Ep. 529: Cutting Back on Cussing, Easier Traveling & Do Possessions Have Feelings?

Summary

Happier with Gretchen Rubin: Episode 529 Summary

Release Date: April 9, 2025
Title: Cutting Back on Cussing, Easier Traveling & Do Possessions Have Feelings?
Host: Gretchen Rubin
Cohost: Elizabeth Craft

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Introduction

In Episode 529 of "Happier with Gretchen Rubin," Gretchen Rubin and her cohost, Elizabeth Craft, delve into three intriguing topics: the decision to cut back on cussing, the complexities of our relationships with possessions, and strategies to make traveling easier. This episode blends personal anecdotes with psychological insights, offering listeners practical advice and thought-provoking discussions.

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Cutting Back on Cussing

Gretchen Rubin initiates the conversation by addressing her personal goal to reduce cussing. She explains that while swearing has its benefits—such as reducing pain sensitivity and bolstering social bonds—she believes that excessive cursing can coarsen conversations and escalate conflicts.

Notable Insights:

• Benefits of Swearing:

  • *"Swearing has been linked to reducing sensitivity to pain by increasing pain tolerance and decreasing perceived pain" (04:10).
  • *"Swearing can bolster social bonds, making people feel more connected" (04:10).

• Social and Psychological Impacts:

  • *"Our feelings follow our actions. Often we think that we act because of the way we feel, but to a very great extent, we feel because of the way we act" (09:03).
  • Gretchen emphasizes the importance of respectful language to foster mutual respect and enhance relationships.

Personal Strategies:

• Mindful Cursing:
  Gretchen plans to reserve cussing for moments of extreme distress or use it strategically during conversations to signal authenticity without escalating tensions.

• Alternative Expressions:
  She mentions substituting harsher swear words with softer alternatives like "dang" to maintain expressiveness without the negative connotations.

Elizabeth Craft's Perspective: Elizabeth shares her experiences, noting that mindful cussing can signal relatability and authenticity, especially in professional settings like Hollywood. She recounts how her sister, Sarah, effectively uses a "no buy" list to curb overbuying, illustrating how setting intentional boundaries can lead to personal growth.

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Relationships with Possessions

The discussion transitions to uncovering how individuals relate to their possessions, contrasting practical and mystical viewpoints.

Practical vs. Mystical Views:

• Practical View:
  Individuals see possessions as inanimate objects meant for sorting and storing, often willing to part with items they haven't used in a year.

• Mystical View:
  Some, like Elizabeth, imbue possessions with emotions and memories, believing that objects have their own "spirits." This perspective makes it challenging to part with certain items, as they symbolize cherished memories or relationships.

Notable Quotes:

• Gretchen: "Do you take a practical view of your possessions, or do you have a more mystical view of your possessions?" (16:16)
• Elizabeth: "I feel that things are associated with people. [...] I might not want to get rid of it because it makes me think of her." (18:48)

Personal Anecdotes:

• Gretchen shares stories of her family members holding onto items like a mixing bowl from childhood or a sentimental mug, highlighting the emotional weight objects can carry.
• Elizabeth discusses her attachment to a childhood blankie and clothing gifted by her mother, underscoring how possessions can represent personal history and relationships.

Strategies for Managing Sentimental Possessions:

• Photographing Items:
  Taking pictures of sentimental items can allow individuals to let go physically while preserving the memory.

• Selective Keeping:
  Keeping one representative item instead of multiple similar objects can help reduce clutter without sacrificing sentimental value.

• Open Conversations:
  Discussing the emotional significance of possessions can facilitate understanding and acceptance when parting with items.

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Listener Question: Maintaining Family Relationships

The episode features a listener question from Blake, who is struggling with establishing a close relationship with her son-in-law post-marriage. Despite initial closeness, Blake and her husband now face distance as the newlyweds perceive family dinners as unwanted obligations.

Analysis Using the Four Tendencies Framework:

• Rebel Tendency:
  Gretchen and Elizabeth identify the son-in-law as potentially having a Rebel tendency. Rebels resist external expectations and prefer spontaneity over scheduled activities.

Suggested Approaches:

• Spontaneous Invitations:
  Instead of setting fixed dates, invite the son-in-law and his wife to join impromptu activities, giving them the freedom to choose without feeling obligated.

• Flexible Planning:
  Offer open-ended invitations, such as being available on Saturdays or weekends without strict schedules, to accommodate their preference for spontaneity.

