71 | Dudley Delffs – The Art & Process of Writing

Summary

GrowLeader Podcast with Chris Hodges

Episode 71 | Dudley Delffs – The Art & Process of Writing
Release Date: February 17, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features a deep dive into the art and process of writing books for church leaders and aspiring Christian authors. Host Pastor Chris Hodges sits down with his longtime collaborator and professional writer, Dudley Delffs, to unpack practical steps, encouragement, and behind-the-scenes realities of getting your message from mind to manuscript to publication. The focus is on calling, process, industry realities, and the importance of honesty, passion, and teamwork in Christian writing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Importance of Passion and Calling in Writing

• Dudley Delffs opens with an essential truth:

  “If you don’t have the platform, you don’t have the name recognition yet, then you really must feel passionate about your message and getting it out there…be honest with yourself and seek God’s guidance on this.” (12:07)

  • Writing a book should be driven by genuine calling, not ego or the desire for recognition.
  • The field is crowded; passion and integrity are the foundation for the long process ahead.

2. The Book Writing and Publishing Process

• Writing for Impact, Not Ego:
  • Chris and Dudley note that even lesser-known authors can find success if they have a heartfelt message and commitment to quality.
• Traditional vs. Self-Publishing:
  • Dudley outlines two primary paths:
    • Traditional publishing, involving finding an agent, crafting a proposal, and pitching to publishers. (15:10–17:25)
    • Self-publishing, where you build your support team (editors, designers) and maintain control—ideal for entrepreneurial types.
    • Both paths require commitment and networking; neither is strictly “normal” anymore.
• Book Proposal vs. Manuscript:
  • Starting with a detailed proposal is often preferred; it demonstrates vision and feasibility and typically includes an outline and sample chapters. (17:25)
  • Chris recounts how his sermons and message series often become the foundation for book chapters.

3. Editor vs. Publisher – Understanding Roles

• Editor:
  • Handles everything from acquisitions (deciding to accept a book) to nitty-gritty manuscript improvement—organization, voice, grammar, fact-checking, and substantive editing (09:32–10:31).
  • Multiple editing rounds are standard and essential to refining a manuscript.
• Publisher:
  • Focused on the business and big-picture strategy: overall publication list, marketing, sales, and author relationships. (11:00)

4. Overcoming Self-Doubt & Finding Your Writing Rhythm

• Managing the Inner Critic:
  • Chris and Dudley agree that self-doubt challenges all writers, especially at the beginning. (20:03)
  • Chris:

    “I don’t think I’m a writer. I think I have something to say. But I don’t consider myself just this classic author…” (20:19)

  • Dudley advises just getting the ideas down, unfiltered, before worrying about editing.
• Personal Workflow Tips:
  • Chris shares he’s most creative in the mornings, using that time for new writing, and more analytical in the evenings when editing is needed. (27:42–29:10)
  • Know your individual creative rhythms to maximize effectiveness.

5. Three Steps to Get Started as an Aspiring Author

Dudley’s practical advice for beginners (21:23):

1. Get Your Ideas Down: Don’t worry about format or perfection—start writing.
2. Test and Share the Message: Use sermons, blogs, newsletters to see what resonates, then refine.
3. Build Relationships:
   • Attend conferences, contact publishers/agents, study books you admire—even email authors for advice.
   • “Look at the acknowledgments…don’t be afraid to send an email or just reach out. You never know…” (22:50)

6. The Partnership Between Communicator and Writer

• Chris describes his process:
  • Begins with outlines and “content dump” based on sermons.
  • Dudley “beautifies” and personalizes it, making the work engaging and accessible.
  • Dudley:

    “You’re so personable in telling a story, in being attuned to your audience...I wanted to try to bring that to the page.” (25:48)

• Good writing comes from teamwork and understanding both communication and storytelling.

