← Happier with Gretchen Rubin
Happier with Gretchen Rubin
Ep. 519: College Freshman Advice, Night Snacking & a Hack for Being a Good Guest
00:39:18
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- [00:00]
Gretchen Rubin
You know how sometimes a meal leaves you energized and other times sluggish, foggy, or even hungrier? That may be your glucose talking. Foods that are sugar and carb heavy and you know, my experience here cause your body's glucose levels to spike, often followed by a crash. This matters because it turns out 88% of us have suboptimal metabolic health. So glucose could be the next big thing to track when it comes to health. That's why we're excited about Lingo, a new biowearable from Abbott that tracks your glucose in real time.
- [00:34]
Elizabeth Craft
I've been wearing Lingo for weeks now, and I've learned that for my body, if I move around after I eat a meal, my spike is much more gradual, much lower. And so I've learned that I just need to get up and move around after I eat. What works for me might work very differently for you, but that's what works for my body. To see how your body responds to food and learn what you can do to improve your metabolism. Trilingo. It starts at $49 for a two week plan. No prescription needed. For a limited time. Save 10% on your first order with happier@helolingo.com the Lingo Glucose system is for.
- [01:09]
Gretchen Rubin
Users 18 years and older, not on insulin. It is not intended for diagnosis of diseases, including diabetes. For more information, please visit helingo.com US Lemonade.
- [01:38]
Elizabeth Craft
Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast where we talk about ideas and strategies for making our lives happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative. This week we'll talk about some advice you might take from a college freshman. Spoiler alert. That freshman is my daughter and a hack for late night snacking. I'm Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits, human nature, secrets of adulthood. I'm in New York City in my little home office, and joining me today from Los Angeles is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. And Elizabeth, everybody is very relieved to hear that you are back at home.
- [02:12]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes, that's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer living in la. And yes, Gretch, we're back at home. We were evacuated from our house in Encino for a week, but we're very lucky nothing happened to our neighborhood. It was so nice how many people reached out to see how I was doing. It has been a very tough time in Los Angeles. It's going to be, you know, for a long time. But thank goodness for all the firefighters and first responders and everybody who has been working on these fires. Hopefully we're on the other side of it.
- [02:49]
Elizabeth Craft
Yeah, let's hope. In other news, you know, we talk a lot about the 25 for 25 list, and I was very intrigued by Elizabeth. Your writing partner is Sarah Fain. She's the co host of the Happier in Hollywood podcast with you. And Sarah is like such a note taker and course taker and journal keeper. She's very much that way. And she's also an overbuyer. So I was so interested in episode 401 where she talked about. She has this very unusual twist on how she's doing her 25 and 25 explain for people who did listen to that episode of Happier in Hollywood.
- [03:24]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes. So Sarah's 25 things in 25 is the categories of things she's not buying.
- [03:32]
Elizabeth Craft
Because she is an overbuyer.
- [03:34]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes.
- [03:35]
Elizabeth Craft
Self declared. Yes.
- [03:36]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes. And so she chose 25 things she's not gonna buy. We shared it on the podcast. Some of the items are mugs, a wool, because she knits and spins wool. Furniture, bags and purses, puzzles. She said no new electronics, although she can replace one if she needs to.
- [03:57]
Elizabeth Craft
Yes.
- [03:57]
Gretchen Rubin
Towels, games, skincare. Again, she said she can replace it, but she can't get something that she's just experimenting with and on and on.
- [04:08]
Elizabeth Craft
I mean, yes, but it was funny because she was sort of like, we have so many games that we don't play. We can just play the games we have.
- [04:15]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes.
- [04:15]
Elizabeth Craft
You know, or like towels. We'll just use these towels.
- [04:18]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes.
- [04:18]
Elizabeth Craft
And so. But I thought that was such an interesting tw. And I have to say, when she started launching in, I'm like, how many categories is she gonna come up with? But each one you're like, yeah, I get it. Mugs. It's fun to buy a new mug, but you don't need that mug. Probably.
- [04:31]
Gretchen Rubin
Yeah. And it was funny cause she was hesitating about doing it on the podcast. I kept saying, let's do your list. And she said, well, but then I'm really gonna have to go through with it.
- [04:40]
Elizabeth Craft
Obliger.
- [04:41]
Gretchen Rubin
Yeah. So of course I'm there. I can keep tabs on her. So it's really interesting. Now she will buy like secondhand furniture from Facebook Marketplace and things like that. So it's also got an environmental aspect to it. She's both interested in just not spending the money, but also in helping the environment. So it's really interesting. We'll be, you know, I'm sure touching back on it over the year.
- [05:08]
Elizabeth Craft
Yeah.
- [05:09]
Gretchen Rubin
By the way, Gretch, I have to remind everyone that Sarah and I now have A substack. Yes. Which has really been fun. And we have a chat in our sub stack. Um, we're getting, you know, a lot of people coming over and building our community. So if you want to subscribe, probably the easiest way is go to happierinhollywood.com and if you scroll down, there's a place to put in your email address and you'll start getting our free weekly newsletter.
