Episode 166 - Karen Civil

Summary

Grits and Eggs Podcast — Episode 166: Karen Civil

Release Date: July 31, 2026
Host: Deante’ Kyle (Grits)
Guest: Karen Civil

---

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep with renowned digital marketing strategist Karen Civil, tracing her journey from a Haitian American upbringing in Brooklyn and New Jersey to defining moments in hip-hop, digital branding, and tech. The conversation is fast-moving and open, exploring Karen's philosophy on work, her behind-the-scenes stories from Dipset to Young Money and Beats by Dre, the current landscape of digital marketing, the emotional toll of the music industry, the impact of public perception, and advice for building enduring brands and platforms.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Roots, Upbringing, and Early Community (02:54–08:28)

• Karen discusses her childhood in Brooklyn (Flatbush) and Elizabeth, NJ, growing up Haitian American, and living in self-segregated Haitian communities on Jefferson Ave (02:54).
  • “All the Haitians lived on Jefferson Ave... we were, like, purposely kind of segregated growing up, but it was by choice.” — Karen (03:20)
• School experiences included attending PS181, which closed due to asbestos, leading to early dismissal and heavy parental involvement in her education (03:39).
• Reminiscing about Girl and Boy Scouts as brief, formative, bonding experiences before family prioritized academics over extracurriculars.
• Karen explains that later, as a “rich auntie,” she supports her nephew’s baseball ambitions—having realized how expensive and exclusionary the sport has become (06:31–08:25).
  • “Baseball is a very wealthy sport. The type of equipment dues you gotta take your kids to… That’s a lot. It didn’t—I'm not even the parent and it’s a lot.” — Karen (07:12)
  • “People wonder why there’s not as many Black people playing in America. It’s so expensive.” — Grits (07:34)

---

2. Becoming the ‘Architect’: Backstreet Boys, Community, and the Internet (09:00–11:57)

• Karen's entry into digital marketing began with creating Backstreet Boys fan sites in 1997, building online communities before social media existed.
  • “I love the fact that I can communicate and find things in common with people who may not necessarily look like me, but we have this connection, which is this group.” — Karen (09:23)
• Early digital savvy: leveraging AOL, running fan pages, joining Yahoo groups, and Manifesting real-world connections (e.g., meeting actor JD Williams from The Wire via a fan club she built) (19:00–19:57).
  • “Oh my God, the Internet is giving me what I want.” — Karen (19:57)
• The skill of community-building becomes the foundation for her approach to digital marketing.

---

3. Transitioning to Business: Internships, Influential Mentors, and the Hustle (11:47–14:38, 21:17–25:02)

• Interning for NYC radio legend Funkmaster Flex after losing Angie Martinez’s “Apprentice” contest—doing whatever it took and integrating herself into the show (11:47).
  • Memorable moment: “He didn’t talk to me for maybe the first four months … and then his kids started to come, and I was the babysitter. Then he was nice.” — Karen (32:55)
• Hip-hop fandom: the Backstreet Boys vs. NSYNC debate and how Karen’s taste was shaped by early 2000s pop (12:21–14:38).
• Turning digital marketing from a hobby into a business—long before social metrics, simply by intuition, experimenting with post timing and content (“I was forecasting… before you even think of the metrics.” — Karen, 22:50).

---

4. Rise in the Industry: Digital Marketing Pioneering (17:07–39:03)

• Insights on how social media communities were formed and leveraged before MySpace, including strategic moderation and content curation.
• Start of ‘Always Civil’ marketing: Launching WeezyThanksYou.com for Lil Wayne during his incarceration, setting world records and landing Karen MTV’s MVP of the Year. This breakthrough led to working for Beats by Dre (37:14–39:03).
  • “For him to give me a shot, I said, I gotta hit this out the fucking park. And that’s exactly what I did.” — Karen (37:37)
• She describes the development of brand, strategy, and audience engagement, moving from fandom to enterprise.

---

5. Creativity, Technology, & Consumerism in Music (14:31–16:30, 28:41–30:25)

• Discussion of generational shifts: From boy band era to the rise of AI in music creation, the importance of authenticity, and the threat to songwriters (14:31–17:17).
  • “Let artists be artists, because that’s where we get the best thing from.” — Grits (15:38)
• Consumer society: How modern culture sells back community and attention (28:41–30:25).
  • “America is built on consumerism... everything is literally bought and sold to us, but now it’s just behind a paywall.” — Karen (28:48)
• The proliferation of apps and subscriptions, and the challenges of digital overload.

---

6. Behind the Scenes: Hip-Hop Culture, Industry Lessons, and Artist Development (32:39–55:37)

• Working with Dipset’s Duke Da God, Jim Jones, and a young A$AP Yams—her exposure to the intersections of creativity, hustle, and strategic thinking in the New York rap scene (43:37–45:35).
• She recounts early digital marketing with Young Money, clarifying her role in the era of Lil Wayne, Drake, Nicki Minaj, and Tyga, and how she harnessed online community for talent (39:25–41:33).
  • “It takes those 10, 15 years to get to that point—turning a hobby into my career.” — Karen (38:48)
• Describes the distinction between artists who are “culturally important” and those who fade—attributing longevity to core values, professionalism, and emotional intelligence (48:21–50:15).
• Difficulties working with perfectionist/diva artists and how her business partner Steve Carless balances the process (50:28–51:16).
• Stories about working with Pusha T and artists who stay true to themselves.
  • “He sees the goal and that’s just what it is... I don’t care.” — Karen (52:22–53:28)

---

7. Working at Beats by Dre: Building a Cultural Product (55:37–58:21, 86:10–88:11)

• Karen was among the earliest employees at Beats by Dre, helping define its hip-hop branding and content strategy—arranging artist visits, content creation, and adapting to the Apple acquisition.
  • “They hired me for social media, but they didn’t have a lot of content... I would go out and be the content creator.” — Karen (55:45)
• Compares Beats’ cultural impact to potential contenders (e.g., Snoop’s branding, Rihanna’s Fenty, Jay-Z’s Roc Nation), calling Dre/Beats a “one of one” product that transcended music into lifestyle and fitness (86:10–88:11).

---

8. Gender, Authenticity, and Industry Pressure (60:14–63:35, 81:39–84:29)

• Karen details the double standards faced by women in the industry—being mislabeled or underestimated, and the necessity of developing a “don’t give a fuck” mindset.
  • “Treat me with the same regard you would treat your male counterpart... I’ve now built in why I kept stressing the like, flex, don’t give a fuck. I don’t give a fuck.” — Karen (60:14–62:17)
• Handling public scrutiny, online criticism, and the toll of being both a person and a “product” in entertainment.
  • “People are allowed to have their opinions... These [negative] opinions are off a perceived POV, a reflection of a person they think they know off of the Internet. So do not take this personal.” — Karen (82:09)

---

9. Loss, Grief, and Enduring Relationships (65:25–76:56)

• Emotional segment revisiting her relationship with Nipsey Hussle. Karen recalls their first meeting (facilitated by B.Dot), their collaborative synergy, and the pain/grief of losing industry friends like Nipsey and Mac Miller (65:33–73:49).
  • “This is somebody who poured into a lot of people, but then also happy because of the lasting impression, the groundwork that he left, that’s continuing to be done… death, in a sense… changes you.” — Karen (71:56–73:07)
• The balance between professional investment, personal family, and coping with loss in a highly public, often insensitive industry.

---

10. Modern Marketing, Brand Building, and Practical Advice (84:29–92:13)

• Current projects: Running Always Civil, leading marketing for talent like Teyana Taylor, YG, Shador, and label work with Max B, who is up for BET nominations and making a major comeback (84:35–85:44).
  • “I’ve known Max since the dipset days... and made everything make sense for when he came home.” — Karen (85:06)
• Karen consults Grits on expanding his brand: leveraging show title (“Grits and Eggs”) for natural partnerships (Kellogg’s, Waffle House, Nike, Dove, Meta), and staying authentic while opening doors for strategic advertising and collaborations (89:10–91:47).
  • “There’s ways to do certain synergies and I think that are just very easy, that ingrains, that doesn’t take you out of your comfort zone and that just still flows... comfortably.” — Karen (89:32)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On childhood in Haitian American enclaves:
  • “We were, like, purposely kind of segregated growing up, but it was by choice. So all the Haitians lived on Jefferson Ave.” — Karen (03:20)
• On industry pressure and not letting criticism crush you:
  • “You can either be a bitch, or you can get an autoimmune disease.” — Grits paraphrasing a viral business TikTok (63:10)
  • “I’m not holding onto that. I’d rather be an asshole, bruh.” — Grits (63:27)
• On career evolution:
  • “It takes those 10, 15 years… honing and perfecting it to get to that point of turning a hobby into my career.” — Karen (38:53)
• On digital product innovation:
  • “I don’t know if there has been a product [from hip hop] like Beats by Dre… That’s one of one.” — Grits (86:49)
• On keeping your center through loss and pressure:
  • “Now grief is just a part of me… I’m going to have some good days, I’m going to have some bad days, and that’s okay.” — Karen (73:07)

---

Selected Timestamps for Important Segments

• Karen on early life & family’s focus on education: 02:54–05:47
• Building fan communities & meeting idols via the Internet: 09:23–11:57, 19:00–20:30
• From intern to industry player (Funk Flex to Dipset): 32:39–45:35
• Launching WeezyThanksYou & Always Civil: 37:14–39:25
• Insights on building digital brands & measuring engagement pre-analytics: 21:17–23:45
• Handling divisive public narratives & criticism: 60:14–63:16, 81:39–84:29
• Stories from Beats by Dre: 55:37–58:21, 86:10–88:11
• Coping with loss (Nipsey Hussle & Mac Miller): 65:25–76:56
• Marketing advice for Grits and Eggs Podcast: 89:10–91:47

---

Tone and Style

The conversation is candid, humorous, and insightful, blending personal stories, unfiltered industry takes, cultural critique, and practical branding wisdom. Karen’s tone is warm and real, often affirming, never shying from hard truths. Grits keeps the discussion flowing with perceptive questions and genuineness—his own experience as a creator adds depth to the interview’s business and emotional insights.

---

Episode Takeaways

• Build community first: Karen’s career grew from genuine connection and shared interests—this approach led her from fan clubs to major global platforms.
• Stay authentic, adapt, and trust your intuition: Whether forecasting best post times or knowing when to walk away, Karen emphasizes self-awareness and adaptability.
• Protect your peace: In a world of public scrutiny and hyper-consumption, develop a resilient mindset, nurture your mental health, and let your work speak for itself.
• Champion what matters: Find purpose in your projects, balance business with personal values, and never be afraid to say no.
• Strategic branding means leveraging identity: The right partnerships, marketing moves, and platforms start with clarity about what makes your story unique.

