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- [00:01]
Ricky Enger
Glasses. They can help block out light or help us see things more clearly. Turns out there's some glasses that do a whole lot more. In this episode, we discuss exciting wearable options, including products from Envision, AI and Meta. I'm Ricky Enger, and this is Hadley Presents. Welcome to the show, everyone. We've got Doug Walker here.
- [00:24]
Doug Walker
All right, great to be here.
- [00:26]
Ricky Enger
And we have Lisa Sellinger.
- [00:28]
Lisa Sellinger
Hello.
- [00:29]
Ricky Enger
So great to have you both. So today we're actually talking about glasses. And, oh, my goodness, have glasses ever become a thing? We get so many calls about glasses, which seems very surprising because, as I said in the intro, you would think about glasses as just this simple little device that you put on your face, and it doesn't really do much other than its intended purpose. But with the last couple of years of AI making its way into things and cameras getting smaller and batteries getting smaller, allowing some glasses to do way more than they could before, we have some really exciting things to talk about. So I'm so glad you could join us. And I think where I want to start, actually, is, Lisa. We've had conversations before, and you've made a really good point that will sort of set the stage here. And that is, what do we think of when we hear glasses? What's that first impression that pops into people's minds?
- [01:40]
Lisa Sellinger
Well, I think that what most people think of first with glasses is sight. And I know of some people who've been really disappointed because they got some kind of smart glasses and they couldn't see any better. But people want the illusion, even of sight. And by putting them on your face, by putting them where your eyes would look at an object, it does make it convenient. But it's important to remember that they will not add to or enhance any sight that you have. But again, the good part of that is if you don't have any sight or you have very little sight, you can still use these. You are not excluded from using them.
- [02:27]
Ricky Enger
Yeah, that's a really good point. So glasses, in some cases, does not equal vision. It's really just talking about the form factor as opposed to how it actually works. Now, I should say that there are some glasses out there that will help to enhance your remaining vision. So even esight has a pair called the esight Go. There is acesight. They have an option. There's a company called Siva Seva. They have the Siva vision glasses. So, yeah, there are definitely some things out there that will help in that respect. You can zoom in on things. You can change your contrast. You can do Some distance viewing, things like that, but we're not really going to talk much about those today. We're going to focus on the options that you're, you're getting your info through audio, right? So the glasses are talking to you, you're talking back to the glasses. It's a really cool way to interface with these things. So for any of these glasses, any of these products that we're talking about today, we are really just here to share opinions. So none of this is, you know, we don't have partnerships with these companies, we don't get demo units to review or anything like that. This is just us. We have decided to purchase the products and see how they work out in our daily lives. And we're just going to share those experiences and those things that we've found in the process of using them. There are some really cool options in this kind of audio glasses, space or area or whatever. And I think more and more people are entering this market all the time, which is really awesome because the more people who are developing these things, the more features we're likely to get. So there are the Celeste glasses and that is a, you get the hardware, you get the glasses and then you, you pay a software subscription each month for the features that they're offering. There is the ARX Vision glasses, there's a couple more out there. And of course we'll have links to all of these things in the show notes. We do have a couple that we're gonna take, I guess a deeper dive into today. And it turns out that all three of us have this first set that we're gonna talk about today, which is the glass meta. And the price for These begins at $299. Now it's important to note that there are differently priced pairs of meta glasses, but the difference is only cosmetic, right? So they all have the same features. But certain lenses, certain styles may cost a little more. I don't know if it's because they're more rare or it costs more to make them or whatever, but, but I think it will be interesting to see what each of us decided on for our glasses. It's probably maybe the least important part of it, but it's still fascinating to me. So I have the Skyler glasses, which these are cat's eye shaped frames and I chose the shiny black with blue lenses so they're clear inside and then I think they become blue outside. I don't know, I've never seen them do this. But when people look at me wearing them inside the lenses look clear, but they're labeled as cerulean, so I think they must turn blue outside. So what I'm going to do is, rather than my spending a lot of time talking about these, I'm more curious to see what both of you think. So, Lisa, we'll start with you and tell us which frames you have and then just some things you really appreciated about the glasses and then maybe something you thought they would do, but it turns out they really don't do that well.