- [05:38]
Elizabeth Craft
I like it. You have, like, the funny little tiny video clips, like the one of the two corgis running gleefully down the hotel room when you were evacuated. Like, it was so cute. It was like a little pick me up. Now, here is a note from a listener who had some really good reframing about my bad watercolor teacher. I talked about in episode 5 17, about how I had really allowed having a bad watercolor teacher to kind of occupy too much real estate in my brain and kind of sour me on watercolor. And I was trying to. Now that I'm doing watercolor every, every day of the year in 2025, I really wanted to just let that go. And Annie had a good suggestion.
- [06:15]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes, she says, I just finished listening to episode 517 of the podcast and your discussion of your demerit. I struggle with this a lot. What sometimes helps me is to remind myself that everyone comes into our lives for a reason, even when the experience was negative. Maybe the negative experience with the teacher was a way of spurring you on to complete the habit of doing it every day because you wanted to prove to yourself and to her probably, that you could do it, and you put it on your list again for this year to learn it. If everything had been perfect last year, you might have gotten bored with it and not persisted. And because you have access to good teachers this year, your enjoyment of the painting process is probably higher than it might have been last year because you're mastering skills that you struggled with last year. What an excellent reframing, Gretch. And very insightful.
- [07:10]
Elizabeth Craft
Very insightful. And I found this really encouraging. And it's comforting because it's true. As she was describing this, I'm like, I think that's probably right. It's not like, oh, I took this class and now I'm done. Now I have to rekind myself in this new way. So I found that really encouraging. And it really did help me put aside my resentment of that teacher for, like, oh, you wasted my time and my energy and my enthusiasm and being like, you know what? It all worked out. It all worked out. So thank you, Annie, for That refrain, we love a good reframing. It's always astonishing how effective just a reframing can be. One last note. For listeners listening in January 2025, I am offering up to 50% off some my very favorite items from thehappinessproject.com, the memento keepsake journal, which I love. The choose the Bigger Life mug, the Know Yourself Better Journal set, Elizabeth's favorite Onward and Upward T shirt. If you want to check it out, go to happiercast.com sale before February 1st to get the discount. And if you're listening later, don't worry, you can still check it all out@happiercast.com shop.
- [08:16]
Gretchen Rubin
Exciting.
- [08:17]
Elizabeth Craft
So listen, this week, our try this at home suggestion is to take some advice from a college freshman. And you might think to yourself, why would I take advice from a college freshman? I'm not going to college. What does a college freshman have to say? But here's the thing. What I have found is that good advice for a particular category, even a very particular narrow category of people, almost always turns out to be good advice for me. It turns out that good advice, you might have to tinker with it and adapt it to your own circumstances. But I offer often find that reading good advice for people living in a mobile home or whatever. I'm like, that's really good advice for me, too.
- [08:56]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes. Well, that's why we say treat yourself like a toddler because have a nap. Don't get too hungry. That's good advice for everybody, right?
- [09:05]
Elizabeth Craft
Exactly. So we thought we would talk to Eleanor. She is a college freshman. She is home on her very long winter holiday, about to head back to school in a few days. So we thought, let's hear what her advice might be for college freshmen or anybody else who can use that advice. Hello, Eleanor.
- [09:22]
Gretchen Rubin
Hi, Eleanor.
- [09:23]
Eleanor
Hello.
- [09:24]
Elizabeth Craft
You're coming to us from the living room.
- [09:26]
Eleanor
Yes, I am.
- [09:27]
Elizabeth Craft
Yes. There's not room in my little home office for the two of us.
- [09:30]
Eleanor
Nope.
- [09:30]
Gretchen Rubin
Well, Eleanor, we are so excited to get advice from you because you are in the middle of your freshman year. So now you've been at school, you know what's working, what's not working.
- [09:42]
Eleanor
Yeah.
- [09:42]
Gretchen Rubin
Before we get to the actual school part, I want to ask about your gap year. So you took a gap year between high school and college. I'm just curious, do you recommend it for other people?
- [09:55]
Eleanor
I definitely do. I think it was definitely the right move for me. I think it's important to have it all planned out, know what you're gonna be doing. So you're not just sitting at home, but I loved it. I thought it was helpful for me to just felt like I knew myself a little more outside of a school setting and to know, like, what kind of people I want around me, what kind of things I want to do, what kind of things I'm interested in. And I feel like it really did help me clarify some things and also just get a sense of, like, there's a world outside of the school world. And for my friends who took gap years, I think they had similar experiences. And now I just feel like I'm a bit calmer. I'm a bit more able to kind of pull myself out of the, like, all encompassing, super immersive school environment, which can be a lot sometimes.
- [10:48]
Elizabeth Craft
Yeah. Well, one question everybody wonders when it's their time is what do you pack? So what is it that you packed that you were glad that you packed?
- [10:58]
Eleanor
I will say there are a few, like, concrete items that I think are pretty much universally useful. I would say command hooks, which you mom said that I got too many on our initial target trip, but I knew I would need more.
