Ep. 524 Use a Messy Closet, a 3-Hour Rule for Difficult People & Renowned Judy Blume on Reading

Summary

Happier with Gretchen Rubin – Episode 524 Summary

Release Date: March 5, 2025
Guest: Judy Blume, Renowned Author
Hosts: Gretchen Rubin and Elizabeth Craft
Produced by: The Onward Project, Sales and Distribution by Lemonada Media

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1. Introduction and Episode Overview

In Episode 524 of Happier with Gretchen Rubin, hosts Gretchen Rubin and her sister Elizabeth Craft delve into practical strategies for enhancing daily happiness. The episode centers around two main themes: effectively managing priorities using the "messy closet" metaphor and implementing a "three-hour rule" for challenging social interactions. Additionally, the episode features an insightful interview with the legendary author Judy Blume, discussing the joys of reading and the challenges of book censorship.

2. Listener Story: Embracing the Obliger Tendency [04:27]

The episode opens with a heartfelt testimonial from listener Briana, who identifies as an "Obliger"—a term derived from Rubin's Four Tendencies framework. Briana shares how recognizing her tendency has significantly boosted her productivity. By joining an online co-working platform that provided external accountability, she became three times more productive. This shift allowed her to balance personal needs with work and school responsibilities effectively.

Notable Quote:

"I have become three times more productive and ensure that my list includes personal needs as well as work and school. I've redefined productivity and have been able to take care of others while also making sure I take care of myself."
— Briana, [04:27]

Rubin emphasizes the importance of understanding one's tendencies to implement effective productivity strategies, encouraging listeners to take the Four Tendencies quiz available at gretchenandrubin.com/quiz.

3. The "Messy Closet" Metaphor: Managing Priorities [04:45]

Gretchen and Elizabeth introduce the concept of the "messy closet," a metaphor for temporarily setting aside important tasks without dismissing their significance. This approach helps individuals manage overwhelming responsibilities by organizing them into manageable segments, revisiting them when the timing is more suitable.

Elizabeth Craft shares a personal example:

"We're writing a novel, and we got stalled on it, and we did a big sort of mental reset to restart working on it. At the same time, we got this huge rewrite we had to do on our Netflix pilot, and it got to a point where we just couldn't deal with both of these things."
— Elizabeth Craft, [05:43]

This strategy underscores the value of realistic planning and the importance of having the right language to communicate priorities clearly within teams or personal projects.

4. Happiness Hack: Implementing a Three-Hour Rule for Gatherings [10:36]

Hosts introduce a practical happiness hack inspired by an article from The Wall Street Journal. The suggestion is to limit potentially stressful gatherings to three hours to maintain amicable interactions and prevent fatigue or inappropriate behavior from influencing the event's quality.

Notable Insights:

• Chuck Reed references a therapist's advice on setting time limits for gatherings involving difficult individuals:

  "A therapist was commenting that if you're in a situation where you suspect that people might have trouble getting along... she suggests limiting gatherings to three hours."
  — Chuck Reed, [10:39]

• Gretchen Rubin adds:

  "Three hours is good because it's enough that you really have spent time with people. It's not just rushing someone in and out the door."
  — Gretchen Rubin, [11:55]

The hosts discuss practical tips for implementing this rule, such as planning an exit strategy to ensure a smooth departure when the time limit is reached.

5. Interview with Judy Blume: The Power of Reading and Combating Censorship [12:38]

The highlight of the episode is an in-depth conversation with Judy Blume, a prolific author known for her impactful works in children's, young adult, and adult fiction. The discussion encompasses Blume's passion for reading, her experiences with book censorship, and the importance of maintaining reading habits.

Key Topics Discussed:

• The Joy of Reading:

  • Elizabeth Craft shares her personal connection to reading:

    "For me, it takes me out of whatever's going on in my life and allows me to be in someone else's life in someone else's story."
    — Elizabeth Craft, [14:19]

• Managing Reading Time:

  • Elizabeth explains how establishing a routine helps integrate reading into daily life:

    "I make time every afternoon... after I get home, just conk out with a book."
    — Elizabeth Craft, [16:28]

• Insights from Bookstore Operations:

  • Judy Blume discusses her involvement with the nonprofit bookstore Books and Books in Key West and shares observations on how people engage with books in a retail setting:

    "Every now and then I'll do a staff recommendation. And I see the difference. It really makes people want that book."
    — Elizabeth Craft, [17:37]

• Facing Censorship:

  • Blume recounts her experiences with book bannings in the 1980s and her activism to combat censorship:

    "Somebody telling you that your books are dangerous... I was really lucky, and I found an organization called the National Coalition Against Censorship."
    — Judy Blume, [23:39]

• Current Censorship Challenges:

  • The conversation shifts to present-day censorship issues, highlighting the increasing governmental involvement and its implications for freedom of expression.

