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- [00:01]
Ricky Enger
One of the most important discoveries you can make on your vision loss journey is finding out you're not alone in this episode. Mark Arneson, Christy Stearns and Cliff Hochberg join us to discuss an offering from Hadley for adjusting and coping together. I'm Ricky Enger and this is Hadley Presents.
- [00:23]
Mark Arneson
Ricky, it's great to be here today. My name is Mark Arneson and I am the director of the Donahoe center for Support here at Hadley. So I kind of oversee some of the emotional and social support programming that we do here. And with me today is Christy and Cliff. Welcome to the show, Christy.
- [00:40]
Cliff Hochberg
CLIFF hey there.
- [00:41]
Christy Stearns
Hi. Thanks for having me.
- [00:44]
Mark Arneson
So, Christy, do you mind introducing yourself and telling us a little bit about what you do here at Hadley?
- [00:48]
Christy Stearns
Sure, yeah. My name is Christy Stearns. I'm the clinical support specialist here, which means I spend a lot of time introducing people to Hadley and the many services we offer. And I'm also involved with a lot of the social and emotional programming here.
- [01:04]
Mark Arneson
That's great. And Cliff, thanks for joining us today. So I know we're going to spend some time talking about our adjusting and coping together support group today. That's what our episode's a little bit about. But maybe before we get there, Cliff, do you mind just introducing yourself a little bit and telling us a little bit about yourself?
- [01:19]
Cliff Hochberg
Sure. Hi, everybody. My name is Cliff Hochberg. I live in New Jersey. I did not have a visual impairment until I began to have one. It's nothing that I was it's not a genetic thing I was born with. It's something that came on upon me. So what I do in my spare time is I am a health coach. I was a chiropractor for 30 years, and when I helped myself, I ended up helping my patients rather, and then friends and family. And then about seven years ago, I closed my chiropractic doors just to do my health coaching. So I'm very aware of the importance of support and that's really one of the things that really attracted me to Hadley.
- [02:07]
Mark Arneson
That's great. Thanks for sharing, Cliff. So chiropractor for 30, is it 30 years, you said? Yeah, 30 years and now a life coach. That's wonderful. So you mentioned that you started experiencing vision loss a little bit later life. Do you mind just sharing a little bit about your vision loss and maybe a little bit about your story or what your kind of vision is kind of like right now? Cliff?
- [02:28]
Cliff Hochberg
Sure. I suffer from something called neovascular glaucoma, and it's relatively rare from What I understand, it affects about 3 to 5% of all the cases of glaucoma, which is a subset of vision loss in and of itself. So it is pretty rare. What happens is that my body will create excess blood vessels that shouldn't be forming in and around the drainage angles of the eye. So these blood vessels start to form, and what happens is they block the ability for the fluid to drain, and that causes an increase in pressure in the eye. So what happened was just from routine eye exams, it was determined that I had this. But it was managed quite well between eye drops and also getting injections into my eye. And they put in a medication that's. It's called an anti VEGF medication. And what that does, it stops these new unwanted blood vessels from growing. So I was getting these injections about every two months, and my doctor said, you know, there's really a better medication that's out there that we can give you, which is more durable, it's more effective, and, you know, you'll be able to go longer periods of time. Would you be open to trying that? I said, yeah, of course. So I got. I went for the other injection, and then it was coming right around two months when I would be getting my regular checkup and seeing how my. My pressure was doing. And so what happened was right around that time, I was coming in for my next injection and checkup that weekend. I had an appointment schedule on Monday. And that weekend I just started not seeing well. My vision was changing in my left eye. It looked like. Like there's a big smudge, like, on the window. I couldn't see through that smudge. And, and both eyes, you know, they are. It just. The quality really started changing and I got kind of got worried and I. I said, well, you know, maybe I have some kind of irritation to my cornea or something. I said, well, I'm going to see the doctor tomorrow. I'll go. We'll go in. And I went in, and instead of being between 10 and 21, it was in the 60s.
- [05:00]
Mark Arneson
Oh, my goodness.