• Understanding Underlying Factors:
  Consider other possible reasons for the distance, such as lifestyle differences or personal circumstances, and address them empathetically.

Applicable Quotes:

• Gretchen: "Well, Gretchen, it makes me think of how Sarah and I recommend cursing in a meeting in Hollywood." (05:23)
• Elizabeth: "Blake. We've always been very close to our daughter..." (28:34)

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Happiness Hack: Streamlining Travel Planning

Gretchen and Elizabeth introduce a happiness hack focused on making traveling easier by reducing decision fatigue. Using a listener's story, Elizabeth explains how documenting available amenities along a frequently traveled route can simplify travel decisions.

Key Points:

• Planning Ahead:
  Using notes apps to list gas stations, coffee shops, and other stops can expedite decision-making during trips.

• Reducing Stress:
  Having predefined options minimizes the mental effort required to decide on-the-go, making the journey more enjoyable.

Example:

• Elizabeth describes how documenting exit information for their daughter’s college trips has made their drives more efficient and less stressful.

Gretchen's Insight:

• "If you take a few minutes and set it all out, then when you have to make a decision you have the facts right at the ready and you can just quickly make a good decision" (14:33).

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Demerits and Gold Stars

Happiness Demerit: Forgetting Enjoyed Activities Gretchen shares her frustration with how easily one can forget activities they once loved, exemplified by her neglect of the "Met Scavenger Hunt" game she used to enjoy at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

Key Takeaway:

• Regularly revisiting enjoyable activities can prevent them from fading into the background and enhance overall happiness.

Gold Star: Elizabeth awards a gold star to her writing partner, Sarah, for successfully adhering to a "no buy" list—resisting the urge to purchase items across 25 categories for a year. This disciplined approach aims to curb overbuying and foster mindful consumption.

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Conclusion and Resources

Gretchen Rubin wraps up the episode by encouraging listeners to implement the discussed strategies, such as cutting back on cussing and managing their relationships with possessions mindfully. She also highlights her free weekly newsletter, "Five Things Making Me Happy," as a resource for those seeking continual happiness inspiration.

Current Readings:

• Gretchen Rubin: How It Feels When a Parent Dies by Jill Kremlins
• Elizabeth Craft: Ready for Absolutely Nothing by Susanna Constantine

Listeners are invited to share their experiences and thoughts on the episode's topics via social media or email, fostering a community of shared growth and happiness.

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For more insights and practical advice on living a happier life, subscribe to "Happier with Gretchen Rubin" and join the conversation.

Transcript

[Gretchen Rubin]

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[Elizabeth Craft]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

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[Elizabeth Craft]

Lemonada.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast where we talk about strategies and suggestions for making our lives happier. This week we'll talk about cutting back on cussing and our relationships with possessions. I have to say, our relationships with possessions is something that has fascinated me ever since law school. I'm Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits, secrets of adulthood. Usually I'm in my little home office in New York City, but today I'm actually in Los Angeles in the home of my sister, Elizabeth Craft. My sister, the stage.

[Elizabeth Craft]

That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer living in la. And yes, Gretch, I'm going to your event tonight. If anybody wants to join us, they should look up your events and come see you.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Absolutely. I am going to California, Washington, Florida, New York. I'm going all over the place. Go to happiercast.com tour and you can get all the information you need. I love to see people in real life. I love to see them in the Met, I love to see them in Central Park. I like to see them in the drugstore. And I especially like to see people on book tour. So I hope that I will get to meet a lot of listeners there.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So this week our try this at home tip is something. And I have to say, Elizabeth, this is something that has really come up in my life. This is something that I have been wanting to try at home myself, which is to cut back on my cussing.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So this is interesting, Gretch. People have asked us before, does Gretchen ever cuss?

