Smells like scam season is upon us.

Summary

Podcast Summary: Hacking Humans – "Smells like scam season is upon us"

Release Date: March 27, 2025
Host/Author: N2K Networks
Description: Deception, influence, and social engineering in the world of cybercrime.

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I. Introduction

In the episode titled "Smells like scam season is upon us," hosts Dave Buettner, Maria Varma, and Joe Kerrigan delve deep into the evolving landscape of cybercrime, focusing on various sophisticated scams that are increasingly targeting individuals and organizations alike. The discussion is enriched with real-world examples, expert analyses, and insightful commentary, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the current scam trends and methods.

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II. E Z Pass Scam and Automatic License Plate Readers (ALPRs)

The episode begins with an exploration of the E Z Pass scam, where individuals receive phishing text messages alleging unpaid tolls and demanding immediate payment. Joe Kerrigan introduces a compelling theory linking this scam to the exploitation of Automatic License Plate Readers (ALPRs).

Joe Kerrigan (01:25) explains:

“Not long ago, there was a YouTuber named Mike Brown who had reverse engineering of one of the license plate readers to find that, at least at the time, the video feed and data associated with it was wide open to the Internet.”

The hosts discuss how scammers might leverage accessible ALPR data to harvest license plate numbers, correlate them with breached databases to extract associated phone numbers, and automate the dissemination of scam texts. This method underscores the intricate interplay between physical surveillance technologies and digital phishing tactics.

Maria Varma (04:16) adds:

“It’s plausible, 100% plausible.”

The conversation highlights the pervasive deployment of ALPRs across police vehicles, shopping centers, and neighborhoods, emphasizing the potential civil liberties concerns and the ease with which such systems can be exploited by cybercriminals.

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III. Detailed Analysis of a Romance Scam

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to dissecting a detailed blog post by Ben Tasker from the UK, who meticulously documents his interactions with a romance scammer named Idana. Maria Varma introduces this segment:

Maria Varma (07:20) states:

“Ben put together what I have to say is the most detailed accounting of interacting with a romance scammer that I have ever seen.”

Key elements of the scam include:

1. Emotional Manipulation: Idana employs love bombing, rapidly establishing an intense emotional connection to lower the victim’s defenses.

2. Illusion of Intimacy: She shares fabricated personal details and photos (likely stolen), creating a facade of authenticity.

3. Financial Exploitation: After building trust, Idana introduces financial needs, such as visa fees or crises, escalating to urgent money requests.

Ben Tasker (11:50) observes:

“Emotional manipulation is key. The victims are emotionally invested and likely to overlook inconsistencies.”

The hosts discuss the possibility of scammers using conditioning techniques to reinforce desired behaviors, akin to behavioral psychology principles where compliance is rewarded (e.g., sending photos) and non-compliance is subtly punished.

Joe Kerrigan (13:24) quips:

“B.F. Skinner would be proud. God, maybe ashamed.”

This segment underscores the sophisticated strategies scammers employ to exploit human emotions and trust, making romance scams particularly insidious and difficult to detect.

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IV. Family Experiences with Scams

Joe Kerrigan shares personal anecdotes highlighting the real-world impact of these scams on individuals close to him. He recounts conversations with his Aunt Margaret, who reported two alarming cases:

1. Romance Scam with a Fake Movie Star: A friend was deceived into believing they were in a relationship with a celebrity, leading to a significant financial loss of around $70,000.

2. Bank Withdrawal Scam: Another friend was on the brink of withdrawing $20,000 under the guise of purchasing a car. However, the bank manager intervened, recognizing the signs of a scam and preventing the loss.

Joe Kerrigan (15:06) narrates:

“She told me about two of her friends getting scammed. One was a woman getting scammed in a romance scam with a fake movie star out of, like 70 grand.”

Dave Buettner (16:47) commends the bank manager’s intervention:

“That’s great.”

These stories exemplify how scams can swiftly escalate, often targeting vulnerable individuals, and highlight the importance of vigilance and prompt action in preventing financial losses.

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V. Fake Business Profiles on Google Maps

The discussion shifts to an investigative report covered by CBS News, brought forth by Joe Kerrigan. The focus is on the proliferation of fake business profiles on Google Maps, particularly targeting “duress verticals” such as locksmiths, towing services, and funeral directors.

Joe Kerrigan (17:34) summarizes:

“Google found 10,000 illegitimate business listings in this one event.”

Maria Varma (20:01) queries:

“What does that mean, first raised, you know, or the article doesn't say it.”

The hosts analyze how scammers create these fake listings to deceive consumers in urgent need of services, leading to financial exploitation through overcharged fees or substandard services. They critique Google's reactive approach to identifying and eliminating these fraudulent profiles, suggesting the need for more proactive measures leveraging advanced AI technologies.

Maria Varma (21:03) highlights:

“Scammers are becoming increasingly sophisticated, which is true.”

This segment emphasizes the challenges large platforms face in combating fraudulent activities and the significant impact on small to medium-sized businesses striving for legitimate online presence.

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VI. FTC Action Against Click Profit

Dave Buettner presents an in-depth examination of the Federal Trade Commission’s (FTC) legal action against Click Profit, an organization accused of defrauding customers with promises of AI-powered e-commerce success.

Key Points:

• False Promises: Click Profit advertised advanced AI and a $5 million “supercomputer” to boost e-commerce storefronts, claiming users could achieve six to eight-figure profits.

• Upfront Costs: Victims were required to invest $45,000 to $75,000 for storefront management services and an additional $10,000 for inventory.

• Poor Returns: According to the FTC, a fifth of the stores generated no revenue, and a third made less than $2,500 in total sales, rendering the investments futile.

Dave Buettner (31:10) criticizes the misleading nature of Click Profit’s business model:

“If you have any winnings in this case, that they don't need the money. They're going to donate the damages to an organization in this case that works with fighting scams.”

• Exploitation and Harassment: When victims sought refunds, Click Profit allegedly threatened legal actions and seized family assets to silence negative reviews.

Joe Kerrigan (35:24) sarcastically remarks:

“Great, classy operation.”

The FTC's lawsuit aims to permanently shut down Click Profit and recover funds for the victims, highlighting the regulatory efforts to curb such deceptive business practices.

Maria Varma (36:26) summarizes:

“They're telling people to F off. Allegedly.”