- [06:43]
Lisa Sellinger
So I got the Wayfarer glasses, and some people seem to simplify things and say Wayfarers are for men and Skylers are for women. Not necessarily. It seems that people are choosing the Wayfarer people of both genders because they are kind of a square glasses. My face tends to be a little bit round, and so I thought that the square shape would better complement my face shape. I got matte black with graphite, which is like a gray. And apparently none of the colors are really out there. And, you know, strong colors, apparently, they're. They're pretty muted, and I didn't know that, but I thought, you know, I didn't want something that might clash with something I was wearing. So instead of going for making a style statement, I chose to be a little boring and sort of just blend, you know, so. Goodness. There are so many things I like about the glasses. I really didn't think I would care about Hands Free, because I could use a lot of the scanning apps with my phone pretty well. Well, turns out I really like Hands Free. It's super convenient. You don't have to juggle. It's just easier. And if, you know you're going to be asking about your environment, you can put the glasses on and then you're just kind of speaking. You don't have to fish out your phone or do this or do that. It's very simple.
- [08:35]
Ricky Enger
So what you're doing is just to describe things a little bit. There is a camera in your glasses, and you're able to ask questions that are then answered by audio. Right?
- [08:47]
Lisa Sellinger
Right. One of the best applications I found this for is identifying food. All my cabinets in my apartment are very high. I am also short, so I could leave my cabinet doors open and not even walk into them. So when I want cans, I've got to get on a step stool, get them down. I usually would take a bunch over to the table, read them with one app or another, and then label them or organize them and put them back. But with the meta glasses, I can just stand on the Stool and pick one up and say, tell me what this is. Tell me what this is. And it's just really fast. I appreciate the fact that it will describe your area. It will tell you, for example, if you're in a parking lot, what signs it can see. One thing that many people don't seem to like about the glasses is that the responses are very short. So if I ask it to describe my living room, it's going to say, you know, there's a chair, a love seat, an entertainment center, a desk. But I really like that because then I can drill down and I can say, for example, is the TV on? Which sounds like a silly thing to ask, glasses. But some of the smart TVs can be in this suspended state where it's on but you don't know it. So that can be very helpful. You know, you can. You can drill down. You could ask what color is the love seat is. You know, what colors are the pillows on the loveseat, that kind of thing. The thing I don't like, it seems like a little bit of privacy overkill, is that it won't describe people. And also it won't usually read bottles of medicine. I did get it one time to identify a bottle of Tylenol, but usually you can't get it to do that.
- [10:55]
Ricky Enger
Yeah, I guess it's a little hesitant to possibly tell you something that has to do with something medical because it's afraid, oh, you know, the. The AI may not have gotten that right. And boy, would that be. I too, am not a big fan of the fact that it can't describe people. I was hoping. One of the first things I did with the glasses, and I don't really know why, I think I just wanted a better description of them on my face. So I stood in the. In front of the mirror and asked it to describe what it saw, and it wouldn't do it. So it couldn't describe, you know, the shape of my glasses and the color of them or whatever, because it was on a human face and it didn't want to give info about that.
- [11:49]
Lisa Sellinger
We probably should mention that if it's not an iPhone or Android, it's not going to work. Because you do need an app.
- [11:59]
Ricky Enger
Yes, great point. The metaview app is required for interfacing with these glasses.
- [12:06]
Lisa Sellinger
One thing that made me very happy, though, is that Facebook is not required. You. Even though Meta is Facebook, you do not need a Facebook account.
- [12:15]
Ricky Enger
Exactly. So, Doug, how about you? What frames did you get and what lenses? And I'm asking because I Think you actually had a bit of a journey with this, didn't you?
