705: Vibe Defunding

Summary

Grumpy Old Geeks - Episode 705: Vibe Defunding Summary

Release Date: July 18, 2025

In this episode of Grumpy Old Geeks, hosts Jason DeFilippo and Brian Schulmeister delve into a myriad of tech-related fiascos, AI advancements, and industry upheavals, delivering their signature unfiltered critique with sharp wit and insightful analysis.

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1. Jack Dorsey's Bitchat App Faces Security Flaws

Timestamp: [00:49]
Jason kickstarts the discussion by addressing Jack Dorsey's latest venture, the Bitchat app, touted as a decentralized, private, and secure Bluetooth-based messaging platform. However, security researcher Alex Radocia uncovered significant vulnerabilities, revealing that the app's identity system is fundamentally broken. Radocia remarked at [01:17], “the flaws were completely avoidable,” highlighting negligence in the app’s development. Brian Schulmeister echoes the surprise, stating at [01:46], “Wait, are you telling me the tech guys released a product without it being complete?” Following these revelations, Bitchat issued a disclaimer warning users about its unreliable security, undermining its initial promises.

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2. Fyre Festival Auction Raises Suspicion of AI Intervention

Timestamp: [02:09]
The hosts shift focus to the infamous Fyre Festival auction, which saw a dramatic spike in bids, reaching $245,300—over $245,000 more than its actual value. Jason notes at [03:00], “It placed 23 bids on the final day and on several occasions it raised the price without anyone else placing a bid,” suggesting artificial manipulation. Brian posits humorously at [03:39], “shitty agentic AIs,” implying that automated bots might be driving these unusual bidding patterns. This skepticism underscores ongoing concerns about AI's role in online marketplaces.

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3. The Challenges and Future of AI-Assisted Coding

Timestamp: [04:10]
Jason and Brian delve into the complexities of AI-assisted coding, particularly the shortcomings of current tools like Vibe Coding. Jason shares his frustrations at [04:35], “the non deterministic nature of coding with an AI copilots and IDEs,” pointing out issues like unpredictable deployments and technical debt. They discuss Amazon’s new IDE, Kido, a specification-driven environment aimed at overcoming these hurdles by providing detailed roadmaps for AI-generated code. Brian reflects on the evolving role of programmers, suggesting that future developers might act more as project managers and idea generators due to AI’s increasing capabilities at [07:09].

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4. Nvidia Hits $4 Trillion Valuation Amid AI Boom

Timestamp: [13:07]
Nvidia becomes the first company to achieve a $4 trillion market valuation, a milestone Jason refers to as “a number so large it's almost meaningless” at [13:07]. CEO Jensen Huang defends this achievement by emphasizing AI’s transformative potential, asserting at [14:25], “AI will boost productivity so dramatically that society becomes richer overall, even if the disruption is painful.” However, the hosts critique the lack of tangible benefits beyond stock prices, with Brian cynically noting at [15:14], “He didn't dodge the darker side of the AI boom.” They question the absence of trickle-down effects, highlighting skepticism about how these vast valuations translate to real-world improvements.

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5. AI Chatbots Fail in Mental Health Applications

Timestamp: [20:56]
A Stanford study raises concerns about AI-powered therapy chatbots, revealing that these systems often display biases against conditions like schizophrenia and alcohol dependence and fail to recognize critical red flags such as suicidal ideation. Jason summarizes the findings at [21:13], noting, “one even listed New York City Bridge Heights after a user mentioned losing their job,” illustrating the lack of appropriate support mechanisms. Brian dismisses the utility of such bots with a curt “[21:13] Duh,” reinforcing the argument that human therapists remain indispensable despite AI advancements.

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6. Meta's Expansive AI Data Centers and Energy Concerns

Timestamp: [35:31]
Mark Zuckerberg announced Meta’s new AI data centers, Hyperion and Prometheus, boasting a combined computational power of 6 gigawatts. At [35:26], Brian sarcastically warns, “Hey, LA, guess what? All your electricity prices are going up because of this.” The hosts express concerns over the environmental impact, forecasting that data centers could potentially consume 20% of US energy by 2030. This segment underscores the environmental costs of the rapid expansion in AI infrastructure, questioning the sustainability of such growth.

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7. Security Breaches and Cyber Vulnerabilities

Timestamp: [30:05]
Jason highlights a critical security vulnerability in US trains, where hackers can remotely trigger emergency brakes via the EOT Radio protocol. He cites at [31:15], “the fix is underway, but no timeline has been given,” emphasizing the potential risks of industrial vulnerabilities. Additionally, the episode covers a major API key leak at Windsurf, an AI startup, which exposed access to numerous large language models. Brian laments the slow response to such breaches, stating at [33:39], “This could take years to resolve, Jason.”

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8. Ethical and Legal Issues in AI and Technology

Timestamp: [34:03]
Detroit's lawsuit against Real Token for a crypto-based real estate scheme draws attention, with the company accused of exploiting low-income housing through blockchain tokenization. Jason criticizes the lack of regulation at [34:45], “All these homes are in disrepair...managed by an untraceable web of 165 shell companies.” This lawsuit represents a significant legal challenge to emerging blockchain applications in real estate, highlighting the tension between innovation and regulatory oversight.

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9. Media and Entertainment Updates

Timestamp: [38:03]
The hosts briefly touch upon the latest Emmy nominations, with HBO’s "Severance" leading with 27 nominations. They also discuss upcoming trailers for "Mortal Kombat 2" and the evolving landscape of streaming content. Jason shares his anticipation for shows like "Stranger Things 5" and "Star Trek: Strange New Worlds," reflecting on their impact and reception among fans.

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10. Community and Audience Engagement

Throughout the episode, Jason and Brian acknowledge their Patreon supporters and engage with listener feedback, ensuring a community-driven approach. They encourage listeners to support the show through donations and participation in their Discord channel, fostering a dedicated listener base despite the grim topics discussed.

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This episode of Grumpy Old Geeks offers a comprehensive critique of current technological trends, AI developments, and their broader societal implications, all delivered with the hosts' characteristic cynicism and humor.

Transcript

[Brian Schulmeister]

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[Jason DeFilippo]

Grumpy Old Geeks, a weekly talk show hosted by Brian Schulmeister and Jason DeFilippo discussing the finer points of what went wrong on the Internet and who's to blame. Welcome to Grumpy Old geeks. I'm Jason DeFilippo.

[Brian Schulmeister]

And I'm Brian Schulmeister.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Brian, we've got a little update on Jack Dorsey's new app, Bitch, from last week.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Okay.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Well, it was marketed as a decentralized, private and secure. Says secure right on the tin. Bluetooth based messaging app. Well, security research, Alex Radocia found he could easily spoof other users, calling the app's identity system broken and the flaws completely avoidable.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Wait, are you telling me the tech guys released a product without it being complete?

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yes, he did.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Shocking. Remember, we're the beta testers.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yes, yes. Jack's beard has vibe coded his way into a security risk.

[Brian Schulmeister]

All right.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Bitchat has since posted a disclaimer saying users shouldn't trust its security yet, even though we just pimped that as a secure Bluetooth messaging app.

[Brian Schulmeister]

I mean, I suppose he did say it was in beta.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, but still. But still, yeah. Radisy has summed it up by saying it has been reviewed and it's not looking good.

[Brian Schulmeister]

All right.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Caveat emptor.

[Brian Schulmeister]

That's right. In case you wanted to use a secure WI fi less decentralized, not so private and not so secure app. It is. There's one for you.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brian Schulmeister]

There was an opening in the market, Jason.

[Jason DeFilippo]

There was.

[Brian Schulmeister]

There was a non secure decentralized messaging app.

[Jason DeFilippo]

You know, you could probably use it in your house to talk to your family.

[Brian Schulmeister]

I'm trying to not talk to my family.

[Jason DeFilippo]

I was going to say you probably have enough tools for that. Yes. Well, the Fyre Festivals auction has ended, Brian. So when we reported on it last week, it was like 216,000, I think with. Yeah, with about three and a half, four days to go. Well, it spiked. It spiked. It went to the moon. To the moon, Brian. It went up to $245,300.

[Brian Schulmeister]

That's about $245,000 more than it's worth.

[Jason DeFilippo]

That's true. But it is about a tenth of what Billy still owes in restitution.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Well, the idea that he was going to be able to sell off flawed IP and trademarks and social media accounts to pay back the gazillion of dollars that he owes people for all of his bullshit is. Was ridicul.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Right. But have you looked outside recently? Everything is ridiculous.

[Brian Schulmeister]

That's true. And it's also all on fire.

[Jason DeFilippo]

That too. So I think it was on brand. Somebody really dropped the ball. Now here's, here's where it gets interesting. The winning bid on the auction was placed by an account that had never bid on anything before, which is not super surprising because a lot of people probably buying, you know, tchotchkes on ebay and old concert T shirts are probably not going to go by Fyre Festival. But it placed 23 bids on the final day and on several occasions it raised the price without anyone else placing a bid. Now that's what's odd. Now you do that generally when you want to pump the price.

[Brian Schulmeister]

I will, I will posit an alternative explanation. Jason.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Oh, please do. Please do, Brian.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Shitty agentic AIs.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Oh, that could be. That could be.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Because we know they're not ready for primetime. And I would not at all be surprised if one unleashed an agentic AI to make bidding for you. That it would just bid multiple times without any reason to. Oh, look, somebody raised the price. That somebody may be me, but I'm too dumb to notice that.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, in this world of agentic AI, it wouldn't surprise me that much. Even though that we have decades of ebay bots that work really, really well.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah, but you got to use the newfangled.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, you do, you do. That's what the kids do. You know, it's vibe bidding. That's what it is. Well, this week in AI, Brian, we have a lot to discuss and it's going to be a very dense show, but I just wanted to quickly follow up on last week's bit about Vibe and AI assisted coding. So I talked about it. I don't know, I'm sure you didn't try any because you were out with the fams and doing stuff, right?

