223 | How The Apple Top 100 Charts Really Work (And How You Can Rank) - Grow The Show

Summary

Chief Audience Officer Episode 223: How The Apple Top 100 Charts Really Work (And How You Can Rank)
Release Date: June 10, 2025
Host: Kev Michael

I. Introduction to the Apple Top 100 Charts

In this episode, Kev Michael demystifies the workings of the Apple Podcasts Top 100 charts, challenging common misconceptions and providing actionable strategies for podcasters aiming to leverage chart rankings for growth.

“Most podcasters think that the Apple Top 100 is based on downloads or show size, but that's actually not how it works.” – [00:15]

II. Case Study: Client's Unexpected Charting

Kev begins by sharing a real-life example of a client whose podcast unexpectedly ranked in the Apple Top 100 without any deliberate promotional efforts. This anecdote sets the stage for a deeper exploration of chart mechanics.

“This client was kind of shocked to see their show in the Apple Top 100 charts. They weren't doing any ads or anything special promotion-wise.” – [01:30]

III. How Apple Podcasts Charts Really Work

Contrary to popular belief, the Apple Top 100 charts don't reflect the overall size or total downloads of a podcast. Instead, they measure the speed of growth, specifically the number of new followers a show gains within a 24-hour period.

“The Apple Top 100 charts display the top 100 shows that are currently growing the fastest. They measure that growth by the number of people who follow a show on Apple Podcasts.” – [03:45]

Kev emphasizes that the metric driving these charts is new follows, not cumulative downloads or listener count.

IV. The Reality of Gaming the Charts

Kev reveals that the Apple Top 100 charts can be easily manipulated. Some podcasters resort to paying companies that use click farms to artificially boost follower counts, thereby securing a spot on the charts.

“You can pay a company a couple thousand dollars and they have basically click farms that go to your show and have a bunch of phones follow your show, and that shoots your show into the top 100 charts.” – [05:10]

However, he cautions against this approach, explaining that such tactics often don't yield the desired business growth.

V. Is Paying for Chart Position Worth It?

Kev argues that investing thousands of dollars to manipulate chart rankings typically doesn't translate into substantial business benefits. Most listeners don't actively seek out shows based solely on chart positions.

“Podcast listeners don't go, ooh, I don't know what to listen to. Let me go check out the top 100 charts. It's very rare.” – [07:25]

Instead, he highlights the social proof aspect of being in the top 100, which can enhance credibility and attract higher-quality guests.

VI. Using Chart Position for Social Proof

Drawing from his personal experience, Kev explains how charting boosted his own podcast's authority, even if it didn't immediately translate into explosive growth.

“From that day forth, I could say I was a top 100 podcaster. And most people don't know what you didn't know five minutes ago.” – [09:00]

This social proof can be leveraged to attract bigger guests and build trust with your audience.

VII. Strategies to Achieve Chart Placement

Kev offers several strategies for podcasters to organically reach the Apple Top 100 charts:

A. Selecting the Right Guests

Choosing guests who are not frequently on podcasts can be a game-changer. These guests are more likely to actively promote their episode, driving genuine follower growth.

“They really take your episode seriously because they haven't done this a million times. It is awesome.” – [12:40]

B. Choosing Niche Categories

Moving your podcast to a more niche category can increase the likelihood of charting, as there's less competition compared to broader categories like Business.

“If you put your show in the business category, it's going to be very hard to chart because the top business shows up there are spending thousands of dollars a month to stay up there.” – [16:05]

C. Engaging Audience with Contests

Hosting contests that encourage listeners to follow the podcast and take screenshots can organically boost follower counts, propelling the show into the top 100.

“He will do a contest with that show's audience... if you follow the show on Apple Podcasts and take a screenshot of you following the show, you're entered to win.” – [19:15]

VIII. Comparing Apple and Spotify Charts

Kev contrasts the Apple charts with Spotify's Top 100, stating that Spotify's rankings are based on show volume, listens, and followers, offering a more accurate reflection of a podcast's popularity and engagement.