---

“I don’t give a fuck. I’m coming in being myself, trying to get the situation… Let’s answer the question. Whatever. Let’s get to it. Treat me with the same regard you would treat your male counterpart... That’s not for me to hold.”
— Karen Civil (61:30)

---

Transcript

[Karen Civil]

This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace and there it was. The bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for from a browse to a bike ride this summer. Find more on Facebook

[Grits]

now. Y' all know I'm always looking for things that actually make life easier and this is one of them. One thing I wish I understood sooner was how much money people lose paying unnecessary bank fees, monthly fees and overdraft fees. That all adds up. That's why I like what Chime is doing. They're changing the way people bank with fee free banking that's built for everyday people, not just the 1%. If you get paid through direct deposit, you unlock the most rewarding way to bank. With Chime, members can benefit from up to $1,150 in annual rewards and fee free. You can earn 5% cash back in a category of your choice like gas or groceries. Your Savings can earn 3.75% APY, which is nine times higher than the national average. You can even get access to premium travel Perks. And with MyPay, eligible members can access up to $500 of their pay before payday. Plus SpotMe lets eligible members overdraft up to $200 fee free. Real talk. My younger self would have definitely benefited from something like this. And my younger self did benefit from this. Chime is not only smarter banking, it's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. Head to chime.com grits that's chime.com grits it only takes a few minutes to sign up.

[Karen Civil]

Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services for MyPay and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Optional products and services may have fees or charges. Stated annual percentage yield on cash back for Chime prime only. No minimum balance required. For more information on APY, my pay spot me and travel perks go to chime.com disclosures hear that?

[Grits]

That's now crispy and McCrispy strips meeting creamy Caesar sauce sounds extra crispy caesar sauce at McDonald's for a limited time Ba da ba ba ba. Yayo Woke up in the morning and to God be the glory Thankful for another day to tell my story Put my opin in the universe and let them orbit I'm from the dirty south with a dirty mouth might need orbit Miss things things on me like a nigga Norbit had to refuse them cause my bitch no rest Fusion she gorgeous As I dab my sons up and kiss my daughter forehead Tell them we gon get this money to my pockets Morbid. Remember living in apartments now we playing mortgage. Did you. You grew up, but you Haitian American. You grew up in America?

[Karen Civil]

I grew up here. I grew up. I was born, raised everything here.

[Grits]

First gender? Yes. Yeah. Where you. Where you grew up at?

[Karen Civil]

Brooklyn. Raised in Jersey. Elizabeth, New Jersey.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah. Are you from Elizabeth? Oh, who? I say, like I know them. Oh, probably.

[Grits]

No, they can't fault though, huh?

[Karen Civil]

Oh, where? What? Where they from? Jefferson Ave. Yeah, ask. It gotta be Jefferson Ave. So we were, like, purposely kind of segregated growing up, but it was by choice. So all the Haitians lived on Jefferson Ave. Yeah.

[Grits]

Where you lived at in Brooklyn?

[Karen Civil]

Flatbush, New York.

[Grits]

Of course. Of course.

[Karen Civil]

And then our school, we were. We went to PS181 and it had asbestos, so it closed. And they had us do boys and Girl Scouts. Yeah, yeah. We did it for like a month. And you know, you coming home at 12 o', clock. My parents is like, well, what's your homework? I'm like, I built a fire in the back.

[Grits]

You feel me?

[Karen Civil]

Yeah. Like, so then we came home one day and they were like, yeah, we're moving. So they purposely bought a house in Jersey because of the school system and everything that was happening. So they moved us to Jersey before they even house closed. All they needed was the address. And the next day we woke up at like 5am they were like, get up. And they were taking us to school in Jersey.

[Grits]

That's crazy. So then it just made more sense to move to Jersey.

[Karen Civil]

I mean, they were closing on the house. They were like, at this point, yeah, we gotta figure something out because y' all not doing boys and Girl Scouts till 12:30.

[Grits]

Yeah. That's crazy. That's an early day too. That's like, damn. Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

Like, you get out, you're still full of energy.

[Grits]

Coming home, they're like, yeah, no, I did Boy scouts for like three months. It was lit.

[Karen Civil]

But why 90 days?

[Grits]

It was just. I got cause. So, like, it's one of them things. Like, we was fresh in, so it was like they had all this shit going. We did like the little roller derby car. We did the outdoor stuff. We went on a camping trip. And then after that, it just became boring, like, tying Knots and shit.

[Karen Civil]

I was like, oh, just regular maintenance. Regular. Just everyday stuff.

[Grits]

Yeah. But when I first started, it was like all these activities back to back. And my dad was like, yeah, that's not how it goes. He said, you just came in at the right time. I was like, yeah, I'm cool. I just go back to playing baseball. I'm straight on this. But yeah, it was cool while it lasted. Like, I like the camping and all that.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah, it was cool.

[Grits]

It was like a bonding thing for me and my pops. Yeah, he ain't really rock with it too much.

[Karen Civil]

No, I liked it. I mean, I liked it a lot. And I would come home and like, show my parents, but they were like, yeah, you know, they Asian. They looking like, this is not math homework.

[Grits]

Yeah, we looking for education.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah, they're like, you building campfires. This has nothing to do with in New York.

[Grits]

Yeah, they're like, this has great outdoors in New York.

[Karen Civil]

Like, nothing to do with anything. But I'd be like, look, look in the backyard. I built a fire. My mom be like, yeah, we don't care.

[Grits]

Yeah, man. My little sister stuck with it, like with the girl scout thing.

[Karen Civil]

So.

[Grits]

But then, like, it was kind usually like low key, get a little jealous. Cause like, she started getting mad pins

[Karen Civil]

and like all the patches.

[Grits]

Yeah. I was like, damn, I should have stuck with this.

[Karen Civil]

But nah, on your true Beverly Hills, I mean, you could have.

[Grits]

I was all baseball, though. I love baseball.

[Karen Civil]

Do you still play?

[Grits]

Nah, I go to the bat and catch every now and then. That was pretty fun.

[Karen Civil]

Okay, so my nephew's really good in like, baseball. So I'll sign up when they do like the celebrity games. So I'll always sign up for the celebrity games. I'll do the Juneteenth when LeBron and them used to do it for his platform. And then the Dodgers will have one because you get all this. I don't know how to play, but you get all this equipment. That's so amazing.

[Grits]

Oh, that's hard.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah. And then that I'd pass on to my nephew and we wear the same size, so his mom would be so happy. I'm like, twi. I got a bag.

[Grits]

Yeah. And like baseball equipment, it's become an equipment sport where it's like super expensive.

[Karen Civil]

I did not realize. No, no, no, no, no. That is a very wealthy sport. Like, baseball is a very wealthy sport. The type of equipment dues you got to take your kids to certain things like practices, away games, like to a point. Yeah, that's a lot. It didn't I'm not even the parent. I'm not the parent. And I just be like, oh, this is a lot.

[Grits]

Yeah. People wonder why, like, there's not as many black people playing in America. It's like, it's so expensive.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

And then it used to be, though, when I was a kid, it was, like, relatively cheap.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

Like, bats was, like, 60 bucks bats. Now they be, like, 250, 300 always. They be crazy.

[Karen Civil]

It's totally different now. But, like, the one thing I am really happy about is, like, I don't necessarily have kids, but I want to be a community, which I continue to be for, like, my friends who have kids for that exact reason. So if it ever gets to a point where he's like, this bat is 200 something dollars, it's like, okay, I can get it as opposed to. I'll get it as opposed to bothering your mom. So I'll sign up for. To play in the baseball game if I could get all of the equipment and all of the things to cut her a break for, you know, to cut her a break for some time.

[Grits]

That's real.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

You say you like the rich auntie.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah. The one you can ask for auntie. I like to say, yeah. Cause I'm definitely gonna say yes.

[Grits]

A brief introduction. You are the architect.

[Karen Civil]

Hi, y'. All.

[Grits]

This is Karen. Civil.

[Karen Civil]

Hi.

[Grits]

If you don't know now, you know, I think the most interesting thing when I first. When you go do your notes and you want to see, like, what is the thing that said it says American Digital Marketing Maven. Yeah, I said, shit. Yeah. They don't just toss maven around like that.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

But I think initially in your position, you're known for, like, who you represent. You're known for the talent that you work for. You known for, like, your skill set being applied to talent.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

But how does your story start before the people you're connected to?

[Karen Civil]

Oh, so I was a big Backstreet Boy fan. Right. And I know that's so different being a girl in Jersey, but at the time when you had your AOL disc and you're on the Internet, I am talking to people all across the globe, all across the US Who I had things in common with. And at the time, I remember my brother came home with this teen People magazine, and me and my mom shared a bathroom, and she used to listen to 106.7, and they used to continuously play the song I'll Never Break youk Heart, which made me like, who is this group? And then figuring out who they were. My brother gave me the magazine. And then from there, the AOL disc, it kind of was history for me where I was like, I love the fact that I can communicate and find things in common with people who may not necessarily look like me, but we have this connection, which is this group. So it really started there. I started a fan site in, like, 1997. That's how I old. So it's like I started a fan site there, and it really just started from there. Just the love of the music. Being on the Internet, I came across the Apprentice. This was at the time where Donald Trump was loved, like, revered by all of America for the Apprentice.

[Grits]

Right.

[Karen Civil]

So at the time, Angie Martinez had a contest called the Apprentice. It was part two, the first season. She picked a gentleman by the name of Mike. So she was doing season two. I wrote a heartfelt message, and I had to get off the computer because, you know, doll up in case she called. I was like, let me. Let me ta, ta, ta do a little looking around. And then maybe like 30 minutes later, her intern Mike called and was like, yeah, she likes you. If we can have you come to New York. It went from 100 to 30 to 15. I made the top 10 to three. She didn't pick me, but Flex chose me for his show instead, to be his intern. And really, that's all it took, really. I will always say it started with Flex. I, like, did everything possible, not just necessarily just being an intern, of just integrating myself into that show and getting questions together. If you need me to get your vinyls going, to go get their food, order whatever was necessary to just show that it was a part of that show and that, you know, after the apprenticeship was over, they still kept me.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

So went from there to then Dipset to then Karen Civil dot com, and then eventually beats by Dre and then continued on.

[Grits]

Yeah, yeah, you. That's like the real, like, that's the hustle, like, early entertainment industry. I started out as an intern. I do whatever it takes to, like, make sure that I could secure this position. Cause, I mean, you fell in love with music and entertainment. Yeah, I ain't gonna hold you. Backstreet Boys was my shit.

[Karen Civil]

Thank you. See, you know what?

[Grits]

Thank you. Nah, N be hating.

[Karen Civil]

I'm trying to talk this NSync bitch.

[Grits]

Nah, nah, I ain't gonna hold it.

[Karen Civil]

And I'm like, look, I get it. Justin Timberlake. But Backstreet Boys, I'm like, they was. They got music with Foxy Brown. They was there first. They Was there first, then NSYNC king, man.

[Grits]

That I wanted.

[Karen Civil]

They went black the first week when

[Grits]

that I wanted that way dropped.

[Karen Civil]

Thank you.

[Grits]

When that hit trl, so thank you. Come on, man. You couldn't tell me shit.

[Karen Civil]

Who's your favorite member? Do you have one?

[Grits]

Of course. Like, growing up, it's like, because of NSync, the blonde hair, blue eye, you go towards me.

[Karen Civil]

Nick Carter.

[Grits]

Yeah, the dude. That was the Brian dude. Brian with the chiseled jaw and shit. He was my guy.

[Karen Civil]

Okay. So I liked Brian growing up, too. I had the biggest crush. But then I realized, like, as I got older, watching the videos, I've now reverted. Wait, it was Brian and AJ A mix? Because you gotta love the bad boy.