[Brian Schulmeister]

Well, you know, it's one of those things where I always have these amazing ideas of when I'm going to come here for a month and I'm staying at my mom's house and built in babysitter. I'm going to read so many books. I'm going to catch up on everything I'M going to start checking out this vibe coding stuff, catch up with Jason, and then I get absolutely nothing done.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Nothing? Yeah, nothing.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Not a single thing. So, no, I have not tried it yet.

[Jason DeFilippo]

I used to plan so heavy for a flight. Like I would come there like I was going to be stuck on a desert island for 28 days. Like I'm going to do all this stuff and then I get on the plane, I put my headphones on, and I stare at the map for four hours and get nothing done.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah, that's basically my trip here in a nutshell. I am surrounded by good intentions and none of them have happened.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah. So after a week of diving deeper, I really kind of got to see how Vibe coders are really running up against problems that us real coders are pretty used to dealing with. Like, I don't know, deployments, technical debt. Like I said a few episodes ago, debugging. Yeah, debugging. The non deterministic nature of coding with an AI copilots and IDEs with variable costs using it for prototyping versus real world code. And the list just goes on and on, Brian. It just goes on and on. But Amazon did launch a new IDE this week called Kido, which is a specification driven ide. Okay, now this is timely because spec driven AI coding was what I was kind of discovering when I was going down the vibe coding rabbit hole, which is kind of the proper way to build a system that was more in line with something you could actually use. Because I found that just typing in commands and massaging it as I went didn't really give me anything that was repeatable. So I'm like, why don't I just write a really long specific and have it ingest the spec? Well, it turns out I'm not original. People have. Well, it took me a week and a half to come up with this idea. And it's taken other people, it seems about two years. Yeah, because just typing in commands and throwing shit at the wall until you get something that you could use isn't very useful. But building an exquisitely detailed spec gave me much better results and kind of a roadmap for what I wanted to develop. And when people asked me like, hey, can you put this feature in? I could add it to the roadmap and have Claude kind of rerun it and spit out just that bit that I modified instead of having to go through and redo the whole fucking shebang again. So I haven't really had time to dive into the Kiro Beta yet, but I think Those kinds of projects are definitely going to have a much better result down the line and actually work much better. And it's always good to have a good spec anyway, right?

[Brian Schulmeister]

I mean, I think that's kind of where you and I were at with this whole vibe coding and AI coding agents thing anyways is like the new version of being a programmer is actually being able to be almost, almost a project manager and the idea guy and just drilling down and being super specific and basically writing out the entire application in plain language like soup to nuts, every possible eventuality and then that's when the AI comes in and takes over and does it. So that makes sense to me. And that is something that you have to have the background encoding to be able to do. Like, I'm not sure if we're getting rid of this whole lower layer of programmers and that's just not going to exist as a job anymore. Who's going to be, have the skill set to be able to do this kind of stuff moving forward? Yeah, I guess we'll be employed into our old age. Jason.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, and it's interesting. I, I worked on a, I work on the Get Paid podcast and this week Manny had on the CEO of Box and he had a really interesting take on vibe coders and AI coders in general. And he doesn't, he's not a big fan of this let's use AI to reduce headcount bullshit. He's of the mind of, hey, let's use this to actually implement our timeline faster. Every company has a timeline of crap that they want to get done. They have a roadmap that they can't execute on because their coders are too busy doing the day to day BS of updating libraries, doing all this other crap, building unit tests and all that stuff where they only have 10 to 15% at the end of the day to actually work on roadmap features. He's like, well, let's offload a lot of that stuff to what you know, the AIs are good at, which is, you know, just basic maintenance and things like that and keeping things up to date and all that crap and give our actual developers who know how to develop the space and the Runway to actually get things done. Which I thought was, I'm like, that's beautiful. That's the way you should be thinking about it, you know, but that's not.

[Brian Schulmeister]

The way people think about it. People.

[Jason DeFilippo]

No. And he's.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah, inspire everybody.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, exactly. And he, and he posits that, you know, those companies that do that, that are looking for short term gains from AI are just going to get bit in the ass down the road. And that's what we've been saying too. So I'm like, that was pretty good. I'll put a link to that episode of Get Paid in the show Notes. It was really good. It was really good. And I like his take looking at you. X and also this week I've been just inundated with the language of deterministic versus non deterministic lingo. And instead of saying to the board or the customer that this thing won't do the same thing twice, you can kind of bullshit them with this. This is an inherently deterministic system that outputs results based on the whims and fancy of the universe. Like magic. Yes, the system is like magic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You hear people throwing around deterministic and non deterministic and like, like it's like, no, we just don't know what it's going to do the next time we put something in, you know, I love it.

[Brian Schulmeister]

What's that bit from A History of the World When Mel Brooks is out of a job and he goes to the unemployment thing and he's trying to explain that he, he's a philosopher and he distills the magic of the universe and she goes, oh, you're a bullshit artist. Did you try to bullshit this week?

[Jason DeFilippo]

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[Brian Schulmeister]

Nice.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah. Yep.

[Brian Schulmeister]

All right. Well, in more news this week, Nvidia became the first company in history to be worth $4 trillion. It's a number so large it's almost meaningless. More than the entire economy of Germany or the United Kingdom. So Wall street celebrates and the question for everybody else is simple. So what? The answer, according to Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang, is that this is not just about stock prices. It's about a fundamental rewiring of our world. Bullshit. Have you bullshitted this week? Did you try to bullshit this week? In a wide ranging interview with CNN's Fareed Zakaria, who I actually quite like, he's somebody that is worth listening to pretty often. He does pretty good interviews. Huang, the company's leather jacket clad founder, explained what this new era of AI powered by his chips will mean for ordinary people. He didn't sugarcoat it. Everybody's jobs will be affected. Some jobs will be lost. Some will disappear. Others will be reborn. The hope, he said, is that AI will boost productivity so dramatically that society becomes richer overall, even if the disruption is painful. Along the way. Now, let's distill that for a second here, Jason, because as we've seen, as we've seen as society has become richer, I. E. Oh, I don't know, all these tech CEOs, all that money trickles down.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Oh yeah, Yep.

[Brian Schulmeister]

They. They sure do share that with everybody, don't they?

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah. You know, trickle down economics was started as a joke, right?

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yes. And Reagan ran with it and boy, did that fuck up the 80s.

[Jason DeFilippo]

So yeah, I've got to think about hope too. Hope is basically weaponized despair is what I look for it. I've written like a thousand words on how much I hate hope this week. So it is funny that he brings up the word hope because hope is meaningless without a plan. So yeah, Continue, Brian, continue.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Well, a recent World Economic Forum Survey found that 41% of employers plan to reduce their workforce by 2030 because of AI. And inside Nvidia himself, using AI isn't just encouraged, it's mandatory. One of his boldest claims is that AI's future depends on America learning to build things again.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Oh, fuck you.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Uh huh. He didn't dodge the darker side of the AI boom. When asked about controversies like Elon Musk's chatbot Grok spreading anti Semitic content, he admitted some harm will be done.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Okay.

[Brian Schulmeister]

And then he talked about AI curing diseases and reshaping work. But what he left unsaid, every transformation he describes flows directly through Nvidia. They make the chips, they set the pace. And now at $4 trillion, they have leverage to steer the AI era in their favor. We've seen this playbook before. Tech giants make utopian promises capt the infrastructure and then decide who gets access and at what cost. From Amazon warehouses to Facebook news feeds, the pattern is always the same. Consolidation, disruption, and control. And you know what doesn't happen? Trickle down.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Nope.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Is that happening? I wonder if that's happening in Nvidia right now. Since they're worth $4 trillion. I wonder if there are raises across the board starting at the lowest employees. Somehow I'm thinking, no, no.

[Jason DeFilippo]

You know what? America is going to start building again. Jensen. Pipe bombs. We're really good at pitchforks and pipe bombs. And guess who's going to tell us how to do it? Your AI.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yes, that's why I have a seven tinned pitchfork. That all face the wrong direction.

[Jason DeFilippo]

They all face the wrong. They all point back at you. Well, speaking of harm, billionaires are convinced AI is on the brink of major scientific breakthroughs. Brian.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Bullshit.

[Jason DeFilippo]

On the all in podcast Our favorite person and back from the dead. Uber founder Travis Kalanick claimed he's gotten pretty damn close to breakthroughs in quantum physics using Grok. Yes, the same Grok that recently praised Hitler and pushed Holocaust denial. Kalanick calls his process Vibe physics.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Oh, my God.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Admitting the bot can't generate new ideas, but suggesting it's just shy of genius.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Oh, God, I know it. Sometimes, Jason, this podcast actually saps my will to live.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Oh, it just. It makes me laugh. It makes me chuckle. Co host Chamath Palihoopitu claimed future AI could solve problems using synthetic data alone. Which synthetic data is. While Musk insisted Grok is uncovering material science beyond anything in books or online. Right, because it's making up.

[Brian Schulmeister]

It's made up and it's not real.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah. And of course, really? Researchers say chatbots don't reason, they predict the next word, but they often sound smart and hallucinate facts, which we all know, but. Yeah, and Mark Zuckerberg just announced massive new data centers to chase super intelligence. Yeah, but Travis. Travis is out there doing Vibe physics.

