Are All Backlinks Helpful? - Episode 84

Summary

Podcast Summary: Grumpy SEO Guy - "Are All Backlinks Helpful?" (Episode 84)

Release Date: November 27, 2024

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I. Introduction

In Episode 84 of the "Grumpy SEO Guy" podcast, titled "Are All Backlinks Helpful?", the host delves into the often-debated topic of backlinks within the SEO landscape. Drawing from his 14 years of experience running an SEO agency, Grumpy SEO Guy aims to dispel common myths and provide clarity on how backlinks influence website rankings. The episode is structured to address listener questions, provide actionable insights, and challenge prevailing misconceptions about backlinks and their impact on SEO.

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II. Clarifying Authority Metrics: DA, DR, and PageRank

Grumpy SEO Guy begins by addressing the confusion surrounding authority metrics such as Domain Authority (DA) and Domain Rating (DR). He explains:

"Authority is a word that refers to how much significance does your website or your webpage have." (03:03)

He elaborates that DA (Moz) and DR (Ahrefs) are third-party estimations of a website's authority, modeled after Google's now-defunct PageRank system. PageRank was once a primary indicator of a site's authority but has since been discontinued and kept internal by Google. Consequently, tools like Moz and Ahrefs provide their proprietary metrics to approximate a site's authority, though these are not official measures used by search engines.

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III. Debunking the Myth: Higher Authority Backlinks Are Necessarily Better

A common misconception addressed in the episode is the belief that backlinks from higher authority websites are inherently more beneficial, while those from lower authority sites can be harmful. Grumpy SEO Guy tackles this by posing the question frequently asked by his audience:

"Is it true that backlinks from websites with more authority help you and with less authority hurt you?" (01:55)

His clear response is:

"No, websites with less authority than you that link to you do not hurt you." (02:45)

He emphasizes that all backlinks from standard, non-spammy websites contribute positively to a site's SEO. The key takeaway is that while higher authority backlinks may provide more "link juice," lower authority backlinks are still valuable and do not harm a website's standing.

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IV. The Value of Authority in Backlinks: An Analogy

To illustrate the concept of authority in backlinks, Grumpy SEO Guy employs a financial analogy:

"If you're a millionaire, and I have $1,000, and I give you a dollar, you're still getting a dollar. It doesn't matter that I have $1,000 and I gave you a dollar." (06:35)

This analogy serves to demonstrate that the absolute value of a backlink remains beneficial regardless of the authority disparity between the linking and linked websites. However, he clarifies that while higher authority links may provide more benefit proportionally, lower authority links still offer tangible SEO advantages.

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V. Impact of Outbound Links on Link Value

Grumpy SEO Guy highlights another critical factor influencing the value of backlinks: the number of outbound links on a webpage. He explains that:

"If you have a webpage with a lot of authority and also a lot of outbound links, it is possible that each of those links carries less link juice than a smaller number of links from a lower authority webpage." (08:24)

This means that a high-authority page distributing many backlinks may dilute the value each individual link provides. Conversely, fewer outbound links can concentrate the link juice, enhancing the SEO benefit of each backlink.

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VI. Understanding Nofollow Backlinks

Addressing the debate over nofollow links, Grumpy SEO Guy clarifies their role in SEO:

"All backlinks that come from regular websites help you. They all help you. If they have smaller authority, they might help you less." (15:53)

He references a 2019 statement from Google, explaining that nofollow links are treated as hints rather than strict directives:

"When nofollow is introduced, Google would not count any link marked this way as a signal to use within our search algorithms. This has now changed all the link attributes. Sponsored, UGC and NoFollow are treated as hints about which links to consider or exclude within search." (13:48)

Grumpy SEO Guy advises listeners not to obsess over the ratio of dofollow to nofollow links, affirming that:

"It is normal to get nofollow backlinks. They are normal. The point that you should take away from this episode is that all backlinks that come from regular websites help you." (10:31)

He encourages maintaining a natural backlink profile, where a mix of dofollow and nofollow links is typical and beneficial.

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VII. Conclusion: Embracing All Worthwhile Backlinks

In wrapping up the episode, Grumpy SEO Guy reiterates the central message:

"All backlinks help you. They all help you. As long as you're doing them correctly." (15:56)

He emphasizes that backlinks from reputable, non-spammy sites are advantageous, regardless of their individual authority levels. The host encourages listeners to focus on acquiring a diverse and natural backlink profile rather than fixating solely on authority metrics or backlink quantities.