- [05:02]
Cliff Hochberg
Yeah. And that's what the doctor and the staff said as well. And they said, what are you feeling? You know, what kind of symptoms do you have? And I said, nothing. They said, you should be having typically horrible headaches, you know, wanting to vomit. I mean, really, really, this is pretty extreme. Ultimately, what happened was that interim medication didn't do anything for me. So, in essence, what happened was I went two months without being treated. I ended up going to a eye emergency room in Philadelphia about an hour away, which blew my mind that there's actually an eye emergency room. But they said, really, ultimately you're going to be needing surgery. And within a couple of weeks I ended up getting shunts put in my eyes, one in each eye, which is, if you think about it, it's like a pressure release valve. So as the pressure would increase, these shunts would shunt out that extra fluid out of the inside of my eye and just let it drain into the, into my body really. So that was the surgical, medical, surgical treatment. And then the insurance company did approve that other medication, the other substance which they injected, which worked out great. And you know, right now I go about every three months or so with the injections and it works really, really well. Unfortunately, the damage to the optic nerves from that episode did permanent damage to my optic nerves, which left me with the vision loss that I have. I am not blind, but my, the quality of my vision is radically worsened. And that's, that's kind of what happened. So it was not anything that happened over the course of years. It happened really relatively quickly. And of course there was not much time emotionally even, you know, to, to react to this whole thing. And it was quite, quite a loss.
- [07:20]
Mark Arneson
Well, thanks for, thanks for sharing all that, Cliff. I really appreciate just hearing your story, Chrissy. As you know, you end up talking to quite a few folks who are turning to Hadley for help. We oftentimes hear that. I think you mentioned the emotional piece to it, Cliff, that sometimes that can be as challenging, if not more challenging than some of the day to day challenges that come with vision loss as well. One of the things that we wanted to do here at Hadley is we wanted to offer an opportunity or a space for folks to be able to share and talk about those difficult emotions that can come with vision loss. And so with our adjusting and coping together group, that was kind of the idea is to bring folks together who are kind of going through something similar and have an opportunity to talk with each other about how difficult this can be sometimes. And Christy, do you mind sharing a little bit more about our adjusting and coping together? And you know, you've done a lot of work in building this program and then also you're facilitating these groups as well. So do you want to share a little bit about, a little bit more detail about adjusting coping together, Christy?
- [08:19]
Christy Stearns
Absolutely. So the group is an eight week virtual support group that you can participate either by phone or by zoom. And it really just allows those adjusting to vision loss the chance to share with others who get it about the challenges and often difficult emotions that they feel related to their vision loss. Each week focuses on a specific emotion such as grief and loss. Maybe about giving up the car keys or some other loss that they've experienced due to vision loss. Also feeling lonely and isolated, things that set us off, causing anger and frustration, changes to relationships, also changes to self esteem and a couple of other topics. We also spend time within each group talking about coping skills to help get our members through these difficult emotions, like learning to recognize the feelings, having patience and self compassion, as well as communicating clearly and talking openly with others to help them.
- [09:19]
Mark Arneson
That's great. So Cliff, you've actually participated in one of our sessions, our eight week sessions. Was there something about the group or what was it about the group that you found interesting? Was, you know, how did you decide that this was something that you kind of wanted to be a part of?
- [09:31]
Cliff Hochberg
Well, Mark, like I mentioned before, as a, as a coach, myself as a health coach, I know the importance of support. It is really key. I mean that, that even support is baked into the work that I do. When I heard that Hadley had something like this, it kind of piqued my interest. And I had actually even been searching a little bit to find out if there were support groups around. I had gone to a low vision optometrist who had referred me to a visual occupational therapist. And I went to about four or five sessions with her. It was great. She gave me lots of resources. So I was looking, I was searching, I was hoping that there might be something around. And it's interesting too, because Elsa Zavoda, the visual occupational therapist, when I first met her, she gave me a packet of information which was all kinds of different resources. And I started going through those resources and using them one at a time. One of them being the New Jersey Commission for the Blind. They were wonderful. They sent someone out, mobility specialists teach me how to use a white cane when I need it. They sent someone else to help me with setting up my computer and my laptop and my iPad and all that. But the other thing that was in that packet was Hadley. And you know, I went for about four or five sessions to the occupational therapist and every time she would go, she hey, have you checked out Hadley yet? I said, no, you know, it's on my list. And then at one point I think I went to the website and I, I said, wow, this is a really incredible organization. Because I had never seen such a visually accessible website in anything that I've looked at in comparison to what you have. Eventually I did Delve into Hadley. I mean, I had, like, a voracious appetite when I started looking at the workshops. And, you know, so many. You guys offer so much information in a kind of like a low vision desert out there. But when I had heard and realized that you did offer support, I said, okay. I knew the importance of it. I said, this sounds really great. And I signed up, and that was great. And Christy was phenomenal. I mean, really wonderful woman who was able to facilitate, you know. And Christy, I think you. You have a degree in counseling, is that correct?
- [12:25]
Christy Stearns
I do, yes. Cliff. I'm a licensed professional counselor.
