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Kevin Schmidlin
This is Grow the Show, the podcast that helps you grow your podcast. My name is Kevin Schmidlin. I am your podcast growth coach. And this one is for those business owners out there who want their podcast to drive leads and sales to their business. Today, I'm going to share with you a concept that you're going to need to know if you want this thing to work. And it's something that I have seen a lot of business owners make mistakes on, including a certain business owner who has already built and sold a $1 billion company, has more than 2 million followers on Instagram, and has made this same mistake and recently made a post about it. So I'm going to share with you what that supposed billionaire successful entrepreneur content person shared and how it matches what I have seen in Working One on One with more than 400 podcasting entrepreneurs myself. And so this actually came up because I had a welcome call just the other day. We just did a big Black Friday offer at the Grow the Show Academy. The folks who hopped in on that got a one on one welcome call with me. So I had like nine welcome calls this past Monday, and I saw this theme that I'm about to share a few times. And there was somebody who called in, and there was one person who I met with who intuited what I'm about to share with you, made the adjustment and his show, with nothing else happening, 6x'd in one month. He got 6 times the downloads in one month. And then I also had a couple conversations with entrepreneurs who I had to share this distinction with them in the call because they were making the mistake. So I'm gonna walk through what the mistake is. I'm gonna share with you what the super mega giant content creator learned, what he shared. And then I'm actually going to share with you four ways that I see entrepreneurs mess this up. And my goal with this is so that if you're messing this up, you can fix it, and if you're not, you can see why things are working well. And either way, again, if you are a business owner who is podcasting and wants your show to drive leads and sales and profit and revenue, you need to understand this. And this is a concept that I call podcast product parody. What does that mean? Well, let's first talk about the podcaster that I spoke to that intuited this. So he joined up the call, he told me about his podcast, and he said that he recently rebranded his show and initially his podcast was super, super broad. It was about being just a better man like, how can we be better men? And he had virtually no audience. He was getting about 90 downloads per month on his show. So I suppose he listens to the Growth show podcast and heard me hammer over your head how you have to be more clear with what your show is, who it's for, and what it's going to do for its listeners. So he took that advice to heart and he rebranded his show. Now, when he did this, he leaned into what his specialty is as an entrepreneur. So this person is an online coach, and he has coached other men before on how to improve their lives. But the engagements where he got the best results and the avatar that he was able to serve the most is the man who was looking to be a better husband. That was his wheelhouse, is coaching men on how to be a better husband. So he noticed this. He changed the brand of his podcast to be about being a better husband instead of just being about a better man. And in one month, his show, 6x ed. Now, when he told me this, I asked him a couple questions to dig in to see if there was anything else that he did that might have 6X'd his show. And we didn't find anything. So based on all that I asked, there's like four or five questions that I ask everybody to understand why a show's download numbers have changed. I asked him those questions and I'm like, hey, I really think it might be the fact that your show is more clear. And what's also amazing about this is that now it's going to be much easier for him to get paying clients from his show because his podcast now has parody with his product. It is the same thing. Now, let's talk about an entrepreneur who didn't get this right. A huge name who I can only hope to have on this podcast someday, recently made a post about what he learned. The content creator, his name is Tom Bilyeu. He originally co founded Quest, which is like the health food company, eventually would sell, that the company sold, I'm pretty sure, for over a billion dollars. And so dude is a really strong business owner. After selling the company, he has built his Impact Theory audience, which is a huge podcast, to several million downloads. And his Instagram audience has over 2 million people. And I noticed earlier in November he made a post that said it was a great post. It was a video where he said, I built an audience of 2 million people and I could not get them to buy anything. Which I'm so happy that he made this post because a lot of people in the Comments were like, what? How on earth could you reach 2 million people and they don't buy anything? And he said it's because he tried to sell them things that didn't relate to the stuff he was giving them in their content. So the impact theory audience is about mindset. It's about, you know, how you can be more successful in life. Tom Bilyeu put out tons of mindset content and then when the time came to sell his audience something, he tried to sell them comic books about mindset and it did not work. Nobody bought it. He did the same thing over on YouTube. Built an audience over a million subscribers and he tried to sell them video games and nobody bought anything. Eventually, he turned to his mindset audience and he offered a course about mindset and it worked. It sold. So he made a post. It's a quick video. He shared this lesson. If you Google, Tom Bilyeu built an audience, it comes up, the video comes up. And I call it podcast product parody. He calls it the straight line test. I should probably switch to calling it the straight line test because it makes more sense, it's easier to remember. And the idea is there should be a straight line between the stuff that you are talking about in your content and what your product and service does for people. It should be the exact same thing. There should be parity podcast product parody. So there's four ways that I see entrepreneurs mess this up all the time again