- [11:11]
Elizabeth Craft
This is simply improbable that one person could use this many command hooks. But you rose to the challenge.
- [11:18]
Gretchen Rubin
I've heard you two mention these before, but I don't know what they are. So explain what a command hook is.
- [11:24]
Eleanor
Just magic plastic.
- [11:27]
Elizabeth Craft
They're weird. They're magic.
- [11:29]
Eleanor
Just a plastic hook that's really durable, that comes with strips, and the strips themselves are also very useful. I found that they're better for hanging up, like, posters and things than even masking tape. So that's kind of like a little bonus. But you just stick them to the wall, and then you can just hang anything on them. And I knew I would need a lot.
- [11:48]
Elizabeth Craft
But the thing that makes them magical is that you can hang something heavy from a command hook, but then you can also easily remove the hook when it's time to move out and you don't damage the wall. And I don't understand how both things can be true.
- [12:00]
Eleanor
And yet they are, but very useful. And then I ended up getting more after, so I didn't even have a lot of different sizes, so I felt very vindicated. I would also say, like, just simple, stackable, like, plastic drawers that can go under. I put them under my bed, and that's just useful for, like, extra storage, but something that I think I didn't really do, but I probably should have done just to narrow down what's good to have and what's good not to have is just to, like, in the week or two before you're gonna be packing, just take note of everything you use in a week that you really can't live without and then see, because I feel like there's probably some things that I didn't even think about that I used. Like, I don't even know. I felt like I pretty much used everything that I brought. I didn't regret bringing anything. But I know there are people who bring, like, big appliances, like a big. Some people bring, like vacuums and things like that. And then they're like, oh, well, I could have just gotten them at school. So I guess also knowing, like, what your school provides, also, like, what's in the area, like, if there's like a big CVS or like a big target or something nearby, then you don't necessarily need to bring everything with you. I think that would have been good for me to remember as well. Like, you can get basics, but then, you know, some schools are so off in the middle of nowhere that you can't really do that. So I think just having a good idea of what you use, what you like to have around you in your space is useful.
- [13:26]
Elizabeth Craft
I would say, from my observation, from watching you move in and watching accounts of other people moving in is I think that for some people, maybe for some parents and for some children alike, there's sort of an urge to prepare. To prepare. To prepare. And the way that they can find an outlet for this desire to prepare is by buying stuff. But what I kept saying to you, and I felt vindicated, is you're not gonna have very much space and so don't get a lot of stuff that's gonna take up a lot of space until you know that you're gonna have a place to put it. Because you don't wanna be just crowded out by supplies, Especially if you don't really know if you need those supplies.
- [14:00]
Eleanor
Yeah.
- [14:01]
Elizabeth Craft
Because I think sometimes that urge to, like, well, we're just going to account for every possible need that could ever arise. And that's going to be sort of like, now you're well prepared, but then you're sort of drowning in stuff.
- [14:10]
Eleanor
Oh, well, I will say one thing I got, or multiple things I got that I didn't end up needing was notebooks. Because I just was like in the going back to school mindset.
- [14:22]
Elizabeth Craft
Yeah.
- [14:22]
Eleanor
But then at least for me, at least in my particular school experience. But I feel like it's probably universal if you're taking more like humanities classes. Anything other than pretty much like A math or maybe science class. You're mostly going to be doing things on your laptop. So I now have a bunch of nice blank notebooks that I have to find a new use for. So that would have probably been good for me to know. Also, like, the ability to, like, get books out of the library instead of buying all of your books. Things like that. The space thing. Although I will say one thing that was nice for me was I knew that, like, in order to, like, really feel at home and really feel like I was comfortable, I wanted to have a lot of decorations just because I'm very maximalist. And so I brought a lot of that. And I was happy. I'm glad that I did.
- [15:09]
Elizabeth Craft
Yes.
- [15:10]
Eleanor
That was important for me. So I think also just Eleanor is.
- [15:13]
Elizabeth Craft
An abundance lover, and she brings that energy into every environment that she touches.
- [15:18]
Eleanor
Yes. But it's appreciated by all of my friends and my roommates.
- [15:21]
Elizabeth Craft
No, it's great. Everybody enjoys it. Yeah. Your roommates are very supportive.
- [15:25]
Eleanor
They're very supportive. It does make it feel homier. So I feel like if that's something that's important to you, that's good to keep in the back of your mind, because I feel like it really. It helps me feel more like I've made it my own, and it's like my little haven to go back to.
- [15:39]
Elizabeth Craft
Well, what is some other advice about getting along with roommates? Making new friends? It's such an overwhelming social experience. Do you have any advice for people?
- [15:46]
Eleanor
A useful piece of advice that was given to me by my friends who had already been through their freshman year since I took a gap year was just not to take things too seriously. Like, not to be immediately caught up in, like, the minute dramas and emotions, because it is. It's very heightened and very panicky and almost like there's kind of, like a desperation to everything. Because I think there's also the sense that college is where you meet your lifelong friends and, like, your soulmate and all these people who are going to be. Yeah, that's a lot of pressure to put on friendships. I think you can really feel that in the way that people interact with each other. And I think it makes it just. There's like a kind of weird, frenzied feeling to it. And I think it's good to be like, I don't have to take everything super seriously. Like, you can just let things be what they are. Things will fall into place. You're not gonna find your perfect. I mean, maybe you will, but you probably won't find your Perfect friend group the first month of college. And so many people talk about, like, the sophomore year friend group breakup that was formed in freshman year.
