Amazon billionaire Jeff Bezos thinks the U.S. can grow its way out of a massive deficit. He says we need a "growth mindset." Stephanie and Dave call it a "suicide economic model," and note that growth addiction is exactly what afflicts most policymakers around the world. The dynamic duo discuss the little-understood fact that a shrinking economy can be healthy – when it accompanies a contracting population. Bezos also proposes that we plunder the universe in order to protect Earth "we've sent robotic probes to all of the planets in this solar system. This is the good one.")

Also:

The Congressional Budget Office lowers U.S. population projections, further stoking the fires of depopulation panic – the result of a lack of overpopulation literacy

Isaac Asimov's "metaphor of the bathroom," about the need for more regulation as our population grows (we dug up great video of Asimov; see link below)

The parable of the Mexican fisherman

A great poem, Rather Than by Sandy Trust. Featured in an episode of one of our favorite podcasts, Planet Critical (see link below)

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

Congressional Budget Office Lowers U.S. Population Projectionshttps://www.cbo.gov/publication/61164#_idTextAnchor003

Immigrants Fill the Birth Dearth: U.S. Population Will Crater Without NewcomersNew York Daily News editorialhttps://www.nydailynews.com/2025/01/17/immigrants-fill-the-birth-dearth-u-s-population-will-crater-without-newcomers/

The Interview: From Amazon to Space — Jeff Bezos Talks Innovation, Progress and What's Next – 2024 New York Times DealBook Summit, with Andrew Ross Sorkinhttps://youtu.be/s71nJQqzYRQ?si=uTMCtPVaXw8WnDeD

The Four Hour Work Week - by Tim Ferrisshttps://fourhourworkweek.com/

The Story of the Mexican Fishermanhttps://bemorewithless.com/the-story-of-the-mexican-fisherman/ A blog post on the website of Courtney Carver, author of Soulful Simplicity: How Living with Less Can Lead to So Much More, and Gentle: Rest More, Stress Less, and Live the Life You Actually Want

Isaac Asimov on World of Ideas – 1988 Interview by Bill Moyershttps://youtu.be/CWovZtCQWfE?si=nnxiJJb8LmC026Q_

Planetary Solvency – Finding Our Balance With Nature – report by Institute and Faculty of Actuarieshttps://actuaries.org.uk/news-and-media-releases/news-articles/2025/jan/16-jan-25-planetary-solvency-finding-our-balance-with-nature/

Planetary Solvency: Sandy Trust – episode of Planet Critical with Rachel DonaldSandy Trust responds to one question with his poem, Rather Thanhttps://www.planetcritical.com/p/planetary-solvency-sandy-trust

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On the GrowthBusters podcast, we come to terms with the limits to growth, explore the joy of sustainable living, and provide a recovery program from our society's growth addiction (economic/consumption and population). This podcast is part of the GrowthBusters project to raise awareness of overshoot and end our culture's obsession with, and pursuit of, growth.

Dave Gardner directed the documentary GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth, which Stanford Biologist Paul Ehrlich declared "could be the most important film ever made." Co-host, and self-described "energy nerd," Stephanie Gardner has degrees in Environmental Studies and Environmental Law & Policy.

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