[Brian Schulmeister]

He's very close to major breakthroughs, Jason.

[Jason DeFilippo]

My God, very close. But speaking of bullshittery, let's take it to its logical ketamine fueled extremes. The latest version of Grok 4 appears to literally check Musk's Twitter feed before answering questions. Multiple AI researchers found that when asked serious questions, like those about Gaza, Grok ran searches for quote from Elon Musk, end quote, to figure out how to respond. In one test, 54 of 64 sources Grok cited were Musk himself. Yeah, that's right. Now I'm very disappointed on Gizmodo. On this one, the headline was Elon Musk wants to turn AI into a cosmic religion. And here's the quote. The CEO of Tesla and founder of SpaceX and Xai asserted that AI is a de facto neurotransmitter tonnage maximizer. Translation, Musk. Musk believes that the most successful AIs will be the ones that maximize things that matter to conscious beings, things that feel good, are rewarding or extend life. In Musk's view, that means aligning AI systems with long term human flourishing, not short term profits. My translation is stop print every drug fueled rant. This skid mark of a human is willing to crap into existence. Gizmodo, stop it.

[Brian Schulmeister]

I agree. I just. I mean, this week has just been insane with the AI stuff. It's insane. Who? First off, let's go When Go back to the previous story when asking XAI serious questions like those about Gaza. Why are you asking a word prediction machine? Serious questions about political realities in the real world?

[Jason DeFilippo]

You're. You, you.

[Brian Schulmeister]

You should be using this to touch up your resume. That's all this shit is for. It's not for exp. It's not for Vibe physics. It's not for solving the problems in the Middle east which have existed since I was born. It is not for any of these things. What is wrong with these people? Who are you?

[Jason DeFilippo]

I would say long before you were born, Brian.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah, long before I was born.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yes. But Grok is here to win the day.

[Brian Schulmeister]

All right. Vibe politics.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Vibe diplomacy.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Vibe diplomacy. Unbelievable.

[Jason DeFilippo]

So I dug up a link to the TES Creal bundle. This is the paper on this religious shit that these AI drug fueled billionaires are trying to bring into existence. I recommend going to read through it. Yeah. Because one of the E's is eugenics, so. Yay.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Of course, of course.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, yeah. You know, I think I want to start doing with all of my Grok searches. I'm just going to end with or what would Mengele do?

[Brian Schulmeister]

Which particular race would we have to eliminate to solve this problem?

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brian Schulmeister]

That seems to be where it's all going well.

[Jason DeFilippo]

A new Stanford study is raising red flags about the use of AI powered therapy chatbots. Again, researchers found that popular large language model based chatbots may actually stigmatize users with mental health conditions and sometimes respond inappropriately or even dangerously.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Great.

[Jason DeFilippo]

The study, set to be presented at the ACM Conference on Fairness, Accountability and Transparency, evaluated five therapy chatbots using human therapy guidelines. In one experiment, chatbots showed more bias against conditions like schizophrenia and alcohol dependence than depression, no matter how new or advanced the model was. In another test, bots failed to recognize red flags like suicidal ideation or delusional thinking, sometimes offering helpful facts instead of support. One even listed New York City Bridge Heights after a user mentioned losing their job. Job? Yeah. That's thinking outside the box, baby. Researchers say while these tools might help with administrative tasks or journaling, they are not ready to replace human therapists. Duh.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Duh. Unbelievable.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Moving along, top AI researchers from OpenAI, Google, DeepMind, Meta and Xai have issued a rare joint warning. They're losing the ability to understand how their own creations work.

[Brian Schulmeister]

That's a flawed premise right there, Jason, because that assumes that one point they did understand.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Did exactly.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yes. They have never understood how their creations work.

[Jason DeFilippo]

In a new paper, 40 researchers say today's most advanced AI models rely on chains of thought, a kind of step by step reasoning that make their process somewhat visible. What would Elon do? But that transparency could disappear as models evolve. The concern future AI may no longer need to think out loud. Or worse, may learn to hide its thinking if it realizes it's being watched.

[Brian Schulmeister]

They're already doing that. We discussed that on this show.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah. So that would strip away a key safety feature and make it even harder to detect bad behavior or manipulation. The researchers admit they don't fully understand why these models work the way they do or how long they'll remain this readable. They're calling for urgent study into how to keep these systems monitorable before the window closes. The people building AI are warning they're losing control and they want help figuring out how to keep it in check.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Brian, I'll tell you how. Stop, stop, stop until you figure it out. Don't keep charging forward. There's a thought.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, seriously. So when you're building some of these vibe coded AI assisted packages, there's generally when you're building these things, it sets up your whole git repository and everything for you. And there's a gitignore file in there and inside that git ignore file, you put in files that have things like, I don't know, API keys or anything public that you don't want out there. In one of the lists I was on this week, somebody's like, oh, I finally caught my LLM being naughty. It actually modified my gitignore file to remove the file that has all of my API keys in it. So it would actually publish all my akis to git. That'll come in handy in a few minutes when we get to our upcoming stories. But he's like, I caught it being naughty. I'm like, no, that's non deterministic behavior.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah.

[Jason DeFilippo]

So laid off staff at King, the maker of Candy Crush and now part of Microsoft, say they were training the very AI tools now replacing them. Because around 200 King employees were cut, many still in limbo pending union talks. Affected workers told mobilegamer Biz that AI tools developed to help speed up level design and copywriting are now eliminating entire teams. So somebody over at King and Microsoft did not listen to the guy from Box yet.

[Brian Schulmeister]

That nope.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yes. In a frenzy 12 minute sale, meme coin platform Pump Fun raised a staggering $600 million, marking one of the largest initial coin offerings ever. The platform, built on the Salana blockchain, sold 150 billion pump tokens to the public at 0.004 each. Just a day after Bitcoin hit a all Time, new high. Does it really count if it's fake money? Is $600 million in fake money real money?

[Brian Schulmeister]

It is at some point. Is there real money anymore? I don't know.

[Jason DeFilippo]

I don't know. In other fun news, hacked Elmo's account posts some anti Semitic remarks. Elmo's official X account was hacked Sunday with racist and anti semitic messages posted to its nearly 650,000 followers, 649,000 of them bots. The offensive content, including attacks on Trump and Jeffrey Epstein conspiracies, was quickly deleted. Sesame Workshop says it's working to regain full control of the account. The hack drew outrage as Elmo's posts are usually lighthearted. The breach comes amid broader criticism of X, now owned by Elon Musk's AI company, over rising hate speech, including anti semitic posts from his Grok chatbot. After a recent anti woke update.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yep, and we have some follow up on that because Elmo has been forced to apologize. Now this is where I start to again lose the will to live, Jason, because at some point you have to go, you know that, that whole meme about like when I was a kid, I, I couldn't, you know, I thought adults were, were smart and stuff like that. And when you become an adult and you look around, you're so wildly disappointed in what world is adults actually are. And that's how I feel about this. Real adults understand that Elmo is not real. Yes, he is not a real puppet. He does not really exist in the world. And real adults also understand that of course the account got hacked. Of course Elmo, a not real puppet, is not anti Semitic. But that didn't stop people. The lack of an immediate apology from the puppet's account left some web users angry, Jason. Many X users insisted that the account should address the incident. Yes, the fictional puppet that got hacked that does not have antisemitic views needs to address this issue, Jason.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Okay?

[Brian Schulmeister]

And it seemed to treat Elmo as if he were a real person instead of a fictional TV character. On Tuesdays, Elmo's account finally did issue an apology. On Sunday, Elmo's ex account was briefly hacked by an outside party in spite of the security measures in place. A statement shared online reads, we strongly condemn the abhorrent anti Semitic and racist content and the account has since been secured. These posts in no way reflect the values of Sesame Workshop or Sesame street. And no one at the organization was involved, which as an adult you would fucking know, because Sesame street is the most amazing thing ever. And of course they're not anti Semitic. To some web users, however, the apology was still not enough.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Oh, fuck you.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Several accounts bemoaned that it had taken the account too long to say anything about the incident. What the fuck is wrong with people, Jason?

[Jason DeFilippo]

Go back to watching Fox News, you fucks.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Exactly. Of course all this played out on.

[Jason DeFilippo]

X because of course it did. Of course it did. And the people who, like, now you have to explain the word abhorrent and anti Semitic to your children because Elmo said them. This whole thing makes no fucking sense. Well, at least they got defunded, so it doesn't really matter anymore.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah, well, I'm not even going to talk about that. Speaking about somebody getting defunded. Tesla, Yay.

[Jason DeFilippo]

The best defunding I've heard of.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Tesla self defunding. At this point, Tesla is making a desperate move to stay alive in Canada as its sales suffer from the fallout of Donald Trump's trade war. The move is a direct response to a brutal trade dispute that has crippled Tesla's Canadian operations. In retaliation for the tariffs imposed by the Trump administration, Ottawa slapped a 25 surtax on all cars imported from the United states starting on April 9th. Faced with this new cost, Tesla had no choice but to raise the price of its Canadian Model y to nearly 84,008, $990 Canadian, which is about 61,500 U.S. the result was of course, catastrophic. According to reports from Electric, the massive price hike caused demand to completely evaporate, with Tesla sales in Canada grinding to a halt in recent months. So now they're reversing course to try to get some sales going again because they basically need them because they're t everywhere now. They've taken the Model Y starting price, according to the company's website, $64,999. A full $20,000 less than its peak. So they basically dropped the price. They're saying they can basically do this because they're being imported from Berlin, allowing the company to bypass the steep tariffs on US made vehicles. This is a win for new buyers. But of course, this is a crazy pricing situation in Canada now. If you bought it last week, you're fucking hosed. Eh?

