Penn Jillette asks about the placebo effect

Summary

Podcast Episode Summary: "Handsome" - Penn Jillette Asks About the Placebo Effect

Episode Information:

• Title: Penn Jillette asks about the placebo effect
• Host/Author: Headgum
• Release Date: January 14, 2025

---

Introduction to the Episode

In this engaging episode of Handsome, hosts Mae Martin, Fortune Feimster, and Tig Notaro delve into the intriguing topic of the placebo effect, prompted by a thoughtful question from renowned magician and entertainer Penn Jillette. The conversation seamlessly blends scientific insights with personal anecdotes, humor, and candid discussions about belief and mental well-being.

---

Penn Jillette's Question: Understanding the Placebo Effect

The episode pivots around a question posed by Penn Jillette, who draws parallels between the placebo effect and magic tricks:

• Penn Jillette [35:14]: "Scientists have shown the placebos work even when the subject knows it's a placebo... What do you have in your life that you know is bullshit, that you know is not true, and yet you believe in it, and it helps you?"

Penn challenges the hosts to reflect on the personal "placebos" they use—beliefs or practices they recognize as non-substantive but find beneficial.

---

Defining the Placebo Effect

The hosts explore the nuances of the placebo effect, discussing how belief alone can manifest tangible improvements in one's well-being:

• Fortune Feimster [39:15]: "If you mentally feel better, then it can have effects on you physically."

• Mae Martin [39:19]: "I'm staying at the wrong hotels, you know." (Referring to comfort foods and routines as personal placebos)

---

Hosts' Personal Placebos

Each host shares their unique "placebo," revealing how these beliefs or habits aid their mental and emotional health:

1. Tig Notaro:

   • Health and Diet: Tig discusses his commitment to a nutrient-dense diet, attributing significant improvements in pain management and overall well-being to his dietary changes, even acknowledging that not all benefits may be scientifically verifiable.
     • Tig Notaro [47:02]: "I feel so much better, and I can't say enough about it."
   • Praying During Illness: Reflecting on his experience in 2012, Tig mentions how praying during a critical illness served as a mental placebo that contributed to his recovery.
     • Tig Notaro [47:02]: "I was praying, and I had never done that before, and I felt like it was going to help me."

2. Fortune Feimster:

   • Pet as a Placebo: Fortune credits her pet, Jax, as her primary placebo, highlighting the emotional comfort and stress relief Jax provides.
     • Fortune Feimster [44:54]: "Jax is my placebo."
   • Superstitions and Rituals: While Fortune explores minimal superstitions, she acknowledges the calming effect of certain rituals, like preparing comfort foods.
     • Fortune Feimster [48:52]: "I eat pad Thai. That makes me feel better."

3. Mae Martin:

   • Journaling and Mindfulness: Mae shares her practices of journaling and naming countries as techniques to manage stress and maintain mental clarity.
     • Mae Martin [10:37]: "I like to do that."
   • Comfort Foods: Similar to Fortune, Mae finds solace in familiar and comforting foods, serving as her personal placebo.
     • Mae Martin [48:52]: "I eat pad Thai. That's not a placebo. That's truly comforting."

---

Belief, Magic, and Placebos

The conversation takes an intriguing turn as the hosts liken the placebo effect to magic tricks, emphasizing the power of belief:

• Mae Martin [38:21]: "Crystals or like... spells... weird shit that I read about just for fun."

• Tig Notaro [36:53]: Reflecting on magic performances, Tig draws parallels between the illusion of magic and the mental constructs of placebos.

  • "It's fascinating... how do they do it?"

This comparison underscores the idea that the efficacy of a placebo may stem from the belief in its power, much like the audience's belief in the magic trick's illusion.

---

Confronting Skepticism and Embracing Personal Truths

Penn Jillette's question also touches on the balance between skepticism and personal belief. The hosts discuss the importance of finding what resonates personally, regardless of external validation:

• Tig Notaro [52:37]: Emphasizes the need for a "North Star" belief system to sustain a healthy lifestyle.

  • "You have to be really, really sold on what your North Star is."

• Fortune Feimster [50:34]:

  • "I drink my green juice and I'm like, I'm so healthy right now."

This segment highlights how personal beliefs and practices, even if partially unfounded, can lead to positive behavioral changes and self-improvement.

---

The Intersection of Placebos and Daily Life

The discussion extends to everyday habits and how they serve as modern-day placebos:

• Mae Martin [46:17]: Mentions vitamins as a potential placebo.

  • "Maybe vitamins. Like, you know, they're like vitamins. You just pee them out."

• Fortune Feimster [46:23]: Links comfort foods to genuine emotional support rather than placebo.

  • "That's truly my comfort food."

This exploration differentiates between behaviors that merely provide comfort and those that actively contribute to well-being through belief-driven mechanisms.

---

Conclusion: Embracing Personal Placebos for Well-being

The episode wraps up with the hosts reflecting on the significance of personal placebos in maintaining mental and emotional health. They acknowledge that while not all placebos are scientifically validated, their subjective benefits play a crucial role in personal well-being.

• Mae Martin [52:31]: Expresses a hopeful outlook towards adopting more structured placebos in the future.

  • "I'm hoping I'll just arrive there and unconnected to anyone of my behavior, I'll just suddenly be like, oh, I'm here now. I'm a vegan."

• Fortune Feimster [54:02]: Reiterates the emotional support received from personal relationships.

  • "He’s my best. Just. I just stare at him. And all that stress goes away."

The conversation concludes on a positive note, emphasizing the importance of intentional belief systems and supportive relationships in fostering a healthier, more balanced life.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Fortune Feimster [39:15]: "If you mentally feel better, then it can have effects on you physically."
• Tig Notaro [47:28]: "I was praying, and I had never done that before, and I felt like it was going to help me."
• Mae Martin [46:17]: "Maybe vitamins. Like, you know, they're like vitamins. You just pee them out."
• Fortune Feimster [44:54]: "Jax is my placebo."
• Tig Notaro [52:37]: "You have to be really, really sold on what your North Star is."

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of Handsome offers a comprehensive exploration of the placebo effect, intertwining scientific understanding with personal narratives. The hosts' candid discussions illuminate how belief and intentional practices can shape one's mental and physical health, encouraging listeners to reflect on their own "placebos" and the role of belief in their lives.

Transcript

[Mae Martin]

Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate First.

[Fortune Feimster]

Like, you know how to check what time your reservation is before heading out for a night on the town at that trendy new restaurant?

[Mae Martin]

Yeah. Check in first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. This content is intended for audiences in the US Only. Savings vary terms apply Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois this is a headgum podcast. Handsome Chatting with friends on the Handsome Pod Chat with Friends on the Handsome Pod Cheers. Welcome to the Handsome Pod. I'm Mae Martin, one of your handsome hosts. I'm joined, as always, by my handsome co hosts.

[Fortune Feimster]

Oh, oh, oh.

