Podcast Summary: Hacking Humans – “When Malware Goes Bump in the Night”

Podcast: Hacking Humans (N2K Networks)
Episode: When Malware Goes Bump in the Night
Date: October 7, 2025
Theme: Deception, Influence, and Social Engineering in Cyber Crime

Overview

In this Halloween-themed episode, the Hacking Humans team takes a lighthearted but deeply insightful journey through the spookiest stories in cyber crime history. They explore infamous malware—from Ghost Rat to Trickbot—and examine evolving social engineering tactics, AI-generated threats, and attacks on critical infrastructure. The conversation is peppered with personal anecdotes, historical asides, and a clear focus on the ongoing human element in cyber security. The tone is collegial, witty, and animated, with genuine concern evident for the real-world victims of digital deception.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ghost Rat: The Original “Haunted” Malware

• [03:29–08:21]
  • Origin: Ghost Rat appeared over a decade ago, initially linked to Chinese state actors, but has since spread widely.
  • Attribution Complexity: Once useful for attribution, now its ubiquity muddies the waters, with many disparate groups adopting it.
    • “Sometimes you have malware that starts off as belonging to a certain threat actor...but now I feel like that's not really the case anymore.” — A [04:54]
  • Functionality: Early RATs (Remote Access Trojans) like Ghost Rat could log keystrokes, capture screens, activate webcams—leaving victims “haunted” and unaware.
    • “Anything coming out of China back in those days was predominantly nation state. So that's kind of how Ghost Rat became associated with PLA actors at the time.” — C [06:52]
  • Evolution: Variants (e.g., Sugar Ghost Rat) add custom features; still mainly seen in campaigns by Chinese-speaking actors, but proliferates in the broader crime ecosystem.

2. The Creeper and Malware’s Historical Roots

• [09:38–12:44]
  • The Creeper Worm (1972): The first computer worm, an experiment on ARPANET, left no damage—just the message: “I’m the Creeper. Catch me if you can.”
    • “It was used as an experiment, but it wasn’t designed to do any actual harm.” — C [09:38]
  • Anti-Virus Origins: The ‘Reaper’ program was created specifically to remove Creeper—thus launching a timeless malware–anti-malware cycle.
  • Human Element: Stories like the Cuckoo’s Egg (Cliff Stoll) highlight how perceived anomalies (a phone bill discrepancy) led to root cause investigation and wider change.

3. Research Projects, AI Malware, and the Blurring Line

• [12:44–14:19]
  • Prompt Lock Ransomware: Sometimes, “malware” in the wild is born from academic research, as with an AI-generated ransomware project by NYU, sparking panic before being debunked.
    • “We still have scary research projects that creep up and confuse people.” — A [12:44]
  • Future Fears: Concerns mount over the potential for AI-powered toolkits to automate malware development.
    • “That’s one of our big fears going forward with AI—are threat actors going to abuse AI for malicious purposes?” — C [13:34]

4. Infamous Worms: Morris and ILOVEYOU

• [14:19–16:21]
  • Morris Worm (1988): Crashed 10% of internet-connected systems; led to the first Computer Fraud and Abuse Act conviction.
  • ILOVEYOU (2000): Massively impactful email worm disguised as a love letter, costing billions.
  • Perspective: Slow dial-up connections once acted as a bottleneck to malware spread—now, scale and speed amplify impact.

5. The Timelessness and Real-World Stakes of Social Engineering

• [18:20–22:44]
  • Societal History: “Social engineering” isn’t new; whether ancient marketplaces or internet scams, manipulating trust is perennial.
    • “There has always been a threat of social engineering. And I think that that is baked into human nature.” — A [18:20]
  • Pig Butchering: Modern scams exploit human emotion through romance and crypto fraud, targeting the vulnerable—especially older adults—with devastating results.
    • “It's a fundamentally social engineering based thing...to manipulate people, hack your brain, hack your emotions, into sending money.” — A [19:46]
    • “It's just heartbreaking...they'll push their family aside in pursuit of this fake romance...and can cost them their life savings.” — B [21:31]
    • “I talked to a friend...the person basically said, ‘Yeah, I know that’s probably not the case...but when I talk to that person, I feel good and I don't have anything else.’” — C [22:14]

6. Trickbot: Trick or Treat for Cyber Criminals

• [23:11–25:33]
  • Origins: Launched in 2016 as a banking Trojan; evolved into a “Swiss army knife” of modules for multi-vector attacks.
  • Malware as a Service: Enabled widespread infection and persistent foothold in millions of devices; eventually disrupted by joint industry/government actions.
  • Organized Crime Links: Operators ran side businesses for money laundering, blurring lines between technical and traditional criminality.