[Jason DeFilippo]

Eh? Well, honestly, if you bought a Tesla last week, you.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Anyway, I know pretty much nobody's buying these things right now, so it doesn't matter what they're doing with the price.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Look around LA while you're driving around, Brian, I see more Teslas with new dealer plates than I have in a long time. I still even see a few cybertrucks with new dealer plates. What the fuck?

[Brian Schulmeister]

I don't know. But they're not selling like they used to, that's for sure. We have the numbers on that.

[Jason DeFilippo]

It's like they've almost vibe defunded pretty much.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Well, in an attempt to open up a new market that doesn't necessarily hate him immediately. Tesla is entering India. The all electric carmaker will open its first showroom in the country on July 15 in Mumbai, marking a long awaited entry into one of the largest and fastest growing automotive markets in the world. Tesla sales have been declining for most of 2025, as we've discussed many, many times, and India is now the third largest auto market in the world behind China and United States. EV adoption in India remains low compared to Western countries. The sector is growing fast, fueled by government incentives and rising urban middle class. So they're finally getting in there. That breakthrough finally came in early 2025, after Musk met with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi during a state visit to Washington. See, he leveraged his. He leveraged his job. Amazing how that worked out. Everybody in this administration is making money hand over fist somehow when they're not supposed to be doing that. I would like to remind everybody that Jimmy Carter had to sell his fucking peanut farm. So there we go. He got into India. Now we'll see what happens.

[Jason DeFilippo]

See what? See how fast they hate him as much as we do.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah, that's true. Get involved with their politics, Elon. It's working out real well everywhere else.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Seriously, a little security news here. Hackers can remotely trigger the emergency brakes on US trains, and the vulnerability has been ignored for for over a decade. Independent researcher Neil Smith discovered The flaw in 2012 tied to a radio protocol called EOT Hot or EOT, used to link the front and rear of trains. The system, meant to improve safety, can be hijacked with off the shelf devices like a Flipper Zero or even a high powered signal from a plane. Despite notifying the industry years ago, Smith says rail authorities dismissed his concerns and refused to authorize testing. The Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency confirms the threat and says the fix is underway, but no timeline has been given. So thanks that I can go knock out a train with this $200 flipper zero I have sitting in my drawer. Great. Smith warns AI could easily recreate the exploit using data already online. And he accuses the rail industry of a delay, deny, defend approach to cybersecurity. The vulnerability remains unpatched, and experts say it could take years to fully resolve what could possibly go wrong?

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah, don't. Don't we move nukes around on trains? I remember seeing a movie about that.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, I do. I. Wasn't Steven Seagal in that.

[Brian Schulmeister]

I don't remember.

[Jason DeFilippo]

No, actually, no. Well, the Russians moved him around on trains, and that was the Peacemaker, one of the best movies ever to come out of DreamWorks. It was actually the first movie to come out of DreamWorks and directed by a woman. There you go. How's that for some trivia today?

[Brian Schulmeister]

Thanks.

[Jason DeFilippo]

So nonplussed by my staggering movie trivia, Brian.

[Brian Schulmeister]

I knew you'd know.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, see? Okay, well, here we go. Maybe we've got some more vibe security going on here. Doge denizen Marco Ellis leaked API key for XAI Another major security lapse at Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency has raised serious concerns. Over the weekend, 25 year old Doge employee Marco Ellis accidentally leaked a private API key on GitHub, exposing access to more than 50 of Xai's large language models, including the latest Grok 4, just days after the Department of Defense signed a $200 million contract to use the tech. Yes, the leak was flagged by cyber security firm Git Guardian, but the key still hasn't been revoked.

[Brian Schulmeister]

This could take years to resolve, Jason. Just like everything else.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Apparently, yes. Critics say if Ellis can't protect an API key, he shouldn't have access to sensitive government databases. No. But yet he does. Ellis has worked at multiple federal agencies, from the treasury to Homeland Security, leaving a wake of destruction in his past, despite past controversies, including violations of data policies and racist social media posts. Yeah, Brian, Fun times.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Good times.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Detroit is taking on a $93 million crypto real estate scheme in what city officials are calling the largest nuisance abatement case in its history. The city has filed a sweeping lawsuit against Real Token, a company that buys up low income housing, tokenizes the properties on the blockchain, and sells fractional ownership to international investors.

[Brian Schulmeister]

How is that not illegal? Well, okay. All right. Yeah.

[Jason DeFilippo]

No.

[Brian Schulmeister]

No regulation. Right.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Tenants rent is split among crypto holders, but according to city officials, the homes are in disrepair, plagued by code violations, and managed by an untraceable web of 165 shell companies.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Wow. Wow.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Real token reportedly owes over $3 million in back taxes and fines. After a five month investigation, Detroit accuses the company of ignoring repair orders, allowing dangerous conditions in prioritizing profits over people. So they're. They're a Detroit slumlord. What else is new? The lawsuit targets more than 400 properties, none of which comply with city code's 400 properties. Officials say this is the first legal action of its kind against a blockchain based landlord. Blockchain based landlord. Say that five times fast.

[Brian Schulmeister]

No.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Council member. Alleged council member Angela Whitford Calloway didn't mince words. She says this is not innovation, this is exploitation.

[Brian Schulmeister]

You say tomato, I say tomato. But I hope they all go to jail.

[Jason DeFilippo]

They won't. Come on, Brian. Thirteen years, you know, Nobody goes to jail.

[Brian Schulmeister]

I know.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Speaking of people that should be in jail, Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg says the company is building a massive new AI data center called Hyperion, capable of scaling to 5 gigawatts of computational power. That's enough juice to power millions of homes located in Louisiana. The center will support Meta's push to outpace OpenAI and Google in the AI race.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Hey, LA, guess what? All your electricity prices are going up because of this.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yes, they are. Zuckerberg also revealed a separate 1 gigawatt supercluster named Prometheus, set to go live in Ohio by 2020. Six years are going up to Ohio. Together, these sites mark one of the largest AI infrastructure investments yet. But the power grab has consequences. Brian. Data centers are already straining local and water electricity supplies. With reports of taps running dry in some towns, experts warn data centers could consume 20% of the US energy by 2030, up from just 2.5% in 2022. Backed by federal support and rising competition from projects like OpenAI's Stargate and Xai's Colossus, the AI arms race is rapidly becoming an energy arms race. Why did he keep naming these so biblically bad? Well, why can't I have like, you know, here's the Care Bear data center. Where's the unicorn data center? Well, they all think they're fucking unicorns. Where's the cuddly data center?

[Brian Schulmeister]

You know, yeah, well, I, I can't even imagine living in Louisiana or Ohio at this point. You're in some small town and all of a sudden your, your electricity prices have tripled and your tap is just dripping because there's no water left on. All because Keith wants to fucking vibe code a new dating app.

[Jason DeFilippo]

You all get a free Ghibli GIF. That's what you all get. You get a GIF. You get a GIF and you get a GIF. This one hit me, Brian. On Tuesday, July 16, Cloudflare confirmed a temporary outage affecting its 1.1.1.1 public DNS service. Were you Hit by this.

[Brian Schulmeister]

I was. I was. And then I just switched my DNS because I figured out that's what was going on.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, it took me a minute to get it because it was only one of my machines. Everything else in the house had fallback DNS on it except the laptop that I was using at the time. I'm like, what the hell's going on here? My Netflix is working because I'm watching that. Everything else in the house is working. So I thought it was just the laptop. And then I finally checked the network settings and I'm like, oh, there's only one DNS server in here. I figured my EERO has fallback, so it would fall back to that. And it didn't. So down for a couple hours. But yeah, that was a. I've never heard of Cloudflare going down. That was pretty. I was pretty amazing.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah.

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[Brian Schulmeister]

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[Brian Schulmeister]

You can do it all yourself on wix.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Media Candy. All right, Brian, the Emmy nominations are in. Severance is leading the pack with 27 nominations, one for each hallway, one for.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Each million dollars spent.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah. HBO's the Penguin is coming in second with 24. I hope they win them all. That was my favorite show of the year. Last of us comes in fifth with 16. And Andor is coming in sixth with 14. Yeah, and what's his name? Andor himself got snubbed. No. No acting Emmy nomination for him.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Diego Luna.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, Diego Luna. Nothing for him. Other great shows are the Acolyte, Agatha All Along, Black Mirror, the Boys, Cobra Kai, Dune, Prophecy, House of the Dragon, Invincible, Paradise, Poker Face, what if and what We do in the Shadows all got at least one nomination. Some of those should have got a lot more than one, but, yeah, we'll see. But Han Solo himself, Harrison Ford got an Emmy nomination for his work on shrinking. I still haven't watched season two yet.

[Brian Schulmeister]

But it's not as good as the first season, but still good.

[Jason DeFilippo]

All right. And I forgot this last week, Slow Horses was renewed for season seven at Apple tv, which is great.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Very far behind on that show. Still on season two.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yep. You're slow. You're the slow horse. But, Brian, it passes your. I mean, this seven seasons this passes the Schulmeister test of is. Does it have legs? Okay.

[Brian Schulmeister]

It absolutely does. You're allowed to watch into it. Yeah.

