It’s all glitter, no gold.

Summary

Podcast Summary: Hacking Humans – "It’s All Glitter, No Gold"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Hacking Humans
• Host/Author: N2K Networks
• Description: Deception, influence, and social engineering in the world of cybercrime.
• Episode: It’s All Glitter, No Gold
• Release Date: July 17, 2025

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1. Introduction and Personal Anecdotes

The episode begins with the hosts Dave Buettner, Joe Kerrigan, and Maria Vermazes sharing personal stories and playful interactions. Maria recounts her attempt to create a "honey pot" by posting about seeking baseball tickets on Facebook to attract scammers. Despite her efforts, the scammer response was minimal:

[01:03] Maria Vermazes: "I tried as hard as I could to get these scammers to come out of the woodwork, and they did not."

This segment is peppered with light-hearted banter, including Maria describing a clever Rickroll orchestrated by her son:

[02:17] Maria Vermazes: "But he got me again with it."

The hosts also delve into amusing discussions about vanity license plates and the challenges of obtaining personalized tags, highlighting the subtle vulnerabilities in everyday scenarios.

2. Celebrity Impersonation Scams

A significant portion of the episode focuses on a disturbing trend of impersonating celebrities to conduct large-scale scams. Maria references an article from the Hollywood Reporter by Rebecca Keegan, which details a case involving the impersonation of famous actors like Keanu Reeves and Kevin Costner:

[11:53] Maria Vermazes: "The headline of this is this is not Keanu Inside the Billion Dollar Celebrity Impersonation Bitcoin Scam."

Maria explains how a 73-year-old woman named Margaret was deceived into making substantial Bitcoin deposits believing she was interacting with Kevin Costner. The discussion highlights the emotional and financial toll on both the victims and the celebrities whose likenesses are exploited:

[13:15] Dave Buettner: "I mean, they’re human beings. Can you imagine a scam being done in your name that, you know, you obviously don’t want to happen, and they’re just besmirching your good name."

Further, the hosts discuss legislative efforts such as the proposed "No Fakes Act," which seeks to protect artists' likenesses from unauthorized AI-generated deepfakes. They debate its effectiveness and potential scope:

[15:31] Maria Vermazes: "But this also has applications in this case here, where people who are famous are getting impersonated."

3. FTC’s Cancel Subscription Rule Blocked

Dave Buettner expresses frustration over the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) blocking the "Click to Cancel" rule, which aimed to simplify the process of canceling subscriptions. Originally set to take effect on July 14, the rule was vacated by the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals due to procedural deficiencies:

[21:14] Dave Buettner: "The new click to cancel rule from the FTC, which was meant to make cancelling subscriptions as easy as signing up, has been blocked by a federal appeal court just days before it was set to take effect."

The hosts discuss the implications for consumers, emphasizing how the lack of such regulations perpetuates the ease with which companies can enroll consumers in unwanted subscriptions:

[22:11] Joe Kerrigan: "It really is a burden, Joe. It is."

They explore potential workarounds, such as using temporary credit card numbers, but acknowledge that these solutions are cumbersome and not user-friendly:

[23:19] Maria Vermazes: "If you have a credit card that will let you make like token credit card numbers, like temporary credit card numbers to sign up for something, do that."

4. Scams Using License Plate Information

The episode delves into a new scam method involving the use of personalized license plate information. Joe Kerrigan shares a Reddit scam post where a scammer sends a threatening message accompanied by an image of the victim’s car with an accurate license plate:

[30:25] Joe Kerrigan: "The image is of a car. In this case, it's a Kia, and it's parked in front of a sign that says triple X Girls Strip Club xxx."

The hosts analyze how easily accessible license plate data can be exploited by scammers to create convincing and personalized threats:

[31:24] Joe Kerrigan: "They're using license plate data, which is readily accessible, and any of us can go out and buy very cheaply a database of license plates."

Maria suggests practical measures to protect oneself, such as restricting Facebook friend requests to friends of friends:

[20:59] Maria Vermazes: "I think I have my Facebook so locked down that I don't think anybody can send a friend request unless they're a friend of a friend."

5. Catch of the Day: Diamond and Gold Scam

Maria introduces the "Catch of the Day," highlighting an email scam that promises the claimant ownership of vast quantities of diamonds and gold. The scam email is crafted in Arabic and attempts to entice the recipient with the allure of wealth:

[39:44] Joe Kerrigan: "It says, hello and good morning. My name is Ms. Lia. Please I will like you to help me claim and invest 30 kg of diamonds and 600 kg of pure gold..."

The hosts engage in a lighthearted debate about the actual value of the proposed scam's offerings, utilizing AI tools like ChatGPT to assess the plausibility:

[41:03] Dave Buettner: "Oh, that's going to depend on the day, wouldn't it?"

Using ChatGPT, Joe reveals that 30 kg of gem-quality diamonds could be valued at approximately $750 million, vastly surpassing the value of 600 kg of gold:

[42:42] Maria Vermazes: "I was wrong again."

This segment underscores the manipulative tactics scammers use, combining impressive figures with personalized threats to coerce victims into compliance.

6. Additional Anecdotes and Personal Stories

Throughout the episode, the hosts intersperse technical discussions with personal anecdotes, adding a relatable and human element to the conversation. Stories about defective cars, neighborhood experiences, and family interactions provide a humorous backdrop to the serious topics of scams and cybersecurity.

For instance, Dave shares his experiences with his damaged Toyota Corolla and the challenges of maintaining a clean vehicle:

[38:59] Dave Buettner: "I had a Corolla. All right, well, we will not have a link to that in the show notes because there's no link to be had."

These personal stories serve to illustrate the everyday vulnerabilities and the importance of being vigilant against social engineering tactics.

7. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up with the hosts reiterating the importance of awareness and proactive measures in combating social engineering and cyber scams. They emphasize the need for continued legislative efforts and personal diligence to protect against evolving threats.

[45:27] Joe Kerrigan: "Thanks for listening."

The hosts encourage listeners to participate in their annual audience survey and stay tuned for future episodes that delve deeper into the intricacies of human-based cyber exploitation.

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Notable Quotes:

• Maria Vermazes [01:03]: "I tried as hard as I could to get these scammers to come out of the woodwork, and they did not."
• Dave Buettner [13:15]: "I mean, they’re human beings. Can you imagine a scam being done in your name that, you know, you obviously don’t want to happen, and they’re just besmirching your good name."
• Maria Vermazes [22:12]: "Maria, it's your turn. What do you got for us this week?"
• Joe Kerrigan [42:53]: "Seeing this could work with somebody, right. The message is vague. It says, it would be a shame if it was sent to you know who."
• Dave Buettner [21:14]: "The new click to cancel rule from the FTC, which was meant to make cancelling subscriptions as easy as signing up, has been blocked by a federal appeal court just days before it was set to take effect."