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Key Takeaways

1. Authority Metrics Are Estimates: DA and DR are third-party approximations of a website's authority, not official Google metrics.
2. All Quality Backlinks Are Beneficial: Backlinks from standard, reputable websites support SEO, irrespective of their authority relative to your site.
3. Outbound Links Impact Link Value: The number of outbound links on a page can influence the SEO benefit of each backlink.
4. Nofollow Links Are Normal and Beneficial: A natural backlink profile includes a mix of dofollow and nofollow links, both contributing positively to SEO.
5. Focus on Quality Over Quantity: Prioritize obtaining backlinks from relevant and reputable sources rather than chasing high-authority links exclusively.

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Additional Resources

For listeners seeking to deepen their understanding of backlinks and authority metrics, Grumpy SEO Guy recommends previous episodes:

• Episode 37: "The Difference Between Good Backlinks and Bad Backlinks"
• Episode 39: "The Difference Between Good Backlinks and Bad Backlinks, Part Two"
• Episode 38: "NoFollow and Other Link Attributes"

Subscribers are encouraged to engage with the podcast through the Grumpy SEO Guy subreddit or by emailing [e-mail], ensuring their messages are not misdirected to spam folders.

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This summary encapsulates the essential discussions and insights from Episode 84 of the Grumpy SEO Guy podcast, providing listeners and non-listeners alike with a comprehensive understanding of the nuances surrounding backlinks and their impact on SEO.

Transcript

[A]

This is Grumpy SEO Guy, episode 84, do all backlinks help? You're listening to Grumpy SEO Guy, the SEO podcast that doesn't waste your time with nonsense that doesn't work. I'm the grumpy SEO Guy, and I'm sharing with you the strategies that have helped me successfully run my SEO agency for the last 14 years. In this podcast, I'll be sharing my knowledge and experience, discussing tips and strategies, and trying to help you cut through the confusion that permeates this industry. If you listen to this podcast, you will know more about SEO than 99% of people on the planet. Ready? Let's get started. I'm the grumpy SEO guy. Let me tell you why I'm grumpy today. I'm grumpy today because there is still some uncertainty around particular aspects of backlinks. So we're gonna talk about that today, okay? But before we do that, my lawyer tells me that I have to say this right now. A quick disclaimer before we get started. Everything I say here is based on my experience and opinion from 14 years in the industry. I don't officially know how Google or any other search engines work. Everything I say here is hypothetical. And based on my experience, this podcast does not constitute advice or services. What worked for me may or may not work for you. Okay, back to the show. But before I actually start, I wanna say I have done other episodes on how backlinks work.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

So if you're curious, if you're just starting and you're wondering about backlinks, I would recommend that you listen to episodes 37 and 39.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And those are called the Difference Between Good Backlinks and Bad Backlinks, and. And the Difference Between Good Backlinks and Bad Backlinks, part two.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It goes into detail about what kind of backlinks help, what kind of backlinks hurt, and so on. But we're gonna talk about things that are a little bit dissimilar from that in this episode, because there's one question that I have been frequently getting, and I'm gonna give the question, and I'm gonna share the answer with you, and then we're just gonna talk about some other stuff.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

So how about I just tell you the question right now?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