[Gretchen Rubin]

I would say on the scale of 1 to 10, I'm like a 3 or 4. What do you think? Depending.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I would say a 4 to 5 probably.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, I don't cuss that much, but I do cuss and I don't cuss at the extreme of language. I would say. Right, you're not going to get into any of the details here. Whatever. Okay. But here's the interesting thing. There is research showing that there is benefits to cussing. So first of all, in one research, the study linked swearing to reduce sensitivity to pain. So these were people who were asked to hold their hands in ice water for as long as possible. And if they were repeating a swear word, they had increased pain tolerance and also decreased perceived pain. So that's clearly something good. Also, swearing has been linked to bolstered social bonds. People feel more connected to each other when they are using bad language. It's been even connected to the alleviation of social pain from exclusion. That kind of makes sense because social pain, emotional pain, is the same as physical pain in the mind. And so it makes sense that if it would help with one thing, it would help with another. And here's something that's surprising is it's also been linked to an increase in strength. And the theory is that because swearing when you're in pain is often associated with an increased heart rate. It's kind of like what happens to you when you're in a fight or flight response and your body releases a surge of adrenaline and your body is ready for not fight or flight. That maybe that's also helping you show more strength facing a physical task. And then also it's we're kind of disinhibited when we're using language that maybe we wouldn't normally use. And when we're in that disinhibited state, the theory is that we push ourselves farther so we'll hold our hands in the ice cold water longer or we'll use the hand gripper with more force. So that's interesting. So there are these bonds and I do think that there is this sense in which if you curse mindfully, it can help you feel closer to other people.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, Gretchen, it makes me think of how Sarah and I recommend cursing in a meeting in Hollywood. That was one of our first segments on Happier in Hollywood. We talked about that and I recently talked about it in our newsletter that I still think it's a good idea to curse in a meeting for us especially being women. But I apply this to Men as well. I think it's good to signal that you can hang, quote, unquote.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Because, you know, a lot of our job is just sitting around and talking to people, so people want to know that you can hang. Now, obviously, if you're meeting with someone who's known to be more reserved and formal, this would not be the case. But I've never been in a meeting with somebody where I didn't think that it would be okay to curse.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So we do make a point of it, or we did, especially earlier in our career.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, I think that there is this sense that there is an increased formality and reserve when you're not using swear words. And so maybe the reverse. Is that, okay, if I'm saying these curse words with you, I feel closer to you. I'm letting it all hang out, showing authenticity.

[Elizabeth Craft]

