Episode Summary: Grow The Show — Ep. 244

Title: Why Copying Top Podcasters is Bad for Growth (with Andy J. Pizza)
Host: Kev Michael | Guest: Andy J. Pizza
Date: November 11, 2025

Overview: Embracing Your Differences for True Podcast Growth

In this episode, host Kev Michael sits down with Andy J. Pizza, renowned illustrator and host of Creative Pep Talk, to unravel one of the biggest myths in podcasting: that copying the most successful shows leads to growth. Instead, Andy shares his personal journey and hard-won strategies, arguing that a podcast’s true growth potential comes from leaning into the creator’s unique flaws, stories, and perspectives—turning perceived deficiencies into brand-defining strengths. The conversation dives into practical frameworks for standing out, actionable advice for operationalizing authenticity, and a refreshing perspective on podcast discovery, growth, and longevity.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Pitfall of Imitation and the Power of Authenticity

[00:00–04:36]

• Kev Michael opens the episode calling out the pressure to emulate top podcasters like Diary of a CEO, Mel Robbins, and Chris Williamson, and how it leads to insecurity and invisibility for most creators.
• Andy J. Pizza explains that what makes us different—even our weaknesses or non-traditional backgrounds—can be a unique advantage:
  • "When it comes to trying to be interesting and trying to stand out, we really discredit and look over the journeys and the ways that we started not so great. Whereas those are the best places for us to be a guide to other people." — Andy [00:26]
• Andy shares his story as a partially colorblind illustrator who, instead of hiding this characteristic, found his quirky color sense became his signature style (and a source of compliments).

2. Turning Weaknesses into Strengths

[04:36–08:15]

• Both Kev and Andy compare experiences of being unable to relate to experts who’ve never struggled, underlining the importance of relevance and relatability.
• Andy reiterates that embracing your limitations or outsider status (like being based in Ohio, not LA or NYC) connects you with a specific tribe—others who need a guide on the same journey.
  • "If you are willing to be vulnerable with these are the things that... I don't know or I had to overcome. Now you're speaking a language to people that also need to go on a journey." — Andy [06:40]

3. Breaking Free from Your Heroes

[08:15–12:36]

• The creative journey often begins with imitation, but true distinction comes from eventually diverging:
  • “You spend the first half of your creative journey chasing your influences and the second half running away from them.” — Quoting Miles Davis [08:19]
• Andy tells the story behind his unique moniker, "Andy J. Pizza," as a concrete moment of stepping away from traditional expectations and embracing what makes him memorable—even if it meant disappointing his artistic heroes:
  • “You have to be willing to do stuff your heroes wouldn’t do, because if you won’t, your thing is not different.” — Andy [11:41]
• Kev relates, discussing the “voice in your head” from famous creators and breaking free from imagined expectations.

4. The Tactical Framework: From Comparison to Differentiation

[13:23–18:32]

• Kev and Andy collaboratively outline a practical method for identifying and embracing what makes your show unique:
  • Make a list of 3–5 “comps” (peer shows or creators).
  • Find what they all have in common; compare this to your own work.
  • Identify which gaps need bridging (necessary improvement) and which differences can be your differentiators.
  • Lean into genuine differences that serve a specific subset of the audience.
  • Example: Andy commissions music exclusively from his favorite Ohio band, and builds his show’s identity around his roots.

5. Trust, Longevity, and the Human Element

[20:28–22:38]

• Andy praises Kev for leading with ethics, groundedness, and a long-term approach, emphasizing trust over hype—an often overlooked yet powerful point of differentiation.
  • "You have kind of a masterclass in that trust level... You’re playing the long game, and that’s why you’re in the long form media." — Andy [19:10]
• Kev shares that the qualities audiences compliment him on most are often things he took for granted or even considered weaknesses.

6. Podcast Discovery & Growth: Reality Check

[22:38–27:57]

• Andy outlines how and why he began Creative Pep Talk:
  • “I started the show the same week Serial started… but I never thought we’d have ad sales or huge numbers; I did it to help me get speaking gigs. The podcast is a portfolio, a proof of concept.”
  • Andy advocates that podcasts are less about large-scale top-of-funnel discovery and more about nurturing deep, lasting connections with the right people.
  • “I have friends with millions of TikTok followers, and it didn’t solve any of their business problems.” — Andy [25:20]

7. YouTube as a New Home for Podcasts

[28:02–32:32]

• Both hosts discuss their move into YouTube, driven by listener/market shifts rather than discovery potential.
• Andy describes experimenting with formats and resisting the urge to chase virality; a few episodes took off, but consistency and authenticity remain his focus.
  • “YouTube is not just the best place to find new people—I did it because podcasting is working there.” — Andy [32:09]
• Both agree that podcasts are fundamentally a different emotional medium—not just audio versions of YouTube successes like Mr. Beast.

