Episode 158 - Charlamagne tha God

Summary

Grits and Eggs Podcast

Episode 158: Featuring Charlamagne tha God

Date: June 30, 2026
Host: Deante’ Kyle (aka Big Cat)
Guests: Charlamagne tha God, Shug White

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Main Theme / Purpose

This episode features Charlamagne tha God in a candid, raw conversation about competition vs. collaboration in media, the value of honest communication, the responsibilities of Black media, business lessons learned transitioning from radio star to network founder (Black Effect), and the nuances of power, capitalism, and community responsibility—especially as it intersects with pop culture, current events, masculinity, and activism. Deante’ Kyle and co-hosts infuse humor and honesty, creating a space for deep dives into the realities of success, risk-taking, Black empowerment, digital culture, and what it means to “keep it real” as both a creator and a business leader.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Importance of Collaboration Over Competition

• Charlamagne emphasizes collaboration:

  “Everybody that's trying to figure it out is competing. Everybody that's got it figured out is collaborating.” (06:44)

• On giving props and praise:

  “You’re quick to hate on something... Stop needless criticism of your brother and sister because jealousy destroys from within.” (06:51)

• Hosts agree praise and supportive energy are often undermined by social norms that interpret it as 'glazing' or being extra.

2. Competition in Media and Personal Drive

• Early days at Breakfast Club:
  • Charlamagne reflects on being highly competitive, seeing Hot 97 as a “big dog” rival (08:27).
  • He attributes his intense ambition to not wanting to “go back home” after a string of setbacks in South Carolina.
• On coming from the South to NYC:

  “People try to act like where you from don’t exist... We might be slow, but what’s wrong with moving slow sometimes?” (10:18)

3. Transition from Individual Ambition to Community Empowerment

• Using the mic as power:
  • Charlamagne saw radio as a platform to empower others, shaped by books like the Autobiography of Malcolm X.

  “A person who controls the media, controls the minds of the masses... With great power comes great responsibility.” (12:04)

• Examples from early career:
  • Bringing on elected officials for community issues, even risking controversy
  • Standing up for the need for local voices on air (Mayor Nutter in Philly) (14:59)
• Responsibility of Black radio:

  “You always knew you had a responsibility... It was the people’s show.” (13:30)

4. Authenticity, Critique, and Risk-Taking

• Never shying from confrontation:

  “Honestly, I don’t even look at them as risk... That type of stuff gotta be in you, it’s not on you.” (16:56)

• Tension in expressing opinions:
  • Early radio advice was NOT to have an opinion—Charlamagne rejected that, arguing it stifled authenticity (18:18)
• Calling things out to people’s faces vs. just online:

  “People talk AT people, not TO them… Those that stand on their opinions in person, they’re the ones who cut through.” (19:23)

• Value of “call in” over a call out for community critique; not to alienate, but to include (20:38)

5. Black Masculinity & Emotional Vulnerability

• Difficulty for men to admit hurt:

  “Hardest thing for a man to say: yo, that hurt my feelings.” (22:19)

• Men’s emotional regulation is new for many:
  • Women often push for “the real issue,” men are more avoidant or defensive (23:22)
• Story about elevator altercation over embarrassment → how masking hurt can escalate situations, and ownership of emotion is powerful (25:05)

6. Legendary Moments, Public Confrontations, and Staying Genuine

• The “Can I get a drop” jumping story:
  • Charlamagne describes being ambushed outside stations, running to safety, and controlling the narrative by immediately telling listeners what happened (26:14, 27:41)
• “Make it difficult for people” advice from E-40 (27:17)
• On coordinated attacks vs. spontaneous beef, and why he refuses to let haters dictate his response (28:34, 29:30)
• On Dame Dash:
  • Discusses difference between being a boss and supporting working-class people; his own role models had jobs and were proud of it

  “Everybody’s not gonna be a CEO... I don’t knock working class people. That’s whack to me.” (32:14)

7. Business Lessons: From Working Class to CEO

• Value in starting from the bottom:

  “If you look down on working for someone else, you’re a terrible boss… You gotta know every level.” (35:04)

• Learning from Wendy Williams (His Top 3 Lessons):
  1. “Life is show prep”—everyday life is material for the show
  2. How NOT to treat people when you’re in charge (stories of volatile work environments)
  3. Always plan ahead—her transition to TV was long-term strategized (37:26, 41:10)
• Leadership is about team:
  • Entrusting the business operations of Black Effect to trusted partners (Dolly) so he can remain focused on creative side (44:26)

8. Building and Sustaining Black Effect Podcast Network

• On launching:
  • Leveraged established brands (Breakfast Club, 85 South Show, Drink Champs, All The Smoke, Earn Your Leisure) to build a powerful foundation (46:12, 47:02)
• On knowing when to cut projects:

  “Too long... Because we Black. We try to hold it down for people... But at some point, gotta take emotions out, make it business.” (49:00)

• Fair partnerships are key:

  “Everything should be fair and equitable... Once the parent company gets back what it puts up, split everything.” (52:22)

9. Navigating Transparency and Wealth in Black Spaces

• Calling out misinformation about deals, the danger of “fake numbers”:
  • Charlamagne gives real numbers (his first book deal: “$300,000 and a $50,000 bonus, before taxes”) (55:07)
• “Success is subjective”:
  • Encourages people to recognize smaller wins and not get lost comparing to outliers (57:14)
• Patience in the process:

  “You gotta be patient. You gotta recognize opportunity when there’s not a paycheck attached.” (59:37)

• The importance of ‘the journey’—free work, building reputation and skills long before money comes (59:43)

10. Capitalism, Black Power, and Selective Outrage

• On the Jay-Z/Target boycott uproar:

  “I saw more people upset about Jay Z’s exclusive Target deal... than [Elon Musk] making a trillion dollars.” (62:09)

• Nuances of activism, perception vs. reality:
  • Critique of how different artists (Jay Z vs. Kendrick, Cole) are labelled as “capitalist,” “activist,” or “everyman,” often based on branding rather than actions (66:18)
  • “Social media is a place of extremes—trying to have real conversations there is almost impossible.” (71:22)
• On where activism lives if social media is gone:
  • “Through the arts, through books, through podcasting… That’s how we used to get messaging out.” (72:20)

11. Digital Addiction, Techno-Feudalism, and the Future

• Upcoming need for “the great disconnect”:

  “The only thing that’s going to save us from techno-feudalism is the great disconnect... If these Silicon Valley execs won’t let their kids use social media, what’s that tell you?” (97:58)

• On platforms mining emotions, ‘energy harvesting,’ and why conflict’s so profitable online (73:34)

12. Podcasting’s Next Level: Netflix & Beyond

• On the move to Netflix (and pros/cons):
  • Short clips do better on YouTube; long form thrives on Netflix (87:18)
  • Biggest advantage: global real-time reach (88:26)
  • Vision is to develop major IP across film, TV, animation, etc., not just sit in front of mics (91:58)
• On risk-taking:
  • Syndicated radio audience is the core; Netflix is supplemental, so “if it doesn’t work, we go back to what we were doing.” (92:28)

13. Navigating Wealth, Power & Conspiracy

• Why Black success is seen as suspect:

  “Black people have been conditioned to think there’s no heaven on earth…when Jay Z makes it, it’s ‘how did you get that?’” (102:44)

• Pokes fun at past Illuminati paranoia:
  • “You couldn’t bring a triangle around me in 2012, nigga... Now 20 years later I’m starring in those videos.” (105:16)
• On remaining independent & supporting community:

  “Y’all independent as fuck… That ain't stop you from fucking with us.” (106:23)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On collaboration:

  “Everybody that’s got it figured out is collaborating.” – Charlamagne tha God (06:44)

• On responsibility in Black media:

  “I always felt like, when you’re on these microphones, there is power, and a responsibility that comes with these microphones. Because we are public servants.” – Charlamagne (13:09)

• On masculinity & vulnerability:

  “Hardest thing for a man to say: ‘yo, that hurt my feelings.’” – Charlamagne (22:19)

• On leadership:

  “If you look down on working for someone else, that's why when you do open your own business, you're a terrible boss.” – Charlamagne (35:04)

• On equity:

  “Everything should be fair and equitable. If you're the parent company, put something up, once you get back what you put up, let's split everything.” – Charlamagne (52:22)

• On social media & activism:

  “If the techno lords ain’t letting their kids on social media, that tells you everything you need to know.” – Charlamagne (98:24)

• On success:

  “Success is subjective… If you went from 30,000 a year to six figures on podcasting, that’s success to me.” – Charlamagne (57:16)

• On digital engagement:

  “The only thing that's going to save us from techno feudalism is the great disconnect.” – Charlamagne (97:58)

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Important Timestamps by Topic

• Collaboration vs Competition: 06:44 – 07:41
• Breakfast Club and rivalry with Hot 97: 08:27 – 09:27
• Power of Black radio & local news: 12:04 – 15:47
• Risk-taking & authenticity in media: 16:41 – 19:47
• On men expressing emotions: 22:19 – 25:36
• Charlamagne “jumped” story: 26:14 – 27:59
• Reactions to Dame Dash “CEO talk”: 30:34 – 32:14
• Business lessons from Wendy Williams: 37:06 – 41:10
• Building Black Effect Podcast Network: 46:12 – 47:02
• Fairness in business splits: 52:22 – 53:02
• Jay-Z/Target & selective outrage: 62:09 – 65:44
• Activism, capitalism and perception: 66:18 – 71:22
• Podcasting and Netflix, business diversification: 87:18 – 91:58
• Techno-feudalism & addiction: 97:58 – 98:30
• Illuminati/black success suspicion humor: 105:16 – 105:46

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Language/Tone

• Conversational, direct, unfiltered, and authentically Black—mixing serious cultural commentary with streetwise humor and honesty.
• Throughout, the mood alternates between reflective, comedic, energized, and at times sharply critical of mainstream and online narratives.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Charlamagne tha God puts a masterclass on transparency, personal growth, and the true hustle behind major Black media wins. The discussion ranges widely—from industry power moves, masculinity, and community responsibility to the addictive nature of digital culture, keeping it real (on-air and in business), and the systemic double standards Black success faces. The final message: stay authentic, collaborate, understand power, and build for the whole community—never just for self.

Transcript

[Big Cat]

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[Charlamagne Tha God]

Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services for MyPay and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Optional products and services may have fees or charges, stated annual percentage yield and cash back for Chime prime only. No minimum balance required. Checking account ranking Based on the J.D. power Survey published October 20, 2025. For on APY rates, MyPay Spot Me and travel perks go to Chime.com disclosures this episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser but Gemini and Chrome that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome Check responses set up required compatibility and availability various 18. Yeah woke up in the morning and to God be the glory thankful for another day to tell my story put my opinions in the universe and let them orbit I'm from the dirty south with a dirty mouth might need or bit miss things things on me like a Norbit had to refuse them cause my no rest fusion she gorgeous as I dab my sons up and kiss my daughter forehead tell them we gonna money to my pockets more bit remember living in apartments now we playing mortgage and what's homie name from the Knicks Jose Jose Jose came yeah his name

[Big Cat]

Alvarez Alvarado Alvarado yeah yeah shout out to him yeah he that was a

[Charlamagne Tha God]

good conversation win the championship go back to the hood from him he went

[Big Cat]

to the Puerto Rico the hood he had a parade Puerto Rican any song on Jon beat he did swing with Joel Embiid popped him yeah he did yeah yeah and be was trying to little man yeah I don't remember that during the playoffs n this kind of when he played for New Orleans Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, okay. Okay, okay, okay, okay.

[Shug White]

Yeah, it was a minute back. Yeah.

[Big Cat]

Okay. All right. All right.

[Shug White]

Yeah, he. He ain't taking no games, bro. He playing.

[Big Cat]

No, we rolling.

[Shug White]

Yeah. Okay.

[Big Cat]

All right. We got the. We got the main in here, man. Charlotte McGee.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Hey. Charlotte McGay. Charlotte McGay. Get it right. Charlotte McGay. What's up, man? How y' all feel, man?

[Big Cat]

Man, we good, man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm happy to be here, man.

[Big Cat]

I'm happy to have you pulling up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I like. I like being on podcast. I actually listen to.

[Shug White]

Yeah,

[Big Cat]

for sure. I. I would like. You ever get invites to places, and it's like, you may know the person or the host, but you ain't never listen to their. And then it's like, yeah, I don't.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't really like to go to those. I like. I like going to podcasts I actually listen to because that means that I'm. I'm. I'm familiar with. With the energy, and if I listen to it on a regular basis, then that means I enjoy it. So why wouldn't you want to be a part of something that you enjoy?

[Big Cat]

Hey, speaking of that, too, man, you know, we just want to, you know, thank you for real, because you've been shouting our praises for quite some time. Even before the Breakfast Club, you were showing us love on your, you know, like, on brilliant idiots and just constantly bigging us up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Y' all dope. That's easy to do when something is dope. Like, that's what I mean. Like, if I actually enjoy a product and I'm listening to it, you know, why wouldn't I put my listeners on, too? Yeah, because, like, people tune into the Breakfast Club because they want to hear us, but they also want to hear what we on. So if I'm listening to something that's dope, something that I feel like adds some value to, you know, the space. Yeah, check this out. Like, that's easy. Like, I don't know why people make that so difficult. Like, that's a tough thing for people to do.