Notable Quote:

"When you learn to speak out, I think it helps you feel better. You're doing something. You're not just sitting at home saying, poor little me, what can I do."
— Judy Blume, [23:39]

Blume emphasizes resilience and community support in the face of censorship, encouraging both authors and readers to advocate for literary freedom.

6. Closing Segments: Demerits and Gold Stars [35:28]

The episode concludes with the hosts engaging in their signature segments—Demerits and Gold Stars—providing light-hearted reflections and acknowledgments.

• Demerit:

  • Gretchen Rubin humorously admits to falling behind on her goal of reading a physical book each month:

    "I'm reading War and Peace every day, but I haven't read an actual book, full book yet."
    — Gretchen Rubin, [31:06]

• Gold Star:

  • Chuck Reed awards a gold star to Jenna Bush Hagar for spotlighting his "one sentence journal," appreciating the unexpected public recognition:

    "I was so happy to see that. It was very sweet because many listeners and readers took screenshots and sent them to me."
    — Chuck Reed, [33:09]

7. Final Thoughts and Upcoming Events [35:08]

Before signing off, Gretchen announces her upcoming book tour starting on April 1st, detailing numerous cities across the United States where she'll connect with listeners and readers. She encourages audience participation and expresses excitement about meeting new communities.

Event Details:

• Cities Include: Washington, D.C., Boston, Kansas City, Lexington, Bloomington, Tulsa, San Diego, Los Angeles, Wake Forest, Coral Gables, Miami, Tampa, and New York City.
• More Information: happiercast.com/secrets

8. Highlights and Takeaways

• Understanding Personal Tendencies: Recognizing whether you are an Obliger, Upholder, Questioner, or Rebel can significantly enhance productivity and personal happiness.
• Effective Priority Management: Utilizing metaphors like the "messy closet" can help in organizing and temporarily setting aside tasks without losing their importance.
• Social Interaction Strategies: Implementing a three-hour limit for potentially stressful gatherings can maintain positive relationships and prevent social fatigue.
• The Importance of Reading: Engaging with books offers an escape, fosters empathy, and enriches one's life, while combating censorship is crucial for literary freedom.
• Community and Support: Building connections through bookshops, activism, and public engagements strengthens both personal growth and societal well-being.

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For more insights and practical happiness strategies, tune into future episodes of Happier with Gretchen Rubin.

Transcript

[Gretchen Rubin]

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[Elizabeth Craft]

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[Judy Blume]

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[Chuck Reed]

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[Judy Blume]

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[Chuck Reed]

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[Judy Blume]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

Look for the blue box at retailers everywhere or shop jlab.com and use code happier for 15% off your order today. Lemonade.

[Chuck Reed]

Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast where we talk about ideas and strategies for making our daily lives happier. This week we'll talk about why you might want to stash something in the messy closet. And we will be talking to the legendary author Judy Blume. I'm Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits, secrets of adulthood, human, human nature. I'm in my little home office in New York City, and joining me today from Los Angeles is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. And Elizabeth, I would say that for both of us, a Judy Blume conversation is definitely something that we have wanted to do our whole lives.

[Gretchen Rubin]

That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer living in la. And yes, Gretchen. I mean, my mind is blown.

[Chuck Reed]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right now I'm thinking of. I think we shared it a copy of Are youe There, God? It's me, Margaret, with the purple cover that was just and falling apart. I mean, we've read everything she's ever written. Huge fans.

