← GrowLeader Podcast with Chris Hodges
GrowLeader Podcast with Chris Hodges
86 | Lee Domingue - Kings and Priests: The Destiny of Pastors and Business Leaders - Chris Hodges
00:35:16
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- [00:01]
A
Hey, everybody, and welcome to the Grow Leader podcast, where we grow leaders that grow churches by helping them reach their full potential. My name is Matt. So glad to have you with us today. Today we're talking all about the relationship between pastors and business leaders and how they can accelerate the mission of Jesus on the planet. Which is good because I'm flanked by one of each. I've got Pastor Chris Hodges on my left hand side, the chancellor of Highlands College PC.
- [00:23]
B
I'm in my chancellor attire today. You know, we had chapel today, so I needed to to bump it up a little bit. But of course, I just like this six days a week anyway, kind of your everyday look. Yeah, it is my everyday look.
- [00:34]
A
You look great. And then on my right hand side, no stranger if you know Grow Leader, no stranger to you, but Pastor Lee, Domain Pastor Lee, we haven't done this as episode four. You're on with us. Episode four. It's been a while. We're glad to have you.
- [00:46]
C
Super excited. I have. I don't have my amazing blazer on, but I do have my master sweater.
- [00:51]
B
But we do. We're both sporting a little bit of the purple today.
- [00:54]
C
Yes. We are celebrating what's upcoming in a new coaching at lsu. Our Tigers are getting a new coach. Can I get a witness for context?
- [01:03]
A
If you're listening somewhere in Europe, you have no idea what we're talking about. They both love the same college football team here in the US we're both.
- [01:10]
B
From South Louisiana, which means we're not smart, we're fun, and that's the Cajun culture. And we both have a deep love for LSU football and we are happy to get a new coach. So anyway, we won't talk more about that, but we have been getting a lot of texts from our friends saying, are you happy about this or what do you think? I am excited about it.
- [01:33]
A
This could have easily been a college football podcast today because we were talking about it before we started recording. So we'll stop now. No more college football talk after the rest of the time. Do you want to talk about season of the year that we're in? Hope everybody's having a great time. Kind of closing out your years. We look towards 20, 26. Want to let you know about some things that are happening with us with Grow Leader. We are very close. Just a couple of days away from you hearing this podcast from our Grow leader one day here at Highlands College. All about small groups. We're talking all things small groups.
- [02:01]
B
I'm telling you, this is one of the one Day trainings that you really ought not miss. I call small groups the backbone of our church. It's above the things that we give to churches to help them be great churches, discipling churches, prevailing churches, biblical churches. It's having relational small groups. And it's probably the thing of all that we give them that has been the hardest for churches to implement, which is why we thought it's probably because we're not spending enough time teaching it in the conference itself. So we give one session. But what would it be like if there were a whole day of sessions and even labs just on one topic? And that is small groups. I will make the guarantee, Matt and Lee, that if they come, it'll strengthen their church again, make it a New Testament biblical discipling church like nothing else. So I can't recommend it more. Nick. And register@growleader.com yeah, growleader.com, i was with.
- [02:56]
A
A team this week of small group directors here at Church of the Highlands, already talking about the content that'll be presented there for. You'll have access to the teams there. And then in February, we have an incredible one day, same place here at Highlands College, all about teams. We get asked about teams.
- [03:12]
B
The number one question we get asked.
- [03:13]
A
How do you build a great team?
- [03:15]
B
And that's everything from hiring, firing, staff development, volunteer development, governance teams. Just literally teams at every level. It's going to be an entire day of how do you build great leadership cultures? How do you create leadership pipelines? It's going to be a fantastic. Again, it's the most asked question we get at. Grow Leader is all things leadership development. So.
- [03:38]
A
So Grow Leader is all tools. We want, we want to get tools into your hands, all of you pastors and leaders out there. So I'm going to mention a couple others. The first thing is you. We, we were at a roundtable not so many weeks ago, I think it was about a month ago. Which, if you're interested in being a part of a roundtable, GrowLeader.com will help you out there. And if you have questions, email us.
- [03:56]
B
Which is my favorite learning environment, by the way, is when you have 20 to 30 people in a circle and the people in attendance get to set the topics because we just do Q and A all day long. And it's my favorite. Cause you always know you're hitting the most relevant thing to their life because they get to ask the questions. Yeah.