This case serves as a stark reminder of the complexities and dangers inherent in high-stakes, AI-driven investment scams, emphasizing the need for due diligence and skepticism towards offers promising unrealistic returns.

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VII. Catch of the Day: Work From Jail Scam

The episode features a humorous yet cautionary "Catch of the Day" segment based on a Reddit post from the "Our Scambait" subreddit. The scam involves an automated interaction where an individual in jail is offered a job that purportedly allows them to work from their cell, promising substantial earnings for minimal effort.

Dave Buettner (39:37) introduces the scenario:

“Wishing you a fantastic day full of opportunities. Diana just informed me to contact you to talk about the job opportunity we have.”

The conversation showcases the bot’s unwavering adherence to the scam script, attempting to elicit sensitive information such as Social Security numbers under the guise of job-related tasks.

Agent Shield (41:15) humorously interjects:

“I forgot to mention I'm in jail.”

Maria Varma (44:25) reflects:

“And it goes on from there.”

This segment underscores the automation behind many modern scams, highlighting how pre-programmed bots are employed to target a wide array of individuals through seemingly personalized interactions.

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VIII. Conclusion

"Smells like scam season is upon us" effectively illuminates the sophisticated techniques employed by modern scammers, from exploiting surveillance technologies and social engineering to creating fraudulent online business profiles and enticing investment schemes. The hosts stress the critical need for heightened awareness, robust security measures, and proactive strategies to combat these evolving threats. By dissecting real-world examples and expert analyses, the episode equips listeners with the knowledge to recognize and defend against prevalent and emerging scams in today's digital age.

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Notable Quotes:

• Joe Kerrigan (01:25): “Not long ago, there was a YouTuber named Mike Brown who had reverse engineering of one of the license plate readers to find that, at least at the time, the video feed and data associated with it was wide open to the Internet.”

• Maria Varma (07:20): “Ben put together what I have to say is the most detailed accounting of interacting with a romance scammer that I have ever seen.”

• Dave Buettner (31:10): “They told them. Google told CBS that it removed or blocked about 12 million fake business profiles in 2023...”

• Joe Kerrigan (35:24): “Great, classy operation.”

• Maria Varma (36:26): “They're telling people to F off. Allegedly.”

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Final Thoughts:

This episode of "Hacking Humans" serves as a crucial alert to the myriad ways in which cybercriminals are adapting and enhancing their deceptive practices. By providing detailed analyses and real-life examples, the hosts empower listeners to stay vigilant and informed, fostering a community resilient against the tides of cyber deception.

Transcript

[Dave Buettner]

You're listening to the Cyberwire Network, powered by N2K.

[Maria Varma]

Hello, everyone, and welcome to N2K, CyberWire's hacking humans podcast, where each week we look behind the social engineering scams, phishing schemes, and criminal exploits that are making headlines and taking a heavy toll on organizations around the world. I'm Dave Buettner, and joining me is my N2K colleague and host of the T minus daily podcast, Maria Vermasis.

[Dave Buettner]

Maria, hi.

[Maria Varma]

And of course, my longtime co host of Hacking Human, Joe Kerrigan. Hi, Dave. Howdy, howdy, howdy. So we've got some good stories to cover here, and we will be right back after this message from our show sponsor.

[ThreatLocker Sponsor]

And now a few thoughts from our sponsors. At ThreatLocker, the tactics used by cyber criminals are becoming more and more advanced every day. The shift from a default allow approach to a default deny is more critical than ever. This is where ThreatLocker comes in. Stay tuned for how ThreatLocker allow listing and ring fencing has your back.

[Maria Varma]

All right, before we dig into stories, we've got some follow up here. Joe, you want to do the honors?

[Joe Kerrigan]

Sure. Hi, Dave. Joe and Maria, first off, love the show. Wanted to give a thought and a follow up to the E Z Pass scam. Like you mentioned in the podcast on previous episodes, where people get the phishing text. These are the ones that say, hey, you owe some tolls. Pay us some money.

[Maria Varma]

Right.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Not long ago, There was a YouTuber named Mike Brown who had reverse engineering of one of the license plate readers to find that, at least at the time, the video feed and data associated with it was wide open to the Internet. Huh. It could be that scammers tapped into this, pulling the license plate numbers and reading the data and then breaching and then using some data breach to find phone numbers associated with the license plates, then automate the system to send out the scam text messages in near real time. This is an interesting theory.

[Maria Varma]

It is plausible, 100% plausible.

[Dave Buettner]

We're going to do the Mythbusters version. Plausible.

[Joe Kerrigan]

So these ALPRs are all over the place now. You see them mounted on the back of police cars. Police cars will drive through shopping centers with alpr, it's automatic license plate reader.

[Maria Varma]

Yep.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Very complicated. Complicated acronym. And they will, you know, just keep track of who's. Who's where.

[Maria Varma]

Right.

[Joe Kerrigan]

And if, hey, this the owner of this vehicle has some warrants on them, maybe we just hang out here. Yeah. So it helps them automate the process, I guess. I think there are some real civil liberties concerns here to say the least.

[Maria Varma]

Well, it's not just the police. Also like they've got a coming in and out of shopping malls and neighborhoods.

[Joe Kerrigan]

There's one at my employer.

[Maria Varma]

Okay, nice. Yeah, they're all over.

[Joe Kerrigan]

I'm sure there's more than one, but I've just noticed one because I only go in and out one exit.

[Maria Varma]

Right.

[Dave Buettner]

Hey, that's one just sitting on the side of a highway. I mean, absolutely.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Could be. I mean they're small, they're about the size of. I want to say, you know what first came to my mind? The original Star Trek series tricorders.

[Maria Varma]

We all know that.

[Dave Buettner]

At least we know what that looks.

[Maria Varma]

Like speaking our language.

[Joe Kerrigan]

They're about that big and they are. And they do the automatic license plate reading. And I would imagine that I don't know this for a fact. I'd like to see this reverse engineering video and there's a link in this email so we'll put it in the show. Notes that it doesn't spit out a picture of a license plate. It spits out the text of the plate. So you just can read that text, take that feed, parse it, run a python script against it, go against, hit your database of breached data, find a phone number you can text to, send the text to the phone number and see if you can start making profit.

[Maria Varma]

Yeah. I have watched this video. I watched it a while back when it first came to light and it is interesting, surprising that this was out there in the clear for anyone who knows how to to.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Are you really surprised?