[Chuck Reed]

Yes. And are you there? God has the rare appearance of a Gretchen in fiction. So I appreciate that she's not a great Gretchen, but she's there. But before we launch in, I want to announce my book tour. I am starting my book tour on April 1st. All the information [e-mail] Secrets because of Secrets of Adulthood. But if you are in the following cities, I am coming your way. And of course I always love to see listeners. So please come. Washington, D.C. boston, Kansas City, Missouri of course, Lexington, Kentucky, Bloomington, Indiana, Tulsa, Oklahoma, San Diego, California, Corta Madera, Los Angeles, Wake Forest, Washington, Coral Gables, Florida, Miami, Florida, Tampa, Florida and New York City. So. So I'm going to a lot of different places and I really hope to connect with a lot of listeners and readers there. I can't wait.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So fun.

[Chuck Reed]

We coming your way, Elizabeth?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes, I think I will be at that event, Gretchen.

[Chuck Reed]

Likely you're a good sister.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And then Gretchen, we heard from Briana on the subject of being an obliger. She said, I have listened to the podcast off and on over the years, but just found myself taking the tendency quiz. I am an Obliger. This realization has helped me immensely, starting with joining an online co working platform. The accountability of a few other people on screen where our list is visible and we celebrate at the end is just the outer accountability I needed. I have become three times more productive and ensure that my list includes personal needs as well as work and school. I've redefined productivity and have been able to take care of others while also making sure I take care of myself. I am a big fan and a transformed listener. That's wonderful, Gretch.

[Chuck Reed]

That is so great to hear. Yeah, sometimes you just need that insight. Like, oh, I need the outer accountability. And then when you get it, everything unlocks. If you want to take the quiz that Briana mentions, it'[e-mail] quiz and it will tell you whether you're in a polar question or Obliger rebel and give you a little report. So I'm always thrilled to hear when people benefit from the four tendencies. That's so great.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Chuck Reed]

This week our try this at home suggestion is to stash something in the messy closet.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Now, I think you're meaning this metaphorically, Gretch. Not literally.

[Chuck Reed]

Yes. Okay. So the way this came up in my life is so, you know, I work with this brilliant team and we were getting together and something came up and somebody said, hey, I think we need to put this in the messy closet for now. And we all just really glommed on to this phrase, the messy closet. And what the messy closet is, is you're not saying that something's not important or you're not saying that you're never going to deal with it. You're just saying this is not the time to deal with it. It's not going to be dealt with right now. We're going to stash it in the messy closet because everything in there is just very messy and needs to be sorted out. But not right now. It's important, but it's just about. You're going to take it out of the closet when the time is right.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I love this, Gretch. Of course, you know, I do have a lot of actual messy closets.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, you do.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So this one really resonates with me. And as soon as you said this, I thought of something that Sarah and I have stashed in the messy closet. So, you know, we're writing a novel, and we got stalled on it, and we did this big sort of mental reset to restart working on it. At the same time, we got this huge rewrite we had to do on our Netflix pilot, and it got to a point where we just couldn't deal with both of these things.

[Chuck Reed]

Right.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So we just had to put the novel in the messy closet because just couldn't deal with it right now.

[Chuck Reed]

Right.

[Gretchen Rubin]

We will pull it back out once we're done with this pilot, but we just had to stash it.

[Chuck Reed]

Yeah. I think it's a way to be realistic with yourself that not all things can happen at all times with the Netflix project. It has a deadline attached to it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Exactly.

[Chuck Reed]

Now, I know that you and Sarah have talked about the problem for the two of you if you don't have a deadline and how you have to sort of create your own deadlines, because you don't. But now you've done so much work on it, plausible that you would abandon it because it's just like, so much, some cost. But it is good to be like, okay, we're gonna deal with this, but then the minute that we can, we're gonna open up the closet and deal with it. And, you know, it's just a good example of having the right language for something. It conveys the right associations. I think that's really useful. My team talking about the messy closet. It's very clarifying. Cause everybody knows what we mean by that. We don't have to argue about. No, no. This thing is really important. It's like, no, you're not saying it's not important. I guess it's kind of like saying that you're putting something on the back. And, Eliza, I guess you and I don't cook, so maybe that metaphor doesn't resonate with us.

[Gretchen Rubin]

That's true.

[Chuck Reed]

But messy closets, we think about a lot for one way or another.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I do also like that it implies a little bit of chaos, whereas a bag burner doesn't. At least not for us. Yes, we're not putting it in a clean closet. We're putting it in the messy closet.