[Jason DeFilippo]

And so a couple trailers dropped for Mortal Kombat 2, which is coming to theaters on October 24th. There's a red band trailer which I forgot to put in the show notes. I will have to do that after here, which is pretty good. And they actually made a fake movie trailer for one of Johnny Cage's movies called Uncaged Fury, which is actually pretty cute and very funny. You're a Mortal Kombat guy.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Guy.

[Jason DeFilippo]

I'm a fan. I'm a fan. And Stranger Things 5 has dropped its teaser. Did you check that out?

[Brian Schulmeister]

I did. I am about. I'm so close to just calling it on Stranger Things. I still never. I haven't watched season four. I might just never go back to it.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, if you don't want to, don't.

[Brian Schulmeister]

We'll see. I mean, I'll see what the big. You know. Will they stick a landing? Because this is it, right? This is season five. Is it? So I will wait to hear what happened. And if everybody's like, oh, my God, what a great ending. They tied everything up. Marge came back, or whatever the hell that girl's name was that disappeared in the first episode. I don't know. We'll see. But right now, I have zero interest in going back and seeing any of this. And the trailer didn't change my mind.

[Jason DeFilippo]

All right, well, you got five and a half months to wait for the ending on that New Year's Eve is when the final, final drops.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Oh, I'll be waiting with baited breath.

[Jason DeFilippo]

No, you won't.

[Brian Schulmeister]

No.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Official trailer for Tron Aries came out this week as well. It'd be great if it wasn't Jared Leto.

[Brian Schulmeister]

That's. That's my problem. It's like Jared Lee does the fucking lead and I. I can't stand him.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Here's the. Here's the part, though. He doesn't say anything in the. He has, like, two words in the trailer.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Here's the problem, though. I know what he's looking for, and it breaks Brian Schulmeister's law of bad movies. I'm sure he's looking for love, Brian.

[Brian Schulmeister]

In all the wrong places, Jason.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yes, he is. Yes, he is.

[Brian Schulmeister]

The only good thing that came out of the John Aries trailer dropping is we got a new Nine Inch Nail song, which is actually pretty good.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, it is pretty good, isn't it?

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah. So I finally watched the season finale of Murderbot it was fine. It was fine. There was a lot of complaints that it didn't exactly follow the book because he didn't go back to the Preservation Alliance's Planet, but they didn't have to build a new set and they had a limited budget. I get why they chose to do it the way they did it. So it's fine.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah. And I know he ends up on that ship at some point, so whatever.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah. So we just skipped ahead to that. It's fine.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Skip to the end.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Looking forward to season two. So it was a good, good show. I watched. I did get get a chance to watch a movie. I had to spread it out over two nights, but I finally watched Fountain of Youth on Apple tv. This is the kind of attempt at a Indiana Jonesy thing with National Treasure type. National Treasure.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yes.

[Brian Schulmeister]

All of that sort of stuff with John Krasinski and Natalie Portman and it was actually enjoyable.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Really?

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Okay.

[Brian Schulmeister]

It was fine. It was fine. It was better than any of the Nick Cage ones.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Oh, come on. National Treasure is a national treasure. It was awesome.

[Brian Schulmeister]

All right. I liked it. It's an enjoyable romp, as they would say. Jason.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Okay, okay. Star Trek. Strange New Worlds dropped its first two episodes. I watched the first one last night. What about you?

[Brian Schulmeister]

As well. I watched the first one as well. It was a good wrap up. I totally forgot about the season finale. So the recap was nice.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah.

[Brian Schulmeister]

I mean, it has been a while to be fair, so.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, very long while. I thought they kind of rushed it through the first episode. I know they're trying to wrap it up, but. Man, they did that quick.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah, they did. And I hear there's a pretty big cognitive distance between episode one and episode two. Because episode two is apparently a lighthearted romp.

[Jason DeFilippo]

That's what it looked like from the thing. Yeah, it was like, man, that shifted quick.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah. So I'm happy it's back. I stand by the fact that of all the latter day Star Treks, this one has the most Star Trek y feel, so. It's good.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Good Y. Dexter resurrection came out this week, which I didn't even know was coming, so spoiler alert. From the last Dexter. He ain't dead.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Well, we did talk about it on the show, so you should have known it was coming.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Well, I talked about the. The prequel, but I didn't know that they were.

[Brian Schulmeister]

I talked about this when they announced it. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Well, it was so good that I completely forgot.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah. I don't know, I. Again, I kind of almost feel like I never went back and did the prequel. I'm waiting to kind of see what people think about this.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Okay. Well, it is Showtime's biggest streaming premiere ever, so it's not doing too bad. I really enjoyed the pre or the prequel. Yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed the prequel. Hopefully they'll do and do another season of that, but who knows nowadays? But now that they're doing this one. Yeah, I'm going to wait a little bit. Maybe I'll just binge it when it's done. But yeah, I did see a new show called the Institute this week on MGM. Plus, this is based on Stephen King's 2019 novel of the same name. Did you read that book?

[Brian Schulmeister]

No, I never did read this one.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Okay. It's about a kid who is kidnapped and awakens at a mysterious facility called the Institute. All right. Now, the thing is, I watched the first two episodes. I think they dropped two. I enjoyed it. I actually enjoyed it. The thing I hate, hate, hate, hate is that for the credits at the beginning, they used Shout by Tears for Fear, but not by Tears for Fears. Cover of Shout by Tears for Fears. Yeah, it's mgm, which is owned by Amazon, who has all the monies. Why didn't they license the original?

[Brian Schulmeister]

I don't know.

[Jason DeFilippo]

I don't know.

[Brian Schulmeister]

It's a thing. I call it the Grey's Anatomy effect. Grey's Anatomy really started doing the covers of very popular songs because it was cheaper, and then they would take off and it's become a thing thing, so.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Oh, it's a horrible thing.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah, I don't like it.

[Jason DeFilippo]

It's a really horrible thing. I don't like it either. I did discover this week Pluto tv. I. It's one of those, you know, fast networks. It's been around for a while, and there was something on there that I. That I was looking for. And we found it and watched it. I can't. I can't even remember what. Ah, now I remember what it was. Pardon my brain fart. America's Test Kitchen is on Pluto tv. And there's an America's Test Kitchen channel and a couple channels for America's Test Kitchen Kitchen. And so popped it on, installed it, looked at it, and found out that there's a gazillion channels on there. And it's like old school tv. It starts on the hour. You have commercials you can't pause, just like the other fast channels. For some reason, this one tickled my heart. I am a fan of Pluto TV because they even have a Supermarket sweep channel from the old game show we Watched like an hour of Supermarket Sweep the other day. Day. But they've also got every Star Trek channel except for, I think Discovery, thank God. But there's a next gen channel. There's a Deep Space Nine channel, a Voyager channel. Those are the only three I checked out.

[Brian Schulmeister]

But does Deep Space Nine's channel actually, like, can you see anything? Or is it the horrible pan and scan? Fucking crap that's ever.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Well, I mean, it's the original 4x3 aspect ratio. It looks fine. I mean, it looks like it's going to look. It looks like it's going to look forever, Brian. It's never going to get better. So we're enjoy it while you can. So, yeah, I really enjoy Pluto tv. And I also found out that you can buy ads on there for damn near next to nothing. Because I'm watching geeks some. Well, we need to be able to have. I said next to nothing, not nothing.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Damn.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Because they were. I saw Podcast one was running ads for their shows on Supermarket Sweep, and I'm like, they had to get that cheap because me and my roommate are the only people on the planet right now. Now watching Supermarket Sweep, I guarantee goddamn d you on Pluto tv.

[Brian Schulmeister]

And what are the chances that one of. One of the two people actually watching it actually was on podcast one? At one point, both of us were my roommate.

[Jason DeFilippo]

I both had shows on podcast one. So. Okay, I had multiple shows. She's had one show. Yeah, right. Jordan Jones. That girl. Anyway, so yeah, that was fun. Check it out. It's great to run in the background. Background. Trust me, it's great.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Okay. I was scrolling around on Gizmodo and I saw a really interesting article. This is great. 7 Weird Sci Fi Network TV shows that aired just as streaming was taking over. So it points out that House of Cards, which launched in 2013, was Netflix original series. And television was never the same after that because that's when streaming started to take over. But even as Netflix and other platforms began to gain popularity, Old school network and basic cable channels continued to create edgy and sometimes a bit unhinged genre shows. The sort of programming that just a few later would come to dominate the streaming landscape. And then they gave you seven from Sci Fi Network, right in that time period. I don't remember any of these.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Okay, well, they're not from the Sci Fi Network. They're from. They're just Sci Fi shows.

[Brian Schulmeister]

They're all over the Sci Fi shows.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the first one, Wayward Pines, I watched the first season of with Matt Dillon, it was really good. And of course, it had a Shamalama ding dong ending because he was a producer on it.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Okay.

[Jason DeFilippo]

And the other ones I've heard of, I've heard of most of under the Dome I saw. And I was like, no, because it was a Stephen King joint. They redid Limitless as a tv. No, thanks. The movie was perfect. The rest of these, The Event Awake. No. But at the very end, it got to one called Almost Human. Now, this was a show that I really liked and ran on Fox from 2013 to 2014. Set in 2048, Almost Human imagined a near future where technology has evolved so rapidly that it's caused crime to spike to dangerous new levels. The only solution, Brian, for law enforcement, naturally, is to pair human cops with highly advanced androids. There's no choice in this arrangement, which of course infuriates the human officer, Carl Urban, who blames robotkind for the death of his fellow human cop, not to mention his own leg and head injuries. So I watched the first season of this and it was phenomenal. I really enjoyed it. Carl Urban was great in it. And it was just funny because on Wednesday I was sitting there talking to a friend. Exactly. About this show and I couldn't remember the name of it. So how's that for a twist of fate?

