Happier with Gretchen Rubin — Bonus: Don’t Call it a Midlife Crisis—Chip Conley on the “Dan Buettner” Podcast
Date: December 14, 2025
Podcast: Happier with Gretchen Rubin (The Onward Project)
Host: Gretchen Rubin (with Elizabeth Craft)
Guests: Dan Buettner and Chip Conley
Overview
This special episode features an extended, in-depth conversation between Dan Buettner (National Geographic Fellow, creator of the Blue Zones) and Chip Conley (hospitality entrepreneur, founder of the Modern Elder Academy), focusing on redefining midlife and the true meaning of purpose. Dan draws on his experiences studying longevity "blue zones" around the world, while Chip introduces fresh, empowering perspectives on life transitions, aging, wisdom, and how to approach midlife not as a dreaded crisis, but as a transformative "chrysalis" (not a crisis).
The episode is filled with practical insights for listeners at every stage of life, but especially for those navigating career transitions, relationships, aging, or searching for renewed meaning. Chip offers actionable frameworks and shares personal vulnerability, while Dan weaves in big-picture research and anecdotes.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Rethinking Purpose and the "Midlife Crisis"
- Cultural Misconceptions: Chip and Dan agree that "midlife crisis" is an outdated, limiting narrative. Instead, they advocate viewing midlife as a time for transformation and renewed opportunity—a "chrysalis."
- Chip: "Midlife is a transformative time and the U curve of happiness research is very clear on this... after 50, we get happier with each decade." (15:00)
- Dan: "What jumped into my mind was midlife opportunity." (16:15)
- Purpose as a Verb, Not Possession: Many people see purpose as something to possess or achieve, leading to "performance anxiety" around not “having” a big enough purpose.
- Chip: "You can’t have the noun if you don’t do the verb... learning how to be purposeful is the step... that take you to purpose." (07:30)
2. Finding Purpose: Practical Frameworks
- Four Pathways to Purpose: At Modern Elder Academy, purpose can spring from:
- Something that excites you
- Something that agitates you
- Something that makes you curious
- “Something that is neglected from earlier in your life” (08:00)
- Big P vs. Small p Purpose: (Richard Leider’s model)
- Big P: Purpose for the resume, achievements
- Small p: Purpose for the eulogy, human connections and meaning (11:00)
3. The Real Health and Longevity Secret: Purpose
- Blue Zones Insight: Having a sense of purpose (“ikigai” in Okinawa) is linked to an 8-year longer life expectancy.
- Dan: “There’s no pill, there’s no supplement, there’s no stem cell snake oil that’s going to give you eight years of life expectancy. But we know it works...” (05:40)
- Shift in Society: Traditional sources of purpose (e.g., religion) are less prevalent today, making conscious purpose-seeking more important.
4. Navigating Life Transitions: The TQ (Transitional Intelligence) Method
Chip outlines a three-phase process for managing major life changes:
- Ending: Ritualize and mark what’s over to create closure.
- Messy Middle (Chrysalis): Allow time in liminality to gain social support, reflect, and look for life lessons.
- Quote: “Our painful life lessons are the raw material for our future wisdom.” (25:43)
- Beginning: Start anew with a growth mindset and sense of humor. (28:00)
- Dan’s Summary: "First thing you want to do is to take stock of your friends ... second, ritualize the change ... third, begin anew with growth mindset." (28:45–29:19)
5. Anticipated Regret as a Guide
- Action Prompt: Ask "what will I regret in ten years if I don't do this now?" to catalyze action on things that matter.
- Chip: “Anticipated regret is a form of wisdom.” (16:32, 33:59)
- Dan: "Anybody listening should write that question down." (47:27)
6. The Experience of the Modern Elder Academy (MEA)
- Community & Transformation: MEA brings people together in midlife and beyond to step through transitions, pursue purpose, and replace outdated maps of success with meaning.
- Personal Story: Dan’s own “messy middle”—being fired at 40 and discovering new purpose—illustrates the process.
- Dan: "I would have never gotten there if I didn't have the messy middle..." (31:00)
7. The Role of Suffering & Wisdom
- Wisdom Through Difficulty: Suffering, adversity, and transition are not to be avoided; they are the raw material for wisdom.
- Chip: “AI will never be wise because it doesn’t know how to suffer... wisdom comes from suffering.” (32:49)
- Developing Wisdom: Keep a “wisdom book” or journal—regularly reflect on and learn from life lessons.
- Chip: "I've been doing it now for 36 years... the faster we learn wisdom, the earlier we learn wisdom, the longer we have to use it." (35:26–36:15)
8. Vulnerability and Life Lessons
- Cancer Diagnosis: Chip shares candidly about his journey through prostate cancer and the existential clarity and humility it brought.