[Chuck Reed]

It's something that it's going to be a thing to deal with it. And there's a lot going on in there that does not look pretty. But eventually it will get sorted.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And yes, hopefully the time will come very soon. Gretchen, will Sarah and I pull our novel out of our messy closet?

[Chuck Reed]

Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And get it all nice and cleaned.

[Chuck Reed]

Up and out into the world. Well, let us know if you do try this at home and how stashing something in the messy closet works for you. What have you stashed in the messy closet? Let us know on Instagram threads, TikTok, Facebook, email [e-mail] or go to the show notes happiercast.com 524 for everything related to this episode.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Coming up, we've got a happiness hack that could make your time with others turn out better. But first, this break. Everybody who listens to this podcast knows you and I are not great cooks. No, but we do want to cook more. We want to have healthy meals, do meal planning well. Marley Spoon has made that possible. It's ridiculously easy with the meal kits they deliver. Even you and I can cook with Marley Spoon. You know, I love soup and they have an amazing creamy tomato soup that even I can make.

[Judy Blume]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

Why not expand your life by listening on Audible? I listen to Audible every single day of my life. It is one of my great joys in Life. Explore over 1 million audiobooks, podcasts and exclusive Audible originals all in one easy app. Tap into your well being with titles that will inspire and motivate you. You can find insight and expert advice on health, relationships, career, finance and so much more.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Right now, I'm listening to an audiobook by Dan Pink that I love called the Power of Regret. And it is just giving me so many ideas and I love that I can listen to it on the go. I love listening and learning just while I'm out and about. So start positive habits and reach the goals you set for yourself. Start listening today. Sign up for a free 30 day trial at audible.com.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, Gretch, we are back with this week's Happiness Hack.

[Chuck Reed]

I love when there's a very specific metric put around something, and I think sometimes this can get a little bit out of control. And people put numbers attached to things that don't really lend themselves to numbers, but sometimes numbers are really useful. And I was reading an article in the Wall Street Journal called Boomers and Gen Xers Enter Their Gray Divorce Era and Thanksgiving Won't Be the Same. And what caught my eye is that a therapist was commenting that if you're in a situation where you suspect that people might have trouble getting along. So she was talking about specifically, like, in a divorce context. But this comes up in many contexts. She observed people can be amicable for shorter periods of time. So she suggests limiting gatherings to three hours. And I just thought that was like a good number to have in your mind. People can keep it together for a while, but after a while they get tired. If it's like a holiday occasion, maybe they're like, drinking and so their inhibitions start dropping. So maybe like less attractive behavior starts emerging. It just gets later at night, so people are getting sleepy. And just after a certain amount of time, it just gets harder to stay on your best behavior.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes. And three hours is good because it's enough that you really have spent time with people.

[Chuck Reed]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It's not just rushing someone in and out the door.

[Chuck Reed]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

This goes with something we talk about, which is plan your exit.

[Chuck Reed]

Plan your exit. Like, if you're in a place and you're like, I think after three hours, I'm gonna have had enough. Make sure that nobody's blocked you in in the driveway. Maybe you park your car a block away so that you know you can leave when you want. Or you drive your own car instead of getting a ride with somebody else so that you can leave when you want. And I just thought that it was helpful to have a number from somebody who's observed across many, many different situations and many different people that three hours seems to be a good limit. Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And you're right.

[Chuck Reed]

Three hours is plenty. Like, of course, some families, like, our families hang out for hours. But Three hours. You feel like you've had some good hangout time?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes, yes, absolutely.

[Chuck Reed]

And now, as part of our Read 25 and 25 inspiration, we have an interview with none other than Judy Blume.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes. She really needs no introduction, but we'll give her one anyway.

[Chuck Reed]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Judy Blume is a prolific American author who has written fiction for children, young adults, and adults. Together, her 29 books have sold more than 92 million copies in 40 languages.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Wow.

[Gretchen Rubin]

She has won numerous awards and honors.

[Chuck Reed]

She's best known for her realistic portrayals of young people. Some of our favorite titles, I think. Elizabeth, Are. Are you there, God? It's me, Margaret. Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing so Funny, Dini. Then again, maybe I won't. It's not the end of the world. I mean, there are so many.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So, so many. And Judy Blume co founded and works at a nonprofit independent bookstore, Books and Books Key west, which opened in 2016.

[Chuck Reed]

Welcome, Judy.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Welcome.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Hi.