7. The Value of Writing Even If You’re Not “a Writer”

• Writing books is both an act of service and personal development.
• Each book builds the skill for future projects (“developing the muscle…” 30:00).
• Dudley’s final encouragement:

  “Take the risk. And it is a risk…You’re going to feel foolish…But don’t let that stop you…Try to enjoy and engage and learn from the process.” (29:10)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If Sunday doesn’t work, nothing works. I mean, it’s not all about Sunday, but if Sunday doesn’t work, nothing works.”
  – Chris Hodges, on the importance of the Sunday church experience (01:26)

• “I think a lot of people want to produce this perfectly crafted manuscript the first time…and then when it doesn’t work that way, they get frustrated…that’s not the process as I know it.”
  – Dudley Delffs (12:57)

• “Writing a book should be driven by genuine calling, not ego or the desire for recognition.”
  – Dudley Delffs (12:07)

• “You developing the muscle then is why you’re able to write so much now…It’s not about the book you’re writing, it’s also about the books that are in the future.”
  – Matt (co-host), on the long-term value of starting (30:00)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [12:07] – Dudley on passion, calling, and the realities of the writing process
• [14:16] – When do you approach a publisher? Book proposal vs. manuscript
• [15:10–17:25] – Traditional vs. self-publishing; agent/publisher relationships
• [17:25] – Proposal elements: vision, outline, sample chapters
• [21:23] – Dudley’s three key steps for aspiring authors
• [25:48] – Bringing personal connection and storytelling from pulpit to page
• [27:42] – Chris’s advice on matching creative & editing rhythms
• [29:10] – Dudley’s final encouragement: Take the risk, engage the journey

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Episode Takeaways

• Anyone who feels called can write a book with the right motivation, patience, and partnerships.
• Start with passion, test your ideas, pursue relationships, and don't be afraid of the messy “first draft.”
• The process is transformative—developing your message serves readers and sharpens the author for future impact.

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For sample proposals and other writing-related resources, listeners are invited to email the show.

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Transcript

[A]

The process, Chris, I think really does have to rely on your passion. If you don't have the platform, you don't have the name recognition yet, then you really must feel passionate about your message and getting it out there. And I really encourage people to be honest with themselves and you know, and seek, seek God's guidance on this.

[B]

Well, hey everybody and welcome to the.

[C]

Grow Leader Podcast where we grow leaders that grow churches by helping them reach their full potential. So glad you're with us for this bonus episode.

[B]

My name is Matt, if you're brand new and I'm sitting beside my pastor, the one and only Pastor Chris Hodges. PC how are you? I'm great.

[D]

We just came out of a great meeting, didn't we?

[B]

We really did. I'm excited. Which totally ties into the entire episode today. It was just a lot of fun though.

[D]

Yeah. And we're going to let everybody else kind of get in on that meeting. You know, one of the things I hear all the time from pastors is that they would like to just be kind of this fly on the wall and watch some of the processes. Maybe you, you know, my lead team meeting or maybe a board meeting or something we do creatively. Well, you're going to get a chance to be a part of that today. We're actually going to let you in on a conversation that we just had in a meeting. More to come in just a second.

[B]

A purely creative meeting. We'll dig into you in just a second. Exciting time of year in the south of the North American continent. It's cold right now, but we're tired of it. We're ready for some warm weather. But we're excited though about some things that are coming up on the calendar very soon.

[D]