when their goal is to use their podcast to drive leads in sales. And so these are the four. The first one is the interview trap. Everybody seems to think that podcast is the same thing as interview. So entrepreneurs that launch a podcast, what they do inevitably is they Launch a weekly 45 minute interview show where they interview successful people on how they became successful. Most of the time those interviews are not directly related to the product or service that they sell at all, or it's not related enough. And I've seen this many, many times. I recently spoke with someone who is an online branding expert and he launched a show about how people became successful. And the show was not getting much momentum. And I spoke with him and I was like, dude, you know a lot of stuff about branding. You have a solid social media presence about branding, a really, really significant social media audience about branding. Why is your podcast not about branding? Like, if your goal is to grow your business with your podcast, make it about the same thing. He said, oh my gosh, totally. And now he actually joined the academy and he's working on rebranding his show right now. And he's not going to do interviews anymore. At least not as many. And not the same kind. There was another entrepreneur that I worked with. She owned a bookkeeping agency. And same thing. Her show was not bringing leads and sales to her business as much. And. But her show was not about how entrepreneurs can manage and track their finances. It was interviewing other entrepreneurs about their money beliefs. Totally different thing. So that's the first pitfall that I see, is that entrepreneurs default to interviews, and the interviews are not related at all or not related enough to the product or service that they sell. Once again, you want your podcast to have a listener mission, which means you can say, if you listen to this podcast every single week, this is what you are going to be able to do or become or achieve or feel or know. Whatever it might be. It is a promise that your show makes to its listeners. The promise that I make in every episode is this is the podcast that will help you grow your podcast. Every single thing I do on the show is to help grow your audience and make you more money from that audience. If your podcast is not a straight line, if it is not directly related to what your products and services is, that's okay. But just understand that it's just not going to drive the leads and sales that you want it to. So, number one is the interview trap. The second way that I see this messed up is when it's an entrepreneur who serves, who has multiple businesses or serves multiple avatars in their businesses. And this is tough. There was one entrepreneur that I spoke to that has three different hustles that he's working on. Three totally different businesses that have three completely different avatars, three different transformations, because you need both to be the same. The avatar, who the person is and where it's looking to take them. So this person had a podcast, and on that podcast, he tries to regularly touch on all three of his businesses and talk about how people can do what he does in those three businesses. But the problem is those are three separate people that are interested in that stuff and those three different destinations that those people want to get to. So that should really be three separate podcasts. And I've actually seen this done before on massive shows. Way back in my early days of podcasting, I befriended one of the producers on a huge meditation podcast. Like massive. Millions and millions of downloads. This is like 2018. I actually haven't talked to that person in a long time. But he was the main producer behind the show, and it was just really cool to be friends with him. And he gave me a behind the scenes look on everything. And they had gotten to a place where their podcast was serving too many avatars. It was serving beginner meditators, and it was serving advanced meditators. And there was also a third category in there that escapes me. And they actually split the show. They were really smart. They split the show into three separate podcasts because you want every podcast p to be one avatar, one transformation. Again, if your goal is to drive sales. We'll get back to the show in just a moment, but first a quick question. Are you pouring your heart into your podcast but not seeing the growth or engagement that you hoped for? Well, imagine if there was a way to not only grow your podcast audience, but also create better content more efficiently and unlock the secrets to transforming listeners into buyers, aka monetize. Well, there is a way. It's called the 12 days of podcast Growth. It's an email course that is completely free and packed with everything that I know about how to grow your audience in 2024, how to make captivating content in less time, and the strategies that I use to drive over 2.5 million in sales from my podcast to my business. This email course is your golden ticket to elevating your podcast game and in turn getting more clients and customers. It's just 12 days and every day you'll receive a bite sized email lesson straight to your inbox that'll give you the tools that you need to achieve remarkable growth. So if you're ready to learn how to take your podcast to the next level, just go to 12days ofpodcast growth.com or you could just click the link in the show notes, enter your email and you will receive the 12 days of podcast growth from me. All right, that's it. Let's get back to the episode. The third way that I see this messed up is an entrepreneur who has an in person business and an online business. Or they just have an in person business and you know their goal is to get leads and sales to their in person business, but they have a podcast that is not in any way related to where they live. I've seen podcast content studios who they have an in person studio where they're looking to get leads and sales of people that will come into their studio and use it. But their podcast is about podcasting or it's about content or it's about marketing. The vast majority of their audience is not in the same city that they are. And so if you're an in person business, this is the blessing and the curse, I guess. Of podcasting is that you can reach people all over the world. That's a blessing. But the