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This is Grumpy SEO guy, episode 136, hiring an SEO Agency. So this is gonna be a quick episode, and I'm not in the studio right now. I'm in my car. So I'm recording this on my phone, and I hope the sound quality is okay. If it's not okay, I apologize. Anyways, now, no intro, because this is going to be another short episode, but I want to talk about hiring an SEO agency, okay? Because from time to time, I see the question pop up on the forums. How do I hire an SEO agency? What do I look for in an SEO agency? What questions should I ask if I'm hiring somebody? And so on and so on. So I want to talk a little bit about that, and I think this episode might frustrate some people because I'm probably not going to answer those questions the way you want me to, but I'm going to provide a reason as to why I don't answer them that way. So the big thing you want to do is when you're interviewing somebody, you want to screen them as much as you can to make sure they actually understand SEO. Now, it's. It's kind of challenging because you have to understand SEO yourself in order to do this. Okay? Now, luckily for you, I've released lots of episodes that explain how SEO works. So hopefully you have a good understanding of at least the basics of SEO. You don't have to have listened to every episode, but if you've even listened to a few, there's a good chance that you probably understand it to a higher level than most people. So that's cool. But you need to make sure that they actually understand it and that they're not just saying things that sound good. So, for example, if you ask them, you know, how are you going to get us to the top of the search engines? Because now, wait a minute. What's the purpose of SEO? The purpose of SEO is to get to the top of the search engines, right? Yes. So if you ask them and feel free, by the way, that's a good question to ask. How are you going to get us to the top of the search engines if they continue to talk about things like, oh, we're going to write you really good content, you know, probably don't work with that person because look. Or that agency because look. So I've said this before, but there's three types of SEO agencies, okay? There's agencies that don't build backlinks. Okay. And generally don't get results. There's agencies that do build backlinks, but won't tell their clients that because. And the reason for this is because there are times. Look, if you. If you are an SEO provider, okay, there are times when you will lose a prospect if you mention backlinks, because some people think that you definitely never need to build backlinks, and as soon as you mention it, they don't want to work with you. So there are agencies that build backlinks, but don't tell their clients. You don't want to work with one of those agencies because they're not being truthful, okay? They're not being truthful about what they're doing anyways. And the third kind of SEO agency is the agency that tells their clients what they're doing and builds backlinks, okay? So if you're asking them how you're gonna get us to the top of the search engines, and they're not mentioning backlinks, don't work with them, because they either don't know how SEO works or they're not being truthful with you about what they're gonna do. Both of those are scenarios that you do not want to work with the agency. So that's just my opinion. Okay? Second thing that you need to know is you might know a lot about SEO, but when you're interviewing somebody, it is their job to demonstrate their knowledge to you, not your job to demonstrate your knowledge to them. Does that make sense? So even if you. You might think, oh, I'm so smart, oh, I'm gonna. This guy runs an SEO agency, and I'm gonna. I'm gonna talk. I'm gonna. I'm gonna show him how much I know. He's gonna be so impre. No, no. They need to impress you, not the other way around. You're. You're a prospect, right? So no. Okay? So anyways, they need to impress you. So, like, for example, if I was on an interview, if I was interviewing an SEO agency to do work for a website or something, I know a lot about SEO, right? But I would. I would not go in there asking complicated questions, trying to demonstrate how smart I am, because that doesn't matter, okay? Like, they need to demonstrate to me that they know what they're talking about, not the other way around. And just. I would. I would go in there and act like I don't know anything about SEO Now I do, but I would just be like, so how are you gonna. How are you gonna get us? What. What are you gonna do for us? And I would just quit talking and let Them talk. What are you gonna do for us? What are you gonna do for us? Oh, we're gonna write you really good content. Oh, okay.
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Thanks.
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We'll think about it. I would never. I would never respond to that person again. Right. But if, you know, I don't know. But, like, not that. Not, of course. Well, anyways, so, like, look, they need to demonstrate their knowledge to me. Okay? So another thing that I would ask maybe would be like, you know, I'd maybe say something like, oh, well, you know, how long. How long. How long did these take? Right? How long? All the stuff that you're gonna do. How long will that take? And what I would be listening for would be an answer that makes sense. Okay, so if they're like six months, like, how would you even know that? Okay, so here's, here's. Here's the thing. When you're in your first meeting with somebody, right, they probably don't know anything about you, right? They probably know, like, I don't know. They, like. Like when you're. When you're in your first meeting with somebody with an agency, they don't know anything about you. There's no possible way they could answer the question of how long will it take? Because they don't know anything about you. So if they're like, oh, six months. No, they're just. No, they're just saying things. That doesn't. No, it's extraordinarily unlikely that, like, no, that answer doesn't even make sense because, like, how would they know? They haven't done any, like, research on you or anything. They maybe, maybe know your website. Right? Knowing somebody's website is not enough to answer that question. Like, we can answer that question, but it takes weeks of research into their website and their competition. Okay? So. And even then, by the way, it's a guess. It's not like a specific answer for many reasons. So when you're at, like, well, how long will it take? And they're like, oh, it takes about six months. Based on what? No, based on no, no.