- [16:56]
Elizabeth Craft
Yeah.
- [16:56]
Eleanor
And it's kind of like keeping that in the back of my mind not to be like, I know these people won't be here forever, but just to be like, this is just normal life and things don't have to have, like, new weird, high pressure rules. It's still just people meeting each other and being friends or not being friends.
- [17:12]
Elizabeth Craft
Keeping a sense of perspective.
- [17:14]
Eleanor
Yeah. And as far as roommates, I think I got very lucky. I really get along with my roommates. I love them. But I think it really does depend on whether or not you're sleeping in the same room. We're lucky enough to all have our own room, although I sleep in the common room. So for me, it was like I have to be a little bit more figuring out what I need for myself in order to feel comfortable and feeling comfortable asking things of them and kind of all meeting each other where you're at. So I think just being very, like, open, communicative. It's generic advice, but it does help to just be very. Yeah, I would say just communicative about what you need, what's not working. Make sure to have a friendly tone. Keep things as light as possible, because it does. I do have friends who have really unpleasant roommate experiences. And it does just make it absolutely miserable to come home and feel like your home isn't a happy place to be.
- [18:08]
Gretchen Rubin
Yeah, that's a terrible feeling. Yeah. You don't want that. Now, Eleanor, what about advice for getting schoolwork done? Because obviously you're there for academics. Partly.
- [18:18]
Eleanor
Yeah.
- [18:18]
Gretchen Rubin
What's your advice on that?
- [18:20]
Eleanor
My advice for that. The biggest thing I would say, even though I am guilty of this, is not doing work in your room, or at least definitely not in your bed. Because it's been important for me to keep just work and everything else separate. It's been good to, like, I go to the library to do my work, and that's where I get all of my work done. And when I'm in the library, it's like I'm not going to be doing anything other than doing my work. And so it just makes it easier on me to separate everything, because then it's like, when I'm home, I don't have to feel guilty about not doing work, but the more work I do when I'm home, the more I kind of feel like anytime I'm not doing something, I should be doing work. But then also at the same time, it's like, I don't have to because I'm at home. And I find that it just makes me less productive but more stressed out.
- [19:09]
Gretchen Rubin
That's great insight.
- [19:11]
Eleanor
Yeah. And something else. I think it's just important to stay on top of everything that is urgent that you really need to do versus things that can be longer. Classic time management stuff. But just figuring out some sort of tool. I honestly haven't really nailed down anything that works for me besides just writing down scribbled notes of what's useful. So I should probably work on that. But just knowing what I need to get done. Something also is. Beginning of the year, I was doing all of my readings completely and, like, thoroughly taking notes on all of them. And that was great. But it really did slow me down a lot. And then I realized most of the people in this class aren't really doing all of the readings. They're sort of skimming some of them or figuring out, like, what they need to take from them. And that was useful to know, like, what are the actual expectations for the work that's given?
- [19:59]
Elizabeth Craft
Being strategic about how much effort you put into every single assignment and realizing they're not all need to be done. Exactly. 100%. Yeah.
- [20:08]
Eleanor
Yeah. And that the professors aren't even expecting you to be doing that, because sometimes they don't really lay that out clearly for you. Especially if, like, a lot of my classes weren't really for freshmen. And so a lot of the people just kind of already understood that. So I think talking to the professors about what their expectations were was really helpful for me. But also just not being too hard on yourself, like, first semester, freshman year, there's a lot that's new and a lot that's going on. And something important for me was I realized I kind of had a moment where I actually had to call you mom. And I was like, there's just one too many things that I'm trying to get done right now. And, like, in order for me to be doing my work and feeling like everything is going well, I need to, like, drop one of these clubs or drop one of these, like, applications that I'm doing. And that was helpful for me to be like, what is the thing that's just one too many things? That's kind of the straw that broke the camel's back.
- [20:59]
Gretchen Rubin
Yeah.
- [20:59]
Elizabeth Craft
And I remember you saying to me, I don't need to do every single thing first semester, freshman year.
- [21:03]
Eleanor
Yes. Yes. And that was definitely right.
- [21:05]
Elizabeth Craft
And finally, last question. What's your advice for Staying healthy. So college students are sort of notorious for eating junk food, staying up all night, sleeping all day. Some people are doing a lot of exercise, some people aren't.
- [21:19]
Eleanor
Well, I really am my mother's daughter. But I mean, it's like all goes back to habits.
- [21:27]
Elizabeth Craft
There you go.