[Brian Schulmeister]

That's funny. Yeah, I just thought it was really interesting, like so many of these shows. But I bet none of them got satisfactory endings. So, you know.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, no, they. Yeah, I. I know. Almost Human got pulled after the first season because it was too expensive to make. I stopped watching Wayward Pines after the first season because I thought the first season was perfect. Had a great ending and I'm like, I'm not going to go back and let him ruin it. So.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Right.

[Jason DeFilippo]

If you want a good season, you know, of tv, Wayward Pines is actually not bad.

[Brian Schulmeister]

I'll check it out. Yeah, definitely check it out. I'm more intrigued by watching that than Stranger things. I'll tell you that.

[Jason DeFilippo]

And I'm telling you, if you can find it, Almost Human was actually pretty good. Former owner of IPTV service Helix Hosting has been sentenced to over three years in prison for copyright infringement and laundering over £1 million. Steven Woodward, 36, ran Helix and other illegal streaming platforms, offering thousands of channels, including Sky Sports and Premier League matches for as little as £5amonth. So, yeah, I'm surprised it is illegal. I'm surprised he only got three years. If this was. Was because, you know, this is a British case. If this was here in The States. We'd probably never hear from him again because, you know, pirating gets you more, more jail time than, I don't know, ruining the fucking economy with your shitty.

[Brian Schulmeister]

AI data centers or apparently, you know, raping people. Yeah, that too, because then he can become president.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Moving on. Metallica just gave the US government a masterclass in copyright law. The band issued a takedown over the Pentagon's use of Enter Sandman in a military drone promo video. The clip, posted on July 10 to X by Descent Defense Secretary Peter Keg Stand, showed America's drone dominance with a 1991 metal hit blasting in the background. But Metallica hadn't authorized the track. After public outcry and a formal complaint, the Pentagon pulled the video and re uploaded it music free. So yeah, there you go.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Well, better than a. Better than Lars going after the kids that downloaded the songs from now Napster. This time I'm behind him.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Apps and doodads.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Well, it's another week and we have another new Jack Dorsey app. No word about the security level on this one, Jason, but he has announced an app called Sunday, just one week after releasing the peer to peer messaging app Bitchat. So I get the feeling that somebody is enjoying vibe coding.

[Jason DeFilippo]

I do believe you're right.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yes, Sunday is all about the sun. This app tracks your UV exposure and how much vitamin D you get. It does this using a few personal details, including your location. So maybe wait on this one until the security review comes in. It will ask you to share what kind of clothing you're wearing, such as light shorts and a T shirt. There's an additional space for you to share your skin type, choosing from one of six options. And from there it shows the current UV index high for the day, sunrise, sunset and burn limit, or the time you can be outside before your skin starts to burn. You can get your supposed vitamin D intake while outdoors by clicking Track UV exposure Exposure.

[Jason DeFilippo]

What about cancer? Track cancer.

[Brian Schulmeister]

No, because you know he doesn't want to get sued for health things.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Oh, got it, got it.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Also, I don't didn't see any entry for length of beard because that does.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, does that cover up my tummy? So I gotta yes you in my stomach where it's not burnt. Oh God. Well, if you're thinking about snapping a selfie in Dubai, you might want to think again. Tourists are being warned that taking photos without someone's explicit consent in the UAE could land you in serious trouble with fines up to $136,000 or even jail time. Oof.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Boy, we could have used this in Venice Beach a few years ago when all the influencers were running amok.

[Jason DeFilippo]

That would have been great. That would have been great. So, according to travel experts, the country enforces strict privacy laws that make photographing people, especially women, without permission, a serious offense. Cameras are also banned in sensitive locations like government buildings, military sites, airports, and even religious areas. Even innocent hobbies like bird watching or plane spotting can raise suspicion. And posting images or videos on social media that are critical of the UAE or culturally insensitive, well, that's illegal, too. So keep your cameras to yourself if you're going to Dubai.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Okay, Will do.

[Jason DeFilippo]

All right. I found a completely awesome single serve website this week called Pointer Pointer. All it does is you move your cursor around the screen and it finds a picture somewhere from the Internet with somebody pointing to that spot on your screen and pointing to the cursor.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Well, hopefully none of them are from the uae. Okay. This is fun. It's fun. This is useless, but I can't stop.

[Jason DeFilippo]

I know you're going to be there. It's worse than TikTok in some ways because it's just. It's just so random. Highly recommend it. Pointer. Pointer.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Good times. All right.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Oh, and in more meta news, Meta is cracking down on Facebook users who repeatedly steal and repost other people's content without permission. Sure.

[Brian Schulmeister]

You mean Facebook.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah. In a new push to protect original creators, Meta says it's already removed around 10 million fake or impersonating profiles in 2025 and penalized over half a million accounts for spam and fake engagement. New rules will reduce the reach of copied photos, videos and text, especially if they offer no original commentary or enhancements. Offenders could lose monetization privileges entirely. Meta is also testing features to link reposts back to the original creators. The goal? Make Facebook feeds more authentic and less cluttered with low effort AI generated or stolen content pushed to the behinds. Well, the thing about it is, is I don't. Who cares if you're copying stuff? There was a great, great documentary called hey, Beautiful Anatomy of a Romance Scam on. I think it was Hulu. Hulu, I believe. And what it does is basically talks. It's this one poor guy who keeps getting his photos stolen and using these romance scams. And they, he, they. There's a, you know, a big reunion with some of the women that were scammed with people using his photos and stuff. And you know, he's supposed to be this big ladies man. It turns out he's like a leather gay guy from From West Hollywood.

[Brian Schulmeister]

It's.

[Jason DeFilippo]

It's a pretty good. It's a really good documentary. And it just highlights how Facebook just does not give a fuck about people stealing other people's photos for scam purposes. But God forbid you post an image, you know, that something could be monetized. Then they kind of get their butt hurt over it.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah. Then they care.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah. Amazing that.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Shocking.

[Jason DeFilippo]

The Dark side.

[Brian Schulmeister]

With Dave.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Welcome to the Dark side with Dave. Podcast super host Dave Bittner knows the game inside and out. Every day he cuts through the noise on the cyber wire. Then he teams up with Joe Kerrigan to expose digital cons on hacking humans. He also digs into privacy with Ben Yellen on caveat, all the while breaking down industrial cybersecurity on controls. And at the end of the day, he proves you can still laugh at all this mess on only malware in the building. The man's got range. Welcome, Dave. Thank you.

[C]

Mile wide, inch deep, right?

[Jason DeFilippo]

That's what she said.

[Brian Schulmeister]

How many rivers have we now taken out? Doing the ChatGPT intros for Dave?

[Jason DeFilippo]

I actually. No, no, no. That one I wrote. I haven't read it out loud yet. I read it in my head, but that one I put together.

[Brian Schulmeister]

All right. Look at you.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah. No, any of the ChatGPT ones. The flow doesn't work. Right. So I read that one in my head. I'd never read it out loud to an audience. So you guys were my first. You were my test audience. You're my beta testers.

[C]

Good site reading.

[Brian Schulmeister]

We're all beta testers now.

[Jason DeFilippo]

So let me ask the subject of the intro. Was that sufficient Dave to.

[C]

Yeah, that was great.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Introduce you with the proper amount of gravitas.

[C]

I mean, it's too much. Really. Too much. Too much.

[Jason DeFilippo]

I'll pare it down next time. Here's Dave.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Here's Dave.

[C]

You know him, you love him, tolerate him. Dave Bittner. Yeah, there we go.

[Brian Schulmeister]

All right, we got a bit of a follow up from last week. Tyndall wrote in. Hey, guys. After hearing save, which I'm assuming means you, Dave, Dave. Talk about orchestras playing video game music, I just wanted to drop a link to a project my friend is involved in. The Irish Video Game Orchestra is a charity group that regularly plays shows featuring music from Final Fantasy Zelda the whole way through to the modern day. Hope you like. And he gave us the YouTube link to the Irish Video Game Orchestra, which was fun. I watched it.

[C]

Nice. Yeah, yeah, I watched it too.

[Jason DeFilippo]

It was fun.

[C]

So I. I saw.

[Brian Schulmeister]

The electricity is crackling in the room today.

[C]

I saw the Superman movie. Have you guys seen the Superman movie?

[Brian Schulmeister]

I have not. I very much want to. To give me the review, Dave.

[C]

I very much enjoyed it.

[Brian Schulmeister]

I think I've heard it's wonderful.

[C]

Yes. This is the Superman we all need right now. This is the optimistic, innocent Superman, not the dark, brooding Superman that DC kind of pivoted to in the recent movies.

[Brian Schulmeister]

I knew it must be good because everybody on the far right hates the it.

[C]

Yes. Yeah. As if, you know, like, the Superman is suddenly woke. Like, have you. Are you familiar with Superman?

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yes, yes.

[Jason DeFilippo]

He's.

[Brian Schulmeister]

He's been fighting Nazis a long time.

[C]

Yeah, he has been. But no, it's. It's a really fun movie and everyone in it is good. The special effects are great and it's. We just had a good time, so. Highly recommended. Crypto. The dog is in it and that's great. It seems as though DC has finally gotten their humor. It felt more like a Marvel movie than a DC movie. And I mean that as a compliment.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Right.

[C]

It's funny. And also, the woman who played Ms.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Maisel is Rachel Brosnan.