---

Conclusion:

In "It's All Glitter, No Gold," Hacking Humans provides a compelling exploration of the latest strategies in social engineering and cyber scams. Through engaging discussions, personal stories, and expert analysis, the hosts shed light on the intricate ways scammers exploit trust and technology. The episode serves as both an informative and entertaining guide for listeners looking to understand and defend against the evolving landscape of cybercrime.

Transcript

[Dave Buettner]

You're listening to the Cyberwire Network, powered by N2K.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Hello, everyone, and welcome to N2K, CyberWire's hacking humans podcast, where each week we look behind the social engineering scams, phishing schemes, and criminal exploits that are making headlines and taking a heavy toll on organizations around the world. I'm Dave Buettner and joining me is Joe Kerrigan. Hey there, Joe.

[Maria Vermazes]

Hi. Dav.

[Joe Kerrigan]

N2K colleague and host of the T minus Space Daily podcast, Maria Vermazes. Maria.

[Dave Buettner]

Hi, Dave. And hi, Joe.

[Joe Kerrigan]

We've got some good stories to share this week. Let's jump right in here. We're gonna start off with some follow up. Joe, you wanna do the honors?

[Maria Vermazes]

Yeah. So last week I teased that I was going to put a link out on Facebook or post on Facebook a public post saying that I was looking for some baseball tickets.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Oh, yeah. You know what? I realized after we finished the show that we never swung back around to that.

[Maria Vermazes]

We didn't.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Buettner]

Okay.

[Maria Vermazes]

I got no traction on that. Believe it or not. I mean, the scammers must go, oh, that's Joe Kerrigan from Hacking Humans. We're not. We're not falling for that, Joe.

[Dave Buettner]

The honey pot. Don't do it.

[Maria Vermazes]

Yeah, it's a honey pot. Right? I will say this super listener, Chad, got it right out of the gate, knew exactly what I was doing, commented. This will bring the scammers out.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Oh, okay. All right.

[Maria Vermazes]

And another Tammy said, I got some baseball tickets to my son's little league game if you want to go.

[Joe Kerrigan]

All right.

[Maria Vermazes]

So, yeah, nothing happened with me. I tried as hard as I could to get these scammers to come out of the woodwork, and they did not. They disappointed me, Dave.

[Joe Kerrigan]

They did not take the bait.

[Maria Vermazes]

Right.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Okay.

[Dave Buettner]

Also last week, I maybe need different bait.

[Maria Vermazes]

Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I should go with concert tickets. Hey, I'm looking for Taylor Swift tickets.

[Dave Buettner]

There you go.

[Maria Vermazes]

Everybody who knows me knows that I am not interested in going to a Taylor Swift concert.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Right.

[Dave Buettner]

Then everyone's gonna comment. Joe, have you been hacked?

[Maria Vermazes]

Right, yeah.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Oh, my God. Joe's de.

[Maria Vermazes]

He said he'd go see Taylor Swift. Over his dead body. Must have happened. Yeah, No, I don't know what I'm gonna do. Maybe I'll try something else. I don't know. I'm kind of tired of putting myself out there. But for the scammers.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Fair enough.

[Dave Buettner]

Okay. All right.

[Maria Vermazes]

Also, I mentioned last week that my son is excellent at Rickrolling people, and he got me over the weekend after we Recorded this with a 4th of July Rick roll. Oh, 4th of July. It was like a firework. And the. Putting a can over top of a large firecracker. He's put. And then he's like, no, nothing happened. Nothing happened, nothing happened. And then he walks up to the can and of course you're watching this like, oh, no, no, no, don't do that, don't do that. And then he picks the can up and it's Rick Astley in the can. Rick rolling you.

[Joe Kerrigan]

And I was like.

[Maria Vermazes]

And I was like, not even mad. That was pretty good.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Well played.

[Maria Vermazes]

Well played, son.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Well played.

[Maria Vermazes]

But he got me again with it.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, I hate those things. I fall for the one. The ones that I hate the most because as I've pointed out here many times, I have a hair trigger startle reflex. And so it's the one where like, they're like, turn up the volume.

[Maria Vermazes]

Oh, yeah, yeah, volume up. That's always volume.

[Joe Kerrigan]

A couple of little, like ducks swimming in a pond or something.

[Maria Vermazes]

That's the mute button for me.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah. And I lean in and then some big scary face jumps up and screams. And I. And I, of course, am now dangling from the ceiling by my fingertips.

[Maria Vermazes]

Right. Need to go change your pants.

[Dave Buettner]

Y. I think there's a generation of us who grew up with that and now we know. I don't know, want to get too gross on the show. But those of us who were burned by goat, sea and the like, maybe we cut this part out.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Wow, you went with a nuclear option, didn't you, there, Maria?

[Maria Vermazes]

Well, honestly, I was thinking maybe the little maze with the zombie f or the. It's not zombies from Exorcist.

[Dave Buettner]

Honestly, I think I was like a freshman in high school when I was exposed to that at first, which is too young, but you learn.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah. Little Maria learned a lesson that day.

[Dave Buettner]

Oh, did she ever? Did she ever.

[Joe Kerrigan]

I had a neighbor who.

[Maria Vermazes]

Don't Google that, by the way.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Please don't.

[Maria Vermazes]

You will regret it.

[Joe Kerrigan]

I had a neighbor who, honest to God, had the license plate goatsy on Maryland. License plate goatsy.

[Maria Vermazes]

You know, I had a friend who.

[Dave Buettner]

How did that get past the.

[Joe Kerrigan]

The.

[Dave Buettner]

Oh, you know what?

[Joe Kerrigan]

I want to know. I don't want to know.

[Dave Buettner]

You know what? I don't want to know.

[Maria Vermazes]

I had. I've seen 2. Heard two stories about this one that didn't get by. It was a friend of mine who played high school football and his Jersey number was 69. And they would not listen.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Was he a lineman?

[Maria Vermazes]

I think so.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Of course he Was.

[Maria Vermazes]

I don't know what he did, but they. He wanted something on. On his plate that commemorated that. And the state said, no, can't. Can't do that. And then I saw a. Somebody driving with a license plate that said karma spelled with three Ks. And I was wondering how that got through the censors.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, that's bad.

