets.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Which is important in like a geopolitical war.

[Deontay Kyle]

It's a nuclear play. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure.

[Justin Schaefer]

More than like the whole hope of human. That was the branding of the moon landing to make it this.

[Deontay Kyle]

It was the race to Spain.

[Justin Schaefer]

But it was an arms race to show what kind of missile technology the communists below.

[Deontay Kyle]

Absolutely. Yeah. For sure. It's shot like we can get to the moon. We can definitely get to.

[Justin Schaefer]

But we're about again.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

The artist mission. They're about to go again. But I think that the.

[Deontay Kyle]

They might go to the moon again.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

Okay.

[Justin Schaefer]

So we, we're actually doing an interview in maybe a couple weeks with some folks that are participating. Yeah, yeah, we. We still figuring that out. But yeah, there's going to be another moon landing in the very near future.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

The, the. The single, I think most for me, critical point to make if you deny the moon landing, which, like, be skeptical about anything. Right. I mean, I'm skeptical about all the time. Is that the Soviet Union, our sworn enemies, hated our guts. They went along with it. I think that you should. You would have a hard time convincing yourself that they were along with the lie to embarrass themselves, make their space program look inferior to the U.S. right. If they're really tapped in, they could have. You know what I'm saying? They were, they were the whole thing. Right, Right. Like they were tracking the whole thing. They would have exposed us like that and they would have been happy to do it.

[Deontay Kyle]

Oh, real. Yeah. Yeah. That makes a lot.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And I feel like that's a compelling. That's a compelling piece of evidence to argue against the fact that we faked it and that they were in on it because they have. Have no reason to be in it.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

What was your. I'm sorry, go ahead. I'm sorry. No, you got it.

[Justin Schaefer]

No.

[Deontay Kyle]

So that's one reason I don't discredit the moon landing. Because when I seen Hidden Cousin, I seen how important the lady was to us get into the moon, I'm like, I'm not going to credit that queen. I'm not gonna do that. Well, my thing is too. What did you say y' all theory was earlier about, like, why somebody's asking the question and things like that. I always like, even with flat Earth and things like that, those things normally go hand in hand. Flat Earth and like the moon landing as a hoax.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

But I always like, was like, okay, for one, who does it benefit to lie about this?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

Like, why are we lying about that? And it's like, so somebody who is

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

a flat Earther and also denies the moon landing most likely doesn't think that it's possible to go to the moon. Because they don't think that you can go to space. They think space itself is fake.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

So they think, for example, they think that basically what I do, my career, whatever, it's like I'm, like, in on a lie as well. And being somebody to, like, paint this picture. That's untrue. And they don't think that space is real because the Bible says there's a firmament.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And people will leave a con. You know, if you clip this, people will leave comments saying that the firmament's real and you can't go to space.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah. But, like, also, like, here's the thing. We have scientists and astrophysicists and we have astronauts and people that have, like, invested their entire life's work into doing this. That done it, and now they're lying about it. And we have niggas who just been on Earth.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

And never been in a space station and never probably read a book.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

They haven't been super conscious.

[Deontay Kyle]

While they haven't been doing a lot, they haven't been doing a lot. They've been latching on to, like, rabbit holes online. Yeah. And the thing is, it's like, sometimes the evidence can be compelling, but then I'll just get to the point where it's like, okay, well, if the Earth is flat, like, who get. Why would I give a fuck? Because I'm like. In the time that I'm thinking about this, I'm driving trucks is like, I'm still gonna have to drive this truck, so I gotta pay these bills. And, like, whoever's lying about this, and for whatever reason I don't know what it is, the ice wall and there's land beyond the ice wall and all that, it's like, look, my. Who gives a. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? There's enough problems in America to worry about 100 man.

[Justin Schaefer]

And one of the things that we also say on Curiosity Theory is extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And so, you know, when you think of something that's elaborate or spectacular, you gotta support it with elaborate, thorough evidence from primary sources. So when people start citing a YouTube rabbit hole as the source of their claims about Earth being flat or the moon landing being fake and not really finding firsthand observations that have been recorded by people all over the world, that's when we start to scrutinize it a little bit more heavily.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, I make a lot of sense, actually. There's a lot of. There's a lot of people that, like, they invest a lot of time into it, too. Like, what we was talking about earlier with the flat Earth thing is that people will invest time into, like, finding a lot of content that supports their things, but no actual, like, experiments. And the one time they did do an experiment. They kind of disproved their whole theory.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Beyond the. Beyond the curve. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was flat. Earthers that spent a lot of money on some really high tech equipment to be able to. They. Which they did. Like, they came about it in the right way. I respect that. I don't respect the nigga. This just saying some bullshit because they saw it in a YouTube video and they parroting the points in the comments. I don't respect that. I'm a scientist. I do science. I produce science, I publish it. You know, you can read about it. And so they. They did this experiment and they went and they said, look, if we're right about this, we should be able to prove it with this experiment. I. They did the experiment and then. And it came back that the earth wasn't flat. And they were like, okay, well wait, this thing must have happened. So they like switched it up a little bit to try to account for like erroneous magnetic fields or something like that.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And then they found again that it must be spherical, that it must be round.

[Deontay Kyle]

They tested it several times the same

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

way, which is what a scientist would do.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, right.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And then that's how you get to an answer.

[Deontay Kyle]

Is this why you feel like scientists don't come out, like, to disprove things like that or claims like that is. Cause I. Look, bruh, I'm doing the work. I don't got time to argue with you.

[Justin Schaefer]

Well, that's actually precisely how the scientific method works, is that there's this thing in science that we call peer review, where essentially someone like Dakota might publish a research paper, but before he publishes it, he sends it to other astrophysicists to literally critique it, rip it apart, and try to disprove the claims that he's making. So instead of maybe going out publicly and speaking out against some of these claims, scientists are often peer reviewing their own peers papers to give them that feedback directly. So that's a more substantive contribution to science.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, yeah. So the peer review on there is just. I mean, it's not really peer review. It's more of a, like, echo chamber and a feedback loop of the same information over and over, same sources over and over.

[Justin Schaefer]

Right.

[Deontay Kyle]

And I think that's not proving anything or disproving anything. It's just a claim.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah, that's more like a rhetoric thing as opposed to like a critique and analysis, which is precisely.

[Justin Schaefer]

You know, when a scientist tries to publish a research paper, there's so much scrutiny and analysis and critique that happens before something like that. Gets out. And yes, there's still margin for error. There's still errors in equipment. There's still errors that happen and, you know, over time, like those errors, you know, as you average out different studies, you have studies of studies, we talk about those, like meta analysis, and they kind of average out, you know, and so you get to a point where you have critical, critically analyzed, established information, but you can never fully trust it. 100. Nothing in science is ever truly a law law. But I think that's an interesting part that the public doesn't understand.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

It's like no theory. What we say is that no theory can ever be complete. Like, you can always make a new observation that overturns something that we thought in the past. And it has. It's happened before and it's going to happen again. Right. And so when you hear a scientist talk, like, if you read a paper, there'll be language that's like, very much hedging, like, well, based on the available evidence, we believe that most likely this thing is, like, you can't say it with certainty. Right. You never can say it with a hundred percent certainty. You always have error bars. And that doesn't play well when there's a conspiracy theorist who's like, telling you with conviction, this is all. This is all fake and is like, they're not going through this process of having to, like, substantiate, you know, to highly critical peers what they're saying. Right. They're just saying it. So on the. From your perspective, it's like, you see the scientist who's like, doesn't seem 100 sure actually. Because you can't be literally right.

[Deontay Kyle]

I think a lot of times when I'm offering my perspective on things, especially like social things, political things, and, you know, everybody knows my subject matter is around blackness and things like that. People might not agree with me, but I always tell people, like, if you're not articulating your disagreement with me, then I really don't care what you have to say. Because when I said made those claims, scientists actually tapped in and was like, actually, no, this, this and that. This is what happened. That happened. That happened. That's like, okay, that's evidence. Even though I'm clearly bullshitting and just talking for fun, this is what y' all do. So. Of course. And I'm gonna take that shit seriously. Cause it's like, I respect that you just study this. I'm just over here talking.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

But when I'm in my bag, where I'm more serious about things People will that. That as soon as you go to slandering me and like my character and talking about my looks or anything like that, it's just like. Yeah, you ain't got.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

So I'm gonna just dismiss that.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

You know what I mean?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

It's like a classic tactic.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah. Right.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

To try to tear you down, whatever it is. Yeah. The way that you look.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Or like who you're parents were.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Or whatever it is. Who you're dating.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

It's like just come at.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah. Like come at what I'm talking about. But I think that it's also incentivized on social media. Like the algorithm incentivizes rage, bait and game, engagement, drama, gossip, drama, that sort of thing. They love it. Like anything that'll get a group of people engaging in a back and forth. It doesn't like read the difference. So, you know, whatever the case may

[Justin Schaefer]

be, which is precisely antithetical to the way that most scientists think and communicate. And that's why the rhetoric used by scientists is often not very convincing to the public. And why the field of science communication, which we both identify professionally as science communicators, people that take science, distill it down, make it accessible for the public, is important because not only is it important to do the research, is important to communicate the importance of that research. Like, do you all know the story of penicillin? Talk about this on our show.

[Deontay Kyle]

It's a very. I know what my granny tell me. Yeah, I know.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Antibacterial.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah. It's like fungus, right?

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah. So it's an antibacterial fungus, but it was actually discovered in a laboratory.

[Deontay Kyle]

Right.

[Justin Schaefer]

So a scientist had like a bunch of projects that were out and they had a fungus that got, contaminated the samples and killed all the bacteria. And they were like, wait a minute, this seems interesting. And they publish this really complicated research paper about what it was and didn't really outline the potentials for it and all that kind of stuff. Right. It took 15 years for the idea of penicillin, when it was written in this white paper as just a concept to be brought into something that could be mass produced.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Wow.

[Justin Schaefer]

And that's because it was a failure of science communication.

[Deontay Kyle]

Okay.

[Justin Schaefer]

Hundreds of thousands of lives, maybe millions could have been saved.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

If we synthesize that earlier communicator that was maybe more like, I had a bit more of a marketer's mind, would have. Would have been able to be to like espouse this, tell people like, yo, this thing killed this bacteria There may be some commercial use, there may be some, like, human use here where we can just synthesize what's coming out of this fungus, which is an interesting thing to think about because, like, why would a fungus be able to kill bacteria? And it's like that bacteria also fucks with the fungus. So the fungus, which is way older than humans, fungus been around for billions of years. Is it billions?

