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Grumpy SEO Guy
This is Grumpy SEO Guy, Episode seven, the four Most Annoying things in the SEO Industry. You're listening to Grumpy SEO Guy, the SEO podcast that doesn't waste your time with nonsense that doesn't work. I'm the grumpy SEO Guy, and I'm sharing with you the strategies that have helped me successfully run my SEO agency for the last 14 years. In this podcast, I'll be sharing my knowledge and experience, discussing tips and strategies, and trying to help you cut through the confusion that permeates this industry. If you listen to this podcast, you will know more about SEO than not 99% of people on the planet. Ready? Let's get started. I'm the grumpy SEO guy. Let me tell you why I'm grumpy today. I'm grumpy today because the SEO industry is super annoying. And I'm gonna tell you why. But before we do that, my lawyer tells me that I have to say this right now. A quick disclaimer before we get started. Everything I say here is based on my experience and opinion from 14 years in the industry. I don't officially know how Google or any other search engines work. Everything I say here is hypothetical and based on my experience. This podcast does not constitute advice, or what worked for me may or may not work for you. Okay, back to the show. All right, this podcast is called Grumpy SEO Guy. I'm gonna be pretty grumpy today. But you know what? It's not gonna be a very long episode. Honestly, that last episode was pretty long, so I'm gonna make this one a little bit shorter. Don't worry. Okay, the four most annoying things in the SEO industry Thing. Number one, there's no barriers to entry. Okay, what does that mean? That means anybody who wants to can make a website and say, we're an SEO agency. No, you're not. But ultimately, there's nothing keeping you from doing it. Look, if you wanna be, like, a lawyer or something, you have to go to school, right? And then you have to pass the bar, and then you can be a lawyer. Now, that doesn't mean every lawyer is a good lawyer, but that's what you have to do to become a lawyer. All right? To become an SEO consultant, you don't have to do anything. You just have to tell people, I'm an SEO consultant, and then maybe they'll pay you. But you know what? That person probably doesn't know anything, so don't pay them. Seriously, though, it's annoying. Let me tell you something else that's related to this. Okay? I don't know why this is the case, but I have seen many times somebody who has their own business, let's say, for example, they are a consultant, not an SEO consultant, but a consultant who has a business on the Internet. Maybe they're a life coach, maybe they're a whatever, I don't know, but just some sort of consulting type person. Okay? And what these people will do after a couple years in business is they will offer a package. And you know what's in that package? It's an SEO package for how to SEO your life coaching business or the industry that they're in. And I see this all the time. And I'm like, first of all, first of all, this person who's offering this, they're not even, well, SEO'd themselves, okay? If they were, they would probably have enough business that they don't need to sell SEO courses. Okay? Number two, I guarantee you there's no helpful information in it because it was probably just a synthesis of a bunch of information that he read on SEO guru websites like content is king. Make sure that you always have high quality content posted on your website so that the search engines will see your high quality content and put you at the top. And if you listen to episode one, you know it doesn't work that way. But I see this all the time and it infuriates me because here I have been for the last decade, working hard to become good at SEO, to get a good reputation, to get awesome clients and deliver phenomenal results, and Joe Schmo, random life coach, offers some SEO consulting package. Okay, look, I honestly. Okay, I honestly don't even care what other people do, like, whatever, but being in the SEO industry, you get lumped in with that nonsense. Okay? Which brings me to the next point thing Number two, the SEO industry has a bad rap, okay? I don't even like telling people that I do SEO, okay? Because, like, do you know what happens? This is how it goes. Somebody asks what you do, and I say, oh, yeah, I own an SEO agency. And they're like, oh, is that like those people that email me 100 times a day telling me they can get me to the top of the search engines? Yeah. And then I feel compelled to be like, but look, those people suck. We don't do that. I've literally never once emailed anyone in my life and tried to like farm business that way. I've literally never done that. But that's what people think of because there are dozens, if not hundreds of people who do that? You know what's funny? I own an SEO agency, okay? All my websites rank wherever I want them to rank. And I mean my personal websites. Okay. But anyway, actually, that's a different topic that I might talk about later. Doing SEO on your own websites as opposed to on clients websites. All right, I'll put that in, like, the possible category. I might talk about that. Anyway, look, I own an SEO agency. I get those spam messages all the time, and they're always the same. It's always garbage. It's always like, first of all, English is terrible. Which, you know what's funny? I don't think the English is terrible because they're not native English speakers. Don't misunderstand. They're not native English speakers. Okay? Have you ever gotten those emails