[Maria Vermazes]

Cause they do censor the license plates here in Maryland.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah. But I wonder, to what degree is the censorship complaint driven? Right, right. Cause I know they will revoke a license plate if they get a complaint about it.

[Maria Vermazes]

Really?

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, yeah. Or so I've heard.

[Maria Vermazes]

So I'm gonna find out who has Kapla and complain about that. And then they're not gonna go out and get it.

[Dave Buettner]

Cause you want it.

[Maria Vermazes]

I want it. Right.

[Dave Buettner]

For years I wanted to get a TARDIS license plate, vanity plate and mass, like with a blue car tardis. But then somebody got to it before me. I was really mad.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Gotcha. Gotcha.

[Maria Vermazes]

I have an idea for a vanity tag, but I'm not going to tell anybody what it is until I. Until I actually have it.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Okay.

[Dave Buettner]

Is it chicken related?

[Maria Vermazes]

No, it is not.

[Dave Buettner]

Oh, okay.

[Maria Vermazes]

But we should give you a chicken update.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Okay.

[Maria Vermazes]

The chickens are in the coop. They're outside.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Oh, congratulations.

[Maria Vermazes]

And I have. I have some interesting things that we've learned about the chickens, about chickens in general.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah.

[Maria Vermazes]

Apparently sunset is like the power button for chickens. They just shut down. They just. I mean, if they're outside and it gets dark, they just sit down and go to sleep. That's it.

[Dave Buettner]

Is this a bird thing? Cause that's what. When people put like the sheet over canary cage. My grandmother used to do that with her canaries.

[Maria Vermazes]

My daughter was doing a presentation at work and she brought a couple of the chickens in because she's actually. They had like these all the show and tell day at work. Yeah, show and tell day at work.

[Dave Buettner]

And she's like, so much chicken lore on this show.

[Maria Vermazes]

I'm going to be automating my chicken coop.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah.

[Maria Vermazes]

And you know, she works in the same field as I do, but she does industrial control systems.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Okay.

[Maria Vermazes]

So she's like, well, I know how to do this. I can make an industrial control system that will automate everything in my chicken coop.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Right.

[Maria Vermazes]

And that's what she's going to do.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Okay.

[Dave Buettner]

Okay. Honestly, that's awesome.

[Maria Vermazes]

It is awesome.

[Dave Buettner]

I love that.

[Maria Vermazes]

I can't wait to see how it comes out.

[Dave Buettner]

Yeah.

[Maria Vermazes]

Yeah. So, you know, she and I have had many discussions about design. Many design discussions. One where she has gotten angry at me because I wrote code on an Arduino for something that could have just been done with a wire and that really irritated her.

[Dave Buettner]

You've over engineered it, dad.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, overthinking something.

[Maria Vermazes]

The guy tried to change the light socket because he thought the light socket was going bad. He just needed a new light bulb. Yeah, I literally did that.

[Dave Buettner]

Yep. I have stopped my husband from doing that. He's probably hating that I've mentioned that.

[Maria Vermazes]

But have you tried a new light bulb first?

[Joe Kerrigan]

Have you tried a new light bulb? Poor suffering Lisa.

[Maria Vermazes]

Yes. She said, I think the light bulb's going bad. I'm like, no, that's the socket. We gotta change the socket. And she's like, okay, whatever.

[Dave Buettner]

The circuit needs to go, right? Yeah, the whole circuit. You just gotta start. Get the Romex out. Just start over.

[Maria Vermazes]

I change the socket.

[Dave Buettner]

Finally.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah. Two weeks later, Joe has gone through the certified electrician class. And.

[Dave Buettner]

I'm just a journeyman, but, you know, this is where you start.

[Maria Vermazes]

Yeah, I'm moonlighting now.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah.

[Maria Vermazes]

Making money in my spare time.

[Joe Kerrigan]

All right, let's get to the rest of our right.

[Maria Vermazes]

Yeah. So feed the fan wiki. You know, Evaldis writes in writing about my belly aching from. I think it was the July 3 episode. In fact, you know it is. He says, he says that here. Greetings from Lithuania. If all this is from Lithuania, thank you for listening. On the July 3 episode, Dave mentioned getting. This was actually me that mentioned getting a legitimate Vanguard email from. With an unfamiliar domain. I'd like to share an insight. Companies often use alternative domains for marketing emails because these tend to get reported as spam. It's the way to keep their. Their main domain safe from reputation damage or blacklisting. So in a way, reporting it as spam is exactly how the system is expected to work. And Joe did the right thing. Of course, sometimes companies get too comfortable with these alternative domains to start using them for more important emails, which is what I think is happening here. Thought your listeners might find this nuance interesting. Well, I certainly do. Thank you, Evaldis, for writing in. I would agree that's probably exactly what's going on here.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah. Did I ever tell you about the. I had a neighbor when I was a little kid who was a Lithuanian supermodel.

[Maria Vermazes]

No. What was it, a male?

[Joe Kerrigan]

No, it's a woman. So I grew up in a middle class suburban household and down the street was a Lithuanian family and they had two kids and Daiva and Darius. And Daiva I think was maybe two years older. Than me and Darius was a year younger. So we would go down and play and, you know, climb their trees. And I remember they had a plum tree in their front yard. And the plums would, you know, delicious.

[Maria Vermazes]

Oh, you could eat them.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, yeah. And they had a. It was a great climbing tree also. But they had a pool, so we would go and swim in their pool and you know, all that kind of stuff. But you know, their parents were first generation immigrants, so, you know, the little nerdy didn't have all the right clothes, didn't have all the right things, you know, all that kind of stuff. So they got a little, you know, heat in school for those kinds of things. But I always had a good time with them and they were good neighbors. So time passes. I am now a college student and I am sitting in the dining hall and there is some magazine like you know, College Monthly or, you know, one of those things they give away at the dining hall. And on the COVID of the dining hall is this drop dead gorgeous woman. That's my neighbor.

[Maria Vermazes]

Was it Daiva?

[Joe Kerrigan]

It was Daiva. And I'm saying to the table full of also college age guys, oh my gosh, it's my neighbor Daiva. I used to swim in her pool. And they're all like, nah, get out of here.

[Maria Vermazes]

Come on.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, uh huh, sure thing.

[Maria Vermazes]

Sure.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Like, no, no, that's Daiva. She grow up to be a suit, you know. Yeah.