[Justin Schaefer]

Hundreds of millions, for sure.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Hundreds of millions for sure.

[Justin Schaefer]

I gotta fact check the billions.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And it's like the fungus evolved defenses against the bacteria as well. They devolved. They evolved it better than us. So we basically take it from them. And this is true with a lot of medicine. A lot of the medicine that we use, we synthesize from other organisms that have already, that naturally evolved it. And then we just kind of like apply that to ourselves, which I think is interesting.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, that's interesting as hell. Yeah, I think the. I think fungus is, like, probably one of the most interesting things to me in general. Like, even how it can. Like how they can use it to clean up nuclear waste in certain places, like they use it in Chernobyl.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Things like fungus thrives in environments like that, which is very interesting. Like, we can't thrive in that.

[Deontay Kyle]

We can't live in that. We can't be around that at all.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah. I think the largest organism on Earth is actually a network, mycelial network.

[Deontay Kyle]

So.

[Justin Schaefer]

And a lot of these tree root systems communicate with each other through these fungal networks underground, which is such a

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

complex thing to think about.

[Deontay Kyle]

That's amazing.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Trees are sending nutrients to other trees because they're collaborating with fungus underground. That's a crazy thing. I feel like that's a level of complexity that we don't usually appreciate. We don't consider that when we think of, like, intelligence.

[Deontay Kyle]

Intelligence. Yeah. I think the. I think it's probably one of the more intelligent things, but I think it's about how we express intelligence. Like, if we don't have language, like, like verbal language or audible language, then we don't consider it as intelligent. The same way, like, people don't consider, like, the intelligence of other species of animals and things like that. Sure. When the reality is like, we're like. I mean, it's really these that, like, give us the advantage. That's like, literally it. But then also, you know, they find out the intelligence of like, a dolphin or a crow and shit like that. And then it's like, yeah, that shit is fascinating.

[Justin Schaefer]

We talked about a research study on our show where they were trying to synthesize ways to communicate with dolphins using artificial intelligence tools like large language models. And they derived this fascinating ability that dolphins have to communicate with each other underwater. So these dolphin trainers would come up with this command for dolphins basically to freestyle. And the dolphins would make up something on the spot. But the trainer told two dolphins at once during his training session to freestyle. These two dolphins swam down to the bottom, exchanged some sonic information, and then in perfect coordination on the first try, freestyled entirely in sync, doing a completely new move that they just kind of invented and exchanged that information admired.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

So they must be communicating something specific, like, we gonna do this, this, this, and this, and then coming up and executing it.

[Justin Schaefer]

And then the languages thing too. You talk about.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah, languages. So there's this really interesting thing with languages, and it's true with all languages. It's called zip slaw. And you could think about if we wrote every single word in the dictionary, write down every single word that's used in the English language, for example, since that's the one that we speak. And then you. You, like, rank them by the frequency that the word is used. Words like a and the are used all the time. And then a word that's super rare, maybe like xylophone or something like that, right? And so you got some words that are used a lot, some that are used a little, and it follows like this perfect power law, just like a little exponential decay, right? And when you do this with any language, don't have to be English. It could be German, it could be Mandarin, it could be Spanish. They all follow this exact same power law. And what they did was they took these recorders, underwater recorders, and listened to dolphins that are communicating to each other. And then they, like, recorded all the sounds that they heard, and they ranked them by frequency and they saw the exact same power law.

[Deontay Kyle]

That's where.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Now, that's not like hard evidence that they're using language.

[Deontay Kyle]

It's something.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

But it is. But it's evidence for something.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And it's compelling.

[Deontay Kyle]

It's at least a parallel somewhere.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

It's suggestive that certain things mean something and they're using it in a structured way. And that's crazy. Like, people didn't think that animals were communicating with each other in that way, but if. Of course they were.

[Deontay Kyle]

Well, but yeah, so the thing is that. That it got me to thinking about is that most species, like, except. Except ones that I guess are producing a lot more mass, like your tigers, lions, certain species of like, monkey, things like that, that we choose to put in Captivity. Most species have been thriving for at least tens of thousands of years. Like, just millions, maybe millions, you know, sharks, for sure. Millions, Hundreds of millions.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Sharks are older than trees, bro.

[Deontay Kyle]

You see what I'm saying? So you gotta think that if they've been. And. And then the vastness of Earth, which is the majority. I mean, the vastness of our Earth being water, and they've been thriving in water for millions of years, they have to have, like, an insane network and ecosystem and a complexity of language that might vary region to region like it does with us. You know what I mean?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah. They. They clearly have something that works so well that nothing could stop them for hundreds of millions of years. It's not clear that we have achieved that.

[Deontay Kyle]

Right? Yeah. Really?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Like, if we stay on the pace we're on now, I don't know that we would last 100 million more years. I don't even know if we left.

[Deontay Kyle]

A thousand, ten thousand? Like, no. Right.

[Justin Schaefer]

That's how you're measuring intelligence. Like the ability to sustain your livelihood

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

for that amount, which I think should be incorporated.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

I think that is a big form of intelligence, is just existence in and of itself. Like. Like, okay, for perfect example is the extinction of the dodo bird. And then when we see people that are stupid, we call them dodos. It's like we've already made that link to intelligence by your ability to survive. So I had a question for you specifically, but you can chime in, too, because you talk a lot about AI.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Thanks, bro, for allowing me to chime in if I have something to say. God damn, bro. Fucking honored. Proceed.

[Deontay Kyle]

You know what? I'm gonna tell you something y' all don't know about. This is an asshole, bruh. You know what I'm saying?

[Justin Schaefer]

He's dressed like one.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, he gotta see. Got a snow. Snow leopard. Snow leopard.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Everybody in this room likes this.

[Deontay Kyle]

I like it. Not like it. I would wear it. It's actually kind of my style. Yeah. But the thing is. Well, I just didn't want to direct it to him. And then you go ahead, do your thing.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Do your thing, bro.

[Deontay Kyle]

Y' all a duo, man. You know what I mean?

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

But right now, this is a solo. I'm just with you. I'm just with you. But listen. So I have. I have been kind of going back and forth with this idea about intelligence and how intelligence will create a class in the future with the, like, AI is. Is here and it's not stopping. And it's ever evolving. It's evolving fast. And I Think we clearly see signs of it kind of dumbing down people, or at least people like outsourcing intelligence in a way to like change critical thinking, right? So I have like this theory that it's like human intelligence will become a commodity in the future in a real way. Like the ability to critical think, original thought, taste, things like we were talking about before, will create an entire different class of people that's like not a form of currency within itself. What are your thoughts on that, man?

[Justin Schaefer]

I think that. I think you're on to something. I think it's compounded because genetic engineering is right around the corner as well. So if you have been on a New York City subway anytime recently, you might see some ads for this company called IVF plus. And this isn't an advertisement for them, but their whole tagline is like, have your best baby. And so what they basically do is they harvest some sex cells from the male and the female and they allow you to pick the genes associated with the best one and have those two fertilize each other to create a kid. Right? And that's a precursor. That's not genetic engineering directly because you're not changing the genes of the actual sperm cells or the egg cells, but you're allowing people to select the best gametes for themselves.

[Deontay Kyle]

And so like, in turn, I'm sorry to interrupt, but that could get rid of like some of the flaws, like addiction, trauma. That can get rid of traumas and

[Justin Schaefer]

could get rid of some of those things.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

That's the way that they will advertise it. Advertise it and sell it. But you can quickly see how that actually becomes a eugenics problem where people are trying to create because they have the means, more money, superior, physically superior beings.

[Deontay Kyle]

Right?

[Justin Schaefer]

And these, these same people with the means are these people that are becoming or having access to AI literacy tools, AI trainings, right? Like, I work with a lot of corporations and train them on some of the latest tools. I gotta get this stuff out the mud and learn it on my own and then teach it to these people. But it's the privileged class that really has the time, freedom to have access to download all this new information as it's coming in so fast. And so you have people that can utilize these super intelligent tools and people that are gonna be genetically engineering their families. Because, I mean, you know, if you think about it from this perspective, which I think is maybe adjacent to a eugenics argument, it's like if I'm a parent of a kid, I want to put my kid in the best schools or the best position to succeed in life, and if I have the means, like financially to engineer my best baby, then like, that sounds like a step in that direction. That's almost like akin to putting a kid in a good school. I don't think that it's something that the public is ready to digest, but I think that's inevitable.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And I don't think that that's eugenics adjacent. I think that that's straight up eugenics. That's like you're, you're aiming for genetic superiority. I think that that's straight up eugenics.

[Deontay Kyle]

And then what Gucci man did with

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

this child, I don't, I don't know.

[Deontay Kyle]

I think they like, like they chose like, what, what color eyes they wanted for the baby and.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

No.

[Justin Schaefer]

Oh, we got the wise framework. That one.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah. We have to.

[Justin Schaefer]

We got the fact check.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah.

[Justin Schaefer]

They wanted blue eyes.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I haven't heard about.

[Deontay Kyle]

They wanted blue eyes.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

They got.

[Deontay Kyle]

The baby got blue eyes.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Right.

[Deontay Kyle]

So.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

So some of these things are like cosmetic.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

That's not a problem.

[Deontay Kyle]

Right. I was like a recessive gene indicator of incest, whatever. Maybe I've heard that wrong.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I don't know, bro.

[Deontay Kyle]

I'm just saying that I do think

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

that blue eyes is recessive.

[Deontay Kyle]

Everything is not dark is recessive if it's not.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

But you know, whether or not he did it, it's on. It's like on the doorstep. It's something that people are going to be able to do very soon.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah. And I know that's kind of a different direction than probably what you were thinking.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

That's different, but more towards what you were saying. I think. Absolutely. It's a lot of people that go to chat GPT, for example, the one of these LLMs, large language models to get advice on, like, what to do next.

[Justin Schaefer]

Therapy.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

How do I respond to this text message? How do I respond to this email?

[Deontay Kyle]

Like, I'm all for.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

It's a tool.

[Deontay Kyle]

Right.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And I. It's a tool that I use at times and I'm able to like, leverage to learn new skills and do things that I otherwise couldn't do. But if you're losing the ability to, to like, make executive decisions for yourself, I think that you're absolutely right. There is going to be a difference between a generation that is become completely reliant upon what this machine is telling them back for how they live their lives and what they do to move forward and somebody else who can think for themselves.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah. And leverage the AI tools as intellectual sparring. Partners. So, you know, and this could look like on a practical level, it's like, how do you do this? Right. If you're prompting Chad. GPT. ChatGPT, because of the way it was built, has a tendency to be super affirming. Oh man, you're so smart. That's a great idea. Yeah. I killed somebody today. You know, that makes sense. You had a tough week. You know what I mean?