- [21:28]
Eleanor
Cause I'd say just developing routines so that you don't even have to think about it. And then also like developing things alongside other people. Like, it's been good for me to be like, I'm making sure that I'm eating three meals a day, which also stops me from snacking, but also just makes me feel better and more productive and regulates everything else, like sleep. And when I do my work and everything, it's useful to be like, okay, well, I'm generally gonna eat with these people at these times. So then it just keeps me in check. Or like this semester my friend and I are joining the outing club, which is going on hikes in nature, which I feel like is healthy in multiple ways, but doing it with someone else, it's like we hold each other accountable and it makes it more fun, it makes me more likely to keep doing it. So things like that and also just having people around you that you feel like have good habits. I feel like all of my friends have good habits. But I think if I was friends with someone who like, you know, slept in all day or was slacking off a lot or I felt like was generally unhealthy, I think I definitely would get sucked into that a little bit. So just keeping that in mind is useful. But I think honestly it is just kind of the nature of the beast, that it's not the healthiest time.
- [22:39]
Elizabeth Craft
Yeah.
- [22:40]
Eleanor
So there's always going to be a little bit of that.
- [22:43]
Elizabeth Craft
Yeah. A little bit of staying up very late and running around and definitely falling.
- [22:48]
Eleanor
In my case, that was something I discovered. Yeah, I fell a couple times. So, yeah, just unexpected things. That was something else. That's like health and more of a medical sense. But having like Pepto Bismol and I got probably like five or six different colds in like a four month period.
- [23:08]
Elizabeth Craft
Yes. Yeah.
- [23:09]
Eleanor
Which is awful. Like, being sick in school is just so unpleasant. But I was glad to have nyquil, dayquil, everything.
- [23:18]
Elizabeth Craft
So don't stock up on all the necessities. But for the things that you need, if you're sick, have them ready in a kit somewhere. That's.
- [23:26]
Gretchen Rubin
I will never forget when I had the flu in college during exams and took Theraflu for the first time. Didn't know it made you sleepy before my three hour English essay exam.
- [23:38]
Eleanor
Oh my gosh. That's horrible.
- [23:40]
Gretchen Rubin
That will live as one of the worst three hours of my life.
- [23:43]
Elizabeth Craft
Wow. Wow. That is because that stuff knocks you out.
- [23:48]
Eleanor
That is terrible.
- [23:49]
Elizabeth Craft
Well, Eleanor, thank you so much for joining us. It was so fun to have you part of this and to share your experience from freshman year.
- [23:57]
Eleanor
Thank you for having me. It's been a long time. My last time on here I was like 11.
- [24:01]
Elizabeth Craft
I know, I know. You've come a long way.
- [24:04]
Gretchen Rubin
Good advice. Yeah.
- [24:05]
Elizabeth Craft
So let us know if you do try this at home and how considering the advice from a college freshman works for you. Let us know on Instagram, threads, TikTok, Facebook. Drop us an email@podcastretchenrubin.com or as always, you can go to the show notes. This is happiercast.com 519 coming up, we've.
- [24:22]
Gretchen Rubin
Got a happy happiness hack about something to consider before you enter a social situation. But first, this break. You know how sometimes a meal leaves you energized and other times sluggish, foggy, or even hungrier. That may be your glucose talking. Foods that are sugar and carb heavy and you know my experience here cause your body's glucose levels to spike, often followed by a crash. This matters because it turns out 88% of us have suboptimal metabolic health. So glucose could be the next big thing to track when it comes to health. That's why we're excited about Lingo, a new biowearable from Abbott that tracks your glucose in real time.
- [25:12]
Elizabeth Craft
I've been wearing Lingo for weeks now and I've learned that for my body, if I move around after I eat a meal, my spike is much more gradual, much lower. And so I've learned that I just need to get up and move around after I eat. What works for me might work very differently for you, but that's what works for my body. To see how your body responds to food and learn what you can do to improve your metabolism, try Lingo. It starts at $49 for a two week plan. No prescription needed for a limited time. Save 10% on your first order with happier@helolingo.com the Lingo Glucose system is for.
- [25:47]
Gretchen Rubin
Users 18 years and older, not on insulin. It is not intended for diagnosis of diseases, including diabetes. For more information, please visit hello lingo.com.
- [25:58]
Elizabeth Craft
Us it's the new year and so many of us have made resolutions about how to make our lives healthier or more positive. So for the new year, why not let audible Expand your life by listening on Audible. You can Explore more than 1 million audiobooks, podcasts and exclusive Audible originals all in one easy app.
- [26:20]
Gretchen Rubin
And you can tap into your well being with titles that will inspire and motivate you. Gretch, you know I love Audible. Right now I am listening to the Art of Small Talk by Casey Wilson and Jessica St. Clair. I am brushing up on my small talk skills because, you know, that helps both in your personal life and your professional life. And although I am somewhat of a good talker, I can always get better. Start positive habits and reach the goals you set for yourself. Start listening today. Sign up for a free 30 day trial@Audible.com Happier all right, Gretchen, we are back with this week's Happiness Hack.