- [04:13]
A
The topic that we're gonna talk about today came up in that environment and you actually took a Little bit of a detour from where you were gonna go because it was so prevalent in the room about this relational piece between pastors and business people. And then it came up again today in our monthly mentor call that you do every single month. Will you share a little bit just about that call and who can be a part of that?
- [04:33]
B
Well, actually, yeah. So every month I have some people who join me on, we call it MMPC Monthly Mentoring with Pastor Chris. And it's a one hour zoom call. It's a subscription style, you know, to be a part of this. But they're on this call and I always teach the most relevant to the calendar and what's going on in our church and our college right now. And then we open it up for Q and A so people, literally in real time, we're able to ask questions. And even for the questions we don't get to our team will answer them. And they're getting all this and then it's all the content's archived and then go back, watch it, show with their teams. And we shared some things, Lee, powerful in this call that I don't know that we've ever shared. It was all brand new content that we won't even have time to share in this podcast. Which is why I'm encouraging pastors to consider being a part of this next level of mentoring. And again, you can check it all out on our website@growleader.com, but we were talking about, we've talked a lot about, even on the podcast about year end giving, generosity, building legacy teams or kingdom builders or whatever language you want to use. But one of the questions that we've gotten asked is how successful is the relationship between the pastor and Lee? You call him the business leader, but when we say business leader, we're talking about the person in our church who has figured out how to make more money than they personally need. Now they want to invest it into kingdom places, right? Put it into the kingdom of God. And what is that relationship like? And what we were learning, Matt, is that a lot of the pastors are actually very uncomfortable with that relationship. And honestly, the business leader or the kingdom builder doesn't really get their pastor that there's a gap between the two. And so we spend an entire MMPC on the relationship between the pastor and this kingdom builder or this legacy team member. And if you go back into the Bible, there is a correlation of the kings and the priests. The Bible talks about we are a kingdom of kings and priests. Revelation, chapter one. You see this Relationship in the Old Testament of the priest, the man of God, or the person who carries the vision of spiritual developing, the spiritual development of the house of God. That God uniquely resources them with vision, but he uniquely resources the king or the business leader, the market person with resources, provision, and vision and provision have to come together, but if there's a gap between the two, that oftentimes it doesn't happen. And so, and as we were discussing, I thought it's been so long since Lee, who is, you know, really a part of this Grow Leader vision as much as anyone, and is, you know, just huge part of all things that we do with Grow Leader man. We need to get him on the call because people don't. A lot of people don't know, Lee, that you weren't always a pastor, that you weren't always a leader at Grow Leader and the legacy pastor at Church of the Highlands, that you are a kingdom builder. In fact, I hope you don't mind me saying this, but you still are. God has uniquely blessed you have a supernatural gift from God to generate more resources than you need. And for years, long before you were on staff at Church of the Highlands, long before there was the word pastor in front of your name, man, God had given you a vision to be a king in the house of God and to come alongside the vision of your pastor. And, bro, you developed material that actually was what put us together in the first place here at Highlands, because I invited you to come speak as a.
- [08:11]
C
Business Leader, that's right, 11 years ago.
- [08:14]
B
To our legacy team to share your story. And I think that's a good place for us to start, honestly. Would you just kind of tell your story before we get into the content of how pastors and leaders can have these relationships that actually work, can you kind of tell your story, your journey from market place to ministry? And, and, and I'm going to ask you, Lee, to even be a little bit, if you don't mind, transparent and bold. Even how God uniquely blessed you. You don't have to say the exact amounts, sure. But, bro, you were good at what you did. I mean, you know, you still are, but, I mean, you, you, you knew how to, you know, you knew how to make money and you knew how to invest it in the right places.
- [08:49]
C
But even, even, even making money, making money never came hard, honestly. And I say that with the utmost humility, it never came hard. Finding purpose, finding fulfillment was a different ball game.
- [09:02]
B
Wow.
- [09:03]
C
And so for 40 years, I've been in business. Over 40 years, my first business I started in the mid-80s, was very entrepreneurial. If you back up, my mom would tell you. The first business you had, Lee, was selling ice cream. You convinced the ice cream man at 7 years old to front you the ice cream. And I resold it in the neighborhood.
- [09:20]
B
For an additional profit, obviously.