“If you really want to see a top 100 charts that's legit and that's based on show size and engagement, check out the Spotify top 100 charts.” – [24:50]

He notes that Apple charts often highlight shows that might be manipulating follower counts, whereas Spotify's methodology rewards true listening behavior.

IX. Conclusion and Takeaways

Kev wraps up the episode by encouraging podcasters to use the Apple Top 100 charts as a tool for social proof rather than a sole indicator of success. He advocates for aiming to rank on Spotify's charts for a more genuine representation of a podcast's reach and engagement.

“Go ahead, get your show on the top 100 Apple charts. Get that screenshot, get that social proof. Then let's all work together to get our shows on the top 100 Spotify charts.” – [27:30]

Key Insights:

Apple Top 100: Measures the speed of new followers within 24 hours, not total size or downloads.
Social Proof: Being on the charts enhances credibility, attracting higher-quality guests and potential listeners.
Strategies for Charting:
- Guest Selection: Opt for guests who will actively promote their episode.
- Niche Categories: Reduce competition by choosing a more specific podcast category.
- Audience Engagement: Utilize contests to encourage followers and screenshots.
Avoiding Pitfalls: Refrain from paying for fake followers as it rarely leads to sustainable growth.
Spotify vs. Apple: Spotify charts offer a more accurate measure of popularity based on genuine engagement metrics.

Final Thoughts:

Kev Michael provides a comprehensive breakdown of the Apple Podcasts Top 100 charts, debunking myths and offering practical advice for podcasters aiming to leverage chart rankings for business growth. By focusing on authentic strategies and understanding the true drivers behind chart movements, podcasters can effectively use these rankings to enhance their show's credibility and attract meaningful growth.

Transcript

Kev Michael (0:00)