from, like, Nigerian princes that want to give you all this money? You know what I'm talking about? If you've never heard of this, wow, today must be your first day on the Internet. But if you've never heard of this, you get these emails and they're like, dear sir, I am a Nigerian prince. My country's bank owes me US$1 billion, but we cannot hold it in our bank. If you kindly let me use your bank and transfer the money there temporarily, I will let you keep 15 million of it. Or, you know, whatever. It's. Obviously, it's a scam, okay? But here's the thing. Okay? So. And I literally just learned this recently. I can't believe I didn't know this, but in my defense, I've spent a lot of time studying foreign languages. I enjoy foreign languages, and I understand that foreign language is difficult. And you know what? I make mistakes in other languages. I probably make mistakes in English too, but whatever. And so if somebody's speaking English to me and it's not flawless because it's not their native language. I understand. I really do. Okay. Anyway, the emails from these Nigerian princes, the reason the English isn't perfect, it's not because English isn't their first language, okay? The reason is because it's a filter for gullibility. If you will believe an email that comes in poorly written English offering to give you millions of dollars, what won't you believe? So it's a method for them to attract the most likely people anyway. I can't believe I didn't know that until recently. But, like, you know, you're getting an email from Nigeria. Yeah. Their English might not be perfect. No, no, no, no, no. That's not the reason. So getting back to my Point. I don't think the English is terrible because they're coming from foreign countries. And don't misunderstand, they are coming from foreign countries. The majority of those emails I get are from India and from the Philippines. And like I said on the hosting episode and other episodes, I have no problem with India, I have no problem with the Philippines. It's just, as I mentioned, there's a lot of spam in those countries. Okay. But I actually think the reason that the English in these emails is so bad is because they're filtering for gullibility. I actually think that's the case. So anyway, it's always the same kind of message. It's terrible English. And they always want to do like a free, I don't know, not all the time, but usually it's like a free analysis of blah, blah. What? Like whatever. It's garbage, you know. Dear sir or madam, we are an award winning SEO company. We offer for you, please, a free complimentary analysis of the website's traffic. Like garbage English. Right? And like you're. And it comes from like a Gmail address. Like your award winning SEO agency uses Gmail. Okay, that makes perfect sense. So I don't know. But you know, if you're dumb enough to fall for it, I guess, anyways, that's 99% of the SEO industry. Okay. I haven't even gotten to like the US and European based countries that are, that are scammers. I'm talking about like just. It's absolute garbage. And I guarantee you that like they're just emailing every email address they can find. They're probably using email addresses they haven't even confirmed yet. Because like, I'll make a website and I'll have an email address for it and I won't, like, I literally won't have it posted anywhere. Okay? So there's literally no way that anyone could ever know that's my email address for that website. And I will still get the same spam. And it's not just SEO spam, it's all sorts of nonsense spam. So I think they're probably just sending it to every possible email address and seeing who responds. I don't know, but I've gotten those same emails from different email addresses claiming to be different people. But it's like a cookie cutter email. They're all identical. So whatever. Anyways, that's what people think of when they think of SEO. Okay? I don't want to be lumped in with that. That's embarrassing. But you know, whatever. That's the thing. Anyway, so the industry has a bad rap. I don't like to tell people I do SEO because that's what they think of. Oh, you like those people? No, not like those people, but I guess like those people. Anyways. Okay, let's move away from the junk email for a moment. The SEO industry in America has a bad rap too. Do you know how many clients we have gotten that told us their previous SEO company didn't do anything? They didn't get any results, they took their money, and they don't even think they did anything? I feel like I'm always telling you this, but let me tell you again, if you're not at the top of the search engines, your SEO agency is wasting your time and wasting your money. The one caveat to that, of course, being if you just started working with them, obviously it takes a while, but in three to six months, if you don't have significant movement and or are at the top of the search engines, they're wasting your time and your money, okay? Unless you're in a super, super competitive industry, which you would know if that's the case, because your SEO agency would have told you and you would probably know. Nobody gets into a super competitive industry and gets far enough that they need SEO without getting the fact that it's super competitive. So let me say it again. If you're not at the top of the search engines, your SEO agency is wasting your time and wasting your money, okay? Do you know how many clients we've gotten? Like, you know, I really need SEO, but I'm really scared to work with anyone else because we worked at this other agency and they didn't do anything. And then we worked