Podcast Summary: Hacking Humans: "Simulated Phishing (noun) [Word Notes]"

Host: N2K Networks
Episode Date: December 30, 2025
Theme: Deception, influence, and social engineering in the realm of cyber crime, with a focus on the concept and implications of simulated phishing.

Episode Overview

This episode of "Hacking Humans" explores the concept of simulated phishing—defining it, discussing its role in security awareness, and examining both its benefits and potential drawbacks. The episode also highlights cultural attitudes toward user vulnerability in cybersecurity and references how phishing is depicted in media.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What is Simulated Phishing?

• Definition:
  • Simulated phishing is "a security awareness training technique in which authorized but fake phishing emails are sent to employees in order to measure and improve their resistance to real phishing attacks."
  • Example:
    • "The employee clicked on a link in a simulated phishing email, which took them to an educational page on social engineering." [00:44]

2. Shifting Attitudes in Cybersecurity

• Historical Blame Culture:
  • Traditionally, users were blamed for security breaches. Common industry phrases included:
    • “You can’t fix stupid.”
    • “If we didn’t have any users, our jobs would be a lot easier.”
  • Host reflects:
    • “This all presupposes that the user did something wrong instead of the infosec team keeping phishing emails away from employees or preventing phishing email from doing any damage.” [01:30]
    • Admits to personal vulnerability:
      • “I’ve been in the business for over 30 years and I still get fooled by phishing email. How can I expect Kevin down in the HR department from clicking those links when an industry veteran like me gets fooled all the time?” [01:52]

3. Purpose and Value of Simulated Phishing

• Training and Measurement:
  • Used by organizations to educate employees and assess vulnerability.
  • Simulated attacks help users identify real phishing attempts by exposing them to “convincing but harmless replicas.”
• Expert Insight (Ian Muscat, Phishdeck):
  • “While phishing tests alone are not a replacement for technical defenses such as email security gateways, phishing filters, and anti malware solutions, they can be invaluable in improving an organization's security awareness and posture. Additionally, when paired with an effective security awareness program, phishing simulation can serve as a powerful tool to promote security Best Practices.” [02:44]

4. Potential Drawbacks and Best Practices

• Potential Issues:
  • Poorly designed simulations (e.g., mimicking IRS emails) can cause confusion and fake reports (“swamping the impersonated organizations with false reports”).
  • Some real phishing lures are inappropriate for workplace simulations (“sextortion, profanity, and just plain porn”).
• Transparency is Key:
  • “One piece of advice from Defenseworks says organizations should be transparent that they're implementing a phishing simulation program so employees don't feel like they've been deceived by their employer.” [04:00]

5. Phishing in Pop Culture

• Movie Reference — "Black Hat" (2015):
  • Chris Hemsworth’s character uses a sophisticated phishing email to compromise an NSA server.
  • Realism of attack highlighted:
    • “You asked him to change his password. When he downloaded the PDF. What he downloaded was the keylogger.” [05:22]
    • “Just between you and me, I would have fallen for this attack too. But maybe if Donahue would have received more simulated phishing emails, he might know to suspect any security recommendations concerning the super secret Black Widow network. I'm just saying.” [06:11]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Blaming Users:
  • “This all presupposes that the user did something wrong instead of the infosec team keeping phishing emails away from employees or preventing phishing email from doing any damage.” [01:30]
• Personal Admission:
  • “I’ve been in the business for over 30 years and I still get fooled by phishing email.” [01:52]
• Ian Muscat on Simulated Phishing’s Role:
  • “…they can be invaluable in improving an organization's security awareness and posture.” [02:54]
• On Transparency:
  • “…so employees don't feel like they've been deceived by their employer.” [04:11]
• Cultural Pop Reference:
  • “Just between you and me, I would have fallen for this attack too.” [06:11]

Important Timestamps

• [00:44] — Introduction and definition of simulated phishing
• [01:30] — Discussion of historical cybersecurity culture
• [02:44] — Insights from Ian Muscat (Phishdeck) and value of simulated phishing
• [04:00] — Drawbacks and best practices; importance of transparency
• [05:22] — “Black Hat” movie example of phishing
• [06:11] — Reflection on personal susceptibility, value of simulation

Tone & Delivery

• Conversational, honest, and slightly self-deprecating.
• Balances technical explanation with real-world anecdotes and cultural references.

Takeaway

Simulated phishing is increasingly vital in helping organizations build a resilient security culture. While not replacing technical defenses, it raises awareness, changes behaviors, and highlights organizational vulnerabilities—provided it is implemented thoughtfully and transparently.

Episode credits:

• Written by Tim Nodar
• Executive produced by Peter Kilpe
• Edited by John Pettrick and Rick Howard
• Sound and music by Elliott Peltzman