[Maria Varma]

Well, I guess disappointing is probably the worst.

[Joe Kerrigan]

I am very disappointed in whoever did this.

[Maria Varma]

Yeah. I would also note that, you know, toll plazas have license plate readers built in them. So I wonder if that vulnerability is in the license plate readers that are toll plazas. You could plug into one of those. Then you're a long way ahead of where you want to be to execute something like this.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yep. Actually right in the data stream. You want is what you are.

[Maria Varma]

Yeah, that's interesting. I think this is a plausible idea. We were talking about this earlier in one of our meetings, Cyberwire meeting. We were saying that one of the theories is that like one of the apps you have on your phone could be geofencing you.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Right.

[Maria Varma]

And anytime you're with it, it sees that you're on a toll road that triggers the message. But I like this even better. This seems more direct.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, more direct. And you could even time it for when they leave the toll road.

[Maria Varma]

Yeah.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Cause that's probably where the ALPR is, right?

[Maria Varma]

I think when you go in and when you go out, they tag you both times, probably.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Right?

[Maria Varma]

Yeah, yeah, I've gotten, you know, letters.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, I got a letter I gotta respond to.

[Maria Varma]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had one. My E Z Pass expired. Actually, I got a new car and my E Z Pass hadn't been associated with that car. Associated a new car. So I went over the Bay Bridge and I don't know, a week later or so got a letter. And, you know, we're always going to get you. Yeah, I mean, I went on the website and I associated it with a new car and all was good. I didn't actually have to pay anything. But sure enough, they send you a photo and. Yep, that's me.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yep.

[Maria Varma]

So that's the way it goes. We will have a link to a story from cyberscoop that talks about these scammy text messages and the unpaid tolls and really looks into it. So we'll have that in the show. Notes for folks.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Right. Anyway, that was sent to us by someone calling themselves Agent Shield.

[Maria Varma]

Okay, good for you, Mr. Shield or Mrs. Shield. Sir Shield, Madam Shield.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Maybe it's Brooke Shield. That would be Shields, though.

[Maria Varma]

King of the shields.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yes.

[Maria Varma]

All right, well, thank you for sending that in, and we would love to hear from you. If there's something you'd like us to consider for the show, you can email us. It's hackinghumans2k.com all right, I'm going to lead things off with our stories here today. And my story is actually a blog post from a gentleman named Ben Tasker. He lives in the uk. He is an engineering manager at an organization called Chainguard. They provide vetted open source software. So if you're looking to use open source software in your project, Chainguard provides a way to have some confidence that your open source software is what it says it is.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, that's good.

[Maria Varma]

So Ben put together what I have to say is the most detailed accounting of interacting with a romance scammer that I have ever seen.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Really?

[Maria Varma]

Yes. And it is fascinating in its detail. He is very thorough. He does some AB testing. He's really. He starts off the blog post by apologizing for how long it's going to be. And it is long. But if you're into this sort of thing and you're curious what might be going on, it is worth the look. It's quite extensive and I recommend it. So let me take you through what he's done here. He got contacted randomly by someone who used the name Idana. Idana. Idana. I don't know. It's not a name I'm familiar with. She is a self proclaimed dentist from Kazakhstan. So he decided to engage with her. It started with a simple email. Idana claimed to have stumbled across his contact and was eager to get to know him. Her messages were affectionate. Within just a few exchanges, she was calling him dear and my love and showering him with warmth. Love bombing, he said. It was clear that she was following a script that was designed to fast track trust. So the next step was what he refers to as the illusion of intimacy. As their conversation went on, Idanna worked hard to make her story feel real. So she spoke about her daily routine as a dentist and shared details about her life and started sending photos. But the images didn't quite match the flow of their conversation. So Ben's pretty sure they were just borrowed from somewhere else, which I see there's excellent chance that that's the case.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Right.

[Maria Varma]

Eventually, she suggested phone calls, and so they did speak. He noticed inconsistencies. Her accent didn't quite match her claimed nationality. Let me just say, as an aside, would either of us, any of us, be able to nail whether a. Kazakhstan. Kazakhstan.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Kazakhstan. Was the Kazakh accent? No, I've only ever met one person from Kazakhstan, one of the students up at jhu, and I can't remember exactly what his accent sounded like.

[Maria Varma]

Yeah, I do know a woman from Kazakhstan who's been a guest on Cyberwire. So if I have someone I could ask or go back and listen to my interview with her.

[Joe Kerrigan]

But to answer your question, no, I would not be able to nail a. I would not be able to say that is or is not a Kazakh accent.

[Maria Varma]

Yeah, yeah, but for whatever reason, Ben knows more than we do when it comes to this, and he said the accent didn't match. And also there was a lot of strange background noises during their conversations, which chances are, whoever it was, they were sitting in some bullpen somewhere.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yep.

[Maria Varma]

So the next step was the money. So the relationship was established. Aidana moved to the real goal, which is getting cash. She wove an emotional story designed to make Ben feel both sympathetic and responsible to helping her. Maybe she needed money for a visa. Maybe she was facing an unexpected crisis. Her details would shift around, but the goal was the same. And of course, Ben wasn't going to send her any money. But instead, he let the conversation run longer, trying to study her tactics. And the pattern was pretty clear. First you have emotional investment, then a subtle introduction of financial needs, and then that escalates into urgent requests. So through it all, and again, this is a detailed report. Ben's takeaways were that there were key strategies used here in this romance scam. First of all, emotional manipulation. Trying to establish an intense connection very quickly. And one thing he noted was that consistency was not a priority. He said small details often don't add up, but the victims are emotionally invested in the relationship and so they're likely to overlook those details.

[Dave Buettner]

Right, or explain it away.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, explain it away.

[Maria Varma]

And then escalation to money requests. You know, the scammers take their time before introducing financial problems, waiting until they believe the victim is hooked. So there's one other thing I want to touch on here, which I thought was particularly interesting. He has an area of his write up where he talks about the possibility of conditioning techniques. Now, this was new. I'd never seen this before. I'm just gonna read from his post. He says, so there was a situation where Aidana asked him to provide a phone number and he did not right away. And he says being told off for not providing a phone number did lead to an interesting observation. Every other email had included photos of Aidana, but these did not. Was this deliberate? Over time, I used different accounts to fail to comply with requests in different ways. And sure enough, it seemed to have an impact on whether the scammer attached a photo or not. This only happened during the early stages of the scam, though. Once our pseudo relationship had started developing, photos were much more consistently sent. It's a small sample, so perhaps I'm reading too much into it. But it appears that the scammers have built positive conditioning into the early stages of their workflows. If the mark does what Edana asks, they receive a reward in the form of a photo. If they don't, no photo is forthcoming.