at this other agency and they didn't do anything. And then we worked at this other agency, and how are you any different? And I actually don't mind answering that question, but it's not really the topic of this episode. So anyway, I hear that all the time. All the time. And usually after they work with us for a bit, they're happy. But you know what? That's the stereotype, okay? SEO agencies are literally like used car salesmen, okay? I'm not saying every used car salesman is a scammer. I'm not saying every used car salesman is a liar, okay? But that's the stereotype. Why do you think that's the stereotype? The stereotype of SEO agencies is that they're garbage spammers who don't do anything. And let me ask you, why do you think that's the stereotype. Anyway, it's funny, I actually, on this topic, I've said it before and I'm gonna tell you again, a lot of SEO agencies, even the big ones, don't know how to do SEO. And I've also mentioned this before, and I'll tell you again now, a lot of our clients have been SEO agencies because most people do not know how to correctly build backlinks and give authority to the target website. My agency does. That's like 99% of what we do. But most SEO agencies don't know how to do it. I'm going to talk later in a different episode. I've had some meetings with some large SEO agencies. I've been at conferences with some big SEO agencies. I've had one on one meetings with the CEO of a large SEO and paid search agency. I'm not trying to sound too grumpy here, but I actually think that the majority of people in the SEO industry don't know how to do SEO. And I'm gonna do this in another episode, but I've been on interviews recently for SEO positions at a variety of companies. Let me say it like this. Approximately a third of them sort of understand how SEO works. Two thirds of them have literally no clue. And I'm talking, in some cases I was talking with SEO managers or SEO directors or like whatever, like high level SEO people in the, you know, every, like every company has different job descriptions, whatever. But I'm talking about like the people who run the SEO department. They're clueless. I'm sitting there literally in a video interview explaining to them how SEO works. And like in like a third of the cases I got like nods because the person was smart and they understand the purpose of authority and the importance of authority. And in like the other 2/3, they're just like, I could tell that I wasn't giving the PC answer. So I joke. I'm going to tell you how these interviews went. I'm going to tell you what questions they asked me. I'm going to tell you, I might even tell you some of the answers I gave. But let me put it like this. When I'm in an interview for an SEO role, sometimes I will ask them if they want the PC answer or if they want the correct answer. And I think it's funny because I can immediately tell if the person is on the same page as me or not. And sometimes I'll give both answers, but the PC answer is usually something along the lines of, well, good content is preferred by the search engine. So in order to rank a website. You know what? That's a bunch of nonsense. Let me. I don't even feel I'm, like, uncomfortable saying that right now, because that's literally the wrong answer. Okay, let me give an example. I was in an interview. This is a preview. Okay? I was in an interview, and the situation that they described to me was, let's say we have a client who has a landing page that's not ranking where we want it to. What changes would you make to the content to get it higher in the search engine? And I said, look, I don't mean to be rude, but I want to stop this before we go any further. That's not the right question. I said, if you have a landing page that's not ranking where you want it to be, there are no changes you can make to the content unless you have a penalty related to the content that will substantially change its position. I said, if you have a website or a webpage that's not ranking where you want it to, the problem is you don't have sufficient authority relative to the competition. So the question needs to be, how would we build the. Well, the question is, how would we get them to the top of the search engine? The secondary question is, how would we build the authority? And the answer to that question is, what I'm going to give you right now. And then we talked about it for a bit, and that interview went very, very well. In fact, a couple interviews later, I was given a job offer by the. By the founder of that company. So super awesome experience. I didn't take the job, but that's how an SEO interview should go. But I've also had some where I start talking about authority, and they're just like, yeah, not the right answer. And I'm like, well, I know an agency who doesn't have any clients at the top of the search engines. So I didn't actually say that, but I wanted to anyways. It's funny, but I'm stop talking about that now. I'm going to do an episode on SEO interviews and the questions they ask, because I think that would be very useful. Anyways, the industry has a bad rep. Most SEO companies are scammers. Most SEO consultants are scammers. And it doesn't matter how big they are, it doesn't matter how much they charge. It doesn't matter what city they're in. I've been in the offices of SEO agencies that were just like, not good SEO agencies. Like, they have beautiful offices, a lot of fun stuff. Like, whatever you would imagine a liberal technology company to look like. That's what it looked like. Okay, super cool place. I would have loved to work there, but. But, my