Episode 5 - Warrior Spirit

Summary

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Hands Tied – Episode 5: "Warrior Spirit"

Podcast: Hands Tied
Host: Maggie Robinson Katz
Date: September 3, 2025

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Overview

In this pivotal episode, host Maggie Robinson Katz delves deep into the aftermath of Jim Melgar’s murder and the emotional, cultural, and legal journey of his daughter, Liz Melgar Rose. With her mother Sandy now indicted for Jim’s murder, Liz must pull on her ancestral roots and "warrior spirit" to support her family. The episode explores themes of heritage, resilience, and justice, providing intimate insight into Liz’s personal coping mechanisms, her relationship with her parents, family dynamics, and the tense lead-up to Sandy’s trial.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Liz’s Tattoos and Cultural Heritage

• Tattoos as Memorials: The show opens with Liz discussing her tattoos—each with symbolic meaning and connection to family and Mayan roots.
  • Liz jokes about her “physics equation tramp stamp,” specifically the Dirac equation, which she confesses she can’t fully remember but knows it “brings quantum physics and relativity together.” (02:35–03:15)
  • Her other tattoos are, “like me wearing my altar all the time” (04:33), containing birth flowers representing family members, especially stargazer lilies for her mother and poppies for her father.
• Connection to Mayan Ancestry: Liz recounts learning about her Mayan heritage through her father, Jim, who grew up in Guatemala in severe poverty. (05:08–06:39)
  • She plans a new tattoo, a red band on her wrist, which “signifies the blood that’s been shed from the genocide of, you know, the Mayan people.” (07:16)

Aftermath of Jim’s Murder and Sandy’s Indictment

• Shock and Isolation: Liz is overwhelmed after her mother's indictment, checking legal records repeatedly in disbelief. (08:47)
• Support for Sandy: Liz, her mom, and husband drive together to Houston for Sandy to turn herself in.
  • "It was terrifying for her," Liz recalls, adding that Sandy "has never been arrested before. She’s never gotten in trouble.” (09:49)
• Slow Pace of Justice: Month after month passes as Sandy awaits trial, leaving the family in limbo.
  • “You’re on hold, you can’t do anything. You’re just in a holding pattern.” – Liz (10:58)
• Coping and Compartmentalization: With a new baby and a move to Seattle, Liz describes surviving by focusing strictly on daily needs.
  • “I just tried to focus on my daughter, really, and I just felt like I didn’t have the bandwidth to really deal with everything.” – Liz (11:38)
• Intergenerational Support: Despite the distance, Sandy and Liz remain close, Sandy visiting to help with her grandchildren’s births, though stress worsens Sandy’s health struggles with lupus and epilepsy. (12:18, 12:50)

Facing Hard Realities

• Considering the Unthinkable: Liz addresses the possibility of her mother’s guilt head-on, refusing to ignore it.
  • “You have to. How can you not? You have to because it is a possibility, right? … That is one.” – Liz (13:35)

Understanding Sandy Beyond the Crime

• Portrait of Sandy: Liz recalls Sandy’s nurturing, calming presence.
  • "She was always the buffer between me, my dad ... someone I could genuinely talk to." (18:11)
  • Sandy is described as selfless, rarely complaining, always putting others first.
• Diana’s (Sandy’s cousin) Perspective: Diana shares memories growing up together in a poor but loving home.
  • "She was such a goody two shoes … She wasn’t a rule breaker. You know, she followed the law. She barely had a speeding ticket." – Diana (20:39)
  • Diana lived with Sandy and Jim and saw them as an example of a good marriage—a rare thing in their family. (21:02-21:53)

Gearing Up for Trial

• Family’s Emotional Standby: Diana prepared herself to be led by evidence, even if it meant accepting Sandy’s guilt.
  • "If she's guilty, then she deserves to be in prison ... but she definitely deserves to be in prison if that's what she did, if she’s guilty of this." – Diana (22:37)
• Defense Team: Sandy’s defense is led by Allison Seacrest and her uncle, veteran defense attorney Mac Seacrest.
  • “Mac and I wholeheartedly, without a doubt, believe in Sandra’s innocence.” – Allison Seacrest (27:45)
  • The team deeply investigates the case, becoming personally involved with Sandy and her family, and describing the case as one with "a sweet, loving family" (29:29).