[Big Cat]

I think it's. I think it's. People don't put a value on collaboration or just praise, period. You know, we kind of like, even, you know, down to, like, just the idea of giving somebody a compliment being, like, glazing or whatever. Like, that comes with, like, a lot of negative connotation where people try to steer away from it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I feel like everybody that's trying to figure it out is competing. Everybody that's got it figured out is collaborating.

[Big Cat]

Real shit.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You Know what I mean? I truly, genuinely believe that. And even what you said about, you know, being able to celebrate somebody or give somebody props, and that's considered glazing, that to me, is ridiculous. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's like, if you like something and you like what somebody is doing, yo big it up. Because it's quick. You're quick to hate on something, right? Or quick to give negative criticism or something. I remember when I. When I first started studying 5% teachings, they always said, stop needless criticism of your brother and sister because jealousy destroys from within. You know what I mean? Like, don't get me wrong, criticism is fine, right? Constructive criticism, or even if you wanted to feel like you hold somebody accountable, but just needless criticism is, like, right?

[Big Cat]

And then. Well, and also, like, you know, what's. What's the intent behind it? If it's malice, then, you know what I mean? If your intent is to tear something down or to steer people away from it. You know what I mean?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Exactly.

[Big Cat]

Speaking of that, man, what's today's mathematics, man?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Today's mathematics is knowledge God born build, right? Yeah. Knowledge God born build.

[Big Cat]

That's our resident 5% or something.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I had to think of the date for. I'm like, they date first of all. Knowledge God born built.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, man. You know, even when I started out just making, like, content and doing things on TikTok, for me, it was never like a competing thing. Right. I think I had found some stability in a career, so I was kind of comfortable, like, oh, I could drive these trucks like this, so I don't put my content out. Ain't really about comparing myself to other people. But I could see that, like, in your position, especially, like, being on a syndicated show, is there an air of competition there amongst, like, other radio stations and things like that?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Um, initially, when I first got to Breakfast Club, it definitely was right, because, you know, the big dog in town was Hot 97.

[Shug White]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what I mean? So that's your direct competitor, right? So you feel like, all right, if I chip away from them or, you know, knock them down a peg, it'll build us up? That's not really the case, really. Honestly. Like, the reality is, you know, both stations can coexist, right? But, you know, at the time, I was out for blood, man. It was a blood sport. Like, you know, I was trying not to go back home. Corner of South Carolina. You know what I mean? If you just literally came off your mother's couch and you. 31, 32 years old and your daughter is like one or two. It's like, yo, when I get back in position in New York City and I get the opportunity to, you know, get back on that radio again, it's just like, yo, anybody can get it. So, like, everything was content, like, you know, and you.

[Shug White]

You.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You want to do things to try to, you know, I guess. I guess make waves, so to speak.

[Big Cat]

And you separate yourself from the pack, too.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. And for me. For me, I guess, with that being like, that was direct competition. It was almost like, you know what, man? I want that. I wanted that smoke. I didn't. I didn't have to have it like you. I could have came up here and just did what I wanted to do, right on radio. But no, for whatever reason I wanted that, I want. I picked that fight, you know, for whatever reason.

[Shug White]

That's the spirit of New York in you. You know what I'm saying?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm from South Carolina, but you had

[Shug White]

to come up here with that aggression.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, and that is a good point, Cat, because there's a lot of. It felt like there was a lot of bullying going on from that side. You know what I mean? So it's just like you want to punch the bully in the mouth. You want to get on the yard and show everybody you not afraid of the big bad bully at all. Let's set the tone immediately.

[Big Cat]

Real talk, though, you know, and then being from a small town, especially a small town in the south, niggas try to act like where you from don't even exist.

[Shug White]

You're right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Like, we just slow. Like, we don't know what's going on. But in reality, we might be slow, but what's wrong with moving slow sometimes? Like, you know, you ever watch ball players on the court, and they'd be like, yo, like, great ball players say the game moves slow for them because they're able just to see everything that's going on on the court. That's how I live my life. Coming from a small town, most going to South Carolina, that's how I felt. Like, when you move up to New York, it's like everybody moving fast, but you kind of just watching everything move in slow motion because you moving slow. You're not. You're not trying to match the energy of the city. It's just like, well, I don't wanna move fast. I wanna move directly, Right?

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Cause it's erratic.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

You know. You know. You know, countries like haste make waste. Like, I live by that. I ain't no hasty person. Like Almost like if you trying to put something together a little too quick, I'm gonna feel like, what you want?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What's going on?

[Big Cat]

Yeah, what's the angle?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm like that right now. Like, listen, I'm like that with people on my team. Like if your financial advisor calls you and they like, yo, we need to do such and such right now. You need to move some money over here right now. I'm like, what's the rush, man? You know what I mean? Wait a minute. I trust you, but let's take a beat on this, sit down, put together a presentation, show me exactly what it is I'm doing. I don't feel like you have to. Like I said, I don't wanna move quickly, I wanna move correctly at all times.

[Big Cat]

I think about what you were saying before, how you came up here with that attitude. And I think when we, you know, when you don't feel like you. Where you supposed to be or where you want to be in like especially 30. Yeah, 31, 32. It's like if you get an opportunity, it's like I'm trying to squeeze the life out this opportunity. But how did you. How were you able to make that transition from like using your talent to empower yourself to like using it to empower others?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's a great question. You know, I always felt like, especially, you know, being on the radio, that particular skill set was to empower others. But, you know, that's cause I grew up, you know. The first book my dad ever gave me to read was the Autobiography of Malcolm X. Which led me to read like Message of the Black man by Elijah Muhammad, then From Niggas to Gods by Akil. But Malcolm X said, a person who controls the media, controls the minds of the masses, right? And I'm a marvel head, right. I grew up reading mad comic books. Uncle Ben said with great power comes great responsibility. So I always kind of felt that on the microphone. Now, do you stick to that all the time? No. You know, we still niggas at the end of the day, right? Like niggas ain't God. That's why the book is called From Niggas to God.

[Shug White]

Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But you know, for the most part, I always understood that power. I always understood that responsibility. You can go back to when I first started doing radio on South Carolina. I would have local elected officials on or like 2005, you know, I got the opportunity to go sit down with the honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan and, you know, interview him when it was the 10 year anniversary of The Million Man March. Right. So I got the opportunity to interview him. Then I played it over the air in South Carolina. Got in. Got in trouble for that, really.

[Shug White]

Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So it's just like, I've always understood that when you are on these microphones, there is a power and a responsibility that comes with these microphones. Because we are public servants. I used to write for OZONE magazine. I don't even know y'. All. Remember Y' all remember Ozone? Yeah. I used to write for OZONE back in the day. And there was a piece I wrote called, you know, what Would Jesus Do? I don't even know why. I can't remember why I wrote that. But I will say, if Jesus was alive, I really feel like he'd be a radio personality or a dj. Because, you know, our duty is to serve the needs of the public. I don't care if you was listening to Tom Joyner back in the day, Doug Banks, Petey Green, who's one of my inspirations. When you look at, like, the impact that black radio had on the black community, you always knew you had a responsibility, you know, when you were in that radio station. So I always felt like, you know, it was never my show. It was the community show. It was the people's show. Like, I remember in Philadelphia getting in trouble one time. Cause the former mayor, Mayor Nutter, when I was doing morning radio in Philly, Mayor Nutter came on the show one morning because the newspaper, the Philadelphia newspaper said doomsday. And they was cutting funding for libraries, rec centers, and the police, Right? So that means they was going to fire a bunch of police officers, close libraries, close rec centers, and. Come on, man. In a city like Philadelphia, at that time, it was like, 09. Like, that would have been like, what are you doing? Like, what is the community even going to have? Like, what are these streets going to look like? And so Mayor Nutter came on the show just to let everybody know it's cool, everything's fine. You know, we're getting the funding. Right. So that was a relief to the community. But that day, the radio consultant was in town, and he was a white dude from Atlanta, right? Well, he lived in it. I don't know he's from. But he was in Atlanta. I think he was from Atlanta. Atlanta, Texas.

[Big Cat]

I don't remember.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But he goes, you know, nobody really wants to hear the mayor on the radio. They'd rather hear Beyonce. Rather have Beyonce on the radio. Yeah, sure. If you can get a Beyonce interview, great. But you don't live here in Philadelphia, so you don't understand what him being on the radio this morning meant to this community. You don't understand him saying what he said and at 7 o' clock in the morning on this station, after this is in the newspaper right now, did for the city. So it was big, you know, locally on the news and also it was just big amongst the community. But he just didn't understand that, nor did he care. Nor did he care. So just to make a long story, long answer, longer. Yes, I always understood the responsibility that I had on these microphones.

[Big Cat]

There's like a real power in like localized radio, localized information, even if it is like blasted across the airways or regional, that like the weatherman in Birmingham mean a lot to the residents of Hell. Yeah, that means shit to me. I live in Atlanta, I don't care. But my weatherman means something to me. And it's like that importance of like localized radio that speak to the people that actually are gonna be impacted by things. That shit matter more than anything. I'm curious as to how you were able to like mitigate taking those risks though, because you ain't never really shied away from being confrontational. And that could come, you know, you don't know 2020 is when you gonna launch Black Effect in 2010 at the breakfast Club. But it's like, yeah, but I still stand in this paint with Fredro Starr, nigga, like, what we gonna do?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, yeah.

[Big Cat]

You know what I mean? Or like, I'll tell you your freestyle, like, yeah, nah sweat, that ain't it, man. You know what I'm saying?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

And it's like, but how do you. How do you. Or, or even with the putting Farrakhan on the radio, how do you mitigate those risks?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Honestly, I don't even look at them as risk. Like, you know, that type of stuff got to be in you. It's not on you. Like, I'm not thinking about anything other than, you know, either. A, I feel like this is something that can really, really benefit people. Or B, I, I can't sit here and let you just get that off. That shit was whack. Like, you know, I mean, I gotta be able to tell you I'm not feeling your music. And plus I just feel like that's, that makes for real, honest conversation. I remember my guy, man. My man named George Cook. George Cook is a great, you know, mentor to me to this day. He's actually one of the operations manager at K104 in Dallas. And I remember him saying to me, no, was it George? He was George. This was back in the day, though he's probably got a different philosophy now, but I remember him. No, it wasn't George. I'm lying. It was another program director, a guy named Terry Bass from Z93. George actually let me. Let me do. He let me cook. But the program director, Terry Bass, said, you're not supposed to have an opinion about things. And I never understood that because I didn't go to school for radio. I didn't go to school at all. Like, you know what I mean? I was in Monks Corner, South Carolina, doing a bunch of things I ain't had no business doing. Then when I got the internship at radio, at the radio station, I used to literally come from Monks Corner, still fresh off the block, sometimes drunk, sometimes high, whatever it is, and would just get on the radio and would just talk to people. That's what I knew how to do. I knew how to have a conversation. And I knew, like, you know, if there was a song that played that I didn't like, I'm like, yo, that's such and such. That shit is.

[Big Cat]

I didn't.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's whack. I don't. I don't like, you know, I was just regular having a conversation, opening up the microphones, just talking to people. And I remember Terry Bass saying, you're not supposed to have an opinion. Nobody's listening to the radio station, you know, for your opinion. And then that made me realize, like, oh, that's why people don't be saying the obvious thing, are asking the obvious question. You know what I mean? Somebody could be sitting in front of you with a fucking unicorn, you know, unicorn horn sticking out their forehead. And I'm supposed to act like that don't exist.

[Shug White]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm supposed to act like that. I'm not like, yo, what's up with your unicorn horn?

[Big Cat]

What is that?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What is that? You got that? Like, I'm not supposed to ask. But literally, I remember Terry Bass telling me, you were not supposed to have an opinion. And I just remember thinking to myself, oh, this is why you don't hear them type of conversations on the radio or on television for that matter. And people that did have those conversations, those are the ones that cut through.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, yeah. That is. It actually creates an opportunity when that's like, the accepted way of doing it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Absolutely.

[Big Cat]

Because for you, it's like, well, shit, perfect. Now I'm gonna have even more of an opinion.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I mean, nowadays, everybody does it now, Right? The only thing I don't respect, though, is that people don't ever have that opinion with folks while they're in their face having the conversation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Nowadays, it's a lot of people talking at people, not to them.

[Big Cat]

You know what I mean?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I feel like the ones that actually get the opportunity to talk to people and have that same energy, they're the ones that cut through. Like, you've seen that a bunch of times. You've seen personalities who got so much to say when it's just them on their screen or something. But then when they get the opportunity, you know, to sit down and talk to the person, you don't hear none of that. Say, yeah, what happened? You know what I'm saying?

[Big Cat]

Can't relate.

[Shug White]

So, yeah, yeah, go see how we feel.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. They try to approach us in the street like, yo, why use. I was like, cuz, that's how I felt.

[Shug White]

That's how we felt about it.

[Big Cat]

And I mean it now, too.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, I'm.

[Big Cat]

You hear? I still feel the same way.

[Shug White]

Don't stand on it if you want to have.

[Big Cat]

Because it's like more, you know, like this thing, bro. Objectively, whatever my critique or judgment is on your art or your take or whatever you do, it's not a take on you personally.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Big Cat]

You put this out.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Exactly.