- [09:22]
C
But I forgot to pay the ice cream man one time. And so he came knocking at my door one night, and my dad paid the bill, and then he collected it from a backside. But that's a true story from seven years old, but very entrepreneurial, but was in church asking myself this question, where do I fit? I'm busy Monday through Friday. I'm trying. I'm longing to do something great for God. I have this deep yearning that the closer I got to God so that the better my church discipled me in my relationship with the Lord, the more I wanted to quit what I was doing to. To go into this ministry, because I thought that that's what you're supposed to do.
- [10:01]
B
Isn't that interesting? So you never saw your workplace as your calling. And that's one of the important connections that we need to teach.
- [10:08]
C
And it wasn't until. It wasn't until there were. There were two real defining moments. The first one was when a pastor looked at me because I had missed some Sunday services. And, you know, you miss Sundays in the South. You feel like you're going to go to hell, and that's how people make you feel. And so I had missed some Sundays because I was trying to close this major bank on our technology, and it was going to change the trajectory of my life, my financial future and everything. And I remember walking into the foyer of our church in Baton Rouge, and I was avoiding my pastor because I felt guilty because I had missed three Sundays. He corners me and says, hey, man, where you been? We miss you. And all that. And it made me even feel worse. And I'm like, well, Pastor, I'm so sorry I miss church. I'm trying to close this deal. And PC, he looked at me and he said this. He says, are you kidding me? You can do more for our church closing that deal than you ever could. Come into my men's night, my brother. What you do for a living is a holy calling. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, I just make money. I'm in the financial technology business. Like, how's that redemptive? And it's this whole idea of pastor setting vision for their church, but business people setting pace.
- [11:23]
A
That's great.
- [11:24]
C
And so then I'm on this journey of trying to figure this out. And I started studying how God used Joseph and Pharaoh, how God used kings and priests, how he used Saul, and he used Samuel. But then Saul got cocky, Saul got arrogant. Saul decided, I don't even need Samuel. I'm gonna pray a prayer of blessing in scripture. And it cost him everything. Because God is a God of order. So God started kind of showing me this, how pastors and business people, their destinies are tied. Like if.
- [11:59]
B
Say that again, though. Cause I don't think. I think people miss that, that the destiny of both are tied. Because I think sometimes we use business leaders just for what we need on our side. You know, they have money and we have real vision. You know, they're just out there making money. But you actually had a destiny that was tied to what. You explain that a little bit more.
- [12:20]
C
A man told me this one time who was quite prophetic, but he told me this one time, he said, lee, he goes to the degree a pastor and a business person honor each other's giftings and calling is the degree of God's favor on their endeavors together.
- [12:36]
B
I love that.
- [12:37]
C
To the degree a pastor and a business person honor each other's giftings is a degree of God's favor and the level of favor in that relationship. So watch this. So if that's true, I would say it's mutual respect born out of mutual need. Pastor's greatest limiter. Many times, sometimes it's under vision, sometimes it's maybe not great stewardship, but most of the time, there's a resource limitation, and that resource limitation is sitting right in front of them. But you've got to bring both the. The sacred and the secular together, meaning pastors and business people coming together. One setting for giving vision, the other provision. And then what happens is you see this great fulfillment happen. Because I truly believe that a pastor holds the key. And don't miss this. Pastors who are listening. Pastors hold the key that unlocks the door destiny for their business people and Christian business people in their church. Because it's a partnership. God has created a covenant relationship. I'd say it this way. I think the most untapped, unrealistic resource in the body of Christ today is the relationship between a pastor and a businessman.
- [13:49]
B
So how do they do it, Lee? Let's break it down. Because those are phenomenal principles. I 100% agree. But if a pastor is listening right now and saying, how do I validate them? How do I let them know how important they are? How can I Help them see their destiny. What would you say?
- [14:04]
C
Yeah, I would. One, you have to invite them. You have to invite them to the table. One thing which was the second moment that a pastor. And it was you, PC that said this to me. You looked at me one day and you said, you know, you have a spiritual gift of giving. Nobody ever told me I'd been generous for 25 years, had given millions of dollars to my church. Not just a millions of dollars, right? And so I'm sitting here going, what's a gift of giving? And he goes, no, it's in Romans 12, six through eight. And I'd read Romans 12 a hundred times. I had missed it. And business people miss it. So they need to be affirmed. So a pastor can start out with, number one, affirming them in their calling, like meeting with them and saying, you know what? I see something in you that you may not see. You're really good at business. You're gifted at that. Do you know that? God has gifted you for his purposes? So it was you that said, lee, you have this gift of giving. And I'm like. And when I validated that in scripture, I was like, the bell started just going off.