The Trial Begins

• Media Frenzy and Logistics: The trial draws major attention; Liz notes the chaos outside the courtroom, where she is on crutches post-surgery. (32:39–33:25)
• Witness Isolation: Liz and Diana are sequestered for possible testimony, unable to hear evidence directly as it unfolds.
  • "They put you in a witness room and you just have to sit in there all day every day and wait..." – Liz (33:40)
• Jury Selection and Legal Realities: The process spotlights how real-life trials differ from TV: prosecutors don’t have to prove motive, and the difficulty in finding jurors who can convict without one.
• Jury's Responsibility: The gravity hits as the jurors are chosen.
  • "Those are the people that have your mom's life in their hands. And that's when it hit home." – Liz (36:31)
  • Liz silently pleads for compassion and fairness from the jury, stressing her hope: “Please, please just be a good human, do the right thing. That's what made it real.” (36:50)
• The Warrior Spirit: The episode closes with Maggie reflecting on the resilience required to face the coming ordeal, as the court proceedings finally begin and the fate of Sandy hangs in the balance.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tattoos and Heritage
  • Liz, on her tattoos as an altar: “That’s like me wearing my altar all the time.” (04:33)
• Cultural Connection
  • “I guess I'm trying to get to know the culture because, I don't know, I guess it makes me feel more connected to my dad and my family." – Liz (06:57)
• Facing Uncertainty
  • “You don’t know how to prepare for that. There’s no one you can really talk to because not everybody goes through that. … It’s very isolating. It’s hard.” – Liz (10:31)
• Grieving and Enduring
  • “It never gets easier, but you learn to live with it ... Have it be part of your life.” – Liz (11:08)
• Maternal Love
  • "She's just a very warm and loving person. She's a mom. Like, when you picture a mom..." – Liz (17:45)
• Legal Commitment
  • “If she’s guilty, then she deserves to be in prison…. But she definitely deserves to be in prison if that’s what she did, if she’s guilty of this. So that’s how I went into the trial, knowing that I could get some devastating [news]." – Diana (22:37)
• Faith and Responsibility in Justice
  • "I want to believe somebody, nobody's innocent until the state can prove them guilty. And is the state doing their job of proving this person guilty? And we all place that at the forefront of our deliberations and our discussion ..." – Juror (37:36)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:35–04:55 | Liz’s tattoos and meaning; honoring family and Mayan ancestry | | 05:08–07:16 | Childhood memories, trip to Guatemala, increasing cultural connection | | 08:27–10:44 | After Sandy's indictment, family isolation and legal uncertainty | | 11:03–12:50 | Life in limbo; focus on children; impact on Sandy’s health | | 13:09–13:55 | Liz contemplating the possibility her mom is guilty | | 17:33–18:58 | Portrait of Sandy from Liz’s childhood, calmness and care | | 19:24–21:53 | Diana’s recollections of growing up with Sandy | | 22:25–24:07 | Diana’s emotional preparation for trial and evidence | | 27:45–29:29 | Sandy’s defense team, their belief in her innocence, and approach | | 32:39–33:46 | Arrival at court; media frenzy; Liz and Diana isolated as witnesses | | 34:24–36:44 | Jury selection; legal realities; emotional impact on Liz | | 37:14–37:54 | Sensationalism of the trial; jurors’ responsibility |

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Tone and Atmosphere

The episode blends somber reflection with moments of warmth and wry humor, echoing Liz's resilience and Maggie’s empathetic but probing narration. The family's strength, the cultural layers of identity, and the anxiety of awaiting justice are palpable throughout.

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Next Episode Preview

The episode wraps with anticipation for the trial’s developments and the verdict that will determine Sandy’s fate—teasing courtroom drama and juror deliberations to come.

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Transcript

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Narrator]

December 29, 1975, LaGuardia Airport.

The holiday rush. Parents hauling luggage. Kids gripping their new Christmas toys. Then everything changed.

There's been a bombing at the TWA terminal. Just a chaotic, chaotic scene.

In its wake, a new kind of enemy emerged. Terrorism. Listen to the new season of law and criminal justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Virgin Voyages Advertiser]

Where's the best place to binge your favorite true crime podcast? On the edge of your seat or under the Caribbean sun on an award winning Virgin Voyages ship. This October, set sail on the first ever true crime podcast Voyage from Virgin Voyages. Catch live recordings at sea. Meet I heart true crime hosts, enjoy Halloween themed parties and all aboard a kid free luxurious Virgin Voyages ship. It's like a floating five star hotel with plot twists. Book now at virginvoyages.com truecrime hi everyone.

