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Maggie Robinson Katz (2:00)

The other way around. Whoa, this thing moves. Stop hitting snooze on new tech.

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Maggie Robinson Katz (2:08)

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Commercial Narrator / Advertiser (2:10)

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Elizabeth Melgar (2:21)

BBC Studios.

Maggie Robinson Katz (2:27)

Hey, I'm Maggie. Just a quick heads up before we start. The series does contain some descriptions of violence and deals with adult themes.

Detective Sean Kerris (2:40)

A bizarre murder has a Northwest Terrace county neighborhood on edge. A couple celebrating a wedding anniversary found tied up in Separate closets. The husband had been stabbed to death. Tonight, investigators have plenty of questions about this. And it happened as we see on the screen.

Tom (Tammy's husband) (2:53)

So we get the news on and I see the newscasts of Jim.

Maggie Robinson Katz (2:59)

When Tammy Armstrong switches on the evening news, she cannot believe what she's seeing.

Tom (Tammy's husband) (3:06)

And that's their house. That's their house. And I was scared to death.

Maggie Robinson Katz (3:11)

Her best friend Sandy Melgar's place is wrapped in police tape and swarming with cops.

Detective Sean Kerris (3:18)

And that's where Local 2's Andy Sirota.

Maggie Robinson Katz (3:20)

Is joining us live with the latest on this story.

Detective Sean Kerris (3:22)

Andy, Bill, residents in this quiet community still baffled over a bizarre mystery involving two of their neighbors.

Tom (Tammy's husband) (3:29)

And I just stepped screaming hysterically and crying, and Tom's turning it up louder and they said that he had been murdered in that house.

Maggie Robinson Katz (3:39)

Tammy and her husband Tom had been entertaining friends that evening after they'd seen the last of their guests out. They were ready to collapse on the sofa, but then their son in law called urging them to switch on the tv.

Tom (Tammy's husband) (3:55)

Then I just start screaming, where's Sandy? They're not saying a thing about Sandy. Where's Sandy? What happened to her? What did they do to her?

Maggie Robinson Katz (4:03)

Tammy rings Sandy's cell. No reply. She rings the house again. Nothing. She tries over and over. Next she rings around the hospitals in.

Tom (Tammy's husband) (4:16)

Houston and I called all of them. Then Tom called the police stations and the police station said, no, she's not here. But of course she was there.

Maggie Robinson Katz (4:25)

What Tom and Tammy don't know is that Sandy's phone has been taken into evidence while she's questioned by the police.

Tom (Tammy's husband) (4:32)

And so then we could do nothing, but I said, we'll stay dressed, we'll stay on top of the covers and just lay here and wait, saying prayers and crying and waiting to hear from my friend. Tom's phone rang about, I think four in the morning or something.

Maggie Robinson Katz (4:55)

They're both still awake, lying fully dressed on the bed.

Tom (Tammy's husband) (5:00)

He picks it up for a shrink and he goes, yes, just a minute. And he hands it to me. And Sandy's voice is so faint, she goes, Tammy? I said, yeah. And she goes, do you know? And I said, yes, I know, sweetie, I know. I said, where are you? And she goes, they brought me back here. I said, they who? She said, the police. And I said, you're at your house? And she goes, yes.

Maggie Robinson Katz (5:26)

The police dropped Sandy back at home at 3:45am on Christmas Eve.

Tom (Tammy's husband) (5:32)

And I said, we'll be right there. And she goes, okay. And she clicked off. And I told Tom, I said, I can't believe they took her back. She's at the house and so we jump in the car and we drive over there and get there.

Maggie Robinson Katz (5:48)

When Tammy and her husband arrive at the Melgar's house, they have to push their way through the mass of reporters and cameras gathered outside.

Detective Sean Kerris (5:57)

Friends and relatives say 52 year old Jaime Melgar had no enemies and tonight they are rallying around his brokenhearted widow.

Tom (Tammy's husband) (6:06)

Of course, you know, reporters in front. We go under the yellow tape and go in and Sandy sitting on our sofa and she's holding her dog, Lola, the Pomeranian. And she's so, so pale and her skin is so blanched and she can barely talk. And I said, sandy, have you had your medicine? I said, you're going to have a seizure. I said, and you're dry, you're dehydrated. I run and get a bottle of water out of the fridge. I hand her water. I said, where's your medicine honey? And she goes, and she couldn't tell me, so I start to go to her bedroom. She goes, don't go in there. And I said, I won't look.