- [15:11]
B
I love that.
- [15:11]
C
It's why I love being generous. Whether it's to us, to a waiter, whether it's to my church, it's just hardwired. And then it's this journey of God's called everybody to be a worshiper, but some people have a gift for it. That would be Chris Tomlin, not me.
- [15:29]
B
Yeah, God's called. So we all sing, we all worship, but some have the gift.
- [15:33]
C
And it's the same thing with generosity.
- [15:35]
B
Exactly.
- [15:35]
C
It's God's called every one of us to be generous, but some people have a gift for it. That's a segment of people that are hardwired by God. And let me say this to your business people, Pastor, affirm them in their calling, but give them a place to play. Give them a place. Help them see the lane inside the local church that they can run in. And you've got to learn their dialect. And this is a big one. Most pastors where their biggest Achilles heel in business people is they're either intimidated by them or they're sitting there going, I don't understand them. Which can cause even intimidation. So it's. I don't understand them. So you've got. It's on you, pastor, to get into their world. And so I use an analogy. There's a lot of dialects of different languages, but in Chinese languages, the Primary two are Mandarin and Cantonese. And you can be Chinese and understand one and not the other.
- [16:29]
B
Well, Pastor, and they all sound the same in some ways, but they're completely different at the same time. Yes, that's right.
- [16:33]
C
Yes. And so. So Pastor Chris can be speaking Mandarin and I'm speaking Cantonese. And this is something you need to know. Pastor, your business people, they're never going to tell you, never, that they don't understand. They're just going to be kind of shaking their head, not answering, not engaging. And you think because they're there and maybe give a little money that they're fully committed to the church when I'm telling you they are longing for more. They're longing to call to a deeper relationship. They're longing to be called to help me on this journey of discipleship. So when people will ask us and say, hey, help me grow my finances in my church, it's like, it's not a transaction, it's discipleship. It's taking them on a journey of discovery. Do you even know There's a spiritual gift of giving? It's taking them on a discovery of. Now I have a filter. And Pastor Chris wrecked my whole philanthropic giving model when I got here when he asked me the question of Lee, is what you're giving to gonna show up in heaven? And that's a deep discussion thought right there. That question has been the most powerful question outside of my salvation. Would you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior? That changed me because now I have a filter. And business people aren't disobedient sometimes. They just don't understand. And so it's our job to disciple them, help them on a road to discovery and then connecting to the very thing God's called them to. And it happens to be Monday through Friday. So put some value on what they do because they don't see it as more than a means to an end to have. It's more than a means to an end to maybe have money later, to do something great later instead of right now. And God's using them right now.
- [18:16]
A
Well, I'll make a bold claim that pastors and leaders. There is. There's a marketplace leader in your church right now that still is not connected what they do Monday through Friday with what God's doing supernaturally. And I want to know how you. There's a workplace theology in this and what you teach in front of people in big rooms. But how did you talk about some of the things that are in the way where you guys were able to bridge the Gap.
- [18:37]
B
Well, that's what I hope people are picking up on this, is that I had a role in validating Lee, but Lee has a role to validate what I'm doing. And then we needed to discuss where the barriers and the differences are. Like when I was writing letters to the church to explain our vision. Now I'm now bringing it to the business person in my church saying, hey, does this make sense? Does this even motivate you? Did I answer the questions that you have? Did this build trust? And oftentimes, Matt, the business people that I was asking, the letter I thought I so beautifully wrote about the vision of our church, they were like, man, it doesn't really make sense. And what about this? What about that? And I was so. And they felt such validation that I was saying, man, we're in this in partnership.
- [19:20]
C
It's we. It's we. It's the we. It's a we theology. And not just my own thing. Because if you don't help, this is kind of a. This is a. It's a warning. I'd say if you don't help a business person connect to Kingdom purpose, they're going to go create their own way of doing it. And it's called noble philanthropy. Right, Noble philanthropy. And God's called us to Kingdom work, and so noble philanthropy is noble, but God's called us to even greater things. So I wrote this down. You know, as I was thinking about, it's like it's more about seeing their calling than just their capacity.
- [19:54]
A
That's really good.