[Big Cat]

Whenever you put something out, it's open to criticism, especially nowadays. So if. And you know, when I come to criticizing the community as a whole or like, doing this, I do try to take the approach of a call in instead of a call out. Cause I don't want people to feel excluded. And that's the easiest way for you to kind of like dilute your messaging, where it's like you're alien. Alienating people. Well, you and those niggas essentially become your ops. But I think for you, like, the thing that was always interesting me about you is like, not necessarily, like, egging a on, but, like, not backing down.

[Shug White]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

Which also, niggas don't know what to do in those moments because they expect, like, you the radio guy, right? So it's like they expect you to kind of cower and you be like.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And to your point, though, it's better when it's in the street. And the radio station is one thing. You know what I mean? When somebody approach you in the street and they got like that same energy and they be like, yeah, remember that shit you said such and such. I'm like, yeah, I said that your shit was whack. I said that you had you used to be hot at one point, but now you not no more.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

De Escalates everything. Yeah. Because now we. Now it's like, all right, I tried the aggression. The aggression didn't work. Now, man, why you think I'm whack, man? Like, why?

[Shug White]

Now it's feeling.

[Big Cat]

Now it's feelings is involved.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Now, what was it about that song, man? What was it about that album that you didn't like, man? Now we can have a constructive conversation which we could have had from the beginning, you know, But I don't know what you thought was going to happen. You running up on me with the

[Big Cat]

rah rah, you know, that made me think of is like, when Will was like, to hell with him.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And he was like, why you don't want me, man? They want me, man.

[Big Cat]

Why he don't want me? Like, really what it is.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's really what it is. We don't talk about. Yo, we don't talk about men and how, you know, the hardest thing for us to do sometimes is just to be like, yo, that hurt my feelings. Yeah, that's the hardest thing for a man to say. Yo, that hurt my feelings.

[Shug White]

You don't wanna seem soft, though, like, you know, who care about your feelings.

[Big Cat]

Any friendship that I've ever ended has started with that conversation for me. And then if you have an inability. If you present an inability to address the emotional aspect of it, it's like, well, shit, I just don't wanna be your friend no more.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, I mean, how many men really know how to process their emotions? Like, emotional regulation is something that's kind of relatively new, at least. At least from my experience and just being able to express exactly what the issue is. You kind of learn that when you arguing with women. Right. Like, if you think about it your whole life, because women always be like, yo, what's the real issue? Or you might be arguing with your man, like, and, you know, whatever she on with you, like, that's not the real problem.

[Big Cat]

Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What I really do. Okay. You saw the text that I sent somebody. Yeah. You know, I mean, like. Like, what did I get to the root? Yeah. Yeah. You know?

[Big Cat]

Yeah. And I think also, too, just being avoidant, it's like, it's. It's easier to make it about what it ain't about, because it's like, then I can argue this because I don't feel that for real. But when I. If we get down to, like, what I'm really feeling, it's like, that's vulnerable and that we haven't been taught to be comfortable with that vulnerability or just having uncomfortable conversations, period. So a lot of times with men, we are always able to express anger, but not, like, sadness.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

You know what I'm saying? Like, we could be happy, but don't like too much joy. It's like, hey, hey, calm down.

[Shug White]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Even expressing anger is crazy, right? Because it's like, you're expressing anger, but what are you really mad about?

[Big Cat]

Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

If I'm going to express anger, I at least want you to know what I'm actually mad about. Like, and Charlamagne came in here. He told us that this water was trash and blah, blah, blah. I ain't had nothing to do with no water. Like, I got a whole other issue. Like, let's get to the root of. You know what the problem is?

[Shug White]

Also another thing is, like, who can you trust with the information, too?

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Shug White]

Who can you trust to be vulnerable? You know what I'm saying?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's very difficult. But you should be able to trust your friends, right? Like you said, the conversation you would have with your friends that are falling off, you should be able to tell your friend, like, man, that shit you said hurt my feelings, man.

[Shug White]

You should.

[Big Cat]

Straight up.

[Shug White]

No, you should.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Like, I didn't like when you was making them jokes in front of them girls. Okay,

[Shug White]

don't do that.

[Big Cat]

Don't do that.

[Shug White]

Don't do that again ever in your life.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That shit happened one time. It was so funny, man. One of my. My homeboys back in the day, he. We was on the elevator and he was keeping. My man was making jokes on him. Cause he had, like a cold saw or something.

[Shug White]

Oh, my.

[Big Cat]

Oh, my.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And when we got on the elevator, he was making the same jokes, but we laughed. My dude just hit him in the chest.

[Big Cat]

Boom.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Like, stole on him hard. And then later on, he's like, yo, why you did that, man? He was like, Cause, man, he had them girls laughing at me. You know what I'm saying?

[Big Cat]

Bingo.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, that's even. Because we can joke any. We can joke about that type of shit.

[Big Cat]

Embarrassing.

[Shug White]

Embarrassing.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes, that's right. That's right.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. And also, like, damn. Like, you done took me off the market, my nigga.

[Shug White]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Like, why you do that?

[Shug White]

They ain't even.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

People had the cold sore. You brought it up. Yeah.

[Shug White]

You know what I'm saying?

[Big Cat]

I'm around all these niggas without cold sore.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. But if the girl like you, she gonna like you regardless. You know what I mean?

[Shug White]

I don't know.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't know about that cold photo?

[Big Cat]

I don't know.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

She might be a nurse. She might get you an ice pack, you know, that's it.

[Big Cat]

You know, speaking of the. The ability to deal with like, outside of the radio, the in person shit too. It's like that shit come with risk and rewards too. So when nigga run up on you and ask you for the drop, they thought that was gonna be the thing that like, yeah, we'll shut this nigga up. Did that make you go harder after that?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. Cause I went. Ran right into the radio system. Like, literally. You got to remember, I'm. I'm going to work.

[Shug White]

You going to work? Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I ran right into. You got on time, six am I. I run right into the.

[Big Cat]

I don't care what say. That's smart. Evade. Evade this.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

We in New York.

[Shug White]

Can I get a drop?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What would jcole say? You know, how you gonna jump me if my feet work exactly straight up, you know what I'm saying? But the funny part is, like the day before they tried to line it up, they had me kind of trying to line it up all week, but I was kind of just paying attention, like, okay, that person don't normally be in front of the radio station, like, all right, I ain't never seen them individuals right there. And then the day before, I actually walked into the building and there was a guy in there with a camera. He was like, yo, man, I can get a drop. And so I gave him the drop. And then I'm in my mind, I literally was thinking about how. Oh, that's somebody trying to figure out how easy it is. And that's why E40 always say, remember E40 said to me one time, he said, don't make it easy for people. Always make it difficult.

[Shug White]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I mean, make a person think about it. You see what I'm saying? But they work for it. I mean, you get up at 5 o' clock in the morning to jump somebody, that's some commitment. Hey, man, that was. They work for.

[Shug White]

Hey, when you unemployed, man, any opportunity. When you unemployed, man, any opportunity, you get up in the morning, man, hey, we there, baby. I got something to do today.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But you know what's so funny?

[Big Cat]

You got a nigga's motivation.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

You know what I'm saying now? How they check channel that energy into

[Charlamagne Tha God]

a job, you know what I'm saying? But, you know, you see, but go. I went on the air and told everybody what happened before they even saw it. So when they saw it, they was like, damn, that's exactly what he said happened.

[Shug White]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Ain't no sauce I can put on it. Like, you know, hit me and I turned around and two pieces. Like, nah. He hit me and I got. I skedaddled.

[Big Cat]

I got him out of there. Hey, look, I've been jumped twice. The second one wasn't successful. Oh, you jumped. The second time niggas tried to jump me wasn't as successful as the first because I learned. Because niggas always say, yo, if anybody ever tried to jump, you just find one person.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No.

[Big Cat]

And focus on them. And I did that. And was hands.

[Shug White]

And it was on you. They was on you.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

Now he. He got some pressure, you know what I mean? But I got all of it.

[Shug White]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

And I was the second. So the second time was trying to line me up. I said, I got something for y'. All.

[Shug White]

Yeah. Being jumped is a crazy emotion. When you get jumped, this is like a crazy. Like, what's happening right now.

[Big Cat]

I feel like the walls. Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

By the way, random jumpings are different. Like, if you somewhere and you get into somebody and. Yeah, and he got some boys and y'. Jump, that's different. A synchronized jump. You know what I mean? A coordinated, planned attack. I'm like, what they gonna do if they actually catch me? Like, I don't know what they. They might want to pee on me.

[Big Cat]

Or like.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm serious. Hold me down and decorate me like a. I don't know what they got. Oh, my God. I'm not. But no, you. But you gotta think like that in that moment.

[Big Cat]

No, no.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Real shit, though.

[Big Cat]

Niggas do get creative when they got the leverage. Like, yeah, get butt naked.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You there with a camera. So you're trying to make. I'm not letting your production.

[Big Cat]

West coast production.

[Shug White]

Can I have you running the station? But Nick is. Now that's crazy. You see that?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But.

[Big Cat]

No, but listen. Like, why I gotta take my clothes off? Like, hey, hey, hey. You already jumped me, so ain't the violence enough?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Now you want to see something?

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Essentially, what you saying? Get your clothes. I want to see something.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What? That's what it feel like. Yeah. Nah, you can't let nobody get that off.

[Shug White]

No, that's. That's wicked.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, man, you were sick.

[Big Cat]

That is the abuse of power.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what I'm saying? But that's the whole. My whole point is, when somebody is planning to do something like that, don't let their plan go through.

[Big Cat]

All right, so peep game. Though you've had numerous and numerous of legendary moments on the breakfast Club. But the one guest that stick out to me, just because both times he's been there, it's always been. It's like, especially the last time was Dame Daddy.

[Shug White]

Oh, my God.

[Big Cat]

And like, I was looking at. I was like, damn, Dash. Like, what was like, 2010, 2015? He was like, y' all work for somebody else. They're like, years later, you got your own shit. Now you can't even come up here with that energy. I got the black effect shit. But how is. How is that. How is that transition to go from, like, does that. Does anything from that? Even if it does seem like bullshit in the moment, does anything from that, like, put shit in perspective for you?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No. Cause I was already on that.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what I'm saying? Like, my father growing up did construction, so he worked for a construction company. Then he had his own construction company at one point called McKelvey and Sons. My father had a fish market growing up called Max Seafood on Main street in Mont's Corner, South Carolina. So I used to always be in there. My father always had a little juke joint, you know what I mean, where you could go in there and play pool, get. Buy your fried fish. You had the example, so I always had that. Like, I come from, like I said, studying the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, you know, where he talked about, you know, unity and group operation and pooling your resources and, you know, coming together for collective economic power. So he wasn't saying nothing that my mind wasn't already on. I just don't understand insulting the working class. Like, we're all working class people. What's wrong with having a fucking job? You know what I mean? And how can you. How can you truly be a leader or a boss? You know, when you have employees and your employees looking at you like, that's how you feel about me? Yeah, I ain't.

[Big Cat]

And that's the part that people overlook. Cause you operating out your ego, and you're not thinking about who is impacting.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You understand what I'm saying? Yeah.

[Big Cat]

I don't want to work for you if that's how you think about employment.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And that's what the funny thing with a person like that, I don't never see his staff. I hear all the boss talk, but you don't never see, I got cookies. He got cookies. You see what I'm saying? Where's his staff?

[Shug White]

I ain't never seen nobody watch CEO in the street, son.

[Big Cat]

Never seen CEO in the street.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm just simply saying. So it's just like for me, it's like, it was a conversation that I didn't necessarily need, but also, man, it's a conversation that's just simply not for everybody. Everybody's not gonna be a CEO. Everybody's not gonna be, you know, the boss. Like, everybody's not gonna have their own company. Like, some people are going to go learn a trade and get a job. Some people are gonna learn a trade and decide to open up their own, you know, H Vac company. It just is what it is. Everybody's hustle is different. I just don't, I'm just, I don't. I'm not into knocking working class people, man. Yeah, that's whack to me.

[Shug White]

And we big on the trades over here too, man. Anybody getting a trade, that's our shoes, everything.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, we actually have. Matter of fact, I was just on the FaceTime last week with a dude that graduated in the trades. You know, he went to school to be an electrician. He was like, yeah, ever since y' all said that on your pod, that, like, gave me direction. And then somebody emailed me last week, too. He graduated with an automotive mechanic degree. You know what I'm saying? So, like, the encouragement, even just to go get a skill, regardless of what you do with it, because, you know, what people tend to overlook is that all of these prominent black towns that we covet were made up of the working class. Like, without the working class, without skilled laborers and without the few entrepreneurs, it's not possible. It's like an ecosystem. And I think, you know, I think the funniest thing about that is, like, when you get that opportunity to say something that's impactful, you use it to, to blight others. And then as time go on, we

[Charlamagne Tha God]

see you need a job.

[Big Cat]

You need a job, and maybe it's time, yeah, maybe it's time to go get a job.

[Shug White]

It's time to go work.

[Big Cat]

You know what I'm saying?

[Shug White]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

You know, you see problems. Like, maybe it's time all them got

[Charlamagne Tha God]

to get jobs, too.

[Shug White]

Y' all can just work in Queens.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, I know that. Go that way, go that way. I don't, Again, I don't, I don't understand why people, people tend to look down on working class individuals. Like you said, working class people make the world go around. Like, I don't, I've never had a problem getting a job. Like, I, I, we used to. Me and my boy Stuart used to wake up in the morning and go work at the temp service, bro.