Maggie Robinson Katz (6:45)

Jim's body was found in a closet connected to that bedroom.

Tom (Tammy's husband) (6:50)

He was gone. But the blood, I didn't see it, I wouldn't look. But Tom said it was, it was horrendous. All they had done was remove Jim. Lola had blood on her and fingerprinting stuff and all that was all over Lola. She's pure white and her puppies were crying and barking in the yard and Sandy was just sitting on the couch with hardly anything on, freezing, just sitting there shaking.

Maggie Robinson Katz (7:19)

Tammy searches through drawers for phenobarbital. That's Sandy's prescription anti seizure medication. She can't find any.

Tom (Tammy's husband) (7:27)

And I said, well, whoever did this obviously knew that phenobarbital is the drug take. And I said, because that's gone. She goes, oh, I had my full prescription.

Maggie Robinson Katz (7:39)

Tammy locates some tablets tucked away and gives one to Sandy.

Tom (Tammy's husband) (7:44)

And I just grabbed a couple things for her to put on and wrapped her in a blanket and we got the dogs and got her out of there.

Maggie Robinson Katz (7:54)

Tammy and Tom decide to take Sandy back to their house, hoping it will be a refuge from the crime scene. And from the pack of reporters, we're.

Detective Sean Kerris (8:01)

Just trying to get a statement. Sandra Melgar sought comfort today in the arms of a friend in the wake of her husband's bizarre murder.

Tom (Tammy's husband) (8:09)

And the lights, they start taking pictures and she just started shaking and shaking and I wrapped her tightly and threw the blanket even more over her head and we get her into the car and, you know, put her in the back, slam the door. And they're asking for statements.

Maggie Robinson Katz (8:25)

32 years was the anniversary.

Tom (Tammy's husband) (8:28)

They were celebrating it.

Maggie Robinson Katz (8:30)

That's Tammy. She's sitting in the front seat of the car, shielding her eyes from the glare of the cameras, her face twisted in anguish. All for viewers at home to see as journalists scramble around trying to question her and Sandy.

Detective Sean Kerris (8:46)

She was unable to speak from the backseat of this car where we saw her wrapped in a blanket, laying down.

Tom (Tammy's husband) (8:53)

And we left. And they said, where are you taking her? Where are you taking her?

Maggie Robinson Katz (8:57)

Back at her house, Tammy puts Sandy in a hot shower to warm up. She's freezing, freezing cold.

Tom (Tammy's husband) (9:04)

And she kept saying, I still smell it. I still smell it. And I said, what are you smelling, dear? She goes, the blood. So much blood, Tammy. So much blood. But when I was washing her hair for her, there was a bump, a big knot on her head. I said, sandy, we need to go to er. And I said, I don't know what they did to you. And she said, I can't. I can't. And she was crying and don't take me to another cold, hard place.

Maggie Robinson Katz (9:29)

So they try to get some rest.

Tom (Tammy's husband) (9:31)

Instead, I got her under the electric blanket and she slept with me. And Tom slept in the guest room and she stayed awake all night. She was crying, saying, how could they do this to him? How could they do this? And then she said, what am I going to do without him? He's everything. And I said, I know. Then at one point, all of a sudden, she goes, tammy, they think I did this. And I thought she was just babbling, you know, shock. I said, that's ridiculous. You were tied up. I said, no one would ever think that you did this. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. And I said, who thinks you did this? And she goes, the police.

Maggie Robinson Katz (10:22)

I'm Maggie Robinson Katz, and from BBC Studios and iHeart podcasts, this is Hands Tied. Episode three, Homecoming.

Commercial Narrator / Advertiser (10:38)

Honey is on the case. Focus Features invites you to Honey Don't. The coolest, sexiest, most scandalous murder mystery of the summer. In a small desert town full of odd folks with strange obsessions, a suspicious car crash sets off a series of deadly events. As the body count rises, private detective Honey o' Donohue finds herself at the center of a bizarre conspiracy where everyone has a se secret from Ethan Cohen, a director of no country for Old Men, and starring Margaret Qualley, Aubrey Plaza, Charlie Day and Chris Evans. Honey Don't. Written by Ethan Cohen and Trisha Cook. Rated R under 17. Not admitted without parent. In theaters everywhere tomorrow.

