Episode 7 - Aftershock

Summary

Podcast Summary: Hands Tied

Episode 7 – Aftershock
Date: September 17, 2025
Host: Maggie Robinson Katz (iHeartPodcasts/BBC Studios)

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Overview

This episode of Hands Tied continues the tragic and complex story of Sandy Melgar's murder conviction. It explores the immediate and long-term emotional aftershocks experienced by Sandy’s daughter, Liz, and their extended family and friends, while delving into the trial’s critical moments, jury deliberations, the sentencing, prison life, failed appeals, and a last-ditch hope for a new defense. The episode highlights the devastating impact a controversial conviction can have, not only on the accused but also on loved ones who continue to seek justice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Trial Verdict – Shock and Grief ([03:25–07:35])

• Jury Reaches Verdict: Tense mood in the courtroom as the jury files in; many are visibly emotional.
• Immediate Reactions:
  • Liz, Sandy’s daughter, describes knowing the outcome as soon as she saw the jurors were crying.
    • "You're not going to cry if you're going to say someone's not guilty." – Liz [04:34]
  • Sandy collapses in disbelief when found guilty.
  • Family members (Marissa, Diana, Tammy) reflect on the devastation and the numbing realization as Sandy is taken away.
  • "My heart just sunk into my stomach." – Liz [06:10]
  • "We all started crying. Liz ran to her to give her like one last hug... And then... Liz fell to the ground." – Diana [06:37]

2. Inside the Jury Room ([08:08–09:46])

• Juror’s Perspective (Aaron Day):
  • Initial jury split: 5 guilty, 4 innocent, 3 undecided.
  • Deliberations involved reading through testimony and evidence repeatedly.
  • "There was hardly nothing there [to prove innocence]. That’s why we kept going to guilty." – Aaron Day [09:19]
  • Aaron didn’t believe the defense's narrative of a home invasion, finding the prosecution’s story more plausible.
  • "They failed to tell me and make me believe she didn’t do it. So I'm like, oh, you're not offering me any..." – Aaron Day [11:40]

3. Defense Response and the Burden of Proof ([12:06–14:50])

• Defense’s View:
  • Max Seacrest (Sandy's lawyer) frustrated with the verdict:
    • "I can't fathom how a group of folks conscientiously could believe beyond a reasonable doubt that the prosecution had proved its case." – Max Seacrest [12:25]
  • Defense team stands firm on their strategic choices, notably not having Sandy testify, citing her health concerns (seizure disorder).
    • Liz had tried to convince her mom to testify despite her illness.
    • "Just have the seizure. Just let them see it. Like, they don’t believe you…" – Liz [14:28]
  • Aaron Day wonders if hearing Sandy declare her innocence could have swayed him:
    • "If she did take the stand and say 'I didn’t do it'... it might have [made a difference]." – Aaron Day [14:50]

4. Sentencing and Its Aftermath ([19:32–22:25])

• Sentencing Hearing:
  • Max Seacrest appeals for leniency, describing Sandy as loving and innocent; prosecution paints Sandy as manipulative.
  • Jury sentences Sandy to 27 years, considering her age (57) and health.
    • "They felt that 27 years was showing her mercy because... she could still have some time with her grandchildren..." – Liz [21:12]
  • Liz remains adamant:
    • "If she was guilty, why would I want to spend time with her? ...There’s no way in hell." – Liz [21:44]
  • Sandy is taken away; Liz struggles to explain the event to her young daughter.
    • "She’s like running down the stairs and she's like 'where’s Nana?' I was like, oh my God, I can't." – Liz [22:25]

5. Life in Prison ([22:46–24:26])

• Prison Experience:

  • Sandy's initial transfer is to the notorious “Hobby Hell” unit, where she feels terrified.
  • Eventually transferred to the Carol S. Young Medical Facility, marginally improving her safety but not her sense of isolation.
    • "All I can think about is my mom... alone and suffering in prison and I get to travel and I get to be with my kids... It just seems wholly unfair." – Liz [24:03]