I'm extremely excited about something that we're doing for the first time and that is a one day grow conference on one topic. And so you can come and be a part of, you know, our delegates who are learning. It's a little bit more up close and personal because it's not quite, you know, the 4,000 pastors like we have at the end of July every year. This is a few hundred pastors that are gathering together that I get to be in a room coaching them on one single topic. And coming up on March 13th, the 13th, we have just the topic of the Sunday experience. We're going to talk all things Sunday service. One of the things that I get a chance to do, Matt, is get around to a lot of churches. Of course, we're coaching some churches and we're working on, you know, their systems and. But at the end of the day, if Sunday doesn't work, nothing works. I mean it's not all about Sunday, but if Sunday doesn't work, nothing works. And honestly I think there's loads of. Without being critical, there's a lot of room for improvement on the Sunday experience that I think can be refined, can be more anointed, can be more professional, can meet the needs of the people. And so we're going to talk about everything from worship services. How do you pick songs, how do you vet the song list to sermon prep, sermon series, which seasons should different series be in? Like when you're building out the whole sermon calendar. We're gonna talk about altar calls, responses, how to get information from people, how to get people to take next steps after a Sunday experience. We're gonna talk about all the way from getting them into the room, from greeters to parking to children, to coffee to all of those things. Announcements, where does those work? Best offerings? What's the best way to have offerings? In the new digital age, we live all things Sunday services. So listen to me, I'm telling you, you're gonna miss out if you don't come be a part of this, grow one day. And by the way, registration is going extremely fast right now. We will run out of space. So if you wanna come be a part of this on March 13th. March 13th, that's a Thursday. Come hang out with me for a day nine to four and we're gonna have an amazing time together. You can [e-mail] yeah.

[B]

Then also on April 1st we have the same thing, a one day, same day focused on next gen ministry. So all about student ministry and kids.

[D]

Yeah, because I believe personally that the best way to grow a right now is to take care of people's kids. Right. And if you have vibrant children's ministry where they're actually, if they give six years of their kids lives to the church that these kids come out when they're entering into puberty with a, with a biblical worldview, parents, parents will come to your church because that's what parents are very concerned about their kids. Same thing about students to have a great student ministry. I'm talking junior high, high school and college ministry. If that's great, I promise you you can grow a great new Testament vibrant church if you're focused on those things. And so we're going to tell you everything that we've learned about both children's ministry and student ministry on April 1. Same format.

[B]

And those days are Going to be incredible main sessions with Pastor Chris. But you also get a chance to rub shoulders with our teams, our worship teams, our production teams, our student teams.

[D]

Our sound people, our lighting people. Every person who actually touches those buttons are going to be a part of this in our breakout sessions. I prom it. You don't want to miss it. It'll be maybe one of the best experiences in growth and learning that you've had all year.

[B]

If you're a senior pastor, I think there's a tendency sometimes to kind of send your production person.

[D]

No, don't do that. Pastors come and bring those people. Because I'll have plenary sessions, general sessions, just for senior pastors, because you need to be knowledgeable even if you're not a musician. I am. But even if you're not a musician, you need to understand it so that you can lead it effectively.

[B]

Those are Grow Leader. One day they happen here on the campus of Highlands College, here at the Grandview campus. But then February 27th, before that, we're actually doing a Grow Leader regional in South Florida in Miami, Florida, which sounds amazing right about now.

[D]

It'll be amazing in March as well. So come. If you're anywhere in the Florida area, please register. Come be a part of this regional Grow one day. So basically, it's the Grow Conference that goes over three days that we've condensed into one single day. Again, great for you to bring your entire teams if you live in that area.

[B]

Any questions about any of that, feel free to email [e-mail] and a real amazing person will respond to your email and help you out. And we can't wait to get to know you and talk to you about it. All right, so the, the. The topic today I know nothing about, so I can't wait to jump into this.

[D]