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Elizabeth Melgar (13:46)

This is Christmas Day. It was the 25th when we landed.

Maggie Robinson Katz (13:50)

By the time Liz and her husband land in Texas, her mom Sandy is already at Tammy's house and has already been quizzed by the police about her dad Jim's murder.

Elizabeth Melgar (14:00)

I think I was completely in shock the whole time. I mean, I broke down on the plane a few times and when I was picked up from the airport, I think that's when it hit me, but not entirely because I feel like I was in shock for years.

Maggie Robinson Katz (14:16)

A cousin picks them up at George Bush International Airport. And a wave of emotion and relief hits Liz because sitting in the backseat of the car is Sandy. After hours of frantic worrying about her mom, at least here she is. She's not in a good way though.

Elizabeth Melgar (14:36)

Yeah, my mom just like falls apart and she's got bruises all down her arms and asking her what happened and I mean, she was just bawling, she was just crying.

Maggie Robinson Katz (14:48)

They get back to Tammy's house, which has become the gathering place for all of Sandy's relatives and friends.

Elizabeth Melgar (14:54)

So I didn't flat out say what happened because I didn't want to make her talk about this right if she wasn't ready.

Maggie Robinson Katz (15:03)

Slowly, Sandy tells Liz what she remembers about the events leading up to Jim's death.

Elizabeth Melgar (15:09)

At that moment, I remember thinking, you're sitting in this bathtub, right, with a person that you think you're spending the rest of your life with. You're talking about what you're about to do now that he's retired, your plans, all this stuff, and then he gets up to go let the dogs in and the next thing you wake up and your whole life has been turned upside down. I just remember that thought going through my head over and over again.

Maggie Robinson Katz (15:36)

Sandy tells Liz about the police interview.

Elizabeth Melgar (15:39)

Didn't they take you to the hospital? No. You know, she thought she'd had a seizure. She had a bump on her head. She said that they had interrogated her, that they wanted her to do a lie detector test. She said, no, I'm too stressed and frazzled right now. I will not pass a lie detector test. It all felt very wrong.

Maggie Robinson Katz (16:03)

Liz's head is spinning. It's a lot to process. Her dad is dead and it seems like her mom is a suspect.

Elizabeth Melgar (16:13)

It's a lot. It's more than Most people can handle too much for one person.

Maggie Robinson Katz (16:19)

She's drained, exhausted, jet lagged, barely recovered from the miscarriage she's just had. But now that seems like an eternity ago. In these most desperate of circumstances, she turns to the person who she could always rely on to keep a cool head in a crisis, her dad.

Elizabeth Melgar (16:39)

My dad was always telling me how important it is not to get too emotional about things and to like, step back and separate yourself and try and look at things from this perspective that isn't emotional or biased.

Maggie Robinson Katz (16:53)

Like Jim, Liz isn't a panicker. So she channels his calm, logical brain. And there's her other superpower, those true crime books she obsessed over as a teenager, which led her to study neuroscience in England. Knowledge which she has stored up and can now put to use.

Elizabeth Melgar (17:13)

I was definitely already cynical about the police. I already was very distrusting of them. And you're taught to believe that they're going to help you, right? They're there to help you and they want to make sure you get justice or whatever bullshit that they tell you. But I have seen how they've treated other people. And then, you know, reading these, like true crime accounts where sometimes the police have released victims back into their killer's custody or, you know, usually they, they don't listen when it's somebody who is not white or, you know, who's not in authority. I don't know, there's just different circumstances, right. So I was very familiar with these types of interactions and we started from there.

Maggie Robinson Katz (18:06)

Liz swings into action. First she wants to find out how her dad died. So she tracks down a number for the medical examiner.

Elizabeth Melgar (18:16)

I remember calling the NE's office and trying to get some information and nothing. So I called the detective and they asked if they could come see me at Tom and Tammy's house. So I said okay.

Maggie Robinson Katz (18:39)

It's the day after Christmas 2012, and two detectives are outside Tom and Tammy's house in Houston.

Tom (Tammy's husband) (18:46)

They knock at our door, Sandy's in the back, and she immediately starts trembling and shaking.

Maggie Robinson Katz (18:52)

It's the same two detectives who interviewed Sandy, Deputy Carousel and Sergeant Doucet.