- [12:29]
Cliff Hochberg
Yeah. And this wasn't any kind of group therapy counseling. Really. What you did, you really gave us a space to share and to learn from each other and to experience the fact that we're not alone. And the topics that you had were wonderful. I found that it was a great group of people similar in age. Everybody had a different visual impairment. I mean, some much worse than me, but everybody. We all have our own journey. And sharing that and hearing everybody else's journey, it's very comforting.
- [13:12]
Mark Arneson
What'd you call it? The desert? Desert of resources or something?
- [13:15]
Christy Stearns
Low vision desert?
- [13:15]
Mark Arneson
Low vision desert, yeah.
- [13:17]
Cliff Hochberg
That's kind of what I view it as. Because unfortunately, no matter how good they are, your ophthalmologists, that's not their job, really. Their job is to manage you medically. And so my ophthalmology group contracts a company called Lumada Health. And my Lumada nurse said to me, by the way, do you know about Hadley? And I said, yes, I do. She goes, well, you know, she goes, I don't live far from there. And I went down to visit Hadley. And she goes, I can't tell you how impressed I was with everything they have to offer.
- [13:54]
Mark Arneson
That's nice to hear. Well, I'm glad you found us, Cliff. And I think part of what we're trying to do is just respond to folks and some of the challenges that we're hearing they're sharing with us. And I think that's where this group kind of came out of, was I think folks were having a difficult time finding a space where they could share with others about how challenging this is. But you did ask an interesting question about the idea of forming these groups. Christy, I don't know if. Can you share a little bit about kind of how that works, like, you know, getting these groups kind of formed together?
- [14:24]
Christy Stearns
Yeah, absolutely. So when our members like Cliff call and share, whether they're looking for emotional support or as we're just talking with Them, you know, learning how we can help them. Here at Hadley, we do have just a short screening tool that we use to help us get to know our members. And we take all of those factors into consideration and just kind of group people together in ways that we feel that they will, you know, benefit from, from one another, that they're in a place where they are looking for support, but also, you know, are willing to share about their. Their vision loss openly as well. And it's been really wonderful to see the. The group members come together openly, share about their challenges and the emotions and the feelings, often for the first time ever, and come to support each other. It's really wonderful to see the confidence that they've built just by learning that they're not alone in their vision loss.
- [15:24]
Mark Arneson
I am curious, going back to the group. So, Cliff, I know it's been a little bit of time since you participated in the group, but was there any of the topics that stood out to you in particular? I know that, Christy, I think you mentioned it's eight weeks and each week we're touching on a different topic related to vision loss, like anger and frustration or grief and loss or identity and self esteem and things like that. There anyone in particular, Cliff, that kind of stood out to you that you remember?
- [15:48]
Cliff Hochberg
Yeah, actually, there was. It's funny, Chris, I think the one you gave as an example before was probably the one that affected me the most, and that was talking about grief and loss. You know, when this hit me, it was pretty intense emotionally. I remember in the beginning, I mean, I had just a day where I would wake up and everything's fine. You know, when I was in bed, you know, then I open my eyes and turn the light on and I go, oh, my God, there it is. It, you know, it just doesn't go away. I look forward to going to sleep so that I didn't have to deal with this problem seeing. And then I'd wake up and I realized that, you know, there it is. And at times I would be really, really sad. I mean, I can remember one time sitting in the kitchen and just crying my eyes out. You know, I think with any major loss, there's grief. And, you know, I. I learned about grief, you know, back in. Way back in college, and I thought it was to be a stage that. Okay, you know, first you have. I don't remember what they were like anger or sadness. And you go through these different stages to acceptance. So I imagined that it was stages like that. But what was kind of confusing to me was that I would have days where I'm okay, I am accepting this pretty well. I'm coping. The anger isn't there. And then one day I'd wake up the next day, and there I am again, you know, feeling sad, depressed, angry. And I come to realize that it's really not a continuum. It's more like you can cycle in and out of these different. Which I didn't realize, but hearing. And that was an important one for me, because hearing that and hearing other people's stories made myself realize that I'm not alone. And it was normal to be going through that. And during Hadley, I had. I had seen. I said, you know, let me talk to a therapist as well. I never really been to therapy is. And I went to a therapist for really, a couple of visits. And she said, cliff, you know what? You. You're psychologically very healthy. She said, this is something that is going to be coming back and forth, and what you're doing with this group is probably one of the most important things. She goes as a therapist, psychotherapist. She said, I don't want to create a problem that is not there. She said, but the support that you're getting, that's really what you need, is wonderful, and that's going to help you. It's going to help everybody else in the group as well. And that was good to know. And the other might have even been the same session, what we spoke about, you know, the loss of not being able to drive. And. And that was a big one for me. I mean, really big, because when I first realized I wasn't going to drive, you know, I said to myself, how. How can that be? It broke all the norms that I had about being an independent adult. I'm also a musician, and, you know, I have gigs that I play, and I'm used to getting in my car and packing up my drums, driving to the gig. Well, I said to my wife, now you're also my roadie and my chauffeur. And she's wonderful. She's so. She's been so supportive. But that was. That was a big one, really, you know, and you don't realize, just throughout the day, you say, you know, I think I want to go out and, you know, get a cup of coffee at the. At a Starbucks or whatever. I just can't do that. I have to coordinate that with. With my wife or. Or, you know, catch up with a friend. There was so much about the. The driving piece that. What everybody shared and that topic. So I think the grief and Loss in the driving were the two biggies for me.