[Maria Vermazes]

So that's awesome.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah. Much later I reconnected with Daiva on Facebook and I shared that story and she. I thought it was very funny.

[Maria Vermazes]

Very funny. Excellent.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Strikingly beautiful woman. And now a word from our sponsor, Threat Locker, the powerful zero trust enterprise solution that stops ransomware in its tracks. Allowlisting is a deny by default software that makes application control simple and fast. Ring Fencing is an application containment strategy, ensuring apps can only access the files, registry keys, network resources, and other applications they truly need to function. Shut out cybercriminals with world class endpoint protection from Threat Locker. Let's get to our stories. Joe, why don't you start things off.

[Maria Vermazes]

For us, Dave, My story comes from the Hollywood Reporter and I should tell you who it will be.

[Dave Buettner]

Your usual source?

[Maria Vermazes]

Yeah, right. That's my go to source for news, Dave.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Of course.

[Dave Buettner]

That's right.

[Maria Vermazes]

But this one's from Rebecca Keegan. And the headline of this is this is not Keanu Inside the Billion Dollar Celebrity Impersonation Bitcoin Scam. So it talks about people getting impersonated, these celebrities getting impersonated, and it starts off with a story about this woman named Margaret who is 73 years old. She spent months making weekly bitcoin deposits to somebody she believed was Kevin Costner. They also talk about Keanu Reeves in here. She left her husband of 10 years for a meetup. I don't know if she left him permanently, but she was going to meet Kevin Costner in a hotel, and she got a text after she was there waiting for him that said, I've been in a terrible car accident. I can't make it with a picture of a banged up car. So, you know, this is typical of all these different kinds of scams. There's a couple interesting things in this article that I wanted to call out. Number one for celebrities. This is a nightmare. And I don't mean to take celebrities and say, oh, your life is so hard. But, you know, and I. And I. I do have some empathy for them. Even though they're successful. Everybody has the right to be successful, so I'm not.

[Dave Buettner]

I mean, they're human beings. Can you imagine a scam being done in your name that, you know, you obviously don't want to happen, and they're just besmirching your good name.

[Maria Vermazes]

Exactly.

[Dave Buettner]

But also, you know, like, really harming people that think that you. I mean, really hurting people.

[Maria Vermazes]

And they're. And they're doing it. Doing it as you. And that. That would. If I was. If anybody did that to me, I'd be furious. I mean, with the. What. What do we. D list celebrities. I'm. I'm a probably a celebrity. Dave might be a C list celebrity.

[Joe Kerrigan]

That's being very generous.

[Maria Vermazes]

Well, there's only five, four levels of celebrity.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Oh, is that right?

[Maria Vermazes]

Right. And everybody is at least an F list. Everybody.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Well, Joe, if there's a list I'd put you on, it would be the F list.

[Maria Vermazes]

Right? Well, we have the F list.

[Dave Buettner]

Just.

[Maria Vermazes]

Wow.

[Dave Buettner]

No, just think about what you're saying. Just think about it. Okay, let's move on.

[Maria Vermazes]

I'm on Dave's F list.

[Dave Buettner]

Maria.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah.

[Dave Buettner]

No, so update the wiki.

[Maria Vermazes]

Let's get back to these. A list celebrities.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Not in a fun way.

[Maria Vermazes]

Right. This turns into a game of Whack a Mole, where these people try to hire companies that take these fake profiles down. And There are some 400 employer performers, rather, including Scojo. Scarlett Johansson. And is that how you refer to.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Her when you're texting back and forth?

[Maria Vermazes]

Right. Yeah.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Oh, hey, Scojo.

[Maria Vermazes]

What's happening?

[Joe Kerrigan]

Joe KO Right.

[Dave Buettner]

What happens?

[Maria Vermazes]

Right. We're gonna turn her a. Into Oh, I have to do. It's mine too, right?

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah.

[Maria Vermazes]

Anyway, also Fran Drescher, who is the president of SAG aftra, which I think I did know that, that she was president.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, I met her once. Oh, did you? Very nice woman.

[Maria Vermazes]

Very nice.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, very nice.

[Maria Vermazes]

I thought she was funny on the Nanny.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, she was, yeah.

[Maria Vermazes]

But, you know, they're working on this act going through Congress called the no Fakes act, which seeks to create protections for artists, voices, likeness and images from unauthorized AI generated deepfakes. We already have the Take It Down Act. As for Maria, you and I talked about this a couple weeks ago. Protecting people from revenge porn and fake porn. But this is specifically for artists and their likeness. And I imagine it's going to have a much broader application than just work. Right. Like they, you know, I understand that the union. SAG Afro is the actors union.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Right.

[Maria Vermazes]

The Screen Actors Guild. And they're protecting their members interests and likenesses because they don't want people saying something like, oh, well, we don't have to hire Keanu Reeves. We can just use Keanu Reeves as a. As a. We can just make a model of Keanu Reeves and use that.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Right.

[Maria Vermazes]

Well, you know that you can't do that. And I don't think you should be able to do that. You know, you're using someone's likeness and. But this also has applications in this case here, where people who are famous are getting impersonated. I don't think this bill should just be focused at performers, actors and artists. I think maybe it should be focused on anybody, maybe just the general population if someone is using your likeness to promote something. Because think about athletes, right? This would apply to them too. What about, I don't know, world famous podcast stars that might, that might, you know, Dave Bittner doesn't want his.

[Joe Kerrigan]

It really is a burden, Joe. It is.

[Maria Vermazes]

I've heard such a burden. I've heard you be called podcast royalty on more than one podcast.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Well, those are all my podcasts, but.

[Maria Vermazes]

Yes, actually on other people's podcasts.

[Joe Kerrigan]

It's what I wrote for my own description on our Cyberwire website. I wrote it. It says, Dave Buettner, Cyber Podcast Royalty.

[Maria Vermazes]

Right.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Here's my question, Joe.

[Maria Vermazes]

Yes.

[Joe Kerrigan]

What difference is it gonna make if they pass this legislation? Because these people are coming from overseas.

[Maria Vermazes]

Right, right.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Like, there's no long arm of the. Like, it's already illegal to commit fraud.

[Maria Vermazes]

It is.

[Joe Kerrigan]

So how do they expect something like this to make a dentist in this sort of fraud? Unless the liability could be extended to the people who are helping facilitate this.

[Maria Vermazes]

I think that might be the only benefit.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah.