- [27:01]
Elizabeth Craft
Yeah, so one of the things we talk about all the time is the importance of friendship and social relationships to our happiness. Because it's a key, maybe the key to happiness. So one thing that is nice to have is ways to make social relationships and social engagements easier, more pleasant, where you just feel like you're being a good guest, you're being a good host. And I was reading a very charming novel. It's an adult novel by Marjorie Sharp called Clooney Brown. The name of the main character of the novel is Clooney Brown. I knew Marjorie Sharp because she wrote the Rescuers about the little mice that rescued the prisoner. Did you read this when you were little?
- [27:38]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes. I love the Rescuers and I think.
- [27:40]
Elizabeth Craft
It was made into a movie. So I had no idea that Marjorie Sharp had ever written books for adults. But anyway, she was a very well known reader of adult novels. So I'm reading those. But so here's the hack. So there's this character of Betty who's this very, very beautiful and charming person, and she's coming to visit an English country estate and she walks in and she's meeting the parents of this guy who she's friends with and sort of seen. And the novel says, but she had brought with her, as the good guest brings, a piece of embroidery. A more fruitful topic still, her mother proposed to decorate her townhouse with window boxes. There were eight windows and a porch top. Would Lady Carmel be so very kind as to give a few hints on the most suitable flowers for the different seasons? This was a commission after Lady Carmel's own heart. She accepted it with delight, happily prophesying that it would take a long time to work out. And as the novel goes on, you see that Lady Carmilla loves talking about this subject. She's making lists she's drawing up plans. And it's intimated that, in fact, it may not even be true that Betty's mother has these window boxes, but that just Betty had planned ahead, thinking, oh, this would be a delightful conversation for Lady Carmel. And so, as a good guess, she brought this topic with her as a good guest brings a piece of embroidery. And this reminded me of a friend of mine who says that every time before he goes to a party or a cocktail party or a conference or whatever, before he goes in, he checks the news for something lighthearted and fun, so that if he is having trouble making conversation with somebody, he'll be like, oh, did you see that blah, blah, blah, was just nominated for an Oscar? Or, did you see that it's the coldest day we've ever had for 45 years? Or whatever. Just as kind of an icebreaker. And I thought, this is a really good idea to think about it in advance.
- [29:36]
Gretchen Rubin
Very good advice.
- [29:37]
Elizabeth Craft
People say, oh, small talk is shallow and trivial. I don't like making small talk. But the fact is, a lot of times you have to start with small talk before you go to deep talk. And you want to show that you're friendly and make friendly conversation, but it's just hard to know what to even talk about. One of the things I write about in life in Five Senses is you can often point out something that you're experiencing with your five senses, like, oh, we're listening to this song. Do you remember who's the artist? Or, oh, have you tried the pigs in a blanket? How do they. You know, which hors d'oeuvre do you recommend? Because that's something that we both share. But I thought this was a good idea, too, to think about whether it's just like a piece of news that applies to everybody, or perhaps you take into consideration a particular person and think, well, what would be something that this person would enjoy talking about? And we'll get off on the right foot.
- [30:23]
Gretchen Rubin
Well, and as we know, Gretch, many, many people enjoy giving advice. So asking for advice is usually a safe way into a conversation, which is what Betty did here.
- [30:34]
Elizabeth Craft
Well, and I didn't even think about that aspect of it, but you're exactly right. People love to share and teach and give advice.
- [30:42]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes.
- [30:43]
Elizabeth Craft
Excellent.
- [30:43]
Gretchen Rubin
And now for read 25 and 25. Gretchen, this year, our challenge is to read 25 minutes a day every day of 2025. And we're gonna be touching on it throughout the year, checking up on it. One thing you and I are doing for our 25 and 25 is the slow read of War and Peace with Simon. Ha. And a lot of listeners have joined in on that. We're getting into it. We're past page 100. Well past.
- [31:12]
Elizabeth Craft
Yeah. If anybody wants to follow along. It's called Footnotes and Tangents. It's Simon Hazel's substack. It's super fun. You and I are doing it. Our husbands, Jamie and Adam are doing it. Our mother already did it once, she's doing it again. Our father is doing it. We're just war and peacing it up. Yes, but, Elizabeth, I found a hack that is even increasing my enjoyment of War and Peace, and it's thanks to you.
- [31:33]
Gretchen Rubin
Oh, what is it?
- [31:34]
Elizabeth Craft
Well, Elizabeth, you love listening, listening to audiobooks. And you're always talking about how much you enjoy audiobooks. You love listening. You get through so many books that way. And I tend not to listen to audiobooks unless it's a book that I know very, very well. I had loved that novella, the English Understand Wool by Helen DeWitt. I had read it two or three times. It's so short. I just read it and reread it. And then I decided I'm going to listen to it because that'll be kind of a different way of experiencing something I love. I love the novel Piranesi by Susanna Clarke. I listened to that, just experience it in a new way. So I decided to do the same thing with War and Peace. So I read it with my eyes before I listen to it. But I'm really finding you experience in a book in a different way when you're listening to it. And I'm finding that it really increases my enjoyment of it. And I don't think I would have been so inclined to do this if I hadn't had your example of just loving audio.