The buzzword of the day is authenticity. And I think swearing is definitely associated with authenticity.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. Okay. So here's what I'm wanting to do for myself. Again, I have decided to cut back on cursing. I'm not saying that I'm going to quit cussing altogether, but I only want to use it in moments of extreme distress, when I'm, like, really feel like I need to let something fly, or when I mindfully do it as part of a conversation where I'm really choosing my moment. When you do it in a meeting, you're doing that mindfully. That is a strategic gesture. You're not doing thinking like, oh, I'm going to shock somebody, or I'm going to fight, flash out and show somebody how outraged I am. This is you signaling something, so it's a mindful choice, and I think that's okay. And so I want to preserve it in that way. But I do feel like I don't generally like cursing. I think it coarsens conversation. Generally. I think it can raise the temperature in exchanges that would be better done in a calm and open way. And I've noticed in my own life that I perceived a dramatic increase in the amount of swearing that people are using in places that surprise me and make me feel dismayed. And I wish that they would not curse in that way. But because I cannot control what other people are doing, I'm like, okay, well, what I can do is I can work on myself and I can curse less, because if I don't like it in other people, let me just stop putting that out into the world.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, Gretch, you're inspiring me. I think I might join you in this partially just. Cause anytime you're trying to do anything. It's just kind of interesting and stimulating.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, that's true.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So more even just as a brain exercise, I think I'm gonna try this with you. So how do you go about not cursing as much?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, partly I'm just gonna, like, pull back on the actual words. Like, I like the word dang, so I just, like, use dang instead of other words that I could use and then pay attention to when I am cursing. It's sort of a brain exercise to be mindful and to be paying attention. And here's one thing I've noticed. When Eliza and Eleanor were little, even in, like, in high school and whatever, I didn't cuss in front of them. And certainly our parents did not cuss in front of us. And I like that. I like that. That atmosphere. But now that they're older, I have let it creep in a little bit more. And I think part of it is this authenticity, or it's sort of like, oh, now that you're bigger, I can let these words fly a little bit more. But when I step back, I'm like, I don't like that. I would rather be the kind of mother who does not use that language just because I feel like it's more gentle and more. It's the family atmosphere that I would prefer to have. And so I'm going to cut back on it. And also, what it shows me is, when they were little, if I could decide, oh, I'm not going to curse in front of them, or I could have that habit, it shows me that I really can control it. It's not like, oh, well, I'm so used to saying these things, I can't even stop myself. Well, clearly I can, because in the past, I very clearly had, like, an on switch and an off switch, and I didn't do it. Yes, I can control it.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. We all know that. You know, if we're talking to, like, a priest, we're likely not going to be cussing up a storm. So we all have that ability.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, It's a principle of psychology that our feelings follow our actions. Often we think that we act because of the way we feel, but to a very great extent, we feel because of the way that we act. And I really think it's important for people to be respectful toward each other. I like it when people speak in a respectful way. And if we speak more respectfully, we will feel more respectful of other people. And I want to show respect. I want to feel respect. Let's just all have Respect. And I feel like that's one way to get that form of exchange among people is to speak in that language.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah, no, I'm following along with you on this, Gretchen. I have to tell you, though, a story, which is that at the dentist, I swore quite heartily in pain. No, I was unhappy with the result of a procedure and it still haunts me. I still occasionally pops in my brain. I can't believe I said that at the dentist. That was so inappropriate. I still feel bad about it because it just felt disrespectful to the people at the dentist.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. The more often you do it, the harder it is to stop it too. That is the thing. Like, if it's occasional, it's probably easier. People sometimes say like, okay, we're gonna get together for some cussing and discussing. But it is tricky because I think that sometimes the cussing makes the discussin harder. When there's conflict, it just raises the temperature of it in some way. Or it can't. This has just occurred to me recently and I'm going to experiment with it. I was kind of surprised that there's all this research pro cursing. So, anyway, let's experiment a little bit. Let's see how we think. And yeah, and I'm curious to hear from listeners. What do you think about it? How do you think about it in your own life? Let us know. This is sort of a work in progress. Let us know on Instagram, threads, TikTok, Facebook. Drop us an [e-mail] or go to happiercast.com 529 for everything related to this episode.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Coming up, we've got a happiness hack related to emptiness, open door phase of life. But first, this break on this podcast. We are all about how you can make your life happier, but you can't pursue your happiest life if you're struggling with your relationship with food or your body. I know so many people who have had this struggle and it is so tough. Eating disorders are serious mental illnesses and they can affect people of any age, gender or body size. They have serious negative impact on physical and mental health and make it pretty impossible to be, well, happy. Eating disorders can show up in a lot of different ways. It might look like restrictive eating, compulsive exercise, or feeling out of control when you eat.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Each patient is matched with a multidisciplinary care team and gets a personalized treatment plan that helps them beat the eating disorder. Equip treats patients of all ages and all eating disorder diagnoses. It's covered by insurance and there's no wait list. If you think that you or a loved one could be struggling with an eating disorder, don't wait to get helped. Visit Equip Health Happier to learn more. That's Equip Health Happier Sleep Better with Cozy Earth Elizabeth, you and I talk all the time about the value and importance of getting a good night's sleep. If we want to be happier, healthier, more productive, more creative, we need to get a good night's sleep. It's essential.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, and essential to a good night's sleep is sheets. Gretchen, I love Cozy Earth's bamboo sheet set. It's so soft, it's so cool and breathable. It just makes me feel so good when I slide into bed at night. Cozy Earth also has amazing pajamas. They're lightweight yet cozy and they will help you fall asleep faster and stay asleep longer so you wake up feeling your best. Make sleep a priority. Now visit cozyearth.com and use our exclusive code HAPPIER for up to 40% off. Cozier Best selling sheets, towels, pajamas and more. That's cozyearth.com code happier and if you get a post purchase survey, tell them you heard about Cozy Earth right here.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And now it's time for a Happiness hack. Elizabeth, you know I am thinking a lot about the open door phase of life, which is how I am rebranding the emptiness phase of life. I'm thinking about this book that I'm gonna write about it, which I'm so fascinated by this subject and we got a really helpful hack related to the stage of life. But really, I mean you could use it all different kinds of situations.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, this comes from June. She says the trip to our daughter's college in Ohio takes five hours and routes us through or around two cities. The interstate options we choose vary according to traffic patterns. Because we will make this rather complex drive frequently, I decided to use my notes app to document what is available at exits along the various routes, cheap gas, Starbucks, Target Drive Thru, food options, and more. On our most recent trip, I added in information about how many gallons of gas we need to get from her college to our favorite stopping spot. This document has made our travel decisions so much easier. What a good idea.