[Mae Martin]

It finally happened.

[Fortune Feimster]

Tignataro Fortune Feimster. We're together again, you guys.

[Tig Notaro]

We sure are. You guys take.

[Mae Martin]

You're hard to read at the best of times. And this. If you go to YouTube, this addition to your appearance today just adds to the mystique and the intrigue because you really can't tell what you're feeling.

[Tig Notaro]

You can't tell what I'm feeling in general. Are you saying.

[Fortune Feimster]

Well, it looks like you're solving crimes.

[Tig Notaro]

I know, but I'm talking about in a general sense. Not today on the podcast, but in a general sense, you can't tell what I'm feeling ever.

[Mae Martin]

No, I can tell what you're feeling. But you. You're. You. You have a. An occasionally, a deadpan kind of. I don't know, something about the mustache just takes it to another level of.

[Tig Notaro]

You just blew it for everybody. Everybody now knows I have a mustache. I have to say, I had a different mustache on earlier, and then when I ripped that off, I ripped my actual tig mustache off of my upper lip.

[Mae Martin]

Oh, my God.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah, it's like, ow, Ow.

[Mae Martin]

That could be a good business. Like wax your mustache with another mustache.

[Tig Notaro]

With a mustache.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah. Mustache on mustache, but it's blonde, so you can't see it.

[Tig Notaro]

Okay, somebody's bragging.

[Mae Martin]

I. I really thought I would start, because I'm on testosterone. I thought I would start growing something, but I haven't.

[Tig Notaro]

Do you want to.

[Mae Martin]

You know what's weird? No, I. I don't want to have facial hair, but I want to shave. I want it to grow so I can shave it, because I want the experience of looking in the mirror and shaving. You know what I mean? Like Macaulay Culkin in Home Alone.

[Tig Notaro]

You could do that, though. You don't have to wait for hair to show up. You can just shave your face.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah. But I'll know that it's a charade. Charade. Charade.

[Fortune Feimster]

Charade.

[Tig Notaro]

My. My apartment here in Toronto faces windows in another building and people, and it's really not far at all, if you want to see.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah, we'd love to. Oh, yeah. Right in there.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. So people are just coming and going, and I have different mustaches on, and.

[Fortune Feimster]

Y'All are looking at each other.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

When I was in New York, was on a very tall floor, and I looked out to see the beautiful water that was in front of me. And to the left was another tall building, and a guy got out of his. And this had happened to when Jax and I were together before, and it happened again. The guy got out of his bathtub all full wiener.

[Mae Martin]

Really?

[Tig Notaro]

Wait, what?

[Fortune Feimster]

Full wiener?

[Mae Martin]

Okay. And what did he look.

[Tig Notaro]

What do you mean?

[Fortune Feimster]

Like he. You know, you can see another apartment.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

In New York, because.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

And this guy had just his.

[Tig Notaro]

For you.

[Fortune Feimster]

No, not for me. No.

[Tig Notaro]

Okay.

[Fortune Feimster]

And I don't know why I said bathtub. He got a. It was a shower. He got out of the shower, and he didn't have any curtains or. Or they weren't closed.

[Mae Martin]

I think he wanted to be seen.

[Fortune Feimster]

And he sounds like was. And he went up to the window.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah, that's. That checks out.

[Fortune Feimster]

Cleaner.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, it was. For you. It was.

[Fortune Feimster]

No, he didn't know. He didn't know I was on the 14th floor looking.

[Tig Notaro]

He knew it. He could feel it. And is that the only time you've seen one? Aside from the hot flute?

[Fortune Feimster]

Well, ironically enough, when I was in New York, another time that happened. A guy.

[Mae Martin]

I'm staying. I'm staying at the wrong hotels, you know.

[Fortune Feimster]

You would enjoy seeing that.

[Mae Martin]

Of course.

[Fortune Feimster]

Just a wiener in the wild.

[Mae Martin]

Well, yeah. Through the safety window across the street. Yeah. I like. I like the idea of kind of seeing what people are up to.

[Tig Notaro]

This is all floppy, and that's what they are.

[Fortune Feimster]

Weird.

[Tig Notaro]

I mean, I've heard.

[Mae Martin]

Guys, I. I have a bit of a mystery going on, and I kind of.

[Fortune Feimster]

Tig will solve it.

[Mae Martin]

I don't know if this company over there. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if this is a company that sponsors our podcast, and if it is, I kind of don't want to know, because then it's not a mystery at all. But I've received a box to my Airbnb, and it's a box of baked goods, I want to say. And they're like. Some of them are raw. They need to be baked. I'll show you some of what we're talking about. So we got croissants that need to go in the oven.

[Fortune Feimster]

Wait, is this Wild Grain? Because they're. They truly are amazing.

[Mae Martin]

Yes, this is Wild Grain. Wait, but are they.

[Tig Notaro]

Are they sponsor?

[Fortune Feimster]

They are sponsors.

[Mae Martin]

No. And they have thought I had a secret admirer.

[Fortune Feimster]

No, there are sponsors, and they have some of the best chocolate chip cookies. I'm telling you, you'll ever have. Jax. Jack's orders. She'll order a thing of stuff just to get the cookies.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah. Wow. Well, I truly was like, maybe it's my ex.

[Fortune Feimster]

It's great. You freeze the.

[Tig Notaro]

Sending you raw croissants.

[Fortune Feimster]

You got to put the bread in the freezer. But then when you want bread, you. It's there, and it's. It's really good. I'm not just saying this because there are sponsors, but I was.

[Tig Notaro]

This would be, like, a really late for the commercials.

[Mae Martin]

This would be such an elaborate.

[Fortune Feimster]

They're really bad for them. I just love that you thought someone's, like, sending you a bunch of bread and croissants.

[Mae Martin]

It was like the beginning of some. Yeah. Rom com. Some mystery.

[Tig Notaro]

Do you guys want to go into how much you love Allstate Insurance?

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah, yeah, guys, I love Allstate.

[Tig Notaro]

They're good. They're good.

[Fortune Feimster]

Would that have made a difference if someone had sent you those as a dough gift?

[Tig Notaro]

Frozen dough.

[Mae Martin]

I'd love to be sent any gift. I feel like I send a lot of gifts. That's, like my love language. Yeah. Like, I like to send it a gift, and the only thing that shows up in my door is weird stuff I ordered on Amazon overnight.

[Tig Notaro]

Frozen Dough.

[Mae Martin]

And our sponsors, it turns out. Yeah. Yeah. Did you say a vibrator? Fortune Marie.

[Fortune Feimster]

What? Who said that?

[Tig Notaro]

Fortune Marie. Do not talk about anything vibrating. Except the friendship between the three of us.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah. Which is vibrating on a high level. High frequencies.

[Fortune Feimster]

Thanks to Tig, I treaded water again this morning.

[Tig Notaro]

You did?

[Fortune Feimster]

Two days in a row now.