I am a top 100 podcaster. Wouldn't it be cool to say that? Well, it actually might be easier for you to say that than you think. You see, most podcasters think that the Apple Top 100 is based on downloads on show size, but that's actually not how it works. And that misunderstanding is causing those podcasters to miss out on one of the most powerful credibility tools in the game. Because if you know what really drives the Apple Podcasts charts, you can reverse engineer your way onto them and use that exposure to book bigger guests, build authority, and sometimes grow faster. My name is Kev Michael. I am your chief audience officer. My goal is to help you build an audience of buyers. And in this episode, I'm going to explain how the Apple Top 100 charts actually work, why most creators get it wrong, and how you can use it to your advantage, even if you're just starting out. So here's what we're going to cover. First, I'm going to share a real story of how a client of mine ranked in the top 100 without even trying to. Then I'm going to explain the one metric that actually drives the Apple charts. And finally, I'll give you a simple system to engineer your own chart worthy moment. Let's do it. Okay, so just yesterday I was speaking with one of my one on one clients. This client launched a show three months ago. The show's doing very well. They have about 25,000 subs on YouTube, and just a couple of weeks ago, they ranked in the top 100 US for technology, which is kind of a big deal. Technology is a significant category. And what's funny about this is this client was kind of shocked to see their show in the Apple Top 100 charts. They weren't doing any ads or anything special promotion wise. And what also surprised them is that nothing really happened after they were on the chart. And so they asked me, what the heck, how did they get on the charts? What does that mean? Is this good? Is this bad? And why didn't they grow like crazy? They were on the top 100 charts. I said, okay, okay. The first thing you need to understand about the Apple podcast charts is that they are not about show size. They are about speed. So The Apple Top 100 charts display the top 100 shows that are currently growing the fastest. And they measure that growth by the number of people who follow a show on Apple Podcast. Now, this used to be called subscribe. It used to subscribe to podcasts. Then at some point, Apple changed it to follow. But if you open up the Apple Podcasts app and you look at a show, there's a follow button, and so you can click the follow button. So if you pull up the charts right now, the shows that are charting are not the ones that are the biggest. They are the ones that have gotten the most new follows relative to their current follows within the past 24 hours. This is why there's so many shows that have no listenership on the top 100 charts. If you look, especially if you go to business right now, if you pull out Apple, you look at the business top 100 charts, you're gonna see a bunch of shows with mediocre artwork. And it's just like, you look at the show and you're like, there's no way this is that good. And it's not. What those people have done is they have paid companies that engineer this. So this is really easy to game. The Apple podcast charts, they're very easy to game. Hopefully Apple changes this soon, but you can just pay a company a couple thousand dollars and they have basically click farms that go to your show and have a bunch of phones follow your show, and that shoots your show into the top 100 charts. And so you might be asking yourself, well, is it worth it? Should I do that? Right? Should I pay thousands of dollars? I happen to have thousands of dollars laying around with nothing to do. Should I spend them on getting my show in the top 100 charts? Well, in most cases, the answer, I think is no, because it's probably not going to get you what you think it's going to get you. Because most people think that if their show charts, then all these people are going to see their show on the top 100 charts and be like, wow, I've never heard of this show before. It's in the top 100 charts. I should listen to it and check it out. Oh, my gosh, this is the best show ever. I'm gonna follow and listen every week and buy this person's stuff. That's not how it works. Nobody's looking at the charts except the people who are trying to be on the charts. Podcast listeners don't go, ooh, I don't know what to listen to. Let me go check out the top 100 charts. It's very rare. Most podcast listeners already have their grocery shelf full. They know what shows they wanna listen to. They know they don't seek out new shows. You have to bust into their brain and fight your way onto their grocery shelf. However, what being on The Apple Top 100 charts does give you is social proof and credibility. My show grow. The show accidentally charted in, I think it was 2021 or 2022, and it got up to like 57 in the US entrepreneurship charts. And from that day forth, I could say I was a top 100 podcaster. And most people don't know what you didn't know five minutes ago. They think that that is a metric of show size. So when you get that, you get the screenshot, you take a screenshot of your show on the top 100 charts and then you say, look, everyone, look how big my podcast is. And because podcast downloads are not public, everyone's like, wow, that person must have thousands and millions of downloads. But you know that you don't, they don't. And that's okay. And what that does is it gets bigger guests to be interested in the show. So it works as a social proof play more than anything else. So if you do happen to land yourself on the top 100 charts, go ahead and get that screenshot and then scream from the rooftops that your show is a top 100 show. It's okay that not everybody knows exactly how this works. It's fine. Just tell them, just take the win, take the social proof. So how did my client accidentally chart on the Apple Top 100 charts? Well, this client happens to have a show that interviews people who are not often guests on podcasts. So if your show is a show that gets people who do a lot of podcasts, there are huge advantages to that because, number one, it's easy to get those people to say yes. Number two, they are much more familiar with being a podcast guest. So, you know, they'll generally know how to carry themselves. But one of the drawbacks is that they are not going to promote your show because they go on 30 shows a year. And if they did promote every show that they were on, their whole online presence would be, listen to me on this podcast now listen to me on this podcast now listen to me on this podcast. And it would quickly break their online presence and make it so that no, nobody wants to hear them on podcasts. So, side note, that's why your guests tend to not spread the word about your show. However, when you have