[Chuck Reed]

Oh, my gosh.

[Judy Blume]

This is such a thrill.

[Chuck Reed]

You're such an icon. It's amazing.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Not to me.

[Chuck Reed]

Not to you. Not to you.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I'm a regular person.

[Judy Blume]

Yeah.

[Chuck Reed]

Well, because we're doing read 25 and 25 in the year 2025. You are such a representative of reading for many people. You're sort one of the first books that gets them excited about reading, which is such a hugely powerful thing. I'm actually in two children's literature reading groups where we as adults read children's literature and young adult literature. We've read many of your books in these groups. You've also written for adults. You're the perfect person to talk about why reading is something that is going to make us happier in 2025.

[Elizabeth Craft]

It does, I think. You want me to tell you why I think that?

[Chuck Reed]

Oh, sure.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Please save that. Well, I mean, for me, it takes me out of whatever's going on in my life and allows me to be in someone else's life in someone else's story. And especially these days, that is very important to me. I can't listen to the news at night or watch the news before I go to sleep, but I can get into bed with a book. And even if it's, you know, 15, 20, 25 minutes with that book, I'm able to go to sleep because I'm in someone else's story. And I love stories, you know, I guess that's why I'm a writer. I've always made them up and I like to read other people's stories.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, and Judah, you co founded A nonprofit bookstore, Books and Books in Key west, which is definitely on my bucket list.

[Chuck Reed]

I've been there. I've been there.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I've been there.

[Chuck Reed]

Yeah, you weren't there that day, but I've.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Oh, I can't believe that. Gretchen. Yeah, George and I founded it. We're nonprofit. We're a part of an art building there called the Studios of Key West. And you know, I like that because I can say, oh, buy this, oh buy that. And it's not for me.

[Judy Blume]

Right.

[Elizabeth Craft]

It's nonprofit. It's a very, very satisfying second career for me.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And when people come in, if they say to you that they want to read more, what tips do you have, hacks for getting more reading into your day?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, it's hard, I have to say. For a while there, when we started the store, I thought I had less reading time because I was so busy all night. But now I think I'm actually back on track. I think I'm reading more books than maybe I ever read before. I read a lot when my kids were little, before I started to write. I've found that when I was writing a book, I couldn't read another. If I was writing fiction, I couldn't read fiction because I have to stay within the story I was telling. Not everyone is like that. I mean, that's just the way it was for me. So I could read nonfiction during that time. But really I like to stay inside my characters heads and inside the story they were telling me because they tell it to me. So it's hard to find time. I think you have to make time. I once asked a dear friend of mine, very smart woman, how do you read? What do you do? And she said, I make time every afternoon. She was no longer working, she was retired. She said, I make that time every afternoon around 3:00 and I try to do the same thing. It might be 4 o'clock for me. After I get home, just conk out with a book.

[Chuck Reed]

Being in a bookstore, spending so much time in a bookstore, what have you learned about how people read and what draws them to a book? Have you had any insights? Just seeing how people engage when they're in the bookstore.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I'm always surprised.

[Chuck Reed]

Oh, why? Interesting.

[Elizabeth Craft]

You know, I mean, I've had some training now as a bookseller and I mean, I ask certain things if they don't know if they want to be guided to their next favorite book. I do ask them what they like to read and what was the last book that they loved. And then I might suggest something Completely different. I might suggest a book that I just read that not everybody knows about yet. Our manager. We have little staff rec cards hanging on certain books. Our manager writes the best staff recommendations. I don't know if you saw that, Gretchen, when you were in the floor. I always love a style pick, Emily. Emily writes great ones. George can get anybody to read a book because he writes great blurbs like that. I am hopeless at writing blurbs, which I always tell people who ask me for a blurb. I truly am. This is not my superpower. I can't do a good blurb. But every now and then I'll do a staff rec. And I see the difference. I mean, it really, really makes people want that book. And, you know, they'll just fly out of the store. Recently, recently there was a book that was flying out of our store, and I hadn't read it called God of the Woods.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh, I'm listening to it right now.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Okay. So I hadn't read it, and I thought, I need to read this book and see what everybody is so excited about. And honestly, I could not put that book down. It was just. I had to keep going. I had to keep going. So, you know, I can understand why. And even yesterday, we were out of it. And we're a very small store where we get 12 copies at a time. That is a lot of copies for us. And they fly right out.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So there are those books.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And that's word of mouth. That is word of mouth.