Well, I don't know much more than you do, Matt, except that. That for the probably the past 12, 13, 14 years, I've. I've stepped into the. To the world of writing books. And one of the questions that I get over and over and over from pastors, when we're in these roundtable settings, inevitably I'm going to get the question, hey, I want to write a book. How do I do it? And there's a lot of different answers to that. But today we actually brought in my writer, Dudley Deltz, who I'll introduce in just a second. But I brought him in for the. He lives in the Nashville area, and he came in for the day for a creative meeting for several book projects that we're involved with right now. We have actually about four different book writing projects that I'm doing. The college is doing, et cetera. And Dudley not only helps me with my writing, but he also. We've hired him on a retainer here at Church of the Highlands for anytime we publish, even a letter, a contributions letter, or a vision letter, nothing goes to our people before it's gotten in front of Dudley's eyes. So he understands us, knows us, and I just thought, you know, we had him here for this creative meeting today to do all this work on my upcoming book projects. How good would it be for us just to grill him on some questions that I constantly get about, you know, how do you find a publisher? Do I need an agent? How do I get a publisher to even notice me? Do I need to work for an advance? How does. What, what, what's involved in advance? What does a book proposal look like? And, you know, what if, what if, what if I'm already known and I have an idea, but what if I'm unknown and I have a great idea and I want to try to get it? We're going to answer all these questions today, and to one of the smartest, honestly people I know. And Dudley, I'm just more than delighted that you're a part of the Grow Leader podcast. Welcome today, sir.

[A]

Thank you, Chris. It's a pleasure to be here. I look forward to talking with you guys and telling you the little bit I know about writing.

[D]

Well, you have a lot of experience, and now you are. You are, I would say just a freelance writer, but that's not the right way to say it, but that's what you do solely. But you've been in the publishing world for a long time. Kind of throw out that resume, let them know where you've been and your experience, and just tell them your background.

[A]

Yeah, thanks. Briefly, I've always been a book lover. Books were an important part of my life growing up. Loved to read, loved to write. Was an English major in college, Thought I'd have an academic career and did for a while. Was an English professor, creative writing professor. Just as I was finishing my PhD, a publisher hired me away to be an editor for them. And then I advanced from there and became vice president. And then the publisher is Onderman for a while. And the thing I love most was working with authors and helping them refine their message and, and translate their voice to the page because they could be great communicators, but may not know that certain things don't work on the Page so they can't write the same way they speak.

[D]

It's totally me, by the way. You just described, you described exactly how I feel. I feel like it's so easy.

[A]

I'm looking at you, but I wasn't looking at you so well.

[D]

Yeah, exactly, because it's so easy for me to get it out of my mouth and it's so hard to get it into my hand. It's the craziest thing. And you've, you've been such a blessing to me over the years. But explain to me, you use two terms that we're assuming people know what those are. What is an editor and what is a publisher?

[A]

Sure. An editor is responsible for a lot of different parts of the process of making a book that could include acquisitions. So they're your contact person that's going to say, hey, I think you're great. I really want to publish you. But they could also be kind of the nuts and bolts person with the mechanics of the writing process.

[D]

Once the manuscript is turned in, once.

[A]

You'Re turning it in, you know, thinking even about the big picture, the, the ideas, the structure, as well as some of the small pieces.

[D]

Because I had no idea when I first wrote that how many different rounds of editing would happen. Because there was just like the grammar round of editing. Editing. And then there was the fact checking round of editing. Like, hey, does this, is this really true? And can we cite that reference? And then you had this whole, okay, we need another story here. They were like, what do we call it? What is that called? When they're just. When they're just telling you, okay, this is good, but I need a little bit more here.

[A]

Usually we call that substantive editing.

[D]

Okay. So I, and I've had that where they said, okay, you've gone three pages without a good illustration or a story, and now. Or, you know, and we've had one of the books that you and I turned in that, my God, there was like so many red lines through. I was, I was almost devastated after I saw all of that.

[A]

Me and you both.

[D]

Yeah. And having to go through a. You know, it obviously didn't make sense. Sense to them or wasn't clear to them. And of course, all those are healthy. But then contrast that to what. Who's the publisher? What does the publisher do differently? Who are they?

[A]

The publisher is looking at the big picture of all the titles that we're publishing, the relationships with the authors. They're dealing with the business side of things and the big picture of the bottom line with the financials but ideally they're still very much engaged in the process of the individual books and titles and how those are going to be promoted and marketed to have the greatest impact.