Tom (Tammy's husband) (19:00)

So I stay back there with her and I'm like, you don't have to go out. They'll be seen to the front room. You don't have to see them.

Maggie Robinson Katz (19:08)

But it's okay because they're not here to see Sandy. They're here to talk to Liz. Liz records the interview using a tablet she'd given her husband Anthony for Christmas. This was 2012. Tablets were woo, high tech and More than a decade later, Liz and I are in my hotel room in Wimbledon, London, listening back to that recording.

Detective Sean Kerris (19:30)

December 26, 2012. Case number 12176269. This is Sean Kerris with Harris County Homicide, 60 Henry 42. Also with me is my partner, Sergeant Doucet. And I'm gonna let the other two witnesses here identify themselves. Ma', am, can you identify yourself?

Elizabeth Melgar (19:48)

Elizabeth Melgar.

Detective Sean Kerris (19:50)

Okay. And this is your husband. Your name? Anthony Rose.

Maggie Robinson Katz (19:55)

Did they know that you were recording?

Elizabeth Melgar (19:57)

Yeah, I told them I was gonna record.

Maggie Robinson Katz (19:59)

If I was in your shoes, in that position, I don't think I would have the foresight to do that.

Elizabeth Melgar (20:03)

I really don't know what made me do it. I guess just like, mistrust and making sure that I remembered what we had said and what we had talked about, because I felt like I was in such shock that, you know, what if I forgot everything I had said and I forgot something important?

Detective Sean Kerris (20:20)

Have you spoken to your mother? What did your mother have to say?

Elizabeth Melgar (20:26)

She's just in complete shock. She has a hard time remembering things as it is because of the seizures. She's got a well documented history of lupus and epilepsy for the past 20 something years.

Detective Sean Kerris (20:36)

Okay.

Elizabeth Melgar (20:38)

And she basically just told me that the police. Well, she woke up and she was trying to sit up and get out of the closet, but she has had hip replacements and she has a lot of joint problems, so she really couldn't move. And she didn't know how long she had been there. So, I mean, she said that the police took her in. Well, they told my family that they were taking her to the hospital, and I spent hours calling hospitals trying to find her. And it turned out that they didn't take her there. They wouldn't give her her medication, and she was there for 12 hours. Stress brings on seizures and so does lack of sleep.

Detective Sean Kerris (21:11)

Okay.

Elizabeth Melgar (21:12)

So I was a bit worried about her health. She's in a quite fragile state right now.

Maggie Robinson Katz (21:18)

You sound so clear and so concise and so present.

Elizabeth Melgar (21:26)

I think I was probably just, like, angry that I had to deal with these idiots and angry at the way they had treated her.

Maggie Robinson Katz (21:34)

Time has not softened Liz's feelings towards the police.

Detective Sean Kerris (21:39)

You do know that we had EMS and all that check her out.

Elizabeth Melgar (21:42)

She still needs her medication.

Detective Sean Kerris (21:44)

Right. But the doctor and them that saw her there at the scene had cleared everything before we even spoke to her.

Elizabeth Melgar (21:51)

How can you clear if you don't understand?

Maggie Robinson Katz (21:53)

So I see you shaking your head.

Elizabeth Melgar (21:55)

Yeah, because he's saying there was a doctor on Scene. There was no doctor on Zoom.

Maggie Robinson Katz (21:58)

There were some EMTs on scene, emergency medical technicians.

Elizabeth Melgar (22:03)

EMTs aren't trained, you know, to deal with this sort of situation. They're not going to have her medication for her. They should have taken her to the hospital.

Maggie Robinson Katz (22:14)

Liz thinks that Sandy was in no fit state to decide for herself if she needed to go to the hospital. She should have been taken anyway.

Elizabeth Melgar (22:23)

She doesn't know what's going on. She's not thinking clearly. She should have never been in that room answering questions in that state and without a lawyer. Yeah, it was just. It was very frustrating because they were just lying to my face like I was this idiot who had no idea and that. Like I was just gonna buy it. And it was so insulting. It was so insulting. It just felt like adding insult to injury.

Detective Sean Kerris (22:47)

And you understand that we're not pointing fingers at anybody here, but we're trying to. We're trying to get as much information we can because it's either way. We have either. We're looking at a possible suspect entering the home, and we're trying to look at every. Any angle here in this investigation.