guests on your show who are not often guests on podcasts, and you invite them on your show and they're a good guest with a decent sized audience, oftentimes they bend over backwards to promote their episode of your show. This is something that I noticed way early on with my Philly podcast. I was very surprised to See that? When I featured somebody who was Philadelphia famous, like a big name, those people never did anything to tell their audience or really anybody that they were on the show. But when I featured folks who were not as well known, those people would spend two weeks promoting the crap out of my show. And in those early days, those people grew my show the most. Counterintuitively, we think that getting a big name guest will grow our show the fastest. What I found is that there's a sweet spot when you can find a guest who is good, who is really, really good, has interesting things to share, but has not yet been on a lot of podcasts. It is rare, but those people are excellent. They bring tons of engagement. They promote the crap out of your show. They really take your episode seriously because they haven't done this a million times. It is awesome. It's hard to find those people, but it's really, really great when you do. So this show that I'm working with, that is the case, they have a show and they are interviewing people that are fairly well known in their industry. So it's a bit of a corporate industry and they're very well known in that industry, but they themselves don't have a huge online presence and aren't going on a bunch of podcasts. So these are incredible people with really great stories who have real good value to share. That's the other thing. Be careful. I know some of you are going to be like, oh, I should find people who have not been on a lot of podcasts and my show will grow. Easy now, partner. Watch out for people who are not interesting. You can invite anybody onto your podcast if they are amateur, if they don't have something unique, if they are not interesting, if they don't have good character, if they are not entertaining to listen to. It is going to harm your show, not grow it. You want to find that sweet spot where it's like, wow, this person is incredible. They've got new, unique value to share and they haven't been on podcasts before. So this show again, accidentally came across this. They published an episode with one of these guests and we're talking this is episode like maybe, maybe 10 or 11 of this podcast. It just launched a couple months ago and this particular guest went crazy promoting their appearance on this show on the Internet for a week and a half. They posted like crazy. Listen to this, listen to this, listen to this. And sure enough, that drove enough people to go check out the show on Apple Podcasts and follow the show on Apple Podcasts that the show cracked the top 100 charts in technology completely organically. Really cool to see. Congratulations to my client. I can't take credit for it because I didn't engineer this, but it was really cool to witness because it's these days pretty rare to see someone organically reach the top 100 charts because so many people are paying to be up there. So I told that client, the thing to do now is to take a screenshot, grab the proof that your show has charted in the Apple top 100 charts. And now whenever you talk about the show, say It's a top 100 technology podcast. Unbelievably cool to get that accomplishment in the first three months and a sign of great things to come for this show. But what about you? How can you chart on the Apple Top 100 charts? Well, there's a couple ways you can do it. Number one, we just outlined, you can try to find guests that are fairly new, you know, in that sweet spot. Another thing that you can do is you can move your show to a more niche topic. So some shows, for the sake of charting, will purposefully put their show in a category that has less competition. So if you're. If you put your show in the business category, it's going to be very hard to chart because the top business shows up there are spending thousands of dollars a month to stay up there. So you're gonna have to beat them organically. It's gonna be tough for you to do. But if you look at some of the really niche charts, those are very easy to chart in. And in fact, if you've looked around at other podcast growth services who say, we will guarantee that you chart in the top 100 charts, the way that they do that is they either or both move your show to a niche category, put something super niche as one of your categories, and then they watch to see if you chart in any country. And so if you get like 10 people to follow you in Bosnia, bam, you're in the. You're the number one show in Bosnia. And then they take a screenshot. Look, I've charted in the top. Another really cool tactic that I have seen that's a little more organic than just like gaming the system and paying for clicks is my friend Luis Diaz. When he launches shows with his clients and customers, he will do a contest with that show's audience. So he'll do this big contest at show launch where he will say, if you follow the show on Apple podcasts and take a screenshot of you following the show, you're entered to win xyz. And so you get the audience to do that, take screenshots, and then bang the show charts in the top 100 charts, and you get that social proof for good. So hopefully this gives you a little more vision into the top 100 charts. Maybe it makes you feel a little better about not charting in the top 100 charts, because, you know, it's all a game. Maybe it makes you feel encouraged because with a little concerted effort, you could probably get your show up there without having to grow it too much. And if you really want to see a top 100 charts that's legit and that's based on show size and engagement, check out the Spotify top 100 charts. That one is actually based on show volume, the amount of plays and listens and followers that it has. I think it's a much more accurate view of truly the top 100 shows. And I enjoy looking at it. And it's funny, when I look at the top 100 charts for business on Apple, I'm like, oh, look at all these people who are trying to pay to grow their personal brand. I'm not gonna listen to any of these shows. When I look at the top 100 charts on Spotify, I'm like, wow, look at these shows. These are the best of the best. I should check these out. So, number one, go ahead, get your show on the top 100 Apple charts. Get that screenshot, get that social proof. Tell everybody in your life who hasn't listened to this episode of chief audience officer that you have a huge show. Then let's all work together to get our shows on the top 100 Spotify charts, because at that point, we will have done the thing. All right, that's gonna do it for this episode of chief audience officer. My name is Kev Michael, and I will see you in the next one.