[D]

So let's talk about the process. I mean, again, when people say, how do I get a book published? I just want to hear your answer to that. I mean, when they come to me and say, you know, if I'm, I want to write a book. And let's just assume these guys don't already have this massive platform because, you know, if you have a massive platform, just be honest. People don't, in my opinion. They don't. They're not buying the book, they're buying the author. You know, so even a publisher will sign with a very well known person just because they are who they are. They could write on just about almost anything. And it's the name that's selling the books, not necessarily the content. But what if you don't have that name and you really have something great and you really want to get it on page? What's the process?

[A]

The process, Chris, I think really does have to rely on your passion. If you don't have the platform, you don't have the name recognition yet, then you really must feel passionate about your message and getting it out there. And I really encourage people to be honest with themselves and you know, and seek, seek God's guidance on this. Yeah, because if it's just ego driven, I mean, it could work, but chances are great. There's a lot of obstacles. It's a huge field these days. Anybody can publish anything themselves or electronically. So there's, there's a wide open field. So I think if you are gonna commit to writing a book and getting it out there, you want it to be read, you want to have an impact. So be honest with yourself about what your motive is.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

And be passionate about it.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

And then commit to excellence. And that's going to look different for different authors. That might mean working with a writer, working with idea coach or a book doctor, somebody who can help you shape it and inform you of the details and the nuts and bolts. Or you may be a great writer and you can just sit down and crank out something. One piece of advice, if you are committed to coming up with this great passionate message. First round, don't try to edit it as you go, don't censor yourself, don't hold anything back. There'll be opportunities to do that down the road. I think a lot of people want to produce this perfectly crafted manuscript the first time they sit Down. And then when it doesn't work that way, they get frustrated and think, well, maybe I'm not supposed to, but that's not the process as I know it.

[D]

Yeah, they're going to redline it anyway.

[A]

They are. I mean, no, you and I, we did our best.

[D]

I thought we turned in something great. We went several rounds.

[A]

That's right. And then it got better.

[D]

So when does a publisher get involved though? So now if you want it published and you want it on bookshelves or you want it, you know, is, does, does the approach. Do they need to go after the publisher first or do they write the book in its entirety first? I never did. I actually did a book proposal.

[A]

Right.

[D]

So I didn't even write any of the book. I just put this proposal in front of some editors. I actually hired an agent. Yes. Who gets a, gets a pretty decent cut of the action to go out there and shop you around basically and talk to the different publishers, in my case about seven different publishers all camera to me on the same day. And I just every hour changed publishers and shared the book proposal with them. Then they in turn, the ones that were interested, I think my first time around, of the seven who came. So the agent got seven publishers at the table, four of them were interested and each one of them gave their own proposal back to me of what they wanted to give me in the form of an advance and, you know, a contract and things like that. And then I got to choose out of the ones who made that proposal. Is that the normal?

[A]

It used to be the normal.

[D]

Okay, what is the normal then?

[A]

There is no normal is the new normal. And I would say generally it's going to go one of two major directions. One is like you just described, which is more traditional, more conventional. There are still publishers and big publishers who are looking for passionate communicators who have a growing platform, who have leadership, who have presence and have something to say. And so that's still very much a viable option. And you know, conferences, seeking out an agent, however you want to pursue that the other way. If you're more entrepreneurial and you are kind of good at doing things for yourself, you don't have to have a publisher or an agent. You can subcontract and find individuals and agencies who can do every part of the process with you in terms of producing the book, from conceptualizing it to writing, editing, typesetting, typesetting, the whole, the whole thing, everything. And of course there's a lot more work for you, but some people like that level of control and that hands on. And then. And some people prefer having the relationship and, you know, having someone that's had some experience, hopefully some expertise and can guide them and help them collaborate and make a decision to have the biggest impact with.