[Maria Vermazes]

Is maybe this law. I haven't looked at this law yet. I gotta look at it. But maybe this law has some benefits that would. Or some teeth in it for people like Facebook or TikTok or some kind of. All the social media platforms where this happens. They're the vehicle by which this happens.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah.

[Maria Vermazes]

So Rebecca Keegan actually started a fake Facebook account to see how this happens, she made a fake social media profile. I'm assuming it was Facebook. Actually. She used AI to age up some of her selfies and invented a beloved dead husband named Bob. And she had a little terrier named Milo and put this out there. She said within 90 minutes of opening this account, an account named Keanu Reeves, 68667 was sliding into the DMs.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Wow.

[Maria Vermazes]

Right? And wanting to know how long she'd been a fan. And her response is, since Speed. I'm like, that's not really a true Keanu Reeves fan. If you're a fan of Keanu Reeves, you've been a fan since the first Bill and Ted movie.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Okay.

[Dave Buettner]

Right. Obviously.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Sure.

[Maria Vermazes]

That's when I became a fan of Keanu Reeves. I thought he was very good in that.

[Dave Buettner]

Well, watch out in your DMs, you never know.

[Maria Vermazes]

Within two hours, four more Keanu's had slid into her DMs, and two Kevin Costner's, a Charlie Hunman or Hunnam. Hunnam. H U N N A M. I don't know who that is. And then Jonathan Rorney, who is the actor that plays Jesus on a Christian television show called the Chosen, which I think is on Amazon Prime.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Okay.

[Maria Vermazes]

So she goes on to talk about what happened once she started interacting with these guys. And you know, I've already run a little bit long here going into the. But take a, take a look at the article. It's on the Hollywood Reporter. It's not paywalled. It's pretty good. I find it fascinating how quickly these guys were on top of her.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah.

[Maria Vermazes]

You know.

[Dave Buettner]

Oh yeah.

[Maria Vermazes]

90 minutes of creating a profile, somebody was out there. Meanwhile, I put that post out on Facebook and a week goes by and nothing has happened to me.

[Dave Buettner]

You just. Maybe your. Your profile needs more info. Because you know who I get the celebrity spam from all the time on my Instagram? Like in the DMs are a gajillion Elon Musk impersonators.

[Maria Vermazes]

Really?

[Dave Buettner]

Huh. That. That, that is the only one I get. But it's Elon. Pretty much every day I get three to five of these. And it's just. And when I. Back when I was on Twitter or X or whatever you want to call it, same thing. It was like, this person is a space nerd. Let me target them with the Elon impersonation. Oh, yeah, it's wild.

[Maria Vermazes]

You know what happens to my wife is she gets by the fake profile of just the average guy or the military officer.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yes.

[Maria Vermazes]

That's what happens to Lisa.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, My wife gets those. My sister gets those. I get the ones. I don't get any celebrity ones, but I get the ones of mostly young Asian women.

[Maria Vermazes]

Yeah, Yeah. I actually haven't gotten one of those in a long time. Last time I got one was actually via text, believe it or not.

[Joe Kerrigan]

No, these come in via. But they're usually Facebook friend requests, right?

[Maria Vermazes]

Yeah, I don't. You know what? I think I have my Facebook so locked down that I don't think anybody can send a friend request unless they're a friend of a friend. So that's a good way to limit yourself there.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah. Yeah. All right, well, we will have a link to that story in the show notes. Maria, it's your turn. What do you got for us this week?

[Dave Buettner]

Well, talking about laws and potential legislation to try and protect people. Here's one that's not happening.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Good news, everyone.

[Dave Buettner]

Good news. It's not happening. And it really makes me angry, to be honest with you. So I don't know. I want to make sure that our. Our American listeners know about this. So here it is. The new click to cancel rule from the ftc, which was meant to make cancelling subscriptions as easy as signing up, has been blocked by a federal appeal appeals court just days before it was set to take effect. So if you were like me, you thought it was already pretty much a done deal. No. The rule, which was sort of in works since last October, would have required companies to get clear consent before charging for auto renewals, memberships, or free trial conversions. Disclose when the free trials end, and offer simple no hassle cancellation. And certainly we've talked about. Dave, you've mentioned it. About how a lot of these. There's some scammy apps that try to take advantage of the fact that these subscriptions just keep running or the free trial keeps going and. Oh, yeah, and then they start charging you and they just rely on the fact that you don't notice.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Right.

[Dave Buettner]

So the FTC adopted this rule again last October, and it had plans to start enforcing it Monday, July 14 and then on July 9, the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals vacated the rule, saying that the FTC skipped a required step of a preliminary regulatory analysis for rules with more than $100,000,000 in economic impact. Summary version is, the FTC was like, this won't cause more than $100 million in economic impact. And some judge said, we disagree. And as a result, this rule is no longer going to happen. It's literally a paperwork error is the reason that we are not getting this. And the court said in their ruling, while we certainly do not endorse the use of unfair and deceptive practices and negative option marketing, the procedural deficiencies of the Commission's rulemaking process are fatal here. So this is why we can't have nice things in America. I don't know what to say. It makes me so angry.

[Joe Kerrigan]

It really is.

[Dave Buettner]

All of our listeners from around the world are like, that is bonkers. And I completely agree with you. This is such an easy no brainer and we can't even have this.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Who would be against this?

[Maria Vermazes]

Here's how you do it. Here's how you do it. If you have a credit card that will let you make like token credit card numbers, like temporary credit card numbers to sign up for something, do that. And then when you don't want to use it anymore, delete the number, cancel the number. It's gone.

[Dave Buettner]

Joe, that's. That's a lot of work. It shouldn't be that much work.

[Maria Vermazes]

No, you're right.

[Dave Buettner]

It should just.

[Maria Vermazes]

You're right. But you know what, Maria? It'll really.

[Dave Buettner]

This is not the world we live in.

[Maria Vermazes]

Really irritate the people that were behind this court case, stopping it from happening. The people that were behind the plaintiffs in this case. Yeah, it will really irritate that organization.

[Dave Buettner]

Just start costing them. Yeah, it's great. Like, let's do something about it. I guess. I just, I'm in the should land of this shouldn't be this hard. We should have this. This is a no brainer. I cannot believe we can't even get something this easy to happen. Why? So, yeah, that's just me saying, right.

[Joe Kerrigan]

So do we know how this came to the attention of the 8th Circuit? It was because I think in general, when the current administration came in, they were, they were adversarial with the ftc, just sort of as a matter of political principle. So do we suspect that someone in the administration, or maybe I guess someone who has an interest in this brought it to the 8th Circuit's attention?