Elizabeth Melgar (23:03)

I just don't appreciate the way my mother was to trying treated like that. She was. I mean, she said that the police were basically were just saying, we know you did it. Was he abusive? Was he having an affair? Was this happening? Was that happening?

Detective Sean Kerris (23:15)

No. Here's the deal.

Maggie Robinson Katz (23:18)

I look at Liz and pause the recording.

Elizabeth Melgar (23:21)

I mean, he's. He's denying everything. And then you get to the interrogation footage and everything I've said is true.

Detective Sean Kerris (23:28)

Questions are asked. Okay? But you have to remember, and it's how somebody perceives the question. We have to know if somebody was out to hurt your father. Okay? The way you take that question is the way however you're going to take it. But that's our job. We have to figure out who killed him.

Elizabeth Melgar (23:48)

I think she. She probably had a seizure and that probably freaked out whoever was there. And maybe they thought they killed her by hitting her on the head. I don't know.

Detective Sean Kerris (23:55)

Well, I mean, that could be. That could be the case. And that's why I need to know, like, when her condition. And I'm not saying that she could black out and all that stuff, it could happen, but I need to know if she's ever going to remember it, because if she could ever remember a suspect, that's the best thing for me and him, because then we have a description and everything else. Right now, at this point, we have nothing.

Elizabeth Melgar (24:17)

I've been asking.

Detective Sean Kerris (24:18)

We're trying to solve the case and I'm trying to look for answers. Just that anything that could help us out because now we don't know. We know nothing and everybody is a suspect at a point.

Maggie Robinson Katz (24:31)

The police tell Liz they're keeping an open mind and that they need her help. They ask if she'll be going back to her parents house.

Detective Sean Kerris (24:40)

Do me a favor when you're there, get a tablet out, anything you think is missing because we need to start searching for the items that are missing. So somebody came in and stole it. If somebody come in and gonna steal stuff, if you have old tv, the manuals to them that has a serial number or anything like that to it, bring it all to us because we can start searching for those items. If they've been pawned, they've been sold.

Elizabeth Melgar (25:04)

My dad is so meticulous. He has all that. I'm sure he has all those things in his house somewhere.

Detective Sean Kerris (25:11)

And how your mother and father's relationship, how's it been? And this past. Right. Okay.

Tom (Tammy's husband) (25:16)

They've always.

Elizabeth Melgar (25:17)

I mean, they were just celebrating their 32nd wedding anniversary.

Podcast Host / Advertiser (25:20)

I mean.

Detective Sean Kerris (25:23)

Alrighty. It's 12:30. You mean it's gonna be the end of the day?

Maggie Robinson Katz (25:31)

The interview lasts 13 minutes. Any sort of final thoughts after replaying that whole thing?

Elizabeth Melgar (25:40)

I was probably like too nice and like accommodating and just letting them get away with the bullshit that they were trying to feed me. Hindsight's always 20 20, but I didn't know what I know now.

Commercial Narrator / Advertiser (26:01)

Honey is on the case. Focus Features invites you to Honey Don't. The coolest, sexiest, most scandalous murder mystery of the summer. In a small desert town full of odd folks with strange obsessions. A suspicious car crash sets off a series of deadly events. As the body count rises, private Det. Detective Honey o' Donohue finds herself at the center of a bizarre conspiracy where everyone has a secret. From Ethan Cohen, a director of no country for Old Men and starring Margaret Qualley, Aubrey Plaza, Charlie Day and Chris Evans. Honey Don't. Written by Ethan Cohen and Trisha Cook. Rated R under 17. Not admitted without parent. In theaters everywhere. Tomorrow.

Podcast Host / Advertiser (26:32)

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Cindy Crawford (Meaningful Beauty Ad) (27:31)

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Podcast Host / Advertiser (28:32)

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Maggie Robinson Katz (29:42)