[D]

Because a lot of great authors right now are self publishing, so they're kind of going through that process. I still like the relationship with a publisher because, you know, I get not only the editing part and that, you know, they actually create the book with you, but they also. Or thinking through the. I get a publicist. Yes. I get someone who's thinking about, you know, what radio programs I can be on and podcasts I can be on. So I have. I get. I end up with a marketing person who's trying to get it, you know, you know, onto shelves. And in my case, I have, you know, some of my books are actually in airports, you know, things like that. So they're marketing your, you know, so I like that. But so if somebody wanted to go that way, is the. Is writing the book in its entirety important first, or is it what I did, like a book proposal, you can go both ways.

[A]

I think a proposal is a great way to start because that shows that you have a vision for the book and you have at least a rough idea of what the outline's going to look like. And you're providing at least a couple of chapters that give prospective editors and publishers a writing sample and they can see how you communicate and how it lands.

[B]

Is that normally. I mean, for you? I think it was an extension of your preaching, so that a lot of your book ideas have come from man. I've got 11 chapters on this, not just three sermons.

[D]

Yeah. And messages that really resonated. I mean, my first book I wrote, I wrote it still is my ministry philosophy. And that is the tree of the tree of life versus the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And so really that was the starter idea for a book that I ended up calling Fresh Air. And it really, again, it frames how I see all ministry. You could even say it this way, that that book is the bedrock book, the foundational book for all the other books that I've written, because it's the vehicle that I'm delivering all the other truths. And then I ended up with just different messages that really matter to me, like the four cups, which is how I see the spiritual journey that God wants to take people on through this Old Testament metaphor of the four cups of Passover. So, yeah, these were all ideas that seem to resonate in an Audience and for me, Dudley, what I do is I start with the chapter headings. For me, because my mind is very linear and I'm very list. I always jokingly say, if I have a list of everything I like, lists would be at the top of the list. And so I tend to start with my table of contents is the first thing that I kind of create so I can frame the book. And then. And then I write chapters, kind of like my preaching notes. First. I just put the content, you know, I want, you know, this story, this, this, this piece of research, this scripture or whatever. So I throw that, I dump, I do a content dump of it into every these chapters. And then, then this is where I bring Dudley in. Because I'm just not good at making it something women would want to read. And I'm not good with adjectives and beautifying it and making it sing a little bit. And that's of kind course, this man. Right. Which.

[B]

That's what we did today in the creative meeting today.

[D]

Exactly.

[B]

We went through a list of a future book through chapter titles all the way through.

[D]

Because I'm in the process of writing, I'll go ahead and reveal that I'm writing my principles book, my life principles. When I turned 60, I decided I wanted to write something that I could give to business leaders and my grandkids. I wanted to give something that were, I think, enduring principles that can change your life if you ever lived by them. And so I'm very excited about writing it.

[B]

There was one point in the meeting today where you talked about, I can only imagine never having even tried to write a book. But the inner critic voice, if you're not careful, probably gets deafening at some point because it's hard to lose objectivity about what you're writing yourself.

[D]

Yeah. And honestly, the critic voice in me. And I'd love for you to speak to this Dudley. I don't think I'm a writer. I think I have something to say. But I don't consider myself just this classic author who is just so good. I mean, English was my worst subject. Math was my best. So I'm way more absolute truth, kind of, you know, two plus two equals four bam. You know where English to me is? You can say it, say the same sentence a hundred different ways depending on your personality and your voice.

[B]

Right.

[D]

It's way so expressive. I'm such a bottom line person. It's difficult for me. Although I find that creative voice, whenever I'm speaking on a stage, I feel like I can move an audience and of course, you know, I, I trust that hopefully a lot of that's the anointing of God on my life to be able to communicate and. But it's. That seems so much easier to me. So that's why I have to bring in somebody just to, just to help me with that process.

[B]

So what is it? So the pastor out there, that's like, I think I do want to try this. I do, I think I do have something to say. What is the starting point? Like, what is even the mechanical thing you can do to even get started?