- [20:08]
Mark Arneson
Thank you for sharing all that, Cliff, and just being so open about some of the challenges, too. I appreciate how honest you are. We wanted to be really intentional in the topics that we were choosing for these eight weeks, because similar to your sharing about the challenges of not being able to drive, Cliff, we hear it from so many other people, too. Somebody I was talking to, I think when I asked them to just share about the moment, they decided they couldn't drive any other. She's like, oh, you want me to tell you what my trauma story was? The way that she put it? Think it's. It's one of those moments that is really defining for a lot of people.
- [20:41]
Cliff Hochberg
Yeah. And I. I think one of those big, defining moments also was when we realized that we didn't need that second car. It's like, wow, getting rid of that second car. I mean, that really was like the nail driving it right through. Because I said, okay, there it is. There's one car that was. Made it very, very clear that I can no longer drive.
- [21:06]
Christy Stearns
I agree, Cliff. I've heard that from many other members, too. It's like the loss of that physical property, too. Right. It's like that definition of, okay, we're really doing this. You know, maybe there's some hope if we still have the car in the driveway. Right. But once you. You get rid of it, it's. That's it. And I've heard that from other members as well.
- [21:28]
Cliff Hochberg
Now every cloud has a silver lining. So we don't have that much insurance that we were paying.
- [21:33]
Christy Stearns
Right.
- [21:34]
Cliff Hochberg
Exactly. I tend to, like, say, o, you know, what are the positives? You know, what choice do we have, really? Right. You know, I mean, that's the other thing, too. Christy. I don't know if this is. I heard that you're, like, 40% more likely to go into a deep depression.
- [21:52]
Christy Stearns
Yeah, that sounds about right.
- [21:53]
Cliff Hochberg
Yeah. That scared me, you know, and because that is not my nature, and when I had those brief episodes of, you know, the. The sadness from the experiencing the loss and the grief, when I realized that by utilizing a group like Hadley and the kind of support that you offered, that I could stave off the likelihood of getting into a depression, that was also very important to me.
- [22:24]
Christy Stearns
I think that brings up a really great point, Cliff. You know, another thing that one of my group members recently brought up to me within the last week or so, actually, they said, it's hard to be brave all of the time. And this group really gives our members the chance to let the walls down and let those feelings out with other people who just totally understand what they're going through. And again, they may not have the same vision diagnosis. They may not be exactly in the same place in their vision loss journey, but these sessions give them the opportunity to not have to be brave, which is kind of interesting because they are being very brave just by coming to the sessions, but it gives them the opportunity to let it all out and thereby avoid kind of keeping those feelings within themselves and like you said, slipping into something deeper and whether it's depression or anxiety. So that was a great point, and thank you for pointing that out.
- [23:28]
Cliff Hochberg
Yeah, you're welcome. And the other thing, too, which some of the listeners who are listening to this podcast, I hope that you're also taking advantage of the insight and sound bites. Is that the name of it?
- [23:44]
Mark Arneson
It is.
- [23:45]
Cliff Hochberg
Which is. Is wonderful. I mean, they're little snippets of people's stories. And just hearing, not even connecting with the individual speaking, but just hearing about what people are going through and how they can get through this and how they are getting through it is very, I don't know, freeing or, I don't really know the right word, but it is very, very helpful. I'll put it that way. And what I love about it is that you have. They're all there. You have them, and you can just listen to one after another. And whenever I might feel a little bit down, listening to somebody else's story is very reassuring that we can all get through this stuff.