• Correspondence from Sandy:

  • Sandy describes daily routines, lack of privacy, sleep deprivation, and small comforts. She reminisces about her marriage and continues to profess her innocence.
    • "We had been married 32 years and I know we would still be together if this terrible ordeal had not happened." – Sandy (through Maggie) [27:58]
    • "NO." (in all caps, when asked if she killed Jim) – Sandy (via email) [28:45]

6. Appeals and Legal Setbacks ([33:12–36:20])

• Immediate Appeal Denied:
  • Defense requests a retrial; rejected by a panel of three judges.
• Texas Court of Criminal Appeals:
  • Max Seacrest argues via Zoom in 2021, highlighting lack of direct evidence and the implausibility of Sandy committing the violent murder.
  • "It was built on conjecture, not fact... It doesn't even approach... the rudimentary requirements of due process." – Max Seacrest [35:24]
  • In June 2022, the appeal is denied:
    • "As far as her... direct appeal is concerned, it's exhausted." – Max Seacrest [36:02]

7. Emotional Aftershocks and Trauma ([36:44–39:01])

• Personal Toll on Liz:
  • Liz describes feelings of loss, PTSD, and having become withdrawn:
    • "I don't even feel human anymore. I miss the person that I used to be." – Liz [37:33]
    • "I was very social... now I just...hate being around big groups...I just feel like I'm not fun anymore. I don't know. It's almost like I've died." – Liz [38:18]
  • Cousin Diana shares ongoing trauma every time she sees a police car or the Houston skyline.
    • "I have a bodily reaction. ...I've always thought, like, yeah right, like, you're in jail for a reason. I didn't believe it until this happened to Sandy." – Diana [39:01]

8. The Search for Hope: A New Defense ([40:29–41:37])

• Max Seacrest takes a final shot, contacting Mike Ware, founder of an organization that secured 40 exonerations since 2006.
• Mike Ware's Criteria:
  • Only takes cases where innocence is clear or a crime did not occur as charged.
    • "We have to...be convinced absolutely that they are...absolutely innocent." – Mike Ware [41:37]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jury Mood Telegraphed Verdict:
  • "I already knew why, because people were crying." – Liz [04:34]
• Defense on Burden of Proof:
  • "It’s for [the prosecution] to prove someone is guilty, not the defense to prove their innocence." – Maggie Robinson Katz paraphrasing defense [12:06]
• On Mercy and Parole:
  • "That was their bit of mercy for her." – Liz [21:12]
• Personal Devastation:
  • "I don't even feel human anymore." – Liz [37:33]
  • "It's almost like I've died." – Liz [38:18]
• Lingering Grief:
  • "I have his ashes actually on a counter in my restroom... Whenever I, you know, need some advice, life advice...I just go up to his ashes and start talking to the box." – Marissa & Liz [39:54-40:21]

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Important Timestamps

• 03:25: Setting the courtroom scene as the verdict is about to be read.
• 04:34: Liz and jurors’ reactions to the verdict.
• 06:37: Family collapses in grief after verdict.
• 08:08: Jury member Aaron Day explains the deliberations.
• 12:25: Defense attorney Max Seacrest’s views on the verdict.
• 14:28: Liz on why she wanted Sandy to testify.
• 19:32: Sentencing and explanation for 27-year sentence.
• 22:25: Liz struggles to tell her daughter about Sandy’s absence.
• 23:07: Diana describes prison as "Hobby Hell."
• 27:58: Sandy’s emotional recollections of her marriage.
• 33:12: Appellate journey and failed attempts to overturn conviction.
• 37:33: Liz articulates her PTSD and sense of lost self.
• 40:29: Introduction of Mike Ware, wrongful conviction advocate.