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Justin Schaefer]

But what you want to try to do when you're prompting these, it's not a mistake.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

It's gross.

[Deontay Kyle]

Right. Well, maybe they just didn't deserve to be here.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah. It'll find ways to just affirm wild stuff. But I always try to ask it one, to be critical and to be honest. Right. Like don't, don't give me.

[Deontay Kyle]

So you have to, you have to like train each model.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah. You have to prompt it to not be a yes man. And I think that's how you sharpen the output that you ultimately get in collaboration with AI instead of leaning on it to think for you.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, I just can't see myself. I'm too fucking hard headed anyway. Like as soon as somebody like gives me advice, I'm like that sound advice. I'm going to sit with that for a little bit.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

I'm going to try the opposite of that.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

First, what you should be able to do.

[Deontay Kyle]

Right.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Because it's not, it's not like necessarily this wise thing. It doesn't understand the context. Like when you and I talk to each other, I'm going to respond to you with full context, bro. Of like who you are, of what it means to be a human and what it feels like to be a man, to be black. Having my own experiences, having like some sort of relationship with you where like I care about you as a person. You're not getting any of that.

[Deontay Kyle]

It's actually just trying to like solve it. Like it's like task based. Right. So it's just like this is, I'm just completing this, you know, like Mr. Meeky's on Rick and Morty. That's how I kind of, I, I, in a way I look at it, hey, I'm Mr. Me. You know what I'm saying? So even what they said, like, don't ask it to do, don't ask it to do things that require like this complexity of thought. Like help me get my, like drive down, like give my golf cart.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Fix my marriage or whatever.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah. Fix my marriage. It's like, bro, I can't do that. Let me ask. It's like let me ask another Mr. Meeksis for, you know, it's like an invasive species of meeksies.

[Justin Schaefer]

And so that's the challenge with AI today is that what we like to say in this space is that the tools are becoming increasingly more agentic, meaning they're becoming more proactive in taking agency. And so a lot of times you hear this referred to in the context of AI agents. These are AI tools that talk to other AI tools and collaborate with each other to get a task done proactively. And so AI's agency, and you're Mr. Meeseeks analogy, AI's agency is becoming more and more capable of actually doing more complex things. And so people that are already lazy maybe aren't as stubborn like the idea of a yes man. These are people that are extremely at risk of, I would say almost atrophying of their brain as a result of just kind of again, reliance on these tools and not critically thinking.

[Deontay Kyle]

Okay, so quick question off of that first question. How far off is it to think that there will be entire cults based on the thoughts of LLM?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Oh, that is already cults.

[Justin Schaefer]

What was the one that we talked about?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Techno Robotheism.

[Justin Schaefer]

Robotheism. There's religions that are already like people already worshiping these.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

You've heard stories of, of this psychosis where yeah, it like convinces people that they think that they've like solved the math to understand the universe or that they've like cracked the code of God or something like that and have gone crazy and it's like convinced some people to like in their own lives.

[Justin Schaefer]

Right.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And so it's like that. And here's, and here's where I think personally that it's extremely nefarious is that, you know, all the, all the millions or I guess at this point hundreds of millions or billions of people that have communicated with it. It's storing everything. Right.

[Deontay Kyle]

For sure.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And so on their end they know on, on average what are people's like deepest fears, what are the tendencies that they have, like what insecurities that they have, what are the pressure points? How, how could you get this thing to communicate with, with Deontay Kyle to maybe push him in some direction on the issue. Right. And if you don't communicate with it a lot or you don't use it a lot, then they may not have that information on you in particular, but they may study every video that you've ever put online and build out the most in depth psychological profile on you that has ever been built by anybody ever.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And Be able to come to that same thing.

[Justin Schaefer]

It's called a digital twin. Yeah, they already do that.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah. So my homeboy actually told me, like, he encouraged me. He went to a conference in Dubai about AI. He was there for like a week. And he was like, bro, you need to just go ahead and make you a digital twin. They're already doing it. He was like, you need to upload every clip that you have. Every. He was like, just upload every episode of your podcast to this and just ask it to create a digital profile for you or at least whatever.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And I wouldn't do that if I was you, but they can do it themselves if they want to.

[Deontay Kyle]

I told him. I was like, put your stuff online. Well, I told him, yeah, it's public. It's publicly available. He was. That's what I told her. I was like, I'm not fucking doing that. It's weird. He's like, it's already there.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I wouldn't listen to a podcast or, like, follow somebody if I knew that it was the AI thing that was talking. Like, if it was your digital twin, bro, like, I'm not watching.

[Deontay Kyle]

Of course not. There's a human essence, right? Like we talked about before about this idea to, like, detect humanoid shit that ain't human. So I also want to follow that up with. Okay, we'll have. We'll have robotheism and, like, cults surrounding AI, but how far do you think we are from. Or how likely do you think it is that we'll have, like, a Terminator type situation where it becomes superior to humans?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I personally, I want to say that the way that, like, the LLMs are right now, that's, like, not necessarily something to worry about, but I think that there's reason to be concerned. And we see this. We see this. So there was a. An ethnic cleansing in Myanmar that was basically due to Facebook using their engagement algorithm. Right? Like, you know, people who are coding shit up the. Oh, this is what all the other algorithms do, by the way. They just told it to maximize engagement. They didn't really tell it exactly how to do it. They just wanted to find all the things that maximize engagement and show those to more people. And what it ends up showing to people is stuff that's enraging. Super inflammatory. I guess racist isn't the right word because it was an. It was an ethnic cleansing in Myanmar, but that is what was distributed to everybody. And it literally led to an ethnic cleansing in the country. And it was because they told the algorithm to. They trained it right to increase engagement. And it's. It decided to do that. And the way that it did. It increases engagement.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah. It doesn't give a fuck about like what the adverse effects of it are. It thinks about. It's just reading data. It's just reading data and it's like, well, this is the thing that kind of gets people engaged.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Show more.

[Deontay Kyle]

And I think that that's what we see a lot with on text based app. That's why I don't really like text based apps is because there's no human behind it. I can't see your face. So I don't know if this is a person behind this or a robot.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

It's true.

[Deontay Kyle]

And a lot of times what are bots doing? They're sparking, they're stoking fires with people. They're saying controversial things. Yeah. Because that does get a lot of engagement.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

You want to talk about some goofy shit, bro, is imagine you sitting there arguing with a literal robot, an AI bot that you could never change their mind, right? Yeah, no, they're going to, they're literally trained to, to, to poke you, Right.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

To be contrarian, whatever it is. And yeah, it's like that's some goofy. And I wouldn't be surprised if most of the accounts online, frankly are. Are AI bots.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah. If there's not a person behind it, I'm not following it. That's just like my thing. Even if you share content, like even if it's a positive, unless it's like overwhelmingly positive and good news, I'll. I'll around. But yeah, if you just share other content, I'm definitely not following you. If I never get to see your face, I'm not tapping in. I might block it because I just don't like, I don't like the idea of like something like making an attempt to. With me just for engagement. And it's like what it's doing, bro, that is exactly what it's doing. And it's not even money.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

It's actually been doing that. These recommendation algorithms have been doing this for would you say like a decade at this point?

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah, they've gotten really, really good.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

The decisions are being made by machines for what hits your feed.

[Deontay Kyle]

When someone. When too much. Like when too much similar videos are starting to flood me after I notice like, okay, I've been on the phone for like 30 minutes just scrolling and then I'll just. You'll hit like a switch where it's the same videos over and over. But it's getting intense. Like I'M having an emotional response to it. I'm like, I gotta get the fuck out of here. Yeah, I gotta get the fuck out of here.

[Justin Schaefer]

So that's, I think that's. We kind of have described the algorithmic, kind of like Internet based version of this, which is one side of the Terminator equation. The other side of it is having physically capable, what's called embodied AI, physical robots that can move around. And I think most people don't really understand where that technology is at today. So, you know, when we think of robots and what they're historically capable of in terms of dexterity, we think of someone doing a robot, like a robot kind of moving. We talk about this all the time. Like robots in Boston Dynamics can do stuff that none of us in this room can do in terms of like gymnastics, triple backflips, all kind of stuff.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah. Boston Dynamics been on it for like 10, 15 years.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah. And China has some competing robots as well that can do a lot of these tasks. But one of the most important breakthroughs that's about to happen is building what's called a world model. So the same way that ChatGPT uses large language model technology to understand the English language and basically give us something that convinces authentically. Looks like a well thought out essay, maybe with a few holes and gaps. Robots have to build a model for understanding physics and how the world works. That's something that is way more complicated actually. And you know, at least by this definition, way deeper of a signifier of intelligence because it's something we do so intuitively like. Yeah, yeah, you adjust your microphone because you think it's wrong. Like a robot has to understand so many things.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Right.

[Justin Schaefer]

I have to understand how to grasp, move a microphone. Why is it important for me to be doing this task in the first place?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

What's the right distance from the thing?

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, all these things that are just like instinctual for us, like we don't even think about.

[Justin Schaefer]

Right.

[Deontay Kyle]

So that is that it's actively learning in real time.

[Justin Schaefer]

Exactly.

[Deontay Kyle]

To the point where when it becomes fluid is no reversing it.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

Actually every model after it will be an improvement on that model, which means it'll become more fluid, it'll become more optimized and like that.

[Justin Schaefer]

So here's the crazy thing, man, like a lot of people don't know about this. We talk about. Nvidia is one of the most valuable companies in the world. World now. They have this platform called the Omniverse. It's basically like a gym for robots. You ever watch Dragon Ball Z. Yeah, I remember the Hyperbaric Time Chamber.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Justin Schaefer]

How you go in there and you train for, like, you know, in time crunches. So with robots, you know, you think it could take a long time to teach them how to move in a factory. Right. But you can run a simulation of 10,000 robots working for a hundred thousand hours longer than, you know, or millions of hours in maybe a couple of days. And so these robots are basically going to the gym and learning how to do all these things on a much more expedited time scale. And so they're getting better and better. Now you have viral videos coming out of robots picking up dishes, putting them in a dishwasher, closing it autonomously all on its own, without instruction from anybody.