gosh, they did not understand how SEO works. And you know what? That's probably why they had high client turnover. Because as I've mentioned, when your clients are at the top of the search engines, they will not leave. Okay? They will never quit. They will never cancel their contract. Why would they? Again, the only exception, there's only two times that's not the case. The first time is if they're not getting a positive ROI for whatever reason. Maybe just there's weird industry quirks, you know, Maybe you somehow pick the wrong keywords or something. It does happen. We're gonna talk about keyword selection in a later episod. Maybe that's the problem. Or as I mentioned in another episode, maybe they sold their company and the new owner didn't want to stay with you as an SEO provider. That happens. But you know what? When they're at the top of the search engine and they're making a ton of money from all the traffic, they're never gonna leave. Why would they ever leave? Why? I wouldn't. That sounds awesome. Like, I don't know, man. But anyway, low turnover is a very good sign of a good SEO agency. But good luck getting that information out of them. Anyways, thing number three, that annoys me about the SEO industry misinformation. Most people, and when I say most people, I'm including people who are known to be SEO gurus. Why? This is always some version of content is king. I think you guys know by now that content is not king. If you want, you can go listen to episode one, or I can summarize it for you. Content is not king. Because the search engines cannot determine the relevancy of a website based on its content. Because of that, they have to use authority instead of content. Authority comes from backlinks from authoritative websites. The way to get a website to the top of the search engine is by building its authority by giving it backlinks from other authoritative websites. If content were king, backlinks wouldn't even be an issue. Authority wouldn't even be an issue. You wouldn't even need it. Because the search engines could tell from looking at the content whether or not it was relevant to the searcher's question. Now, I'm not saying that that won't be the case in the future. That'd be pretty cool. That would be some pretty massive advances in search engine algorithm. Calculations. But like, it doesn't work that way now. And basically what they're doing is they're using a popularity algorithm instead. The theory being that the more authority a website has, the more people like it and the better it must be. If you want an analogy that's kind of offensive to people like me, who weren't very popular in high school, who are the coolest kids in high school? The popular kids. Who are the most popular kids? The kids with the most friends. But it wasn't just that you had to be friends with the other cool kids. So if the cool kids like you, you're popular. If the cool kids don't like you, you're not popular. If authoritative websites link to you, you're at the top of the search engine. If authoritative websites don't link to you, you're at the bottom of the search engine. If it's literally the same. And ultimately I don't blame the search engines for doing it that way because I can't think of a better way to do it. But I'm just saying that's the way it works. Content doesn't have any bearing on your rank whatsoever, unless you have a content related penalty, in which case it's going to keep you from the top no matter what you do. Go listen to episode two if you want to learn how to fix that. Okay, Let me tell you another one that I hear all the time. SEO, as you know, is a long process, it is a continual process and it is an ongoing process, okay? In nearly every case, my agency provides service to clients in the form of monthly contracts, okay? Because it doesn't make sense to do like one month of SEO that wouldn't even do anything, okay? Now the one exception to that is if I'm being hired as a consultant, then it's an hourly fee or a one time fee, whatever. But that's not what I'm talking about, okay? So anyway, people don't know that. And this belief is so entrenched in the industry that at least half of the clients that I've talked to before they became clients, which I guess makes them prospects if you want to use the sales. Half of the prospects that I've talked to think that they're gonna pay us a one time fee and be done. They think we're gonna log into their website, we're gonna make some changes, and then we did SEO and everything is done. And I think the reason is because, for example, you have WordPress plugins for SEO. I'm not gonna name them, but there's a couple that are good. I use them. They're pretty decent. Okay, I'm sure you're thinking of the one that everybody's thinking of. It's fine. You should use it. It will help you make sure that your on page content is the way it should be. Okay, but that's not doing SEO. And that plugin alone will not really have any effect on your ranking at all. Let me quantify what I mean by this. There are no cases where your site is not ranking. Then you install the plugin and make the changes and then your site is at the top of the search engines. So what people do is they think, oh, we're gonna hire an SEO agency. And you know what they're gonna do? They're gonna come in and they're gonna like install a secret plugin and they're gonna like keywords into that plugin and then we're at the top of the search engines. No, it's not how it's going to work. If we work together, we're going to make sure that your site looks good and then we're going to start building backlinks