[Big Cat]

Real talk.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Like, you know, you used to go to the temp service, wherever they sent you for the day, that's where you went, is what you was on. Like, I had. I've never had a problem working. Like, my sister used to be a manager at Taco Bell. I worked at Taco Bell. Got fired after a couple of weeks, but still, I didn't have a problem putting on that purple shirt and them dickies and going to work. Like, what's wrong with working? I never understood the mentality, especially nowadays where everybody's a CEO, everybody's a boss, everybody's elite. You ain't got no staff, who's working, who's working. You ain't paying no salary like that. I don't get it.

[Big Cat]

Well, and the reality of it is this, if you look down on working for someone else, that's why when you do open your own business, you're a terrible boss. And you're not a leader. Because somebody that has had to be an employee and work under other people learn leadership skills because they know what the position is at every level. If you go into an industry and you've never been employed in that industry, how you gonna know how to, like, maneuver 100%? You going in green as hell. Like, you have to come up under Wendy William, go to the Breakfast Club before you can start Black Effect. You can't just be like, yeah, I'mma start a podcast network like that. That don't work like that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And even, I mean, listen, even with that, like. And you learn something at every step of the way, right? I could working with somebody like Wendy. Wendy was a nationally syndicated radio personality, you know, radio legend, you know, hall of famer, right? But the most important thing I learned, I learned a lot of important things from that. I learned how to do, you know, real good show prep, right? Her telling me things like, you know, life is show prep. It's not just about, you know, back then, it was what you reading in the magazines or what you seeing on websites. It's like just living life. Going out to a store, shopping, interacting with, you know, whoever's in the store. Like, you might hear something that's funny or a story you might want to take back to the radio. Like, all of those were great, very important conversations. But you also learn, you know, how you don't want to be when you get in that position equally. You see what I'm saying? When it's your time to be that nationally syndicated radio personality that has this new talent around you or these new interns that's working with you, you learn how not to treat people. I'm not gonna tell you when you walk in the room, don't look me in the eyes. Look down when you walk in the room. You know what I'm saying? I'm not gonna yell and scream and throw things. And by the way, that's just. That was her generation. Their generation was different. That's just not how I'm. I'm brought up.

[Big Cat]

You know, if you had to, if you had to tell me, like, three things that you learned from the OG Wendy Williams just is, like, not only things that pertain to radio and media, because a lot of people are looking at this and might want to get into this. But what was your teachings, what was your early teachings that you've carried on throughout your career?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Definitely, number one, the show prep thing and how life is show prep. Like, life, like just going out there and living. Like, you hear comedians say that a lot. Like, I want to get back on stage, so I get to go out there and live some life, right? So, like, you really got to live life every day. Like, you know, y' all are personalities. Y' all live life every day. Like, y' all talk about your past experiences, your present experiences, where y' all are now. That is always, constantly relatable. People will always be able to grow with the grit snakes podcast bingo because of that. You know what I mean? Like, they're like, I remember when. And they was in the truck doing X, Y and Z. And, you know, now I've just watched the journey. I watch them grow, I'm watching them sell out shows. Like, that's taking people on the journey of that every step of the way. You can't ever lose. So it's like, number one, your life is constant show prep. Number two, Like I said, how not to treat people when you get in a position. You know what I mean? Cause sometimes, man, people be in these positions and they be wilding. And by the way, that's her era. They come from that, that Suge Knight Diddy yell, scream, throw things, you know, get the fuck out, blah, blah, like that, that, that type of shit, like

[Big Cat]

devils wear product type shit, man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I see. I remember one time, man, her husband came in there because somebody didn't bring him his weed on time.

[Big Cat]

What?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So the weed man came to the station. The intern had to go downstairs and get the weed. And you know, when he pulled, when he pulled up, the intern was supposed to go down there and bring the weed, but the intern was taking a little bit too long, and he wasn't taking Long at all. It's like we're on the 42nd floor, you know what I mean? So if you call, it's gonna take a while to get down. You know what I mean? But he got so mad that he came up there and fired all the interns. He didn't even work there. Like, he didn't have. He wasn't an employee. How could he come in there and fire all the interns? These are kids in there that's getting school credits and everything. You just told everybody, get the. The fuck out. You're fired. You got to go. Which was wild. Cause then, you know, he ended up getting banned from the building after that.

[Big Cat]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Necessary meth.

[Shug White]

You see what I'm saying?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

N. You firing niggas?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes. But that's the type of stuff I'm like. I'm not gonna. I used to say that back then. I'm not gonna be like that when I get in a position to lead.

[Big Cat]

That makes sense.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what I mean? When I get in a position to be the person that, you know, is so called in charge, I don't. I'm not gonna move like that. You know what I mean? Like, I'm gonna have a totally different approach to when I'm upset about something that's going on. And I guarantee you, it's not gonna be nothing over no weed with that.

[Shug White]

Does that make you, like, your composure, your cool, calm collective at all times, being with Wendy, does that. Did that help you navigate being on the radio and having people come in and with the ego and ego trip on you?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause, you know, it was different back then, though. Cause Wendy was. I was just like her attack dog. Like, she was. She already knew. That's another thing. Another thing I learned, you know, plan ahead. Because she knew she wanted to make the transition to television. Like, she knew it. Like, even before people knew she was getting a show or anything like that, she knew, I'm sick of this radio shit. I'm ready to take my talents to television. This was way before she. I promise you this. Way before she even got the opportunity to do daytime tv. I just remember her telling me that in one of our first conversations when I came up there. And she knew that she wanted to make the transition to television. But like I said, I was her attack dog. So it's like nobody even saw me coming. They still was expecting Wendy to be the. That got you, you know, person. Meanwhile, she was smoothing her shit out and polishing her shit while I'm the person that's coming at whoever she like. She.

[Big Cat]

She kind of cleansing the palate to transition into tv.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's right.

[Big Cat]

Yo, I can't imagine going somewhere and being like, all right, let me prepare to deal with Big Cat. And then Charlamagne. Like, yeah, man, so that last album sucked.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's how it was. That's how it was. Like. And they would book people just for me to eat. Like, yo, bring. Yo. Yo, bring Chingy in here. Salute to Chingy. I don't got no issue with Ching. I'm just saying. I'm just telling you what it was back then. And there were people that she would have issues with. And she be like, yo, I want you to get that person. And I'll be like, some people. I'm like, why? Like, when she was like, one time, she's like, get Kelly Rowland. Like, Kelly Rowland. Get Kelly Rowland is crazy. Kelly Rowland. The Godiva Chocolate goddess. Kelly Rowland. So it used to really be shit like that. Like, get that person.

[Big Cat]

And that's a discipline, too, though. And just like, I fucking.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what I mean?

[Big Cat]

Like, all right, I gotta do it. Like, like, like. Like, lack of better terms. Just following orders. Yeah, I'm gonna fall in line.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Following orders, man.

[Shug White]

Hitman on the radio.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You see what I'm saying? But also, like I said earlier, I don't. I tend not to judge people for what they do when they're in survival mode.

[Shug White]

Yeah, that's really.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what I mean? I wasn't getting paid, you know, they was giving me a place to stay. And I'm not justifying any of it, you know, But I'm just saying, like, that's where my mindset was.

[Shug White]

Tell me what you had to do, though.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I had to do what I had to do. You know, dogs was hungry, you know what I'm saying? Once again, not justifying know. I mean, I'm just simply saying that's where my mindset was, you know, back then, to.

[Big Cat]

To transition for the. From the Breakfast Club to, like, eventually getting the Black Effect podcast network going and becoming a CEO and becoming a leader. How do you manage being a personality and a CEO? Because oftentimes those tend to be two separate things.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Things having the right team around you. Like, I'm an idea guy, right? Like, I'm the person that'll come up with an idea. This is what I want it to look like. Now, who can help me execute it, you know? And really, man, God has just blessed me with the ability to know who should be doing what. Okay, so when it Was, you know, my contract time was up, and I knew. I knew what the next. Going back to what Wendy taught me, knowing what I want the next phase of my. My, you know, career to look like. It was the Black Effect podcast network. Because I'm watching everybody. I'm watching Bill Simmons with the Ringer. I'm watching, you know, Portnoy with Barstool. I'm watching all of these guys have these podcast networks, and, you know, I'm just like, yo, why are we not. Why nobody black not doing that? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, why are we not creating that kind of space for ourselves? And plus, I was already, you know, I had. I was a 10. I'm not gonna say about to say it. No. Well, I had equity. And last, you know what I mean, loudspeaker was my guy, Chris Moreau in Combat Jack. Rest in peace. So I was already in that space watching what they were doing, you know, building a network. So I was learning a lot from just doing that. And so I knew, okay, for the next phase of my career, I want to launch my own thing. So, you know, gave Chris back the percentage I had in loudspeaker and launched Black Effect. And being able to say, all right, my homegirl, Dolly can run this.

[Shug White]

This.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what I'm saying? Dolly can run this. Like, I. And I always knew, whatever I built, whatever I established, Dolly could be the president of it. Because it don't matter, you know, what your skill set is. If you just got a good skill set, two skill sets that can always work. If you're good with people in this business, if you're good with people, if you're good with talent and you can recognize talent and know how to manage talent, if you can do those two things, you can run anything in this business. And I remember it was during COVID and I hit Dolly up like, yo, I'm about to launch this podcast network. Dolly said, what is a podcast network? You know what I mean? Like, I'm familiar with podcasts, but what do you mean by network? And once I explained it to her, we was off to the races. And, you know, six years later, you know, we have had a lot of success, and it's because of someone like her. So when you say, you know, how do you go from talent to being the CEO, you got to pick the right person to actually be the president and handle the day to day while you still doing your talent thing. Cause I think it's. I don't want to say it's Impossible. But it'll be difficult to try to do what I do, you know, as a talent, and be 100% of a CEO of a network. Like, I can call Dolly right now and be like, I got this idea to do such and such, drop it on the table, and she gonna figure out how to get it done. Talent. So, like, a lot of the. The details that you need to execute things and make things, like, really, really great. She's the person that's. That's connecting all of those dots and handling those things so long. You got to have the right team around you.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm sure you had to have the right people around.

[Big Cat]

What was some of the flagship podcasts that, like, helped y' all get. When. When. What are those, like, the flagships podcast that not only helped y' all establish it as a podcast network, but the ones where y' all was like, this

[Charlamagne Tha God]

shit is gonna work, man. The beauty of when we launched Black Effect, we launched during COVID and so when I was reaching out to people to see if they wanted to be a part of the network, be a part of what we were building, it's like, yo, everybody said yes. So you had established podcasts that said yes, and then you had, you know, people that I just like and thought they were dope and should have a podcast, who all said yes. So, you know, of course, Breakfast Club. Right. We were putting Breakfast Club out as a daily podcast, and we have been putting Breakfast Club out of the daily podcast for, like, seven, eight years already. Right. So people may not know we are the most downloaded black podcast out there. It's kind of cheating, though, because we're a radio show that comes out daily.

[Shug White]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And so we drop daily. Yeah, Right. So people are, you know, listening to the Breakfast Club podcast daily. So it's kind of a cheat code. But we were just on iheart, so first things first, let's put that over here on Black Effect. So now we got a foundation, right? Like, we got a guaranteed amount of downloads that we can say we're launching with, which helps with advertisers. But then when you reach out to other established podcasts, like, you know, 85 South show, you know, podcasts like Drink Champs, podcasts, like all the Smoke, you know, back then, those podcasts were doing great with video. Their audio numbers weren't matching their video numbers. But podcasting is an audio business. We monetize the audio. So, yo, let's partner, you know, with, you know, Black Effect iheart. You get a check for your audio and let us monetize your audio. And then you started to see that audio match up with. With those video numbers. Now everybody eating and in a real way. So it really was those shows that were, you know, like, that were already established. Like I said, 85 south, all the smoke, drink champs, you know, decisions, decisions. They was horrible decisions at the time. Earn your leisure. Like, you know, if I had. If I had to name five established podcasts that, you know, stamped us early, it would definitely be those. And they allowed us to be able to launch the new podcast. Like the Jess Hilarious. You know, this is before she was on Breakfast Club. You know, we're carefully reckless, all like, you know, Teslin Figaro, you know, Glasses Malone, no ceilings. Like, we were able to launch those new podcasts because we had this established foundation, you know, Already.

[Shug White]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

How do you decide? Like, because. Because you can, like, red light or green light something when something ain't working. Like, how long do you give it before you, like, all right, we just gotta stop this.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Too long. Cause we black. No, for real. I'm just being honest. Too long. Because we black and, you know, we feel like, you know, we gotta. We gotta hold it. We gotta hold it down and keep giving people, you know, opportunity and keep

[Big Cat]

trying to work different angles.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Keep trying to work different angles.

[Big Cat]

And sometimes it just ain't. It just don't work.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's just not. And, you know, but that's when you gotta. To take your emotions out of it, and it just gotta be about business. That's another thing Dolly is great at. I'm not good at that, you know?