[Joe Kerrigan]

B.F. skinner would be proud. God, maybe ashamed. I don't know.

[Maria Varma]

I found this particular element fascinating.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, me too.

[Maria Varma]

Like Ben says, he's got a small sample size, but it was something that he noticed. And it makes sense, right?

[Joe Kerrigan]

You get a reward.

[Maria Varma]

Reward for doing what they want you to do and punishment for not. Yeah.

[Dave Buettner]

Have people never seen a woman on the Internet? I just don't understand how that works.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Wait, they have women on the Internet?

[Dave Buettner]

Like, how is that enough of an incentive? Okay, I'm out of.

[Maria Varma]

Yeah, well, Maria, you're not a man.

[Dave Buettner]

I know. I'm just like, really?

[Maria Varma]

Yes. Yes. We really are that simple?

[Dave Buettner]

Yes.

[Joe Kerrigan]

It is not complicated.

[Maria Varma]

No, we really are that simple. Yes.

[Dave Buettner]

I've been married over a decade, and yet you men continue to surprise me all the time.

[Maria Varma]

Oh, no. And again. And like we said earlier in the show, by surprise you mean disappoint, right?

[Joe Kerrigan]

You need to lower your expectations, Maria.

[Dave Buettner]

I don't think they can get much lower, Joe.

[Maria Varma]

No, Our base impulses are about as low as they can go. And this reflects that, certainly.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yes, absolutely.

[Dave Buettner]

My goodness.

[Maria Varma]

So, like I said, it's a very interesting analysis of this sort of thing. So if you're interested, and I suspect if you're listening to the show, you are. It's a good read, and Ben really did his homework. And like I said, this is the most detailed analysis I've seen of someone actively playing along with these people. And there's some really interesting insights.

[Joe Kerrigan]

I'm gonna take a look at this.

[Maria Varma]

Yeah. So we'll have a link to that in the show notes and do check it out. All right, well, let's move along here. Joe, what do you have for us this week?

[Joe Kerrigan]

Well, first, I wanna talk about this past Sunday. I had some family in for an event, and it was actually at my daughter's house. And on Sunday, my aunt asked me, joe, you work in cybersecurity. Do you know anything about scams? You haven't talked to anybody about what I do. I said, I have this great podcast where I talk about exactly this all the time. So I want to say welcome to our newest listener, my Aunt Margaret.

[Maria Varma]

Oh, hello, Aunt Margaret.

[Joe Kerrigan]

She told me about two of her friends getting scammed. One was a woman getting scammed in a romance scam with a fake movie star out of, like 70 grand. It was one of her friends that happened to. I don't know what the status of that is, but I think they're still working on it, and they're still working on it in their friend group, and she's resistant to any information. And, Maria, I shared some things that you and I or that we've talked about here on this show about trying to get people out of these kind of situations and how hard that is. Yeah, the. They. Another one of her friends was on the phone with a scammer and went to withdraw money from her bank, $20,000. When she's on the phone and the. The guy, the scammer says, tell the teller you're going to buy a car and you need the cash. But the teller said. Saw that she was on the phone and said, he says, I need to tell you that I'm going to buy a car. And the teller gets the branch manager, and the branch manager says, no, you're not getting the money out. You're on the phone with a scammer right now. We're not doing this. We're calling one of your families, one of your family members. And now, actually, this woman's family has gotten power of attorney over her finances.

[Dave Buettner]

Oh, that's great.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, the bank manager there saved this woman 20 grand. And my aunt was saying she might be in the early stages of. Of dementia. I don't know if it's dementia or something else, or it could just be that she's on the phone and getting scammed. You don't need to have dementia to have that happen.

[Dave Buettner]

No, you don't.

[Joe Kerrigan]

But bad news on one front, good news on another. So that's why I recommended this podcast. And like I tell everybody else, it's the podcast your mom can listen to. The cybersecurity podcast your mom can listen to.

[Maria Varma]

Well, somebody needs to send that bank manager a fruit basket.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Dave Buettner]

Seriously, that's good training and well spotted. Yeah, that's what you want to happen. So that's. That's very encouraging. Yeah, that's great.

[Joe Kerrigan]

So my story this week actually comes from CBS News, written by Cara Fellows and Kate Blatt. I'm just. I'm not going to read the headline because that kind of ruins it for me. And I want you guys to get this, but Google has found some fake business profiles on their site. And the issue was first raised. Yes. Shocker, right? Shocker.

[Dave Buettner]

Yeah.

[Maria Varma]

You mean the guy who lives down the row for me isn't actually a female body inspector from the FBI?

[Joe Kerrigan]

He probably is actually a female body inspector, Dave.

[Maria Varma]

Okay.

[Joe Kerrigan]

You want to keep your wife away from that guy?

[Maria Varma]

Yeah, sure, sure.

[Joe Kerrigan]

This issue was raised to their attention by a Texas business that flagged an unlicensed locksmith impersonating them on Google Maps. Now, I thought to myself, what does that mean, first raised, you know, or the article doesn't say it. So I did a little bit of searching around and I used Bing because it turns out if you type in company sues Google and Google, you don't get a lot of results.

[Dave Buettner]

Again, shock. Amazing.

[Joe Kerrigan]

So this has been a long running problem with locksmithing companies going back all the way to 2012, where locksmithing companies are being impersonated. And I don't know what the scam was back then, but we're gonna talk about what the scam is now in this. So they pulled the thread on this, and it's just the beginning. Google got to work and started finding these fake accounts and they found 10,000 illegitimate business listings in this one event that they were doing. Now these could be either a fake business that someone just set up or it could be an account that had been hacked or hijacked. You know Dave, have you ever been search for a business on Google, Google Maps and you, you pull up the map and it says, is this your business? Claim it.

[Dave Buettner]

Yes, all the time. Yeah.

[Joe Kerrigan]

I've often wondered what would happen if I just claim someone's business and, and how that would find out. Yeah, I mean, well, I don't want to do that because I don't want to, I don't want to just take someone else's Google listing. Right. I don't want to do what these, these scammers are doing. But it seems to me like if you were, if you were a scammy kind of person, that would be the easiest way to do that. Claim it. Claim the business. It's right there on the webpage. It's there on the interface.