[Grits]

Oh, with the one with the locs?

[Karen Civil]

Yeah, with the not locks?

[Grits]

No, no, no, no.

[Karen Civil]

That's. That's instinct, Chris.

[Grits]

No, that is NSync. That was a sick look.

[Karen Civil]

But this the one with the tattoos and the little extras. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Grits]

Okay. I got you, I got you.

[Karen Civil]

So it was between them, but as I got older, it's AJ because if you go back and look, AJ is the one that they put with the black girl, like, the token black girl in every video. So I was like, oh, he's repping for us. So now I gotta.

[Grits]

Yeah, you fucking with it.

[Karen Civil]

I'm like, come here, baby.

[Grits]

I love you, man. That man. We'll never be able to, like, get those moments of, like, that kind of music back that, like, this works. Let's find the best. Like, boy bands work. Cause, like, R and B is popping. So you get the big R and B groups, and it's like, okay, what's the pop version of that? It's NSync. It's Best Dream Boys. It's 98 Degrees. It's all that shit. But it's like these motherfuckers making real pop hits. Yeah, they was tearing TRL up. Same thing with, like, you get Britney Spears, then you get Christina Aguilera. You get.

[Karen Civil]

Because it was divided categories then, Now a lot of things are infused and integrated where. I mean, it's a little bit tricky. But, yeah, back then, you got Backstreet Boys, NSync, 98 degrees, you got all these variations of them. But it's unfortunate now. Cause, like, now we have AI, we have Sono, we have all these, like, new things that are coming where now. Yeah. I'll listen to an AI song that'll come up on because TikTok makes it very prevalent. But you'll think you're looking At a normal person. Like, it could be you singing. I'm like, oh, okay. This person's dope and they're AI. But I'm now realizing when I'm listening to certain things, I'm like, oh, man, this new. They use her a lot. Oh, my gosh. I'm having a brain freeze. She's on Housewives.

[Grits]

Mm. You miss me with that? No.

[Karen Civil]

That's why you no country singer. She's amazing. I'm having a break.

[Grits]

Real Housewives.

[Karen Civil]

K. Michelle. Excuse me? K. Michelle. Like, I'm listening. I'm like, this sound like K. Michelle. So it's like they're making. Or this sounds like sza. So it's like they're making that, but it's not a person.

[Grits]

It's not like it's strange. I don't like it. I don't like. I like AI. Like, use it for business. Use it for crunching numbers. Use it for making things more efficient. Don't use it for art. Let artists be artists, because that's where we get the best thing from.

[Karen Civil]

It's getting tricky. Where I do wanna see? We need to have a deep dive in conversation, even behind the people. Cause we say, like, let musicians make art. But who is the one leading this AI? Like the person behind this. You know, obviously we want everyone to eat, make money, but like, who is this person? Does this person work in music? Are they a random person? Like, just what's starting to. Who gets to pick and choose who gets to have AI? Like, to become an artist? I think there needs to be some sort of like, distinction or something there. Because somebody can't just wake up and be like, okay, I'm gonna create the next Eminem, right?

[Grits]

And then use. Use like, like download all of his

[Karen Civil]

old thing and just do it very quickly.

[Grits]

And all it is doing is just regurgitating cadence. Yeah, yeah. And you know, cadence, flow, beat selection, wooty woo woo. And you know, honestly, the backbone of like music throughout the 90s and up until even now, if we talk about pop and R and B is the songwriter is the person who's like, you know, they behind the scenes, they not really as known, but they man churning out hits. Like, even if they do have some commercial success as a solo act for the most part, it's like they in the background getting the money.

[Karen Civil]

And what does that look like for them now? Cause somebody can take copy their song from genius and move it over and give me something similar. Give me a hit like this.

[Grits]

Yeah, that sucks.

[Karen Civil]

And they're the ones unfortunately, taking a hit on this. Yeah, yeah.

[Grits]

And that's the way, like, people's eating like that, you know, it's like some of the best verses was just the songwriters.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

Is that new song? Is that. Have you heard that new song? I don't know the guy's name, but it sound like a. That's swiping cards and stacking chips.

[Karen Civil]

So he says he wrote the song. I want to give him the benefit of the Doubt. He said he wrote the song and he's just using, like that voice thing over. So I want to give him the benefit. He said he wrote it. I mean, I saw him perform it. Yeah.

[Grits]

I mean, people perform songs they ain't write all the time.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah, No, I mean, I saw him perform it and it didn't.

[Grits]

It don't hit.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah, it.

[Grits]

Well, because it's like the energy of the song is like a Dawn FM, late 80s, like, kind of that.

[Karen Civil]

I get that. But we still gotta be able to perform the songs. We still gotta be out. We still like. Cause that's the whole premise of it. Even back then in the 80s, they still gave us a performance.

[Grits]

Yes.

[Karen Civil]

You still need to be out, like, promoting this.

[Grits]

And his energy in person doesn't match the energy of the song, which is odd.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

Yeah. So going. You making like a fan page in 97 is a big deal. Because this is like. This is how, like, online communities are built around a shared love.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

And this is. This predates social media. So you being able to turn that same, like, just passion into, like, digital marketing before it was even a thing. How. How did you come about, like, what did you see in social media that other people didn't see? Even as, like, early as MySpace.

[Karen Civil]

Okay. So even before MySpace, it used to be like, Yahoo. Used to have a Yahoo group. And I was a big fan, you know, the Wire. So I was a big fan of the Wire. So the Wire was filmed Baltimore. Baltimore's right next to Jersey. A lot of those actors were from Jersey. The one I happened to like was Bodhi JD Williams. I said, man, me and him need to date. Like, I was his biggest fan. And I was like, I'm gonna figure out how me and him is going to connect. I created a Yahoo fan club for him. Created a fan club, did the whole nine. Somebody on his team reached out to me and was like, yeah, he's really excited. Because, you know, at this time, male black actors, they don't have things like this.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

So he end up taking me out. Little did he know it was my 18th birthday, and he ended up taking me out to IHOP. And, like, he just wanted to meet the person who made his site. And I was so in shock. I was like, oh, my God, it actually happened.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

Oh, my God, the Internet is giving me what I want. I did not even order anything. I was just, like, in shock, sitting there like, oh, my God, I can't believe I met J.D. williams. He had his red new BMW at the time still. We took a picture at the end. He dropped me off, but it was, like, really cool. And that was honestly the reason why. Yeah, it was that. Then I did the Backstreet Boy one and I was like, yeah, I want to meet them too. So I was like, let's keep this thing going if it's getting me out of my community. I entered, I don't know if you remember, MTV fanatic.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah. Unfortunately, they picked a girl from Detroit, but still was able to connect through Jive Jive Records, their label at the time. Like, Just saw all the work and stuff that I was doing into the website and things like that. But, yeah, it's just a love of the Internet.

[Grits]

Yeah. And. And how do you. What is the point. What's the turning point where you say, okay, like, this works, but this works for me on a personal level. Right. Like, these are. These are my personal interests. And I'm creating these communities around these things to the point where I am, like, manifesting meeting my favorite actor. And then how do you turn this into, like, oh, this could be. Apply it to business. We can formulate digital marketing from this.

[Karen Civil]

This all started out as a hobby and then eventually transitioned into like a business maybe eight, 10 years later. For me, it was literally just a hobby. A great thing for me to have something to do outside of, you know, having a job, being at home with my family or going to school. There's a connection of people, things that I have in common with. And then eventually, through hits and misses of things working, I'm like, okay, I like to do it this way. This seems to work. My audience is engaging with it. I would do a lot of trial and error. Okay, I need to post. It seems when I post Tuesday between 3 and 5pm, you know, before we knew what metrics were. I seem to be more engaged, but this is okay. I know my audience comes out at School at 3pm they can probably be on for one hour. So I have to post Thursday at 5pm it's better to post on the weekends because everyone's off and they get more Internet time. So these are the things, like the way I started processing stuff, especially get people to come to, like, my site and then taking it from there, which I realize is marketing business strategy and stuff like that I eventually encompassed over into having my, my marketing and branding company. Always civil.

[Grits]

So you just, it's just like a knack because of what you loved. I turned on you, understood metrics just off of like, I want this engagement. So like, what works best for engagement instead of it being like a, like a physical metric that you can like measure. It's like you just doing this off of trial and error.

[Karen Civil]

I was forecasting. I basically was forecasting and just like figuring it out before you even think of the metrics and the things. Cause this is. I'm like, look, it's a hundred other sites. What can I do to make mine stand apart? Okay. I gotta make sure if I get 10 bucks for my allowance, I'm running to get the magazine so I can cut it up, print it, get the pictures up and become a literal. I want to become a literal library where you can find all the information possible. Screen it, put it up, everything is possible. And that worked like. And I would put it up updates on Saturday because I knew as soon as they get up, this is their day off. Like, you treat it like a newspaper.

[Grits]

Yeah, for sure.

[Karen Civil]

You know, it's like this day off. And they would get excited like, yeah, Karen did updates where somebody may have done it on Monday. They're like, hey, I did updates, babes. We were in school, we're not paying attention. Life has happened. We have swim, I'm in basketball. Like, we have life outside of this.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

So the best time is like, I would just work it around who I was, my schedule, just kind of knowing just my friends and working around there.

[Grits]

Yeah. But yeah, yeah, that's. I mean, that's fucking brilliant, to be honest, because it's like, it's similar to the same way that I approach. Like my come up on TikTok was just from my approach as a consumer.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

So what I like, what I don't like, what I'm the most attracted to. And then like how to stay out of a box. Because what you notice is like, people were pushing this niche be niche. So because I was making all of my content in my truck at work, I was like, I'm never gonna talk about trucking.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

Because everybody that's in a truck is always talking about trucking.

[Karen Civil]

Makes sense.

[Grits]

And they don't have any depth. And if they try to steer out of it what's the thing people gonna say, stick to trucking, bro.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

So I was like, okay, I wouldn't. I just am. This is just the vehicle I'm in. I will never talk about trucking. And then it's like, now it's like people are taking an interest in me and I just so happen to drive trucks.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

And like, I try to take that with, like, even the idea of just getting a podcast was like, I can't just be a dude making TikTok videos.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

Because after a while, then it's just like, you just wanted to talking heads on social media that just talk about every little trending thing. Every time something happens, you gotta have an input. It's like, I wanna focus on, like, the things that I'm really interested in and then turn this into an entire show. And then I get to come sit down with fucking Karen Silva and I'm lit.

[Karen Civil]

You get to create, I think, for so long, even for myself. Cause I get 75% of the time, people like, I don't know what you do. I'm like, why are you so focused on a title? Like, I'm my own CEO, I have my own company. I'd be like, hey, I have my own company. Cause at this point. Cause to me, titles can be given. Same way they can be given, they can be taken away.

[Grits]

Bingo.

[Karen Civil]

So it's like, I love the way that you said it. I don't. You know, I tell people, like, you don't have to worry about the title. Oh, I'm a tiktoker. I'm a this, I'm a that. I'm somebody who is in the space. I'm creating, I'm doing things my way and just making it work.