[Gretchen Rubin]

What a good idea. And you know we talk a lot about decision fatigue and how making decisions is very exhausting and this is the kind of thing where if you take a few minutes and set it all out, then when you have to make a decision you have the facts right at the ready and you can just quickly make a Good decision that takes into account whatever you need to, rather than in your mind forcing yourself to kind of retrace this step or have this long conversation, which way should we go? And then you're sort of discussing it or. What I would often do is try to make Jamie decide, because I don't like doing that kind of decision making. Like, maybe he doesn't want to make that decision. But this way, it's like, oh, we could do these three errands along the way. Let's go this way. It makes good sense. It just feels like a much less stressful and arduous way to make that decision.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah. And for sure with food. Gretchen. For instance, in California, many of us would like to stop at in n out over anything else. And knowing which stops have the in n out can be very useful. Cause there's nothing worse than just stopping somewhere, getting something to eat that nobody really wants. And then you get back on the road and you see the in n out whatever you want. And it's like, darn, I wish we'd gone forward one more exit. So that's useful.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. And you're not cursing when that happens. You're just saying in a gentle way, darn it, I wish we had. Yeah, well, you know, I love secrets of adulthood, but I also love of proverbs. One of the most famous proverbs is a stitch in time saves nine, meaning if you make a little bit of an investment with time, you can save yourself a lot of energy later. And this is a perfect example where, yeah, it is a little bit of work to set this up in advance, but then you just have all this information at your fingertips in a very easy way. So I think that's a really good suggestion.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. Thank you, June.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And now for a know yourself better question. Okay. I think this is absolutely fascinating. So I have been preoccupied with the question of how people are related, how they relate to possessions, ever since law school. I wrote this strange paper in law school, later actually turned into a book that I did with this artist, Dana Hawey, called Profane Waste, which is all about people's relationships with possessions. This is a strange little book that nobody ever knows that I wrote. But it was amazing, and I love it. And I'm still haunted by the question of people's relationships to possessions. And it's probably part of why I wanted to write Outer Order Inner calm. That's like a more practical way that we relate to our possessions. So here's my question. Here's the know yourself better question. Do you Take a practical view of your possessions, or do you have a more mystical view of your possessions? Because some people have a very practical, straightforward relationship to their possessions. They see them as just inanimate objects to be sorted and stored. They can say things like, well, if I haven't used it in a year, I'm going to give it away. They often like to get rid of things. You know, they'll donate something if they don't use it. But then, in my observation, some people have a much more mystical view. They may feel their possessions have little spirits of their own. Maybe their socks feel uncomfortable crammed into the drawer. I remember as a child I had these pillows on my bed, and I felt like, well, then some of the pillows kind of got their little feelings hurt if they didn't get a chance to be displayed properly. You know, it's not like you rationally believe that, but that there is this sense that things have a spirit of their own. And Elizabeth, what do you think? Where do you stand on this?

[Elizabeth Craft]