[Nicole Angemi and Maria Q. Kain]

It'S Nicole Angemi, PA, and curator of isssangemi on Instagram, where I have been teaching about pathology and death for over 10 years. And I'm her daughter Maria Q. Kain and we host the podcast Mother Knows Death. Each week we dive into the darker side of life, exploring topics such as what can go wrong with the human body, true crime, medical mysteries, freak acc and more. New episodes of our show drop twice a week. Make sure to tune in to Mother Knows Death on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Narrator]

Did it occur to you that he charmed you in any way? Yes, it did. But he was a charming man. It looks like the ingredients of a really grand spy story. Because this ties together the Cold war with the new one. I often ask myself now, did I know the true Yan at all? Listen to Hot Agent of chaos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

BBC Studios.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Hey, I'm Maggie. Just a quick heads up before we start. The series does contain some descriptions of violence and deals with adult themes. How many tattoos do you have?

[Diana (Sandy's cousin)]

A lot.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

I have a physics equation tramp stamp. I thought that would be funny. I thought that would be funny.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

That is funny. I love a physics tramp stamp. Highbrow low brow is my love language and that is the epitome of highbrow low brow.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

I think that would be kind of ironic.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

So what's the physics equation?

[Liz Melgar Rose]

It's the GIRAC equation. It kind of brings like quantum physics and relativity together. It just like explains everything and it kind of talks about like dark matter And I don't know, antimatter. I can't even remember. It's been so long.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

I'm sitting next to Liz on her oversized, well loved, teal colored couch in London, nodding my head, pretending I know exactly what the Dirac equation is. I have no idea what the Dirac equation is. Liz starts to roll up her sleeve, showing me her other tattoos, her mood changing as she does. This is beautiful.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

This just got touched up. But most of this was done by a Mexican tattoo artist, and it's hard to see.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Liz pivots her body further, lifting the fabric up and revealing a kaleidoscope of colorful flowers inked on her arm.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

So there's like a rose up here for her last name.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

She's now Liz Melgar Rose, taking the name Rose from her husband, Anthony. And there are others. Each flower representing a different member of her family.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

And then these are for my parents, the stargazer lilies. This is my mom's birth flower. This is the sacred Mayan flower.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

This one?

[Liz Melgar Rose]

Yeah.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

A deep purple aster with its brilliant yellow center. There's a violet, a sunflower.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

This is my daughter's birth flower. My son's a chrysanthemum, and the poppies are my dad's. And then this is a simpasuchi or a marigold. And those are used on Day of the Dead. So that's like me wearing my altar all the time.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Her tattoos, her altar, are not just devotions to her dad, but to their shared Mayan heritage. Something she says Jim was deeply proud of, having grown up in Guatemala.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

When I was a kid, he was always trying to teach me about our culture and tell me I should be proud of where we've come from. And you know, that we've come from nothing and look at where we are. I really didn't appreciate it at the time. I really didn't. I was just, oh, my God. Okay, I get it. I've heard this story a hundred times.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

What would he tell you about living in Guatemala?

[Liz Melgar Rose]

He would just talk about, like, the absolute poverty. He would always tell me, you know, you don't know how good you have it or how lucky you are. My grandmother, she used to live in, like, straw and mud houses that they would have to rebuild every year. Her first language was a Mayan dialect called K'. Kechi. And then she learned Spanish later on once she got older. But they were very, very poor. So when I was six, we went for six weeks. And I remember that trip vividly.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Yeah, tell me about it.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

Yeah, I mean, we get there, and in the middle of the courtyard, there's like, this shit. And that's where everyone showers. But, you know, I was like, there's no hot water. How am I going to take a bath? So my grandma got, like, one of those metal clothes washing bins and heated hot water on the stove so I could have a warm bath. And my dad said that as soon as we got there, I said, there's nothing cold to drink. I'm ready to go home.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

I mean, understandable, I think I would feel the same way at age 6. But as Liz gets older, her interest in her indigenous roots continue to grow. And after her dad's murder, that interest becomes a passion.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

I guess I'm trying to get to know the culture because, I don't know, I guess it makes me feel more connected to my dad and my family.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Liz is planning another tattoo to honor her Kek Chi spirit. Do you know what you're gonna get?