- “I don’t have to be the hero in my company anymore... I really needed to say, I don't have to do this by myself.” (40:57–44:37)
- Death as a Teacher: "Death has been something that's been an organizing principle for life... What will I regret 10 years from now?" (44:43–47:27)
- Crying and Masculinity: Chip reflects on not crying for years due to masculine “scripts” and how vulnerability and community are now central to his work.
- "I didn't cry again for about 12 years... my dad was my baseball coach... there was a part of me that felt like I needed to do what I could to hide this." (66:24–68:42)
9. Longevity "Hacks" vs. Meaningful Lifestyle Changes
- Myth-busting: Dan challenges the supplement, “biohacking,” and “longevity bro” industry as largely snake oil; real drivers of longevity are social connection, purpose, and lifestyle.
- "There is no pill, no supplement, no longevity hack that has been shown to add years of life expectancy to humans." (58:28)
- "Social connection is the most important variable for living a longer, healthier, happier life." (49:42)
10. Gender, Aging, and the Wellness Industry
- Differences by Gender: Women are drawn to wellness, men to longevity and length of life; wellness is about "depth," longevity about "length."
- Chip: "Men get focused on longevity. Women get focused on wellness." (53:20)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Purpose:
- Dan Buettner (05:40): “People who have a sense of purpose, who know why they wake up in the morning and put it to work, live about eight years longer than people who are rudderless in life.”
- Chip Conley (07:30): “We have almost performance anxiety when it comes to purpose... the real question is not do you have a purpose, but at what things in my life do I feel purposeful?”
-
On Midlife:
- Chip (14:53): “The way we think of midlife is as if it's a crisis. And if you can survive the crisis, on the other side of that, you have disease, you die, you have disease, decrepitude and death. And so that is such an ancient 50 year old, 60 year old point of view that really needs to be rethought... midlife is a chrysalis.”
- Elizabeth Craft (16:15): “Midlife opportunity.”
-
On Transition:
- Chip (24:11): “If you look at the history of time, whether it's Joseph Campbell or... William Bridges... there’s three stages to any transition. The ending of something, the messy middle, and the beginning of something ... Our painful life lessons are the raw material for our future wisdom.”
- Chip (25:43): “The chrysalis in essence between caterpillar and butterfly is chrysalis.”
-
On Regret & Wisdom:
- Chip (16:32): “Anticipated regret is a form of wisdom.”
- Dan (47:27): “What am I likely to regret in 10 years if I don't do it now?”
-
On Supplements & Longevity Hacks:
- Dan (58:28): “There is no pill, no supplement, no longevity hack that has been shown to add years of life expectancy to humans.”
- Chip (61:35): "There's a point at which purpose becomes a possession. The possession of you're possessed by what you're doing. I worry that this is a... someone who has maybe lost track of the balance and what's really important in life."
-
On Suffering and Wisdom:
- Chip (32:49): "AI will never be wise because it doesn’t know how to suffer... there’s a certain amount of wisdom that comes from suffering."
-
On Vulnerability:
- Dan (71:25): "You're empathetic. You come off as thinking to yourself, I'm no better than you. I am going on this journey with you."
- Chip (73:49): "If you were to distill down who I am... my gift is to be a social alchemist... creating a potent cocktail of people coming together in a vulnerable way to discover a little bit more about who they are."
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Midlife and Purpose Myths: 02:08–09:20
- Four Pathways to Purpose: 07:19–10:57
- The U Curve of Happiness, Midlife as Chrysalis: 13:46–15:55
- Transitioning and TQ Method: 24:11–29:19
- Messy Middle Stories, Wisdom Journaling: 30:36–37:17
- Cancer, Death, and Meaning: 40:40–49:40
- Longevity Hacks and Supplements Debunked: 57:36–66:17
- Vulnerability, Crying, and Breaking Masculine Scripts: 66:24–73:49
Final Takeaways
- Midlife is a period full of possibility, not crisis. With the right mindset, it can be the foundation for the happiest, most meaningful decades of your life.
- Purpose is best approached as a process—something found in action, curiosity, growth, and service—rather than a single grand project.
- Meaningful connection and community, not pills or hacks, are at the heart of health, happiness, and longevity.
- Don’t underestimate the messy middle—painful transitions often generate the wisdom and freedom that define the next stage.
- Ritual, self-reflection, supportive friends, and a growth mindset accelerate positive transition.
- The best question: 'What will I regret in 10 years if I don’t do this now?'
Resources & Where to Find More
- Chip Conley: chipconley.com, meawisdom.com, LinkedIn, Instagram, "Midlife Chrysalis" podcast.
- Dan Buettner: bluezones.com
- Modern Elder Academy: Comprehensive courses/books/retreats on midlife transitions and purpose.
For Listeners Seeking More
This episode is essential for anyone feeling “stuck,” going through a transition, or seeking a roadmap for purposeful aging and growth. Chip’s frameworks and Dan’s research join for a compassionate, actionable view of midlife — not as a crisis, but as an open horizon.