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Tone and Language

The episode maintains a somber yet determined tone, conveying both the emotional devastation of the Melgar family and their persistent hope for justice. The editing preserves the voices of those involved—especially Liz’s pain, Max’s legal frustration, and Sandy’s bewildered perseverance—while also highlighting cold procedural barriers. The conversations are intimate, often wrenching, with moments of dark humor and resilience, especially from the family.

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Conclusion

This episode paints a raw, comprehensive picture of the aftermath of Sandy Melgar’s conviction — how it upended a family, exposed the uncertainties of the criminal justice process, and left those seeking answers grasping for hope amid systemic disappointments. The fight for Sandy’s freedom now rests with potential intervention from wrongful conviction advocates, as the Melgars and their legal team refuse to abandon their pursuit of exoneration.

Next Episode Preview: Will Mike Ware and his organization take on Sandy’s case, and can they make a difference when all other avenues have failed?

Transcript

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Aaron Day]

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[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Hey, I'm Maggie. Just a quick heads up before we start. The series does contain some descriptions of violence and deals with adult themes.

[Max Seacrest]

We're live at the Harris county criminal courthouse.

[Aaron Day]

Channel 2's Lee Ferlici is joining us live downtown with what we're learning from.

[Max Seacrest]

The courtroom as we wait for a.

[Aaron Day]

Verdict in this case.

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LEE so the jury is expected to.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Deliberate for only a few more minutes until about 5:15. Then they'll be back at it again tomorrow morning. It's a hot and humid afternoon in late August 2017 and the court reporters wait en masse for the climax to a story they've been following for years.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Jen we are on verdict watch in.

[Max Seacrest]

The case against 57 year old Sandra Melgar. The jury started deliberating yesterday evening, continued.

[Ryan Reynolds]

To deliberate this morning and in fact.

[Max Seacrest]

Just moments ago took a break.

[Ryan Reynolds]

This is a case.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

After seven and a half hours split over two days, the jury reached a verdict in the State of Texas versus Sandra Jean Melgar. As they file back into the courtroom, Liz scrutinizes their faces, looking for clues.

[Liz]

When they all were called back after they reached their verdict, I already knew why, because people were crying. The juror There were a few people who were crying to me. I was like, you're not going to cry if you're going to say someone's not guilty.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Sandy's attorney, Max Seacrest is also studying each member of the jury.

[Aaron Day]

Normally if you're going to prevail, they'll look at you. They may even grin. But this jury came in, not one of them looked us in the eye.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

With everyone back in the COURTROOM One of the jurors hands a slip of paper to the bailiff, who passes it to the judge. They've reached a unanimous verdict. The defendant, Sandra Jean Melgar is ordered to stand. She shakily moves to her feet, her body supported by her thin wooden cane. The judge clears her throat and reads from the slip of paper. We, the jury find the defendant, Sandra Jean Melgar, guilty of murder as charged in the indictment. Sandy lets out a cry of disbelief and falls back into her chair. For Sandy's friends and family, it feels like the oxygen has been stripped from the room.

[Aaron Day]

They were devastated, crying, and it was just a horrible day.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

There's Sandy's niece Marissa, who was there when she was found.

[Liz]

My heart just sunk into my stomach.

[Max Seacrest]

I could not believe this was happening to her because there was just no way, no way we knew that they got it wrong.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

There's Tammy Armstrong, who consoled Sandy after her police interview.

[Liz]

We're in such shock, and I mean dead silence when they read that verdict.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

And there's Diana, the cousin who was more like a sister.

[Diana]

Sandy started crying immediately. Liz started crying. We all started crying. Liz ran to her to give her like one last hug before they left, before they took her away. And then as soon as that happened, Liz fell to the ground.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

For Liz, it's all a blur, like something out of a horrible nightmare.

[Liz]

It just felt like an out of body experience. And I just remember, like my husband just like grabbed onto me really tightly and he was holding onto me and hugging me. And my mom, I kept telling her, like, it's gonna be okay, like we're gonna figure this out. But I had no idea what I was doing or like what I was even saying or what that meant.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

What? Do you remember how your mom took it?