[Liz Melgar Rose]

Just a red band on your wrist. Yeah. Cool. It's supposed to signify the blood that's been shed from the genocide of, you know, the Mayan people.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

A symbol to mark the oppression of the Mayan people was. Which is, no doubt an incredibly heavy thing to have inked on your body. But this red band also symbolizes a message of resilience and survival against acts of cruelty. And if you've been through what Liz has, I can see why this message would resonate so deeply. She's already lost one parent. And to rewind back to the summer of 2014, she feels like she's about to lose another. It's been 18 months since Jim's death. Liz is at the new home she shares with her mom and husband. A pile of flyers from various lawyers in her hands, all offering to represent Sandy. I can't imagine what Liz is feeling. She's trying to come to terms with the loss of her dad and now this. All while just becoming a mother herself.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

I just had my daughter, so I was kind of all over the place.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Liz is likely sleep deprived, adjusting to her new life as a mom. Maybe this is all a mistake. Could this really be happening? She keeps checking the records on the district attorney's website, clearing the page, and.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

Then searching for her name, like, this has to be a mistake, and like doing the search a couple of different ways just to be sure that I had the right information.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

But it's no mistake. Sandy had been indicted for Jim's murder. And right now, Liz is going to need every fiber of her Kek Chi warrior spirit to keep her mom out of jail. I'm Maggie Robinson Katz, and from BBC Studios and I Heart Podcasts, this is Hands Tied episode five, Warrior Spirit. Liz has entered what feels like a parallel universe. Her mom is no longer Sandy Melgar, but the defendant, accused of first degree murder. And things are about to get even worse.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

We all drove to Houston together so that she could turn herself in and be processed. My mom was in tears and she's never been arrested before. She's never gotten in trouble. It was terrifying for her.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

At 9am on July 29, 2014, in Houston, Texas, Sandy is arrested and the formal indictment is read out. Sandra Melgar is accused of unlawfully, intentionally, and knowingly causing the death of Jaime by, and I quote, stabbing the complainant with a deadly weapon, namely a knife. Sandy is granted bail.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

You don't know what's going to happen. You don't know how to prepare for that. There's no one you can really talk to because not everybody goes through that. You know, it's very isolating. It's very. It's hard.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

I think we all have expectations of how justice moves from what we've seen on movies or on tv. You're indicted, then it's straight to court. But the truth is, the legal system often moves really slowly.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

You're on hold, you can't do anything. You're just in a holding pattern.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Weeks turn into months, months turn into years.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

It never gets easier, but you learn to live with it and you learn how to, you know, just, yeah, have it be part of your life.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

And life, no matter how difficult, marches on the following Summer in 2015, Liz and her daughter move out of Texas, thousands of miles to Seattle, after her husband Anthony lands a job there.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

I just tried to focus on my daughter, really, and I just felt like I didn't have the bandwidth to really deal with everything. I was just like, okay, well, this is how it's going to go now. Like, one foot in front of the other. What do we do?

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Sandy stays in Houston, but tries to see Liz and her grandchild as often as she can.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

We actually spent a lot of time together. She spent a lot of time with my daughter, and I think that helped her a lot.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

And in 2016, four years after Jim's death and two years after Sandy's indictment, Liz is pregnant again.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

And then my son was born, and she came and helped. She came and stayed with my daughter while I had him in the hospital.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

On the surface, Sandy's doing remarkably well.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

My mom is really good at, like, compartmentalizing. I guess just pretending like that's not, I guess being in denial, I don't know. I don't know what you want to call it, but she's just good. I'm like, everything's fine.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

But everything's not fine. And Liz can see right through it.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

Obviously, like, she was still under a ton of stress and still trying to process everything that happened and dealing with, you know, her own health not doing well. And stress also makes things worse, both the lupus and the epilepsy. So she struggled a lot.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

And what about Liz? She's filled with anxiety about the future. There might be some people who are listening who feel like accepting the murder of your dad is horrible. That to accept that your mom killed your dad is way too horrible to entertain. So you can't even like, think about that possibility.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

But you have to. How can you not? You have to because it is a possibility, right? There's a ton of possibilities. And unfortunately, that is one.

[Narrator]

December 29, 1975. LaGuardia Airport.

The holiday rush. Parents hauling luggage. Kids gripping their new Christmas toys. Then at 6:33pm, everything changed.

There's been a bombing at the TWA terminal. Apparently the explosion actually impelled metal glass. The injured were being loaded into ambulances. Just a chaotic, chaotic scene.