- [19:55]
C
It's more about. It's seeing it as a true calling. We see it in ministry people. We applaud that missionary and we affirm that missionary that's doing a great work. Well, we need to have that same mindset with developing our business people and to helping them see that, yeah, you're on this team, but here's the exact position in which you play and pastors, you have to be very bold and strong with your vision. It needs to be very clear. Clarity brings a comfort. Clarity brings this. It's like, I believe in it. Like, one of the things, Pastor Chris, that you have done for years, and even before I got at Highlands, you were sure of vision. You didn't know the timing of it, but you were sure. And so people buy into that when people are saying, there's a God confidence on this, because ultimately, what keeps people funding the vision and keeps people being a part of it is outcomes and wins. So it's really your performance. So did I hear God or not, Was that a God sized vision? And we got done because now there's life change. But if you want to disciple your business people, you need to set the table and let that happen. And a lot of times we're fearful because we don't fully understand.
- [21:06]
A
So I want to ask, just very, very practically, in the few minutes we have left, what is something that a pastor can do this week? I mean, right now somebody's in a smaller church.
- [21:13]
B
I was thinking the exact same thing, honestly, while we're talking, because, you know, some of the podcast listeners might even think, why are you even bringing this up now? Because this is the mode we're actually getting in a stronger way. We're in this mode all year long to disciple, you know, honestly, every gift in the church and especially those with the gift of giving. But in this year end season, you know, we're going to have more intentional conversations about some of the things that we want to do before the year ends. Our year end offering, we have a legacy event where we celebrate and thank the people who've been very, very generous over and above their tithe. At the end of the year, I am going to be writing this letter. Well, I guess now it's not me, it's Pastor Mark is going to be writing this letter, but I'll be writing one to all the people who are so generous at Highlands College, who we're communicating to them. And that's why I'm encouraging pastors. You know, we have so much material on this from the Kingdom Builders Virtual Intensive. That'll tell you how to build a legacy team through all these different resources. But I wanna make sure, to answer your question, make sure that we're putting in our calendar time. What do you do this week? Putting our calendar time to get with either some of our legacy and Kingdom Builders in a lunch type setting, a coffee setting, a legacy event setting so that we can share vision with them. And the keys for that is make space for relationship. Share the vision with specificity and impact. So not just what you're doing, but why it matters. Because what they don't want to hear are things like, man, hey, we need you to give so we can build a building. They're really not interested in a building. They want to know that, you know, 500 students are going to give their life to Jesus next year if we do. Oh, well, that's different. So we're giving not just the physical things that we're investing in, but also, but also the kingdom impact of those things, always establishing trust and Transparency. I mean, what do you need to see to make your decision? We're happy for you to see any of our financials, our reports, because Lee always says that it's the success of past vision and the competence and the transparency of past vision that gives the confidence for future vision. Does that make sense?
- [23:25]
A
You've mentioned this in the past. I think pastors and I can do this sometimes. We want to kind of highlight the positive and not talk about what's a struggle right now. And you've talked about in the past. I mean, to your. To your business people, they get it. If something's not going as fast as you want it to go.
- [23:38]
B
Right.
- [23:38]
A
The response from the pastor should be, what? How do we even talk about those things and bring them.
- [23:42]
C
A lot of times, if you'll share with certain. I'm not saying with everyone, but with certain people who are skilled in that area, they would long to help you resolve that problem.
- [23:52]
A
Right.
- [23:52]
C
And. But you got to be willing to share that with them. You know, if the church leads with. With vision and clarity, there's no competition.
- [24:00]
B
That's great.
- [24:01]
C
Only alignment.
- [24:02]
B
So I call that honoring their wisdom.
- [24:04]
C
Yes.
- [24:04]
B
So God will put around you people who have competencies and. And wisdom that you don't have. And I think some pastors, if you're insecure, they don't want to show that vulnerability to them when actually you have people right around. I mean, you've helped your own pastors over. You've been in several churches throughout your life, obviously, and have brought so much wisdom. You know, when they couldn't.
- [24:25]
C
They couldn't even save them a lot of money.