[Dave Buettner]

I would imagine that would be the case. Potentially the administrative law judge. That said, actually the economic impact is over a million dollars because companies will have to make it easy to unsubscribe or the burgeoning third party market of auto unsubscribe apps will hurt. I don't know. I mean, somebody clearly challenged this.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah.

[Dave Buettner]

And now what the next step is here? Your guess is as good as mine. But this was a Biden era thing from Biden ftc. I don't see the Trump administration trying it, but who knows? I'd be happy to be surprised.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Right, right. So even the idea that the FTC would go back and try to do it again, this time doing the step that that is claimed they did not do, the odds of that happening under this administration are slim because presumably President Trump has put someone else in charge of the ftc.

[Dave Buettner]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, it could happen. I don't know. This just went down a few days ago. So I'm going to keep an eye on what the FTC will do. I'm hoping this is not the last of this effort because again, it's such a simple win. I cannot imagine any American consumer being like, oh, I don't want that. I mean, this is a nuisance problem. It's sort of like robocallers, which also a scourge we have not been able to get rid of in the United States. So it's like there's all these little modern annoyances that it's like, can we just do something about it? And let's not give up on trying. Yeah, okay, I'll stop now. I'll stop ranting, I'll stop. But I just want people to know that it's not happening because this is sort of just last minute thing.

[Joe Kerrigan]

No, there was a lot of celebration over this. And I remember the stories about, I think it was either the New York Times or the Washington Post had some system in place where you could subscribe to the newspaper online, but if you wanted to cancel, you had to call and talk to a real.

[Maria Vermazes]

That was the Wall Street Journal. I know that for sure.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Okay, there you go.

[Maria Vermazes]

I actually had to cancel a credit card to get them to stop charging me. Right.

[Joe Kerrigan]

So there you go. You know, just the disproportionality of the effort for one versus the other. Just, it's just not fair.

[Maria Vermazes]

And at the time I was working at Hopkins, was entitled to a free subscription. So.

[Dave Buettner]

Yeah, that's why my tip for a lot of people was to change your address to California, somewhere in California, and then try to cancel this was back when I, oh, I am still a Boston Globe subscriber, but I was trying to cancel it years ago and it wouldn't let you one click unsubscribe. You had to make a phone call and go through the whole hard sell. However, if you were based in California, because of that state's laws, they had a one click on subscribe button that would like magically appear.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Wow.

[Dave Buettner]

So I would literally change my address to 90210 because I'm a 90s kid. And then magically I could just one click unsubscribe and it was just like, well, that means that that is the problem.

[Maria Vermazes]

A lot easier than setting up a fake credit card number or temporary or.

[Dave Buettner]

You know, But I'm thinking of things like apps and, you know, streaming services. There's another one like all these things that we sign up for just for maybe a little stint.

[Maria Vermazes]

Oh yeah, HBO got me.

[Dave Buettner]

Do not want you to cancel HBO got me.

[Maria Vermazes]

Recently I was going to cancel HBO Max and then they said because there's nothing on there I'm watching anymore, although I will miss my Bugs Bunny cartoons. But I canceled it. And when I went to cancel, they go, hey, we can give you this service for $8 a month. I'm like, I'd pay $8 a month. So I did that. And last night I got a text message going, hey, HBO charged you $19 again. So apparently my three months of $8 a month is up.

[Joe Kerrigan]

There you go.

[Dave Buettner]

Yep, yep, there you go. They got you.

[Joe Kerrigan]

That's how they get you.

[Maria Vermazes]

That's how they get.

[Dave Buettner]

That's how they get.

[Maria Vermazes]

At least for one more month. I'm trying to unsubscribe now.

[Joe Kerrigan]

All right, I tell you what, let's take a quick break to hear from our sponsor. We will be right back. And now back to our sponsor, Threat Locker, the Power Trust enterprise solution that stops ransomware in its tracks. ThreatLocker Protect is the core Threat Locker product focused on Endpoint security, designed to prevent unauthorized software from running, control how applications interact and manage access to storage devices. Its building blocks are allowlisting, Ring Fencing and Network Control. Allow Listing is a deny by default software that makes application control simple and fast. Ring Fencing is an application containment strategy ensuring apps can only access the system resources they truly need to function. Network Control locks down access by port, source, IP or dynamically with ACLs that automatically update as IP addresses change. Shut out cybercriminals with world class endpoint protection from ThreatLocker. And we thank ThreatLocker for sponsoring hacking Human. And we are back. My story this week is actually from the Reddit Scams group, and this is a new one that I had not seen before. This is someone took a screenshot of a text message that they had received. And the text message is two things. There's some text and then there's an image. And the image is of a car. In this case, it's a Kia, and it's parked in front of a sign that says triple X Girls Strip Club xxx.

[Maria Vermazes]

Yep.

[Joe Kerrigan]

And the text says, hello, I want to play a game. You've been a bad little boy. Nobody has to see this picture. It would be a shame if it was sent to you know who. Send $1000 by midnight tonight and it will go away quietly and you'll never hear from us again. Now, the interesting thing about this is that the car in the image has the person's correct license plate number on it.

[Maria Vermazes]

There has been a day drive Ikea somewhere.

[Dave Buettner]

Yeah.

[Maria Vermazes]

There is some way to access this data that we don't know about. I mean, we, the three of us, don't know about.

[Joe Kerrigan]

So, yeah, so that's what caught my eye about this. That's what sort of set it apart, is that they're using license plate data, which is readily accessible, and you, any of us can go out and buy very cheaply a database of license plates.

[Maria Vermazes]

Well, I was wrong. License plate does go and do it.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Well, license plate readers are out there. I mean, there's private companies. You're driving around, you're getting your license plate sucked up by license plate readers, and it's fair game. So what I wondered was how easy would it be for me to recreate this? So what I did was I went and I did a search for Maryland license plate database, and I went to a website called lookupaplate.com and I actually put my son's license plate number in and it came back and it told me the make and model and year of the car he owns.

[Maria Vermazes]

Really?

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah. Did not tell me the color, but that's okay. But it gave me the make and model. Actually made a graphic of his license plate number with a Maryland license plate. So that would be easy to copy and paste out of this website. So then actually let me back up a step, because the first thing I did was I went over to ChatGPT and I said, what can you tell me about the vehicle that has this license plate number? And I put in the license plate number of my son's car, and it came back and said, I cannot give you Any information about license plate numbers. And I said, okay, good. Good for you. ChatGPT.