In its wake, a new kind of enemy emerged. And it was here to stay. Terrorism, law and order. Criminal justice system is back. In season two, we're turning our focus to a threat that hides in plain sight that's harder to predict and even harder to stop. Listen to the new season of law and criminal justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Virgin Voyages Advertiser]

Where's the best place to binge your favorite true crime podcast? On the edge of your seat or under the Caribbean sun on an award winning Virgin Voyages ship. This October, set sail on the first ever true crime pod voyage from Virgin Voyages. Catch live recordings at sea. Meet I heart true crime hosts. Enjoy Halloween themed parties and more all aboard a kid free, luxurious Virgin Voyages ship. It's like a floating five star hotel with plot twists. Book now at virginvoyages.com truecrime what would.

[Narrator]

You do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number. A New York state number and we own you. Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short term, highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training. These programs Aim to provide a shock of prison life, emphasizing strict discipline, physical training, hard labor, and rehabilitation programs. Mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him the next six months. The first night was overwhelming and you don't know who's next to you, and we didn't know what to expect. In the morning, nobody tells you anything. Listen to shock incarceration on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Jan Marsalek was a model of German corporate success. It seemed so damn simple for him. Also, it turned out a fraudster. Where does the money come from? That was something that I always was questioning myself. But what if I told you that was the least interesting thing about him? His secret office was less than 500 meters down the road. I often ask myself now, did I know the true Rian at all? Certain things in my life since then have gone terribly wrong.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

I don't know if they followed me to my home.

[Narrator]

It looks like the ingredients of a really grand spy story because this ties together the Cold war with the new one. Listen to Hot agent of chaos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

She's just a very warm and loving person. She's a mom. Like, when you picture a mom, at least I picture someone who gives you hugs and who's affectionate and who you can talk to and who you feel comfortable with.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

According to Liz, Sandy was always nurturing, constantly doting on her only daughter.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

You know, they're making you food and they're feeding you and they're making sure you're okay. And, you know, it's just someone you can trust.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Liz says Sandy was the peacemaker of the family, especially during, shall we say, Liz's more rebellious years.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

She was always the buffer between me, my dad, and she was always telling my dad to just, you know, it's okay, just give her some space. It'll be fine. I felt like my mother was somebody I could genuinely talk to. Not about everything, but about most things.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

I think a lot of daughters feel that way about their mothers. They don't need to know everything. Like, you know, maybe the time you flirted with shoplifting when you were a little too old to be doing that. Just me.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

My mom is incredibly calm and easygoing. She never complains. It was always about other people, and, you know, she just wanted everyone else to be okay. And I think she came last a lot of the time, but I think that's a lot of moms.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

I feel like throughout this podcast, we've talked a lot about Sandy's situation, but who she is, what she likes, dislikes, her favorite foods, you know, the things that make us us. All of that feels a little fuzzy to me. I want to see if I can understand her a bit more where she comes from, so I seek out some of her family.

[Diana (Sandy's cousin)]

The age difference between Sandy and I is about 13, 14 years. We grew up together, so she was raised by my grandmother, as was I. So Sandy has always been in my life.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Diana is Sandy's cousin.

[Diana (Sandy's cousin)]

Her mom and my dad were siblings.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

But in reality, they're more like sisters, just like Sandy. Diana says she was abandoned by her parents. So they both grew up in Laredo, a town in Texas near the Mexican border.

[Diana (Sandy's cousin)]

At any given point, there could be, like, seven kids in a tiny house. It was just fun for me having so many people around, so much love around. But it was difficult. We were poor, and we struggled for food, and, you know, we would go hungry. I could see pictures and look back on it now and see the conditions we were living in, how I was dressed, how malnourished I looked.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Sandy was Diana's role model. Caring, reliable, sensible. She even taught Diana to drive.

[Diana (Sandy's cousin)]

She was such a goody two shoes. Like, I don't know how else to put it. She wasn't a rule breaker. You know, she followed the law. She barely had a speeding ticket.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Diana followed Sandy from Laredo to Houston and lived with her and Jim for a couple of years. She says it was her first experience of living in a peaceful home.

[Diana (Sandy's cousin)]

Sandy and Jim, they had a good life. Like, they had made it. You know, out of the whole family, she was the first one to have a nice home and a good marriage. Like, we didn't grow up with examples of a good marriage. Besides my aunt, everyone else was broken home. My dad, his marriage didn't work out. Her mom, their marriage didn't work out. So they were a perfect example of what we all strive to achieve one day. The financial stability, the good marriage. I. It's just still so crazy that out of all of us, she is the one that ended up in this situation.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Maybe it's unsurprising considering how much Diana revered Sandy, but she can't think of anyone less likely to murder their husband.