to you from authoritative websites and then you're going to be at the top of the search engine. That's how it works. And you're going to keep paying us every month because it takes our time and our money, not to mention the time and money that we spent, to even have these websites available in the first place for you to use to get you to the top of the search engine. That's how it works. Oh, you mean it's a monthly payment? Oh, I don't know if I want to do that. Okay, well, there's not another way to do it. So go talk to some other agencies, explore all your options, maybe even work with them. But when they don't work, please call us back. And you know what they do? Oh, yeah, this other agency, they were really cheap and yeah. Anyway, they didn't do anything. And you know what else happens sometimes? Sometimes those agencies actually do build backlinks. Surprisingly. Right. But they build terrible quality backlinks which will like, penalize the client. I've seen it happen before. So we have to undo their bad work and then we can start doing the right work. It's very difficult. And look, I don't even blame people for not knowing this. Okay? I wouldn't even know this if I wasn't in the industry for over a decade. Okay. But like, this is just the kind of misinformation that's so pervasive in the industry that like, it's just common knowledge and it's wrong. Common knowledge, but it's common knowledge. Like content is king. SEO is a one time thing. WordPress plugins. I'm doing SEO. Oof, no you're not. And I don't know, it's frustrating. That's actually part of what makes SEO sales really hard. And we'll talk about this on the sales episode too. But imagine a prospect wants something, but what they think they want is wrong. So you can't just sell them the thing they want. You have to educate them first. But you have to educate them in a way that doesn't deflate their sense of self esteem. Because everybody thinks they know things, right? Everybody has googled a little bit about SEO. Everybody knows that content is king and everybody knows that there's WordPress plugins, right? But like, so then when they're in a meeting with you and you're like explaining to them that that is like 0.1% of SEO and like literally isn't gonna do anything, they're like, it can be a touchy subject because people don't like to be told that they're wrong, especially when they've spent time, you know, understanding things on their own. But it's not their fault. Like honestly, I mean, if I just went out and googled, how do I rank a website? Or like, whatever, that's probably what I would think too. And I would be so smug about it and I would think that I'm so smart and I'm gonna get some great SEO results because I googled this thing and I read this blog and I'm super smart now and I'm ready to, and I'm ready to make a million dollars on the Internet. Like, sorry, bro, not gonna happen. I mean, you could make a million dollars on the Internet, but not ranking with content and using WordPress plugins, like, that's not gonna happen. Anyway, thing number four, I guess if you can't tell from listening to me, I kind of have a huge ego when it comes to SEO. Like actually, I hope I don't come off that way. Like, honestly, grumpy SEO guy is supposed to be funny, but I'm also trying to share my knowledge, okay? Because there is a lot of bad information out there and I don't want confusion in the industry. And the thing that I hate the most, out of all of these things that I've talked about, I hate this one the most, okay? There are so many SEO agencies out there and when they explain how they do what they do. They call it secret sauce. That is the most annoying thing. Do you want to know what secret sauce means? It means a couple things. First of all, it means I want you to feel like we're better than you because we have secret knowledge that you don't. Okay, screw that. By the way, if you listen to this podcast, you'll have more knowledge than any of these secret sauce scammers do. Okay, Number two, it means. It probably means we're gonna outsource our link building to somebody, like, grumpy SEO guy too. Honestly. Because, like, there's no secret sauce. But if there was secret sauce in the SEO industry, it would literally be building authority by getting backlinks from authoritative websites, because that's the only thing that even really works to make a difference in your ranking. Okay, so I don't know, but it's literally just like a gross form of tribalism. It's like, you know what exists. Secret knowledge. Do you know who has that secret knowledge? We do. Do you know who doesn't have that secret knowledge? All of you. Therefore, you have to pay us your money and we'll give you our secret sauce, and you'll get to the top of the search engines. Except you won't, because, like, literally every SEO agency I've seen that talks about secret sauce is, like, run by a scammer. So I'm not. Look, don't quote me on that. But there's. I would say, look, if you wanna, like, pass the filter of gullibility, okay, ignore any agency that mentions secret sauce on their website, okay? Because even if it's true, okay, even if they're a good SEO agency, why would they phrase it like that? Like, why would they not be transparent about what they're doing? What are they keeping from you? Okay, anytime you see secret sauce, run. It's like I said before, any SEO agency who tells you who their clients are without an NDA in place, run. Don't do any business with these untrustworthy people. Okay, look, I'm gonna speak more about this later, but think about it. If you were their