[Liz]

I mean, she was just in tears. She was just. I mean, it was devastating for everybody.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

But it's not over yet. It's down to the jury to decide how long Sandy will spend in prison. And there's a chance she'll never get out. I'm Maggie Robinson Katz and from BBC Studios and I Heart podcasts, this is Hands Tied, Episode seven, Aftershock.

[Aaron Day]

I think I had heard enough, felt enough that I truly believe that she did it.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

You remember Aaron Day. He was on the jury.

[Aaron Day]

The defendant had the ability to do it even though she doesn't remember doing it. I think that was a convenient defense. Oh, I forgot. Or I don't remember.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

One of the first things they did when they entered the jury room was take a quick count. They'd Heard the prosecution, they heard the defense. Who did they believe? Five of the jurors thought Sandy was guilty, four innocent, and three were undecided.

[Aaron Day]

I was on the guilty side. From the moment we sat down, we talked about it. We were each given time to discuss our feelings and our position. There was a lot of, I don't know, I need to think it through. There was so much information and there were some people going, yes, she did it. There's people saying, no, she didn't.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

And then how did you come to reach the unanimous verdict?

[Aaron Day]

We looked at a lot of the evidence. Again, we looked at a lot of the discussion. We read transcripts, we went over testimony, how we felt about the testimony.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Together, the jurors workshopped Sandy's future.

[Aaron Day]

What evidence could prove that she is innocent of the crime? There was hardly nothing there. That's why we kept going to the guilty. She was there and she had the, the time and ability to do this. And the ones that were unsure listened to us. They changed their mind and they deemed her guilty. And so then we had to say, well, we'll have to tell the world how we feel.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

So what does Aaron think happened that night?

[Aaron Day]

Witnesses painted them as a happy couple to the public, but I don't think she was ever really happy because all the attention that was paid to her husband, he was an elder within the church and being a Latin American, he was very charismatic. I think the murder was an accident. I don't think she purposely tried to murder him. But I think that anger, after years of feeling that way and not discussing it, came out in this alcohol and drug filled rage and it went too far and she killed him.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Honestly, I'm surprised to hear Aaron say this because when I read the court documents, I'm not sure the evidence supports that theory. Sure, Sandy did drink that night. She said she had a pina colada with her meal and two vodkas and Sprite in the Jacuzzi, but also told detectives that she didn't finish the second one.

[Aaron Day]

But drugs, she was on like a myriad of like two, I think were two very mental drugs for her. Lupus are very powerful drugs. And then she had the migraine medicine, which in my mind would be one that you don't drink alcohol with. But that night they had been out drinking.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Did they go through the various medications that she was on and the side effects that they could have?

[Aaron Day]

No, I don't think that defense or prosecution brought any of that up. They just mentioned that she was on drugs.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

But what about what was said in Court, if this is a case about stories, it seems the prosecutions made more sense to Aaron. Sandy was unhappy. She needed to get out of her marriage and therefore resorted to murder. While the defense's argument of a home invasion gone wrong just didn't add up.

[Aaron Day]

They failed to tell me and make me believe she didn't do it. So I'm like, oh, you're not offering me any. Oh, yeah, there was somebody that came in the house. Well, prove it. Where's your proof? Do you have any video that shows somebody going to the house? Any footprints, any fingerprints, any evidence that somebody was there? Did the body have anything on it? The prosecution and the investigators found nothing.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

To Max Seacrest, Sandy's defense attorney. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the justice system. Innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof lies with the prosecution. It's for them to prove someone is guilty, not the defense to prove their innocence.

[Aaron Day]

I don't want to ditz a jury. I respect their verdict here, but I obviously don't agree with it. I can't fathom how a group of folks conscientiously could believe beyond a reasonable doubt that the prosecution had proved its case.

[Max Seacrest]

I mean, this is an absolute tragedy.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Allison Seacrest, Mac's niece and fellow attorney.