[Chuck Reed]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well. And how about you? What do you like to read? What is your personal taste? Are you a cozy mystery person? Fantasy, Sci fi. What are you reading right now?

[Elizabeth Craft]

I can say no to all of the above.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay.

[Chuck Reed]

You like realistic fiction?

[Elizabeth Craft]

I do like realistic fiction, yeah.

[Chuck Reed]

That's what you write. And what you write.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I do. And we have plenty of people in the store who love fantasy. Love sci fi, cozy mysteries. We have someone in town who writes cozy mysteries. So, you know, you don't have to know all the books. You have to know some of the books and really care about some of the books. So fiction is. Is my thing. And yeah, I'm still a realistic fiction girl, just like when I started to write.

[Chuck Reed]

And how do you feel? What's your stance on audiobooks?

[Elizabeth Craft]

I think it's fabulous. I think audiobooks are great. My husband, who is a great reader and listener, always is listening to one and reading one, not, you know, together, but at the same time, he can do that. I could never do that, but put me in a car where I hate to Be for a couple of hours and I'll be listening. And I love it. I mean, it makes the time go so much faster in a car where I don't want to be. But otherwise, I still tend to. I like the book. I like the book in my hands. But audiobooks are fabulous ebooks. I mean, my daughter is a very big reader, and she reads on a tablet because it's easier for her to see. And she can get her books on that tablet through our nonprofit store. So that's good. However, the story comes, and for kids, it's. However, learning to listen helps a child understand a story. I think listening goes along with becoming a reader.

[Chuck Reed]

Oh, interesting.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah. When my grandson was very small, he loved the fudge books.

Of course.

[Chuck Reed]

Right, of course.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And I read them. I cannot stand my own voice, so I never listened to them. But he read them. And my. I mean, listen. He listened to them. And I was reading them, and my daughter said to me, you don't know what it's like to be a grown up with your own home and have to hear your mother's voice all day long. And I said, randy, get him a headset. And she did. And then everything was cool.

Oh, that's.

He's a grown up now.

[Chuck Reed]

Oh, that's very funny. That's very funny. Yeah. Occupational hazard.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Judy, reading about you, I read that even when you're working at home, when you were writing, you would put on an outfit every day. And our mom does that. And I just wanted to ask about that and your thinking on that.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, I'm wearing a bracelet. I always wear a bracelet. And I mean, the outfit is. It's a T shirt and pants, but it's fresh. Take my shower, wash my hair, put on a little lipstick. Yes, I always did that. I always did that. Yeah, because it's going out to work. I mean, for many, many years, I left, I lived in a house in Key West. Now I live in a condo. But for all those years that I lived in the house, I actually left the house, walked a few steps to the guest house where I had my study, where I worked, and it was going out to work.

[Chuck Reed]

That was your commute.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Okay, that was my commute.

[Gretchen Rubin]

That's a good commute. Love it. Now, Judy, you've been writing for your whole life, and you're one of the most widely banned authors in American history, which seems hard to believe.

[Chuck Reed]

Bonkers.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Did that ever make you want to stop writing or change what you wrote? Did it make you more defiant about writing? How did that impact you?

[Elizabeth Craft]

I would say, first of all, I don't mean to correct you, but I would say that the 70s was a very good time for children's books and children's book writers. The big first banning of my lifetime was started in 1980 and went through like it was with the presidential election of 1980. Judith Krug, who then headed up the American Library Association, Freedom to Read, said that the censors came out of the woodwork overnight. Like, it was different then. I mean, it was then. It was, we are going to tell you what kids can read, but it wasn't coming from the government. I mean, it was terrible. It was terrible, you know, to go through that in the 80s. And I. In the beginning, I felt alone and discouraged, even a little bit frightened. What this is because I never wanted to hurt any kids and certainly didn't and don't now, but somebody telling you that your books are dangerous, and what do you do? So I was really lucky, and I found an organization called the National Coalition Against Censorship. Very small organization, just getting going. And they helped me become an activist. And when you learn to speak out, I think it helps you feel better. You're doing something. You're not just sitting at home saying, poor little me, what can I do? You're out there and you're doing something, and. And you're doing it not just for you, but for all the other writers who were being banned. And we used to go around together, I mean, and it was a tough time. And then it was like, okay, libraries now, school libraries especially, have their policies in place. And that was the big thing, to get your policies in place, so that if a parent came in waving a book, demanding its removal, or you knew what to do if you were the librarian. And by the 90s, I don't know. Yeah, there were still some book bannings, but it was, you know, nothing like what's happening today, which is truly, truly frightening because this is coming from government.