[Maria Vermazes]

Yeah. It has guardrails.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah. So then after going to the website that looks up your license plate and tells you more about your car, I went to ChatGPT and I said, create an image. And I told it information about my car. I gave it my license plate number, and I said, and put it in front of a strip club at night. And that's the image that I pasted here in the show notes. You see the dark blue car?

[Dave Buettner]

Oh, dang.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, that's my car. Wow. With my license plate. Maryland license plate. That is my license plate. And it's parked out in front of the strip club. Right.

[Dave Buettner]

So.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Easy to do, relatively speaking. It's easy to get a license plate database. Those databases regularly include the license plate, the make and model and color of the car, where the car was seen. And you could imagine automating that to take all that information, create a really easy description to plug into one of the large language models, and just spit out images of cars in front of places where people don't want their cars to be seen. Right. And you create a photorealistic image, like this one that I created of my car out front of the strip club. And you could see how this could work with somebody. Right. The message is vague. It says. What I like about it from a manipulative sense is it says, it would be a shame if it was sent to you know who.

[Maria Vermazes]

Right.

[Dave Buettner]

And so you fill in those blanks. Right.

[Joe Kerrigan]

You feel. And everyone has a. You know who they could fill in. Oh, gosh, you know, is it your jokes on you?

[Dave Buettner]

I know nobody, Right, Exactly.

[Joe Kerrigan]

I'm a shut in. I have no friends nor family. No one loves me, which is why I spend so much time at the strip club.

[Dave Buettner]

Yeah, at a strip club, exactly. You mean the flaw is I've never heard of a strip club called Just Strip Club. They always have amazing names. So I'd be like, come on.

[Joe Kerrigan]

That's true. That's true.

[Dave Buettner]

Yeah, yeah, Just strip club. Come on. No, but. No, but the point stands, though.

[Maria Vermazes]

I.

[Dave Buettner]

This is a pretty interesting image, and I'm sure if they put Golden Banana in instead of something else, like, it'll be. There are some really funny names, Drift clubs. I kind of love the names. So, yeah, if you put something like that in, maybe it'll be a little more convincing. But I could see somebody panicking over this and making a bad decision under pressure, Right?

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yep, exactly. And it's just a numbers game.

[Dave Buettner]

Although it Is. That's true. Although I think the way to thwart this one, at least temporarily, is if your car has a very interesting bumper sticker. They won't know that.

[Maria Vermazes]

Right.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah.

[Dave Buettner]

Or like, have your bumper be really messed up and don't get it repaired because these cars all look pristine. My car looks like garbage, so I'd be like, that's not my car.

[Maria Vermazes]

That's not my.

[Dave Buettner]

I can tell that's not my car.

[Maria Vermazes]

My car also looks like that cracked windshield.

[Dave Buettner]

Yeah, yeah. Mine's in what they call city conditions, so. Yeah. It doesn't look like.

[Joe Kerrigan]

I see. Right, right. No one's going to try to steal your car or your. Well, I guess your car doesn't have a catalytic converter, does it, because you have an electric car.

[Dave Buettner]

I do have an electric. I have a gas car and I have an electric car, but both of them are in horrendous condition. Car. People hate me. It's true.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah.

[Maria Vermazes]

It's a vehicle that gets you from point A to point B. It's not a prestige symbol. This is how I feel about cars.

[Dave Buettner]

Know.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah.

[Maria Vermazes]

And I think I also live in.

[Dave Buettner]

Massachusetts where trying to keep a nice condition car is just. There's no point. Just everything needs to look like it's gone through battle because it has.

[Joe Kerrigan]

So I like to have my car look nice. Most of the time I. I keep it washed and clean inside and not made stuff. Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Buettner]

No, mine's a garbage heap. So.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah. Yeah. I just, you know, I. I mean, I'm not crazy about it. Like, I don't. If my car gets a ding or a scrape or something like that, I don't lose sleep over it. I. But at the same time, I do like to. It makes me happy when I walk out to the parking lot and I see a nice, clean, well taken care of car. So you know what I think it is? I think it's that. That is something in my life that I am able to control. Right.

[Maria Vermazes]

It's the one thing.

[Dave Buettner]

Oh, fair enough.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Right, Right.

[Dave Buettner]

Right.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Cause, you know, I share my house with other people.

[Dave Buettner]

Of certain ages, so. Yeah.

[Maria Vermazes]

Right.

[Dave Buettner]

Well, on the side of my car, when my daughter was a toddler, she. I don't. Unbeknownst to me, grabbed one of my car keys and decided she wanted to make some art on the side of my car. And she turned to me and goes, mommy, I drew a mountain, so there's a nice mountain.

[Maria Vermazes]

Your car. So you're dark.

[Dave Buettner]

I changed my own car and I was like, I'm keeping that.

[Joe Kerrigan]

What A scam, right. Oh, that's funny.

[Maria Vermazes]

And my son did that with a bike. The handle of a handlebar of a bike to my wife's car. My. My wife's last car, I think, just rode. We had the car for like less than a month. And he rode the bike down the side of it and just gouged the pain.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Right.

[Maria Vermazes]

Can't have anything nice.

[Joe Kerrigan]

No, no. Yeah, no neighbors. Have you met my idiot son?

[Dave Buettner]

My very first car when I was living post graduate, post college, I had both side mirrors. The housing had been broken off because heaven knows I probably hit all sorts of things. And then my apartment had a very, very narrow driveway with a chain link fence that was really hard to navigate in the winter when the snow would build up. So the entire left side of my car was just gouged with chain link fence, like the entire side. So I had no side mirrors and the entire side was gouged. Chain link fence. And then I think I had half a bumper on the back. Nobody messed with me on the road because I just. My car just basically said, I don't care.

[Maria Vermazes]

Everybody lets you merge.

[Dave Buettner]

Yeah, I'm imagining people let me in every time.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Right, because you don't care. I'm imagining you getting pulled over like the guys in Planes, Trains and Automobiles, you know, when the car's completely destroyed. Ma', am, do you believe this car is safe to drive? Yes, officer, yes, I do. Yes, I do.

[Dave Buettner]

And it was a Corolla.

[Joe Kerrigan]

All right, well, we will not have a link to that in the show notes because there's no link to be had. But actually, you know what? There is a link to be had. Well, I'll put a link. I'll have a link to that thing over on Reddit to put in the show notes. So I stand corrected. I correct myself. There will be a link to that in the show notes so you can see the image. All right, Joe, Maria, it is time to move on to our catch of the day.