[Deontay Kyle]

How do you feel like that, for one? I think that there's a certain level of embrace that we've already experienced. I think we'll experience it a lot more when it comes to convenience of people. Like, we're okay with humans making damn near no money to deliver us food, so we don't have to leave the house. But when we can outsource that to a robot, and let's just say it's a Waymo that pulls up and it's like the Waymo is outside. All you gotta do is go to the car and get the food. Yeah. I mean, you're still not leaving your house, though. It's like picking up the mail from the mailbox at that point.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

They can even have a robot in the Waymo that just brings it up to your door.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah. If they. You know what I'm saying? If it gets that busy. Right. Because it doesn't need the robot to drive the car. The car is a robot in and of itself. We see those little package robots that

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

just deliver cocoa things they drive and.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, and then we was looking at today about the Hummer taxi. The Robo Taxi.

[Justin Schaefer]

Robo taxi service.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah. So it's like the thing that makes us the most skeptical automatically is how it interacts and how it's applied in traffic because of how dangerous it is. But it's not that every day, tasks that people, like, want to do. So, like, what part of this is like, from some irobot. We have, like a robot in the house just helping us with everyday tasks.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I think some people. People like Elon Musk, that's his wildest dream, that there's one of these in your house and everybody's house.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Justin Schaefer]

And there already are those in people's houses. It's called Neo. It's A robot that exists already.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Is it in people's houses?

[Justin Schaefer]

It's in people's houses. It's still being piloted. So they run a program where the robots haven't built their own physical world models. So they'll have a person wearing a VR headset with cameras in your house that controls the robot, is training it on how to do tasks. So that's already happening.

[Deontay Kyle]

So how much of that. Okay, so how much of the way that we feel about it is rooted in just fear of being dominated by something other than ourselves? Because we obviously are okay with us, ourselves being dominated as long as it's other humans. Maybe not in theory, but obviously in action.

[Justin Schaefer]

I'm more of a dom. For real?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

For real.

[Deontay Kyle]

I don't.

[Justin Schaefer]

I'm not really a sub.

[Deontay Kyle]

I'm just saying socially, it seems like we're okay with a few people controlling every aspect of our life. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. So.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

It's like just overly freaked out sometimes.

[Deontay Kyle]

I'm just saying. You know what I'm saying?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

I just, like, I'm just thinking about what it was. Was saying. Yeah, but what about, like, how much of. How much of do you feel like is just our fear versus, like we. We think about what can go wrong versus what can go. Right. That's just like a pessimistic human thing anyway.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah. Well, one of the things that could go wrong that we should be afraid of, in my opinion, is that we've now talked about these two separate things. Right. We've talked about, like, these AI systems that are going to be able to do stuff that people do and just like take all their jobs. And then we've also talked about, like, robots that are doing physical things, which is a completely separate thing, like any blue collar thing that is required, where a person is required to be doing something physical. Well, if there's a robot, they can also do that and also has like, whatever software system has been developed that's, you know, just for this conversation, I'll say super intelligent. Then what are people doing at all? Do we trust that, that there's going to be like some supportive and robust UBI system? I don't trust that at all. It doesn't seem like that's what's being set up right now by the government.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And so what's the negative side of that? Is that because it's what you said, it's not stopping. Right. We can all hate it. We can all hop online and make videos every day and say that, you know, this is Something that we need to slow down, but it's not slowing down and it's not stopping.

[Deontay Kyle]

Right.

[Justin Schaefer]

And so my question from there becomes, what is the most empowered position an individual can find themselves in in this scenario? Right. And I, because I struggle with that question too. And for me, the answer has become, get good at using the tools. At the very, at the very least, I can become a producer by my ability to manipulate these different AI tools in a way that can maybe benefit my business, teach other people how to use them and things like that. But that also is like something that may be replaceable one day. But I mean, this is kind of like my. When I saw the way that things are going, I was like, I gotta learn this stuff. Like, technology is kind of my thing, so I need to help people understand this. And I feel like that's the most empowered position that anybody can be in. Not like vilifying this thing. That, yes, deserves to be vilified in many ways and just therefore avoiding it. But in fact, like learning how to be a power user and take more control of their future, Whatever that's gonna look like in this space.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah, it's like there's no great answers, but a bad answer unequivocally has to be ignore it and hope that it goes away.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, that's just not a thing. So the thing is that. But my first stance, and of course, like the popular stance is about the effects to the environment. But one thing that you, that I listen to about you, and then one thing that I've heard supported is that there's a lot of different ways that we waste water. There's a lot of different ways that we plunder resources that have nothing to do with these robots and stuff like this T shirts or golf course.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Every industry is burger meat. Every single industry you can think of is harmful to.

[Deontay Kyle]

So then it gets me to this point right here where it's like, well, when there was, when IBM, when they started making personal computers, of course people had pushback about that. Like, I don't want no computer in my home. And woo, doop, whoop, same thing. Cordless phones, same thing. Every iteration of like upgraded technology comes with like a certain amount of pushback. But. But the more investment that's put into it and the more that people realize, like, well, this is here to stay, then there's finally an embrace. Which is why I wanna talk about outsourcing intelligence, which is why I wanna talk about, like, how is it gonna outsource jobs and what is gonna be the benefit to Humans, as far as a form of, like, quality of life and freedom, like, do we become subject to this shit or do we thrive? Because now all of the things that make the company's money, they. They get their slave model that they want without. The only thing they invest is maintenance of said robots. And humans kind of are free from the labor force. But then where does that leave us? And the other idea that comes along with that is, yeah, we'll be free from labor, but we will be overly surveyed. Like, literally every aspect of our walk in life will be under surveillance. Which, I mean, to some extent it is now 100%. Yeah, it is now. You know what I'm saying? We see that. But then how does that change human behavior in the sense of, like, impulsiveness? You know, does it get rid of crime if there is no poverty or whether people. There's still gonna be people who are impulsive to crime, to violence, to things like that, but then there's literally an impossibility of getting away with it. And then this comes with society's split of underground networking, black market networking, under off the grid as people versus people who are just fully immersed in it. Right. How do y' all feel about that from a perspective of surveillance and the uptick of surveillance in like a Running man type situation?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

It was a. You said a ton right there. I think one day. No, no, no.

[Deontay Kyle]

I was on a stream.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

No, yeah, for sure. I think that one thing that sticks

[Deontay Kyle]

out to me, I can never.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Is that there's actually an amendment. In my. In my opinion, there's an immense tension between these AI companies are going to get what they want because they're going to get their, like, free slave labor. That's not a human. It doesn't need to eat or whatever and doesn't have emotions and doesn't need breaks. And that. That is going to give us freedom. Right. Because it's like if that's the thing that they're wanting to get, what we're talking about is them getting an enormous amount of wealth from it, basically. Right. That's what would make them happy from that perspective. Well, if that's what happens, then I don't buy that the situation is such that the people that, like, people are being taken care of in a way that they can thrive because they want us. Almost like if you. Exactly. So it's almost like if it is the case that we all get freed up and can do whatever we want, they're not getting the sort of maximal, you know, profit on.

[Deontay Kyle]

On the thing because they still have to outsource.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

It's kind of like in our current system, it's like got. It's like one or the other. Right. It's not this everybody. It could be like that if we change things, but that's not how it is now. And then I think the other thing is that we're already under complete and utter surveillance.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

In a way that the most staunch Stalinists, like Joseph Stalin in the ussr, they surveilled everybody. They had a. They had an organization that surveilled the citizens, and then they had an organization that surveilled the people surveilling. And then there was people surveilling them, but they're doing it manually. Right. It's like a guy shows up and he just kind of like follows you around all day. Now we know we put everything online. This is listening to us. It's at least five or six cell phones in this room.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I wouldn't be surprised if everything that we're saying is getting recorded to multiple companies. Right. Not just Apple. I wouldn't be surprised. Like, I don't know. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

[Deontay Kyle]

Also, it's something that we've become completely known. Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

It's like, people know what happens. How many times you didn't. Have you talked about something and saw an ad recently?

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We've all like. But see, this is the other thing, too, is that we don't. We. The thing we've gotten away from is that we understand that, like, symbiosis with technology. But then we also, like, disregard, like, other senses that humans have. Like, you ever thought about somebody and they called you, like, those type of. What's the word for that? Like, telekinetic senses that people seem to have. Like, that we ignore how if we don't have to engage in labor and things like that. There's also a theory that those sort of communications enhance. If we're not. I don't know. Yeah, I think there's something to it, though. But I think that as long as we're like.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I also think there's so much of existence for now, at least in the US People's sense of meaning is absolutely tied to, like, the thing that they do for work, the amount of money that they make.

[Deontay Kyle]

Absolutely.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And it's. But that is like, the way that it is and.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah. Because they don't want to be a part of a slave class. Yeah, that's. That's literally what it's tied to. Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

It's your, yeah, like your social status, your sense of identity, your higher, you know, where you fit in the hierarchy. And so it's like how quickly can you, can you get that out of people?

[Deontay Kyle]

I don't know, man. I mean you got to think this is a fairly new technology that hasn't been around. The world has changed like as far as technology over the last 26 years. Fumble vastly. You know, some saying we like even every five years it just feels like a completely different world that we're living in.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah, right.

[Deontay Kyle]

Because from 2000, where is the millennial, the, the turn of the millennia and to 2005 we live in a completely different world. We go from like Texans and now we're recording videos. Five years later we have full blown social media. Five years later we got like content creators and influencer. Five years after that TikTok emerges which makes the everyday person famous. Five years now, like podcasts and all these different things and AI and like every five years we're living in a completely different technology, technological world.

[Justin Schaefer]

And I think if you want a snapshot into the short term future, this is something we said we were going to talk about. I got to mention Asia. Like the experiences that you have in Asia. Like, like I've been in Japan, Thailand, Singapore. Actually was one of the samurai over

[Deontay Kyle]

here, one of the craziest.

[Justin Schaefer]

But no man is nuts, I shit you not. The airport is the most gorgeous thing I ever seen. Like they build, there's, they call it passive design. It's like green architecture. They build plants inside of every piece of architecture. Oh yeah, it's beautiful, but you can't even spit gum on the street. You get arrested. Arrested for it. So it's a dystopian kind of like world that they're in there in China and Japan they have these bullet trains that go 180 miles per hour. Humanoid robots are like starting to walk the streets in parts of China.

[Deontay Kyle]

They already deliver food inside. Like they're robotic waitresses and things like that.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah. And I think part of the indoctrination of being born in America and just being spoon fed the American dream and all these other things is embracing hyper individualism and American exceptionalism. And you know, quickly when you go to other places, you realize it is not what we thought it was both in terms of the quality of food. Right. The, the actual products that the FDA allows to put in our food, the quality of life that you can possibly have, the cleanliness of the air and the advancement of the technology. So I can't say that, you know, everybody claims that they have a higher quality of life in parts of Asia. But I think it is an interesting snapshot.