- [24:26]
B
Yeah. I was wondering if we had enough time to even tell that story. But there's some interesting stories. We'll just leave it at that. But I think one of the ways. I think I'd like to kind of wrap this up. And it feels like we flew through this time. Yeah. There's so much to say, and it's just a competency that we would long for churches to have, because, man, I truly believe that God wants to use the pastors and the vision they have to get it resourced. And this is a wonderful opportunity. And I sure hope you have a plan, pastors, in the last two months of the year to really communicate great vision. But years ago, the Lord showed me something. And Lee, I'd love you just to comment on this. Out of the story of the Queen of Sheba, and if you remember the story in First Kings where this very wealthy queen comes to me with Solomon and she would, of course, end up depositing a tremendous resource to Solomon. What caused that? And if the Bible gives us patterns, and I do believe it does, I think the story was true then, but it's also an enduring model for us for the future. There are three things in that story that I think it. I think there's three things in that story that show what my responsibility as the priest has to the king. And that the first is that kings are looking for pastors and leaders for priests for who have two things, both anointing and vision. Because the Bible says that she showed up there because of his relationship with the Lord. And I remember when you came to Birmingham, I mean, I invited you to come here just to speak at an event. You were just staying for a night, but there was something that drew you beyond. I mean, you can tell your own story.
- [26:11]
C
Yeah, God, at that moment, there were. I had taken two years off after selling the company. I had a liquidity event that set me up. Right. And so I took two years off. And I remember Speak coming and speaking here and going back to the Marriott Hotel that's across the street from this studio, and God speaking to my wife and I and saying, you're supposed to be here. And we wept. And it was like God had called us to Birmingham to come volunteer at the church. Well, what a lot of people don't know is the previous month, five individual churches invited me to come on their staff. Would you ever come, move here and be a part and everything else. You never did that. What you did. And I told you, I said, look, I think God's called us here he goes, man, you better make sure you're called and remember the place you were when God called you.
- [26:55]
A
That's right.
- [26:55]
C
Because it's going to get tough at times and you're going to have to remind yourself where you were. And I've had to do that a couple times. But it's been the joy of my life, coming alongside the vision that God's given you. And it's been the most fulfillment. But watch this. God's put an X factor of logarithmic increase because none of us are as good as all of us.
- [27:18]
B
That's so good.
- [27:19]
C
And so in that partnership, it's like God has just accelerated all the things that were in my heart. And you know what? It would have never happened if I wouldn't have aligned and being a part in Birmingham. But it was an anointing. There was an apostolic anointing and vision. I'm not trying to over Spiritualize it. But that's a fact. This church is known for reaching the world in the big C church. Well, if you peel me back, I have a love for pastors, I have a love for the local church, and I have a love for business people. So being here has put this accelerant. So business person, that's maybe business people who are listening, like, reach out to your pastor. You say, well, there's business people I know that watch this podcast because they tell me they do, like, start praying for your pastor, number one. Number two, go ask him to go to lunch and ask him, what is your vision, pastor, and how can I help you? And come alongside you?
- [28:13]
B
And let me get the opposite of that. Pastors, when they do, you need to share with them prophetically what God's shown you about the church. I mean, they're looking for anointing, they're looking for vision. They're. Look, she came to Solomon because of his relationship with the Lord. Don't miss that. So she wasn't coming there to write a big check. You know, she was coming there because you have a God and you have an anointing that I want to get around. And we gotta make sure we cultivate that. The second thing that she did, the Bible says, is that she was blown away by his order and excellence. She saw how he had a seating arrangement for the dinner that they were gonna have together, and she noticed that. And then she noticed how the utensils were laid out. So it was the order and excellence and success, which again, pastors. And I'll let you give the business leader side of that. This is kind of fun. We should have actually done the whole podcast because my job is to show that we know what we're doing with it. I can't just say, well, just give because I said so, and give because I'm the man of God. No, no, no. We're gonna. Let me show you. I'm gonna be accountable to you. I'm gonna show you the excellence. Let me show you the frugality. And worked very hard. You know this, Matt, that we worked very, very hard here at the church and at the school to show, man, we treat every penny with the fear of the Lord, and we're gonna make sure it's stewarded incredibly well. And by the way, let me show you the report of what you gave this year. People's lives, that people are looking for that level of order and excellence.
- [29:38]
C
Yeah. And I think excellence is up to the pastors. I think an excellence is the greatest gift. You can give your congregation. Because excellence is a separator. It just separates you from everyone else to sit there and say everything we do. And let me qualify. Excellence is not extravagance. We are never wasteful at Church of the Highlands. We are intentional. It's having an investment mindset, not an expense mindset. It's not walking in scarcity. It's walking in a God confidence. But we're putting big vision out there of not only what we're doing today, but what we could do if. Well, as pastor now, Mark, setting this. Pastor Mark setting it with a vision for our church. Here's what we could do if. Well, people want to rally behind that, but they're going to stay with you. Sustainable giving, sustainable commitment, sustainable relationship is going to be tied on those outcomes.