People have been asking me this question or question very close to it. They say, grumpy SEO Guy, is it true that you should only get backlinks from websites with more authority than you? And they usually say DA or doctor instead of Authority. But you guys know the whole thing about that, so I'm not gonna repeat it. Just kidding. Yes, I will. But I'm gonna tell you at the end. And is it true that websites with less authority than you, if they link to you, it's bad for you, it will harm your website. So that question is very intriguing to me because I never thought of it ever. No offense. It's a good question. I've just. I was surprised the first time I got asked that question, and then I got asked it, like, again, and I'm just like, wow, okay, we gotta talk about it. So first answer to the question is no. The answer is no.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Websites with less authority than you that link to you do not hurt you.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay, let's stop and let's talk about Dr. And DA and authority for a second.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Authority is a word that refers to how much significance does your website or your webpage have.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Doctor Is a measure and estimate of authority by a tool called Ahrefs. It's Ahrefs.com a h r e f s.com da is a measure of authority by Moz, which you can [e-mail] they are guesses at how much authority a website has. Because the real measure of authority is not provided anymore. The real measure of authority comes from Google. It is called PageRank. It is not provided anymore. And I have other episodes that explain why they stopped providing it. They still calculate it. They just don't release it. So you cannot look at a webpage or a website and tell how much PR page rank it has because you cannot do that. Other tools made their own versions of it, which are guesses. The slightly longer version, for those of you who care, most of you know this already is this. Google uses a measurement called page rank. Basically means how much authority does a page have? At any rate, they used to publish this, and there were tools that you could use to see how much page rank a specific page had. It was awesome. Anyway, what happened was people started leveraging it for their own SEO and selling backlinks based on how much PageRank a site had. So they stopped publishing it. And when it stopped being published, different companies like Moz and Ahrefs and so on created their own version or their own guess as to how to determine the authority of a page using their own metrics. Okay, but it's not an official thing. No, no search engines actually use DA or Dr. Or anything like that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But since you cannot see page rank anymore, you can use these as guesses. So anyway, the question was. Let me repeat the question again. Is it true that backlinks from websites with more authority help you and with less authority hurt you, meaning more authority than you or less authority than you? The answer is, no, it does not. And here's the reason. All backlinks. Well, let me make sure I say this correctly. All backlinks from normal websites help you. All backlinks help you. Yes, There are exceptions to that. If you're getting spammy backlinks. If you're getting backlinks from penalized websites, you know, if you're getting. That's not what I'm talking about. That's why I've said normal, okay? All backlinks from standard websites help you. They help you. They only help you unless they do it wrong, okay? If it's spammy, if there's a penalty, if it's a link farm, if it's any of the bad things that we talk about in other episodes, listen to episodes 37 and 39, okay? They will help you. Okay, here's an analogy. Here's an analogy that will. That will make sense if. If you're a millionaire, okay? Let's not think about authority. Let's think about. Let's think about finances, okay? If you're a millionaire, okay, and I have $1,000, okay? So you have way more money than I do. If I give you a dollar, you're still getting a dollar. It doesn't matter that I have $1,000 and I gave you a dollar, you're still getting a dollar, you're still making money. If you're a millionaire, you're still. And a billionaire gives you a dollar, you're still getting a dollar.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

It doesn't matter that he has more money than you. It doesn't matter that I have less money than you. You're still getting a dollar, okay? You can think of authority that way. Look, I know somebody is listening to this episode and they're going, I know somebody is listening to this episode, and they're like, that's not true. Because you said. You said authority. More authority. And a website gives more authority with the backlinks. So it's not the same as a dollar from a billionaire or a dollar from a thousand heir. Okay, yes, well, you're generally right, but we're just talking about the concept of giving link juice anyway.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

If you really want to look at it like that, okay, you would have to think of it in terms of percentage gain. Okay, I probably need to avoid this analogy because I feel like people are Going to misunderstand this, but I'm going to do it anyway. Think of the value of a link as being a percentage of the authority.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

So if we're gonna talk about money, your billionaire, let's say your billionaire invests, okay? And makes 10% return on his money. So he invested a billion dollars and he got 10%.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

So how much is that now? That's $100 million, okay? 10% of a billion dollars. Now that thousand heir, he invests in the same fund, he makes 10%. What's 10% of $1,000? It's $100.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

So they both made 10%, but the billionaire made more because he had more money to begin with.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

So all else being equal, websites with higher authority will provide more authority in a backlink because they have higher authority. But that doesn't mean that less authority on a webpage will not be useful in a backlink. It just means you're not getting as much.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

It just means you're not getting as much. So one more thing that I want to say really fast here, okay? Listen, because the number of outbound links matters, okay? It is possible, and this is a large thing that you should pay attention to. It is possible for a higher authority webpage to share less authority from a backlink than a lower authority webpage. If you have a. Look, I don't know the exact formula that is used, okay? But I will tell you this, if you have. I'm trying to keep people from counting this stuff and like, trying to do math that, like, nobody understands, okay? So look, if you have a webpage with a lot of authority and also a lot of outbound links, it is possible that each of those links carries less link juice than a smaller number of links from a lower authority webpage.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

That's all I'm gonna say. So we're actually gonna talk more about this in the future because I'm actually deciding to not continue to provide more information about this right now because I don't want to distract the purpose of this episode. But number of outbound links is a big deal. And you know how in another episode, I think it was like episode two or something, I can't remember, I said I talked about link farms and why they're bad, okay? But number of outbound links is a big deal, both in regard to, you know, keeping yourself from being mentioned on a link farm, but also. So when there are too many outbound links on a website, none of them carry very much authority. And it doesn't matter how much authority the webpage has. I just wanted to mention it because I know that somebody has that question while we're discussing backlinks. But all links help. If your doctor is 60 and you get a backlink from a website that's doctor four, it still helps you because it's a backlink as long as it doesn't have any of the things that we talked about before.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