[Mae Martin]

Nice.

[Tig Notaro]

Goodness, kid.

[Mae Martin]

How was it?

[Fortune Feimster]

I was out of town for, like, three weeks. So it's not like I purposely wasn't doing it. I just was out of town, and now I'm back. And the first day I was back, I didn't, but the next two days, I have.

[Mae Martin]

That's amazing.

[Tig Notaro]

Love it. And you know what? I think I told you this, May. I was at the Rufus Wainwright concert and met the people that ran the theater, and they said they were friends with your parents.

[Mae Martin]

Oh, yes. Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

And the woman said she now treads water.

[Mae Martin]

Really?

[Fortune Feimster]

Look at you, Tig. You never treading water.

[Tig Notaro]

She said, I'm in with the big Hollywood fad. I was like, this is not a Hollywood fad.

[Fortune Feimster]

This is a big activity that we.

[Tig Notaro]

Caught on to a lesbian or lgbtq. I don't know what's going on. It's a handsome fad, but I don't think it's taken over Hollywood. It should, because it's. It's. You know, I know you listen to podcasts when you do it, but it's meditative still. It's like.

[Fortune Feimster]

It's very meditative.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. And it moves your whole body. You're working all your muscles. And I do it silently and, you know, think myself into corners. And I do need it for the.

[Fortune Feimster]

Medit, because I. I don't think I have the patience to, like, just sit and meditate, like, in silence. For some reason. I do need to be doing something, but I have a very, like, active brain in that it gets a little OCD sometimes, like, where I take something and it runs in my head and I can't get it to stop.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

And I, like, fixate on things, and especially when my special came out, I start fixating on things. Like, what did I do? This right? What was. Does the color Right. This. This. And I would have to make myself get into the pool, and, like, as I'm treading water, it'd be like, let go, let go. Just let go. Let God, like, be present. Everything's good. And it really does help with my. My brain, too.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

I. One million percent. Man. My brain feels so good. My whole body feels so loose. Do you get that feeling of, like, you're just. I don't know. I feel so good. Anyway, it was just so fun that she said that she's treading water now.

[Fortune Feimster]

That's cool.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

Do you guys have an active, like, a brain that fixates or. I don't know if that was a comic thing or.

[Mae Martin]

Yes, I got a brain that fixates. Of course. Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Are you really asking me this?

[Mae Martin]

I do. And then I find, like.

[Tig Notaro]

I do, too.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah. Certain things. I mean, we've talked before about, like, I'm not sure about. About if meditation works for me, but doing an activity while, like. Like, walking meditation, maybe. But there are things that I do that calm me down, like naming all the countries of the world. I like to do that.

[Tig Notaro]

Mm. You're like, Finn, does he.

[Mae Martin]

Does he name the countries?

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, he knows the countries. He knows the U.S. capitals.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

I Should send you a video of him. He loves like Max and Finn. Watch Jeopardy and those kind of games.

[Mae Martin]

Okay. We need to hang out with. I. I think we'd really get along, me and them, because we could just name the countries he knows.

[Tig Notaro]

All of the flags of the world.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah. That's incredible.

[Tig Notaro]

All of the flags. So that's nice.

[Mae Martin]

I think that's my next challenge.

[Tig Notaro]

I will send you that video.

[Mae Martin]

I'm getting competitive with an 8 year old now. Well, I guess.

[Tig Notaro]

But that soothes you. Is naming all of the countries of the world.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah, yeah. Journaling as well. Like if I force myself before bed to write, just stream a conscious a couple of pages and in the morning about what I'm stressed about instead of just going on my phone. That's helpful.

[Tig Notaro]

Sometimes for me it's just music. It's just like at our office we have a record player and there have been times when I've gone over there and it's like not just plug in your headphones, listen to music. There's something so relaxing and in the moment for me to put on a record and listen to a record.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

And then it ends. You get up and. And I don't know. It's a heightened level of appreciation, I think, for it and flipping the record and then lying on the couch and listening to it and not looking at anything, just staring out the window or the ceiling.

[Mae Martin]

Oh, man.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, that. That I think puts me in a. In a good place. But I mean, I don't have that kind of time to always be lying on a couch in my office flipping records. But I just got the test.

[Mae Martin]

I got like the test press of my vinyl record for my album and it feels crazy. I still don't understand how you can take a sound from the air and put it onto plastic.

[Tig Notaro]

I think about that all the time and I can't stand it. How does it happen?

[Mae Martin]

I think like, oh, I'm hearing the atmosphere of Abbey Road and all that, like. And. Because it doesn't make any sense, but.

[Tig Notaro]

And then they transfer to another one.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

And then everyone's got them and then it. Then they press play at a. On a radio station.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Even photographs.

[Mae Martin]

Oh, don't get me started.

[Tig Notaro]

Don't get me started. I can't stand it.

[Mae Martin]

Me neither.

[Tig Notaro]

I can't stand it. How did that happen?

[Mae Martin]

But there's something particularly weird about a vinyl because it feels so, like rudimentary, almost like. Like that we're just taking a very sharp little point and then we're spinning it on the Thing. And then all of a sudden, I'm in Abbey Road and I'm hearing something from the 70s. Like, it's so insane. But I don't have a vinyl player, so I can't listen to my own album.

[Fortune Feimster]

Well, you got.

[Tig Notaro]

It would have been from the 60s, but yes, true.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

They're not expensive.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah, I know. They got them at, like, Urban Outfitters.

[Fortune Feimster]

Urban Outfitters, Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

You know what is so funny? Like, in the 80s and 70s, when you got a record player, it was so cool to have one that stacked up high. And the speakers were huge.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

And, like, took up so much space. Huge speakers.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah.

[Mae Martin]

You know?

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. And now it's like the size of your. I mean, it's your phone.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

When you do the Kelly Clarkson show, they always give you a record, and it's a different one every time. And I've done her show 10 times now, so I've gotten 10 different records.

[Mae Martin]

Really?

[Fortune Feimster]

And what are the records? Dolly Parton was one, and this latest one was Chapel Roan. And I was traveling for, like, two and a half weeks, and I got the record at the beginning of those travels. So for two and a half weeks, I'm like, I really want this. This vinyl. I want to listen to Chapel's record on. On the vinyl. And so I was like, having to maneuver this record for almost three weeks to not break it. I'm like, even though I could buy another one, I'm just like, don't break this record.

[Tig Notaro]

Well. And yet there are times in life where it's like you want to break the record. You know what I'm saying?

[Fortune Feimster]

You know? You know?

[Mae Martin]

You know what I mean?

[Tig Notaro]

You're a record breaker. Yeah. You see what I'm saying?

[Fortune Feimster]

Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate first.

[Mae Martin]

Like, you know, to check and make sure you got your popcorn exactly how you like it before you hit play on a new movie you've been wanting to watch.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah. Check in first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. This content is intended for audiences in the US Only. Savings vary terms apply. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois.