- [12:26]
Doug Walker
I did. I went around and around with this. So I, too, have the black wafer glasses, and I guess I'm told that's just your traditional Ray Ban sunglasses. And you're right. At first I purchased, like, the. The dark green sunglasses, but didn't take me long to realize I made a mistake on that because I do have some remaining vision, and I really wanted to be able to see through them and use them inside. And they were the sunglasses. So these were just way too dark for me to use when I was indoors. So I sent those back and ended up getting the black wayfarer glasses with the transition lenses instead. That way, you know, I can use them both inside as well as outside when I want sunglasses on. And I love them. Absolutely love them. I think we all do. I use them a lot, of course. They take great pictures and video, which is nice. And I love to listen to my music and my podcasts through those. I mean, they have surprisingly good speakers on them. I've been impressed with that. Like Lisa, I use them for recognizing objects and items around the house, too. I've found that. And I like the. The short descriptions it gives as well. And when I'm in a store, I'll use them to read price tags and to, of course, describe the different products and to even look at the sizes on clothing. You know, I've used it a lot for that. Yeah. But probably my favorite thing that I use them for is to use them for scanning a menu in a restaurant. To me, that's just the best. I love doing that. Like saying, what's the chicken on the menu? And it jumps right to that. That's really nice. I also love that they changed the prompt recently for having your glasses take a picture and then have it described to you. You used to have to say they met a look and before you gave your prompt. And now you can just say different phrases like, you know, what am I holding? Or what am I looking at? Or what's out the window? Or what do you see on the tv? And it narrows it down to just. It doesn't describe the background. It just narrows down to what you're holding if you ask that. So it's really nice that they've changed that prompt. It just makes it a lot more conversational. Now, something I wish it would do better is read an entire document. I've tried all kinds of prompts, but it always seems to want to summarize that page instead of reading the whole page. So I really wish it would do a better job at that. But you never know. Maybe it'll get better at reading, you know, an entire page in a future update, because they are changing things. So. Yeah, there you go.
- [15:23]
Ricky Enger
Yeah. And they really are improving things all the time. And I think where we started is not where we'll be even in six months or so. This actually makes a really good transition for me because what I wanted to talk about is I won't talk too much about the Meta glasses because I think you all have done a really great job covering that. But one of my favorite things is that ability to listen to music or listen to what's around me with my ears open and still have that really good audio coming from the glasses. But one of the things I am not the biggest fan of is you can't get them to read something from top to bottom or read it verbatim. And so the glasses that I want to talk about are the Envision glasses. These are about $2,500 and they were around well before Meta came out. And the thing about these is that they are made specifically for blind and low vision people. So certain features have really been thought about in a way that Meta just has not yet. One of those features is how do I read what's in front of me? And so while Meta may give you a summary of what the text is in vision, if you use this scanned document feature, it will not only read that text exactly because it is using sort of a different technology rather than AI to figure that out, it's using pattern recognition or we call it ocr. So it's reading what is really there instead of maybe taking some guesses as to what is there. And it will also guide you in how to position your head for, you know, you might want to move the document up so we can get a better view of it or move it to the right or whatever that. Very nice. There are features that InVision has that meta doesn't have yet. For example, the ability to call AIRA in a straightforward way. So AIRA is the service where you can have a person who is paid to look through your camera and give you information about what's being seen, what's visually apparent there. And it's a really useful service and it's nice to have this in a. In a head mounted thing. Although, having said that, Meta is working on partnerships. They've announced a partnership with Be My Eyes where volunteers. So these aren't trained agents, but they are volunteers who are going to do that. They'll look through the camera and answer whatever questions you give them. And AIRA now has a beta that will allow you to do the same thing. It's not quite so straightforward, but it is. You know, it exists. And we can. We can only assume things get better over time. The last thing I want to mention, and we haven't touched on this so much, is that as good as the AI is in the Meta glasses, it is still AI, which means that it is. Can be prone to what we call hallucinations, where it is, again, guessing at things. And so it may tell you that, oh, yeah, there's absolutely chicken a la king on the menu, when in fact, there isn't. So that's just one of those things about AI that we have to keep in mind and be aware of. Lisa, you told us, funny story that. Why don't you talk about how Meta recognizes currency?
- [19:31]
Lisa Sellinger
Well, usually it does pretty well, but it did tell a friend of mine that he was holding a $7 bill. It's not always clear if it's giving you information from what's in front of you or from the cloud or the great beyond. I had a box of Boca burgers, which are like veggie burgers. And so I was curious and I pulled them out and I asked the glasses what they were, and it said, a box of burgers. And I said, how much protein is in one? And they said, the average burger contains between 11 and 14 grams of protein. And I thought, that's not usually how package directions work. So I flipped it over and I asked it again what it was, and it said, this is a box of Boca burgers. So this time it gave me the. And when I said, how much protein is in one? It said, One Boca Burger contains 14 grams. So you really kind of have to keep your ear on that, the context and how you get from one question to another to know kind of where your information is coming from.