[Maria Vermazes]

Dave, like your story, our catch of the day also comes from the scam subreddit. It's an email, just a simple email.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Okay? It reads like this, all right? It says, reply urgent inquiry, please let me know. And then anybody have a guess what language this is in before?

[Maria Vermazes]

That's Arabic.

[Joe Kerrigan]

That's Arabic, thank you very much. All right? And it says, hello and good morning. My name is Ms. Lia. Please I will like you to help me claim and invest 30 kg of diamonds and 600 kg of pure gold, which runs into hundreds of millions of USD. That is in your country. Please. It will not cost you any money or your time and it is 100% legal. I am contacting you because of my inability to travel. Now please, for more details consigning this, please write me back directly at my private email. Thank you, Ms. Leah.

[Maria Vermazes]

Uh huh, Right. Yep. Please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please.

[Dave Buettner]

Yeah, please listen to my pleas.

[Joe Kerrigan]

One big run on sentence, right? Lots of capitalized words.

[Maria Vermazes]

It's a mess USD where US has US uns have periods after it, but D does not.

[Dave Buettner]

And usually it's 100% legal.

[Maria Vermazes]

Right, 100% legal. There you go. So don't worry about it. We got you covered.

[Joe Kerrigan]

So here's a question.

[Dave Buettner]

Yep.

[Joe Kerrigan]

What do you think is more valuable? 30kg of diamonds or 600kg of gold?

[Dave Buettner]

Oh, that's going to depend on the day, wouldn't it?

[Maria Vermazes]

Well, yeah, it depends on the grade of the diamonds. And I would guess that as a seller, you know, as a seller of these things, the gold is more valuable. That would be my guess just thinking about it here.

[Joe Kerrigan]

All right.

[Dave Buettner]

Is it Costco gold bars? Now that I know that you can buy gold bars at Costco. Thank you listeners who all wrote in and let me know that my husband was really happy because he loves Costco.

[Maria Vermazes]

Right? What's not to love?

[Dave Buettner]

Yeah, I Love that question.

[Maria Vermazes]

$1.50 hot dog is my favorite thing. You heard the story about that?

[Dave Buettner]

So the pedantic answer to your question, Dave, is not enough information to answer.

[Maria Vermazes]

Right.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Well, I went over to ChatGPT and I got the answer.

[Maria Vermazes]

Okay.

[Joe Kerrigan]

All right.

[Dave Buettner]

Okay.

[Joe Kerrigan]

So it says, let's calculate approximate market value for both. One carat equals 0.2 grams for diamonds. So 30 kg would be 30,000 grams, which is 150,000 carats. Diamond prices vary wildly based on cut, clarity and size. Industrial diamond is cheap, but gem quality large diamonds can average $2,000 to $16,000 per carat or far more. At even $5,000 per carat, which is a moderate gem grade, average 150,000 carats would be US$750 million. Gold, 1 kg equals 32.15 troy ounces. 600 kg equals 19,290 troy ounces. At $2,400 per ounce, which is the July 2025 market rate, that is US$46.3 million. So it says 30 kg of gem quality diamonds is vastly more valuable than 600 kg of gold.

[Maria Vermazes]

I was wrong again.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Wow. So we should reply and say we'll keep the diamonds but we'll take the diamonds. But you can keep your gold.

[Maria Vermazes]

Worthless gold.

[Dave Buettner]

Stinking gold.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Right, Right.

[Dave Buettner]

Who wants it?

[Joe Kerrigan]

You're a dirty, precious metal.

[Maria Vermazes]

Yeah, Just email me about in the mail. Just send me physically in the mail about 15 carats of diamonds to prove that you have these diamonds.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Oh, there you go. See? Turning it around on them.

[Maria Vermazes]

Right.

[Joe Kerrigan]

I'm asking how big a bag would. 30 kg.

[Dave Buettner]

ChatGPT would never lie.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Oh, no. This is absolutely 100% accurate.

[Dave Buettner]

Yep.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Great question.

[Maria Vermazes]

Why are you saying that? Just answer the question.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah. 30 kg of diamonds is surprisingly compact, unlike gold, which is denser but bulkier for similar value. So your priceless diamond hoard would only need a bag you could comfortably carry on your shoulder. Here you go. All right. All right. So I'm imagining somebody with one of those little black masks and a black and white striped shirt and a beret with a sack over their shoulder that has a little diamond symbol printed onto the sack, sneaking around.

[Maria Vermazes]

I've talked in the past about how my wife and son are both diamond people or gemstone people.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Okay.

[Maria Vermazes]

And ever, every time you see somebody do a smash and grab at a jewelry store where they're. Where they're throwing piles of diamonds into a bag, my wife cringes. She says, you shouldn't do that with all those diamonds because they will scratch each other.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Okay.

[Maria Vermazes]

That's what makes her angry about it.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Okay. Yeah. Whereas the gold just melted down, right?

[Maria Vermazes]

Yeah. Just melted back down.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah. Who cares?

[Maria Vermazes]

Yeah. Gold's much more fungible than diamonds.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah. Interesting.

[Dave Buettner]

Fungible.

[Maria Vermazes]

Yeah.

[Joe Kerrigan]

And can be melted into fun shapes. Good word. Yeah. All right, well, that is our catch of the day. And of course, if there's something you'd like us to consider for the show, please email us. It's hackinghumans2k.com foreign thank you to threat locker, the powerful zero trust enterprise solution that stops ransomware in its tracks. For sponsoring hacking humans, visit threatlocker.com and that is our show. Brought to you by N2K CyberWire. We would love to hear from you. We are conducting our annual audience survey through the N2. There is a link in the show. Notes. Please do check it out. This episode is produced by Liz Stokes. Our executive producer is Jennifer Ivan. We're mixed by Elliot Peltzman and Trey Hester. Peter Kilpie is our publisher. I'm Dave Bittner.

[Maria Vermazes]

I'm Joe Kerrigan.

[Dave Buettner]

And I'm Maria Vermazes.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Thanks for listening.

[Dave Buettner]

Foreign.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Jones. Here on CISO Perspectives, we get candid with the thinkers, doers and trailblazers shaping cybersecurity leadership. No scripts, no sales pitches, just real stories and hard earned lessons from folks who've been there. If you're looking to grow as a leader or just want to hear how others are navigating this ever evolving field, listen to CISO Perspectives. It's your seat at the table.