[Max Seacrest]

She lost the love of her life, her best friend, her caretaker. I mean, Jim took care of her. He drove her around. There were times where she couldn't even drive because of her seizure disorder and the impact that this had on her daughter and not being able to see her grandchildren grow up. I mean, it's just really wrong.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

What went wrong in the trial, then?

[Aaron Day]

You know, that's only a question that Allison and I ask ourselves every day. I rarely have a day that I don't think about Sandy, and it's hard to answer.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Mac's voice catches. He takes a moment to compose himself. It's clear the whole trial has taken a toll on him, and he's still trying to make sense of how it all played out, the impact of the choices he made. Walk me through the decision to not bring Sandy on the stand to give evidence.

[Aaron Day]

Well, that is an area that I really can't discuss because of attorney client privilege. But I will say this. It was our belief before we tried the case. It's our belief now that obviously she had no burden. So that was a decision made by us, by the lawyers.

[Liz]

I said, maybe you should testify. And she said, I'll have a seizure on the stand. I can't, because she gets when she's stressed, you know, or too tired. Doesn't get enough sleep, you know she will have a seizure. I said, no, just have the seizure. Just let them see it. Like they don't believe you. Just stop taking your medicine and have a seizure. She's like, no, I don't want to prolong this any longer.

[Aaron Day]

I often wonder how I would have felt if she did take the stand and say I didn't do it. Look at the jury and say I didn't do it. Would that have swayed me? It might have. I mean, I can't tell because she didn't choose to tell me directly. She did not murder her husband.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

And though hindsight is always easier in the rearview mirror, Sandy and her defense team have to look to the future and brace for the jury's sentencing.

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[Maggie Robinson Katz]

It's the day after Sandy was found guilty. We're back in the Courtroom and it's time for sentencing. Her attorney, Max Seacrest, asks for leniency. He describes Sandy as a good, caring, loving wife with no criminal history and innocent of the crime she's been convicted of.

[Max Seacrest]

And that's exactly why we're here today, because they drank the Kool Aid of Sandra Melgar.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Prosecutor Colleen Barnett, her words spoken by an actor, requests an appropriate sentence for someone she believes is a calculating killer.

[Max Seacrest]

She's even manipulated her lawyers. She's manipulated her church group. She's manipulated most of the people that she goes around with who believe that she is innocent.

[Aaron Day]

When they made us decide how many years in prison she had to spend, there was a lot of controversy there, being her age and being her physical illnesses. Some people wanted to give her the minimum time, some people wanted to give her the maximum time.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

There is a minimum of five years in prison, with the maximum sentence being life. But Sandy is 57 years old, so there's a very real chance she could die in prison.

[Aaron Day]

So we ended up somewhere in the middle.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Sandy Melgar is sentenced to 27 years behind bars. How did that feel, hearing the sentencing of 27 years?

[Liz]

They felt that 27 years was showing her mercy because with good behavior, you can get out in half the time. So that would be like 13 and a half years. And so they felt that she would be like 70 something and she could still have some time with her grandchildren before she died, and that that was their bit of mercy for her.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

To Liz, if Sandy was guilty, mercy would be the last thing on her mind.

[Liz]

If she's guilty, if she was guilty, why would I want to spend time with her? Why would I want her in my house? Why would I want her around me or my kids? I wouldn't. There's no way in hell.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Was there any hope you had during the trial process that she wouldn't be convicted?

[Liz]

Yeah, I mean, I thought it was really open and shit case, like, I thought that they would present the evidence and they would. People would see what. What it was and they would let her go. You know, we thought we were all going to go home after that.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Liz leaves the courtroom without her mom while Sandy is taken to her cell.

[Liz]

And then, you know, having to go home and explain to my daughter because she's like running down the stairs and she's like, where's Nana? I was like, oh, my God, I can't.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Nearly five years after Jim's death, Sandy begins her sentence. She's taken to the William P. Hobby Unit, a women's prison between Houston and.

[Liz]

Dallas, it was known as Hobby Hell. I've never heard her more terrified.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Sandy's cousin Diana visits as often as she can.