[Deontay Kyle]

How much do you think that the success of Asia, the advancements of Asia, is one, tied to political alignment, like how they align their entire countries around one idea of politics just in China being communism, and two, it being a homogenous society where there is like, there's not enough people to even like, consider a caste as far as race and things like that. Where in America, like a lot of the lack of advancement in America is because the majority of white population doesn't want black people and other people of color to have anything. They're anti immigration, they're anti progressive. When it comes to sexual expression, you have.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

You have built in people at the bottom.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, built in. Right. And so it's like, even if. Even if I'm poor and white and my grandmother needs the free health care, if that means a black person is going to get it, I'm good. Which is like a snake eating his own tail type situation where they don't even realize how their ideology harms them in that way. One, I think that there's situations where AI is helping just rectify that directly head on with Grok, where people will try to make racist claims to this AI model that will refute those racist claims with actual facts in real time and they'll be pissed off. But this also has like no skin in the game.

[Justin Schaefer]

It's talking about Mecca Hitler. Yeah, because Grog has made his mistakes.

[Deontay Kyle]

No, no, it has his ways. But I'm saying I've also seen examples where it just goes directly. And I don't trust this Elon Musk's whole thing.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

Whatever that is. But I think to your point, it's like Asia is mostly operates in like homogeneous, like mostly homogenous societies that don't have the same problems that America have. And a lot of America's lack of progression is because of the melting pot, so to speak.

[Justin Schaefer]

It is challenging culturally for us to get on the same page about anything. Even like, the idea of being patriotic seems a little unsettling. I think especially as a black American. I can't really only time I felt remotely patriotic was during the Olympics.

[Deontay Kyle]

That's all niggas. Yeah. Like, that's period. The only time is on. On patriotism is when we like, all right, my. It's America time. And specifically if it's a black American representing us.

[Justin Schaefer]

Right.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah. I'm not tripping on like, who wins the shot put unless it's a. And I'm like, hey, go America. You know?

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah. And so in the time that I spent in Japan, and Japan is not at the forefront of the extent that China is. I haven't explored China to the extent that I want to. But Japan, they have this idea of honor. Right. Like bringing honor to your family and even like public. Like there's almost no crime in Japan. Even a lot of black women that I met, you know, have been to Japan. They'll say they walk around Japan at 3 in the morning, they feel okay. They don't feel unsafe at all. And a part of that is because of this idea of bringing shame. Right. And so imagine like the fear. We don't have this at all. But imagine get away with shame. Yeah. It's like, man, like, imagine the most

[Deontay Kyle]

shameless society on earth.

[Justin Schaefer]

Like, and we're praised for. For it.

[Deontay Kyle]

Right.

[Justin Schaefer]

We think of stuff like, you know, like the trash reality TV and all these other things is like, well, how can you be as bold and shameless as possible and not care about your bag?

[Deontay Kyle]

That's all. The thing is. That's that part exactly is what I was going to say. You can't maximize profits as you have shame.

[Justin Schaefer]

Right.

[Deontay Kyle]

You know what I mean? Like, I need to see people fighting

[Justin Schaefer]

on tv, but I think you can.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Engagement. Yeah. Maximizing it.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Justin Schaefer]

But you. But you can perhaps maximize the profitability of a country by indexing on homogeneous.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

That's not a value judgment.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Justin Schaefer]

Because you get everybody to cooperate.

[Deontay Kyle]

Cooperate. Everybody cooperates and everybody looks like you. So it's like, you know what I'm saying? It's like the. So there's this idea like that rabbit meat is very healthy for humans and it's a lot easier to harvest because of how they produce. But the idea that killing a rabbit for most people is just out because of how cute the money is is like kind of how I view homogeneous societies is like they view it as a killing of themselves. We're in a society where you have people to clearly step down on and they don't look like you and they don't express themselves culturally.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And then they use language that literally frames them as an animal. They're rats. They're illegal aliens.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Something that is not human.

[Deontay Kyle]

They're not like, they like very humanized. Yeah, yeah. The dehumanization part is like, that's the vehicle for a lot of that thing. Because even when we talk about places like Sweden or the Netherlands or things like that, these are also homogenous that

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

are Also racist against like immigrants that try to go to those countries, by the way.

[Deontay Kyle]

Sure. I think everything exists in probably those Asian countries.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah. I mean I experienced a little racism in Japan, but it didn't feel like the racism with the potential for violence the way it does in America. People were just like, oh, you're exotic. I never seen one of you before. You hoop or something.

[Deontay Kyle]

It's more like a microaggression of stereotypes.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Right.

[Justin Schaefer]

But it doesn't even feel aggressive, man. And that's from having experience.

[Deontay Kyle]

Like it feels like ignorance.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah, it feels like. It feels like ignorance, but it's almost like, it's almost like, I don't know, like not. It doesn't feel negatively coded, you know what I mean? In the same way that you might experience a microaggression in a workplace or by somebody at the grocery store clutching their purse when you walk past. You know, it's not like that.

[Deontay Kyle]

So I think the thing is, is that we have like a specific history here that is not addressed. But it's also like the foundational thing. It's like, it's also not something we want to like necessarily undo it. Like when we talk about AI models and things like that, my feeling towards it is that they want to recreate that this is their like idea of capitalism is like a complete for profit system where they get to control and dictate the prices, but also they control like the wealth exchange in that sense. Like it's almost. So a thing is like, like if you born poor, like if you're born poor, you may be paid in power, but you won't ascend like the political letter, you want to send the wealth letter or anything like that. And if you so happen to do that, you also still are an outsider to the people who generationally have had this.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Also be point also be sort of painted as a, a poster child of like how you can do this thing.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

That is impossible for most people to do by virtue of it being done by somebody at the bottom. Right?

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Because that's not possible for everybody to do that. And what, like replace the people at the top? Of course that's not going to happen.

[Deontay Kyle]

No.

[Justin Schaefer]

Well, that's, that's how the athlete and entertainer narrative is marketed to us.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

[Justin Schaefer]

And I mean that's why, you know, part of the, the, the mission of what we do with curiosity theory is making STEM careers, which are on average a lot of the highest paying careers in the world right now, feel more accessible to people. Because that is a A place where you can work hard and have a higher percentage chance of success in a field Absolutely. Creating a sustainable income.

[Deontay Kyle]

We do the same thing over here where we advocate for trades because me and Big Cat are both tradesmen and we found our way in commercial driving. But like we also have worked with all these other tradesmen. Especially like when you deliver into these big union jobs and you see electricians and plumbers and H vac technicians and welders and it's just, you see the whole spectrum of it. It's like, oh man. Any, like, you know, anybody relatively can do this. You know what I mean?

[Justin Schaefer]

Like all AI proof at least for the near term.

[Deontay Kyle]

For the next, I would say, you know, at least the next 10. There's a heavy push to get rid of the commercial truck driver. I actually understand why there's a push to start there more than anywhere else because it's the import export thing. So like I don't have to give the truck 10 hours off. I don't have to give it 36 hour break after 72 hours. I can literally run it as long as the truck is running. And it's. Would diagnostic diagnose itself so there's no human error. There's no, oh, this tire is running flat. I'll just wait until it blows. There's no, there's a, a blinker like the, a light flash and I'll just ignore it until I get to the next spot. There's no guesswork. It's like a fully internalized thing where it will fix itself if it needs to or it will expedite the process of being fixed so I can get back to work. Like it's all task based. Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And what's super fucked up, bro, is what you're describing. Everything you're describing makes sense. And it's like from the business side, this, that's obvious decision to make. And it's like. And you see how when taken to its extreme and technologically accelerated in every way, capitalism ends with the complete minimization of what it even means to be a human person.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Like why are we even in a society if ultimately what is the goal is to create just a working machine?

[Deontay Kyle]

Yes.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

It has none of the weaknesses of the, the weaknesses.

[Deontay Kyle]

Well, so this is the human. But this is the, this is the thing of. This is where we get the Black Panthers being completely communist is where they understand, like it never stops. Like, like production is never enough. Labor is never enough. They want your time, they want your thoughts, they want your emotions, they want you Fully invested into a system that doesn't benefit you at all. And so to your point, it's like, at what point do we either divest from it or just succumb to it, like in a real way?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Well, you see, at a point like that, it becomes too late. Like when you can, when the human can be completely replaced, it's like it's too late.

[Deontay Kyle]

Well, and then also like, what is American society without humans?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And then what is humanity without humanity?

[Deontay Kyle]

Right. So, but, but the reason why I say American society is because you see an increasing number of expats, you see the way they're talking about it, and then do we go other places and experience like some form of like disruption to their homogeny or do we have a back to Africa movement? Do we go invest in Brazil where there's also a diversity of, of race and mostly black people? Like, you're gonna have. A lot of people are leaving. You know, I've had friends that left and moved to Thailand permanently.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah, same.

[Deontay Kyle]

You know what I'm saying? And it's like, I think that people who are smart enough to see how hostile it is politically and how fast they're barreling down towards like, not only like advancing the most technological advances, but the most human regression that we've seen in quite some time. What are your opinions on that as far as like scientists and you know, astrophysicists is like, do you feel like you even have security in this space in America, or do you feel like you need to make the pivot is to invest more into understanding AI models and artificial intelligence for like job security?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Well, they say that these models will be able to do like physics research. I don't believe that yet, but based on everything that I know, I guess, like, I don't understand why that can't be. Why that won't be possible at some point.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah, Google DeepMind, there's like 400, and I might be misquoting this, there's like 400 historically unsolvable math problems. And Google DeepMind, I believe, just solved four of them that humans have been unable to solve. So it's now doing frontier research in mathematics.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

So. So yeah, I mean, it's like I know a lot of, I've talked to a lot of people in my field and they're not really ultra concerned about it. We good?

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, we're good. No, I'm just saying like, we, we are overly nerded now. Like, I'm with this. I could do this for another hour. Go ahead.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah, no, I think I Forget what I was saying.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And I've talked to a lot of people, astronomers and astrophysicists, and they say, like, they thought about it, but they don't really think that it can replicate what they do now. And I think that that's true for now, but I guess I just wouldn't write that off based on what we've seen. I mean, 10 years ago, bro, you couldn't. I wouldn't have believed that. That, like, these chat bots would be where they are, bro. I wouldn't believe that at all. I wouldn't.

[Justin Schaefer]

Exponential growth trajectory. And it's hard for our brains to conceptualize.