Everyone kind of thinks they know how they'll react in a high pressure situation. We think we'll do the honorable thing or we'll keep our composure in some way or something like that. But when we're faced with the reality of it all, I think we'd surprise ourselves. And not always in the best way. I've mentioned before that I can kind of understand what Liss is experiencing because I also took on an investigation around my own dad's mystery. Growing up, my dad was a businessman. In fact, I learned the word entrepreneur very early on on. He always wanted to be a musician, but pivoted that desire towards radio, owning several stations and even pioneering the first radio Network to provide 24 hour music programming via satellite. So a pretty amazing career, right? My dad was filled with stories from the time he turned down hanging out with Paul McCartney, which was a major regret, to producing a radio program with John Candy. And to answer the question that may have popped into your head, yes, I. I did grow up rich. But in 2011, out of seemingly nowhere, my dad was diagnosed with colon cancer and died just a few weeks later, revealing a secret he'd been keeping for years. He was broke, the 2008 real estate crash wiping him out. But there could possibly be something to pull him out of this financial hole. For over a decade, my dad would talk to this guy in the Philippines about gold hidden in the jungle. This guy told my dad he represented the former Filipino dictator Ferdinand Marcos and was the executor of his will. He had access to treasure hidden in the jungle worth trillions of dollars. And with just a modest investment to help get said gold out of said jungle, my dad would be wealthy beyond his wildest dreams. My dad in the sky, almost 8,000 miles away, would have nearly nightly phone calls. My dad would take notes using pen and paper, keeping track of important details, numbers and people.

Podcast Host / Advertiser (32:02)

But.

Maggie Robinson Katz (32:02)

But later, he transitioned to taping them. Tapes I got access to a couple years after his death.

Tom (Tammy's husband) (32:12)

Thank you for calling Rubens street in.

Elizabeth Melgar (32:14)

May I help you?

Detective Sean Kerris (32:14)

Yes, Mr. Stuckey. Room 203, please.

Maggie Robinson Katz (32:18)

There's hundreds of them, all following the same pattern. My dad dials, says the date and time on the recording, and the phone rings. This guy in the Philippines picks up.

Detective Sean Kerris (32:30)

Hello. Hey. So what happened?

Maggie Robinson Katz (32:34)

Well, and give some updates that really don't make any sense.

Detective Sean Kerris (32:38)

The generals decided they didn't want to take it out Until Monday morning, the generals just got afraid to do it. There's just too many people get killed for a lot less than that over here.

Maggie Robinson Katz (32:48)

As the years progress, I hear the timbre of my dad's voice start to shift. What started as maybe a fun hobby for a rich guy became his last saving grace after losing all of his money in the market crash of 2008. If these deals can come through, then my dad would be back on top.

Detective Sean Kerris (33:11)

Don't. Don't get angry with me. It's 4 o'. Clock. I'm not upset with you. I'm upset with the world. Well, but what it's done to me has been devastating. You know, I didn't ask for this. I didn't ask for, you know, I was told that this is all lead pipe cinch and what it's doing is just slowly killing me. And, you know, I feel bad for you, but this is just. It's been all these years of just, this is gonna happen, this is gonna happen. What we're working on, on the Welsh fire Bill will happen. It's gone. Well, I hope so. But what she's doing over.

Maggie Robinson Katz (33:53)

He never got the money and died thinking his family would never forgive him for losing everything. This didn't sit well with me. So I decided to go on my own quest, fly to the Philippines and meet this man on the other end of the line. Something I found myself telling Liz about years later in a hotel room in Wimbledon in London. I mean, like, I remember, you know, like, the podcast I did about my dad. I, like, confronted my dad's con artist in, like, this fancy hotel in Manila. And I had, like, a bodyguard because they told me that he was probably going to kill me or, like, try to kill me. And there was a part where I was kind of able to, like, disassociate and just, like, kind of be there. But when I listened to it, or like, when I listened to my interview with him, I thought the same thing about myself, where I thought I was way too nice, way too accommodating, like, really friendly. But also I kind of, like, thought he was going to kill me. It's hard to be the one to take the call to try and solve the mysteries that plague your family. And while I don't understand exactly what Liz went through, there are similarities. We are both daughters, so searching for answers. And while I didn't get mine, Liz hopes that she can find hers. Back in 2012, on the day after Christmas, Liz does exactly what the police have asked her to do. But it's a tall order.

Elizabeth Melgar (35:40)

So I went back to the house which was very eerie and like there's still a smell that I can't describe it. I think it's a mixture of the fingerprint dust and the luminal.

Podcast Host / Advertiser (35:53)

So.

Maggie Robinson Katz (35:53)

Luminal. This is a chemical used to detect traces of blood at crime scenes that aren't visible to the naked eye. It glows blue in the dark which indicates traces of blood that could have been left behind even after someone tries to clean it up. The crime scene unit used it in the Melgar's bathroom and then these like.