[Grits]

I tell people. Only thing I tell people, I own a media company.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah, that's it. It's like, now, yes, I own my own marketing and branding company. But it comes to a point, like, what is it exactly that you do? I'm like, a lot.

[Grits]

Yeah. But everything, like, any commercial that you've ever seen is what you do. Like, it's like, that is marketing. That is. That is actually initially what I was going to go to school for, because I was so interested in illustration. And my teacher was like, well, you could go to scad. But she was like, but then, like, what's the career?

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

And she was. And then she was like, you think about it. Like, she thinks about it like, everything is art.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

So the stop sign is art. Somebody had to, like, make sure that the octagon is applied to that signal. Like it means stop.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

And she was like, that's art. That's just creativity. You figure out how to like advertise for people. But then I just didn't.

[Karen Civil]

You know, I'll never forget Nipsey. One of the conversations I had with him, super insightful, is we went into Target, right. And he was just like, I forget the gentleman's name, but he told me the architect, like the company that built Target, he was like, you know, it's like the same people from Apple and explaining to me why these are the impulse items, why they have these things in the front. He's like, they have these things in the front because. Da, da, da, da. This is why the shelf is here. But even just going into that conversation into like the build out for like Marathon and the Smart Store and things like that. So it's even just agreeing to what you said, walking into any space and just people not realizing there's branding and marketing goes into everything.

[Grits]

Yes.

[Karen Civil]

And him even saying that now every time I walk into a Target, I was like, oh, yes. Impulse items, because they do it because they want you to spend. You can't leave at least without spending 7 to $15.

[Grits]

Yes.

[Karen Civil]

So it's like we're going to get you with this little maze stuff in the front that. That adds up the $5 before you even get to where you need to. And then when you're leaving, the additional impulse items, the gums, the little things, the. That you may have forgotten.

[Grits]

The magazine. The magazine, the candies, the.

[Karen Civil]

Yep. That are all stationed there for you.

[Grits]

And the things that like, they jump. They create cravings. Right. So even the intelligent design of a supermarket, what are the things that people need? Eggs, milk. Like those are the needs. It's like those are the things that you're constantly replenishing. Put those way in the back.

[Karen Civil]

Yep.

[Grits]

So you're forced to walk around, walking

[Karen Civil]

ships, walk through the thing. Let's put the meat here to have you. Yep.

[Grits]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like. I mean, it's genius. For real. Like from a business perspective. And then for most people, it's like they view it as like predatory, but it's like it works.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah. But I like to tell. I like to remind people. Not tell people, but remind people. America is built on consumerism.

[Grits]

It is.

[Karen Civil]

That's all America is, capitalism. So when people are like, oh, I'm like, everything. Everything is literally bought and sold to us. But now it's just behind a paywall.

[Grits]

Yeah. And then now the Biggest consumption is it's about your attention. So we in the attention.

[Karen Civil]

It's literally behind a paywall. And then the other thing is they're selling community back to us, which was once free. So if I want to go to the park, $5 for the run club. If I want to go do xyz, you just. If I want to finish reading about something that's happening, everything is just paywall.

[Grits]

Yeah, yeah, me and I was just talking to Big Head about this the other day, like, just researching stuff, like, the way that I do. I can't even utilize the news outlet without, like, subscribing or becoming like a monthly member. Woody. Woo, woo. It's like, you know, AP News I like, but some people go into, like, a lot more depth. And then there's certain, like, journalists that I like, but it's like, yeah, they behind a paywall. So that's like.

[Karen Civil]

And then the journalists that you did love are no longer with the publications. Now it's like, I'm like, subscribed to, like 15 different journalists substack. It's crazy because I wanted to read the one thing, but I'm like, now I gotta.

[Grits]

You would kill it on something with all this stuff, you know, I would

[Karen Civil]

think so, but I'm like, yeah, maybe so.

[Grits]

It's another thing, though, you know, it's just.

[Karen Civil]

I'm like, nah, I got one more app. Yeah, it's. This is one thing that's been driving me crazy. The stadiums. Each stadium has their own app. I know. I just. That is fucking annoying. So think. I go to Philly Stadium. I need to download the app. I go to Rams Stadium, I need to download the app. Like, before, it used to just be like one NFL app, one NBA app. Like, it's an app for everything.

[Grits]

Yeah, to a point.

[Karen Civil]

It drives me crazy.

[Grits]

Yeah. Everything is branched off into its own.

[Karen Civil]

No, like, I don't want an app.

[Grits]

There needs to be centralized things around

[Karen Civil]

store has an app. Like, everything. I'm paying a subscription. Like, there's a subscription for everything.

[Grits]

They had a. Somebody showed.

[Karen Civil]

Like, it's getting a little scary, though.

[Grits]

It's weird because it's like they have like a toaster and it has, like, an app that you can use.

[Karen Civil]

Yes, like my toaster, my fridge, my car. It's getting to a point. I'm like, I could have swore. What was that Disney film where, like, the Smart House. That's what it's starting to give me, like, now. Especially when we had the fires out here and, like, we had no power Everything is built off of, like, apps.

[Grits]

Yeah. So if they agree. If there's.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah. So now it's like everybody. And they're telling you, evacuate. I'm not. Like, everybody is just sitting ducks with, like. It's just crazy.

[Grits]

Yeah. You've experienced some of those, like, fires and stuff out there.

[Karen Civil]

Oh, that was. That was in itself was just different to a cause. It wasn't just one fire. It was like a culmination of different ones that at a point, it felt like people were just starting. So the one near me, somebody was riding on a bike and flicked it off and started. But it had me evacuated for two weeks. But in the same process, it's just. I'm from the East Coast. My family doesn't live here. So it's like, you think about, yes, I have to evacuate. But in that process, what exactly do you grab? Like, am I grabbing my computer? Am I really working during this time?

[Grits]

Right.

[Karen Civil]

Like, yes, I'm a grab. You know, you grab your clothes. You're like, it was just a very unfortunate situation. I'm like, it was like, the worst two weeks ever. But then the process of, like, the cleanup and just everything else. But then I know people who've gotten it worse. So I try to just keep the empathy and just the respect towards there

[Grits]

and just like, all right, just some people lost everything.

[Karen Civil]

They lost it all, lives included. But it's just such an unfortunate situation.

[Grits]

Let's dial back a little bit to Funk Flex. Like, what is that? I know what you said, like, your initial role there, but what is the day to day working for Funk Flex? And is this Funk Flex, like, when Otis drops Funk Flex, like, he's breaking records?

[Karen Civil]

He's still that Funk Flex that. I'll be honest. He didn't really talk. He didn't really talk to me. It was like Big Dennis and Tat. He didn't talk to me for maybe, like, the first four months. Cause he was, okay, go sit out there. And then his kids started to come, and I was the babysitter. Then he was nice. Then I started to work my way to building conversation and everything and, like, really being part of the team and necessary. But Flex is somebody who I'll say I learned from very quickly that you don't have to. He taught me very. You don't have to stand with the crowd. You can do your own thing. Like, it's okay to stand alone and the XYZ and everything else. But, yeah, that's that same flex, the same energy that he gives you. He don't give a fuck, bro. He will love you today and hate you tomorrow. He don't give a fuck. He don't.

[Grits]

It's like one of the cornerstones of our podcast is this. Like, if you in New York City right now, like, we do that shit all the fucking time. Because that's flash. That shit was iconic. Like, you'll never. I don't know if we'll ever have somebody break a record that way. Like, I don't know if that's even possible.

[Karen Civil]

The thing is, he still dropped bombs like that.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

Like the Knicks win. Like, just go to New York on a Friday, a Thursday.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

Like, what is it the Rangers can win? It doesn't matter. It could just be a hot day. He gonna drop some bombs and he's gonna get you excited and it's just like, he has got it.

[Grits]

Yeah, yeah.

[Karen Civil]

Like, it works for the community, the Voice. And now he's like, yeah, now I believe he's like the director up at hotel and things like that. Shout out to him. Cause he booked Max for summer jam. So I appreciate that. But like, yeah, he's still to be respected. And I say it, like, when I say Flex don't give a fuck. I mean it in a way of like, respect and regard. Meaning he doesn't let outside noise. He doesn't let society, norms, people question him, other people's qualms.

[Grits]

Like, he gonna do what Flex do.

[Karen Civil]

He's going to do what he does.

[Grits]

Yeah. Real.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

I mean, that's.

[Karen Civil]

He not folding. Yeah, he not folding. He's not letting it. There's no chink in the armor. So that's why I'm like, he. Like, yeah, he's different.

[Grits]

At what point do you start to see that people are taking your ideas and like, at what point do you see that your ideas are starting to matter in these rooms? Like the things that you're pitching? Like you said. I know. You said, after Flakes, you go to dipset.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

Is this where you kind of get your feet wet in digital marketing for business?

[Karen Civil]

No, I. I'm a lead it back to Flex. The reason why is I Launched Weezy thanks you.com When Wayne was locked up. Right. And that made. And by then I left. I left. This was. Wait, this was. Yeah, we launched Wheezy thanks you dot com. And this was after I left Flex. And even for something like that, Flex called me. And back then I used to be like, flex, I wanna do a website. Because at the time the hot97.com team left at 5 o' clock. I said, your show doesn't come on till 7. Nobody's getting content. Unless it was, like, a really big artist, like an Eminem or something. And I'm like, nobody's getting content. I'll bring my camera. I'll get the questions. So you can at least be updated on hot97.com. We need to like people across the globe. This is one on smash.com and nah, right was really big. I said, they're trying stream. Let's figure out a streaming thing. Cause people want to listen to it. Like, let me record the freestyles and then put it on the Internet. No, no, no, no, no. I used to just. He used to find it to be annoying. So now when he's ready to launch funkflex.com for him to call me and say, I want to launch with you. I need your help. And we simultaneously launched with a Lil Wayne interview. That was amazing. That's when I knew, like, that was the moment. Because I understood at the time. I get it flexed. It's not the time. You don't get it. But when he did get it, he knew who to call, which was me. And I respected it. And it was just amazing to be able to even just launch his site as well.

[Grits]

That's hard.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

What was the. And was that another thing for you, just out of being a fan of Wayne, that you wanted to, like, make sure that people stay connected to him while he was locked up?

[Karen Civil]

No, I was building a business. I mean, yeah, of course I was the.

[Grits]

This was the strategy.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah, this was like, strategy.

[Grits]

Okay, this is not. But this is you using the Backstreet Boys.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah, this is me using the Backstreet Boys for business. And I can launch my business, which I called always Civil Enterprise, which was short for Ace, So I can launch my business. At the time, I had a great rapport with Mack Main, who is the president of Young Money. And he pulls me in for this, and for him to give me a shot, I said, look, they're a family unit. They don't really let outsiders come in. So the fact that he gave me a shot, I said, I gotta hit this out the fucking park. And that's exactly what I did. So it was like, he has the Guinness Book of World Records for most amount of likes, fastest amount of likes. He had a number one album with Rebirth. Everything was done. And from that, I was named MTV's MVP of the Year. And then I got the job at Beast by Dre. So, yes, it worked. Yeah, it worked. That was the moment. Like, fucking believing in yourself, taking that shot and playing like Kobe and mj.