[Deontay Kyle]

It's moving faster than we can fool you. Like, I think the other thing too is like, we've. We've been. We've bought into the idea of human evolution taking thousands and thousands of years. So to see how fast this has evolved over the last 10 to 15, it's like, it doesn't make sense to us because it's like we haven't seen anything evolved, nothing on this time, that fast. Right.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

And. And to that point, in five years, like, we don't. I mean, honestly, in one year, it's going to be, like, unrecognizable to what it is now, but we're living in a completely different reality.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah. And to that point, I mean, you talked before about this idea of perhaps spreading your seeds a little bit overseas. You know, we talked about this a little bit offline. I've been traveling, backpack through Thailand, traveled through Japan, did Barcelona, Mexico City, Morocco, the top of this year. And a big part of that for me is prospecting. You know, Like, I don't necessarily think, you know, I've worked hard in my career, so I put myself in a position to be able to do this, at least to the extent that I can. And I'm like, it seems wise again. After going to Thailand, meeting the expats that decided to move there and stay there, it seems wise to kind of plant some seeds, make some investments, identify opportunities in other parts of the world where, you know, black Americans may feel a little bit less, you know. Yeah. Less of the things that we all have felt just growing up here in America and thinking this is the end all, be all, there may be some greener grass, especially in the next five years, where things are gonna become unrecognizable in America. That doesn't mean that I don't wanna ever have roots in America. That doesn't mean I don't wanna have impact in America. But as a black American, you know, this is kind of unrelated, but I'm gonna make a point. So. So the Barack Obama presidency was inspiring for a lot of black Americans. Right. People had their critiques of Barack, but this idea of a black man being able to be the president inspired a lot of young people to enter into political office. I was one of those young people that was inspired. And then I feel like I became a little disenchanted from the idea of politics because. Not necessarily because I'm anti voting and things like that, but more so I'm like, well, what exactly is it that I'm committed to upholding, and why is that a necessary doctrine that I need to live my life by?

[Deontay Kyle]

You know, we get a little fickle about getting involved with the empire.

[Justin Schaefer]

Right?

[Deontay Kyle]

Right, precisely.

[Justin Schaefer]

And it's like, well, there's other places that, you know, you can build, you know, and so why does it have to be.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah. Be like, basically because you were born here, right? This is the thing that you're gonna pledge your life to, Right?

[Deontay Kyle]

Well, and this is also like, a very. I don't know if archaic is the right word, but it's like, this is an entire planet for humans.

[Justin Schaefer]

It's a globalized society.

[Deontay Kyle]

And I think. And I think that, like, the global. Yeah. Being global. Right. Like, I think nationalism, it just gets to a point where it gets weird, especially when we start talking about, like, the way that white nationalism or Christian nationalism shows up. It's an exclusion of everybody who isn't that. So then what does black nationalism become? Does it become an exclusion of everything? And we don't live in a homogenous society, so we also, like, are one of the smaller populations in this country. Even if we've been here the longest, that's intentional as well. So we get into this thing where it's like, nobody. That if you're not straight and white, you're not safe. You're not straight, white, male, you're not safe. And also, their rhetoric is that they're not safe. So then it's like. It's like this. Like, this country in and of itself, doesn't make sense anymore. It has no, like, real direction, because the direction is only divisiveness and growth in divisiveness. So, like, to Dakota's point, it's like these models being trained to just, like, engage with you, and then you get a situation like that where you have, like, an ethnic cleansing. That is something that I feel is being, like, pushed more and more in this society. I think it starts as immigration politics. And then it slowly gets into like, well, if anybody is like, what is America? And who is America for? And then when we start thinking about that, then it's like, for people who don't see themselves fitting into that narrative or fit into the ideals of the empire, maybe it's best we fucking leave while we can. And a lot of people have already taken those actions. But then there's other people who are idealic, like me. Like, you know, my people was here all these years and contributed so much blood to this fucking society even being what it is. It's like, I kind of want to stay here and see it through. Like, this is where I'm comfortable. But is it that comfort and idealism that keeps you here? Or is it like time to make a hard decision to say I need to dip, you know what I mean? And then also that comes down to a money thing. So then it's also there could be a thing where if you take ubi, then you're not allowed to leave the country. Country, maybe a part of Universal basic. Look, the way these move, Universal basic income is like locked in here. Yeah. You have to forfeit a passport.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

If you take Universal Basic Income. Because what are the. What are the guidelines around food stamps? What are the guidelines around welfare? It's also, there's a weird guidelines there that keep you in a position of poverty.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah. I mean, so. So here's an interesting take. There's an economist by the name of Ray Dalio, and he is a big YouTube video that is kind of blown up in recent years. And it highlights the downfall of empires. And he studied these empires throughout the course of history. And it's the sequence of events that occurs that precedes the downfall of the leading empire of the they always fall. So one of the. One of the things that that occurs is that, well, right now what we have in the United States is what's called a reserve currency, Right. The US dollar is strong. And so we receive investment from people all over the world in the US Dollar because they believe in the strength of it. That's why the US dollar can be exchanged in all kinds of other places as a reserve currency. It's no longer backed by the gold that it used to be backed by. The dollar is weakening on a year over year basis. And simultaneously, you see the early stages of immigration, People that are leaving the country because they're trying to pursue better opportunities in other places. And so these are kind of some of the precursors to an inevitable fall of an empire the actions that we take now could extend that fall or they could delay that fall rather. But that fall is inevitable. Could happen in our lifetimes, could not.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, but there's also the. The part of what we talked about earlier of people, like, making a conscious decision not to reproduce is also a sign of like, a falling, a failing society as well. So not only do you have people that want to desperately leave, but also people that don't want to reproduce because they're. And the rhetoric around it is like, why would I bring a child into this world?

[Justin Schaefer]

Right.

[Deontay Kyle]

When like, this world, our reflection of this world, is only American society and like, other countries are not having that experience at all. And then you also have black people who are looking to Africa as like, oh, these are like some of the most, like, booming societies and economies that we're seeing in the world right now, and the youngest populations of people. So not only have they stood the test of time as far as, like, empires and just being the original continent, but this idea that, like, there's so much potential there, you know what I'm saying? Like, maybe I try it there and it's like, of course there's gonna be an adaptation as an adjustment. And every society has this, like, fault lines, but, you know, at least I'll be around people that look like me. That's like, literally what America teaches you is like, go where you. Where you recognize yourself.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

And like, that pride and resurgence for us is seen as a problem in greater society. Like, why do these black people want to be by themselves and separated? Why do they want their own? Why do they want a Wall Street? Like, why do they. You know what I mean? But like, when it's done for them, it's like a projection of fear that, like, you're gonna do to me what I did to you. So now we have to, like, tighten up on things. Now we have to get rid of people that don't look like us. Because it's like this chicken coming home to roosting where everybody can see this shit is crumbling.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the signs are there. And so, you know, when, even when you think of things like a retirement portfolio, right. Which a lot of people, if you work a 9 to 5 today, you put your money in a, you know, an investment accounter, you have a financial advisor, they're investing on your behalf. Real estate, the US dollar, US stock companies, like most people's actual investments are purely tied to US based concepts. And so if the US as a concept becomes defunct or no longer exists, that's all. That's all of your life's work that you've now put in one thing.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

What a depressing thing to think about,

[Justin Schaefer]

but like one of the most important things, one of the most important things I find financial advisors will teach you is the importance of diversification. Yeah, right. But most of us are over indexed on US assets and us as a concept. And if there is a possibility that in our lifetimes the US as a concept may not exist, then it sounds smart to diversify my investments of time, energy, money.

[Deontay Kyle]

So as we talk about like the ways that we're talking about two things right at the same, it's a simultaneous conversation of like, like what are the downfalls of society that have been already substantiated and like just structurally are failing and at their like within. And then this advancement of technology, which can hold a bright future or a more dystopian future for us, depending on like what angle it takes. And American society as we know it will take the dystopian approach. But for you specifically, this is something I've seen you talk about. This is also a strong stance that we hold out over here. But what do you see being like some of the adverse effects of gamified gambling and not only its effects on our society, but our effects on our young men specifically.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah, well, I think that first of all, it's. It's one of these like leading indicators to failure that Justin was talking about where it's like from a game theory perspective, young men are more risk takers then they are. They're like, they are risk takers. Right. Like high testosterone literally correlated with more risky behavior. So take more risks. And if you live in an environment where it seems like things are coming to an end, it doesn't seem like there's many ways that you can find this rapid success. Everybody that you see online is like, you're getting blasted with this short form. TikTok. Here's three like life hacks to like get you right. I mean to, to feel successful, you're usually gonna have to like build something that may take like a decade or more. Right. And that's not the messaging that you get online. It makes more sense, I think from that game theory perspective to if the risk is high and the. The reward is high, then like it and gamble. And you see how people quickly get addicted to day trading is another form of that. You know, it's just gambling. People that are like gambling their entire paychecks or like gambling on their houses.

[Deontay Kyle]

Right.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Like people are. And I think it's just a sign that everybody feels like we're screwed. There are these. There are these things that happen in animals when everything is going wrong. You know, we talked about built this, like, rat city experiment where they. They like, built this thing and they gave all the rats all the food that they need, and their. Their population exploded, and then it got over dense and they started eating the babies. They started getting neurotic and killing each other. But they had everything they needed. They had they, you know, to sleep, wake up. They have food, they have water. And there's like, something that I think biological animals can detect going wrong. And I think that the. How we see these ads, man, these guys, like, who. The biggest black names you could think of. LeBron, Drew Ski, Kevin Hart, all pushing. Pushing this gambling podcast because the people who own those companies have realized that this is a thing that is sort of. That they can capitalize on what. Whatever is going wrong in society right

[Deontay Kyle]

now and what part of that is. So there's a greater collective sense that we all have where we're all feeling the same thing at the same time, even if we're not communicating it audibly. It's something we're admitting to one another or that's being admitted to us, like we are in danger and we're trying to, like, intellectualize the situation by things we can observe. But there's also something happening in society that's not being intellectualized. Like, women are choosing not to have babies, and men are being forced. Well, not forced, but they're being. It's being pushed to them. They're being, like, incentivized to gamble. They're being incentivized to take male enhancement drugs like TRT at a young age and all these things. And so it's like there's a rhetoric around it, like you're less manly. So these are the things that make you more than. When the reality is making more of a man more of a man. And then you gamble, you need to take bigger risk. And if you're on TRT and testosterone makes you take more risk, then all of these things seem extremely advantageous.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

It's all connected. It's a big, disgusting snowball.