- [24:31]
Mark Arneson
Yeah. And that's kind of the idea with the insights and sound bites. Right. It's like, in these difficult moments, what is it or who is it? That kind of helped me get through it. And so we do hear that as well, Cliff. Like, folks are calling us and letting us know. Wow. I really found some hope just by listening to this episode of this insights and Sound bites. And Christy, I know, also part of the opportunity for the group, really, we're trying to give an opportunity for folks to be in this safe space together and share about some of these difficult emotions that they're experiencing. But I think the other piece of this is taking away some of the ways to cope with some of these challenging emotions as well. I don't know if you want to talk a little bit about the idea. It's adjusting and coping together. Cliff, I'm also curious if there's anything that you took away from the group that. That you still kind of turn back to or find helpful now.
- [25:17]
Christy Stearns
Sure. Yeah. So as we are talking about and the members are sharing their various stories and challenges that arise from week to week or even if they've been in the past and just something that really sat with them and sharing about how they dealt with it at the time. You know, we have a portion of each group dedicated to talking about coping skills and really just reminding each other to be patient and have self compassion. But a lot of it is also, you know, just communicating needs clearly and talking and learning how to talk openly with others. And as we continue on in the group, that becomes more and more apparent. You could see, see, you know, people connecting with one another and sharing ideas and sharing, you know, what worked for them versus, you know, what might work in another situation and just helping them build confidence. Such a large loss can trigger lots of self confidence issues like, well, I used to be able to do this and now I can't do anything but, you know, breaking it down. And even if it's just the one thing that you can do in a day is that you get up out of bed, you know, that's a win, you know, that's a positive. You start from there and then you, you build from that space and then maybe, you know, a few days later you try something new. It really is, you know, so important just to encourage yourself and give yourself the pat on the back for what you can accomplish in the day, not what you can't accomplish anymore. Cliff, I don't know if that, that's something that you remember or if you felt like that was helpful.
- [27:03]
Cliff Hochberg
Yeah. You know, it's funny, I think back of the things that I remember, I've learned a lot from hearing what people shared, their coping skills and you know, I remember bringing. Any time I found something out there that could help other people, the fact that I could bring it to the group and have someone else learn about it. Christy, I felt bad. I always felt like I was, you know, giving you a list of things that you had to go research and, and, and send out to everybody.
- [27:35]
Christy Stearns
No, no, it was wonderful and it is nice to have those resources that, you know, maybe we don't know about or it was a nice reminder like, oh, yeah, that that's something that I should point out or that's something that everyone would benefit from. And you were, you were wonderful.
- [27:51]
Cliff Hochberg
Thank you. But I think the, the overriding thing was really just connecting to the community. The knowing the, connecting to the, to other people who are going through this. I think it was Maya Angelou. She said people will forget what you said. They'll forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. And I think that's really what I got out of this. The feeling of connection and the feeling of everything's going to be okay going forward and we can all get through it.
- [28:24]
Christy Stearns
It is really. And just remembering that they're not alone and that every week the members show up and hear from one another, no matter what they're going through and supporting one another and just really that sense of community, like Cliff said, and just support from each other, that's great.
- [28:44]
Mark Arneson
So, Christy, if somebody listening wants to learn more about how to get involved or participate in the group, can you tell us a little bit about how they would go about doing that?
- [28:53]
Christy Stearns
Sure, yeah. They are welcome to call our center for support and speak with our team there. And again, we talk with them about the group itself and what they can expect. And we go through just a brief getting to know you screen and they can reach us at our 800 number, 800-323-4238. And then once we have their information, they can expect to receive a call back once our next group begins.
- [29:28]
Mark Arneson
Well, Cliff, thank you so much for spending some time with us here today and Christy, too. We're excited about the group and I think there's a lot of folks that are finding some help through participating in these groups. So I just appreciate you sharing your story and just joining us here today.
- [29:43]
Cliff Hochberg
My pleasure. I hope that the listeners will take advantage of what you have to offer, everything that Hadley has to offer, but especially the script.
- [29:52]
Mark Arneson
Thank you so much for this conversation today. I really appreciate it.
- [29:55]
Ricky Enger
Yeah, absolutely. I just want to thank all of you, Christy, Cliff, Mark, for dropping by and chatting about this program, for sharing all of these wonderful things. And if you're listening and you want to get involved, maybe you want to learn more or hope that you can join a group like this, please do give us a call. That's 800-323-4238. And ask about adjusting and coping together. Thanks so much for listening. Got something to say? Share your thoughts about this episode of Hadley Presents or make suggestions for future episodes. We'd love to hear from you. Send us an email at podcast@hadleyhelps.org. that's P O D C A S T at hadleyhelps. Org or leave us a message at 847-784-2870. Thanks for listening.