[Diana]

Hobby was an extremely scary place. Sandy got threatened, she got verbally abused. Like even, even my sister and I, when we would go visit, it was a scary place just to go into. The guards were, I don't know, very hard and cold.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

She's eventually moved to a women's medical facility. Carol S. Young I feel better that.

[Diana]

She'S at a medical unit. I mean, there's still a lot of crazy stories that Sandy tells us. You know, there's still drama happening, there's still fear, but I no longer feel that her life is in danger. Whereas in Hobby, I thought we could get a phone call any day saying Sandy's gone because somebody got in a fight. She was in the wrong place, wrong time.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Sandy may be in a better place, but prison is still prison.

[Liz]

All I can think about is my mom laying on this hard prison bed and, and she's alone and suffering in prison and I get to travel and I get to be with my kids and I get to, you know, do as I please. It just seems wholly unfair.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Sandy is still at the medical facility today. I really wanted to interview her in person or even just by phone, but my request was denied by the authorities. So I write to her. I introduce myself and ask her if she'd be okay answering some questions over prison email. A couple weeks later, I get a response. She tells me about the weather, writing, we actually had some snow last week. That's unheard of in Texas especially, so close to the Gulf. We only got about 8 inches, but that's a lot here. LOL. Sandy's warm in her messages, almost light, as well as the occasional lol. There's an old school emoji, you know the one, a colon and a parenthesis making a smiley face. In one email I tell her I went to go visit Liz in London, but don't hear back for a couple weeks. So I send another and then another. And then I finally hear back from her. She tells me she's been called into the supervisor's office to discuss our messages. She writes, they questioned me about the podcast. I told them that I had already informed you that it wasn't allowed and I told them to look at my replies to you. They already had, but they still wanted to question me. Ha. She goes on to detail her day to day life in prison and how difficult it is. Breakfast is at 4am So I don't go because I can't sleep, but three or four hours at night, it's very noisy and things are going on at all hours. You can hear the inmates talking or arguing in the middle of the night or the banging of the bathroom doors or the officer yelling for one of the inmates to get up for one reason or another. I'm not in a cell, we are in cubicles. So it's all. All open to noise and nosy people looking in to see what you have or what you are doing. Zero privacy. In another message, she tells me about her memories of Jim responding to a question I had asked weeks before. I have many great memories of Jim from the time we first met in high school. His sense of humor, his corny jokes, which we called gym jokes. He was a person always willing to help in whatever way he could. He could do just about anything and if he didn't know how, he would learn. Except for Cook, he couldn't cook at all. I miss him terribly and dream of him often. We had been married 32 years and I know we would still be together if this terrible ordeal had not happened. It's an awful nightmare that I haven't woken up from. All I can do is continue to pray and remain hopeful. I reach out again. I have to ask her if she killed Jim and what she thinks happened. I know it's my job, but after this message, I kind of can't help but feel like an asshole if she didn't do it like she claims. This is just putting salt on the wound that she's in prison for a murder she didn't commit. And if she did, well, I guess I shouldn't feel bad about asking her if she did. Sandy eventually writes back, no, she writes in capitals, then goes on to repeat some of what she already told me, that she and Jim had a great relationship, adding that they had plans to travel, go see the Northern lights, visit Ireland, see Machu Picchu in Peru. In many ways, me writing to Sandy isn't your typical interview. In fact, it really isn't an interview at all. I have so many questions about what happened that night in December and how her version differs from what we heard in the trial. But there's no real back and forth. But, you know, in the end, it actually really doesn't matter what I think. It's up to the legal system. And right now, Sandy's defense team are refusing to give up.

[Aaron Day]

We contended that, you know, the verdict was based on conjecture and speculation, not evidence sufficient to establish her guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

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[Maggie Robinson Katz]

After the shock of losing the trial, Sandy's attorneys, Mack and Allison Seacrest, regroup and decide to fight on. They're determined to write what they see as a miscarriage of justice and get Sandy's verdict overturned.