8. Podcasts as Companions, Not Just Content

[32:54–38:48]

• Andy reframes podcasts as “companion media,” whose power lies in emotional resonance and consistency rather than novelty or impact.
  • “A podcast is a companion. You need me to show up again this next week, and kind of tell you what I’ve been telling you, but in a different way… because either it didn’t click or you forgot it or you’re not feeling it.” — Andy [35:00]
• Both note that people develop relationships with podcasts the way they do with comfort books or favorite (even mediocre) sports teams; it’s about becoming someone’s favorite, not the “best.”
• They encourage hosts to ask what emotion listeners are hoping to feel before they press play.

9. Format Trends: Interview vs. Solo Content

[39:43–43:47]

• Kev observes that interviews are surging on YouTube, even outperforming solos for many podcasters—possibly due to evolving audience tastes.
• Andy reflects on how he evaluates his own content types and reiterates the value of focusing on mastery and consistency (“good every time”) over chasing the elusive “great” viral moment.
  • Paraphrasing Christoph Niemann: “Your job as a professional is to… do good stuff every single time. You can control that… What you can’t do is do great stuff every time. Great stuff is out of your control, but it’s more likely to happen if you continue to show up and do good stuff.” [42:15]

Notable Quotes

• “You have to be willing to do stuff your heroes wouldn’t do, because if you won’t, your thing is not different.” — Andy J. Pizza [11:41]
• “We really discredit and look over the journeys and the ways that we started not so great. Whereas those are the best places for us to be a guide to other people.” — Andy [00:26]
• “The majority of podcasters… their show is very copycat. It’s the same guests, the same structure. Nowadays, everyone’s trying to be Diary of a CEO.” — Kev [13:47]
• “I started the show the same week Serial started… but I never thought we’d have ad sales or huge numbers; I did it to help me get speaking gigs.” — Andy [22:52]
• “The job is you have to be willing to kind of disobey the rules and come up with your own.” — Andy [12:53]
• “A podcast is a companion… You need me to show up again this next week… That’s how you become…someone’s favorite.” — Andy [35:00]
• “Your show doesn’t need to be the best show, but it needs to be someone’s favorite show.” — Quoting Jay Acunzo, cited by Kev [33:51]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Topic/Segment | |--------------|------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00–04:36 | Why copying top shows keeps you invisible; Andy’s colorblind story| | 04:36–08:15 | Vulnerability, relatability, and unique journeys | | 08:15–12:36 | Escaping your influences—becoming truly original | | 13:23–18:32 | Framework: Compare, spot the gap, embrace difference | | 20:28–22:38 | Building trust, the importance of a grounded approach | | 22:38–27:57 | Podcasting as portfolio & depth, not vanity metrics | | 28:02–32:32 | Moving to YouTube, differences in medium and audience | | 32:54–38:48 | Emotional resonance, what makes podcasts “favorites” | | 39:43–43:47 | Interview vs. solo trends, focusing on craft over virality | | 44:03–end | Where to find Andy’s work, closing thoughts |

Memorable Moments

• Andy describing how his colorblindness led to a distinctive illustration style—initially seen as a deficit, now his superpower. [05:43]
• The origin of “Andy J. Pizza” as a creative, memorable (and accidental) departure from bland naming conventions; a lesson in owning what differentiates you, however weird. [09:39]
• Public invitation: Kev asks listeners to email the emotion they most feel before starting Grow the Show—a response to Andy’s insight on “emotional priming.” [38:33]
• Both hosts reflect candidly on insecurity, the grind of podcasting, and the relief of realizing genuine connection means outlasting, not outshining.

Actionable Takeaways

• Inventory yourself versus top shows: What can you do better? What can only you do? What “weaknesses” might be your best stories?
• Stop chasing top-of-funnel growth; optimize for trust, depth, and being irreplaceable to a specific audience.
• Experiment constantly, but don’t pivot for every viral spike; focus on doing “good” every time and let “great” episodes emerge over time.
• Lean into your roots, quirks, and honest stories—they’re the “hooks” that most stand out in a crowded field.

Where to Find More from Andy J. Pizza

• Podcast: Creative Pep Talk — Creativity, career, and the stories that shape us.

End of Summary.