[Diana (Sandy's cousin)]

It was devastating that anyone could think that she was capable of that and that she would do something like that to Jim. And I think maybe she was afraid that, you know, we were going to think the same thing, but it just. It was never Entered my mind that Sandy could be capable of that.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

But in the summer of 2017, Sandy's murder trial is finally scheduled. And Diana braces herself for what might come out in court. What if she got it all wrong?

[Diana (Sandy's cousin)]

You know, I believe in science, I believe in evidence, I believe in law enforcement. And so before the trial started, I prepared myself, I prepared myself for the possibility of Sandy actually doing this crime. Like, I was not blind to the fact that it is possible, you know, and so I prepared myself that I'm going to be sitting there during the trial and, and I could find out Sandy is guilty. That's how I looked at it, because I was prepared to see the evidence. You know, I believe that if they charge someone that they have the evidence to back it up. And I thought, well, what am I going to do if she's guilty? Like, what am I going to do? And I knew that, okay, if she's guilty, then she deserves to be in prison. And I'm not gonna turn my back on her. You know, she's been there my whole life, so I will support her however I can. But she definitely deserves to be in prison if that's what she did, if she's guilty of this. So that's how I went into the trial, knowing that I could get some devastating.

[Narrator]

December 29, 1975 Laguardia Airport.

The holiday rush. Parents hauling luggage. Kids gripping their new Christmas toys. Then at 6:33pm everything changed.

There's been a bombing at the TWA terminal. Apparently the explosion actually impelled metal glass. The injured were being loaded into ambulances. Just a chaotic, chaotic scene.

In its wake, a new kind of enemy emerged and it was here to stay. Terrorism, law and order. Criminal justice system is back in season two. We're turning our focus to a threat that hides in plain sight that's harder to predict and even harder to stop. Listen to the new season of law and criminal justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Virgin Voyages Advertiser]

Where's the best place to binge your favorite true crime podcast? On the edge of your seat or under the Caribbean sun on an award winning Virgin Voyages ship this October set sail on the first ever true crime PODC cast voyage from Virgin Voyages. Catch live recordings at sea. Meet I heart true crime hosts. Enjoy Halloween themed parties and more. All aboard a kid free luxurious Virgin Voyages ship. It's like a floating five star hotel with plot twists. Book now at virginvoyages.com truecrime a foot washed up.

[Narrator]

A shoe with some bones in it. They had no idea who it was.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Most everything was burned up pretty good.

[Narrator]

From the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

These are the coldest of cold cases. But everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA using new scientific tools. They're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it.

[Narrator]

He never thought he was to going, want to get caught? And I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors, and you'll meet the team behind the scenes at othram, the Houston lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Narrator]

Jan Marsalek was a model of German corporate success. It seemed so damn simple for him. Also, it turned out a fraudster. Where does the money come from? That was something that I always was questioning myself. But what if I told you that was the least interesting thing about him? His secret office was less than 500 meters down the road. I often ask myself now, did I know the true Rian at all? Certain things in my life since then have gone terribly wrong.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

I don't know if they followed me to my home.

[Narrator]

It looks like the ingredients of a really grand spy story because this ties together the Cold War with the new one. Listen to Hot agent of chaos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Allison Seacrest]

Mac and I wholeheartedly, without a doubt, believe in Sandra's innocence.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

This is no doubt a helpful sentiment if you're going to defend someone against a murder charge. And Sandy's lucky. She's got Allison Seacrest, who, along with her uncle Max Seacrest, will be representing her in court.

[Narrator]

I was honored and delighted to step in and represent Sandy at trial.

[Allison Seacrest]

Mack is my uncle, and like a.

[Narrator]

Second father, she lived with me and studied the law and learned how to cook.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

What did you learn how to cook?

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Oh, gosh.

[Allison Seacrest]

Amazing salads, you know, lovely fish, all kinds of things. He's an amazing chef and more importantly, a great friend and excellent mentor.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

George McCall Sechrist Jr. Or Mac, as he prefers to be called, is in his late 70s now. He's one of the big guns of the Texas legal world. He's been practicing since 1977 and he wrote the book on law. No, really. He's the author of Oconnors Texas Criminal Codes plus a kind of Texan legal bible. And Alison is not only his niece, but his protege.