- [32:28]
Gretchen Rubin
Well, Gretch, I love this idea. Cause I'm also reading it with my eyes. But I'm gonna follow suit. I'm gonna do this as well. And then it'll also help me keep everything straight. Because there are so many characters, so many names, a lot is going on. So I think listening will reinforce it and just be pleasurable. So I'm gonna do that with you.
- [32:48]
Elizabeth Craft
One of the things I would say if somebody's thinking about doing this is if you're doing it with Simon Hazel. He recommends one of three translations. And so I bought the translation that seemed like the one that he was sort of slightly putting, saying he was his favorite. So I got that one. And then when I got the audiobook, I Got that one. Also, I will warn you, I accidentally got. I checked one out of the library and it turned out that it was wildly condensed. And the first three chapters, I was like, what is going on? And then I realized it was some highly condensed version. So you gotta make sure you get one that's the whole text. But now, because the translation is. People who are really deep into translation will often talk about the differences in translation. And I kind of wish I was listening to a different translation because since we're reading it so slowly, you might remember, like, oh, that's interesting that they use this phrase instead of that phrase. Or like, he ambled into the room versus he sauntered into the room. Or like Prince Vasily, was he sneaky or was he foxy or whatever. So if I were gonna do it again, I mean, I got the book, so I'm not gonna rebuy. We've got so many copies of War and Peace in our extended family. But I do think that might make it more interesting is just to see what are these choices that translators are making. If you don't. You don't speak a language, it's not often that you get a chance to really, like, notice something like that. I think it would just be another layer. I think I was talking to mom and I think she said she was going to try getting a different translation because now she's read her version already, so she would really be able to pick it up.
- [34:15]
Gretchen Rubin
Okay, I'll do that too.
- [34:16]
Elizabeth Craft
The whole idea of slow read is by reading slowly, like, you can get yourself through a really long book that you might not otherwise undertake. And also, you can really take your time and see, sit with everything that's happening. And so this is just a way to deepen it. So I'm really having fun with it.
- [34:30]
Gretchen Rubin
Yay. Love all of our stuff for read 25 and 25. Gretch. So much fun.
- [34:35]
Elizabeth Craft
Absolutely. And now for a listener question.
- [34:38]
Gretchen Rubin
This comes from Dave. He says, love your show. I was introduced to your work through the 10% Happier podcast, and I'm working my way through your old podcast, currently on number 105. And it got me thinking about. About snacking. I'm a rebel, so I'm not quite sure how to tackle this problem. My issue is late night snacking. I'm not an obliger, so abstaining completely may or may not work for me. It seems to work for a while and then eventually I binge as a rebel. How can I reduce the amount of late night snacking I do? Any Advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
- [35:12]
Elizabeth Craft
Great. So I love a question related to the tendencies. And if you don't know what tendency you are or know about the tendencies, just go to GretchenRubin.com quiz and you can take a quiz and find out your and what that means. But for the purposes of this, we'll just launch in. So first let's talk about tips for rebels specifically, and then we'll have tips generally. So tips related to rebels specifically. It's one thing to try, Dave, is to think about your identity. So you're not snacking because you're not supposed to or because you said you would or because a doctor recommended that you cut back on snacking or something like that. It's your identity. This is the kind of person you are. You're a healthy person. You're a disciplined person. You're a person who sticks to his word. You're a person who can do what he wants. You also kind of related, think about the idea of, like, you can't be controlled. Like, oh, you know, big food wants to get me sticking my hand into a crinkly package late at night, but I'll show them they can't make me that sense of control. It's always coming back to what you choose. Rebels can do anything they choose. And just say, like, this is just something that I don't choose to do. It's not about what you're supposed to do. It's like, that's not the kind of person I am. That's not what I choose. And then I will throw in just something that I thought was very funny that a rebel told me. This rebel had very healthy eating habits. And I said, how, as a rebel, do you have very healthy eating habits? And he said, every morning, first thing before I've eaten anything else, I have a piece of hard candy. Because I could never have hard candy as a kid. And I'm like, I can do whatever I want, and I'm gonna have candy before I even eat breakfast. And they said, because I do that, then the rest of the day I eat healthfully. Cause I'm like, look, I already had my candy. I can do anything I want. And I choose to eat healthfully. And so I thought that was funny because it's just going to this idea of choice and making your own decisions for yourself. So lean into identity. So those are the ones that I would say maybe are Rebel specific. But Elizabeth, offer up some of the ones that are more general.
- [37:11]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes. Always effective is the strategy of inconvenience.
- [37:15]
Elizabeth Craft
Oh, yeah.
- [37:15]
Gretchen Rubin
So make that snack food hard to get.
- [37:18]
Elizabeth Craft
Yes. Works better than you imagine.
- [37:21]
Gretchen Rubin
Don't buy it in the first place. Just pass by it at the grocery store. That is definitely extremely effective.
- [37:28]
Elizabeth Craft
Yes.