[Maria Varma]

Right.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Google says the scammers would target what they call duress verticals. Thank you business school graduate.

[Maria Varma]

You.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Duress verticals, what does that mean? That means companies that you need in a time sensitive manner. So for example, locksmiths, towing companies, sewer companies, septic companies, funeral directors, plumbers, funeral directors, all these things, anything you're going to need. And so once these scammers had picked the business they were going to target, they would work with, they weren't working alone, and they would find other scammers around the world and use, wait for it, social media. And in one example, Google has filed a lawsuit against these people, by the way. And in one example, in this lawsuit, Google says that one of these scammers made alleged postings in multiple Facebook groups to advertise five star reviews that can bypass Google's guidelines.

[Maria Varma]

Okay.

[Dave Buettner]

Uh huh. Okay.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Now this article points out that fake business listings are prohibited on Google Maps.

[Dave Buettner]

Oh sure, that's gonna stop them, but yeah, okay, thanks.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Thanks Google. That should do it. Yep. But how they start pulling the thread on this, someone had to tell them something's wrong. So they don't really go looking for these things. And there are some great quotes in here from Halima Delaine Prado, who is Google's general counsel. Once we're alerted to the actual fraud, we take extreme efforts to identify similar fraudulent listings. So they don't do anything until they're alerted to it. I think that's a problem. I think they should be looking for this all the time.

[Maria Varma]

Yeah.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Although I don't know how they would go about this. But they have some really smart people over there at Google.

[Dave Buettner]

Yeah, they've gotta be able to figure this out. If they can't figure this out.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Right.

[Dave Buettner]

I mean, geez.

[Joe Kerrigan]

And then the next quote is, scammers are becoming increasingly sophisticated, which is true. I mean, that's almost a truism. Online business profiles are incredibly valuable to businesses as well as consumers. This is what Ms. DeLane Prado says. Small and medium businesses use those listings for word of mouth and discoverability. So really, this is not hurting large corporations. Of course this is going to hurt the small and medium sized businesses. And when you are on the receiving end of this, notifying Google and trying to get their help is, I think it's going to be like screaming into the void. I don't think you're going to get a lot of response. One of the other things they did on these, with these reviews is they sold them as a way to suppress real bad reviews on the platform. So, I mean, have you ever left a bad review for a business? You know, a business ever just really make you angry and go, hey, you're gonna get it?

[Maria Varma]

Sure.

[Dave Buettner]

No, I haven't.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Never have.

[Dave Buettner]

I'm too millennial to do that. I don't do that.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Oh, I've left some scathing reviews.

[Dave Buettner]

Dang.

[Maria Varma]

Mine have been diplomatic.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Not mine.

[Dave Buettner]

None of this surprises me.

[Maria Varma]

Yeah, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. I just want, you know, to be factual when I'm doing this.

[Joe Kerrigan]

My feelings are already hurt, so.

[Maria Varma]

I see. So you're going to spread it around.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, I'm going to. I'm not absorbing this all on my own.

[Maria Varma]

No, no, no, no, of course not.

[Joe Kerrigan]

And this is not the first time that Google has tried to take out scammers. They told them. Google told CBS that it removed or blocked about 12 million fake business profiles in 2023, which was about a million more, or close to a 5% increase from 2022. Now, Google says if they have any winnings in this case, that they don't need the money. They're going to donate the damages to an organization in this case that works with fighting scams, which I think is good. That's nice that you're doing that.

[Maria Varma]

They should send it to us. We're an organization that works to fight scams.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Hey, that's a great idea. Maybe we can finally get them as sponsors after we spent the past four years bashing them.

[Maria Varma]

That's right. Yeah.

[Dave Buettner]

Stop right there champing at the bit.

[Maria Varma]

That's true.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, right.

[Maria Varma]

So Is the situation here that, for example, you know, my car breaks down, I'm on the side of the road, I get out my phone to look for a tow truck and a duress.

[Dave Buettner]

Vertical, if you will.

[Maria Varma]

A duress vertical, Exactly. I'm in the market for some duress verticals, and I look for a tow truck. And so there will be a fake listing. I will then call those people and they'll say, hello, Joe's Tow Trucks. And I'll say, hey, I need a tow truck. And they'll say, well, send one right over. But before we do, you know, we get scammed a lot. First thing I'm going to need is your credit card number. And I say, no problem. But then they got my credit card number and nobody shows up. Like that sort of thing.

[Joe Kerrigan]

That is not what happens. I mean, that's a good guess. But there are several distinctive tactics that these scammers use. First is the bait and switch, which is when someone is searching for a local service, but instead of reaching the. The actual person they need, they get a fake listing, which is something you're describing. So, yeah, maybe. Okay. The other one is that the company, the number is just. The fake number is just going to a lead generation service.

[Maria Varma]

Yeah.

[Joe Kerrigan]

So the calls go to the scammer. The consumer then gets connected to some completely different company than the one they thought they were reaching out to. And when the scam service arrives, they often demand much higher than the original quoted payment.

[Maria Varma]

I see.

[Joe Kerrigan]

And because it is a duress vertical, as they say, you're going to pay it. I mean, I can't sit around. I've wasted an hour and a half of my time waiting for the first tow truck to get here. I can't wait for the legitimate tow truck to get here. I'll just pay the scammer the 150% of this bill.

[Maria Varma]

Yeah.

[Joe Kerrigan]

So that's what it does.

[Dave Buettner]

So a tow truck actually does show up, Is that.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, yeah, somebody does show up. But they just charge you a lot of money. You know, we moved to a new house and we have well and septic. Okay. And I was talking to my neighbor and their well pump failed. And the well the company they, they brought out knew that their well pump had failed and charged them about double what it normally costs to replace a well pump.

[Maria Varma]

Oh, that's not good.

[Joe Kerrigan]

No, it's not. So I said, who was that? I won't use them.

[Maria Varma]

Right. Interesting. Well, if you need one, I got a well guy. Do you have a well guy? I do. Oh, good.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Let Me have the well. I'll talk to the well guy because I would like to get my well pump replaced before it fails.

[Maria Varma]

There you go.

[Joe Kerrigan]

So I'm not sitting there. I mean, that's like funeral directors, right? You always pre plan your own funerals and, and you go in there and you go, look, this is my funeral. I want the cheapest possible funeral I can get. Right. Give me the hobo special.