[Mae Martin]

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[Fortune Feimster]

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[Mae Martin]

Luxuriate and coziness without the luxury price tag. Go to quince.com handsome for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com handsome to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com handsome have you guys ever been to a, a rec room where you smash stuff?

[Fortune Feimster]

No.

[Tig Notaro]

No.

[Fortune Feimster]

It's a part of that like getting out aggression, right?

[Mae Martin]

Yeah. I mean it feels crazy to say when it's like people are starving in the world, but yeah, you go and you, they give you a bat and you can break old TVs and like plates and things and you're meant to get your rage out. I think I would, I think I would benefit.

[Tig Notaro]

And you have not gone.

[Mae Martin]

I've never gone. They're in la. They're in. Yeah, they, it's a big thing and they blast music. You get to pick your music and then you wear goggles and you just. Can you guys tell by looking at me that I have pent up rage or.

[Fortune Feimster]

No, I would not know that. No.

[Tig Notaro]

Pent up rage. Let me see.

[Fortune Feimster]

I don't even think that you're going through a thing of like just, you know, coming out on the other end of some life things. But I would not. Rage would not be the thing. I would think, well, this is the thing.

[Mae Martin]

I can't even access it. It's so deep. But I, I know it's there. Just about the world.

[Tig Notaro]

I would say if I really went in on your, you know, psychology. Well, yeah, I mean you, you're. There's some nerves and anxiety maybe around things in life and, and maybe that could be tied to not sharing how you really feel about things or being direct about something. And then if you're not, then you're probably holding some rage. So that kind of tracks and makes sense.

[Mae Martin]

Two episodes in a row you have.

[Fortune Feimster]

That's pretty interesting.

[Mae Martin]

So apt because it's like my throat chakra is blocked. Like, I do. I don't say what I feel a lot and I have because I, I want everyone to like me, so.

[Fortune Feimster]

And.

[Mae Martin]

But I'm pissed.

[Fortune Feimster]

But I think, But I think some of it is that you, you want to tell people what they want to hear, knowing that you're not going to be able to follow up on that.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

And then it creates drama for you that's unnecessary. You know what I mean? But if you just said from the get go, I don't think I can do that, or I, I don't. I can't. You know what I mean? Like, you're telling people what they want to hear because you want them to. That people pleaser in you. Maybe then you end up letting, letting that person down because they, because you're like, oh, they wanted that from me, but I can't give it to them. And now they're upset with me. And then it leads to like, like fresh, like gear.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah. That's frustration.

[Tig Notaro]

And then how do you respond if somebody, you know, says yes, then lets you down? Like, do you handle that okay?

[Mae Martin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Like in a reverse.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah, I'm. I'm all right with that. I think it's a. I think there's a big, like part of. It's like an ADHD thing. I think like, of just time management and like overwhelm and like freeze. But I don't know. I don't know. It's got to be.

[Tig Notaro]

It's really, it's really interesting to. And I know we've talked about this before, but like, conversations that are so hard and I just always think, like, I'm going to be alive after this conversation. I'm going to be alive after this email, you know, and it really does, like, as hard as that moment is, it's like, it's usually a short, hard.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah. You know, it's not like, like with everyone in my life, I'm avoiding saying, like, what I really feel, but there's probably like some foundational things on like the foundations a little rocky where like. Cause there's stuff that I should. I want to yell in the desert at the moon and the stars and the rocks. And then if I got that out, maybe. Yeah, get it out. I went to the Joshua Tree like a year ago with some friends, and I was like, I want to do a primal scream. And I was with my friend Charlotte, who's British, and she was really worried that, like, it was nighttime, there was no one around, and we were in the middle of the national park. And she was like, before we do the scream, I just have to do something. And then she goes, hello. If anyone can hear us, we're not in any danger. We're just doing a primal scream. And it, like, really. It took the fun out of it a little bit.

[Fortune Feimster]

That's hilarious. It was really from. From feel good.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah, it was very adorable. Yeah. Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

You know what I find really interesting that I'm really in tune with and I don't even know if I'm right or wrong, but I am fascinated by people that have nervous laughs. Not that I'm like, you know, solving a big mystery here, but I feel like that's a lot of rage or.

[Mae Martin]

Oh.

[Fortune Feimster]

Oh, really? Yeah. Interesting.

[Tig Notaro]

Like when people are like, like that kind of thing. Like, it feels like if it keeps going, it'll become snowball is. Yeah. It's like I'm. I'm always interested when people laugh at moments really hard, there's nothing funny happening or you know, barge in with that kind of energy. And I'm always like, you know, just kind of quietly examining that, thinking, what is, what is that really uncomfortable, nervous laughter that is barging into this conversation out of their mouth. Their bo. They're so. They're clearly uncomfortable.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

And it's just, it's really fascinating. And if our listeners relate to that, please write in and let us know. Because I'm. Well, because people might be like, oh, my gosh, I do that and I don't know why I do it or I do it. And the reason I do it is because this or that. I just find it so fascinating.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

I think we can all benefit from opening our mouths a bit more and saying, letting things out. Right. I mean, all that, a lot of this stems from just pent up stuff.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Stephanie emailed me this morning about something. She was not happy with me.

[Fortune Feimster]

Really?

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mae Martin]

And were you receptive?

[Tig Notaro]

I was. I was like, you know, I didn't do it intentionally, but I totally saw what she was saying and apologize. It was really interesting to wake up in a different city from her and have a very big email. Yeah, very big. But it was like an email.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that you hadn't been aware that she was stewing on something.

[Tig Notaro]

I don't know that she was stewing on. It wasn't that she was stewing on something. It was just that she came across something I had said and there was some misrepresentation and whatever. But when I opened the email, I thought, oh, what is I was. It was. I was so like, what is that? I could tell you.

[Fortune Feimster]

That would be jarring. For sure.

[Tig Notaro]

It was jarring, but it was also more fascinating because I don't feel like I'm hiding anything from her. Like, in. You know, like, I don't have massive droves of secrets. And I was more of like, oh, this is. Oh, no. And also. Oh, my gosh, this is so interesting. What is. What did I do? Like, I. Yeah, I was so interested. And then. And then when I read it, I was like, oh, yeah, I did say that. And it wasn't, you know. Totally, totally true. Right, right, right. Without getting into details. But, you know, I did it for a lot. Comedy.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

It basically was her story.

[Mae Martin]

Right.

[Fortune Feimster]

You know? Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

You know, and I kind of blurred it in a way.

[Fortune Feimster]

Right.

[Tig Notaro]

And I was like, oh, yeah, I see that, and I'm sorry, and I won't do that again. And.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Or. Or if I think that story is great, I'll run it by you. You know, But I was just like, oh, it's our world and our. And then here's this story, and I.

[Mae Martin]

Bet all three of us have gotten to trouble for that before. I feel like that's such a. So part of what we do, which doesn't excuse it, but it's like sometimes Jack's way.