[Grits]

Yeah. But this is also a testament that, like, do what you love. Like, do what you do and not only what you love, but what you good at. Like, because the Backstreet Boys in 97 is the reason why this works.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

Yeah. It takes those 10, 15 years to. Okay, this is it.

[Karen Civil]

Honing and perfecting it to get to that point of turning a hobby into my career. And that's what started it. Where they're like, well, how you start your business with Lil Wayne.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

And it was amazing.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

So, you know, from. I started as his social media manager in 2010, and then in 2023, I got to become his general manager. So that within itself, when I just, like, look back at the time, like, oh, my God, you started as a social media girl.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

And now you're running the label, which is amazing.

[Grits]

How does that feel? But how is that running Young Money in the time where they're. Wayne is giant. Wayne is like, it's well known in hip hop at that time that he's the guy. Like, he's number one. But then you get these two juggernauts and Drake and Nikki. Does that all come through your. Where you were in your position at Young Money? Did you help Usher that in or any marketing?

[Karen Civil]

No, that was. No, no, no. That was Mac made way before. I'm talking, like, a couple years ago. I'm talking 20.

[Grits]

20. Oh, okay.

[Karen Civil]

Not 2003.

[Grits]

Okay.

[Karen Civil]

I'm talking, like, four years ago.

[Grits]

I was thinking, like, 2010.

[Karen Civil]

No, no, no, no. So I was doing the social media back then. It was Cortez. It was Mack Main. I'm forgetting some folks, too. Please forgive me.

[Grits]

But it was like Wayne got locked up. What year was that? That was like, 2020. 2010, right?

[Karen Civil]

Yeah, 2010. And that's when I did the Rebirth and that stuff with him.

[Grits]

But then it takes a little while to get into.

[Karen Civil]

I started working with him with Tyga. Like, that's the. Most people don't realize Tyga was the first Young Money artist.

[Grits]

Yes.

[Karen Civil]

Tyga was the first person he ushered in. Cause he had the coconut, the lime in the coconut. Yeah. And with Trav McCoy. And he was big in things. I like to say he's the. The fourth goat from Young Money.

[Grits]

I'm. I'm not mad at that.

[Karen Civil]

Okay.

[Grits]

I'm not mad at that. I used to listen. I would listen to those Tiger tapes. He had, like, a very distinct style. Wayne was, like, a really big influence on that whole Young Money camp. So, yeah, Tiger was in there. You got it. You got to give it to Tiger. He got some hits.

[Karen Civil]

In a sense, I feel like he held his own. He's been in this business for so long. But once you see him perform, my gosh, I, I continue to speak his praises because like out of the talent up there, I'm like out of performance wise, the young money. He's in my top three.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

Oh, yeah.

[Grits]

Okay.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah. He is honestly my top two. Yeah, yeah. For performance.

[Grits]

Heard that.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah, yeah. Like, he's really, really good. Like breathe and control.

[Grits]

Just everything great. Like some people that are superstars, but the live show just don't hit.

[Karen Civil]

Really.

[Grits]

Yeah, it happens. Yeah, it happens.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

It's kind of crazy how much life can change in just one summer. Last summer looked completely different than this one for me. These days, everything I do is centered around my kids and making sure they're taken care of. Not just today, but years from now. Becoming a parent changes the way you think. You stop thinking only about what's happening today and start thinking about what if something happens tomorrow. And you want to know that your family is protected no matter what life throws your way. And that's why I like Policy Genius. They make finding the right life insurance policy simple and straightforward. Policy Genius is an online insurance marketplace where you can compare quotes from some of America's top insurers side by side for free. Their licensed team helps you figure out exactly what you need. Coverage, amounts, pricing, terms without all the guesswork. They answer your questions, handle the paperwork and help you find the policy that fits your family's needs. They've also got thousands of five star reviews from people who found the right coverage through them. Having a plan in place gives you real peace of mind so you can spend more time enjoying life with the people you love instead of worrying about the future. With Policy Genius, you can find your 20 year life insurance policies starting at just $276 a year for $1 million in coverage. So head to policygenius.com backslash grids to compare life insurance quotes from top companies and see much you can start saving today. So head to policygenius.com and compare life insurance quotes from top companies and see how much you could save. That's policygenius.com grits but his live show is amazing. Yeah, that's what is. What is the. What are the early days with Dipset? Cause thinking about Wayne? Me as a Wayne fan, I remember Wayne's Dipset era.

[Karen Civil]

But that's not no. So that era, interestingly enough, he was like. It used to be him and Jules were jewels, were so tight, I can't feel my face. So my dipset era was the Duke productions. I worked with Duke the God, right? And it was so great because Duke Encompass was the A and R. But we were out of Jimmy's office with Yandy, so it was like we got the Encompass and I got to see the early start of. Cause you know, Jim was loving hip hop. He was taping those episodes first. Then up the hall you had Asylum. You get to see Paul Wall and his whole thing being built. And then our intern was Yams, who asap. Yams is then starting, you know, asap. So it's like you have all these things happening.

[Grits]

That's cool.

[Karen Civil]

That's my, like super memory. And oh my gosh, it was such a good time.

[Grits]

That's like a cultural hub.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah, it's such a good. It's such a good time.

[Grits]

Cause I never understood that. I never understood, like, what ASAP NYAMS was to ASAP until you just said that that's what he was doing.

[Karen Civil]

He was that star. So it started off as ASAP productions, and they were doing their beats and their stuff. And yeah. Then started off, then he went on to the group. But even then, Yams used to come in. Steve used to come into the office, help pack the CDs, get the business acumen and everything. And even back then he was super learning. But we got to be up at like just. Just being a dissent. We got to be up at Asylum working with Todd Moskowitz, who to this day is amazing, you know, like creating hit after hit. Joey I. E. Who at a point was like super mentor to me. Being up the hall from them, seeing all of the artists that they're even creating. I'll never forget. Remember Laffy Taffy? Yeah, that song. Them guys came up and picked up a million dollar check.

[Grits]

D4L.

[Karen Civil]

D4L for ringtones. This is before, like a million dollar check. A million dollars.

[Grits]

Yo. Laffy Taffy was like that.

[Karen Civil]

A million dollar check for ringtones. For ringtones from an independent label. And I said, wow. Like, this is how Joey and Todd, they were like getting to it and really giving a. About their artists.

[Grits]

Yeah, yeah, Laffy Taffy. So we from Atlanta, so we just remember what that was. And it's like we like. Fable is somebody that you can just. You can see him anywhere. Like, he really be outside like that. Shadalo is like a city legend. Like him having the defoil like, you know, we get all they tapes and shit like that. So not. But knowing that they made a Millie off of ringtones, bro, that's crazy. And that's just one check.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah. I'm like, but this is back when you had. You remember you had to download it.

[Grits]

Yes.

[Karen Civil]

Like, yes. Every commercial was like, everybody. But this was the. You could not escape it. So this was before the streaming and the like, this is hard sells.

[Grits]

Like, it's true.

[Karen Civil]

That's why I'm like, I'mma always tip my hat off to Joey and Todd because they were getting to it.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

But like, Todd got Rod Wave now, so.

[Grits]

Rod Wave?

[Karen Civil]

Yeah, that's my, like, that's my artist.

[Grits]

Yeah. Rod Wave.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah, that's my Beyonce. People like, what's Rod Wave reaching me? I'd be like, that's my Beyonce. They'd be like, oh. I'm like, okay. You understand what that means?

[Grits]

Yeah, yeah. Because Rod Wave speak to a certain. Yeah, he just know. He, he, he. He taps into the human emotion.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah, yeah. He helps me, honestly, like, better understand my grief. Yeah, yeah.

[Grits]

That's real.

[Karen Civil]

And just emotions. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Grits]

I like that, that. I like that regardless of like, what Internet speak is, like, people always talking shit on the Internet. But we need artists to serve those spaces.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

That's what it's for.

[Karen Civil]

And that's what's important. You know, I see a lot of people say things like, you know, oh, he's always sad. It's very depressing music. But unfortunately there are people who are dealing with certain things. He's having conversations and things for them. He's speaking from his heart.

[Grits]

He's helping them.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah. So that's what music is supposed to do.

[Grits]

You've worked with, like, I mean, was it just thinking about these names that, you know, rattling off? It's like you've worked with artists at every stage, every caliber.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

What is the thing that you think separates a artist from being, like, important culturally, like setting themselves in stone to just having popularity and then it just kind of dies off.

[Karen Civil]

Core values and substance. At times when you talk to the artists, what they're about, what's the meaning behind it? Like, how they're looking at certain things. You know, if the way we think, like, you know, you think the 15 second rule or the, oh, they have 15 seconds. You kind of see it with their value, the way they're treating their music. Like, oh, this is gonna be a quick little 15 seconds. Cause you're not showing up on time. You're not, you don't wanna be at the meetings. You know, you don't wanna turn in the music. You don't think it's. You don't think it's respectful to be respectful to everyone on your team and stuff like that. So I necessarily don't work with too much talent, but, like, I'm always gonna have a rapport and thing. It's not a lot, but the Pusha Pusha T. Nipsey. I' ma always have an affinity and speak so highly of, like, yg, when I say show up on time, like, and do whatever's necessary. And just, like, professionalism and everything, at its core, you don't get artists like that all the time. And I'm just so grateful that I was able to be in that light. To work with so many great talent who understand the value of who they are, the position that they're in, and the community that they can change.

[Grits]

Is it a sense of, like, those kind of values are not only, like, just kind of personal values, but those are business ethics too. Like, somebody that just understands the business of things are those. The artists that you see tend to, like, have more staying power or people that understand the business side of it.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah. Who understand both sides of a. Like. And the more important part is the emotional intelligence where it's like, yeah, let's pull this back. This is not intentionally. We gotta do this for the sake of this. But, yeah, you definitely have that lasting power.

[Grits]

Yeah. What are some of the more difficult aspects of working with talent when they're all about, for lack of a better term, when they're, like, being a diva about their art.

[Karen Civil]

Oh, that process of perfectionism sucks. And that's where, like, I got the most amazing business partner who deals with that Steve Carless. Where. When they be like, ooh, I'm not sure. I'm not. I'm like, all right, Steve. This is where you check in and he go get that music. He have the conversation. But yes, perfectionism exists for them. Where they're like, wait, I need to fine tune it one more time. I gotta do this. Well, I'm not actually not mad at that. Where I love that they love the craft so much, but we gotta turn it in, right? It gets to a point where I'm like, look, I'm not finna have an attitude. I'm gonna send Steve in here. I'm gonna let Steve do the boy thing, the guy thing. And let's wrap this the fuck up. Cause we need this song. Cause after a while, I just get

[Grits]

very irritable Yeah, I think about somebody like a Pusha. Like, Pusha is one of my favorite rappers. When Nipsey passed, I wouldn't consider myself a big Nipsey Hussle music fan as much as I was just a fan of who he was and what he represented. Like, you know, I took on his reading list. That shit helped me, like, tremendously. It helped me understand what I'm doing now just from like the books he would recommend. But I think the thing about Pusha is to come from like this group that's like phenomenal, like one of the top rap duos of all time. To have to like transition into a singles career, but not necessarily focus on crossing over, but focus on serving that fan base.

[Karen Civil]

And.