[Aaron Day]

We're personally wrapped up in it and we take it personally. We know Sandy, we believe in Sandy, and we take it personally because we're in the middle of it. We're part of the process and so we've never, you know, shirked that.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

They call for a retrial, but the request is denied. A panel of three judges uphold Sandy's conviction, ruling that there was enough evidence to convict her. But Mack fights on and takes the case to the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals.

[Max Seacrest]

Oh yay. Oh yay.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Oh yay. The Honorable Court of Criminal Appeals is now in session.

[Max Seacrest]

We are ready to hear our argument.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Almost four years after Sandy's conviction, Max Seacrest is back in court. Well, sort of.

[Aaron Day]

Good morning to the court I'm George McCall Seacrest Jr.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

It's 2021, you know, you remember the pandemic. And because of it, Mac is presenting his arguments to a panel of nine senior judges over Zoom.

[Aaron Day]

I don't believe the evidence that you have shows that the state proved that Sandy Melgar killed her husband. The state proved that she was present.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Each of the nine judges appear in their own box on the screen, Mack in another. And then there's a digital timer in a box all of its own. Mack has 20 minutes for his arguments. A red light will warn him when his time is up.

[Aaron Day]

He was viciously assaulted. He was beaten, consistent with being hit with a fist, consistent with being kicked. It's just not plausible under the circumstances that she could have caused that type of injury.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

As the timer ticks down, he tells what's now a familiar story. Mac goes through the prosecution's case arguing it was built on conjecture, not fact.

[Aaron Day]

It doesn't even approach that which can safely say, comports with the rudimentary requirements of due process of law.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

The timer light turns red. An alarm buzzes, signifying his time is up.

[Aaron Day]

Thank you, counsel. Thank you so much.

[Max Seacrest]

The court will stand in recess until 10 o'. Clock.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

He signs off Zoom. And waits.

[Aaron Day]

They sat on it and sat on it and then ultimately they dismissed the case.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

That was in June 2022. So in layman's terms, what does that mean?

[Aaron Day]

That means we lost on appeal. Ultimately, the court did not review Sandy's case, so her conviction is affirmed. What it means is, as far as her quote unquote direct appeal is concerned, it's exhausted.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

I asked Liz how her mom felt about the judges to decision.

[Liz]

She really got her hopes up. And I kept telling her, like, you know, 90% of the time this is going to get denied. And I don't want you to like fall into despair if that happens. And of course that happened. And she just, it really hit her, you know, she sent her into severe depression.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

This really hits Liz too. She feels like she's lost both of her parents and now the legal process is all over. She no longer has the case to distract her from her feelings of grief.

[Liz]

Like, I had basically obsessed over the case file. Like when I reached the end, I would just start all over and see what I'd missed. Or I would blow up all the photos on my computer and look inch by inch, like all over to see if there were any clues missed, any evidence. I don't know if that was like shock or just knowing that these things had to be done. And I didn't have time to break down.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Liz finds herself at rock bottom.

[Liz]

Once everything got handed over and there was nothing left to do, that's when it got difficult. And that's, I think, when I realized I had really bad ptsd. I don't even feel human anymore. I miss the person that I used to be.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

If it's okay to talk about, like, what are some of the things, like, you remember about how you used to be contrasting with how you are now?

[Max Seacrest]

I.

[Liz]

I was very social. I could talk my way in or out of any situation.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

I could still see that now, to be honest. Like, I can totally see that now.

[Liz]

But, like, now I just. I hate being around big groups of people. I don't trust anyone. I just feel like I'm not fun anymore. I don't know. It's almost like I've died.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Do you ever allow yourself to feel hopeless?

[Max Seacrest]

No.

[Liz]

No.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

The ricochet effect of any crime can create fallout, impacting the lives of not just those who were directly involved, but their family and friends. It's not only Liz who has been impacted. It's all of Sandy and Jim's friends and relatives, including her cousin Diana.