[Big Cat]

Yeah, Dolly's amazing.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Dolly will be like, this is not working. Yeah, this gotta be cut like. This gotta be cut like this. It's gotta be cut like that because it still gotta make sense. At the end of the day, it gotta make business sense, right? Because we got a partner. Our partner is Iheart. You know, iheart, straight corporate with it, they like, cut that gotta go. Cut that gotta go. That gotta go. So it's like, we gotta be there to be like, no, let's give this, you know, give it a chance beat. And sometimes you give it a beat and it works. Sometimes you give it a beat and it doesn't. You know, but, like, to answer your question, like, yeah, sometimes we. At least for me, I. You know, we give things a little bit too many chances. The next thing you know, we. We even deeper in the red when we shouldn't be.

[Shug White]

We.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

We could have been. We could have been cut this loss a long time ago, you know, just

[Shug White]

Being generous, though, you know?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know, but that's why I like the thing about podcasting. And I try to explain this to people nowadays, and it's not even just in podcasting. It's in anything with business. Don't always look for the big check up front. Like, bet on yourself, especially if, you know, you're partnering with people who are doing equity splits or rev splits with the ad revenue, whatever it is. Like, sometimes you might be underselling yourself because what you might actually get as an advance or as a minimum guarantee, you probably make way more if you were to take the ad revenue split. But sometimes we think that, you know, just because there's no upfront, you know, we missing out, but you'll probably make way more in the back. And like, if I was starting a podcast today, like, right now, just from scratch, I would say, all right, let's do that. Let's do the ad revenue split. Cause you eating what you kill in a way, so, you know. Cause that's a gamble for the company,

[Big Cat]

so they incentivize to make sure that you win, too.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's right. And it's. It's a gamble for the company because what if you come out, out the gate, you start doing millions of downloads? Now you're like, oh, yeah, you know, I mean, you know, you get millions of downloads out the gate, so now you got to split a way bigger bag. By the way, that's me personally as a own. As a CEO. That's what I hope for.

[Shug White]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

By the way, like, you know, I'm not. I'm not one of those people that's like, you know, hey, yeah, let's make 10 and give them 10, you know, half of one. Like, that don't even make no sense.

[Big Cat]

Which also, you know, to your point, is also the thing that comes with putting yourself in position to be powerful. You don't have to replicate the exploitive nature of corporate decision making like that we've seen in the past, where, like, even, you know, not to whatever, but.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, do it.

[Big Cat]

Just the idea of, like, I'm gonna give you a fraction of a fraction.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

You know what I mean? And it's like, yeah, well, what the. What the I'm gonna do with that? Yeah, but you got 99.

[Shug White]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

Damn. You couldn't even just give me one. You're gonna give it you. So you want 99.5 and I'm gonna get a point five. Like, what?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, I don't. Like, my thing is, like, everything should be fair and equitable. Across the board. Right? Like, my. And I have a simple philosophy. If you're the parent company, if you put something up once, you get back what you put up, let's split everything.

[Big Cat]

Let's bust it down equal. I'm back at zero. So it's no L. It's no L.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Like, whatever I'm putting into it. Let me get that back. And then we can be just zero. Be back at zero across the board, and we can start from here. I never understood why that's so difficult for people to do. Because we greedy.

[Shug White]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

You know, you think about this like. You know how your, like, your elders tell you, like, don't spend the money before you get it.

[Shug White]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

You know what I'm saying? So let's just say we do the deal. And the deal is for 10 million niggas spending 10 million. You ain't account for taxes, you ain't account for staff. But since you already spent that 10 million in your head, you want to keep as much as the 10 million as possible as you can. And now you start. Well, when it's all said and done, it's 2.5. It's like you feel cheated. But the reality is, if you had any business savvy, 10 is just a deal.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

10 is just the deal. It's the deal. But you gotta have that. I don't think there's anything wrong with having that conversation either. Right. And I think that's the other thing that, you know, I find interesting, being in the position I'm in, whether it's with podcasts, whether it's with books, you know, whether it's with audio, scripted, whether it's with films, whatever it is. I don't got no problem sharing the game with people. Like, we can have real conversations. Cause I've seen a lot of people leave great things on the table. Cause people be lying, you know what I mean? Instead of telling me, yo, how much you got for your book deal? A couple hundred thousand. Instead of telling me the truth. $4 million.

[Shug White]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Now you like, oh, shit. It's not fair because you got the four.

[Big Cat]

Like, if you tell me you got four, it's your fault, nigga. It's not gonna.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But now you have an unrealistic expectation of what's out there. So you might sit with that book company and be negotiating and be thinking, well, such and such just got four. I know I can get me four. And then when that person gives you the real number, which is a few hundred thousand, you like, oh, they trying to play me. Like, yo, they don't think I'm as valuable as this person. So now you say fuck that deal, when the reality is this. This person that told you they got the 4 million lied to you.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Shug White]

Oh, they kept you down.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

They kept you. Understand what I'm saying? Like that.

[Big Cat]

And that's. And that shit is bogus.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, it's beyond bogus. So it's like you want to have conversations with people in this business who gonna tell you the truth.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Right. And then now you can compare. Like, how much. How much you got for your. Your book deal? I'll tell you my first book deal. 300,000 and a $50,000 bonus. Right. And by the way, I can say that because I've had other people come to me and ask me that, and I told him the truth.

[Big Cat]

And I'll show you my deal points and my. That's good bread.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's beyond great bread. You know what I mean?

[Big Cat]

We talking about. You know, I think the thing that we have to keep in perspective at all times is where you come from, you was 30 on a couch. Zero.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes.

[Big Cat]

300 is life changing money. If you go from zero to 300, that's life changing. When start getting money now, enough ain't enough. So we also had to think about the average salary of the working class. It's like, bro, 300,000. They would.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's actually 150,000 after taxes, but, you know, I like to keep that in perspective. Well, but.

[Big Cat]

And do they tax the bonus?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, all that. Everything gets taxed.

[Big Cat]

We gotta find some.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Everything gets taxed. But my point with that conversation is tell people the truth.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, for sure.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Like, we're all just trying to figure it out. Like, we're all just trying to navigate our way, you know, through this business. So have real conversations with people. Like, just tell folks the truth about what's really going on. Like, podcasting got bad because people really think they be getting shafted. Like, you see such and such got a $5 million deal, $10 million deal. You looking like. I know I get more audio downloads than that person. I know I get more views than that person. I definitely know I go more viral than that. Like, so what are you talking about? They got this, you know, and it messes, but it messes up the landscape. Cuz you leave good situations on the table, cuz you think somebody getting over on you. Yeah, and that's the other thing with podcasting, too. Podcasting is just a. And I'm sure y' all realize that now. It's just it's just a business that there is a lot of smoking mirrors to it. Like. Yeah, when it works, it works. And to your point, working looks different. Different for everybody.

[Big Cat]

Yes.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Work success is subjective.

[Big Cat]

Absolutely.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what I mean? If you, if you went from making 30, $40,000 a year on whatever your job is, but now you making, you know, some good six figure money off podcasting, that's you just success to me.

[Shug White]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what I mean?

[Big Cat]

And I always try to stress that to people. Like when you start seeing success be okay with the level of success you at, because oftentimes you two years into a game, you comparing yourself to niggas that have been doing it for 10.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's right.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. You, you also shouldn't want that because not being able to work your way up to the 10 year mark, you green as hell. You gonna burn it. And then you also bank on it being permanent. Things change, situations change. If you in a, if you're in the media space, especially nowadays, is your opinion could change your career good or bad?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

For sure. Word up.

[Big Cat]

You know what I'm saying? You can ask Big Cat. I always tell Big Cat that, that money, man, don't worry about the money. If, if it's people in this shit that's getting money and they ain't half as good as us, then all we got to do is just continue to focus on being good, continue to focus on the quality.

[Shug White]

That's it.

[Big Cat]

So when stuff like when I, when, when people are sending me like screen recordings of like, yo, Charlamagne just shouted you out on Brilliant Idiots, it's like, see? Yeah, the money coming, nigga. That's right, it's coming.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's right.

[Big Cat]

When we get shouted out on the Joe Budden podcast, these are the, these, these, the big dogs. These people been doing it 10, 15 years. So if me two years in, if I got they attention, who's next?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You're 100% right.

[Big Cat]

Who above them? Is they getting their attention? Cause they got bosses, they got executives, they got ad partners. They just put me on them niggas radar. That's right. So just be cool. We was doing our first shows. He was like, yo, how much we made on the show? Zero, nigga. I invested it all in the show, but we also didn't lose shit. Yeah, but what we did get to see is do we have a show? Do we have a live show? Because if the live show don't work, we don't need to be trying to focus on no live show. But if we got a Live show. And it worked. Now, okay, we'll get the money eventually.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's right.

[Big Cat]

The deals get structured the right way. The executive come or this person that can make sure you get the chicken. They come see the show and they say they got a fucking show.

[Shug White]

That's right.

[Big Cat]

Here it come.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You have to be able to be patient. You gotta be patient. And you gotta recognize opportunity when it's not a paycheck attached to it.

[Big Cat]

Bingo.

[Shug White]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I worked for Wendy Williams for a year and a half for free. She was like, yo, I can give you a place to stay, but I can't pay you. All right. You know, I took my ass up from South Carolina and was on that radio with her every day. Cause I understood that if I do what I'm supposed to do here in this moment, I can write my own ticket. And that's exactly what happened. It was people listening that I didn't even know was listening. To be honest with you. I didn't even know how many people cared that I was on Wendy's show till I got fired. And then when I got fired, that shit is on the news. You know what I mean? Like a news station is coming to do interviews with me and Wendy about getting fired. You know what I mean? I'm like, oh, people care that I was. They actually were listening the whole time. They cared. So. So that shit like that is priceless, man.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Cause you get pressed for losing a job. You see what I'm saying? That's impact.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That was actually my last two firings was like that. When I got fired from Wendy. When I got fired from 100.3 to beat in Philadelphia.

[Big Cat]

Philadelphia.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I interviewed Beanie Siegel. And that's what they was like. Yo, they said Jay Z got you fired. It wasn't true, of course, but that was the Internet rumor. Because Beanie was going crazy on Jay Z.

[Big Cat]

This whole over with call.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

There's always been a slight Jay Z derangement derangement syndrome amongst people. It is crazy. It's a slight Jay Z derangement syndrome. It's like Jay Z and Roc Nation can't be responsible for every bad thing that happens in black community. Like everything bad that happens, they got

[Shug White]

to put on somebody.

[Big Cat]

I think it's. I think all it is is really. It's just a byproduct of power, though. Yeah, that just is what it is. And also black power. Black power.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Because we. We tend to feel like when we see people in certain positions, we just don't understand how they got there.

[Big Cat]

We can't believe and we can't. And we also can't conceptualize that they got it honest.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And that's wild to me. I don't us black people, God fearing, you know, human beings who got praying grandmothers, you know, who believe, who from day one get told to believe in a higher power, Work hard, use your God given gifts and who knows what can happen, right? We believe that we can't do the impossible. Like, look at what we've overcome as a people.

[Big Cat]

Existence here is literally the impossible.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, what, look at what we look at what we've survived. Think about what our ancestors went through. We're the descendants of that and we think that is impressive. And also, man, when you really look at it, whether it's the Jay Z's, the Oprahs, the David Stewarts, the Robert Smith, what they got is a small crumb of what the white folks got. Elon Musk just made a trillion dollars. And I saw more people upset about Jay Z's exclusive Target deal. That's not an exclusive Target deal, by the way, than they were about this man making a trillion dollars.

[Big Cat]

I felt some type of way about both. Yeah, I said, yo, tear that limb from limb. Like weapons a trillion.

[Shug White]

Yeah, we should be after him. Yeah, we need to get him right now.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Limb to limb, like weapons a trillion dollars.

[Shug White]

Come on, my.

[Big Cat]

What you finna do with that?

[Shug White]

Yeah, what you need that for?

[Big Cat]

What you finna purchase, the moon?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, like probably the probably the probably. Yeah, but I'm just like, I saw more of a visceral reaction.

[Big Cat]

I think that you gotta be, you gotta be mindful of what the Jay Z thing is. It's connected to the boycott. So because people have the black community decided collectively to boycott Target?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Did they? Collectively, they couldn't even decide whether it was over or not. About a couple months ago.

[Big Cat]

See that and that be that shit though, because I feel like, you know, that's just corporation shit. Like, okay, if you know when. Who is it? Pastor Jamal Bryan. Past Jamal Bryan, he was the one. Even though he wasn't the person who.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It was the two sisters from Minnesota who actually, yeah, started it.

[Big Cat]

But he, he used his voice to amplify the thing and then people did collectively, you know, majority rule. If we get 51, that's collective, you know what I mean? As far as we go. Because we know we diverge into multiple different takes and ideologies and or just perspectives on how we should do as a community. So I think in connection to that people was like. Well, that's like kind of crossing the picket line in most people's eyes. And that's where. That's the only place where I see people where I understood why they was upset.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But isn't it selective outrage, though? Because I was looking on Target's website. Kendrick Lamar, GNX Exclusive Target Vinyl. J. Cole, the Fall off. Exclusive Target vinyl.

[Big Cat]

It's not the one that made news because it's not J, because it's Jay Z.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But that's what I mean when I say it gotta be some type of Jay Z derangement syndrome. Cause it's like I look like every major, not just hip hop artist, artist, period, has that by. By exclusive Target vinyl. And I'm just like, so why J? Why y' all mad at Jay? Like J. Cole. The fall off came out a couple months ago. Kendrick came out in December. The boycott been going on for a year. Yeah. And by the way, I. If everybody was consistent with it, I'd be like, all right, yeah, like you said, another one, cross the picket line, get on his ass. But it's just like, they've all been doing it and start it.