[Grits]

And he did it well. Like, has one of the best discographies. How is it when you work with artists like that who just understand what they do and they don't want it? Like, not even necessarily that they don't want to, but they know, like, they don't need to.

[Karen Civil]

So, like, what Push really has core values. And it's like, this is me. I'm not gonna be swayed by the Internet public perception of what I should, could, woulda. All of that never matters to him. He sees the goal and that's just what it is. That is both of them. And that is because this is. They come from that two parent home. Like, you know, the way they were basically saying the way they were brought up, you know, just conditioned. When you're having a conversation with him, like, he is somebody who is very insightful, who go, this is why I'm doing XYZ. I could send him like, I sent him YG's oh my God verse on a Tuesday. He sent it back to me a Wednesday afternoon. He's that efficient, gets it done and knows. But then if it's. Hey, can you do this? Nope, not a fan. Don't like this artist. Don't necessarily think it works for me. Done. But I think it's gonna be a hit. No, I don't care. No, but it's gonna be a hit. I don't care.

[Grits]

Yes, just.

[Karen Civil]

Cause it's a hit. I don't care. I'm like, all right, cool. No problem. And that's that. Like, there's no. Like, I've tried that. There's no.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

Moving it around.

[Grits]

I'm. I'm.

[Karen Civil]

Where he'll be like, I'll pass. I just don't. I'll pass. I'm not gonna do it if it's.

[Grits]

If it's against who I am and what I represent. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. You know, the amount of interviews, it ain't. It turned down.

[Karen Civil]

It's like, oh, there's no money involved.

[Grits]

It doesn't matter. It's not me. I don't like even. Even that part. I don't like it. I don't like their music. I'm not interviewing. I don't like your music. Yeah, I'm not interviewing you if, like, I don't like what you represent. Like, how you represent yourself.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

I don't want to align myself with that. And it's like, for me, those. It's. It tends to be that those are the artists that I like, really resonate with too, because you could just see it. October, they reached out. Pusha and Malice reached out. Cause I just showed them love on the album, and it's like, not for anything in return. It's like a fan of the music. So they invited us out to the show in Chicago. It was crazy. Like, you know, we've seen they show twice.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah, yeah.

[Grits]

Phenomenal. Phenomenal. Like, the set list, the album in and of itself is flawless, but the way that they curated the set is fucking phenomenal. They hold up.

[Karen Civil]

It's perfect. Start on time, they hold up, finish on time.

[Grits]

Say, listen, you in your car and you back home. If they say that show start at 8:30, brother. At 8:30, you know, change the show, lights down, duh.

[Karen Civil]

Yup, you gonna hear, change the lift at 8:30.

[Grits]

I'm like, yeah, okay, it's time, nigga. And then 9:30, we to the crib, bruh. We outta here. Yeah, grown men shit though, too. I'm interested to see what your position was at Beast by Dre and what's that like? Because that's a product. That's a hip hop product.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

You know what I mean? So how does that vary? And does it make it easier that you're not dealing with talent, but you're dealing with the product?

[Karen Civil]

So then I will say I was super blessed in the sense of I was the 12th employee and we were out of the Interscope office at first, and we were literally sitting outside. Who's one of the revered A. RS Karen Kwok. Sitting near her office. And we just had a desk, and I made the most of it. They hired me for social media, but they didn't have a lot of content. So on top of just. And I wasn't waiting for the content. So I would go out and be the content creator. I would make stuff. I would find things that was Just happening outside connections and relationships that I had from my website. Like, I'd have them come in the office. One of our first guests was Joe Budden. And yeah, it was Joe. Joe happened to be in town. I was like, joe, need you to come by the office. He was like, why? I was like, like, you're coming to Interscope anyway. So that was my thing of, oh, you're coming to the label to have a meeting. Come upstairs, two levels and then come see us. We'll give you some headphones, we'll take some pictures. I remember I was like, joe, you got to do a freestyle. He was like, what? Why are we rapping? I was like, I don't know. Beats tv. Beats tv. I was just like, we needed something. I'm like, while I have you here, let's make the content. So it was that. Then the other one was like, anytime somebody would just come by, I would literally just be walking around. And I'll never forget, somebody said to me, this was. They called the hip hop floor Interscope. They were like, yeah, don't go on that floor. I think it was like the fifth or something. They were like, yeah, that's the hip hop floor. I was like, that's exactly where the fuck I'm going. Cause that's where I need to be. That's where it's cracking. So I need to see, like, get everything going. And some of the best people were down there, like, and relationships and everything. So, yeah, like, when I tell you I absolutely loved being at Beats. It grew from there, all of my outside relationships. Wayne launching his headphone. Like, the million dollar headphone. Just everything in between. Like, I had a fucking amazing time there, and it was great to have the product. It got tricky when Apple came aboard, because now you gotta be a really suit and tie business. But Jimmy and Dre didn't. They let us. And Omar just let us be. But now it's gonna be super professional. I'm cool. Like, I've built this whole thing. I always civil is growing. And at the time Hillary was running for election, I was like, I'm okay. I could go. And then she win.

[Grits]

Yeah, unfortunately.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah. And that was that. Yeah.

[Grits]

That was the first. Oh. Oh.

[Karen Civil]

The way I had my life plan.

[Grits]

That was a blow, brother.

[Karen Civil]

The way I thought she was gonna win, I had a life plan. I was like, oh, I'm gonna be in the White House. Then I'm gonna leave, Then I'm gonna write the book. I'm gonna have her forward. Then I'm gonna go here Then I'm da da, da. Then I'm get married. Then I'm gonna have the house in D.C. she lost all my. Look, I had it planned out. It was my birthday. It was my birthday. Me and Pusha are standing there. We got the suits on, the black turtlenecks. Like I pre had the photo ready to queue up. Like, she had the choir. I had the birthday cake. Katy Perry, everybody is there, we're ready to go. Then she lost.

[Grits]

That was a tough loss. That was a tough loss for America because of this.

[Karen Civil]

She lost on. I'm gonna keep stressing this on my birthday. Cause that was a big thing for me. I was supposed to get. I'm ready to start the new email. Send it the next day. Like, hey, all right, moving forward. This is my new email ready to Karen [e-mail] no longer Hillary Clinton.com Guys, move forward. It was stressful. And you know what? I had an ex text me, ha ha ha ha ha.

[Grits]

Oh, wow. On your birthday.

[Karen Civil]

I lost. And I said, oh, he was up. No, he was up for that one because he waited. I said, ooh, he's up to remember. It was like he was up for that. Yeah.

[Grits]

What is the. What is the thin line for an artist, for an exec, for anybody in the industry? From you standing on your morals and values versus you're difficult to work with?

[Karen Civil]

See, that's like a loaded question because you can. It's variations of answering that from my POV as being a woman in this business. I'm going to get who doesn't operate in certain spaces, who may negate in certain spaces and things like that. I may be called a bitch. I don't want to engage or be in conversation. I may walk in a room. You're stuck up, you're this, you're that somebody. At times, people won't speak to me because they think you're the girlfriend or the xyz. So it's a lot of negative connotations and things that come with being a woman in this business. But at the same time, it's a lot of positive attributes that at the end of the day, I have now built in why I kept stressing the like, flex, don't give a fuck. I don't give a fuck. I don't give a fuck. If you think I have an attitude because I don't have one, I'm coming in with positivity. I'm coming in being myself, trying to get the situation. We're trying to close a deal, whatever it is. Hey, let's answer the question. Whatever. Let's get to it. You understand where it's like, treat me with the same regard you would treat your male counterpart. And I take it as that, like, I can't give a fuck and I can't worry about the pretenses of what everybody else thinks. That's not for me to hold.

[Grits]

Real.

[Karen Civil]

That's really not for me to hold. And at this point, it's not fair.

[Grits]

Yeah. I wrote this on a plane today. I said, I'm not letting shit slide. Cause I ain't worked this hard to let this shit crumble. Worried about if people gonna fucking like me or not. And that'll. Cause. Cause if I gotta worry about if you like me, then I gotta take on that weight, and that's just gonna wear me the fuck down. And then it's like, it'll start crumbling.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

Cause I'll be crumbling internally. And it's like, yeah, I don't give a fuck. Like, that's the perfect way. I could have taken that whole sentence and just wrote, I don't give a fuck, and I would have been good.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

Yeah. Straight up.

[Karen Civil]

Cause it's at that point, like, I've been at that place, though I'm not. I'm. Now I'm here. But I've been at that place where I've allowed comments, negative critiques, and the group alienation of, you know, cliques and certain things bother me. But now I'm at this point, I'm like, karen, what does it do? Yeah, you have to hold onto that. You have to release it like it's your nervous system. And at the same time, we have free will. I have free will to be upset by this, or I have free will not to give a fuck. So I'm gonna choose the one not to give a fuck and to keep my nervous system intact.

[Grits]

Somebody said, I read this. That's a lie. I heard. I watched this video. This girl said one thing that she learned in business is that you can either be a bitch or you can get an autoimmune disease.

[Karen Civil]

Why I got that video saved. Why I got that video saved. Why I got that video saved.

[Grits]

Come on, man.

[Karen Civil]

And I sent it to my cousin. Hey, man, I said, you don't disease me.

[Grits]

Nah, not me. Cool on that.

[Karen Civil]

Because I'm like, at this point, I'd

[Grits]

just rather be an asshole, bruh.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah. But at this point.

[Grits]

Point.

[Karen Civil]

You get what I mean? But at this point, like, bitch, be whatever you want to call it. But I'm like, I'm not holding on to.

[Grits]

It's just assertive, bro.

[Karen Civil]

But the thing is, if I'm not holding on to the work title, why am I holding on to that title?

[Grits]

Bingo. Yeah. That ain't. Yeah, this is the. Hey, this nigga Eminem. I ain't gonna hold you. That. That. When that nigga dropped that. Whatever you say I am. Shit. When I was like, 12, nigga, I'm walking to the butt. Sometimes I sit back in this pack. I was like, yeah, that n a popping.

[Karen Civil]

Sit back. Do you ever look back like, most of them songs is affirmations.

[Grits]

Yo. What?

[Karen Civil]

So I recently went. I'm not gonna say the artist's name. I recently went to this concert, and I'm like, hold on. I can't sing this. Like, I was like, wait, I can't.

[Grits]

You gotta be careful.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah. I was like, I can't.

[Grits]

You gotta be careful.

[Karen Civil]

I was like, but I'm not. I was like, I hit my homegirl. Like, we sit down. We not singing this part like, we can't sing. Like, it's not us.

[Grits]

I had a moment. I was in Alabama. I was listening to this artist, my favorite artist at the time, and I'm like, what the fuck made you say that? What made you say that on some punk flex? Why you go with that bar? Like. I was like, oh, skip this every time. Just because that one bar that you put in this song, I'm not listening to this song no more. I Love the song. 99% of it. Perfect. That one bar is like, I can't. I can't even have that in my subconscious. Nigga, why you talking like that? Yeah, there's a certain weight that you have to hold as not only in the executive, but just in the business of building relationships. I know that your relationship with Nipsey was, like, near and dear.

[Karen Civil]

Mm.

[Grits]

When is the. What's the inception of that relationship?