curse is that most of the people that you reach are not going to be close enough to use your in person business. I've also worked with entrepreneurs who have in person practices like doctors or therapists or whatever it might be. And the ones who I have seen have success with their podcast driving revenue through product sales comes from them either also having an online business which isn't reliant on their in person practice, or them launching an online business that isn't reliant on their in person practice. If you are somebody who does have an in person business, then the podcasts that I have seen actually work to drive leads and sales to that in person business are when the podcast is somehow about where you live. So I've seen a couple real estate agents do this. Well, where they have a podcast that's about the city that they practice or sell in and the show isn't about real estate, it's about the city. But they become well known as a real estate agent and so they get tons of business from being that person on the show. I've seen investors do the same thing where they do a podcast about their locale and then more investment opportunities come to them. Again, the podcast is not about investing, it's about the locale. So number three is if you have an in person business, this is where this gets a little hairy. The fourth one, which I would actually say is the second most common number one is the most common, the interview trap. But the fourth one is an entrepreneur who wants to have their cake and eat it too. So this is usually an entrepreneur who has a degree of success and or they've been working on the same business for a long time, five years or more, and they're getting into podcasting and they see the podcast as their opportunity to branch out and show the world that they are more than just the CEO of whatever business they have. And it's their opportunity to finally talk about something other than what their business does, their other interests, whether business related, you know, broadening out to just overall business or something else in their life, like health or fitness or sports or music or something, or art. You know, they feel like they have more to offer. They're a well rounded person and they want the world to know that and they want to be able to talk to and about amazing things that are not related to their business. However, they also want their podcast to drive sales to their business. So they're like, yeah, I want to talk about whatever I want to talk about, but I also want to make sure that this podcast brings me sales, that people buy my stuff so that I can justify the expense. That's usually what it is. They want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to talk about whatever they want to talk about, but they also want the show to drive tons of business so that it can be profitable. And so what I say to that is, look, you need to pick one of these. You either need to if you want your podcast to drive leads and sales to your business, the podcast needs to be about the same thing that you sell. You have to have podcast product parody. There has to be a straight line. The podcast has to help people do the same thing that your products and services help people do. So if you want this to be a direct marketing play for your business, the show has to be about what your business does. If you want this thing to be your opportunity to branch out and interview people from all walks of life and talk about your many, many different interests, you can do that. But just understand that it is not going to drive leads and sales to your business. You are going to have to either be okay with the thing losing money or monetize it in a different way. And by the way, in that case, you still need to declare a listener mission. Even though you want it to be what you want to talk about, you still, if you want people to listen to what you talk about, you have to make it about them and what they want. Talk about whatever you want to talk about as long as it helps them do what they want to do. So again, like with that type of show, it's either not going to be monetized, in which case I'm like, look, you want to talk with incredible world class people and the show, and it's bothering you that the show is costing you a couple hundred bucks a month. Like, do you know how much people would pay to talk to those people the way that you're talking with them? People pay a lot more than a couple hundred bucks a month to have these conversations with people. So maybe it's okay that the show's not making money. You're still benefiting from it, right? Or understand that if you want the show to be monetized, you're going to need to sell the people something that is related to the thing that you talk about. Either a product or service that you launch or another company's product or service. It is the only way to monetize a show. Okay, so those are the four ways I see this messed up. It's either the interview trap. An entrepreneur serves multiple avatars and they try to make their podcast serve multiple avatars and it doesn't work. An entrepreneur has an in person business and doesn't understand the difference between in person marketing and online marketing. Or number four, that entrepreneur just wants to have their cake and eat it too. They want to talk about whatever they want to talk about, but they also want their audience to buy this very specific thing. So what do you do if you are one of those four people? Well, in most cases, if you want your podcast to generate leads and sales, there needs to be a straight line. Like Tom Bilyeu says, you have to have podcast product parity. So you're going to have to rebrand the show and talk about things that are related to your business. Again, if you want leads. So decide to do that or decide not to. If you want your podcast to be something that allows you to branch out and explore different topics or a different side of you, you need to be okay with the show not driving as many sales and potentially losing money. And that might mean you have to have the show live outside of your business. Especially if you have a team and they're like, why are we paying for this thing? For you to just talk about whatever you want to talk about, right? You might have to branch it out a little bit or branch it outside of your business and pay for it yourself. For most of us, we just need