- [30:31]
B
Exactly.
- [30:32]
C
And you have. And I've watched it for almost 11 years. You have. I never forget this moment. The first year I was here, I said, pastor Chris, what are you comfortable? And pastors, you need to hear this. What are you comfortable in me sharing with the people? You didn't even think about it one second. You go, comfortable. Like, I want them to see what I see. Like, the more they share everything. Share everything. Because the more they can see of what we're doing, the more they're going to want to get behind what we're doing. Because if they could see what I see, they would be really proud of their church.
- [31:09]
B
Exactly.
- [31:11]
C
And that's been a fact. So it's communication, not only in their dialect, but it's consistent. And it's. It's. It's having them where you're moving them from. A. You don't want church members. We want owners.
- [31:22]
B
Exactly.
- [31:23]
C
Owners of the vision.
- [31:24]
B
And in that Kingdom Builders Virtual Intensive, we teach you how to do the reporting system back. I know we're running out of time. I can see. This is your podcast.
- [31:31]
A
You can do whatever you want.
- [31:31]
B
Okay, well, because the last one's my favorite. So she came. She, Queen of Sheba, came because of his relationship with God, his anointing and vision. She came to him because she was impressed by the order and excellence. But the last one I loved the most, the Bible says she actually went home richer. Even though she gave. She went home richer. And the last thing that I think Kingdom Builders need and our business leaders and our churches need from their pastors is to make them rich in areas where they're poor, that even the most wealthiest people have a need somewhere. And I think it's a big miss to only be a receiver from people who have resource not to realize that they actually have needs themselves and say, man, what can I do for you.
- [32:15]
A
That'S worth another couple of minutes? Take some time to explain that.
- [32:18]
B
Well, hint, it's probably gonna be in their family. And one of the things that I know that I can give them that they can't buy with all the money in the world you can't buy is a great marriage. Kids that love them, walk with them through a difficulty maybe in their family. And so they're already so incredibly generous. And I'm so grateful we have to ask the question, then, what can I do for you? And it's just a big miss if we're not saying, you know, what do you need? What do you need from me? And I was on the phone just last night, pretty late. I had one of our kingdom builders, Lee, called and very, very concerned about his daughter. And their marriage is not going real well. Newly married, and her new husband's kind of checked out already. And she said, PC, what can we do about this? And I said, give your daughter my phone number and tell her that I'm praying for her and if she wants to call me. And she did. And so, you know, what do you do for somebody who's been as generous as he has, Honestly, we do this for every person in our church, is serve people in the areas, make them rich in areas where they're poor. And. And that's why we're encouraging in this season. Don't be transactional. I guess I would leave it with this, is that we can't give. You know, we can't just say, well, we're going to have an offering on this Sunday, and we're going to. We're going to, you know, do the. Don't make everything so transactional. The real secret between the king and the priests are relationships. Wouldn't you agree?
- [33:39]
C
It's equity. And it was. What screams to me when you're talking is your availability. It's availability. You know what they want? They want a level of. They're not going to wear you out because they're busy, too, but they want availability. They want to know that they're loved beyond being an ATM machine. They want to know that you love my kids and you want the very best for me. And I would say it this way, when you see. I wrote this down. When you see your daily lives as being vitally important to the kingdom, success on earth, something changes inside of you. And I think that the pastor holds the key to that. So unlock that door, Destiny, for your business people to step into that very area that God's called them. And it's with you. It's not separate. It's together. Because again, none of us are as good as all of us.
- [34:27]
A
We could go on for another hour. I love the authenticity of the relationship that you two have with each other and the way that I get to see the pastor and the business leader play out all the time. And grateful for how you impact a ton of people. We have to have to do a part two at some point because I wanted to get into teaching your kids about generosity and family meetings.
- [34:43]
B
Oh, man. Just the family meetings that he does over the area of generosity. It's just, it's incredible.
- [34:48]
A
So we'll bring that out another time. But hey, and I do want to say this. The KB the Kingdom Builders Virtual Intensive literally is a, it's a playbook. It is a step by step where you can learn about everything that goes a lot deeper than what we did today or even the monthly mentor call. And we'll, we'll link that in the show notes. Go to growleader.com podcast to find it there. We're so grateful to have you with us. We'll see you next time on the Grow Leader Reader podcast.