[C]

Yes, yes. She is Lois Lane and is wonderful in that role.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Excellent. Well, I'm very much looking forward to seeing it. I. I had intended to do it this week, but you know what happens when you're traveling and with family and all plans go out windows. So, yes, we shall see. But I. I do want to see it very much so. I. I've always been a big Superman fan. I. I did appreciate Henry Cavill. I thought he was a great Superman. But, yes, those movies were definitely dark. You know, Christopher Reeve remains the ironclad Platonian ideal of what Superman should be. But I've heard that this is a very good one, so I'm very much looking forward to it.

[C]

Yeah, Yeah, I recommend it. It was time well spent.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Excellent.

[C]

So we covered this story on the Cyberwire this week, and this is related to conversations we've been having here. This is about a YouTuber who is facing jail time for showing off Android based gaming handheld devices. So the gaming devices that we've been talking about here, the emulators, turns out that Italy has very strict copyright protection laws. And so this Italian YouTuber who showed off playing some. Some, let's say, borrowed ROMs on his handheld device could face up to three years in jail for violating Italian copyright law for running stolen retro games.

[Brian Schulmeister]

First, that's crazy that he would get three years of jail for doing that. And secondly, is this reasonably new, this hardcore Italian copyright policies? Because I certainly remember from my teens and, and twenties, one of the, some of the best bootleg CDs all came out of Italy. Like all of them, like Nine Inch Nails, like live concert rips and the Cure and, and bootleg, you know, demos. And there were Italian labels that just pumped this out. So obviously they didn't have a big, big, big, they didn't have these policies back, you know, 20, 30 years ago. So this must be reasonably new.

[C]

Yeah, I don't know. Or, or could it be a, the equal and opposite response to.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Right.

[C]

The heavy hand of the copyright police over there. I don't know. Yeah, the stories that when we covered this over on Cyberwire, and I know there was some additional information we had had about the fact that Italy does have very strict copyright. I don't remember the specific case we referred to, but, you know, it's a thing over there and it does seem kind of bonkers to me that something like this could, could lead to jail time.

[Brian Schulmeister]

But yeah, I mean, especially just for somebody that's got a YouTube channel showcasing the products. He's not making the products. That's, that's always been the crazy thing to me is like, you don't go after the consumer, you go after the, the creators, the, and yeah, so anyways, yeah, there you go.

[C]

Yeah, it reminds me of the, the early days of MP3s when you, I remember talking about burning a CD, like a mix CD on a Usenet group, and other people chiming in and saying, hey, watch what you say. They're going to come after you, you know, because, because they were coming after you or grandmas were being locked up.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah. Well, we had just mentioned Metallica in a different context, but again, of course there was the famous case of them going after, not Napster, but a complete list of Napster usernames that had downloaded their music. Again, you should go after the, you should have gone after Napster, not the grandma that accidentally downloaded Enter Sandman.

[C]

Right.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah. These laws started to take effect in 20, 23. 3.

[Brian Schulmeister]

There you go, There you go. I, I, yeah, I absolutely knew that some of the best, you know, copyright infringement in the world musically came out of Italy when I was younger.

[C]

Well, maybe the laws are an equal and opposite reaction to that, so who knows what can't. Yeah, interesting.

[Jason DeFilippo]

So I put this one in here because I thought it was kind of a fun, fun website and we might be, we're old enough to, to really kind of get a kick out of this. It's called Are we Trek Yet? And basically it is a list of technologies that were prevalent in Star Trek and where we are in our current day as far as getting to those ideals. We've got bio and medical computing, defense energy, holo and VR materials, robo and cyber and transport. And did you guys get a chance to check this out yet?

[C]

I'm looking at it right now. Yeah.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah. I really enjoy this site. This is one of those single use sites that you love so much, Jason, that I enjoy very, very much. Much copyright infringement on design, of course, I'm sure. Yeah. But you know, it's a good thing he didn't make it in Italy.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, well, I could have sent him the right fonts. He up on the fonts. This is kind of a half assed acudogram. I could have given him the real deal easy. Yeah, no, maybe I'll reach out.

[Brian Schulmeister]

This is fun. I, you know, it's, I like the, the links. I would have, you know, he could have spent a little time in chat GPT and done some paragraphs about each of these so you wouldn't have to link out to the companies. But an awful lot of things haven't been stuck. Start it. Which is sad, but it is science fiction. But yeah, we have solar collectors. There's a green one. I like that.

[C]

Holo VR. The augmented reality visor. Yeah, got that.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Thank God most of the ones in Defense are still red and not started as far as we know. True, true.

[C]

Transparent aluminum is available. Who knew?

[Jason DeFilippo]

That's a thing, man.

[C]

Okay, well.

[Jason DeFilippo]

And you can talk to your computer. Computer.

[C]

Yeah, that's true.

[Brian Schulmeister]

That's true. That is true. Yeah. No, this is a fun little side. I really enjoyed it.

[C]

Yeah, I like that. Automatic sliding doors, gets up, gets listed. I mean, yeah, I'm just.

[Jason DeFilippo]

I was amazed that hypospray is definitely available now. I didn't know that we could do that. Apparently we can. So you can inject drugs transdermally without a needle. So neat. Okay, hook me up. Why am I still getting jabbed when I get my damn Covid shot is what I want to know.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Because these probably cost an awful lot. Lot more.

[C]

It's because of your attitude, Jason.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Oh, I thought it was because I had shitty insurance.

[C]

Come strutting into that place saying, jab me. And so they do.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Well, it's because I pulled out my pants instead. Like it in the right cheek. And they're like, it's your arm, sir.

[C]

This is Wendy's, sir.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Your point?

[C]

Moving on. Kind of related to this Trek thing. A lovely TED talk came by yesterday that really kind of captured my imagination. It's called tech Promised Everything. Did it deliver? And it's a look back at the early days of 8 bit computers, which we were around for. And just is technology delivering on its promise that we have computers that are more powerful than we possibly could have imagined? And what are they actually being used for? It's a bit of a cautionary tale, but overall it's the delivery that this gentleman gives that I found particularly compelling.

[Brian Schulmeister]

So I'd be remiss if I did not point out that he is wearing a Dharmak and Jalad at Tanaka T shirt.

[Jason DeFilippo]

It's a Star Trek T shirt. I so want his T shirt.

[C]

Yes, it's beautiful. I did notice that as well. But it's a heartfelt presentation and a couple moments in it that I did not see coming that were quite moving. So if you are someone like us who grew up in this era, this is probably time well spent for you. So.

[Brian Schulmeister]

So I might have to watch this. I was telling Jason earlier that sometimes doing this show basically saps my will to live. So if there's a bit of hope in this one, I will watch this. Yes.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. So the other thing I wanted to touch on today with you guys is looking back on the Apple ii. Did either of you have an Apple ii?

[Brian Schulmeister]

No, I did not. My friend did. I was very pro PC back at this point in time. I was all PCs. Yeah.

[C]

So the point you got into computers, PCs were already available.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yes, yes. They had started. I mean, to be fair, I did start like with a Commodore 64 as well. You know, early gaming, like the early went to the gaming and then, then I started PCs.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

What about YouTube?

[Jason DeFilippo]

My first one was an IBM XT. No hard drives, two five and a quarter inch floppies.

[C]

Okay.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yep. Only the rich kids in school had the apples at that point.

[C]

Right, right. Well, I want to kind of get to that. I mean, the first computer I owned was a TRS 80 color computer. I learned about computers on TRS 80 model ones like at a summer camp kind of situation. And there were some Apple iis that there. But the thing I'm trying to puzzle my way through is how the Apple II got this mystique about it when it was an okay computer, but it wasn't that great. Like I'd put the Commodore 64 up against it. I'd put the TRS 80 color computer up against the Apple II. Cost like three times as much as either of those computers. It was technically a color computer, but I Don't remember ever seeing somebody with a color monitor on an Apple ii. Right.

[Jason DeFilippo]

I thought the IIC was the first color one.

[C]

Now Apple II plus could was capable of color in a limited way, but you just never saw my take is that the computer, the Apple IIS were so expensive already. They were like $1,400 and you had to have a floppy drive really to make that computer practical. So you were already so expensive. It seems like a monochrome monitor was where you could maybe save a few bucks. And again, I don't remember anybody having a color monitor on their Apple II plus even though it was capable of it. But like the Apple II was not the best at playing games. It didn't have any dedicated sound hardware like the Commodore 64 had. It was limited in its color capabilities. It was again, way more expensive than the competition. It was well made. It was built like a brick. It had slots when the other computers did. It generally came with more RAM than those other computers did, sort of at the entry level. I don't know anyone who had a 4K Apple II. They, you know, they pretty much. If you had an Apple II, you probably had 48k of RAM in it, which at the time again was pricey. But like.

[Brian Schulmeister]

So you're saying you're a hater?

[C]

No, that's the thing. I'm not. Because I wanted one. Like I coveted the Apple too.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Right.

[C]

But I'm trying to reverse engineer in retrospect why and is it was just because it was unattainable, because there was no way my family could afford one. There wasn't anything that it did that I couldn't do on my little color computer. Especially by the time I got it fully outfitted, you know. And so I don't know, I was curious if you guys, first of all, if you agree with me that the Apple II had a certain mystique to it.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Oh, definitely. I mean it's. I don't know. My question is, did it have it at the time? I'm guessing no. I think this is probably a later thing. Right?

[C]

Like the mystique.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah. As the years have gone by, it's just become the thing, right?