[Deontay Kyle]

It's like a cartel, almost, of marketing and advertisement that's directed, like. Yeah, directed specifically at young men.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And it's.

[Justin Schaefer]

And.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And that's who's vulnerable. And it's exactly the wrong thing to be doing. I mean, just what Justin was just talking about, he's talking about sitting back and making calculated investments, thinking through these things. Critically and saying like, well, you know, what should I be investing in? And you know, the gambling ad is telling you do the exact opposite. Like, it do this, you gonna hit big on your, you know, whatever pit, whatever parlay you hit, you're gonna hit big. And you, you'll be rich by tonight.

[Deontay Kyle]

And that's another thing about addiction. This is a world that I know. Like, I know addiction in my family, I know addiction personally, I know addiction in my neighborhood that, oh, we're just gonna give you $50, your first $50 is free. Well, and it was like, how, but how long does a person who smokes a gram or snorts a gram or take one pill, how long do they stay on the one pill? How long do they stay on a gram? Eventually it's a 3, 5. Eventually it's a, it's a, it's a quarter. Eventually. I need five pills to function eventually. You know what I mean? It's like, and if I can't make this money at my job, then eventually I'm putting my house on the line, I'm titling, I'm pawning off the title to my car. I'm doing all these things that are like, representative of like severe addiction, but doesn't feel like addiction. When I get on my phone, when I get on the tv and it's constantly being promoted.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Everybody's doing it.

[Deontay Kyle]

Everybody's doing it. I'm just not doing it. Right, obviously. And then it becomes that thing. So then it like, it has a feedback loop of like insecurity. It just like creates like a.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And sometimes you win. So you get that intermittent reward reinforcement.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yes.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

And we're, and we're also being trained to be addicted by the intermittent reward system that's given to us by these algorithms on social media. So not. And a part of that intermittent reward system is advertisements for gambling. So not only we want like a dopamine slot machine, but VR phones, but like it's given us like ways to export that on other things.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

You explained it well. As a cartel, it's like an all encompassing assault from every angle, every level, at scale, big scope, back, zoom in. It's happening in every imaginable.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, the macro and the micro. It's a cartel. It's a cartel of marketing advertisement for like maximum profits and like human like degenerate behavior. Just completely degenerate. Void of growth, void of a growth mindset and void of recovery.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah. So we always like to be solution oriented when we're talking about some of these challenges. I think that you all have articulated them very well. It actually goes back to one of the earliest points we made on this episode about consistent exercise. When you think about your dopamine reward system becoming thrown off by, by intermittent rewards, one of the best ways to kind of recenter yourself and you know, people talk about like a digital cleanse and a technology cleanse and things like that. One of the best ways to recenter your taste for dopamine in a more way, in a way that's more consistent with good mental health is consistent work workouts and exercise, competitive sports, things like that.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah. Yes. I, the, the. How important is it for people to like disengage from social media when that may be the only time that they socialize and we're like hardwired to socialize because that's another thing that is hacked. Yeah, it's hacked our abilities.

[Justin Schaefer]

Remember that study that we talked about?

[Deontay Kyle]

It's like a social simulation almost.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

There was this study that came out, it was a meta analysis. So they kind of looked at a series of dozens or maybe even a hundred studies on social media in abstinence or like refraining from social media. And I think that intuitively you would think if you unplug from this, you'll feel better, you'll be better off. But what they found was that no period of abstinence from social media over the long term impacted how people reported their overall well being. So even people that were staying, getting off and staying off for a while, they weren't ultimate. Like maybe it at first, maybe it did feel better. Right at first, maybe it felt worse if you're addicted to it. But ultimately they were reporting and it's like how, you know, you could choose how much you weigh into that. Somebody reports that they're feeling better or worse, maybe it's not indicative if it's better or worse for you. Right. But you know, that was the metric that they used and they found that staying away from social media didn't really help that much. And we took, we've had conversations about why it is and it's like maybe getting at this point getting off of social media may actually kind of be like a net harm, if that is what you're saying. If that is out here social socializing and like that is how you're communicating with other people and you don't have like a lot of friends and maybe a lot of your friend people who potentially would be your friends are also hella online. And so it's like you not, maybe you don't have that, like in person community. I don't know.

[Justin Schaefer]

I mean, I think that that's, I mean, you make a good point. The other thing I wanted to say is when we talk about these meta analyses and how there's always kind of nuances in each individual study that, you know, may account for biases. But the purpose of a meta analysis is to try to analyze a bunch of studies and kind of like average out their biases, you know, So I think that's interesting. To your other point about kind of like, I guess it's like, where do you find a happy medium then? You know, like, okay, maybe entirely fasting from social media means fasting from your social interaction, which doesn't seem like the healthiest.

[Deontay Kyle]

That means you gotta up your social interaction outside of it. Yeah, that means. And I tell people all the time, like, I didn't mean to cut you. No, no, no. Visiting the same places, like repeatedly. Like me and you, we both like coffee. So it's like, like I go to the same coffee shop all the time. And even those small interactions, it's like, it's like, hey, Kyle, what's up man?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Get to know the people.

[Deontay Kyle]

That just is like, that feels good. And it's like, it also is a thing that I like to do before I have a lot of tasks to do for the day because I feel like I'm gonna be so task oriented that I'm not gonna really socialize like that. So it's like, oh, let me go to swim. Swim at a coffee shop. And it's like, I know what I get when I go there. I get the same every time. But it's like sometimes like, hey man, we just got this. You want to try something new today? It's like, okay, that feels good. That's a great social interaction. It's like, yeah, you're, you're kind of like, put you putting me on in a sense.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

Because a lot of times when you commute, and especially like city like Atlanta or la, these big commuter cities, you spend a lot of time in the car by yourself. So it's like, you know what I mean? If the fasting is going into like complete isolation, I can see how that could be like, like harmful. Because imagine the same thing happens in prison. If I take you on general popularization and put you in isolated things, these have like adverse effects on you.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Go crazy. You'll start seeing things and hearing things and you may never be the same in that part.

[Justin Schaefer]

You know, that's what I've appreciated. Like I've Lived in big cities most of my life. You know, Chicago, New York, L.A. now being here in Tulsa, having that communal experience, like a lot of those interactions feel a little bit more wholesome on a daily basis with people. You know, this has been debunked, but we talk about this. The Blue Zones documentary, the Blues. Blue Zones are places in the world. There was a documentary on Netflix about this. Places in the world where there's a high concentration of people that live on over 100. But it was debunked because I guess not everybody was explicitly over 100 years old.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

They like, didn't have birth certificate. There was like, they couldn't really prove documentation.

[Justin Schaefer]

But there was this guy who had kind of done some, I'd say, like social research on these different groups of people that seem to have a high concentration of people that live in the old age.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Right.

[Justin Schaefer]

And so what are the attributes of those communities and why do they last longer? And one of the most thought provoking ones to me was community. Like a lot of times, especially as men, Right. As we get older, we become. We don't have as many social interactions. We become a lot more isolated. And what his kind of social research had suggested is that you could take up to 15 years off of your life by, in older ages not having a community.

[Deontay Kyle]

Absolutely.

[Justin Schaefer]

And places like Italy, the, the younger family members would live with their older family members and still rely on them and give them purpose and meaning because they would seek them for advice and counsel. In Japan, the communities they for, to save money, they live in these communal houses. And so you kind of built this bond with people. That part of it is pragmatically saving money, but a huge part of it is your brain is being exercised by these social interactions that we don't think of as important ways to keep ourselves.

[Deontay Kyle]

Because you're managing a lot of different personalities too. So, like I, you know, if we all were to live in this house together, we will all interact with each other differently.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

Because it's like we're gonna learn. We're gonna learn more about each other. So I know like, ah, man, I know like this dude don't like being bothered before 7. I don't do like, this is just something, this is, is information I'm going to compute as I'm waking up. Like, let me not bother him. But I know I can go talk to Justin and it's the same thing. And y' all are going to learn me and it's all going to be like, it's such an active living space. It's not quiet and isolated.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Exactly, exactly. And so when you say if you scale back your virtual or your digital social interactions, it's important to scale up the other social interactions. But that is not necessarily a, A, a skill that people that had been chronically online have. And it requires one. Right? Because if you go and try to be social and you don't have social skills, you're gonna feel like shit.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

People not gonna want to be around you. You're gonna have a bad experience. Right. And it's gonna like, reinforce the problem. And so it's like, you know, people don't have good social skills. People's social skills are getting worse the more do you spend time online.

[Deontay Kyle]

Okay, but us three being like extremely social people and seeing success and being social. Social. Understand also that there's a lot of embarrassing moments that we've had in our lives socially where we leave interactions like, can you drop.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Can you drop one for the audience? I think it would be helpful for

[Deontay Kyle]

everybody to hear, you know, no, but you drop your hair embarrassing. You know what I'm saying?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

That was a claim you made, bro, to be relatable. I just thought you would like something. Actually, I thought you was like, like the relatable guy.

[Deontay Kyle]

No, something came to my mind, but it's like, bro, I don't want to share. No, no. But yeah, bro, as soon as you said share it, it went to one specific moment. I was like, that was embarrassing as. But yeah, but it's like, I think that that's the thing. It's like, I feel like that's also

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

important to hear though, cuz you're like a very charismatic guy. No, bro, cuz we've been out and about in the city and like everywhere we go, people like, oh, like, Deontay will love your man.

[Deontay Kyle]

And it's like what it was. It was in seventh grade, okay? And I was in seventh grade and like, I was obsessed with this girl. Like, like she liked me too, but like, I could just feel myself being like overly obsessed with her. And we was hugging in the hallway one day and I just like humped her a little bit. And she was like, what? She was like, what the fuck was that? And I was like, I don't know. I just couldn't control it. And then she was like, I don't think I want to do this anymore. I was like, fuck. And then it was like my friends was around and shit too. I thought I was being like, fresh and cool. She was not feeling that.

[Justin Schaefer]

He didn't like it.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah. And it's like, before we was hitting it off so well, I was, like, so excited. Like, man, my. Look. Check me out.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

And I'm the cool guy. A pretty girlfriend and helped her a little bit. And she was like, yeah, that was crazy.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah. I mean, that was crazy. And I was gonna. No matter what you shared, I was gonna be like, yo, so you know what. You know what happens to the best of us?

[Deontay Kyle]

I don't know, a. I don't know

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

if I. I don't know if I can top that.

[Deontay Kyle]

No, my. Nah, listen, my. The T has been on full display for quite some time.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I believe that. I believe that.