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And.
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And so somebody's gonna be like, no. So, okay, whatever. I would. But I would. Basically what you're doing is you're. You're listening to. See if the person sounds like they know what they're talking about. But I don't mean, like, I don't mean their manner of speaking. They know what they're talking about. I mean, the responses they're giving or the replies to your questions. Do they know what they're talking about? Okay. Because anybody can memorize a thing and sound like they know what they're talking about. So see if their answers, like, are logical based on the questions you asked. Oh, oh, it's gonna take six months. Well, why do you think it's gonna take six months? That, that follow up question should, should trip them up. Because if they say something like, well, it takes an average of six months. That person is just making. That person is just talking about random things. And that's not true. I've never told anyone.
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It's.
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It takes about six months on average. You want to know why? Because sometimes it takes like 24 months and sometimes it takes a week. Okay. Like, well, in the past it has taken a week. The game is a little different now, but it doesn't matter. Like there's in a initial meeting, okay. In a discovery call or whatever you want to call it. Right. I would never answer the question of how long will this take. My answer to that question would be something like, well, you know, if we decide to work together, we would have to do some research, like before we even start working together. We can answer that. We can answer all the questions you have about all the things that you need, but you're gonna pay me for weeks of work because that takes a long time to get that information. Right? So you can't. So anybody who gives you an oh, six months. No hard pass on that one. And another thing, I don't just want to give a list of questions for you to ask. Well, actually I don't mind giving a list of questions, but I don't want to give answers necessarily, because if I give answers, the liars are going to memorize those answers and then they're going to sound smart. Right. So if I were to give questions and answers. Just because you get the answer that I told you to look for doesn't mean the person knows what they're talking about. It means they memorized it. Right. Which is why then I would have to give you another list of follow up questions to see if they know what they're talking about or if they were just using memorization. Okay. Because a lot of people, when they're trying to get clients, will use scripts, which is just something that you've memorized. Right. That doesn't mean you understand the topic. It just means you memorized a couple sentences or whatever. So just because somebody has a great answer, that doesn't mean they understand it. So you have to ask follow up questions and you have to wonder, why did they give me that answer? Does that answer make sense? Six Months. They know. All they know is the name of my website and they know from that that it will take six months. No, this person doesn't know what they're talking about. Right. So that's just, that's just what I think. But never, never reveal how much you know because like your, your goal is not to impress them. Their job is to impress you. Okay, so, but by the way, feel free to ask like, oh, how. What are you gonna do for us? Oh, we're the top of the search engines. Oh, that's very interesting. How are you gonna do that? And then, you know, maybe, maybe they'll talk about authority. If they talk about authority, I'd probably keep talking to them because that's a big part of the answer. Right? Authority is built by creating backlinks. And so then I would ask, oh, that's very interesting. Can you tell me more about backlinks? And then just, you know, let them, let them talk. It's, it's their job to show that, to show you that they know what they're talking about. Okay. You don't need to come in there with all these like, fancy questions like, I'm gonna impress this guy or this lady, you know, I'm gonna impress this person and I'm gonna be like, hmm, well, if you were using a blog structure to build backlinks, what, numbers of OBLs, like, nobody would ask that question in a, in a. You know what I mean? Like that, that's. Resist the urge to do that. Alright? Just try not to do that. So, or actually just don't do that. Anyways, so the point, look, the point is you need to press them with questions to see if they know what they're talking about. Right. What are you going to do for us? We're going to get to the top of the search engines. Oh, cool. How are you going to do that? And then let them answer the question. Okay, let them answer the question. What are they talking about? Are they talking about content? Are they talking about site loading speed? Are they talking about authority? Are they. You can listen for replies and if they say something that you know is a thing, ask them more about it. If they say something that you know is not a thing, ask them more about that too. We're going to write you really good content. Oh, oh really? Can you. That's, that's very interesting. Can you, can you, can you talk a little bit more about how good content helps me get to the top of the search engines? Because, you know, quality of content is not a ranking factor. So like, see what they say. You know, they might demonstrate that they don't know what they're talking about. Right. Or maybe they, I don't know, misunderstood the question. Or maybe they're just giving you the safe answer because that's how most people think SEO works. I probably would not work with that person. But personally. Well, no, it doesn't matter. But there's, there's. I don't know. I don't just want to give you, like, a big list of questions, Right, because every case is different. But you need to. You need to consider your understanding of SEO and ask the other person which things or what, what things they're going to do for you. Ask them. Here's a fun question. Ask them how SEO works. All right, so somebody who understands SEO could answer that question in a half hour or in 30 seconds. Okay? Either of those, depending on how much context is necessary and how much detail is necessary. You guys have listened to me. You know, I can talk for a long time about how SEO works, but I could also answer that question in 30 seconds or probably