7. Stellarium: From Empty Threat to Automated Sextortion

• [25:42–30:14]
  • Functionality: Takes webcam photos when adult content is detected, then auto-matches and blackmails with real, not hypothetical, evidence.
    • “It's not just looking for your banking credentials...but also with the addition of the sensitive adult content, personal information that adds an additional layer of absolute disgusting capabilities.” — A [29:10]
  • Open-Source Dilemma: Originally shared on GitHub “for educational purposes”—since removed.
  • Ethics of Publication: Mockery of criminals’ disclaimers, questioning the rationale of hiding behind “research” banners.

8. Trick-or-Treating as Social Engineering?

• [32:12–34:39]
  • Lively, humorous examination of Halloween customs as early social engineering practice. Hosts share neighborhood strategies for avoiding “tricks” and maximizing community goodwill.

9. Malware’s Real-World Impact: TRISIS, Critical Infrastructure, and “Acts of War”

• [34:47–43:20]
  • TRISIS (2017): Targeted safety systems at Saudi oil/gas facilities—potential for catastrophic disruption if deployed.
    • “Targeting safety equipment is particularly heinous because it could have very, very bad impacts.” — A [35:13]
  • ICS (Industrial Control Systems): Attacks on critical systems (notPetya, BlackEnergy) highlight increasing risk of malware with physical effects: from chemical plants to hospitals.
  • Motivation & Deterrence: Nation-states have skills to infiltrate complex OT, but fear of escalation and retaliation holds back wide-scale attacks. Criminals typically prefer financial gain with less scrutiny.
    • “Criminals...want their money and want to blend a little more in the background. From a nation state standpoint, if they do something like that, that is an act of war.” — C [39:27]
  • Ethics in Cyber Crime: Loss of “honor among thieves”—attacks against hospitals are “despicable.”
    • “Same thing, you know, like, we're not going to use chemical weapons. Okay, great. We're not going to attack hospitals. Because with cyber, why can't we get there?” — B [41:00]
    • “I think there should be...modern day piracy laws for these scum of the earth that do attack hospitals...because it's really no different [than piracy].” — C [42:48]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On attribution becoming meaningless:
  “Sometimes you have malware that starts off as belonging to a certain threat actor, or you can use malware for attribution...But now...a lot of that old school malware is used by a lot of different threat actors.” — A [04:54]

• On the first worm:
  “All the Creeper did was write, ‘I'm the Creeper. Catch me if you can.’ But all the data was left untouched.” — C [09:38]

• On social engineering timelessness:
  “No matter the era...there has always been a threat of social engineering. And I think that's baked into human nature. Regardless of the tools…and that is spooky.” — A [18:20]

• On pig butchering's human cost:
  “You really believe that Keanu Reeves is getting ready to marry them, and they’ll lose touch with their family...It really is heartbreaking.” — B [21:31]

• On Trickbot's bizarre operations:
  “They actually ran a film distribution company...legitimately distributing Russian films as a way to launder their money. He wanted to make a movie about himself.” — C [25:05]

• On Stellarium's escalation:
  “It's taking that thing that was an empty threat and making it real.” — B [27:09]

• Pirate joke highlight:
  “What is a pirate's favorite letter? R. You'd think it'd be R, but it's actually the C.” — B [43:35]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:29] – Ghost Rat history and attribution
• [09:38] – Creeper worm and anti-virus origins
• [12:44] – AI-driven research malware and Prompt Lock
• [14:19] – Morris and ILOVEYOU worms
• [18:20] – The enduring threat of social engineering
• [19:41] – Pig butchering / romance scams, emotional exploitation
• [23:11] – Trickbot: modules, money laundering, and takedown
• [25:42] – Stellarium sextortion malware
• [32:12] – Trick-or-treating and social engineering as childhood practice
• [34:47] – TRISIS, critical infrastructure threats, and ICS incidents
• [41:00] – Discourse on ethics, acts of war, and what’s off limits

Closing Thoughts

The hosts close on the sobering note that, though tools and technology evolve, human vulnerability to deception and influence remains constant. Social engineering adapts even as specific malware strains fade or reappear. The most chilling developments blur the lines between technical innovation, organized crime, and real-world threats to life and safety. Continued vigilance, collective defense, and ethical boundaries (“no hacking hospitals!”) are essential if history’s “malware ghost stories” are to remain cautionary tales, not present-day nightmares.

Summary prepared for listeners seeking an in-depth, structured breakdown of episode content with major themes, memorable moments, and key takeaways. Skip the ads and jump straight to the chills, both historical and modern.