[Deontay Kyle]

Like, a. But. Yeah, And I was like, that's the immediate thing. It's like, I felt, like, the most embarrassing thing in the world as I got older. I was like, that was just stupid. Yeah. But it's, like, not a big deal. Like, I never did the shit again. But you have to go through, like, extremely embarrassing situations. Like, I mean, your dreams will simulate embarrassment. Like, you ever had a dream that you was, like, outside with just draws on.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

You know what I'm saying? It's like, dreams simulate an embarrassment, so it's almost like priming you for social interaction in a way that's really interesting.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Like, dream theory and, like, why we have dreams. I think that that's a fascinating thing.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Justin Schaefer]

I'll share an embarrassing moment just to make Dakota feel pressure. Thank you. So. Yeah, I remember when I was in second grade, there was these. It was this music class, and y' all know how they have the little. Like, almost like the choir, like, the little st. What is it called? The risers or whatever? The little. So they have this. Yeah, yeah. So. So we were all sitting on these things, and they kind of have, like, a rough texture, and I remember the texture of them real specific because I farted on the riser, and it made this really. It was like a. Like, it was, like, extremely. It resonated off the acoustics. The acoustics was crazy and to the point where it was dead silent. I farted loud and hard, and everybody looked at me and laughed at me for, like, windows shattered for, like, 30 seconds straight after. It's like. It was like one of those movie scenes, bro. You looking around.

[Deontay Kyle]

Everyone's like, ah. Because the crazy thing is, like, after the fight was done, there was still an echo.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

That's crazy. Your time.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Well, both of y' all went into, like, childhood when you were, like, a few years old or whatever.

[Deontay Kyle]

Don't try to put Down. Because with your. To your point, the reason I bring up childhood is because they haven't interacted socially. Right.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And they're socially.

[Deontay Kyle]

So they haven't. Yeah. So they're going to be social children and it's. Okay, go ahead.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, hearing both of y' all stories, I'm like, damn, these was losers. I never had no experience like that. I've been lit since a young man and been charismatic than a. I will say this. This. It's a little bit embarrassing.

[Deontay Kyle]

You're a performative male. You've been performative your entire life. I never really had a real experience since I could read words on page scientists. So you always been looking at other people as hypothesis.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Inside, I felt like something's not right. This society is not equal and it's not fair to women specifically. And so since I was a young ass, bro. And I was like, bro, there's nothing that I'm. You know what I mean? Since a young man, bro.

[Deontay Kyle]

In the bag, bro. Come on, son.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Nah, bro. I've been embarrassed before in my life as well. Okay? So I had. I had the. All right, so I hate chocolate. Yeah. And everybody knows that I hate chocolate. Everybody has always known that. And I had this girlfriend in third grade. And, you know, we. We was doing like third grade things. I think we would, like, call on the phone at night when, like, our parents was asleep or whatever. And she got me this big ass Hershey's chocolate. Hershey's Kiss for Valentine's Day. The big ass one. And I'm smaller at the time.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I wasn't always the, you know.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, bro.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I was always this jack loaded, you know what I'm saying? Like, ripping it and so. And I ate it. And I ate the whole thing, bro. And it took me, like, me like three or four weeks. And I remember it was very close to the time I got done. I thought it was like an active. I thought that's what love was, that

[Justin Schaefer]

you ate something that you hated for

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

the whole fucking thing, bruh. I thought that's what love was.

[Justin Schaefer]

How old were you?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I was in third grade.

[Deontay Kyle]

I used a young ass simp. Go ahead. Like you born simp. Yeah. I'm gonna do anything to grade. Simp is crazy. First grade simp. Go ahead. The same year you started standardized test, you were simping.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

It was right around the time that I finished the last few bites and I came into school and as if she knew, as if she felt that I had finished it, she had her friend tell my friend that she was breaking up with me.

[Justin Schaefer]

Damn.

[Deontay Kyle]

Damn. But you ate the chocolate for no reason. Calculated hold up, bro.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

It was during class, bro.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

So I'm sitting there, like, listening to the teacher and. And then the worst heartbreak of my life. Yeah, right, bro, still gut, still bubbling from the Hershey's Kiss.

[Deontay Kyle]

The sacrifice you made for her stale ass.

[Justin Schaefer]

Her villain origin story. How did you turn around, though?

[Deontay Kyle]

I mean, how did you not become red pill?

[Justin Schaefer]

You never made any mistakes after that?

[Deontay Kyle]

Ah, bro, it's.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

At the end of the day, bro, women have it harder.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah. I mean, bro, have an order, bro. Even though you're being a performative male, it is objectively.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

They do. It is objectively true.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And I. I do believe that. Honestly.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, for sure. I do too.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

And so, yeah, even at a young age, I was like, you know what? This is my cross the burden. Right.

[Deontay Kyle]

Hey, here's the thing that we can all agree on. The amount of chocolate that you put in that. In your body also put that dog in you.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Oh, yeah, because it was something to that, bro. It was like, you know what?

[Deontay Kyle]

This is where the dog was born.

[Justin Schaefer]

There's something psychotic a little bit about.

[Deontay Kyle]

It's actually. It's actually low key crazy that you ate the whole thing.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

It was the whole.

[Deontay Kyle]

It's like. It's like something un.

[Justin Schaefer]

Unhealthy almost. Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

But that's not the way that you sacrifice yourself for her love.

[Justin Schaefer]

That's good.

[Deontay Kyle]

Good. And to. To do something you hate, they compromise at the highest level just to get left.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I put it like this. I eat as many Hershey's chocolates as it takes to break the patriarchy.

[Deontay Kyle]

And then on that note, we're gonna go ahead and wrap this podcast up because this nigga's lying. Lying, bro.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

The body of work is there.

[Deontay Kyle]

No, you did. No, you've been sacrificing for the patriarchy.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

The resume. The resume. But nah, man. I think that for me personally, that was a very embarrassing thing.

[Deontay Kyle]

No, that's broken up with it. That's.

[Justin Schaefer]

I.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

What? Because now there's. There's also like a chain.

[Deontay Kyle]

You actually could have been just a person after that and everybody would agree, but you've turned around.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I do feel like a lot of dudes do. Do this thing where it's like, I've been. I got. I got done wrong in the past,

[Deontay Kyle]

and it's like, oh, you know how many that's online holding on to their third grade breakup right now? Or even sixth grade or even great.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

It doesn't even have to Be that hyperbolistic, bro. Everybody get their heart, gets their heart broken.

[Deontay Kyle]

I got my girlfriend a gift on. On Valentine's Day. Yeah, Another nigga. He brought my girl something. Trying to impress her.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Where'd you get her?

[Deontay Kyle]

Nothing.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

How did that day end?

[Deontay Kyle]

She was like, why didn't you get me anything? And I was like, I'm fucking broke, bitch. Like, my mom ain't. My mom don't even know we date. You know what I'm saying? Like, we date at school. We not like in real life. So, like, I'm glad he got you something.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Dating young is weird? Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah, it's weird. I just, like, I'm not romantic. I'm in 10th grade. Obviously, this nigga had, like, a great family dynamic, and he understood. And this was, like, a very chivalrous moment for him where he was, like, professing his feelings for her even though he knew she was in a relationship. It did really make me look bad. We did not break up after that, and he felt really weird about it. He apologized to me, and then I was like, I think I want y' all to be together. Like, low key. I don't think I want anything to do with this. And they dated for a week. And then, yeah, me and her, we was done. I seen her again in, like, college age, and I was like, man, you remember you cheated on me on Valentine's Day? I was like, just like, on an inside joke type shit. She's like, you shouldn't remember that. I was like, all right, bitch. I'm not trying to get back with Julia. It's like, you know, like, these are, like, small.

[Justin Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

We're gonna be embarrassed a lot along the way.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

To tie off the bow on that. The embarrassment conversation, that's, like, a part of it, right?

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah. Building those skills. I didn't become a fucking.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

No, I'm not saying bro.

[Deontay Kyle]

But we were talking Republican conservative.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

But we was talking about, like, building up the social skills. When you, like, if you were to

[Deontay Kyle]

absolutely build up your social skills and understand embarrassment is a part of it, I see why you do this. This is like. Do what with the ball the whole time?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Yeah.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yes. Like, I've been stemming this whole time.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I know you. I know you have.

[Deontay Kyle]

Bro takes care of it.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

I know.

[Justin Schaefer]

Microphone. You'd be hearing the little peeling of the skin.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

You don't hear that.

[Deontay Kyle]

I mean, this is where production comes into play.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

You don't hear it on.

[Deontay Kyle]

But the thing is this. It's like the embarrassment is just a part of the human condition. Like, if you can't deal with that. Then you're just gonna isolate into a bubble where it's gonna actually the things you avoid maximize. So the more you avoid embarrassment, the more embarrassed you'll feel on the inside.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Well, what I. One of the things that I think personally is, like, under. Like, my. What I define as, like, being a man. Like, what I think is important to do as a man is like, facing those fears, like, the social fears, the things that. That you feel embarrassed about. Like, that's a part. To me, that's a part of being. Right. That's like a part of being man is looking at that fear straight up and facing it.

[Deontay Kyle]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Stepping into it.

[Justin Schaefer]

Attack discomfort until you lack discomfort. That's what I say.

[Deontay Kyle]

Attack discomfort until you lack discomfort. Curiosity 30, ladies and gentlemen. All right, and. And on that note, I'll wrap that up by saying, stop being a ass now. We'll see you next time. Eat the chocolate bar. I'm Deontay Kyle. This is Dr. The Color Tyler.

[Justin Schaefer]

Justin Schaer.

[Deontay Kyle]

I was trying to say your name, man. You. I just kind of swallow some spit a little bit.

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Justin Shaer immediately started salivating when he looked at my dog.

[Deontay Kyle]

It's the cut man. Immediately started. Great hair. Hair man. Like, you know what I'm saying? I've been sitting here imagining, like, okay, if I ever cut my locks, I'm going for that look. And who's behind the camera? Suddenly seen but always heard. Big ice cub cat man. Eat the chocolate. It kill the patriarchy. Eat the chocolate. Eat the chocolate. Be a. And what was that you just said?

[Dr. Dakota Tyler]

Attack.

[Justin Schaefer]

Attack discomfort until you lack discomfort. Ass type.

[Deontay Kyle]

All right, that's a rap. That's a.

[Justin Schaefer]

I just want to rap.

[Deontay Kyle]

I just want to rap. Yeah. They say without the proper labor, faith

[Justin Schaefer]

don't stand a chance.

[Deontay Kyle]

I put my faith in faith and s. On fertile land I planted seeds out of indeed turning the trees before rest in peace tease get printed of me.