- [20:48]
Ricky Enger
Yeah, great point. So there is so much to talk about here, and we've. We've covered a lot, but there's still yet more to cover. I'm wondering, though, is there any last thing that people should consider if they're thinking about getting one of these pairs of smart glasses? Anything people should know. Doug, we'll start with you.
- [21:12]
Doug Walker
Yeah. And, you know, I think, Ricky, you mentioned this earlier, but I think it's important to say again and again that, you know, we're still really in the early days of wearables, and for wearables like these. And so we are at the first beginning stages. So even though they may not do what you want them to do, they're only going to get better over time. So, you know, for me, the future of wearables like this is super exciting. I love having my hands free like we've talked about. And, you know, I can't wait to see how these continue to evolve for us.
- [21:48]
Ricky Enger
Yeah, I think you're right. I think it can only get better. And the more people who decide to jump into the market, well, the more options you have. Right. Lisa, how about you?
- [21:59]
Lisa Sellinger
One question I've gotten a lot is, well, when should I take the plunge? It seems like they're always coming out with new stuff. Well, I think sometimes it's just Murphy's law of new stuff, that when you get something, something else is going to come out the next day or the next week that seems better if you focus on, is this going to help me? Is this going to do what I need it to do? If your answer is yes, then it might be time to consider the other thing with all of these is, you know, we talked about the $7 bill, and I've heard lots of crazy things that AI says, and I really think that you have to consider this sort of an adventure or a game and approach it with a sense of playful curiosity. You know, this response didn't work. How can I say it? That will get me the information I need. Or maybe it's, I always forget to turn on the lights. And no wonder it's giving me such horrible results because my room is almost pitch black. So, you know, I think it's just important to have that spirit about it where you're. You're learning.
- [23:15]
Ricky Enger
That is absolutely true. I think it can certainly cut down on a lot of frustration if maybe you expect bumps in the road and you look at those as opportunities to exercise that curiosity or that creativity of like, you were talking about the medicine bottle, you eventually figured your way around that and made it identify something for you. I think what I would say about all of these wearables is really the same thing. You all have said, we're just getting started with these, and the future is going to be really, really interesting. Because I know that Meta, for example, was never thinking about people who are blind or low vision using their product. They had designed them for streaming video to Facebook or Instagram, which you certainly can do, by the way, or recording video and recording really good video or taking pictures. They never thought that the AI in these would be used for something other than just a traditional smart assistant or to help you come up with a creative caption for your Instagram post. Now that they see people are using these in really interesting ways, I think they're open to more partnerships and figuring out ways that this can be useful to in different ways than they initially intended. And then for those glasses that are being made specifically with blind and low vision people in mind, there's more and more technology available, meaning that the features that could be available on these glasses for lighter, faster, cheaper, better is only going to grow. So I think it's exciting times for sure. Well, I want to thank you both so much for stopping by and chatting about glasses with us. We will have links to all of these in the show notes and we'll also encourage you to if you have questions, can the glasses do this? Will the glasses do that? We're happy to chat with with you and answer any questions that you might have. So contact us at Hadley and we'll be glad to walk you through some things. That's going to do it for the conversation portion of today's episode, but if you'd like to hear a couple of these smart glasses in action, stick around for a short demo.
- [26:00]
Unnamed Speaker
After all the great discussion about Meta and Envision glasses, let's take them for a spin in some real world situations.
- [26:07]
Ricky Enger
And see how they work.
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Unnamed Speaker
Come up with three scenarios that people are likely to try and use these glasses in, so let's see how they perform with those tasks. First up, we'll read some text and.
- [26:21]
Ricky Enger
We'Ll start with Meta.
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Unnamed Speaker
Hey Meta, read what's in front of me.