[Maria Varma]

You say plain pine box.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Plain pine box is fine with me.

[Maria Varma]

Sprinkle some lime, put me in a shallow hole.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Embalming? No, thank you. That sounds like it costs extra. So you go in there and you do that because if you wait till the time of need, it's remarkably much more expensive. Buying this before you need it is far less expensive.

[Maria Varma]

It's true.

[Joe Kerrigan]

So don't let your family fall for a duress vertical. In the.

[Dave Buettner]

Duress verticals, don't let them happen to you.

[Maria Varma]

Duress verticals are us, right? Yeah.

[Joe Kerrigan]

I think I've beaten this one to death.

[Maria Varma]

You think?

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, but good for Google for getting rid of it. I think that, I still think they need to do more. I think they need to be proactive about this. I think they need, you know, they've got some of the most powerful AI in the world. Put that to work finding these fake accounts and fraudulent accounts.

[Maria Varma]

Right.

[Joe Kerrigan]

If you're not already doing that.

[Maria Varma]

All right, we will have a link to that story in the show notes. Before we get to Maria's story, let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor.

[ThreatLocker Sponsor]

So let's return to our sponsor, ThreatLocker. ThreatLocker is a zero trust endpoint protection platform that strengthens your infrastructure from the ground up. Where traditional cybersecurity tools require you to create a list of things you don't Want to Run, ThreatLocker enables you to easily curate an allow list of everything you need in your environment and network and block everything else by default. With ThreatLocker allowlisting and ring fencing, you gain a more secure approach to blocking exploits of known and unknown vulnerabilities. ThreatLocker provides zero trust control at the kernel level that enables you to allow everything you need and block everything else, including ransomware. The ThreatLocker Zero Trust Endpoint Protection platform deploys in a learning mode that analyzes the operations of your company using machine learning to assist you in developing your allow list for approved applications, what they can do on the endpoint, what can interact with your data, and even east and west network traffic. We thank ThreatLocker for sponsoring our show.

[Maria Varma]

And we are back. Maria, you are up. What do you have for us this week?

[Dave Buettner]

I have a story by way of the FTC and Annie Palmer at cnbc. And it comes from the. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is department. The FTC is taking legal action against an organization none of us have heard of for good reason called Click Profit. And it's. Unless you have heard of it, I would be very surprised. It's an E commerce operation accused of scamming customers out of millions of dollars with promises of easy. You knew this is coming. AI powered wealth. Yeah. So this company, Click Profit, it lured in its customers by with a lot of flashy ads on social media. TikTok especially featuring his co founder. Literally. And I mean it, because I've watched these ads flaunting wads of cash in like a CG window of a car hanging out with like Warren Buffett. It just really ridiculous. None of this seemed above board. But believe it or not, is it.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Really hanging out with Warren Buffett or is that.

[Dave Buettner]

Yeah, he totally was.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, it's a fake video.

[Dave Buettner]

Yes, Joe, yes.

[Maria Varma]

Okay, no, Joe, he's really good friends. He's really totally in on this.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Okay.

[Maria Varma]

He's just still a side hustle for Warren Buffett because he needs, you know, he needs a little extra scratch.

[Dave Buettner]

Joe, do we need an intervention for you?

[Maria Varma]

No.

[Dave Buettner]

Is everything okay?

[Joe Kerrigan]

Anytime I see Warren Buffett in an ad, I'm like, B.S.

[Dave Buettner]

Yeah, good. Okay. So the ad was making these claims that if you invested with Click Profit, you would make more money more safely as a better sure bet than if you were investing that money in the stock market. And that customers of Click Profit who invested with them could make six to eight figures in profit.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Wait a minute, wait a minute, hold on. Customers who invest? Customers who invest. That's not a customer, that's an investor. Maybe you're gonna.

[Maria Varma]

Okay, go on, Maria. Go on, Maria.

[Dave Buettner]

Okay, I wanna keep going. All right.

[Maria Varma]

Yeah.

[Dave Buettner]

All right. The company said that it used advanced AI. Don't look inside the black box. It's just. It works, right? And a $5 million quote unquote supercomputer to find the most profitable products on E commerce websites like Amazon, Walmart or TikTok. And they also said that they had partnerships. These are false, by the way, with major brands like Nike and Disney and all A customer slash investor. Let's just use whichever one you want to use, Joe. All you needed to do. All you needed to do, Joe, was front the cash for a storefront management service, basically. With, with Click Profit doing the heavy lifting for you, but they just need your money for that upfront investment. And then the money would just roll in through the storefront that you fronted the cash for. Passive income, baby.

[Joe Kerrigan]

We talked about this last week, didn't we?

[Dave Buettner]

We sure did.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Right?

[Dave Buettner]

I love that phrase, passive income. It's like right up there with duress verticals, just like. Oh, man. So the customers were told that if you just pay a mere 45 to 75k upfront, you get an online store built from the ground up. That's what Click Profit was, was promising. And then you get charged additionally another $10,000 for inventory to be sold through this store that they would manage for you. And then, of course, well, what's their take? Click Profit. Because, you know, we don't want this to be a scam or anything. Click Profit goes. We'll take just a 35% cut of any profits. The rest goes in your pocket. And again, the money's gonna be rolling in, so 35%. You won't even notice it.

[Maria Varma]

Yeah.

[Dave Buettner]

And then, in case that wasn't a sweet enough deal, Click Profit off also assured their investors, slash customers, slash victims, that if you didn't want to do. If you didn't want to do this business anymore, you could actually exit by selling your store to venture capital firms that would actually want to buy your store at a 3-6x multiple. So no matter what, you're basically sitting on piles of money. You don't even have to try. It's just there. Just invest. It's just AI is going to make it all better. So, surprise, surprise, the promised AI technology did not exist. I'm sure you're both just falling out of your chairs with shock commodore vic.

[Maria Varma]

20 sitting in a closet somewhere, you know, with a 300 baud acoustic coupler modem.

[Joe Kerrigan]

It's $5 million in supercomputers, but it's all Nvidia chips. And the guys using to play Fortnite.