[Karen Civil]

What do you mean?

[Grits]

How do you meet Nipsey?

[Karen Civil]

Nipsey had a show in New York City. You familiar with bdot?

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

Okay, so BDOT is one of my close friends, but BDOT is like the silent A and R. He would tell me who artists I would need to listen to to put on my site. So I would call him, like, who do I need to feature? And he would. He's like, yeah, this artist, Nipsey, is coming into town. You need to come to this show. So I go. And it's. Bullets have no Name. Volume one show is amazing. I'm like, great. Now I gotta do a. I gotta interview him. Like, I gotta do a civil introduction thing with him. So he's at Johnny Shipes house. We connect from there. I said, hey, eventually when I come to la, I'm gonna hit you. He was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, make sure you hit me. And I didn't think he was being serious, right? So then I get the job with beach by Dre maybe a year, maybe two years later, and I hit him when I'm in la. And I was like, hey, I actually came to la. He was like, all right, bet I'm at the store. I was like, okay. And I was like, okay, where's that? He was like, on Slauson in Crenshaw. So my roommate Vanessa at the time, me and her, I had her do a whole tour with me around la. I was like, I want to go to the car wash, I want to go to the dota place, the thing. Let me go stop by and see Nip. Nip was behind the counter with his daughter at the store, like moving the CDs, working with his brother. And me and him had a conversation. I said, hey, you know, I know you knew me from the site, but I'm working with Beats by Dre. Let's connect on some stuff. Let's figure out some synergies, like, and things like that. He was like, I bet, you know, you want anything. I was like, well, I'll get like a T shirt or something. And then I was executive producing this show for this car show that was supposed to come back out on MTV2 at the time. And I asked Nipsey to be on it. And Nipsey was supposed to bring his car, but he didn't end up showing up. And that was my first, like, work relationship with Nipsey. I was like, oh, wow. And I like wrote him a stern like, wow, I've never had this. We had production. If you didn't want to do it, like a very Karen esque, like, text message. And he was like, no, my bad. I apologize to the na. Come to the office and talk to you. And I was at Beats by Dre. So even at Beats, I was like doing my own thing. So he ended up coming to the office and we talked for like an hour. He said, look, it wasn't on purpose. I got. He was telling me about his all money in stuff that he got with the team, the store, just all these moving pieces, how he still is a rapper, but he's a businessman and a father first. So at the end of the day, I respected that and understood it because it was More than just a standard apology. It's like, this is what I got going on. It's bigger than you want me do some. Some just like, quick thing with my car, this. Everything else that's happening. And my partner at the time, Steve Carless, I end up calling him, and I was like, I feel like there's a way for us to all work together. And I know you don't necessarily want a manager, but we want to help you build out what you're doing. Because everything he said to me sounded so exciting and all the projects and things, I was like, let us help you get this in order because there's something here and let's figure it out. And that's all it was, that conversation from there, and then we've been rocking ever since.

[Grits]

Yeah, yeah, that's lit. Yeah. That was just his way of everything was like. Is very intentional. Yeah, right. It's well thought out. This is well studied. This isn't just something like he was just throwing at the wall and seeing what stick. Like he had a plan. You know what I mean?

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

So I think early on I was into music, but I'm gonna ask you. I wanna. I wanna. I want your opinion on this too. But it's like I had to just face reality. Like, it's a reason why this shit not working. It doesn't matter about how many people say they like this shit. If there, there. There has to be some growth, there has to be some increase. There has to be something viable there where. I know, but it's like, it ain't making no noise in the way that I want it to. Right. So this is when I, like, hang. I'm like, I'm done. And then I'm gonna figure out what the next play is. And that's when I come up with a plan for all this shit. But what is the. As many trial and errors that you had, as many, like, ideas that you've had that you've seen it to fruition, and they either they win, some fail. When do you feel like is the time that you've learned, like, okay, this just isn't working. It's time to walk away. As hard as it may be, like, in business or in creative endeavors,

[Karen Civil]

it gets to a point when it starts to take an emotional toll on you where you don't even know who you are, where you're crying at night. Not from like, just this business can make you very. Like, I'm trying to watch my words. But very suicidal to a point of. We've seen executives Pass. And when I got to that level, I'm like, huh? And before it gets there, let me make sure that I'm okay.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

Because at the end of the day, people can give you a hard time when you're already having a hard time.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

And that's when it's like. When it got to that point. When it got to that point of, like, okay, let's take a step back to a point where you don't even want to exist. Let's take a step back and let's recalibrate and let's move on over. Because it's never gonna get to that for me.

[Grits]

Yeah. Real.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

How do you deal with some of the heavier blows that come along with, like, building these relationships? Like someone like a Nipsey who culturally, that impacts everyone, Even, like, somebody like me. I said I'm not necessarily his biggest fan of his music, but I'm a fan of who he is as a person. But then you have the people who are die hard as far as music, and. And then we have people who have, like, personal and business relationships with him. How does that. Like, how do those losses impact you not only as a person, like, as an individual, but, like, as an executive and just your stance towards the industry

[Karen Civil]

in general, you see it in both ways. You kind of, like, said it perfect perfectly. From a personal standpoint, it's sad. You know, this is somebody that I am not going to. There's no new conversations. There's no new learning from. This is somebody who poured into a lot of people, but then also happy because of the lasting impression, the groundwork that he left, that's continuing to be done. So it's like, you physically may not be here, but your presence still is. But death, in a sense, because six months before Nip was Malcolm was Mac Miller. So it's like death changes you. There's no way around it. You're never gonna be the person you were before. And this is just who I am. Where now grief is just a part of me. And I tell people I'm gonna have some good days, I'm gonna have some bad days, and that's okay. Where I'm now, it's just a part of who I am, and that's just what it is.

[Grits]

Yeah. Because to do things at the level that you do them, you have to get personally invested.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

Because this is. I'm away from my family, you know, and you think of, like, Mac dropped album birthday. This is somebody. I celebrated my first birthday in LA at the Lobster Sitting. Me him push, like, you know, just what that felt like. They created and became the family for me that I didn't necessarily have. And then that's taken away.

[Grits]

Right.

[Karen Civil]

And I still have to exist in this space.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

You know, I still have to, you know, quote unquote, see them. And, like, you move on. It's like, you gotta move on with an extension of, like, their existence, but you're still not moving on with their presence. If that makes sense. Yeah.

[Grits]

Makes a lot of sense.

[Karen Civil]

And it takes a toll. So they'll be like, I tell people, I have some good days and I have some bad days.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

And that's okay. But then the other part is, with, like, Nip, there are things that happen. I just go talk to them, like, ideas. And when things are done, like partnerships and things like, hey, Nip, we just said, look, I went by like, show them the shoe. Have a conversation. That's my way of coping. I'll have lunch with him. That's my way of coping. And it works. Yeah.

[Grits]

Yeah. You gotta do what? Work for you.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah. And it works. And it works.

[Grits]

And, you know, I think the thing that people don't really, like, take into account, especially somebody, you know, me and you share this. We're east coast people.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

When you in la, you might as well be in a whole nother world.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

You might as well be in a whole nother country because it's like, what is the middle point for this? You know what I mean? Like, I live in Atlanta, nigga, I'm from Atlanta. I'm way the fuck over there. You know, it's three hours. Like, even, like right now, like, it's 10 o'. Clock. And when we rap, I would normally call my kids, but I can't. It's like 2 in the morning. You know what I mean? So it's like, fuck, now I gotta. I'm gonna wake up early so I can call them. But it's like building up, building a team, building a family, building relationships like that out here. It's like, as those things come to unfortunate ends, it's like, wow, it was like out here on this island. You know what I mean? So, you know, condolences to you. I know that it can't be easy to deal with, especially, like, you know, this is not only your business, but, you know what I mean? You poured your life into this.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah, yeah. And it's like, I think the worst part of all is, like, the public consumption of it. And it's like, you know, I've had some people Even around, like, dealing with, like, his funeral and certain things. People say some negative things. Who. But people don't realize you're grieving through this process. I'm working and grieving at the same time. That's not easy because I'm showing up at this point and, you know, releasing the ego in my thing because I'm thinking about his wife, I'm thinking about his family and giving them a second because this is not easy. So it's like I'm a. I listen to that music. Everything he talked about, he fitting to have everything. And, you know, people know I'm fucking delusional in a sense of. I call it marketing delusion. Yeah. I want it all to a sense of, he deserves it all, so we're gonna have it all. And Sam and Lauren and his family shouldn't think about anything until. Let's make it all happen.

[Grits]

Yeah, I wonder. I just think about this. The aspect that people don't think about is that there's this person, whether it be Nip, whether it be Mac, whether it be anybody. They're sharing so much of themselves with the world. And then in moments like that, the world. Like you said, the world is consuming it.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

And not necessarily thinking about the toll that it takes on the family or the people that were closest to them. So, yeah, I think there needs to. I kind of. I get weary about certain shit where everything becomes a product for people, especially in this time.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

It's like people now, like, you know, the Internet is weird. It says. They'll say the craziest shit about people, and they don't realize, like, this is a person you talking about. Right. So they're consuming whatever it is you directing at them, and they take it with them. You see that shit break people down all the time. Especially in this, like, the content creator space.

[Karen Civil]

It's to a point, it's bad. Now, I had to have a conversation with one of the artists I work with. Pissed, right? Because they happened to see a piece of content that went live, Right. And they're like, what is this? How is this media page allowed to do this? I said, look, let's track it back. Let's see where it goes. Now you can reverse track to see where something started from. I said, we see it comes from this Facebook page, and it's located here. This is not a real news piece. No real news place picks it up. But for them, it's like, but how is this allowed? You know, getting to this point of like, well, how do you put an end to this, the AI conversations and the everything else. Well, this is not true about me and what it does to them. I'm like, at this point, yes, it does get to be a bit annoying just being in this space and just having to get those calls from talent and seeing how they have to like, just. Yeah. That you are. You are a product at this point.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

Cause I deal with it when they call and I'm like, look, I understand. We will put a note under it so they know it's not real, but this really is. They're doing this because now it's clip. The clip farming situation. They make money off of it. They make money off of this image, AKA going back to what you were saying, than being the product and having to explain that to them. And it's like, well, how can we put an end to this? I'm like, AI is going faster than we can actually control.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

And it's especially on social media.

[Grits]

It's an arms race too.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

Like, this is not just the. This is the. This is like the race to the moon for these countries and their tech field. Like, they all want to be first and it's pushing it. So it's pushing it way far ahead than they are. Like, they aren't caught up to where AI is. And it's growing so fast every day. It's kind of like out of control.

[Karen Civil]

But what are we rushing to be first? To be what?

[Grits]

I don't know.

[Karen Civil]

And that's what I want, I guess

[Grits]

the person who can monopolize and capitalize

[Karen Civil]

first to, like, first. Who was. So I look at things, say, like the meta glasses, and I know they just launched today with Kylie and even that I was a little disappointed. I'm like, I would have loved to see them launch with, say, absol. Right?

[Grits]

Bingo.

[Karen Civil]

Let me tell you why. Because we see he has the vision issue.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

He can use the technology and we can actually see it work for people who may have medical issues. He is a musician and this actually helps. That's when it makes sense. That's what I'm waiting for. But then it's like, oh, it's just consumption.