[Big Cat]

But I think that's the thing, too. It's like, media moves so fast. Media cycles move so fast. The boycott does start here. And then the less we talk about it, the more people just start trickling their way back into the Target. And it's low. You know what I mean? I'm in Target with the hoodie and shades on, so niggas don't see me. But I'm in here. And, like, that's how people. That's how people maneuver. It's like, online, I'm boycotting, but I'm still in that motherfucker. And it's like. Like, there is something to be said that if we bring Kendrick into that conversation, given how people view Kendrick, we can make that a headline.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what I'm saying?

[Big Cat]

But the Black Messiah, but the bigger headline is Jay Z, because he come from the hood to a billionaire. So did Kendrick, though, not a billionaire.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So is it about the money? Is it the point?

[Big Cat]

I think it's always about the money.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay.

[Big Cat]

Because you have to also understand, you know, we've had this conversation, too, that people who are activists also have an opinion on capitalism as well. So that's like to people, people don't look at. They don't put Kendrick in the light of capitalism, which is crazy. They put him in the light of activism.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Kendrick is making hundreds of millions of dollars.

[Big Cat]

He wore a $3 million crown of thorns.

[Shug White]

Crazy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And Cole, Kendrick and Cole are making

[Big Cat]

hundreds of millions of dollars. They're. They're extremely wealthy people. Right. But I think if we put we not putting J. Cole, we give J. Cole the everyday man title, we give Kendrick the activism title, we give Jay Z the capitalist title.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And I think that's whack, I think because to me then that's all about just perception and perspective and how a person is presented.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. But what it really is, it's just about being comfortable. It's how we seek comfortability. I could put you in this box. I'm comfortable with you in that box.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What if you find out and I don't. I'm just throwing this out there. I don't know if it's true or not. What if you find out somebody like J. Cole and Kendrick don't do nothing for their community, but then Jay Z is a person that's always trying to empower black people. How would that fuck your perception up?

[Big Cat]

Yeah, I think the thing is it can be a little narrow minded when it's so online because I think what people want to, what people want to do more than anything is control their perception. Right. So what if you are tweeting all this activist shit? What if you do have the best takes but you ain't never left your house? Are you an activist? Yeah, brother, but you are right online. You always have the right takes online, which is honestly easy to do given the fact that you have access to the analytics of like what the crowd has accepted and if you always go with the acceptable answer, which is what you can control and do online. But for me, it's like I actually will try to put money where my mouth is. So we'll do the graduate give. We make sure that we reach out and bless the folks that have graduated from these trade schools. We make sure that we try to put shit together. I go talk to the kids. Like I try to be active in the community because I never really been an all talk type nigga. But that's not to say that the person that is all talk is always gonna be critiquing people that do shit.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What you just said is what I think about all the time. I hate them all talk niggas. Cause I know em. I know you don't leave that car. You know what I'm saying? I know you get online and you just say, no, I'm just saying I know you just get online and don't leave that car. I know you just get on your podcast and say exactly what you think people want you to say. But what are you really doing? Yeah, that's all I'm about. I'm about action. Like, I'm not. I'm not going to judge you too much by what you say. I'm going to judge you by what do you do and here.

[Big Cat]

And this is just the reality of this shit too. I'm going to say this. There is no. There is no cookie cutter activism, right? It's going to look different for everybody. But I will say this. The closer you get to fulfilling your vision, the more you gonna become like the people in the people's eyes who, like, are like grass, like they on their rah rah shit. They gonna start to put you in the box with them niggas once they start seeing you have success. And so it's like, it becomes a thing of, like, where do we find a balance in all of this? Right? Because I think the thing is when you cast that wide net of like, I wanna, you know, advocate for every marginalized and every oppressed person and things like that, which is like, that's a beautiful plight. But then how do you. Where do you put the focal point on your community and what that looks like? And then it's very easy for you to lend all of your activism to groups that you are not necessarily a part of. But then there's a lot of criticism when it comes to the group you are a part of. We have to figure out how to balance that. We also have to be, like, mindful of the fact that this is America, nigga, We come up in America and we come up in a system of capitalism. We come up in a system of patriarchy. You are always gonna be undoing some level of misogyny as a man. You always gonna be doing some level of. Of capitalism if you want to go to communism route. And also you don't have any realistic point of view or lived experience in communism. So now it's just an idea. And it's like you being idealistic about it when there are people who have lived these things in reality that can show you the cons of this shit too. So I think it's like we take our ideas and make it all pros. So then I could find the cons in everybody else's way of approaching life. You got too much money.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Money.

[Big Cat]

You my enemy now.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's right.

[Big Cat]

And it's like, well, if. If I could point to what I've done with the money to help people, what about that? And then it's like, well, that don't matter. But then it's like. Well, it kind of do. Because this is like literally what you talk about.

[Shug White]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I think some of these things are so. They're so nuanced. But social media is a place of extremes.

[Big Cat]

Right, for sure.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So we're trying to have conversations about capitalism on a platform that doesn't allow, you know, a nuance. Right. Because I think about. I think about. I was thinking about a couple of things. I'm thinking about the irony of the Target boycott because. And the irony of people having selective outrage and focusing on Jay Z but ignoring everybody else who did that before him. It's the same thing with the Target boycott.

[Shug White]

Right?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Like, Target wasn't the only company that. That eliminated their DEI program. Meta, Google, Amazon. But the reality is, niggas don't really want to give up Facebook. They don't really want to give up Instagram. You know what I'm saying? They don't want to stop calling Amazon for those packages.

[Big Cat]

Keep it real, though. Like, if I give up Meta, where does my activism live?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I just had this conversation with my guy, Mouse Jones. Salute to Mouse. The same way, the same place he lived before there was social media in the streets. Through the arts, through books, through podcasting.

[Shug White]

But people ain't really in the streets no more like that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But why not?

[Shug White]

Let's bring em.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Let's bring em back to the. Bring em back to the streets. And we are still in the streets. We walked in this building by being in the streets, for sure. We got out of our cars or whoever and walked on the sidewalk and probably passed a bunch of people. Cause we were too busy looking at our devices as opposed to seeing a bunch of people that you could possibly interact with with and build with and get some messaging off too. You know what I mean? Like, and by the way, we're going to have to have a great disconnect soon. Because if y' all think capitalism was something that techno, techno feudalism about to

[Big Cat]

be, this is going to be like a. Like a. Like you. It's going to be a part of your.

[Shug White]

They already Glasses. They already doing it with the glasses.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But they got us already.

[Big Cat]

I mean, it's symbiote. We have a symbiotic relationship with these phones. And when you create an algorithm that is essentially a dopamine slot machine.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

They've already done it.

[Big Cat]

It's done. No, it is done. We're on that motherfucker.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Like literally the greatest. Well, techno feudalism, all of these algo bosses, they're monetizing our emotions.

[Shug White]

Yes.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And the cloud Capital is conflict every single day. They give us a reason to get online and be mad at each other

[Big Cat]

every day or mad at something.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

At something. When I see this, that's the only reason I even bought that conversation up. Because when I see the thing about something like a Jay Z, I'm just like, Elon Musk became a trillionaire this week. Y' all mad at this. Donald Trump just did the UFC 250 and had millions of our taxpaying dollars going to a UFC fight. But y' all upset because it's just a artist with a Target exclusive, and there's been other artists with Target exclusive. They put that shit out there to monetize our emotions, and they mine the anger that we might have towards capitalism, but we're just directing it at the wrong thing.

[Big Cat]

Another thing, too, about that. And then, just like, the reality of it is, is that we've proven that we can actually have an effect on black people, where it's like, it seemed like can't do nothing. It seemed like them screams go unanswered.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But ain't that pussy, though?

[Big Cat]

It's pussy, but it's the person, you

[Charlamagne Tha God]

know you can't beat you you ignore.

[Big Cat]

I mean, you go beat up on

[Charlamagne Tha God]

the person you think you can.

[Big Cat]

It's the concept of, like, the police come around this bitch and beat your ass. You ain't never shot no cop, but a nigga step on your shoe and it's up. And it's like. It's that. It's like people like to go where they. Where they feel like they can have an impact or where they feel like they can have some power.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That shit pisses me off.

[Big Cat]

And it's like, honestly, you know, the thing is, it got back to what you said, too. It's just energy harvesting. Like, that's what they do on purpose. Yes.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You think they don't amplify when they see a conflict going on, you think they don't amplify it on purpose? Same thing happened with the roast. Kevin Hart. I thought what Tony Hinchcliffe said was some bullshit. You know what I mean? But don't beat up Kevin. Beat up the person who said it. Like, now, did Kevin invite the person over as a family, collectively? Can we get on? Kevin Adams, Tell me what the fuck you bring this man now. You the mini he. Damn, Nick. Beat this man to death. Like, but remember who.

[Big Cat]

Actually, we can. We can. We can hold him accountable for the fact that you got him there. But the smoke really should be.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Should be for him, I think.

[Big Cat]

But this is another thing, too. It's like that editing, bro. Like I told, like.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But it was live.

[Big Cat]

When you see a. When you. When you see a. All teeth and gums, laughing at it. Yeah, that ain't funny.

[Shug White]

It ain't funny.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know it's funny if you go watch the Breakfast Club interview. When Kevin was on Breakfast Club Interview, like, that's what I said to him. I said, that damn performative ass laugh got you in trouble, didn't it?

[Big Cat]

That's what it did.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That Hollywood laugh. Yeah, that Sambo ass laugh ain't nothing that funny.

[Shug White]

Nothing. That wasn't even funny.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, that's what it is.

[Big Cat]

And, and, and you know, to that point, it's like, man, bruh, you know, if. If. If everybody goes Regina hall in that situation, there is no smoke for Kevin. If he goes Regina hall and just is like, I know what I got at stake, so I ain't gonna. I ain't gonna go Will Smith on you right now, my nigga.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But that was some bull.

[Big Cat]

But I'm gonna let them eat you up. And. And I'm gonna let you know that was some.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Big Cat]

Cause it ain't shit funny about that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, no, and.

[Big Cat]

And that's just real. You know what I mean? Speaking of MAGA and shit like that, how do you maintain this friendship with Andrew Shaws?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's my guy, man. I known Andrew for. We been doing the pod for 13 years, so that mean I known Andrew for 15.

[Big Cat]

Did you ever tell him, like, some of his tastes, like, especially when it comes to the Donald Trump.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

All the time. Like, people forget. Like, in the first. The first time Donald Trump won, we had a whole episode called the Exorcism of Alt Right Andy. Like, that's what the episode was called. And we literally went back and forth. Cause I'm just like. I didn't understand where that was coming from. You know what I mean? But then, honestly, I don't know if that was the way I should have handled it. Right. Because our friends can be allowed to be wrong.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

They can be allowed to be what they own. They can be allowed to be on what they own. And then when they're wrong, if they can hold themselves accountable and say, yo, what's happening right now is some bullshit. Yeah, I leave the door open for that. That, you know. And that's what's been going on. That's why, like, when I see people getting so mad about the Manosphere, the Joe Rogans, the Theo Vaughns, and Andrew Ships, like, how dare y' all critique Trump now, when y' all help Trump get in this position. But you want them to keep acting like this shit is okay. Cause the be the reality of the situation is that's the only question I have for any of this shit nowadays. Anything you tell me about Trump, you know, my question is, well, what do white people gonna do about it? Cause because black people, you see what they doing to us in the south as far as the redistricting, right? So they've weakened our voting power. We just had the conversation about how, you know, black people, we really can't do nothing to them. White, powerful white folks, right? Like, so what are the white people gonna do about what's going on in this country? That's my question.

[Big Cat]

And the cars is really in their hands. And the thing is, is that all in their hands. I feel like when you. When you are a pawn and you think you a night, they are working your ass. Because then people getting work. I was, I would even say to the point, like, I think I discovered shows during COVID when he was doing the turn your video sideways, and I was like, oh, this is smooth. So then when he kind of jumped on the band, I was like, is this doing.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The crazy thing is, though, he only had one interview.

[Big Cat]

You. Yeah, but that's enough.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It is, but. But nobody paid attention to when he had Bernie Sanders on.

[Big Cat]

I mean, I think. So this is the other thing too. Mark Cuban, the game of extremes, right? The game of extremes is, you know, objectivity goes out the window. Like, if you have Bernie Sanders on, you can't have Trump on it because you. This has turned into like, like essentially gotta pick sides. It's gang banging, like that shit. So I think the thing is too, and even after the fact, like, if you can say, I fucked up, I was wrong. But don't say like, this isn't what I voted for. It's like, you did, you did sort of kind.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, listen, I'm not gonna speak for him, but.

[Big Cat]

Not speaking for him. But just. It's not even just his sentiment. That's been the sentiment. That's kind of the way that I feel like they've been trying to escape accountability.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But I think that it's all about the algorithm. And I think that we gotta remember that when you're dealing with one of the greatest con men of all time. And Donald Trump, he knows how to manipulate all algorithms, because whatever you want to hear from him, he has said somewhere. So I can literally pull up him saying, I don't believe in this, but Then also pull up him saying, I believe in this. And depending on what algorithm you tuned into, that's what you're getting fed. So when I hear them say, I didn't vote for that, I can understand why they feel that way. You know why? Because I watched Andrew Schultz interview Donald Trump, and Donald Trump tell him he not starting no new wars. You know what I'm saying? Like, I saw them have that conversation about immigration.