[Fortune Feimster]

Are you talking about.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah. Or sometimes I think something's mud. Like. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Well, yeah. And reading that email, I was like, she's totally right, and she is right to feel that way. And I. I sh. And it did cross my mind where I was like, oh, should I. And then I was like, yeah, it's. Nah, it's fine.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

And then it wasn't. And she's right.

[Mae Martin]

You know, in ancient Rome, didn't they used to do a thing that was like, once a month or something? They would have a night that was like bachic chaos of just orgiastic crazy, but not. Not sex. It was just like. Like, you could get all your primal drives out, and people would just get drunk and they'd be screaming. They'd all wear masks and run around, and you just get it out of your system. And I think maybe we need that. Like Freud said, society's coercion and suppression of drives. And I really. I feel like we all are living in this sort of claustrophobia. And if we just had not. Not like the purge, like, we need to have one night where we go out and, you know, hurt people, but just like one night a month, or.

[Fortune Feimster]

We Just go to the red tent.

[Mae Martin]

What's the red tent?

[Fortune Feimster]

Get our feelings out. I talked about it on about a.

[Tig Notaro]

Long time period stuff.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah. Oh, yes.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah, yeah. But it would be an excuse to just hang out and not do anything and just chat about your feelings.

[Tig Notaro]

I feel like people in the red tent are not chill chatting though.

[Fortune Feimster]

Really? In my fantasy, we are eating grapes.

[Tig Notaro]

You know, Emotional.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah. Or a sauna. Let's. Let's modernize it. Let's all go to a sauna.

[Tig Notaro]

Yes, girl, me and you in the sauna. Let's chat.

[Fortune Feimster]

Come on. Have a handsome sauna. Get. Just let sweat it all out. We can talk. We have some time where it's silent and then we can talk about things.

[Mae Martin]

My worst feelings out thing in a sauna. If you ever. When you're in a sauna and then someone comes in and without even being in the sauna for more than a second, they pour a bunch of water on it. It makes it three times hotter and it's like, just wait a sec and let your body adjust because we've all been doing the water. It's hot in here.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah.

[Mae Martin]

Just have to get that off my chest. See, I'm saying how I feel. I'm being honest.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

Get it out, man.

[Mae Martin]

I hate that when people in the sauna make it hot without checking with you, bro.

[Tig Notaro]

You know what would be really fun for you to do is like write an entire hour where you rage, you just let loose and you pace back and forth. And it can be. It's authentic and it's real, but it's also like experimental art, you know?

[Mae Martin]

See, this is the thing, because people often like in stuff that's like written about me. It's like people commend the fact that I'm so. I'm like a palatable queer person. That's not like a. Not actually aggressive or challenging that. You know what I mean? Like, it's accessible.

[Tig Notaro]

Like fortune. Yeah.

[Mae Martin]

Like, well, maybe we.

[Fortune Feimster]

Maybe we both have that, like power palatable.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah. Maybe I should do an hour where I'm just like, it. I'm so boxing. I'm pissed.

[Tig Notaro]

And that's the title it.

[Mae Martin]

I'm so Boxing. I'm Pissed.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. Yeah. On Netflix.

[Mae Martin]

Well, this all goes back to the bear. Let's not pretend it doesn't.

[Tig Notaro]

It's the kept bear and the aliens.

[Mae Martin]

It's the wrestling bear that doesn't know its own strength and is needs to crush the mulleted goons that are tormenting it.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah, it's good to get stuff Out. I'll like think I'm fine and handling everything and then all of a sudden I'll just like start crying. In an elevator.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah. Specifically in a cherry bear.

[Tig Notaro]

Except that you are scared of heights, right?

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah, I just saw Wiener and I gotta leave my hotel room and just now I'm crying. I have just randomly started crying. And can you imagine someone like, getting on be like, oh, okay, I guess.

[Tig Notaro]

She'S not crushing it today.

[Fortune Feimster]

That's right. Or on an airplane. Sometimes I just start bawling on an airplane.

[Mae Martin]

Oh, that's.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, I did that. Recently. I thought about an old painful situation in my life and I had a boohoo on a flight. Just like something I hadn't thought about in so long. And I connected with it again and I was like, God, that was hard on me.

[Fortune Feimster]

Oh man.

[Tig Notaro]

That was really a heavy load.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah, things do bring out that emotion.

[Mae Martin]

You get that perspective looking at things from a distance.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, from a distance.

[Mae Martin]

Don't get me started.

[Fortune Feimster]

Love, Bette Midler.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

The divine Ms. M. Come on.

[Mae Martin]

Don't you think there was a period in movies in the 90s where there were like tons of scenes that took place in elevators with about five people all facing forward? Strangers. And then something awkward would happen? I feel like that used to.

[Fortune Feimster]

Oh yeah.

[Mae Martin]

Happen in movies. In every comedy.

[Tig Notaro]

Okay. Are you guys familiar with my dear old pal Henry Phillips, the comedian?

[Mae Martin]

No, I don't think I am. Actually. I probably.

[Fortune Feimster]

Let me Google.

[Tig Notaro]

Do yourselves a favor. This is a silly, silly man. Okay? He made two movies. One is called Punching the Clown and one is called Punching Henry. And Henry, you have.

[Fortune Feimster]

Uh huh.

[Tig Notaro]

Oh my gosh.

[Fortune Feimster]

I haven't seen these movies though.

[Tig Notaro]

I can't remember. I think it's the one I'm in. Stephanie and I are in one. I think it's Punching Henry. We're in that movie. And he has. He stumbles through the most awkward things in life all the time. In Punching Henry, he's. He's doing a show. This has happened in real life. And then it's also in the movie. A guy shows up to a show. It's like, man, I am your biggest fan. I can't believe. And he like slams his head down and hits a parking meter. And the guy had traveled so far to see Henry. And then he was off to the emergency room.

[Fortune Feimster]

Oh my gosh.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. And then. But anyway, back to elevators. Henry got out of an elevator once and he turned left, but left was just a wall. But he was too embarrassed because the doors were still open. He was too embarrassed to turn back and turn right and go down the hall. So he just held himself up against the wall. But he didn't realize there were mirrors that were showing everyone in the elevator that he was just up against the wall anyway.

[Mae Martin]

Oh, that's great.

[Fortune Feimster]

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[Mae Martin]

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[Fortune Feimster]

Ready for a junk free start to 2025. Head to thrivemarket.com handsome and get 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift. That's T H R I V E market.com handsome thrivemarket.com handsome I wish I.

[Mae Martin]

Knew about this sooner. Satin is so bad for you, but Blissey's silk? An incredible game changer. Why did no one tell me this sooner? I can't stop telling everyone to ditch their cotton pillowcase and try Blissey with Blissey.

[Fortune Feimster]

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[Mae Martin]

Because you're a listener. Blissey is offering 60 nights risk free plus an additional 30% off when you [e-mail] handsome. That's B L I S S-Y.com handsome and use code handsome. To get an additional 30% off your skin and hair. Will. Thank you.