- [26:31]
Meta Glasses
It appears to be a coupon or advertisement for Valpack.com offering up to 0% off on certain products. The ad features an image of various photo frames and suggests that it's easy to customize them with your own photos. There is also text encouraging you to Visit the website valpak.com for more savings opportunities.
- [26:50]
Unnamed Speaker
Hmm. Up to zero percent. Something tells me Meta didn't read that text exactly, so let's see if we.
- [26:58]
Ricky Enger
Can get it to do that.
- [27:01]
Unnamed Speaker
Hey Meta, read what's in front of me verbatim.
- [27:10]
Meta Glasses
Valpak More Savings Inside I feel like.
- [27:14]
Unnamed Speaker
We'Re still missing a lot of text, but Meta did give us enough info to tell what this piece of mail is and what we might want to do with it. All right, let's give invision a shot. We'll use the Scan Text feature, which is how InVision processes documents.
- [27:30]
InVision Glasses
Scan text, Move document Left Reader Shutterfly don't miss the magic. We make it extra easy to customize cards and gifts just in the nick of time. Up to 50% C inside for offer details 2 free 8x10 prints. Find more savings at valvepack.com, valvepack, and bullpak.com or register trademarks of ValPak Direct Marketing Systems, LLC. Copyright 2024 Velpa Directsta Visual Element Detected all text for the Visual Element is its a collection of personalized items, including a photo album, a keychain, a mug, and greeting cards. Each item features photographs of people and.
- [28:19]
Unnamed Speaker
A visual element description so Envision gave us exact text as well as a description of the image on the front of the envelope. All right, next up, let's see how our glasses do with identifying products. Hey Meta, look and tell me what product I'm holding.
- [28:42]
Meta Glasses
You are holding a can of Campbell's Roasted Garlic Mushroom Soup.
- [28:46]
Ricky Enger
Nice.
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Unnamed Speaker
That took no time at all. And this is actually one of the most challenging things to get right because cans are round and traditionally they are dipp difficult for text readers to make sense of. Let's see how InVision does since InVision doesn't have a specific product identification feature, we're going to use the short text feature to see if we can look at what's on the label.
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InVision Glasses
Instant Text PBLL Peanut Mushroom When Roasted.
- [29:17]
Unnamed Speaker
Garlic Soup and what we see is that in Vision, because it's relying on a more traditional text recognition for this, it's having problems reading the rounded can, but it still gives us just enough to figure out what we're holding. And finally, let's take our glasses outside and see how they do with describing a scene. It's a lovely sunny autumn afternoon and I'm really curious if the leaves have begun to change color in my backyard. Hey Meta, look and tell me what you see.
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Meta Glasses
I see a wooden deck or porch surrounded by trees and foliage. There is an enclosed section with screens possibly leading into the house.
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Unnamed Speaker
Are the leaves changing colors from green to something else?
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Meta Glasses
Yes, the leaves appear to be changing colors from green to yellow and possibly other shades of autumn. Hughes.
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Unnamed Speaker
And now let's find out if Envision says something different. It will give a very short description first, so we'll have to continue asking it questions.
- [30:36]
InVision Glasses
Screen porch overlooking a grassy backyard with trees and a wooden fence.
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Unnamed Speaker
Describe the trees in detail, including their colors.
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InVision Glasses
The image shows trees with a variety of green hues. Some of the leaves are light green, indicating new growth, while others have a darker green shade. There are touches of yellow in some leaves, suggesting seasonal changes. The trees are lush and full, creating a dense foliage backdrop so it seems.
- [31:02]
Unnamed Speaker
Both pairs of glasses agree that we're just now starting to see changes in our leaf colors, and we can continue asking questions all day and getting additional descriptions of the scene. And the best part is, the glasses are never going to say, haven't you had enough already?
- [31:21]
Ricky Enger
So there you go. There is a relatively quick demo of how these glasses work in the real world, and it might help to give you an idea of how these could work in your own environment. Thanks so much for listening. Got something to say? Share your thoughts about this episode of Hadley Presents, or make suggestions for future episodes. We'd love to hear from you. Send us an email@podcastadleyhelps.org that's P O D C A S tadleyhelps.org or leave us a message at 847-784-2870. Thanks for listening.