[Chuck Reed]

It's great that you're working with others to stand up against it.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah. We're having. I just tell you there's a book out called that Librarian, and it's written by a school librarian, Amanda Jones. She is coming to our bookstore. I'm very excited about this. In a week or so to talk about her experiences. And they're pretty shattering. And you ask, you know, does it discourage you? I think it can discourage you, but when you find out you're not alone and other people can rally around. I think that's what happened with Amanda. You know, she's Become an activist. She's speaking out. She's received death threats and she's been just crucified online on social media. She's been crucified in social media, but she's trying to help other librarians who are facing the same situation.

[Chuck Reed]

Well, that's such important work. Well, on a lighter note, Judy, before we let you go, we always ask our guests, is there something that you would suggest that listeners can do as part of their ordinary day? Something that doesn't take a lot of time, energy or money to make themselves happier? Is there anything you do or want to suggest?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, for me, it's I'm tired at the end of the workday and I'm old and I'm tired and I like to flop on my bed and pick up a book and read and if I fall asleep, great. Have a little nap before dinner. And if I don't, you know, I'm just reading and I'm calming down after a long and difficult day.

[Chuck Reed]

So you slot it in as part of your coming home ritual?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, I really like it. And if I'm working at home and I do have secretary or two who come in and help me at home in the days that I'm not at the store, they know that come 3:30 or 4:00, Judy is toast.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I am so burned out.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I need that. But looking back, I think I always needed that. So, you know, if you can give yourself that, great. I know not everybody can. It's a luxury.

[Chuck Reed]

Well, thank you so much. This has been such a pleasure. Judy Blum, so great to talk to you.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So thank you.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Thank you. Thank you, Gretchen. Thank you, Liz.

[Chuck Reed]

More reading for all.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Coming up, I give myself a reading demerit. But first, this break. So, Gretch, as the weather gets warmer, I think a lot of us want to eat lighter meals and Whole Foods Market has what you're looking for with great everyday prices. I love their365 by Whole Foods Market brand. It's their house brand and it has tons of spring essentials at daily low prices that will really put a little spark to your plate. They have brunch classics like juice, organic bagged salad kits. You know, I love a salad kit, smoked salmon, goat cheese and sandwich bread, plus smoothie ingredients like almond milk and organic frozen fruit blends, which I love to use for jack smoothies.

[Elizabeth Craft]

At Whole Foods Market you can save every day. Look for the yellow low price signs that help you save money without compromising the quality you expect from Whole Foods Market. Find them with their responsibly farmed Atlantic salmon, no antibiotics ever, ground beef and boneless, skinless chicken breasts, plus more throughout the store. Yellow really means savings at Whole Foods Market because their sale signs are also yellow. So basically, wherever you see yellow, you know you're saving money. Save on the best of spring with great everyday prices at Whole Foods Market.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Let's talk about a small thing that can make a big difference if you have diabetes. The Freestyle Libre 3 sensor. It's amazing how the sensor gives you real time glucose readings so you can see the impact of every meal and activity. To make better choices.

[Judy Blume]

The Freestyle Libre 3 sensor can help you live life with diabetes on your terms. This is progress. You can try it for free at FreestyleLibre US. Offer available for people who qualify. Visit MyFreestyle US to see all terms and conditions. Certain exclusions apply for prescription only safety info found at Freestyle Libre Us.

[Chuck Reed]

Okay, Elizabeth, it's time for demerits and gold stars. And this is an even numbered episode, which means it's your turn to talk about a demerit.

[Gretchen Rubin]

All right, Gretch. Well, Speaking of read 25 and 25, I have on my list of 25 things I wanna do in 2025. Reading an actual paper book every month. We were just talking about audiobooks, but I wanna get back in the habit of doing some actual reading, and I haven't done it yet. I mean, I'm reading War and Peace every day, but I haven't read an actual book, full book yet. And now we're into March, so I'm two books behind, so I've gotta get cracking on that.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Mm.

