Hands Tied – Episode 8: Hope?

Hosted by Maggie Robinson Katz | iHeartPodcasts & BBC Studios | Aired: September 24, 2025

Overview

This emotionally charged finale explores the pain, perseverance, and flickers of hope for Liz Melgar Rose and her family, as they fight for justice for her mother, Sandy Melgar. Wrongly convicted, Sandy has spent years in prison for the murder of her husband Jim. In this episode, host Maggie Katz joins Liz, her husband Anthony, and members of Sandy’s legal team as they learn of a remarkable new DNA development. The episode is also a meditation on family, cultural heritage, and the toll of trauma—even as the Melgars refuse to stop fighting.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Life Interrupted: Liz, Anthony & Family Loss

• [03:30] Maggie sits with Liz and her British husband Anthony in their South London home, painting a life interrupted by tragedy but framed in warmth and partnership.
• [05:41] Anthony describes learning of Jim Melgar’s murder and the ensuing chaos:

  "I just remember shock. It's just like kind of like getting hit by a car... And it was like a very super chaotic time. Yeah, it was pure chaos."

• [07:02] Anthony voices anger at the injustice:

  "It's unambiguous to me that she's wrongly convicted. And it's overwhelmingly obvious [...] it's staggering that this level of incompetence was allowed to be played out."

• [08:21] The ripple effect on their children and extended family is profound. Anthony notes his daughter’s enduring pain about losing her grandmother Sandy.

2. The Deep Toll of Grief

• [09:11] Maggie reflects on her own loss, finding kinship with Liz over the shared experience of parental death. She recognizes Liz’s daily endurance:

  "She walks this grief every single day. And in many ways, she's lost both of her parents."

• [11:03] Liz and Anthony express gratitude and the first feelings of hope—thanks to support from the Innocence Project of Texas.

3. Pursuing Justice: The Innocence Project of Texas Steps In

• [14:24] Mike Ware, co-founder of the Innocence Project of Texas, explains their mission and his reaction to Sandy’s case.

  "The accusations were unique and on their face. To me, ridiculous and preposterous." — Mike Ware [15:01]

• [15:09-15:49] Ware discusses the jury verdict and how stories can overshadow facts in trials.

  "Sometimes I think people prefer to believe the more elaborate and interesting story rather than the more logical and perhaps less interesting story." — Mike Ware [15:13]

• [16:27] The team prepares a writ of habeas corpus, a longshot appeal requiring truly new and convincing evidence.

4. The DNA Breakthrough

• [17:19] Attorney and forensic scientist Chase Baumgartner describes the limitations of DNA evidence from the original investigation.
• [19:20] Liz is called with major news: new testing found an unknown DNA profile on the murder weapon—one that excludes all family members, including Sandy.

  "But they found an unknown DNA profile on that knife handle, and they compared it to your whole family, to your mom, to you, to your relatives and everything. And no matches. Everyone was excluded." — Mike Ware [19:25]

• [20:06] Mike connects this unknown DNA to the core of Sandy’s defense:

  "The fact there's an unknown person who's not her, who's not Jim, who's not a family member, who's not a neighbor who's not on this murder weapon. Supports her theory, potentially even proves her theory that an unknown person was wielding this knife when they killed Jim."

• [21:05] The unknown DNA also appears on a bloodied stool from the crime scene, strengthening the theory of an outside perpetrator.

5. Guarded Optimism and Endurance

• [22:01] Mike and Chase stress that DNA could be “the clincher” for Sandy’s case:

  "The DNA shows that's a lie." — Chase Baumgartner [22:01]

• [22:43] Liz asks Mike Ware if he still believes in justice, despite years of setbacks:

  "The answer is, yes, I absolutely do. I think the truth has a power all its own... The pursuit of justice. I'm not sure there's a nobler pursuit." — Mike Ware [23:07]

• [24:05] Liz is cautiously hopeful:

  "I just don't have any expectation that this is just how it is. And so if things don't go well, then I wasn't expecting it. And if things do go well, then it's even better, right, because I wasn't expecting anything. So for me, I'm just waiting. I have information, and I'm gonna wait until I have more."

6. Hope on the Horizon

• [24:59] The family, not giving up, offers a $100,000 reward for any information that could free Sandy.

7. Cultural Heritage, Healing & Resistance

• [27:56] The episode closes with Liz getting a traditional tattoo. The session is depicted as ceremony and ritual, connecting Liz to her Guatemalan heritage, her father, and ancestral resilience.
• [32:22] Liz’s words on trauma and tattooing:

  "Today was a rough day. I definitely didn't want to leave my bed or my house today, but I definitely did want to get this done. Sometimes my brain just takes over and nothing helps. So, yeah, I think that's just trauma."

• [33:06] On what the tattoo means:

  "Just something to kind of help me keep going when stuff gets hard. And it's just like, really nice that I was able to meet up with somebody who is able to do this in a way that is kind of like the way that our ancestors would have done."

• [33:38] Liz frames her struggle as part of a lineage of fighters, never diminishing the hardship her ancestors endured.

8. Closing Reflections

• [34:12 - 35:00] Maggie observes the tattoo’s shape—evoking DNA’s double helix—and wonders if scientific evidence will indeed unlock justice for Sandy and peace for Liz.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Anthony (on the shock of the murder):

  "You have this thing come at you, this piece of information that you couldn't have expected...it was like a very super chaotic time. Yeah, it was pure chaos." [05:41]

• Mike Ware (on wrongful conviction):

  "Despite all the rhetoric, it is so much easier to convict a completely innocent person than it is to exonerate a completely innocent person once they've been convicted." [15:49]

• Chase Baumgartner (on DNA potential):

  "DNA could be the clincher for Sandy's case because it shows the state's theory that there was no one else in the house is false. The whole theory was based on that." [22:01]

• Liz (on hope and waiting):

  "For me, I'm just waiting. I have information, and I'm gonna wait until I have more. My mom, however, gets her hopes up very easily." [24:05]

• Mike Ware (on justice):

  "The truth has a power all its own, and I think it will eventually surface if you stick with the case... The pursuit of justice. I'm not sure there's a nobler pursuit." [23:07]

• Liz (on healing through tradition):

  "It shows who my dad was or where he came from, so that's important to me. I didn't appreciate it when I was a kid, and now it's something I'm immensely proud of..." [31:54]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Theme | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------| | 03:30 | Introduction to Liz, Anthony, and their life in London | | 05:41 | Anthony on receiving news of Jim Melgar’s death | | 07:02 | Anthony’s anger at justice system and its failures | | 11:03 | Liz and Anthony on hope via Innocence Project | | 14:24 | Mike Ware & Innocence Project’s involvement | | 17:19 | Advances in DNA testing explained by Chase Baumgartner | | 19:20 | Discovery of unknown DNA on murder weapon | | 21:05 | Unknown DNA also found elsewhere at the crime scene | | 22:43 | Liz questions the reality of justice | | 24:59 | Family offers $100,000 reward | | 27:56 | Traditional tattooing session—heritage and healing | | 34:12 | Reflection on DNA as hope—ending thoughts |

Tone & Language

The episode is equal parts investigative, personal, and reflective. Maggie narrates with deep empathy, balancing the clinical processes of DNA testing and legal work with intimate moments in the Melgar family’s ongoing grief. Liz is candid, sometimes darkly funny, and utterly resilient. The legal team is measured, dogged, yet hopeful. The overall mood acknowledges suffering but is underpinned by the barest but most vital thing: hope.