[Tig Notaro]

Henry Phillips. Look at him. He has a show called you and your fucking coffee, and then he has this show called Henry's Kitchen. He's just a silly, dry guy. I love him so much.

[Fortune Feimster]

That's fun. Anyway, well, we should get to our question, right?

[Mae Martin]

Yes, yes, yes, absolutely.

[Fortune Feimster]

Today's questioner is a magician, actor, musician, TV host, and writer, best known as the. The. Well, pretty much the. The vocal half of the iconic magic duo Pen and Teller. Penn Jillette is asking today's question.

[Penn Jillette]

Hello, my handsome friends. This is Penn. Penn Jillette. I work with the comedy magic team in Las Vegas, Penn and Teller, at the conveniently named Penn and Teller Theater. I got a question for you. Scientists have shown the placebos work even when the subject knows it's a placebo, which blows my mind completely. I used to think the whole idea behind placebos was you didn't know they were nothing and that's why they worked. But you can tell people, apparently, I don't know how they did these tests. I don't know what the control group would be. But you can tell people, this is a pill that'll do nothing. This is a placebo. Give them a sugar pill and say, I'm giving it to you for your arthritis or whatever the problem is, and they actually see an improvement, even though they've been told it's a placebo. And this, of course, works in a lighter way, in a silly way, in magic. You know, the magic wand is just a stick. You know, it does nothing, and yet you feel that there's a magical cause to the trickery you're seeing. You always have to have a magical cause for the trickery, no matter how silly. It seems similar to me, although on a. On a lighter level. And I just wondered what you have in your life that you know is bullshit, that you know is not true, and yet you believe in it, and it helps you. So what's your placebo that you know is a placebo?

[Fortune Feimster]

Interesting. I just saw them perform. We did a show together.

[Mae Martin]

Oh, cool.

[Fortune Feimster]

And that is really cool. I don't think about magic tricks very often, and then when I see them, I'm like, dang, that was cool.

[Tig Notaro]

I mean, magic is magic.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah, it's wild.

[Tig Notaro]

I remember going to some show at the. What is the Magic Castle? The Magic Castle. And, like, how do they do it?

[Fortune Feimster]

Thank you for saying that in Italian.

[Tig Notaro]

Well, delicately. Meatball. But I. I don't. Some magician was saying what was in this Woman's purse.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah. That's wild.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. I was like.

[Mae Martin]

It was just like. Was some of it unexpected stuff? It wasn't just like, your wallet, your.

[Tig Notaro]

I was like, I don't. I don't get it. I'm angry at everybody now. I don't know what's happening. Yeah. It's fascinating.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah. And, like, Pen's very cerebral, as you can see, so that a lot of his stuff is, like, talking out these big things. And you're like, how does he keep up with all that? Yeah.

[Mae Martin]

Well, any of the things that I'm thinking of and answer this question. I'm like, I don't really 100% know that they don't work. Or if there are placebos, they're working anyway. So, like crystals or like. Well, spells. I did quite a few spells. I.

[Fortune Feimster]

Now, you know, you yourself do the spells or someone does them for you.

[Mae Martin]

Well, things like on a full moon or whatever. I'll write down stuff and bury it. Weird, you know, weird shit that I. That I read about just for fun.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Like a little squirrel in the yard.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Like a little squirrel there, Barry.

[Mae Martin]

And dirt under my nails. Yeah. Oh, my God. If someone dug up my yard and found all my secrets.

[Fortune Feimster]

All your secrets are just out in your yard. Yeah. I don't know. Because that's the thing about a placebo effect. It's that it's mentally making you feel better.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

And if you mentally feel better, then it can have effects on you physically.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

So it does, in turn work.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah. Do you have any, like, superstitions that you kind of know it's bogus, but.

[Fortune Feimster]

Just in case you're doing it, I'm not very superstitious.

[Mae Martin]

Like, would you walk under a ladder?

[Fortune Feimster]

I didn't even know that was a thing. What is that?

[Mae Martin]

What do you mean?

[Tig Notaro]

You're not supposed to walk under a ladder against one. So you know, I know of this.

[Fortune Feimster]

Or you don't know?

[Tig Notaro]

I do. I do.

[Fortune Feimster]

What is it?

[Mae Martin]

If you walk under a ladder, it's bad luck. I don't know why.

[Fortune Feimster]

On the inner part of it, you mean?

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

Oh, interesting.

[Mae Martin]

Like, between it and the wall, you.

[Fortune Feimster]

Know, you're all just coming across ladders left and right.

[Mae Martin]

No. Well, that's why it's kind of a stressful when you do, because you're like, oh, better not walk underneath.

[Fortune Feimster]

Better not do that. I have no idea if I've ever even done that.

[Mae Martin]

Like, I'm sure it's. But I still bet you haven't do.

[Tig Notaro]

It because you didn't know it was bad news. So you're like, all Mr. Magoo, right? Underneath the ladder.

[Fortune Feimster]

Isn't it bad luck to, like, throw away a penny or something?

[Tig Notaro]

I didn't know.

[Mae Martin]

No, it's good luck to throw a penny in a fountain, but I thought.

[Fortune Feimster]

If you threw it away, it's bad luck.

[Mae Martin]

Oh, really?

[Tig Notaro]

Well, you're just throwing money away. That can't be great luck.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Like, you got that kind of cash fortune that you can just throw a penny in the trash. Do you put it in the trash or in recycling?

[Fortune Feimster]

I don't think I'm throwing them away. I think I knew that it was bad luck, so I didn't.

[Mae Martin]

Do you have a piggy bank?

[Fortune Feimster]

No. Jax puts coins in a thing, I think, or she used to.

[Tig Notaro]

Coins in a thing.

[Fortune Feimster]

Coins in a thing. That would be a piggy bank.

[Mae Martin]

Everybody used to keep their change. And then you could get. Your parents would get from the bank the rolls. Right. And you'd put all the pennies in the roll or all your nickels in the rolls and count it up. You exchange it for bills.

[Fortune Feimster]

Believe black cats are bad luck?

[Tig Notaro]

No.

[Mae Martin]

No, I don't actually. Like, I went to see my house that I bought, and a gray cat showed up. And then. So I Googled the significance of gray cats, and it was like independence. Oh, yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Are you feeling independent?

[Mae Martin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

Still on track with that?

[Mae Martin]

Yeah, man. Yeah, I got it.

[Fortune Feimster]

You got it? It's done.

[Mae Martin]

It's. Yeah. I've got repairs to do, like, foundational repairs and things like that. But, yeah, that is.

[Fortune Feimster]

We didn't follow up to find out if you got the structural information, and everything was like, that's good. Other than a few repairs.

[Mae Martin]

Well, here's the thing. It's good. Like, it's stable and secure, but they are next year going to be repairing the cliff edge that the house is perched on, and it's going to be unbelievably loud for one year, but it's worth it.