fewer. Right? So ask them and, and, and listen to what they say. Right. It's not like, it's not like there's secret answers. And then if the person gives this exact specific answer, you're going to hire them because it doesn't work that way. And I'm. Well, I guess it could work that way, but I could give you a couple questions, but I wouldn't give you the answers because I don't want somebody to just know what to say and then they still don't understand SEO. Right. So I would ask them to walk you through the process. Like, how are they going to do whatever they're going to do? How are they going to do it? See if it makes sense. We're just going to start building you backlinks. Well, they're not going to check your site first and make sure that there's no problems before they start building backlinks. It probably wouldn't work with that person. We're just going to write you really good content. Well, that's it. You're not going to build backlinks at all? I probably, I might ask them, I might ask them, why do you think backlinks are not necessary? And then. But I probably wouldn't work with that person either. Right? Oh, we're going to. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what other answers people would have to those questions, but, you know, ask them to walk you through the process. What does it look like? How long, how long does the process take? Not how long does it take to get results. How long does the process take? Are they going to start building backlinks right away? Why? How many? How do they know that? Right. Why, why do they think that's the right choice? Sometimes that can be the right choice. How does, why does this specific person think that's the right choice for you? Okay, ask them what their strategy is. If they use the same strategy for everybody, that's probably a person that you want to avoid, right? Because, like, every website is different. And even though, for example, my agency follows, you know, roughly the same plan, in most cases it's unique and individualized for each client. It's not like we just put everybody through the same process. That wouldn't make sense. Some websites, for example, need a lot of on page changes before they start building backlinks. Other websites don't need so many. Some websites have penalties. Some websites have cannibalization. Some websites have other problems that need to be fixed. Right? Some websites actually do have content problems that need to be fixed. Some websites have a bad backlink profile. Some websites have a good backlink profile. Some take a long time before you can start building backlinks. Some. Why? Why, why are they doing the thing that they're doing? You need to figure out the reason. It can't just sound like a good plan. You have to understand why and you have to make them explain it to you. Because if they don't, then they're probably just, they're probably just repeating phrases that have been known to work in the past. Instead of actually giving you the specific information, help the website that you are trying to get to the top of the search engine rank. So I don't know. I know people are going to be like, I know people would prefer that. I just, just give me a big list of questions and answers. But I literally can't do that because that wouldn't, that actually wouldn't help you. That would take you one step closer, but it would create a whole bunch of other problems. So probably I'm not going to do that. But I've given you some questions and you've listened to Grumpy SEO Guy podcast and you probably understand how SEO works. And if you want, you can always hire me to go to the interview with you and ask questions for you. Like, I'm kind of joking, but not really. Like, but I don't know, people have hired me for some different things before. But if you, if you really want me to sit in an interview with you. I guess I would do that. It might actually be kind of fun. But anyways. And also, don't email me and ask what agencies I recommend. People do this from time to time. Grumpy SEO Guy, you sound really smart. What agencies would you recommend? Okay, first of all, we don't recommend our competition. Okay. Second of all, the reason we make the podcast is because there are no good agencies that are commercially available and easy to find. Okay. If there were, instead of having all these episodes about, you know, how to do SEO and how to build a private blog portfolio and all of these things, we would just make one episode and it would say, use such and use this agency. That's it. That's all you need to know. Right? And then it would seem like we have a bias or we have some agenda and we're just promoting this agency, and then people wouldn't believe what I say anymore. Oh, it's Grumpy SEO Guy. Oh, he. He's just trying to promote such and such business. Like, no, no, but anyways, I mean, I'm glad that you respect my opinion enough to ask, but also, those are the reasons we don't. And we actually have an episode on a similar topic. And I'll put a link. I'll put a link below. But like, one of the topics in that episode is why there's no such thing, or why there couldn't be a forum, for example, where only good SEO agencies post. Like, it's just. It's just not possible. And the reasons for that are explained in that episode. Anyways, I hope this was helpful. Let me know what questions you have about finding good agencies to work with, and I'll talk to you later.
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Thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe, and if you enjoy this podcast, please leave a review. It would really help the show out. I hope this episode was helpful. If you have any questions or want to suggest a subject for a future episode, you can contact me on Reddit. My username is Grumpy SEOguy. You can visit the Grumpy SEO Guy subreddit, or you can email me@hellorumpyseoguy.com if you email me, please either whitelist my email address or check your junk folders because I've been told that my replies are going into the junk folder and it's probably because we're talking about things like SEO and backlinks, and I think those words will classify an email as spam. And if you want to support the podcast because it's the best source of SEO information on the planet, and it's free. You can do so at the end. Patreon.com Grumpy SEO Guy and I will talk to you later. You're listening to Grumpy SEO Guy, the SEO podcast that doesn't waste your time with nonsense that doesn't work.
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Join us next Wednesday for another episode.