I am definitely the mystical view person. I have always been like that. I have the thing of feeling like objects get their feelings hurt if they're not used. Maybe part of this is cause I have my blankie, my childhood blankie that I still sleep with, that I'm extremely attached to. So that right there has sort of a mystical element. I feel that things also are associated with people. So let's say mom gave me a sweater 20 years ago. I might not want to get rid of it because it makes me think of her. All of those things I definitely ascribe to.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So here are two things I can just think of off the top of my head. You have a pair of shoes that you never wore, but Adam bought them for you when you first started dating. And you were like, well, of course I could never get rid of those shoes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And then I remember we were cleaning at your office, and there was a mug sitting on the shelf. And I said, oh, well, if this isn't part of your mug collection, should we get rid of it? And it was a mug somehow associated with your friend Mike, who died very sadly. And I remember your shock at my suggestion that we would just get rid of the mug was far more than like, oh, this is a valuable object. It was more like, maybe you should give away nacho and Daisy. It was like, this thing is. So you were like, deeply just flabbergasted that I could suggest something that was so obviously wrong. And I was like, whoa, I didn't understand. This mug is really, really Significant, Yes. So I think I have that to some extent, but not to the extent that you feel it. And clutter clearing is a way. Like I'm giving these examples that came up when I was trying to help you clear your clutter. Now, part of it is you have your mystical relationship with. With your possessions, which I don't have access to, but I might feel that way about my own things, which you wouldn't know. So that's part of it. But I do think that sometimes when it comes to clutter clearing, a lot of the experts will say things like, you'll be happier with less and just get rid of it all. And you don't need these things. But you really do have to acknowledge for yourself or for other people, if they feel it, that some people do have this very, very deep connection to their possessions, and it's very meaningful and significant. And you can't just. Just hand wave it. You can't just tell people to ignore it, because, first of all, they probably won't. And so it's not going to be successful. And then it's just going to be very frustrating because it's an important element of how we feel about the things that are in our spaces.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah, it's hard, Gretch, because I do have so many things that shouldn't even have meaning. Like the mug you mentioned. Yes. That is special. Has special meaning. I'll keep it forever. But a random T shirt, other pairs of shoes, books. So many things I have that I do attach meaning to that I probably don't need to. It's like I wish I could up. I guess the barrier to meaning. The bar needs to be higher for what I imbue with meaning.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, here's. Because I do feel this way myself, here's a few things that I have found. One is you can take a picture of it sometimes. Eliza and Eleanor had this really sweet little wooden crib that they played with, and so I took a picture of it. So we gave away the crib, but we have a picture of it. And I like to look at the picture. Their clothes. We didn't keep all their clothes, but I have pictures of all their signature outfits. A few of the outfits I kept, but I took pictures. And then sometimes you can have, like, a representative thing where one stands for the many and can hold all of that weight. And I think of a time where years and years ago, a friend of mine who's a huge pack rat, had me come over to help her clear her clutter, which, of course, is my favorite thing to do. And she had this huge walk in closet. But a big part of the space of it was the extremely formal, almost ball gowns, things that you would wear to the most formal kind of occasion. And I said, wait, do you wear these? And she said, no, I don't wear them anymore. And I was like, well, maybe you want to donate them. And then she was very emotional, no, I want to keep them. I want to keep them. And then when I asked her more about it, it turned out okay. So she'd had a boyfriend when she lived in Washington, D.C. and together they would go to these extremely formal events they have in Washington. And then he died very sadly of cancer. And so to her, they were really precious because they held all these memories. And so I said to her, well, could you maybe keep one that was the most special one? And then you have the pictures of the other ones. But they're important to you because they hold your memory of your time with him. But you don't really need all of them to do that. You really only need one to do that because they sort of all have the same meaning. And they were just taking up all this room, and she was never gonna wear them again. You know, they kind of were out of fashion, whatever this was years later. So I think part of it was that part of it was realizing that she did have photographs. Cause they had photographs of when they went to these parties and stuff. But I think also it was just talking through it. I think she hadn't even really realized that that's why she couldn't let them go. And just saying they are really meaningful. And that really was a beautiful moment. And it is very painful to think about this time in the past and just acknowledging that's what was making these things hard to let go of, actually then counterintuitively allowed her to let go of them. And so she kept one and she gave away the others. If I remember, she told me that in the end she gave away that one, too, because she had, like, a really great photograph of the two of them together. And she felt that's what she needed. You know, maybe we're all kind of a mix. Some things you might be very clothes focused.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Or maybe it's, for instance, for me, Gretchen, I don't have this with kitchen items. I don't have a feeling like, oh, this hand mixer is something I must keep forever because I made pancakes with it when Jack was a toddler.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay. But Alyssa, if you want to know one that I have, okay, our parents kitchen, the brown mixing bowl, the plastic brown mixing bowl. And I asked them, when did you get this? And they got. There was a huge flood in Kansas City. I mean, decades ago. And because of that, all of this inventory got flooded. So there was this huge fire sale because everything had been sort of ruined, so you had to just pick through it. And so this store halls had all this stuff for sale, and our parents could remember that they bought it. This was decades and decades ago. That is the one kitchen item that for some reason, I have locked into that thing as, like, that is the thing from our kitchen from our childhood that I care about. It is the most nondescript thing I know. But you know exactly what I'm talking about. We use it constantly.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. We use it all the time when we're in Kansas City, and I do love that mixing bowl.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But here, don't you think that this comes up the most with things that belong to children?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Oh, yes. Yes. Anything your child had is hard to get rid of, for sure.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. It just feels like it's imbued with their spirit. And I think because they're growing, it feels tied to a moment of their childhood. You feel like, I'm gonna hold onto this memory into this stage of this child that moved on from playing with the play kitchen or playing with the train set. Yeah, the train set. Right. Or like, oh, all the Legos. I remember deciding, okay, I'm just gonna donate all these Legos because they just weren't being played with anymore. But it was hard to do. Harder than you would think.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah. So I'm curious to hear from listeners who don't have any of this mystical view toward objects. I'd love to hear from people who just think, a thing is a thing is a thing.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And what that's like.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes, I know. And I bet that they get very frustrated and puzzled with people who are, like, holding up a piece of chalk and being like, this piece of chalk is so precious to me. It's an interesting. Know yourself better. And it's a way to communicate more clearly with other people. Because if you're feeling frustrated, it might be, okay, well, this possession has a significance, maybe, that you do not recognize.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Okay, Gretch. Coming up, we've got a listener question related to family relationships. But first, this break. Gretchen, we always, on this podcast talk about the importance of getting good sleep. And part of good sleep is a great pillow. There are side sleepers, back sleepers, even starfishes. I'm a side sleeper, and it really matters how your pillow fits with your head. Whatever position you're in. Gretchen I got a pillow from Coop Sleep Goods that is so perfect for me. I went from using like two pillows together that were not quite right to using my one coupe pillow which is perfect. And it's for cool sleepers so I don't wake up all sweaty in the middle of the night. I love it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And also with Coop Sleep goods you get 100 night free trial. 86% of sleepers reported better sleep after switching their pillows to Coop. There are more than 100,000 five star reviews and over a million happy sleepers. Visit coopsleepgoods.com happier to get 20% off your first order. That's C-O-O-P sleepgoods.com happier at Great Wolf.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Lodge you can take your whole family on an unforgettable adventure. It's a world of fun all under one roof. I happen to love water slides and there are so many water slides and other amazing water attractions at Great Wolf Lodge. And no two Great Wolf Lodges are alike. So one might have a lazy river, one will have a wave pool. And they all have so many family friendly attractions. They also have free daily events and activities from family friendly yoga in the mornings all the way through to nightly family dance parties. There's so much to see and do. You're going to want to stay for more than a day. And they have themed suites. Those rooms have got special bunk bed sleeping areas just for the kids so you can relax and unwind after a long day of splashing and playing.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And best of all, it's just a short drive away. So bring your pack together and wolf out. Learn [e-mail] greatwolf.com book now and strengthen your pack at Great Wolf Lodge. And now for a listener question. One of the most common questions that we face in life is the perplexities of relationships. That's one of the sections of my book, Secrets of Adulthood, which is all about confronting the perplexities of relationships. Because relationships can be perplexing. And here is someone who is facing a perplexing dilemma.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, Gretch, this question comes from Blake. We've always been very close to our daughter. When she got engaged, we also became very close to the young man who was going to be our son in law. Now that they're married, however, there's a distance. It's really puzzling. She herself suggested that we have family dinner twice a month. But after we did it a few times, she said her husband felt that it was an un unwanted obligation and they didn't want to continue. My husband and I suggest ideas for fun plans, such as going out to dinner or going to a movie, making it clear that we intend to pay and they don't want to do it. I know they are creating their own household, but I want us to create a close family relationship. They do spend time with his family.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, you know what? This is setting off a flag for me. Can you guess what it is?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Tendency related, perhaps?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Of course. To me, I always jump to the tendencies. To me, this sounds like a rebel, right? Unwanted obligation, not wanting to schedule things. Right. Even like, we make ideas for fun plans, like going to a movie. This comes up a lot of the time with people around rebels is they say, why doesn't this person care for me? Why doesn't this person make plans with me? Why doesn't this person commit to a schedule with me? Why does this person always back out? And the thing is, rebels don't like having things on the schedule. It makes them feel trapped. They feel controlled. They do not like it. So it might be that, like, he has the idea, like, I would like to see them twice a month. But then when it really comes to it, it's every other Sunday, and this is when it is, and we want to make a plan in three weeks to go see this movie, that there's a feeling of resistance, and then it just kind of an unwanted obligation. Even that phrase that sounds like she's repeating something that her husband said, I'm just guessing. And the fact is, they seem to have had a harmonious relationship before. And so I'm thinking maybe it has nothing to do with the relationships among the actual people. It's about this scheduling thing.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay. Also, Blake says that they do spend time with his family. That's a clue. Right. And so instead of being like, well, he likes his family more than he likes our family, which you might assume is saying, what is it about the neighborhood? And does that have a clue for us? I don't know, because we don't know where everybody lives and everything. But maybe it's a situation where, oh, we can just drop by. We'll just call that morning and say, hey, want to grab brunch? Or, oh, we'll just stop by this afternoon. So there's that feeling of spontaneity and choice. Or like, hey, just come by sometime this weekend when it works for you. That resonates more with a rebel and with your own family, maybe it's easier to do that. And maybe you feel just like you can do stuff like that more with your own family that you were raised with, maybe then with your new in laws. But I would just say look at the patterns and see if there is this thing about scheduling. And could you set it up in a way like, hey, we're gonna be around on Saturday, if you guys wanna drop by, that'd be great. We'll just hang out.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Or maybe just that morning. I mean, maybe it's not even that, Gretch, but maybe even more spontaneous. And I had one other thought, which is, Cause if you go, well, why were they able to hang out with him before they were married? It might have been he had this. Of wanting to be a good fiance or, you know, wanting to prove, oh, hey, I'm, you know, legitimate here. And so that overrode.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