[Fortune Feimster]

So you're in?

[Mae Martin]

I'm in. I'm in. And I'm scared.

[Fortune Feimster]

Why?

[Tig Notaro]

Of sliding down the hill.

[Fortune Feimster]

I would be scared of that.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah, I'm scared of sliding down the hill. Scared of, you know, robbers and spiders and. Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Robbers and spiders.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

Oh, my.

[Tig Notaro]

Well, you know what I can do for you that I did to Max and Finn, because they were really scared for a while. About bad guys.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

So I took them into our neighborhood and showed them the crime stopper sign, whatever that is. And I was like, you see this sign? We don't allow bad guys in our neighborhood. So there is nothing to be afraid of. And they.

[Mae Martin]

Were they into it?

[Tig Notaro]

Yes. They believe. In fact, in the backseat, I heard Finn telling Max when he was scared about something, he was like, it's fine, Max. He was like, bad guys aren't allowed in our neighborhood. Oh, yeah. There are no bad guys in our neighborhood.

[Mae Martin]

Cute.

[Fortune Feimster]

I can't believe that worked. Nice.

[Tig Notaro]

Oh, my gosh, it worked. Our alarm went off in the middle of the night when Stephanie was by herself.

[Fortune Feimster]

Oh, that's scary.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. And she thought they slept through it. And in the morning, she was like, you guys. The alarm went off on the house, and they're like, oh, we know. We heard it. And when she told me that, I was like, that's how safe they feel. They just thought it was like. And it was like, you know, a mistake.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

But the alarm got tripped. But they didn't have a care in the world. They weren't even slightly scared because they know there's no bad guys in their neighborhood.

[Mae Martin]

That's great.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

We had our alarm go off one morning. It was, like, crazy windy, and I didn't realize I hadn't, like, latched the back door properly. And it. The wind was so hard that it blew it open.

[Mae Martin]

Oh, scary.

[Fortune Feimster]

Alarm went off. So we, like, jolted out of bed, and. And Jax just starts charging down. I'm like, no, of course. You gotta look in the camera.

[Mae Martin]

Downstairs.

[Fortune Feimster]

Someone's downstairs. She's just bolting down there to knock them out. I'm just like, oh, my God. No. I'm like, hide in the room, lock.

[Tig Notaro]

The door, grab Biggie, start crying.

[Fortune Feimster]

I are in the bedroom, let the door lock. She's just taking care of business. She has no fear. I swear to God. It's crazy.

[Tig Notaro]

That is amazing. Of course. Of course.

[Fortune Feimster]

So she's my protector. I love her.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah. That's great.

[Fortune Feimster]

Jax is my placebo.

[Mae Martin]

If someone. If you heard a scary sound in the night, Tig, would you or Stephanie go check it out?

[Fortune Feimster]

Well, Dig's in her nightgown.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, I'm in my nightgown, flowing in the wind. But no, it's so funny when we have visitors staying with us and we don't even have our alarm set. It's just the ding of the door opening and closing. Stephanie will jump out of bed, like, oh, God. She'll, like, kind of make a loop around the room and then get back in bed. And then Stephanie always imitates me. This is a cartoon version of me.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Of, like, just in my underwear, going downstairs, going, I love my family.

[Mae Martin]

That's hilarious.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. I think I. I think we both would hesitantly go down, but also holding hands. But I asked her, I was like, did you call the police or 911? She was like, well, no, that's what the alarm does. And I was like, I know, but it wouldn't be bad to, like, give a little extra ring a ding and be on the phone with somebody when an emergency is happening.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

So I don't know.

[Mae Martin]

I don't know how we got onto this. Placebos.

[Fortune Feimster]

I don't know either. Yeah. Some people think that cold plunging is a placebo.

[Mae Martin]

No. That's all proven, really?

[Fortune Feimster]

Because every time I hear things, so many people have different things about, like, no, it has tons of health benefits. And other people are like, it does nothing. It wakes you up.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. But you know what? The level that it wakes you up is so stimulating in your brain. It's crazy. Yeah, it is so crazy.

[Mae Martin]

And your dopamine climbs, like, for, like, two and a half hours. Your dopamine keeps climbing. It doesn't crash or bottom out.

[Fortune Feimster]

It's.

[Mae Martin]

I think it's.

[Fortune Feimster]

And who are these people saying it has no benefits?

[Tig Notaro]

People that are wrong.

[Mae Martin]

Sauna salesman.

[Tig Notaro]

Yes. Thank you, May. I don't feel like I have a placebo thing in my life. I mean, and this is like. Like a stretch to try and connect it, but, you know, when I was sick in 2012, I was praying, and I had never done that before, and I felt like. I felt like it was going to help me.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

And it did. I'm here. I lived through it. But, yeah.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

I don't know.

[Mae Martin]

I've done some praying.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah, I do that. Yeah, Man.

[Tig Notaro]

I don't ever pray, but I prayed then and then. I never returned to it again once. God was like, all right, I'll let you live.

[Fortune Feimster]

I don't, like, get on my knees like you do, like you see, you know, in a cartoon. Yeah. If there's, like some. I'm going through some hard times. I just. Like, in my car, I'm just like, yeah, I'll talk out loud.

[Tig Notaro]

Let's hear a little.

[Fortune Feimster]

I kind of pray to, like, the God or the. Or a higher power, kind of a mix of things. Sometimes my grandmother. Sometimes I'll talk to my grandma and be like, nana, help me out.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah, look after me.

[Tig Notaro]

And she does.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah. And who knows? Like, is. If that's a placebo, I. If there's something to it, I don't. I don't know, but it makes me feel better.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. That's all you need.

[Mae Martin]

Totally.

[Tig Notaro]

Who cares where it comes from?

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah. I'm trying to think if there's anything. Yeah. I don't have like any ritual.

[Mae Martin]

Maybe vitamins. Like, you know, they're like vitamins. You just pee them out. You know, I take a bunch of vitamins. Yeah. That I'm sure do nothing except make.

[Tig Notaro]

You go to the bathroom.

[Mae Martin]

That's true.

[Fortune Feimster]

I eat pad Thai. That makes me feel better.

[Mae Martin]

That's not a placebo. That's truly comforting.

[Fortune Feimster]

That's truly my comfort food.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. Let's see what. What Penn has to say.

[Penn Jillette]

I am a strict, unpleasantly strict, self righteous vegan. And I know that big parts of my health improving from veganism are not from veganism. They're from being conscious of my diet or they are completely mental. But when I eat nothing but vegetables, which has been the past nine years, I feel better. And I know that about 25% of that is 100% bullshit. But that placebo helps me get through being a strict vegan. Helps me do all the things in my life that make me a little healthier than I used to be. So that's my answer. It's not as satisfying as yours, I'm sure. Even though I haven't heard him yet. Okay. Thank you, handsome people. Love you. Peace.