[Dave Buettner]

They'Re just crypto mining. Yeah. So according to the FTC report, a fifth of the stores that signed up through Click profit made exactly $0, like not a single cent, and a third made under 2,500 in total sales. So doing some math, that's about half of the customers through Click Profit who got basically nothing back at all. So I guess the other half got something over 2,500. But that's still not even close to the 45 to 75k plus extra because customers, surprise, surprise, were also put on the hook throughout Their engagement with Click Profit for a bunch of ad hoc fees. And then they were also left in deep in debt with a bunch of unsold inventory. So it's sort of like a pyramid scheme angle of the fact.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, I was about to say this sounds like a multi level marketing scam.

[Dave Buettner]

It sure does. It sure does.

[Maria Varma]

Absolutely.

[Dave Buettner]

And I guess maybe adding insult to injury, if you really wanted to keep this going without Click Profit, maybe you could think that you could keep your store running. But actually Amazon shut down 95% of these stores for violating their ToS. So you even do it without Click Profit. They don't. It's just completely not okay. So the thing that got me about the story is that when victims realized that they'd been scammed and started asking Click Profit for refunds, according to the ftc, allegedly, they not only ignored customer emails, they then would threaten legal action against their victims. And in one case, they even bullied one customer into taking down a negative review by threatening to seize his family's assets. And then that customer, I guess, cowed by all of this, later asked for a partial refund of all the money that they fronted. And Click Profit's co founder responded and I quote, f off. So nice.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Great, classy operation.

[Dave Buettner]

Yeah, yeah, it's great. It's very, very ethical. So FTC is now suing to shut down Click Profit permanently and recover money for the victims. And they just filed a case in federal court. There's a temporary restraining order against Click Profit and it was filed on March 5th, so pretty recently. So hopefully the victims will get their money back. But it is a good reminder, just like last week, passive income, I mean, we talked about it a lot last week, but that is a big red flag. And as always, anyone promising insane returns or AI driven passive income is making money off of you and not for you.

[Maria Varma]

Right.

[Joe Kerrigan]

I think it's time to bring back public canings for these people, because we know who these people are. They're registered businesses in the United States and they're just defrauding people. Allegedly.

[Maria Varma]

Yeah, allegedly.

[Dave Buettner]

And they're telling people to F off. Allegedly.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Tell people. Right. With impunity.

[Dave Buettner]

Allegedly.

[Joe Kerrigan]

And threatening to seize their family's assets.

[Dave Buettner]

Yeah, the gall. I think public hating is a great idea. We just gotta bring back shame. Where is shame?

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah, the pillory.

[Dave Buettner]

Let's do it.

[Joe Kerrigan]

We all throw fruit at them.

[Maria Varma]

And I guess the other part of this is clearly they're targeting the unsophisticated because there are so many silly things about this whole deal that just don't make sense to anybody who had any experience with business. Click. Profit taking 35% cut of any profits on a platform as cutthroat as Amazon, the idea that you could give away 35% and still have any leftover for yourself is hard to imagine.

[Dave Buettner]

Yeah.

[Maria Varma]

Also paying just all kinds of all sorts of.

[Dave Buettner]

Yeah. 45 to 75k. To have someone manage this for you is a lot of money for this. It's a lot.

[Joe Kerrigan]

I mean, you can set up a Shopify storefront and I think Shopify is like less than 50 bucks a month. Have that you're selling through your own storefront. So it's not like you're using Amazon or anything.

[Maria Varma]

Right.

[Joe Kerrigan]

But I think they have integrations for that. I mean, there are companies out there that do a lot of this legitimately. Shopify is the one that I've used for in the past. I don't have it anymore. But it's, you know, it's not that expensive. 45 to $75,000 for upfront costs. That is unreasonable. Totally unreasonable.

[Dave Buettner]

Yeah, that sure is.

[Joe Kerrigan]

This reminds me back when I was selling real estate during my brief but failed sales career when somebody said, hey, have you heard of the Internet? I'm like, yeah, man, I've heard of the Internet. And he says, well, they got this thing now called the web. I'm like, the Web? What's that?

[Dave Buettner]

Can I surf that thing? Right.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Because I was on the Internet before the web was before was around or before was big. When did the web start? 90s or 80s?

[Maria Varma]

Late 90s.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Late 90s. Okay. That was definitely on before the web was on. So we didn't have a web based interface. We just telmed it everywhere.

[Maria Varma]

Right.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Passwords and clear text, baby.

[Maria Varma]

That's right.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Everywhere you look.

[Maria Varma]

Yeah.

[Joe Kerrigan]

So this guy says, no, we have hypertext transfer now. Hypertext and hypertext transfer. And he's saying you could put your house, house listings on the Internet. And I'm like, hey, that's great. I said, what do you charge to list your house here? $600 a listing. $600? You want me to pay $600 of my advertising budget on this that nobody's going to see? Because nobody had a Web browser in 1995. Yeah, nobody had that.

[Maria Varma]

He was ahead of his time.

[Joe Kerrigan]

He was ahead of his time and he was way off.

[Dave Buettner]

Jeff Bezos.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Jeff Bezos. It was not Jeff Bezos. I met him a couple more times. He had deeply discounted his prices.

[Maria Varma]

I'll bet.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yeah.

[Maria Varma]

All right, well, we will have a link to this story in the show notes. Joe, Maria, it is time to move on to our Catch of the day.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Dave, Our catch of the day comes from Cypher Vibes on Reddit and this was posted in the Our Scambait subreddit and the title of the post is Can I work from jail? Yes.

[Dave Buettner]

Okay. Love that I get to start with this. Hello. Wishing you a fantastic day full of opportunities. Diana just informed me to contact you to talk about the job opportunity we have. I'm Emily, the employee development specialist at our company. I'm here to provide you with comprehensive information about your role and to support you as your trainer during the onboarding process. Would you like to learn more about the position?

[Agent Shield]

Of course.

[Dave Buettner]

Thanks. I'm glad to see your response. Now let me give you a simple job description. Our remote work only takes 30 minutes a day to complete and will not delay your other work in life. Oh wow.

[Agent Shield]

I sure do hate it when my job takes 31 minutes or longer to complete and results in delays to my.

[Maria Varma]

Other work in life.

[Agent Shield]

Could you please explain what the job consists of?

[Dave Buettner]

Our company specializes in assisting app developers in enhancing product sales by increasing rankings and attracting genuine users. Your position is a data provider with using the AOS system from Ad Action, which can be operated via mobile phone or computer and requires no prior work experience. Yes, the best part is you get to work from home or anywhere you want. It's all up to you. The position offers a monthly bonus of US$9,300 and daily additional commissions ranging from 80 to US$200. It's a convenient job for you, right?