[Chuck Reed]

Well, what is it that you feel like you wanna get from the paper book that's different from what you get from reading an audiobook?

[Gretchen Rubin]

You know, I just don't wanna lose my stamina for reading in that way. And I find the less I read an actual book, the shorter my reading stamina is. So I kind of want to work the muscle.

[Chuck Reed]

And is it because when you're listening, you can be kind of active, like you're walking around and so when you're reading a book, you get a little bit restless?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Exactly. When I'm reading a book, I might put it down, check my phone, et cetera. Whereas I used to sit and read for three hours, no problem. Wouldn't even think twice about it. Now it's hard to read for 15 minutes without some sort of break. So I want to build back up.

[Chuck Reed]

You read a lot, so the next time you read something where you're like, oh, my Gosh, I'm really turning the pages. Or like, it's an audiobook, but you're finding it super compelling. Switch to paper, because maybe you could get your stamina back up by reading something that's really holding your attention. Because I think there are books that we enjoy and we're really glad that we read, but they're not like you're racing home to get back to your book. And then there are some where you're like, oh, my gosh, I'm just dying to finish it. So maybe with those kinds of books where you really feel that and then you'll really stay engaged. Cause it's the kind of book where you're not thinking like, oh, well, maybe I should get up and fix myself.

[Gretchen Rubin]

A snack or whatever. Yeah, that's probably a good idea. So hopefully, now that I've said it, I'll do it and I can report back. All right, Gretchen, what is your gold star this week?

[Chuck Reed]

Well, I want to give a gold star to Jenna Bush Hagar for mentioning my one sentence journal. I had no idea that I was going to get a spotlight on that. It's something that came out a long time ago, and so to see it somehow emerge into the public sphere was amazing. I was so happy to see that. It was very sweet because many listeners and readers took screenshots and sent them to me. I mean, at first I was like, when is this from? But it was recently. So that was exciting because one of the things as an author who has something in the past and Elizabeth, maybe you feel this way about your TV shows, it's very exciting when somebody's engaging with it in the present because you're like, yes, I love it just as much as when I did it. And now it's getting that spotlight. So I want to give her a gold star because I really appreciated that.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes, there was this nice, beautiful big stack of your stretch, and I saw it. It was a fun surprise.

[Chuck Reed]

I don't know if I have a good enough image of it, but if I do, I'll put it in the show notes. Now, the resource for this week, I just want to remind everybody of the tour. It's coming your way. I really want to see people there. And I'm going to a lot of cities that I've never visited before for a book tour and some cities that I've never been to before in my whole life. So I'm so excited. I always love going to a city for the first time. And again, those cities are Washington, D.C. boston, Kansas City, Missouri, of course. Lexington, Kentucky. Bloomington, Indiana. Tulsa, Oklahoma. San Diego, California. Corta Madeira, California. Los Angeles, California. Wake Forest, Washington. Coral Gables, Florida. Miami, Florida. Tampa, Florida. New York City. It's interesting that I'm ending up in New York City. And that's [e-mail] secrets. And so I really, I'm really looking forward to it. I like meeting with people. It's really fun. Oh, yeah, Elizabeth, we've talked a lot about reading today. What are you reading right now?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, as I mentioned before, I'm reading the God of the woods by Liz Moore.

[Chuck Reed]

And I am reading Stone Yard Devotional by Charlotte Wood. And that's it for this episode of Happier. Remember to try this at home. Stash that thing in the messy closet. Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Thank you to the legendary Judy Blume. Such an extraordinary experience to get to talk to her.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Oh, yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Thank you to Chuck Reed and everyone at Lemonade.

[Chuck Reed]

Well, you know, we were talking about word of mouth for books, but word of mouth works for podcasts as well. So rate us, review us, follow us, and if you like the show, tell others.

[Gretchen Rubin]

You know, until next week. I'm Elizabeth Craft.

[Chuck Reed]

And I'm Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Gretch. If you'd said 10 years ago when we started the podcast that it would lead to us getting to meet Judy Bloom, we would have done it. Just for that.

[Chuck Reed]

Just for that, Exactly. I know.

[Judy Blume]

From the Onward project.