So yes, all links are good when they come from good websites. Do not worry about authority. I have even stressed before on numerous episodes not to even think about things like doctor or number of backlinks, which is kind of unrelated right now. But it's another thing that people put way too much value on. And it's like probably the smallest value thing you should look at, right? What did I tell you in some other episode? I said next time you're in whatever SEO software you use, I want you to ignore number of backlinks.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

Now definitely pay attention to referring domains, but ignore number of backlinks because it ultimately doesn't matter. So the next thing that we need to talk about because I know somebody is thinking this too. Well, what if it's nofollow? Does a nofollow link help? Some website gave me a backlink, but it's a no follow backlink. Okay, guys, okay, first of all, I have an entire episode on NoFollow and the other attributes that a link can have, like sponsored and user generated content. That's episode 38. You should go listen to that one. But here's the thing. There's always been a lot of argument over how important are nofollow backlinks. Do they actually pass link juice? They say they don't pass link juice. Look, okay, look, if you get a nofollow backlink, I probably would avoid complaining because it's still a backlink. And here's the thing. Wait for it. Wait for it. No follow backlinks are normal. It is normal to get no follow backlinks. And what is the first rule of SEO? Would this ever organically happen? Okay, so if you're getting no follow backlinks every once in a while, yes, that is normal. It is good for your website. Do not be like, excuse me, blogger, please change the no follow backlink to a follow. You should probably try to stay away from doing that. And what you should do is be like, cool, I got a backlink. Somebody liked my content enough to link to it. It is normal to have no follow backlinks. Not a lot, but like some. So anyway, People make a big deal out of, oh, how many? What's the proper ratio? 20% nofollow, 15% nofollow. Those are fine. It's fine. There's not a problem. Okay, I'm gonna say this one more time and then we're move on. Just kidding. We're not gonna move on, but I'm gonna say it one more time anyway. It is normal to get no follow backlinks. They are normal. It makes your website look like a standard website and probably will be considered favorably by the search engines. Okay, if you want to learn more about the ratio, you should listen to the episode that I just mentioned in there. There is a lot of talk about the ratio of dofollow to nofollow. And dofollow is not even a real thing. And you'll learn that in the episode. Now, one more thing that I want to say because everybody's like, well, nofollow links don't help anyway. Okay, look, this is something that Google posted. I'll tell you the address in a minute so you can verify it yourself. But let me read it to you first. Okay, this is from 2019. Specifically, it is from the ninth month in 2019. Was that September? Yes, September. Okay, September 2019.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Google said this. I'm going to read this to you and then I'm going to give you the address so you can read it yourself. They wrote this is from Google, okay, On Google's website. Okay, so Google said this. When nofollow is introduced, Google would not count any link marked this way as a signal to use within our search algorithms. This has now changed all the link attributes. Sponsored, UGC and NoFollow are treated as hints about which links to consider or exclude within search, end quote. Okay, so they're using them as hints, not as like definite fact about not to consider the link.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And if you want to look up this article yourself, here's the address. It's kind of long, but I'm going to share it anyway. Search Blog2019:09 Evolving NoFollow New Ways to identify and it's like pretty much at the top. You don't even have to scroll down very far to find that. So anyway, Google themselves writes that nofollow is not certain.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

It's a hint. All right, Anyway, look, so anyway, Google themselves writes this. So, I mean, people are still not gonna believe it. That's fine. But look, if you're getting nofollow links, it's fine. The point that you should take away from this episode is that all backlinks that come from regular websites help you. They all help you. If they have smaller authority, they might help you less. So the amount of authority that a webpage has might affect how much authority you get from a backlink. But all backlinks help you.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

They all help you. As long as you're doing them correctly.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

That's the message from this episode. I hope it made sense. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe and if you enjoy this podcast, please leave a review. It would really help the show out. I hope this episode was helpful. If you have any questions or want to suggest a subject for a future episode, you can contact me on Reddit. My username is Grumpy SEO Guy. You can visit the Grumpy SEO Guy subreddit or you can email [e-mail] if you email me, please either whitelist my email address or check your junk folders because I've been told that my replies are going into the junk folder and it's probably because we're talking about things like SEO and backlinks, and I think those words will classify an email as spam. And if you want to support the podcast because it's the best source of SEO information on the planet and it's free, you can do [e-mail] grumpy SEO guy and I will talk to you later. You're listening to Grumpy SEO Guy, the SEO podcast that doesn't waste your time with nonsense that doesn't work. Join us next Wednesday when we talk about it has to be backlinks because it's not content.