client, okay, would you want them to be telling other people that you're their client? The SEO industry, the real SEO industry, is very secretive. If you're working with an SEO agency and that SEO agency tells everyone, hey, we're working with so and so client, well, what do you think is going to happen when your competition finds out who your SEO agency is? Conflict of interest much? Yeah, that's what I thought. So, look, if you're talking to an SEO agency and they're showing you case studies, and the client's name is plastered all over those case studies. I would probably have second thoughts about working with them, because there's a very good chance that that client doesn't even know that their name is being used in these case studies. And if they're going to reveal that client's data, how do you know they're not going to reveal your data? Again, you cannot trust an agency that will do this. Now, it's possible the client gave them permission, but probably not. Let me put it like this. There was a time that in order to help advertise my agency, I wanted to list some of the clients we had worked with. So I asked them. These are clients that had been with us for years and had been at the top of the search engines for years, very happy, very successful. Okay? Every single one of them said, no, we cannot put their name on our website. I totally get it. I mean, I was a little. I was a little annoyed because I actually think that would have helped, but I totally get it. So the only way I will ever reveal our clients is if somebody signs an NDA. Like, I will not budge on this, because you know what? I wouldn't want somebody to reveal me, so I'm not going to reveal them. So on this topic, though, looking at case studies for any SEO agency that you're considering hiring is important. Okay? You need to do it. But there's a right and wrong way to do it. And I'm gonna talk about this in another episode, but the short version is that they should make you sign an NDA, and if they don't, don't trust them. Okay? I'm not saying they can't have case studies visible on their website. They can, but they should not reveal to clients. And perhaps most importantly, the case studies must be verified by a third party, because anyone can say they got any results in the world. Okay? But if a third party has verified it, then that will say, yes, this website actually was down here. And then they worked with us, and then they were actually at the top of the search engines. Therefore, we have proof that we actually got them to the top of the search engines. We'll talk more about this later, though. Another thing along these lines, I can almost guarantee you that anybody who lists the Big Five on their website as clients is lying. Okay, look, I don't know why this is a thing, but I've seen a lot of SEO consultants, and they list the Big Five on their webpage as clients. I even saw one guy who listed Google as a client. Okay, Google, like, just now. Hang on for a second. Not only is Google the most popular search engine on the planet, but they literally make the rules for how Google works. Okay? Google doesn't need to hire anybody to do SEO for them. If Google wanted to rank a website or their own website, all they would have to do is write a couple lines of code, and they could put it wherever they wanted to. You think they need to hire somebody to do, like, why would they even need that? Like, what keywords did somebody outrank Google for? Did somebody outrank them for Google? Come on. You don't have Google as a client. Get out of here. But yet here this guy was with Google on his website as an SEO client. What a liar. Anyway, but you know what? Like, imagine some person who doesn't know anything about SEO, and they're just. They're looking for an SEO agency, and they see this guy, and he says that one of his clients was Google, and you don't know anything about SEO, and you think, well, you know, I really want to find a good SEO agency. And, well, oh, this guy says he works with Google. Yeah, you know, I search for things on Google. Oh, yeah, this guy must be pretty good if Google is his client. Okay, I think I'll work with him. Wrong. That guy is a liar. He didn't have Google as a client. This guy is being dishonest with you before you even start working with him. Come on. But you know what? Like, normal people don't know this, because why would anyone ever lie about their clients? Oh, I don't know. Like, come on. Nobody had Google as an SEO client. Oh, my gosh. Anyways, secret sauce is, like, literally like. Saying secret sauce on your website is literally like sending someone an email with bad English saying that you're Nigerian royalty and you want to give them a million doll. Just stop. Just don't do it. Just stop doing it. And don't engage with anybody who even mentions it on their website. Okay, well, I did say this episode was gonna be shorter, and I'm trying not to be any grumpier than I have to, so I'm gonna end this one now. But if you have any questions about anything, email me if you have any complaints about the SEO industry. I would love to know what you think. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe. I hope this episode was helpful. And if you have any questions or if there's anything that you want me to talk about on a future episode, you can email me@hellorumpyseoguy.com and I'll talk to you later. You're listening to Grumpy SEO Guy, the SEO podcast that doesn't waste your time with nonsense that doesn't work. Join us next Wednesday when we talk about reputation management and how to manage a reputation management campaign.