[Allison Seacrest]

I had the opportunity to go to court with him when I was, gosh, probably fourth grade or so and just thought it was really fascinating seeing him interacting with judges and lawyers and his client.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Allison cut her teeth as a prosecutor in the Harris County DA's office before going into private practice. After taking on Sandy's case, they request the Melgar police files and begin acquainting themselves with the various details.

[Allison Seacrest]

We spent hours and hours with Sandy, hours and hours with her daughter and with other witnesses and family, friends that we called, you know, as a young defense attorney, not the experience that my uncle had, obviously it was hard not to get involved. You know, I think a lot of doctors and lawyers and probably some other professions have to learn to compartmentalize and not become attached. But I like Sandy. We did a deep dive into all of her text messages and understanding what their relationship was like. What a sweet, loving family. And it wasn't possible for us to not get emotionally involved, involved.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

But soon, Mac, Allison, Liz and Diana will see how this will all play out in court. A local murder case that grabbed national attention is headed to trial.

[Narrator]

Jury selection starting today in the trial of Sandra Melgar, who's accused of murdering her longtime husband, then trying to cover it up.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

The media circus kicks into high gear and presents viewers with the familiar setup of a lurid femme fatale murder trial.

[Narrator]

This is a case that began in 2012 and Sandra Melgar stands accused of murdering her husband Jaime Melgar, then staging a home invasion as a cover up. It happened on December 23rd in northwest Harris County. Sandra and her husband were both found tied up. He was found dead, stabbed 31 times in a closet. She was was found bound in a bathroom. Melger originally had told investigators that she blacked out in a bathroom and woke up tied up in a closet. But nearly two years later, she was arrested and charged with murder. Now Melger has been free on a $50,000 bond. If convicted of murder, she faces up to life in prison.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

On Thursday, August 3, 2017, the State of Texas v. Sandra Jean Melgar begins. Harris County Criminal Justice Center, Franklin street, downtown Houston. A busker greets the steady flow of people as they climb the stone steps and pass the through the glass doors of the imposing 21 story building. Attorneys, journalists Jim and Sandy's family, including Liz, Anthony and Diana, and members of the public all wait in line at the airport style security. Laptops are laid neatly in trays, pockets emptied. Today, the line is longer than usual. A noisy knot of law students join the line. They've just finished their bar exams, and for the first time in months, they've got some downtime. What better way to spend it than sitting in on the opening day of what promises to be an extraordinary case?

[Liz Melgar Rose]

It was just like one of the most surreal moments of my life. It just felt like this, like a snowball that just was gathering momentum.

[Narrator]

Him.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Liz attempts to navigate the swirling frenzy of the media. Cameras aren't allowed inside the courtroom, so the TV crews linger in the hallway.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

And there's just this camera guy from one of the news stations and he's just like, he hit somebody in the head with his camera. My husband, like, is trying to get in the way to block him. The guy's walking backwards and my husband's like, in front of us. I'm trying not to trip over my crutches.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

As if things aren't complicated enough, Liz is recovering from surgery and hobbling around on crutches.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

I mean, there's just like, it's just pure chaos in this hallway. And I mean, I've never experienced anything like that before.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

But Liz isn't allowed to watch the trial because she's going to be called as a witness.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

Well, yeah, they put you in a witness room and you just have to sit in there all day every day and wait because you don't know when you're going to be called.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Liz is going to miss the moment she's been waiting years for. When the detectives finally reveal their evidence against her mom. Why they think Sandy killed her dad, even though she was found with her hands tied. It's the same for Sandy's cousin Diana, who's also being called as a witness.

[Diana (Sandy's cousin)]

That devastated me because I wanted to hear the evidence firsthand. I wanted to see it. I didn't want to read it. I wanted to see what the jury was going to see and hear. I wanted to experience it just like they're going to.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

And so the State of Texas v. Sandra Jean Melgar finally begins. First, they need to select a jury. Feeding even more breathless coverage in the press.