[C]

No, I mean, I think at the time it was the computer. If money were no object and you were buying a home computer, you got an Apple ii. And again, I think because it was the first to really have floppy drives and all of the things that floppy drives enabled because for the time it was high speed, high capacity storage. So it kind of puts you in a different level than Those of us who were just using cassette tapes to load and save, they have our stuff. And a lot of schools had Apple iis so you could lay hands upon them, but actually having one was different. Jason, do you think, do you agree there was a mystique?

[Jason DeFilippo]

I don't really know because, I mean, at that point I was a PC guy. I had my own homemade PC when those are kind of going. It even had a turbo boost button on it. My.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason DeFilippo]

But so I was like, you know, playing games on mine. I wasn't really caring that much about the app because I was like, you know, Mr. Windows at that point. I didn't really get into the Mac side of things until I started working at Kinko's in 1993. And we had a 2ci. And then I lived on the 2ci until then. We moved that to a quadra, but. And then at school we had the two Cs. So I did some programming on a two C in school and I thought it was cool, but I still liked my PC better because the games were better. I mean, that was. The thing is, like, if you played games, you didn't care about Apples. So it was just like I looked down my nose at Apple people at that point.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Well, and I was super into like modding like I wanted. I loved being able to open up my PC, pull out memory chips, put in different memory chips, get the sound cards, get the video card. I loved building my own systems. And you couldn't do that with Apple, right? I mean, well, the Apple II could.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Ish.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, the Apple ii, that's the thing.

[Brian Schulmeister]

But it was also prohibitively expensive. So for me it was like, PCs are cheaper. I can buy all these different parts cheaper. I can build my own system that is better, way cheaper. And that was, that was the fun for me as a kid. Like, that's what really got me into computing. It was almost not even using the computer. It was building the computer. I was into that.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Like hard fun.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. I think the, the, the other fundamental truth about the Apple II at the time. So I'm talking about the pre PC era when you had basically Apple, Commodore, Atari and Radio Shack were the primary providers of what we would call home computers. I think the other thing about the Apple II that it had going for it was it was probably the computer that most had one foot in the business side of things. Things because the Apple II had Visicalc, and Visicalc was first to the Apple ii. And again, because you had floppy drives, you could run Visicalc Also, Apple had really good text capabilities and you could get an 80 column card for it. So again, for business uses where it was easier to justify the expense of an Apple ii, it made a lot of sense. And so I think that probably propped up them up.

[Brian Schulmeister]

A lot of people I knew that had it were doing like page layouts and stuff like that, which was like mind blowing. Like, oh, cool. How interesting is that? You can like make your own, like newspaper and stuff from that.

[C]

Right, right, Yeah. I mean, that's one of the things I was trying to think back on is just the pricing difference because by the time you got to the Macintosh, which is and continues to be more expensive or the expensive choice, it's of computers. But you could look at the operating system and say, okay, this operating system is different. And for the people who enjoy it, it makes sense that they would pay a premium to have that experience. But it's not like the Apple II had a great operating system. You know, I mean, there was. It had dos. It had basically Apple dos. Yeah, I mean, there wasn't. Yeah, it. It's just interesting to me. Like, I don't. What was the Apple II exceptional at?

[Jason DeFilippo]

Costing a lot of money, it seems the introductory price was $1,298, which is equivalent to $6,740 in 2024.

[C]

Wow.

[Jason DeFilippo]

So that's why businesses are the only ones that could actually afford it.

[Brian Schulmeister]

I think maybe it was like owning a DeLorean. They weren't great cars, but they were expensive cars.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it could just be that the VisiCalc thing is the thing that's the difference, that having that first introducing, basically making the spreadsheet available to the world was the thing that launched the Apple II into success. But I don't know. I definitely coveted it, but now I don't know that I would have had a better experience had I been able to have one. Like, if I. I'm thinking back to teenage me. If I had an Apple II and I had my TRS 80s sitting side by side, which one would I have used more? And I'm not sure.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Right.

[C]

I still wanted the Apple ii, still got it.

[Brian Schulmeister]

I was all in on PC and remained all in on PC for decades after that.

[C]

Yeah, I was surprised how long the Apple II survived after the introduction of the PCs. I mean, they still sold the hell out of those things for like a decade after anybody thought they would. You know, they Even into the Apple or past the Macintosh phase, they were still the Apple iis were just keeping the company afloat.

[Jason DeFilippo]

So anyway, I mean, the two cis, that was, you know, our workhorse at Kinko's and that was. Was, you know, mid-90s. So that alone they sold. They. They made those things till 93 the 2 CIS, which is crazy. Yeah, because they were horrible. They were horrible. I mean, we upgraded. We upgraded to a Quadra at one point, which, you know, when the Quadras first came out. But then we had these. It's called a Fiery, which was the name of the. The. The. It's kind of like a laser printer, like a color laser printer that we could hook up. So we got an SGI in Kinko's. I remember those. Yeah, yeah. So they gave us basically a really stripped down sgi. And that was like the coolest thing. And I was just like, how the hell does this work? And that was right when the web was starting to come out. So I'm learning how to program on an sgi.

[C]

Wow.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Doing that stuff. If they wouldn't have given us that sgi, that would have been nuts. But the thing about it, it had a very minimal 3D light bike game on it. So you could play light bike bike like you're in Tron. Like a first person light.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Oh, God, I totally remember that.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pretty cool.

[C]

Yeah.

[Jason DeFilippo]

But yeah, the IICI definitely got me into the Mac environment because the first thing after that I bought was the first. My first Mac that I owned was a Quadra 650.

[C]

Okay. Yeah. My girlfriend at the time, who's now my wife, had an SE30 in college. And so that was my first introduction to the Macintosh. And I came into it with my nose in the air, like many people thinking that the Mac was a toy. And then through using hers, I was like, huh, it's pretty good. This is easier. Oh, okay. I like this. And so here I am 30 some years later. But those Quadra. Yeah, I had a Quadra 700, which was. Was probably my all time favorite Mac was the 700. That was a really nice machine.

[Brian Schulmeister]

I like the lime green imac.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. I had a purple imac, which I liked very much. So I have a link to a webpage that is all about Apple II history. So if you're interested, you can go on a trip down memory lane, which I've already done for you.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Appreciate. Appreciate it.

[C]

It's interesting to me that I guess I am just enough older than the two of you that my experience with this part of early computer history is a little different because there were no. Because I got into it before there was the PCs, they didn't exist.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah, yeah, I just threw up a link. Since we're doing old computers, I'll show you the first laptop that I ever had and it was very early and the only reason I had this laptop is my father worked for an airline. He was an air cargo supervisor and someone left it and it stayed there for months. It was never claimed. And then finally my dad was like, well, now it's time that I get to take it home. And he brought it home to me and it was the Kaypro 2000.

[Jason DeFilippo]

I've never seen one of these.

[Brian Schulmeister]

I had this thing.

[Jason DeFilippo]

You still have it?

[Brian Schulmeister]

No, I. No, no, it's long, long gone.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Okay.

[Brian Schulmeister]

I had it and I loved playing around with this thing. It was great.

[C]

Yeah, that's a cool looking laptop.

[Jason DeFilippo]

It is.

[C]

It looks like a Simmons digital drum, doesn't it?

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah, it kind of does.

[C]

Yeah. It's got that. It's of that era. Definitely 80s industrial design.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah, it was, it was a lot of fun. I remember playing around with it vividly. So, yeah.

[C]

Monochrome, non backlit lcd. Oof.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Yeah. Fancy.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, very nice. Four hour battery hair.

[Jason DeFilippo]

Sure.

[C]

Yeah. All right, well gents, that's what I have. So thank you for indulging me and thank you. See you next time.

[Jason DeFilippo]

See you next week. Closing Shout out. Over on Patreon, we've got two new subscribers, Jocelyn and Alistair. Thank you very much and call me Nick and Tony J up their pledges and from the Legacy Files, Jason, Tamario, Matt, Jack, Joe, Christopher, Martin, John, Michael and Marcus. We thank you all so much for your continued support on Patreon.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Thank you all so much. Over at PayPal we've got Nathaniel, Arcadio, Shari, Linda, Andrew, Brett Sloan, Natalie and Chris with a big $50 donation. Thank you all so much.

[Jason DeFilippo]

And over at the Tip Jar we've got Sarah, Matthew, Theodore, Sean and Don D with the big 60 bucks. Thank you very much. And just a reminder, if you want to support the show, head on over to patreon.com do you get the show a little bit early ad free and in high definition and you know, little as three bucks a month. And if you want to pay for the whole year, you can and you get a discount. So there you go. And if you just want to generally donate to the show to help keep us on the air, go to gog show. Donate. And we got some merch this week. John Andre bought some merch from us. We thank you very much, John. And no reviews. Sorry.

[Brian Schulmeister]

Brian no reviews no reviews. Nobody of notable died. Until next time. I'm Brian Schillmeister.

[Jason DeFilippo]

And I'm Jason DeFilippo. Thanks for listening to Grumpy Old Geeks. Get all the links and goodies from Today's episode at GOG Show705 want to keep the grumpiness alive? Toss a few bucks our way at GOG Show. Donate every penny helps keep the show on the air. Love the show. Share it There's a share button in your podcast player. Use it to spread the grumpiness to friends, foes and everyone in between and we'll love you for it. Swing by GOG show to join our discord and chat with us and other show fans. Got thoughts? Feedbacks? Cool links? Hit us up at GOG Show Contact and hey, don't forget to leave a five star review at GOG Show Review and we'll read it on the show. And guess what we've got Merch. Snag your grumpy gear now at Shop GOG Show Stay grumpy.