[Grits]

Kylie, big name. We launch it with her and it, like, she doesn't need it. There's no real, like, life application for her. Whereas somebody like. So me and Sol have built, like, a really good friendship over this last year and a half.

[Karen Civil]

That's who I'm waiting. That's every day when there's a new meta launch. That's who I'm waiting for. The launch For Yeah. I'm like, that's who would make sense.

[Grits]

And he's synonymous with. With glasses, like, at this point.

[Karen Civil]

Well, even if it's not him, an artist, if you get what I'm saying, It's just like an artist who would make sense.

[Grits]

Applicable.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah, it makes sense.

[Grits]

Yeah. You know, speaking back to this idea of a product, because even you as an executive, somebody who's behind the scene, digital marketing, you've received tremendous praise. And then you've also received a fair amount of, like, public criticism. How does somebody even behind the scenes deal with, like, this idea of public consumption or public criticism?

[Karen Civil]

It ain't easy. Like, I don't necessarily think about it and then somebody brings it to me.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

Or they were like, hey, did you see this? Did you see that? And I just try to know and cut it off. Before, it used to be a conversation. And then I'm seeing my therapist three times a week now. I'm not looking for it. It's going back to that free will thing of just. I'm not looking for it. And two, I'm letting my ego go of. People are allowed to have their opinions.

[Grits]

Bingo.

[Karen Civil]

They're allowed to have their opinions of me. They don't necessarily know me. And I have to take that in too. These opinions are off of a perceived pov, a reflection of a person they think they know off of the Internet. So do not take this personal.

[Grits]

Yeah. You know, I had to have this conversation with my team too, because as I'm. As I rise, of course the criticism's coming. Like, it starts with so much love, and then it just turns into hate quick.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

And those are in pockets. That's not like the constant. But it's just the shit that people say about you can get heinous, where it's like, God damn, you know? You know, some days, like, do I want to do this? If that's what it come with. But it's just overall, it's like, I take that I don't know them, they don't know me. So, like, whatever, bruh. You don't even know who you're talking about or why.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

Aside from the fact that this is how I reconcile. Reconcile with it. My name.

[Karen Civil]

No, your fans.

[Grits]

I gotta name.

[Karen Civil]

My name is they love you.

[Grits]

They love me. You know what I mean? So the hate. But the thing is.

[Karen Civil]

No, they need you. When your fans need you. When I say they love you, they need you to agree with them too. Like, no, we're consensus. This is what we're going with. And then you start to be like, what?

[Grits]

Somebody told me the other day, they walked up to me at the meet and greet and they said, give me my marching order. I said, oh, shit, I bet you niggas better be cool with your criticism. Let niggas at your front door. Nah, but this is how I reconcile with this. It's like, if I know what you're saying about me isn't true, I know you don't know me. And this isn't a criticism about anything I've said. This is your own thing you've mustered up about who I am as a person. My name has become a cultural currency.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah, it is. And that's.

[Grits]

And I'm cool with that.

[Karen Civil]

Yep.

[Grits]

That's big shit. Yeah, I'm popping that shit. My name is currency. That's cool. Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

And that's just at this point, what it is.

[Grits]

But that's what it comes to.

[Karen Civil]

It's the folks that don't know you. It is the folks that do know you. It's their experience. Okay, I'm not gonna discuss my experience. I really don't care. And you kinda just go from there.

[Grits]

How do we. Where are we at now? What's the care and civil business these days?

[Karen Civil]

Oh, my gosh. It's always civil. I'm super excited. From the branding and marketing side, the talent on there still continuing to work with Teiana, we have Shador yg. And on the label side, which I'm excited is a first for me, I'm working with my partner, Steve Carless is Max B. And you know, we have a number one, number two single right now.

[Grits]

Bingo.

[Karen Civil]

So it's been great. I've been, you know, I've known Max since. Since the dipset days. And we've been in constant communication since he's been locked up. And the dates kept changing and I was like, when you get closer to it, we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. And then just lined it up and made everything make sense for when he came home. So, you know, we did the jets game, Shadors game playing. Make that a moment. And just everything else in between him and French continuing to walk. And then he's performing to the BET Awards. The BET Awards. And he's nominated for best group.

[Grits]

That's hard.

[Karen Civil]

And so is the clips. So same category. So I'm excited. I'm not there.

[Grits]

I'm there.

[Karen Civil]

You going?

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

Okay.

[Grits]

We're doing media.

[Karen Civil]

Okay. So then I'll see you in the room.

[Grits]

Yeah, we got a show Thursday.

[Karen Civil]

Okay.

[Grits]

And then it was like. Well, I mean, it's happening during BET week, so it makes sense. We could do.

[Karen Civil]

Oh, yeah. You staying this whole week then?

[Grits]

Yeah, I'll be here this whole week.

[Karen Civil]

So excited.

[Grits]

I was thinking about this. This popped in my head. I'm sorry. We'll rewind back and then we'll move on. I don't know if there has been a product, like a product that is birthed out of hip hop. Like Beats by Dre. That being tied to Dr. Dre engineering headphones, that cultural product. I don't know if there's been a product like that. Just a cultural. Like, not. Not a song, not a. Not a. Not a. Not like a sneaker. Like, this is turned from, like, cultural hip hop staple to, like, now, like, fitness.

[Karen Civil]

You know, now that I think about

[Grits]

it, I don't know if there has been. I think that's one of one.

[Karen Civil]

No. I would think, you know, who had a shot. But it just. Too early. Dame. Dame would have had a product 101. Because Dame was early on. He had Rockbox. That would have been something.

[Grits]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Karen Civil]

That rock box. He was early on. Yeah, he was early on with. Cause it was like an ipod kind of.

[Grits]

Yeah, yeah.

[Karen Civil]

Dog.

[Grits]

And weed. Maybe that's weed. Come on, son.

[Karen Civil]

No, but he. But the thing is. No, but Snoop. The product itself should count for something because it's. Snoop is everywhere. You can walk into Petco, Walmart, like Marathon. Yeah.

[Grits]

Like you walk into a fucking gas station and Snoop is in there.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

Like the black men. Yeah, he is the most commercial. Like, he's the most commercial.

[Karen Civil]

Christmas, Thanksgiving, he gonna be. You're gonna have a Snoop in correlation, yo. Okay. Snoop, I'm gonna say a product. Snoop is the Holy Trinity. Rihanna is the Holy Trinity.

[Grits]

Fenty.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah. Cause just the Fenty. You know, a girl has something Rihanna, maybe lipstick, sneaker, underwear, clothes, something.

[Grits]

Bingo.

[Karen Civil]

And Dre.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

Jay Z, too.

[Grits]

Wait, okay, but what is this? Snoop? What is this? Okay, if we. Okay, we talking about. Okay, I want to talk about.

[Karen Civil]

I think more Roc Nation.

[Grits]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Karen Civil]

Than Roc Nation.

[Grits]

Because I think about Dre. Dre, product. Beats by Dre, Rihanna, Fenty.

[Karen Civil]

Okay, I get which. No, then Jay Z. Roc Nation.

[Grits]

Jay Z. Roc Nation.

[Karen Civil]

Because Roc Nation, technically is a product, too.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

Like, it's so many different subdivisions. Yeah.

[Grits]

The plain hats. I mean.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah. See all the stuff and then hats and then the shoe and then it's like culture. It's the liquor. You just know when you, like.

[Grits]

Is that in the Air. It's a thing.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah, it's Superman.

[Grits]

It's a thing.

[Karen Civil]

You know some fly shit coming.

[Grits]

Yeah, it's a thing for sure.

[Karen Civil]

So Jay Z, Roc Nation, Rihanna and Dre. Yeah.

[Grits]

All right.

[Karen Civil]

Okay.

[Grits]

Last thing. You're with your expertise.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

I walk in to your office tomorrow and I say hey, you see what I'm doing?

[Karen Civil]

Mm.

[Grits]

What would you do? What would you do with grits and eggs right now? I'll tell you what my vision is for deontay, Kyle. But not grits and eggs.

[Karen Civil]

For grits and eggs. I can tell you that the title itself from a more marketing branding opportunities. I would get you more things that fall into the title. Just I be hitting Kellogg's. What's that Philadelphia show they did?

[Grits]

Always Sunny in Philadelphia elementary.

[Karen Civil]

No, no, no. Sunny.

[Grits]

Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

[Karen Civil]

Always Sunny. Like whatever network they're on to do advertising with yours. Just from your. The title alone. There's just ways to do certain synergies and I think that are just very easy. That ingrains that doesn't take you out of your comfort zone and that just still flows into here comfortably.

[Grits]

Yeah.

[Karen Civil]

And just helps with other guests.

[Grits]

Southern and black. Like ooh. You know we.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah. But then Kellogg's makes other things too.

[Grits]

May it be I'm bringing Uncle Ben back.

[Karen Civil]

Hey look, it's an eggs look. I don't understand why you aren't doing FIFA partnered Waffle House.

[Grits]

I mean I'm thinking.

[Karen Civil]

That's what I'm saying. This is where you start. Like I would think of when you start thinking in like forecasting like what's coming up and things like that. Yeah.

[Grits]

Silver. I need a. I need. But yeah, everybody ain't got silver on

[Karen Civil]

Grace and eggs Waffle House. All the different players and things coming in, having the conversation.

[Grits]

Go ahead, Kyle. Business 2027.

[Karen Civil]

Yes.

[Grits]

A tough year in the gym. Next year. Editorial. Editorial. Deontay.

[Karen Civil]

Okay.

[Grits]

Bring me the brands. We put it on my back, son. Huh? Yeah, I can see it.

[Karen Civil]

I like that.

[Grits]

I can see it now. The locks gonna be longer.

[Karen Civil]

You can start that now. You tell Nike you're going into your training. Cause I say Nike just cause you have it on.

[Grits]

Cause you have it.

[Karen Civil]

But like them, they have the training equipment, different things help you through that process.

[Grits]

Hey, there's only one character meta.

[Karen Civil]

But look, you see how I'm talking in thing. You hit meta for. You need the glasses certain things so you can record your process through it. You know, to let your viewers see that kind of thinking and stuff like that. So yeah.

[Grits]

Type shit.

[Karen Civil]

That's gonna be cool.

[Grits]

Clip that. Let's put that. Not on the Internet. Me personally. Clip that for me personally. All right, well, the architect.

[Karen Civil]

Yeah.

[Grits]

Thank you.

[Karen Civil]

And then you hit the Dove. Dove now loves to work with black creators and stuff, because you're gonna sweat, sweat. Your face is gonna change pimples and whatnot. You need face wash. So Dove loves to work with black creators.

[Grits]

Bingo. All right. Well, you heard it.

[Karen Civil]

Okay.

[Grits]

All right. Thank you so much for coming. I know you don't do this often.

[Karen Civil]

This was fun, though.

[Grits]

I enjoyed this thoroughly.

[Karen Civil]

Thank you so much.

[Grits]

Yeah. Thank you. You. I just want to rap. I just want to rap. Yeah. They say without the proper labor Faith don't stand a chance I put my faith in and faith and stand on fertile land I planted seeds Adeline de Turn into trees before rest in peace teas get printed to me.