[A]

Three things come to mind.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think one is simply get down as much of your idea or your message as you can. And it can be as rough as it needs to be. Don't worry about being in proposal form or a certain template or whatever. Just write it out as much as you can. Describe your vision for the book. I think the second thing is to look for opportunities to share that message or to relay ideally some of that writing in some format, whether that's a blog, a newsletter, and in my case.

[D]

It was a series. So like when I did Daniel Dilemma, I preached a six week series on the book of Daniel. So it gave me this to see what was resonating with the audience and honestly what wasn't and where, you know, and so it helped me shape some of the chapters of the book.

[A]

Yeah, and what I love about that, Chris too, I mean, I think about the projects we've done, there's a personal relevancy, need, passion, experience, and then that becomes kind of something you teach out of and then that becomes something that the book expounds on.

[D]

Right.

[A]

So, and then the third thing I think is just looking for those relationships and those opportunities to network, to notice a writer's conference, to contact publishers, to ask someone, not Chris, but ask someone who their agent is or you know, how they got into the business. Become a student of the kind of books that you want to write.

[D]

That's good.

[A]

And you know, look at the acknowledgments. Oh, that's their agent, that's their editor. And you know, again, don't be afraid to, you know, send an email or just reach out. You never know, but just begin something to cultivate some relationships. Try to make an inroad.

[D]

In fact, one of the things we'll do as a bonus piece of adding value to those that are listening. If you'll email us Rowleader, I'll send you the file that I started with on how to write a winning book proposal. And I never forget opening this for the first time and thinking, okay, well here's the framework. This is what I've got to describe to would be publishers of, you know, of things that are going to get their attention and praise God. You know, my influence has grown and so it's a little bit easier now for me to make that pitch so to speak to a publisher. But when I was young in this and, and you know, not, you know, not very well known at all, that was very important to get their attention in that first part of the process.

[B]

Speak to the pastor who. Because I think a couple of your books specifically Pray first, which is one of the books that's been a tool as much as it's, I think the purpose has always been a tool more than it was. I just want to write a book.

[D]

Same thing with what's Next.

[B]

Yeah, what's Next, which is the book we give to people who make a decision for the first time they get a book. And if you want information about either one of those books, we can help you out with that.

[D]

Oh yeah, I never wrote those to be, you know, go to the beach and turn the radio on and this is going to entertain you for the next. This was always intended to get it in the hands of churches and pastors to be a tool to put into the hands. The one I'm writing now though is hopefully the sit at the beach and learn and hear stories of principles that have changed my life.

[B]

So I think just guys knowing for the man and the woman out there that have a book inside of them, sometimes it is the book that's like, hey, I want to teach you how to pray so you can actually grow as a believer here in the church. And sometimes it's the other book that, that is going to draw you into more of a, hey, I'm going to ponder my life and be more contemplative about steps I can take.

[D]

Yeah, and that's my, and my leaning is always toward the resource because I live to resource churches and growing Christians and that's just who I am. And. But let's talk about how much, you know, I've needed this. Right. What a writer brings to the table. Because you know what I give you and I always, you know, I give you, I give a lot of content and it's, it's my version of writing. But if anybody else read it, it looks like more like my preaching notes on a Sunday, which I have, you know, you know this because you get them every Sunday, about 10 pages of notes for a 35, 40 minute sermon. I mean, I have 10 pages of notes in case we have some technical mess up. And you, you actually have to finish the sermon on a Sunday. Hope that never happens.

[B]

But it has a couple of times. It's been okay, though. Never on purpose, I promise.

[D]

But I like to have enough content there, so. I love content, but, man, it's not, it doesn't sing, it's not beautiful. And I think that's what you bring to the table. Talk to us about how you do that.