more parity and more clarity. Parity between what we're selling and what we're talking about, and clarity for the listener on what the heck that is. Right? And you need to have clarity what you're selling and who you're there to help. It all comes back to what is the listener mission behind your show. What will your show help your listener do achieve, know or feel? If you want your show to drive leads and sales, you need to make that listener mission the same thing as the transformation that your products and service offers. Now, the nuance here is that what really makes it work is when your products and services help the listener to do the thing right. So your podcast helps people understand what needs to be done. It helps them learn your business, your products and services help them do. I've seen plenty of entrepreneurs who have a podcast and they think that the way that they're going to monetize that podcast is by simply repackaging the information that's already available for free on the show into a course. And while to a degree that can work the repackaging is good. You're generally not able to charge as much as you think you can. So a great example of an entrepreneur who did this well was Tim Ferriss. Tim Ferriss for 10 plus years has interviewed incredible people on the Tim Ferriss show and he's released a couple books which include a lot of the insights that these world class people shared in a really organized way. But that book did not sell as a $4,000 course, it sold as a $40 book. Right. Tools of Titans I think is what it's called, and Tribe of Mentors. And by the way, he also did other work to get information outside of his podcast for that product. But if you're thinking that you're going to be able to put out a free podcast that gives people information and then they're going to pay you $1,000 for that same information just thrown into a circle community or a school community, it's not going to work as much because it's the same thing. The gold in place is, well, this what I'm doing, right? You listen to Grow the Show podcast, I give you all the information that I know about how to grow and monetize the show, how it support a business. When you join me in the Grow the Show Academy or the Grow the Show accelerator, you do get the same information and some more information packaged in a different way, right? So it's better organized so that you don't have to go through all of my podcast episodes and try and find all the information and piece it together that is there. But you also more importantly get other stuff to help you do the stuff, right? So it's the difference between teaching you what you need to know and helping you do what you need to do. Two totally different things. So that is the golden place where your podcast, unapologetically and without holding anything back, teaches people what to do. Your products and services help them actually get the job done. So I have two products I have to grow the Show Academy, which is lower ticket. It helps you through trainings and masterclasses and a community and the ability to ask me questions in that community and AI chatbots, everything like that. It helps you do the thing that I talk about here on the show. And then there's the Grow the Show accelerator which is more expensive and it helps you with one on one support with me, some done for you growth stuff, other things that cost me money to help you. That's why it's more expensive. And so my products help you grow and monetize your podcast and help you convert your podcast into a content marketing engine for your business. But it's not just information, right? It helps you actually do the thing. So in summary, if you want your podcast to drive leads and sales to your business, you got to have a straight line. You got to have podcast product parody. If you don't, you're going to make life way harder on yourself. And so my hope is that this information has helped you see, maybe have a little bit more clarity on either why your podcast is working or why it is not and something that you can do to get more leads and sales from your show. So that's going to do it from this episode. I'll see you in the next one that is going to do it. For this episode of Grow the Show, I have two things for you before I let you go. Number one, real quick, if you've ever gotten any value from the show, please, if you haven't yet, leave us a five star review. I get a notification every single time reviews come through and they almost always make my day. So please, please, I would love to hear from you. It really, really helps us. And then the second thing is, if you are a podcaster who needs help with production, if you are struggling with all the time it takes to make these things and you haven't yet, definitely set up a conversation with Podcast Boutique. They are the team that I've been working with for five, six years. They are my most trusted production agency and recently they added an incredible service that you're going to want to hear about. They call it Record and Forget. I've been using it for months. It is amazing. You just record your episode and send it to them. They do the content editing for you. They create titles, show notes, they can make it into an amazing YouTube video clips and of course, high value production. So the content editing piece is the thing that I know people have been asking for for a long time. It is unbelievably good. All I do is record, I send it off to them, they handle the rest. And by the way, they are also closely in lockstep with me. So anytime I discover something that is working to grow and monetize a podcast, I immediately share it with them. We work to implement it with my show and then they implement it with the other shows that they work on. So if you're spending time yourself doing any of the editing or post production, or if your current post production team isn't cutting it, maybe they're an internal team that doesn't know what they're doing or they're an external team that's either too expensive or does not keep their promises, which is very common. Check out Podcast Boutique. You can go to podcastboutique.com let them know that I sent you. One thing, though. It is Podcast Boutique, not the Podcast Boutique. So if you Google Podcast Boutique, watch out, because it is not the Podcast boutique. It is podcastboutique.com. all right, I'll see you in the next episode.