[Narrator]

Both the prosecution and the defense spent the morning going through 65 prospective jurors. But after going through that selection process, they couldn't come up with a group of 12 that they were looking for. Sandra Melger is charged with.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Both sides get a chance to quiz potential jurors. Trying to weed out anyone with A conflict of interest or an obvious bias. If you've read Max Seacrest's book, you'll know that the legal term for this is war Dyer. The potential jurors are reminded that the defendant Sandy, is innocent until proven guilty and that it's the prosecution's job to prove her guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. But what they don't have to prove is motive, which isn't quite how I remember it from all those courtroom dramas I've watched. I mean, I'm looking at you, Law and Order Detective Olivia Benson, where whole episode revolve around exposing someone's motive. But this is real life, and there's no legal requirement to prove motive. You can find someone guilty of murder without ever knowing why they did it. So the potential jurors are asked, could they convict someone without a motive? And some say they do have a problem with that and are upfront about it, admitting they wouldn't be able to find someone guilty without knowing their motive. So they're out. Others don't make the cut for other reasons. They're into day two of the trial before they finally select eight men and four women who will sit in judgment of Sandy Melgar.

[Narrator]

It's part of my life, part of my history. I got called into something I didn't want. I resent it, but I was asked to do it. I did it because that's my civil responsibility. That's what I would want. The government to protect me and make sure if I was in her situation that somebody was there protecting me.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

Once they picked all the jurors that were going to sit, I just remember my cousin saying, there they go. Those are the people that have your mom's life in their hands. And that's when it hit home.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Liz watches the jurors file in before retreating to the cold, airless witness room.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

Like I kept. I was like trying to look at them and get a read on them or figure out like, please, please just be a good human, do the right thing. That's what made it real. Like that was the moment.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Once again, she'll be drawing on every ounce of her Kekchi warrior spirit to get her through the nerve shell shredding days ahead.

[Narrator]

It was made to be a sensationalist trial, I think, because it was so unusual.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

What will the jurors make of her mom?

[Narrator]

Sandra Melgar herself would limp into the courtroom every morning. When we sat down, she usually put her head down and she didn't look at us very much.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

And how will they determine Sandy's fate?

[Narrator]

I want to believe somebody, nobody's innocent until the state can prove them guilty. And is the state doing their job of proving this person guilty? And we all place that at the forefront of our deliberations and our discussion, saying let's do this the way we're supposed to. We're here to decide innocent or guilty.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

That's next time on Hands Tied.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

Foreign.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

You'Ve been listening to Hands tied, a new eight part true crime series from BBC Studios and iHeart Podcasts. New episodes will be released weekly, so subscribe or follow on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss out. If you like the show, please help us by sponsoring, spreading the Word or giving us a five star review. I'm Maggie Robinson Katz and the producer is Maggie Latham. Sound design in mix is by Tom Brignall. Our script consultant is Emma Weatherall. Production support is from Dan Marchini, Elena Boateng and Mabel Finnegan Wright and our production executive is Laura Jordan Rowell. The series was developed by Anya Saunders and emma Shah. At iHeart, the managing executive producer is Christina Everett and for BBC Studios the executive producer is Joe Kent. James Cook is the Creative Director of factual for BBC Studios Audio and the director of audio at BBC Studios is Richard Knight.

[Narrator]

December 29, 1975 LaGuardia Airport the holiday rush.

Parents hauling luggage, kids gripping their new Christmas toys. Then everything changed.

There's been a bombing at the TWA terminal. Just a chaotic, chaotic scene.

In its wake, a new kind of enemy emerged. Terrorism. Listen to the new season of law and criminal justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Virgin Voyages Advertiser]

Where's the best place to binge your favorite true crime podcast? On the edge of your seat or under the Caribbean sun on an award winning Virgin Voyages ship. This October set sail on the first ever true crime podcast Voyage from Virgin Voyages. Catch live recordings at sea. Meet I heart true crime hosts, enjoy Halloween themed parties and more. All aboard a kid free luxurious Virgin Voyages ship. It's like a floating five star hotel with plot twists. Book now at virginvoyages.com truecrime hi everyone.

[Nicole Angemi and Maria Q. Kain]

It'S Nicole Angemi, PA and curator of isssangemi on Instagram where I have been teaching about pathology and death for over 10 years and I'm her daughter Maria Q. Kain and we host the podcast Mother Knows Death. Each week we dive into the darker side of life exploring topics such as what can go wrong with the human body, true crime, medical mysteries, freak accidents and more. New episodes of our show drop twice a week. Make sure to tune in to Mother Knows Death on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Liz Melgar Rose]

I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life what that.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Meant for my heart. Podcasts and Rococo Punch this is the Turning River Road. In the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to 10 girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse. But in 2014, the youngest escaped. Listen to the Turning river road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Diana (Sandy's cousin)]

This is an iHeart podcast.