Elizabeth Melgar (36:14)

Big black trash bags. I don't know if it's like that smell all mixed together or if it's the chemical smell. I don't know what it is. Sometimes I still smell it and it takes me back there. But this house just had this smell that wasn't the smell my house had. All of the furniture that had been in my mom and dad's room was in the living room because they had to pull up the carpet and paint the floor because of all the blood and repaint the walls and everything. There was just black fingerprint dust everywhere and it was just so quiet.

Maggie Robinson Katz (36:52)

She sees the house in disarray, the drawers left open, looking to her like the they've been rifled through. Did it normally look like that?

Elizabeth Melgar (37:01)

No. I used to drive my mom crazy if anyone left, you know, cabinets open or drawers open. And it drives me crazy. But no, we, we never left it like that.

Maggie Robinson Katz (37:13)

It's hard for Liz to tell what's missing and what the police have seized. The professional cleaners hired to clean up crime scenes have already come forward through and everything's been moved about. She thinks a small TV which was in her parents bedroom, jewelry and her mom's anti seizure medication are all gone. Then she goes into the garage. Jim's man cave, his happy place.

Elizabeth Melgar (37:43)

I used to love to sit out in the garage with him and watch him work. Like I'd always asked him to teach me how to do things and he was like, you're going to cut your hand off. There's no way I'm going to teach to right now. But you can sit and watch or you can help in other ways. So I was like familiar with his workspace. You know, he loved his tools, he loved building and he loved, you know, making things with his hands, working on cars, doing these types of things.

Maggie Robinson Katz (38:08)

It was crammed with expensive looking power tools and machinery. Shelves and shelves of paint filler sprays, you know, DIY stuff.

Elizabeth Melgar (38:18)

All the toolboxes had been opened, rummaged through just like haphazardly, just left disorganized and jumbled together. And that's not how my my dad was very organized with his tools. He was just somebody who had a routine and a set way of doing things and he just didn't deviate from it. And so to see the way that the garage had been left was not my dad at all.

Maggie Robinson Katz (38:46)

Then Liz spots something else, something totally out of place. Her old green and black backpack from middle school, long forgotten, in a closet in the house, sitting on the concrete garage floor.

Elizabeth Melgar (39:03)

And I thought that was strange. So I kind of stood over it and I looked into it and I could see that there was an Xbox in there, but I didn't want to touch any of it.

Maggie Robinson Katz (39:15)

Liz knows from reading all of those true crime books that touching it could contaminate vital evidence.

Elizabeth Melgar (39:22)

And so I called the police and I said, you should come look at this.

Maggie Robinson Katz (39:27)

The detectives return to the house and photograph the backpack and the other things that, according to Liz, don't add up. But only the backpack and its contents are seized and taken to the Harris county forensic lab for testing. Inside, there's an Xbox, Xbox controllers, an Xbox game and more than 20 pieces of jewelry, including earrings, rings and necklaces. Valuables taken from the house. Highly pawnable items had they been stashed in the garage by burglars who had to flee the scene in a hurry when things got out of hand. Could these hold the clothes clues to who killed Liz's dad, Jim Melgar? You've been listening to Hands tied, a new eight part true crime series from BBC Studios and iHeart Podcasts. New episodes will be released weekly, so subscribe or follow on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss out. If you like the show, please help us by spreading the word or giving us a five star review. I'm Maggie Robinson Katz and the producer is Maggie Latham. Sound design in mix is by Tom Brignall. Our script consultant is Emma Weatherall. Production support is from Dan Marchini, Elena Boateng and Mabel Finnegan Wright. And our production executive is Laura Jordan Rowell. The series was developed by Anya Saunders and emma Shah. At iHeart, the managing executive producer is Christina Everett and for BBC Studios the executive producer is Jo Kent.

Podcast Host / Advertiser (41:15)

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Maggie Robinson Katz (41:48)

Mentions the R word Remission. Is it possible? Like is it over?

Podcast Host / Advertiser (41:54)

But also knowing it's never really over.

Detective Sean Kerris (41:56)

But just being able to say, hey.

Podcast Host / Advertiser (41:58)

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Maggie Robinson Katz (42:03)

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Detective Sean Kerris (42:05)

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Maggie Robinson Katz (42:15)

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Maggie Robinson Katz (42:31)

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Maggie Robinson Katz (42:58)

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Elizabeth Melgar (43:06)

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