[Big Cat]

This is my thing, my nigga. It's Donald Trump.

[Shug White]

Trump, yeah.

[Big Cat]

Why?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He's the greatest con man ever.

[Big Cat]

Exactly. And also with that information, here's the thing. No matter what, what year it was, if Donald Trump said across me, I don't believe nothing. This say, I've seen your history. At what point history of your business. Trump stakes fail. Trump Airlines, right? Fail. Casino fail. It's like, that's what he do. He. He raised. He raises the capital, siphon it back into his pocket, bankrupt the. And then go and do. It's rinse and repeat.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Right? But you and he.

[Big Cat]

And. And now it just so happened that the business he's bankrupting is America.

[Shug White]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But he's been able to continue to get opportunity after opportunity because he's the greatest con man ever.

[Big Cat]

This ain't handsome.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Like, what y' all act like we don't know people. We know people like that in the hood.

[Big Cat]

We do.

[Shug White]

We do.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Like, you know, he on bullshit. You gotta tell y' all keep going back to that.

[Big Cat]

That only be kind of like the local corner.

[Shug White]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Not the whole corner.

[Big Cat]

He only got power on the west

[Charlamagne Tha God]

side because he ain't had the opportunity.

[Big Cat]

Right?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But that same person in front of a microphone and be able to talk to millions of people. You'll see some amazing happen. You know what I mean? Like, that dude is literally the greatest con man ever. I don't know how he gets away with it. I really don't.

[Big Cat]

I don't.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But he does. And it works.

[Big Cat]

And the thing is, is, like, even somebody like, I seen someone like a Sean Strickland who just. This is a prototypical Trumper, but then they.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He's a UFC fighter, right?

[Big Cat]

Yeah. But then he go to the joint with the Trump was in the Epstein files, and it's like, okay, well, escort this motherfucker out of here, too. Once you jump out the boat, nigga, it's over. It's over. It's gang shit over here. So once you jump off, nigga, we gonna treat you just like we treat everybody else.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But that shows how people are just into Their interest. Right. Cause if you really cared about the Epstein fight files. I wasn't even thinking about no Epstein files until, like, all of that shit really started popping off. Like, that wasn't even on my. On my radar. But to a lot of people, it was like, that's what they were making their podcast about. They was voting for Trump because he was going to release the Epstein files. Trump was telling them he's going to release the Epstein files.

[Big Cat]

Nah, he's good.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You see what I'm saying?

[Big Cat]

Because he in there, and he's in there.

[Shug White]

Yeah, but.

[Big Cat]

But that also is, like, a great tactic. See, like, I'm in there, but I'mma release it. Just. And that kind of like. Like, oh, he ain't scared of like, so he must have been. He knows some real dirt.

[Shug White]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

He gonna release. And it's like, yeah, we gonna redact the. Out of this. But not only see them black panels, that's what the Epstein look.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, before redact. Before redact, it's. Oh, y'.

[Shug White]

All.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Y' all care about them. Oh, y'. All. Oh, y' all remember me saying I was gonna release them. Oh, oh, y' all really wanted that.

[Shug White]

That's what y' all wanted.

[Big Cat]

For real.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

They won't stop talking about this. For real, man. Like, by the way, I don't even think it was them releasing it. That's the other thing I got that. That was. That was Bibi Netanyahu. That was the almighty Bibi Netanyahu. And whenever Trump wouldn't do his bidding, Real king.

[Big Cat]

That's the real ring they gotta kill.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's right. I don't think that none of that was coming from Trump and his administration because they wanted it to. That was because it would always come out as a news report right before it came from the doj. It would always come out as like, this happened like this. By the way, I saw this happen last week. It was the story of what happened in the Situation Room that came out because they were upset because, remember, Trump was about to make the deal with Iran. Bibi don't want no deal. So let's put this little thing about the Situation Room out to remind you who's boss.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And then after the deal happened, it was something completely different about the Epstein father. Now you're hearing like, something major is about to drop from the Epstein father. But that's what he's been holding over his head to make sure that he does his best. Been.

[Big Cat]

You know what's crazy, though, is that you remember what. What's that. What's that? Chappelle special? The bird. What was it? The. The something about the bird theory or something like that?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The bird theory.

[Big Cat]

You remember, it was like two birds, one stone. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It was this thing where he explained. He basically used Iceberg Slim's pimp as an analogy for what his deal with Comedy Central was.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I remember.

[Big Cat]

So, yeah. So basically the idea is that Comedy Central was essentially trying to pimp him. They tried to get some dirt on him to hold it over her head to force him into the deal. So then that's why, when he ain't take the deal, is you a crackhead? You this.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, yeah, gotcha.

[Big Cat]

So. And then you look at it on a. On a massive scale. That's basically what our relationship is to Israel. They got. They compromised. This nigga's compromised. And we always got something we can hold over you. And like, yeah, y. Y. The people you hired in the feds might not arrest you, but if I push that button, yeah, it's going to prison or die. Some type of unfortunate circumstances. And when you got somebody in that compromised position, it's just a puppet master.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The puppet master work.

[Big Cat]

That's what I was like, yeah, you send 40 billion to Israel. Cause them niggas got something on you.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

All you gotta do is pay attention to the news. Whenever you see a little sprinkle of something from the Epstein files, there's a move that's made. It's either a move that BB wants to happen or a move that he doesn't want to happen. Because he's warning you, when he drops a little bit, I'm letting you know. Hey, I don't want this to happen. So let me show you what could happen if you don't do what I tell you to do. Oh, you did it anyway. Cause think about it. America says it's a peace treaty. Iran says it's a peace treaty. Israel's like. Bibi's like, no, it's not.

[Shug White]

And no ceasefire.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You see what I'm saying?

[Shug White]

You talking about the bird revelation.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, Bird revelation.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, it's when it was like a. It was when he. I remember he came back and was releasing all them specials on Netflix. Speaking of Breakfast Club, Netflix is clear. I mean, another historic deal type shit. Cause y' all gonna be streaming the entire show.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

We are done.

[Big Cat]

Already doing it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes. Live every morning, Monday through Friday, 6am to like, 9:15, 9:20.

[Big Cat]

The one thing that I've discussed and. Or just, you know, pondered on is, like, some of the pros and cons of a podcast being on Netflix. I want to know what your opinion of the pros and cons are. But just for me, it's like it just kind of kills the audience interaction. There's no live chat, there's no culture being built around it in the comment section, which is important to creating a community around the show. How do y' all mitigate those things? Like when you take it away, what's the.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's interesting. I don't. I'm be honest with you, man. The engagement to me still happens because social media still exists. So they may not be able to leave. And they still leave comments on YouTube. We still put clips up there on YouTube, but Instagram and Facebook and YouTube and Twitter, like there are people are always constantly still commenting on the show. One thing that was interesting that Netflix showed me early on was short clips. We're in the short clip economy now. Short clips work better on YouTube. Long form content works better on Netflix. Cause when you're sitting down to watch Netflix, you sitting down to watch a movie, you sitting down to watch a TV show, like there's a certain amount of time that you spend watching Netflix. And I mean, when they told me that in the beginning, I was like, oh, that's good information. But now that you can see it in real time, where you can, they can show you that your retention on full episodes of Breakfast Club are way longer than they were on YouTube. You like, like, oh, okay, that makes a lot of sense. But for me, the ultimate play was always being live on Netflix every day. Like we're Netflix's first global show.

[Shug White]

That's dope.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's on live every day. So, you know, we might be on 6 in the morning in New York, but it's 11am in Ghana, right? That matters, you know, to me, cuz when I, when I go out the country, man, like there's people who, who rock with Breakfast Club in a real, real way. Like, like, it's like, it's literally like being in America. Like they have that type of cultural connection to the show. So for them to be able to watch what we're doing in real time live, I think it's dope. And I think podcast being on Netflix is dope because it just shows the evolution of podcasting. Like I saw Mark Marin, he was on Carrie Swish's podcast and he was just on it, like just on podcast being on Netflix. And I was like, God damn, that's some old bit of shit, especially coming from you because you were A trailblazer in podcasting. You should be happy to see podcasting take it to another level. And it's not like every podcast in the world is on Netflix. Like, you know, it's just the ones who chose to say, hey, I want to be on Netflix.

[Big Cat]

It. Was it important for you to kind of just be first to that? Like, when the deal was presented, how do you weigh that out? Because there's obviously some losses up front that's gonna come with it. Cause it takes time for people to integrate to something new.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, it was. It felt like, you know, like you said, like, it just was different. Cause we've been doing the same thing for 15 years, putting interviews up on YouTube. So you like, damn, how they gonna get the content? You know, Are things gonna still have the same virality that they used to have? And the reality is it does, right? And. And initially, it was so funny, man. It took a week and a half for people to be like, this shit don't work like the Internet. And they're like, this shit, don't worry. Nobody watches Breakfast Club anymore. It's been a week and a half, right? It didn't help when Jess was live from wherever she was live at, listening to the comments like, yo, we lost our engagement, or whatever. Like, yo, where's that coming from?

[Big Cat]

Don't panic.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And then it comes out. The first quarter numbers come out, and it's like, breakfast Club is. We make up 44% of all Netflix podcasting, period. Of all of the podcasts. They did deals with Iheart, they did deals with Barstool, they did deals with Spotify, all of these different people. But we make up 44% of all podcasting, period. I mean, shit, that's a dub, and we're number one. So now it's like, everybody's like, like, okay, let's shut the fuck up and see how this plays out. But also, the other thing that people don't realize with Netflix, I don't look at podcasters as just people that are gonna be sitting in front of microphones hosting podcasts. I look at podcasters as people who have real talent, who we can be creating real IP around. Like, I saw what Theo Vaughn just did with David Spade and that movie they put out called Busboys, right? Are you looking at what. What youtubers like Curry Barker just did with that movie Obsession? Like, they shot that movie for a million dollars, and that shit is going to finish with, like, 300 million, $330 million worldwide at the box office. So that's how I'm looking at it. I'm looking at it like what's the Grits and Eggs TV show? What's the Grits and Eggs cartoon? The Grits and Eggs movie. Like that's, that's where my mindset is at with it, right? Like we can create movies and film with this. Podcast has talent that is already built in audience. What better place to be to do that than somewhere like Netflix that's real, you know what I mean? So that's what my mind is.

[Big Cat]

Gotta diversify your bonds.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You got to. Every single time. You got to, you got to.

[Big Cat]

Is it, is it, how, how do, how did that, how do you deal with that? Like how do you keep a. How. Keep it level headed? When it's like you bet on something, it is a risk. You know what I mean? Cause like if it does flop, it flops. Now luckily for you and Breakfast Club is like, it is syndicated, it is proven to work. So if this does fail, we could just go back to what we was doing, right?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Who cares?

[Big Cat]

So this is like give you the leverage to take that risk. But then it's like. And I was right, nigga.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what I mean? Well, I think the thing people fail to realize about Breakfast Club is cause they're always comparing Breakfast Club to everything that's out there. But you can't compare Breakfast Club to everything that's out there.

[Big Cat]

Nah. Cause it's radio.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

We're on radio show.

[Big Cat]

It's syndicated, bro. It's like there ain't no sin like syndicated. And podcasts don't even, don't even make no sense.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Our primary audience is terrestrial radio. Yeah, like there's 8 to 10 million people listening weekly on the radio. Yeah, everything else is gravy. So you got Breakfast Club comes out as a radio show. We put it out of the daily podcast. We still put the clips on YouTube and social media and everything else else. And now we're distributed on Netflix.

[Big Cat]

Right?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's four or five different ways that you consume the Breakfast Club. So the Netflix thing, the licensing on Netflix for the video, that's one way of distributing Breakfast Club. And that's not even the primary way that people consume the show. The primary way people consume the show is the radio, then the audio podcast. Everything else is great. Everything. So it's just like what kind of risk is it really? Like we go on Netflix. If it works, it works great. If it doesn't, hey, we back on YouTube, continuing to do what it is that we do every day. But my larger play with all of this is taking all of this amazing podcast talent and let's go into the next level with it. Like, we just seen three or four YouTubers do it. You've seen Curry Barker do it. You've seen the dude who did Iron Lung do it. The people who were doing that backroom movie do it. Like, these are all people who were creating content on YouTube. Now they got movies in theaters that are making hundreds of millions of dollars. Like when me and Kevin Hart started our company, SBH Productions, which did audio scripted. We started that like six, seven years ago. That was our mindset. We're going to take this audio scripted IP and turned it into TV and film. And one of the projects broke down profits. We sold, you know, to become a film. But that's how I feel about all of this content. Like, whether it's books, whether it's, you know, podcasting, whether it's audio scripted. Like, how do we turn that into something else? Which I believe is the visual. You telling me that y' all two couldn't be in a movie?

[Shug White]

No, we couldn't be in a movie.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what I'm saying? What are we talking about?

[Big Cat]

Hey, when. Hey, look, bro, the Quietest kill, when they announced the Tubi deal with Kevin on stage, like, yeah, they said the airport was in there. I was like, IMDb nigga, I'm on now. I'm already in now. So it's like, I'm lit. I'm on airport shit. So it's like, oh, it's lit and it's. Yeah, because this is the thing. Like, you know, the podcast shit is like you on camera two hours at a time twice a week, and then, you know, regard or however, whatever your workload you is turning something on.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Word.