[Diana]

Anytime I see a cop car behind me, like, I have a bodily reaction. Like, I start sweating. I start. I just. I have that fear. And even. Same thing with Houston. Like, I used to love Houston because Sandy and Jim were there. I loved it. And now I see the downtown skyline, and it turns my stomach because I have the memories of the trial. I was one of those people that I would hear people say, you know, that people in jail claim they didn't do it, right? Like, I'm innocent. I'm innocent. And I've always thought, like, yeah, right, like, you're in jail for a reason. I didn't believe it until this happened to Sandy.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

And Liz's cousin Marissa, who was there the day Jim was found. To this day, Uncle Jim is still a central part of her life.

[Max Seacrest]

I have his ashes actually on a counter in my restroom. And so I.

[Liz]

Whenever I, you know, need some advice, life advice. Because that's what my uncle was really.

[Max Seacrest]

Good at, just life in general.

[Liz]

Whenever I'm feeling down, whenever anything really.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Happy news, I just go up to.

[Max Seacrest]

His ashes and I start talking to the box. And I know that might sound weird to some people, but it just makes me feel like he's with us.

[Liz]

And he is. I know he's with us.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

What's that expression? The darkest hour is just before the dawn. Well, Max Seacrest hasn't quite given up. He picks up the phone and makes one last call, one last throw of the dice, one last attempt to help Sandy. But it's a slim chance the man he's calling might not be able to help them. Dang, he might not even pick up the phone.

[Aaron Day]

I did not know him. So it was kind of a cold call.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

The person Mack rings is Mike Ware, a criminal defense lawyer.

[Aaron Day]

He talked about how much this case meant to him and how there was no doubt in his mind that Sandy was completely innocent.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Mike founded an organization in Texas which has got 40 people exonerated since 2006.

[Aaron Day]

He knew of us and our work and wanted us to take on the case.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Mike Ware helps people who are all out of options, but he only takes on a fraction of the cases that come to him. Will he take on Sandy's we have.

[Aaron Day]

To, through whatever means be convinced absolutely that they are in fact absolutely innocent. And by that I mean that either the crime they were convicted of occurred pretty much as the police, the witnesses, the prosecution says it happened. It's just they are not the ones who committed was someone else or in some cases no crime at all was committed by anyone.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

That's next time on Hands Tied. You've been listening to hands tied from BBC Studios and iHeart podcasts. New episodes will be released weekly so subscribe or follow follow on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss out. If you like the show, please help us by spreading the word or giving us a five star review. I'm Maggie Robinson Katz and the producer is Maggie Latham. Sound design in mix is by Tom Brignall. Our script consultant is Emma Weatherill. Production support is from Dan Marche, Elena Boateng and Mabel Finnegan Wright and our production executive is Laura Jordan Rowell. The series was developed by Anya Saunders and emma Shaw. At iHeart the managing executive producer is Christina Everett and for BBC Studios the executive producer is Joe Kent. James Cook is the creative director of factual for BBC Studios Audio and the and the director of audio at BBC Studios is Richard Knight.

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[Max Seacrest]

Thursday Night Football is on.

[Aaron Day]

And it's only on Prime Video. Infinite Touchdown this Thursday in Prime AFC east rivalry ignites at the Miami Dolphins.

[Max Seacrest]

Battle the Buffalo Bills in a heated division showdown.

[Liz]

Boom.

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Right on the money.

[Aaron Day]

Coverage begins at 7pm Eastern with Football's Best Party TNF tonight presented by Verizon. Not a Prime member. Not a problem.

[Max Seacrest]

Simply sign up for a 30 day free trial.

[Aaron Day]

Today it's the Dolphins and the bills. Thursday at 7pm Eastern only on Prime Video.

[Max Seacrest]

Restrictions apply.

[Aaron Day]

See Amazon.com amazonprime for details.

[Max Seacrest]

This is an iHeart podcast.