[A]

Well, I appreciate that, Chris. I mean, you're definitely more left brain, I'm more right brain, and I think that's part of why we work so well together. But one of the things that I observed right away with you, yes, you're, you're, you have this brilliant mind. You're analytical, you're a bottom line kind of guy. You're, you know, hardcore on the teaching, but you're so personable in telling a story, in being attuned to your audience, to your listeners, to people there in your church. And you're thinking about the questions they might have, you're thinking about what it's like for them and you're connecting with them. So you're not just saying, okay, here it is. I mean, we've all had those experiences and they don't resonate, they don't last, they don't have much of an impact. And so you make it personal. And that relationship that you have with your listeners is just powerful and real. And so I wanted to try to bring that to the page. And, you know, it's not the same, but the storytelling. And again, I try to be an advocate for the people who are going to read your books. What questions are they going to have? Maybe they're a longtime believer, maybe they're new. The faith. What's the difference here? How can we try to make it as inviting, as appealing as possible as you go through this? And again, keep it true to who you are. If there's opportunity for humor, great. If it's something that was very powerful and emotional or poignant for you, we're going to share that. You've been very willing to be vulnerable in places, and I've appreciated that. And so, I mean, for me, I love it. I love it, man, because I mean, you trust me with your message that God's put on your heart. And whether it's out of a personal experience or just because you have a passion to provide a resource, the value and the impact is just very, very powerful in people's lives.

[D]

So I want to close today by you just giving someone, I don't know if it's a kind of a kick in the pants kind of go ahead and do it, get started. Like if they're hearing this today and they've been having a book inside of them, but they've never gotten started, like where to start? And I. And I'll give you mine before. While you can think about what you want to say to them before we close. And that is for me, I have found that I am most creative in the mornings. And so I spend my time with God. And then before I turn any device on, see any email or text, for me, it's always been best if I can go straight to my computer while I'm fresh. My brain is freshest in the morning and my creativity is freshest in the morning. I do all my sermon prep in the very early in the morning. So that's when I do my writing as well. The opposite is true, by the way, with my editing. So when I already have something back from you or back from the publisher and now I've got to critique it or fix it, I found my critical brain is more active in the evenings that I'm actually can fix something, I can solve something. I don't know, it's because I'm. I'm so excited to kind of end my day and I'm ready to solve that problem. I don't know. I found myself. I'm creative in the morning. I'm critical, more critical. And I don't mean that in the negative sense critical. I mean in the sense that I can, I can fix a problem. I can, I can handle more of the editing side of a book in the evening. So I even found my own rhythm of the time of day that I would do it. But if somebody has just got to get kicked off and started, kind of give them that encouragement today before we close.

[A]

Absolutely. I say just first take the risk. And it is a risk. And, and you're going to feel foolish or you're going to feel silly, or you're going to feel like there's nothing going to come of this. That's fine to feel that way, but don't let that stop you from just continuing to write, continuing to pursue the process of what it would be like for you to produce this book. I think the other thing I would say is try to enjoy and engage and learn from the process. It may not, probably won't be a bestseller, who knows? But if you're faithful in the process and you trust that there's something of yourself and your journey and what God wants you to learn in just doing this. That in itself often produces a better book. So take the risk and enjoy the process.

[D]

Yep. So good.

[B]

It's crazy that you starting the process with Fresh Air, which I think was your first book.

[D]

Yep.

[B]

Yeah, Fresh Air was your first book. You developing the muscle then is why you're able to write so much now. So it's not about the book you're writing, it's also about the books that are in the future that you're developing the muscles for.

[D]

Yeah, and one of the things we talked about today was actually doing a revised edition of Fresh Air, so more to come.

[B]

Dudley, we appreciate you. I learned a ton from you today in the creative meeting, especially about writer's block and how to get out of that jam. That was awesome. We're grateful for you and all you do for Pastor Chris and how you help carry that voice. We're grateful you were here with us today on the Grow Leader podcast.

[C]

For any questions for show notes for.

[B]

All the good things happening at Grow leader, go to growleader.com we hope to see you soon.

[C]

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