[Big Cat]

You know what I'm saying? It's still authentic, but you turning something on. You know what I mean? You gotta be a personality. You can't just be in this bitch. Like, we just gonna phone it in today. Like, that ain't how that shit works.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Right. And it goes back to another reason. It goes back to what I was saying earlier when you said, how you gonna get messaging out with no social media? Yeah, I said through the arts.

[Shug White]

Through the arts.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's how we used to messaging out before.

[Big Cat]

It is the thing through the arts.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So why aren't we thinking about that? Like, yo, if social media was to be gone tomorrow, people could still listen to the Gritsen Eggs podcast.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

They could still watch that. They could still read that Gritson egg book that y' all wrote they could still, you know, watch that gritsnaig TV show or movie. Like that's how we used to learn back in the day. I learned through books, I learned through music, I learned through movies. That's how I learned. I was sitting in Monks Corner, South Carolina, learning how to transcend my circumstances because of books and the arts.

[Big Cat]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's where my mind is always at.

[Shug White]

Yeah. I think things are moving so fast that people don't realize that you can actually still do that. Yes. You know what I'm saying? We moving.

[Big Cat]

I don't even think people can conceptualize taking weeks on one painting.

[Shug White]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

You know what I'm saying? Taking weeks on a painting and something like that. You see what I'm saying? Because people who create artists like you don't understand the amount of time they invest into this takes a lot of time. You got to put your phone down to really engage with it and do it. And I think that like, like to big cat's point, moving so fast will make you forget how it feels to just slow down, slow down, disconnect. And it's important because this is like literally how we've lived all of human history up until maybe the last 10 years. And now it's a standard. And it's like it is, it is a little dangerous. And it's also a thing of like, well, we can't evolve past this as well. Like it doesn't have to be this symbiotic. We need to have a different type of relationship to nature or to humans. And everything can't be like this. Like this. This is putting a wall between us at. Right. So even in the arts is important. Like if you say, oh, we having a literary literacy crisis, that mean like everybody collectively need to focus more on not only writing, but reading. And, and like if that become a standard practice, if your kids can't read, it's cuz they don't see you reading.

[Shug White]

That's right.

[Big Cat]

Which is what it is. If your kids scrolling social media all day, I can guarantee you I walk in the crib, you doing the same shit. So it's an example that's being said. And it's just the honesty is like everybody need to stop trying to separate themselves from the reality. We all addicted to this.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's crap. No, it really is. I was having this conversation on the radio yesterday. Everybody's addicted. That's why the only thing that's going to save us from techno feudalism is the great disconnect. Like it might be a whole other generation Like, I don't put my kids on social media. And that's the other thing you should think about. If the techno lords, these algo bosses, these Silicon Valley executives, if they're.

[Big Cat]

I'll go Boston so late.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

If they're not letting their kids be on social media to tell you everything you need to know.

[Big Cat]

And then you see the nigga from McDonald's, he don't want to bite that shit.

[Shug White]

He don't want to bite his burger. Yeah, no, it's bad for him. He don't want to bite it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

We bug, like, we're really bugging that

[Big Cat]

nigga that he's like, ah. You see what I'm saying? That nigga started tweaking a little bit.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He knows. Start shaking. See what I'm saying? He knows everything that's in burger in that.

[Big Cat]

85% homeless.

[Shug White]

Start sweating. 85% homeless is correct.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's true, though. Yeah, it is.

[Big Cat]

Like, damn, where are these people going?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

McDonald's. In the McNugget. In the McNugget.

[Big Cat]

93 served, 10 piece mchuman. And that's why he don't want to bite.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I believe that wholeheartedly.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. Oh, for sure, man. Look, bruh, you can tell by the way it make you feel after you eat. I remember like. Like 4 years ago on the road, I was driving, and I was like, man, I ain't had McDonald's in a long time. And I remember I got me like, a quarter pounder. And like 30 minutes later, I was like, that's why, nigga. I feel weird.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Big Cat]

I feel weird. Food shouldn't make you feel weird. Like this, nigga. I feel like I'm picking up on the traits of several people right now, making me schizophrenic.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm hearing thoughts right now.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, these ain't my thoughts.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

They used to be so good. Back in the day, though, McDonald's money

[Big Cat]

was a real thing. You know what I'm saying? Monopoly, McDonald's, they had that popping. They was all perfect.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, yeah.

[Big Cat]

Over. Over 50 billion served. Yeah. After a while, like, where we getting all this beef from?

[Shug White]

Too many cows.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It ain't that many cows.

[Big Cat]

Ain't that many cows. Last. Last thing before you go. I. I remember when the deal was announced, the Iheart deal for Black Effect. How does that feel? Just personally, does it feel exploitive? I mean, I know there's an excitement around sealing that deal, but just like, charlamagne, $200 million. Like, nigga, relax. Don't tell people that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, yeah, that's how it feels. But it's also like. I guess that comes with the territory. I mean, it's not like I haven't read things like that. That about other. Other individuals.

[Big Cat]

Yeah. When you read it about somebody else, you like that's lit.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You see what I'm saying?

[Big Cat]

After you.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know, so. But. But also that's. That's also just speculation. Yeah, nobody. I never confirmed. Nobody ever confirmed that. That's spec. That's speculation now that you know.

[Big Cat]

Which mean ain't nobody confirmed.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I never said that. You know what I mean? But you see these?

[Big Cat]

You see, I just trying to get one, but a company I could be in with a strong man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But a magazine like Forbes, you know, I guess they have their ways, right? Yeah, yeah.

[Big Cat]

You know what I mean?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But yeah.

[Big Cat]

Cause they ain't never told us how much. Like you ain't never seen like Saudi oil prints just sign a $2 trillion.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes you do. Yeah, I ain't. Yeah, you see shit like that all the time. Absolutely.

[Big Cat]

I'm reading the wrong magazine.

[Shug White]

Magazine?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, I just read something other I read yesterday. The guy, I can't remember his name. He got a company called Kershaw, sold cursor for $60 billion to SpaceX. 25 year old white guy, yo. 25 year old white guy. So cur. Look it up. So Cursor, his company's called Cursor, sold it to SpaceX for $60 billion.

[Big Cat]

What do Cursor do?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's a AI company. But yeah, I see stuff like that all the time.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, these niggas finna have us out here as like real robotic.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But ain't nobody attacking him. Ain't nobody online talking to him about

[Big Cat]

capitalism that they keeping low.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Hey, look, it's not. It was everywhere. It was on my. I saw it on my algorithm.

[Big Cat]

Yes, you a CEO.

[Shug White]

CEO

[Big Cat]

algorithm. Yeah, you got the CEO algorithm, Regular people algorithm.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I saw Fortune blasted and Forbes and everything, but I was like, yo, 60 billion?

[Big Cat]

Yeah, 60 billion.

[Shug White]

I got.

[Big Cat]

I got b. Yeah, yeah, I got

[Shug White]

a thing for he.

[Big Cat]

Do he got to run the company or is he just get to get off?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I have no idea.

[Shug White]

Yo, you said why people don't attack him? I'mma tell you what. Black people have been conditioned to think there's no heaven on earth. Oo, so when they see somebody like Jay Z doing stuff.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, he's.

[Shug White]

He's giving water Nigeria. He's giving stuff in the hood. Yeah, that's cool. But how you get heaven on earth and people don't understand that. So that's why they attack people like Jay Z. That's why I attack people like Elon Musk is like, oh, well, he white.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, yeah, but they got it.

[Shug White]

How this. Get this, though?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But that's the.

[Shug White]

And I don't have it. You know what I'm saying?

[Big Cat]

This mentality of we ain't supposed.

[Shug White]

We ain't supposed to have it.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, well, and then that's.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's our problem, though. Well,

[Big Cat]

it's. It's like we said before, it's very nuanced and layered because then we got the ethical aspect of it. And you know, even with the cursor like that just cashed in on the end of Earth. Sh.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Billion dollar. And they never gave us reasonable dollars out. Ain't never gave us a blueprint. Well, this thing ain't got no bars.

[Big Cat]

That nigga make. Can I live?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Exactly, exactly. But he got $60 billion. And here's the crazy part.

[Big Cat]

Fell swoop too, boy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And nobody questions what. What did he do to get it? You know, what did he do on.

[Big Cat]

This is another alternative perspective too, right? All of the people who got something, you know, relatively like, who got them numbers like that. We know all of them in our community. Well, nothing. Like you can't name five white billionaires outside of the Big Three, outside of

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Elon and Warren Buffett and all them Bill Gates. I mean, you got the Peter Teals of the world. You got the Dude I didn't name from person that look evil. You see,

[Big Cat]

when I see that come on the phone, I'm like, bro, turn that phone off, bro. Like that right there. This. Making nanobots. Yeah, yeah, with that, bro. Bro, this. This hobby is Satanism. Like, what's up?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, for real. It's 12 billionaires in the Trump administration alone.

[Big Cat]

You see what I'm saying? And that. But. But that be my point. It's like when we succeed, it's extremely visual. And it's like, it's. It's out there. Like they put that out and it's almost too exploded. Like. Yeah, look at. You know, in comparison. Because the. The scales is tipped severely in the other direction for us. And I think also it's like. Like to big cat's point, it's that heaven on Earth shit. Like, they ain't spoke. Like, how you get that? Like what you do to get there. And so there the ethics come into question. You know, we love to throw the Illuminati out there. Oh, my God, man. See, I put out a illuminati shit on YouTube.

[Shug White]

On YouTube and went straight.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Cause I was sucking.

[Big Cat]

I was soaking it up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yo, I was the guy.

[Big Cat]

You couldn't bring a triangle around me in 2012, nigga.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Same.

[Big Cat]

You bring a triangle around me in 2012.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Same. I was watching them videos in 053 in the morning.

[Big Cat]

Got these lights on, man. It's getting dark. The devil in here.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. Not 20 years later I'm starring in those videos. I was watching them in 05 06. Like, yo, that motherfucker evil as shit. 20 years later, boom, doom, doom. The spooky music. You know what I mean? Like, what the fuck? I did that. I did what?

[Big Cat]

Huh?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

This is what I'm doing, Yo, I didn't know.

[Big Cat]

I'm gonna keep it real, bruh. Niggas don't understand how it. How. How crazy it is to be, like, on the couch playing, like, Mortal Kombat and then you open threads and like, yeah, that deontay sold his soul. Like, nigga, what?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Big Cat]

Damn, man. I receive that playing PlayStation 5. I should be on the yacht if I sell my recording live from Tulum every day. It's every day. We up south of France every day.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So far apart. And y' all independent as fuck. Y' all not signing nobody. Y' all got this out the mud like Pop and you.

[Big Cat]

And I'm gonna tell niggas how real you is. We ain't a part of the Black and fat network. That ain't stop you from with us. But you know what I mean by the like, oh, shit. He ain't fucking with us. We ain't fucking with him. It's like, you continue to show love. Yeah, but we super independent like a motherfucking. It's just. Just. It's me, Big Cat, Shug White, Suge White. You know what I'm saying? We run a trial offense in this motherfucker. We gonna keep this shit pushed for sure.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Absolutely. As y' all should. Man, listen, I love what y' all do. You know, I tune in to Grits and Eggs podcast.

[Big Cat]

Thank you.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And it's funny. I like when I see good people connect with good people. You shouted out Alex, like, Alex. Alex has been a part of some of the biggest podcasts in culture, period. You know, whether to read taxed on, you know, horrible decisions. And for her to be connecting with y' all and be co signing y', all, like, that means a lot. When Alex is like, yo, I'm fucking with Grits Eggs, I'm like, oh, okay. They on the right path.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. You know, I was. I Didn't have a manager because everybody that was trying to manage knew nothing about podcasting. Oh, they come from media. They come. Well, they come from music, they come from the film. And it's like, well, shit, what do you know about how we gonna get money in podcasting?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, no. Alex wanted.

[Big Cat]

Tell me. We're gonna figure it out. I met her. She was like, yeah, I was with Taxon. I was with the Reed. I was like, size fact. Where the paper at?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's a fact.

[Big Cat]

My fucking paper. Cause she know what to do in podcasts in the industry I'm in. That's right. You know what I mean? But, yeah, man, thank you, bro. Like, seriously, just for coming to sit down, but also for the continued support, bro.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Always, man. That ain't gonna stop.

[Big Cat]

Yeah, man. All right, well, shit, nigga.

[Shug White]

You know, I got one more thing, son. Thank you for holding me down. The Breakfast Club. When I came up there, man, cuz

[Charlamagne Tha God]

envy tried to leave me out like big ice cup. Come on, man. He don't listen to the.

[Shug White]

Try to skip over me now that.

[Big Cat]

Hey, man, where's Chair at, man? Yeah, hold me down in this. Hey, man, we got the man Charlotte McGay in the building.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

[Shug White]

I got some names on y'.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

All.

[Big Cat]

Names on y', all, man. Appreciate it, man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Thank you.

[Big Cat]

Y. Next week, bro.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I just want to rap.

[Big Cat]

Fate was on my side. Yeah,

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. They say without the proper labor, faith don't stand a chance.

[Big Cat]

I put my faith in faith and

[Charlamagne Tha God]

stand on fertile land I planted seeds Adeline Deed turning the trees before rest in peace Tease get printed to me.