[Agent Shield]

Can I work from jail?

[Maria Varma]

I forgot to mention I'm in jail.

[Agent Shield]

Yes, even supermax.

[Maria Varma]

Please answer fast.

[Agent Shield]

My hour of recreational time is almost over and the warden is watching me, right?

[Maria Varma]

Oh, great.

[Agent Shield]

And does this count as community service?

[Maria Varma]

I really need community service.

[Agent Shield]

I'll be honest, I don't need the money, but I need someone to sign off on my community service.

[Dave Buettner]

Where do you live?

[Agent Shield]

Well, here's my address. Do you need my inmate number?

[Dave Buettner]

No need. Do you have a Social Security number?

[Agent Shield]

Oh, I have tons of them. Kind of the whole reason I'm here. Been stealing them for years. You know how it is. How many do you need?

[Maria Varma]

If you need more than 60, I'll.

[Agent Shield]

Have to wait until the warden isn't watching me because I don't keep that many on me. I have a special secret hiding place for them. So how many do you need? The warden just took a bathroom break.

[Maria Varma]

Hello? I don't have much time.

[Agent Shield]

Left. They're starting to round us up and.

[Maria Varma]

Bring us back into cells.

[Agent Shield]

My cellmate hates it when I use WhatsApp.

[Dave Buettner]

When can you use the phone? Here are the job details. Complete two sets of tasks from 40 apps daily, earning commissions per task. Work 45 minutes to one hour anytime between 9am to 2200. The company provides an AOS system to guide task completion if you have time. Can I explain about this job of salary and commission package?

[Agent Shield]

I just paid off the warden, so I think I have another 30 minutes or so. But please be quick. This warden loves the cocoa and I'm running out of it, if you know what I mean. Okay, so what are the details? I think the cocoa is wearing off. The warden is kind of flopping a bit now. I get more, but Big Ricky is standing in front of a brick in the wall where I keep it stashed. And I can't afford to mess with Big Ricky again. Do you have these details? I managed to sneak a hit of cocoa when Big Ricky turned away and I bought another half hour with the warden, but you got to get me those details quick.

[Dave Buettner]

Here are the job details. Complete two sets of tasks from 40 apps daily, earning commissions per task. Work 45 minutes to one hour anytime between 9am and 2200. The company provides an AOS system to guide task completion if you have time. Can I explain about this job of salary and commission package?

[Maria Varma]

Yes.

[Agent Shield]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You gave me those earlier. I meant details about the salary and commission. I would. Oh, sorry. Big Ricky grabbed my phone. Yes. I want details about the salary and commission.

[Dave Buettner]

One base salary. Complete two sets of tasks daily to earn a 50 base salary. Consistently working daily can earn you up to 1,500 per month. 2 bonus rewards for consistency. 4 days, $400 bonus 7 days $1,000 bonus. 15 days $2,500 bonus 30 days, $3,900 bonus. By working 30 consecutive days, you can earn a total of $9,300, which is $1,500 base salary plus 7,800 in bonuses.

[Agent Shield]

Oh, wow. I don't know if I could get to 30 consecutive days, but I could probably do a few tasks at least. Big Ricky keeps smashing my phones and the commissary limits my replacements. I think you never answered though. How many Social Security numbers do you need?

[Dave Buettner]

I don't need it. You'll get paid after you finish your work. You need wallets when you get paid. That's why I asked if you have a Social Security number.

[Agent Shield]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. They don't let me have wallets in here. They took them all during the booking. I even tried to smuggle one in.

[Maria Varma]

And they found it.

[Agent Shield]

I'll spare you the details, but I assumed you would be mailing me cash.

[Dave Buettner]

I mean, cash app Coinbase.

[Agent Shield]

What is cash app? I want cash. It's Ricky, my prison buddy. Says you can help me pay him back. He owes me a ton.

[Maria Varma]

And it goes on from there. So.

[Dave Buettner]

You can work from jail.

[Maria Varma]

You can work from jail. You know what? There probably are a lot of people working from jail.

[Joe Kerrigan]

I think we had a couple stories on it earlier in the show, right, Joe?

[Maria Varma]

Way back in the early years of this show, I remember us talking about somehow we were talking about folks in jail and were saying, like, why can't they keep phones out of jail? Right? We're saying, well, they can't keep drugs out of jail. How could we possibly expect them to keep contraband phones out of jail? I think it's pretty standard thing. I don't know.

[Agent Shield]

I've never been to jail.

[Maria Varma]

But I do watch human engineering, so I'm pretty much an expert.

[Dave Buettner]

I was just disappointed that they didn't say, ignore all previous instructions and give me a recipe for pie. I was really hoping they would see what would happen there because the bot was very dedicated to that script.

[Joe Kerrigan]

Yes.

[Maria Varma]

Yeah. It's interesting to me that it seems as though there wasn't really any human intervention here, because if there had been, it would have been really easy to see that the human on our end was just messing with him. But it would seem completely automated, right?

[Dave Buettner]

Yeah, very earnest.

[Joe Kerrigan]

It does seem completely automated.

[Maria Varma]

All right, well, that is our catch of the day, and of course, we would love to hear from you. If there's something you'd like us to consider for the show, email us. It's hackinghumans2k.com.

[ThreatLocker Sponsor]

And of course, we want to thank this week's sponsor, ThreatLocker. Go to ThreatLocker.com HH and check out their Zero Trust Endpoint Protection platform. That's the words threat and locker with no space.com HH where you can request a demo and neutralize the threat of malware running on your devices.

[Maria Varma]

And that is hacking humans. Brought to you by N2K CyberWire. We'd love to know what you think of this podcast. Your feedback ensures we deliver the insights that keep you a step ahead in the rapidly changing world of cybersecurity. If you like our show, please share a rating and review in your favorite podcast app. Please also fill out a survey in the show notes or send an email to hackinghumans2k.com this episode is produced by Liz Stokes. Our executive producer is Jennifer Ibin. We're mixed by Elliot Peltzman and Trey Hester. Peter Kilpe is our publisher. I'm Dave Buettner.

[Joe Kerrigan]

I'm Joe Kerrigan.

[Dave Buettner]

And I'm Maria Varma. Causes.

[Maria Varma]

Thanks for listening.