The not wanting to make plans, but now that they're actually married and his position is solidified, that has gone away.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, I think that that's great. And then you can also do things with the movie instead of planning it. You can just be like, hey, we decided we're gonna go see this movie tonight if you guys want to meet us there. That'd be so fun. And then it's like, like it is your choice. It's what you feel like. You don't have to commit. Come if you want. We're going anyway. So it's always this feeling of freedom and choice. And you're exactly right. A feeling of identity, like I am a worthy son in law. Because those dynamics are constantly changing. Another thing. Okay, and just to put the tendencies aside, another thing. We don't know anything about these facts to suggest this, but I do think sometimes this can be a factor as well. Is there something that maybe you are discounting that might be significant to someone else? And I think about this, Elizabeth, you're extremely allergic to cats. I'm very allergic to cats. Not nearly as much as you, but sometimes people will be just like, oh, that's not really a big deal. And you're like, well, actually it is kind of a big deal because it's incredibly uncomfortable for me to be in your house. Or like, maybe you've got a dog and somebody doesn't like your dog. Or it's really inconvenient to get to your place during certain hours of the day. I think it's very easy to jump to what is the meaning of this and what does this mean about a relationship where sometimes it's these other elements to it. So I would look and see what are the patterns, what's different about his relationship with his family than your family. And maybe this is totally off base because maybe I just see the tendencies everywhere. And so I see the word unwanted obligation. I'm like, whoa, that sounded rebel to me. And it's something else. And so, listeners, if you have other thoughts about what might be going on or other suggestions for this listener, send them in. But I just have to say, to me, it does sound kind of rebel.