- [37:29]
Gretchen Rubin
One that people find really useful is to brush your teeth. So brush your teeth to go to bed earlier. And then you might be less likely to want to have a bag of chips and mess up your nice teeth. Close down the kitchen. This is like, turn off the lights, start the dishwasher, close the cabinets. It's like the kitchen is closed for tonight. Like a restaurant kitchen.
- [37:52]
Elizabeth Craft
And then something I would add from writing Life in five senses is find a different sensory stimulation. Because I think sometimes people snack because we're just trying to give ourselves like a little jolt of energy or a little treat. Sometimes if you run your hands through clay or yarn, or I often will put on perfume even at night because it just gives me sensory stimulation. Or splash cold water on your face or plunge your hands in cold water. Any sensory stimulation or sensory shock can give you that little bit of energy. It's something to try.
- [38:22]
Gretchen Rubin
Good advice. Good luck, Dave. Let us know how it goes. And coming up, Gretchen, you give yourself an email to marriage. But first, this break. Okay? We are back with demerits and gold stars. And this week, Gretch, you are up with a happiness demerit. It.
- [38:46]
Elizabeth Craft
Okay, so I have two emails and you've said I'm very email centric. People often have like a dominant form that they use. I'm definitely email centric and I check my main email many, many times every hour. So I'm on top of that email. I have another email as well, and it's a re real email. It's not a fakey email. It's an email that's legitimate. But I only check it once every few weeks. I always forget that it's there. And that's a problem because since it is a legitimate email, some small group of people end up using it. And then I realize, oh, I've missed something, or I've looked very inattentive to somebody where I would have normally answered them right away. And it's just hard to say to somebody like, oh, I just didn't check my email because I'm the kind of person who checks my email all the time. And it's funny because I will say to people, you gotta use the other email. But it's hard because things will auto fill in and so it can be tricky to manage. So anyway, I should just get in the habit of checking it it every other day or something. It's not a big deal because there's usually not much in there. But if there is stuff in there, I usually do want to see it. And instead I just let it languish and then I dread opening it because I'll be like, oh my gosh, I wish I'd answered that a week ago. Or, oh, I would have gone to that if I'd known about it. And then I get that bad feeling that makes me want to do it even less.
- [40:01]
Gretchen Rubin
All right, well, now that you've said it, hopefully you will do it.
- [40:05]
Elizabeth Craft
Exactly. That's the point of the demerit. How about you, Elizabeth? What is the gold star for you this week?
- [40:10]
Gretchen Rubin
Well, Gretch, I am giving a gold star to my corgis, Daisy and Nacho, because they were so good when we were at the hotel during the evacuation. You know, we took them with us. There were a lot of dogs in the hotel. Our dogs are barkers. As I have discussed many times, they do bark. But you know what? They were so well behaved. They barely barked. They were nice to everybody. They were sweet. It's as if they knew we can't get us kicked out of this hotel to behave. And they did. And they were such a comfort to us. So fun to have them. So gold star to Daisy and Nacho.
- [40:48]
Elizabeth Craft
Aw, that's so fun. It was so fun to see the pictures of them having their little Eloise moment. Yes, the resource for this week. I wanna remind everybody I have a newsletter, too. It's the five Things Making Me Happy newsletter. And it is so fun to do. It's five things. It's research, it's funny, observations, pictures, all different kinds of things. Just whatever is making me happy. That's once a week it's free. And then once a month I have a roundup of hacks. I have one that's a roundup of fun things from the podcast. You can sign up and learn more@happiercast.com Newsletter and Elizabeth, what are we reading? In addition to War and Peace, of.
- [41:25]
Gretchen Rubin
Course, I'm reading Shred Sisters by Betsy Lerner.
- [41:29]
Elizabeth Craft
And I am reading the Crow Trap by Ann Cleaves. And that's it for this episode of Happy. Remember to try this at home. Consider taking some advice from a college freshman. Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you.
- [41:43]
Gretchen Rubin
Thanks to our executive producer, Chuck Reed and everyone at Lemonada. Get in touch. Gretchen's on Instagram, threads, Facebook and TikTok Gretchenrubin. And I'm on Instagram and threads at Liz Craft. Our email address is podcastretchenrubin.com and here's your right reminder.
- [42:01]
Elizabeth Craft
If you love the show, leave a review to let us know. We really do value the reviews. That's how a lot of people discover our show. People read the reviews.
- [42:10]
Gretchen Rubin
They do. Until next week. I'm Elizabeth Craft.
- [42:14]
Elizabeth Craft
And I'm Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward.
- [42:26]
Gretchen Rubin
So, Gretch, what I want to know with your War and Peace audiobook is how long is it?
- [42:31]
Elizabeth Craft
Oh, my gosh, I don't know. Let me look. That's a great question. I didn't even think to check. Wow. It's about 60 hours.
- [42:40]
Gretchen Rubin
Wow. So that's like an intense work week, basically.
- [42:43]
Elizabeth Craft
It is.
- [42:44]
Gretchen Rubin
Makes the Barbra Streisand book look short.
- [42:48]
Elizabeth Craft
Yeah. From the onward project.