[Fortune Feimster]

Did you know that Penn was a vegan? I had no idea.

[Tig Notaro]

I had no idea neither now. I cannot wait to talk to him about it. Yeah, yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

Because he's saying that it's not proven that that is a fully health beneficial thing. Is that what he means?

[Mae Martin]

I think like he's saying that not all of the health benefits can be ascribed to the veganism.

[Fortune Feimster]

Vegetables.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah, like that part of it must be that he's thinking now of himself as a healthy person. So it's like, yeah, yeah, that's cool.

[Fortune Feimster]

I will say when I drink my green juice that I'm like, I'm.

[Tig Notaro]

No one can touch you.

[Fortune Feimster]

I'm so healthy right now.

[Tig Notaro]

I have green liquid in my body.

[Fortune Feimster]

I'm the healthiest I've ever been from this one morning I drank green juice. Well, for you, Tig, it did help you a lot because you were going through all that. And I mean, don't you've said that you attribute that to helping save your life, Right?

[Tig Notaro]

I do. And I'm sure that, well, not just saved my life, but also helped me deal with pain. And I'm sure it's a mix of all of those things, of eating nutrient dense Vegetables and fruit, nuts, seeds, all of that kind of stuff. Grains. And then having. Before, I just didn't really think about my health. I was just a person floating through the world and just eating whatever I want, doing whatever I want. And now I'm so. I do not want to be back in that place again. And so whatever it is that's happening. And, look, obviously I could keel over and die tomorrow, but right now the pain management is just superb. I feel so much better, and I can't say enough about it. But I also. People get very weird around me where they're like, oh, I can't eat this in front of you, or I can't do this. And it's like, this is me. Like, yeah, this. I'm not. I'm not talking about you. I'm not talking about what you're eating, wearing, doing. Yeah, yeah, I'm. I'm good.

[Fortune Feimster]

You know, you're on your journey.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mae Martin]

I feel like I know it's in my future.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mae Martin]

Vegetarianism and veganism. But I'm just sort of waiting to get there.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mae Martin]

I'm hoping I'll just arrive there and unconnected to anyone of my behavior, I'll just suddenly be like, oh, I'm here now. I'm a vegan.

[Tig Notaro]

Well. And as I tell everyone that you have to have something that is your North Star, that gets you there, whether it's animal cruelty or health or environmental issues, you have to be really, really sold on what your North Star is. Otherwise, nothing will work. And there's no way I would have maintained any sort of healthy lifestyle if I hadn't fallen so far off of that ledge. And now it's the easiest thing for me to. Not the easiest, but, I mean, it's just. It's what I do, you know?

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

But it doesn't mean that I have judgment about how anybody else is doing anything.

[Fortune Feimster]

Right. Thank goodness. There's some real doozies happening over here with me.

[Tig Notaro]

Orange chicken.

[Mae Martin]

I do love it, though.

[Fortune Feimster]

My baby. My baby bear, Biggie Boy. He's my placebo if I'm sad or. Yeah, that's pure arms. And I feel so much better.

[Tig Notaro]

Biggie is scientific.

[Fortune Feimster]

Oh, he's the best. Just. I just stare at him.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

And all that stress goes away.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. And he just stares at you with his dead eyes.

[Mae Martin]

Oh.

[Fortune Feimster]

He'S not in here. He was in here, but he was like, yeah, get me out of here. I'm tired of all this talking.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah.

[Fortune Feimster]

I gotta go play.

[Tig Notaro]

Well, that was a fun episode.

[Fortune Feimster]

I really Enjoyed that, you guys. Me too.

[Mae Martin]

You guys.

[Tig Notaro]

Hey, me too.

[Mae Martin]

Hey, three.

[Fortune Feimster]

Three of us. All in agreement.

[Tig Notaro]

There's no two against one, no three for three.

[Fortune Feimster]

Three musketeers.

[Mae Martin]

Except Thomas. Thomas is like, I hated that one.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, I hate all of these three against one.

[Fortune Feimster]

He was, he was in a cold plunge.

[Mae Martin]

Make sure you go on YouTube and check out Tig's new look.

[Tig Notaro]

That's a brand new look.

[Fortune Feimster]

So sexy.

[Tig Notaro]

Thank you, Fortune. And also go to handsomepod.com for all of our lovely merchandise. Man, I see it everywhere out in the wild and it is a real treat.

[Fortune Feimster]

Really a cool treat. Yeah, it was so cool seeing those end of the year Spotify wrap up too. Like people would were tagging us and oh yeah, they're like top five and stuff. That was really neat seeing people just show us that handsome love. Thank you for that.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah, that was amazing.

[Tig Notaro]

Please know we're sending the love right back to you. And please send the love off to friends and family. Your favorite episodes. Let's keep building the community. Follow us on social media, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts rate, review us all of that stuff. I know we always say it, but that is really what will keep this going.

[Fortune Feimster]

Yeah, we're in Nashville and Austin in April, so don't forget to get your tickets to those shows as well on our website.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah, a lot of fun stuff planned.

[Fortune Feimster]

If you haven't seen my special Crushing it, it's on Netflix. Please go watch it. And I'm on tour working out new stuff in Pasadena, Ontario and Oxnard, California coming up in the next month, as well as the Irvine Improv. And then I have a giant new tour starting April 4th, so get your tickets for that.

[Mae Martin]

I'm at Largo like once a month and around the town. And then I'm about to go on a mini tour for my music coming up in in a couple months, so keep an eye out for that.

[Tig Notaro]

That's so fun. Well, until next time, shall we Keep Handsome?

[Mae Martin]

Handsome is hosted by me, Mae Martin, Tig Notaro, and Fortune Feimster. The show is produced, recorded and edited by Thomas Willette. Email [e-mail] and please follow us on social media. Ndsompod.

[Tig Notaro]

What a podcast.

[Fortune Feimster]

What a podcast.

[Mae Martin]

What a podcast. That was a headgum podcast. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate first.

[Fortune Feimster]

Like you know how to check and make sure you've got extra nachos before your friends come over to watch the big game.

[Mae Martin]

Yeah, check in first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds, you're in good hands with Allstate. This content is intended for audiences in the US Only. Savings vary. Terms apply. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates Northbrook, Illinois.

[Caleb Herron]

Hi, I'm Caleb Herron, host of the so True podcast, now on Headgum. Every week me and my guests get into it and we get down to what's really going on. I ask them what's so true to them, how they got to where they are in life, a bunch of other questions, and we also may or may not test their general trivia knowledge. Whether it's one of my sworn enemies like Brittany Broski or Drew A Fualo, or my actual biological mother Kelly, my guests and I are just after the truth, and if we find it, great. And if not, no worries. So subscribe to so True on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Pocket Cast, or wherever you get your podcasts, and watch video episodes on the so True with Caleb Herron YouTube channel. New episodes drop every Thursday. Love ya.