[Elizabeth Craft]

As always, Gretchen, it's a good reminder that knowing about the tendencies can help us solve problems.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And if people have no idea what we're talking about, go to gretchenrubin.com quiz Take the Four Tendencies quiz. Find out if you're an upholder, a question or obliger rebel. You'll get a little report that explains all this. There's a whole book about it if you want to know about it. But yeah, I do think that it can often be very illusion.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Okay, Gretch, it's time for demerits and gold stars. And this week, you are up with a happiness demerit.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay. This demerit reflects something that has puzzled me for years. It is bonkers to me how often there can be something in our lives that we really enjoy, and it somehow just falls out. I really enjoy doing this, and then I just forget to do it for three years. This happens to people all the time. It happens to me all the time. Other people report to it. I remember talking to a guy. He's like, I forgot about fishing. I love to fish. I gre. I fished all the time. And then he just got out of the habit of fishing for years and then picked it up again. And it was like he'd never stopped. Anyway, this is surprisingly easy to do. And here's an example. In my own life, you know, I go to the Met every day. And when I first started this years ago now, I bought these two big books about artworks in the Met. And I used to have this really fun thing that I would do once or twice a week where I would just open up one of the books at random, stick my finger on the page, look up an artwork, and then go look for it in the Met. I called it Met Scavenger Hunt. And it was just fun. Like, I would read a little bit about something, and then it was kind of a game to see, like, how well did I know the Met that I could, like, walk straight to it? Because some things I'm like, oh, I know exactly where that is. But some things I'd have to really search for. And I was just looking at a Bookshelf. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, there are those books I completely forgot about. Met Scavenger hunt and why did I forget? How did I forget? And now I'm giving myself this demerit and I'm very excited to start it up again because it was super fun.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. Yes, that does happen. We just forget things we like.

[Gretchen Rubin]

We just forget to do things we like. Well, what is your gold star?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, Gretch, I'm giving a gold star to my writing partner, slash co host of Happier in Hollywood, Sarah, for doing so well on her no buy list. So this year, what Sarah did instead of a 25 for 25 is she did 25 categories of things she doesn't want to buy in 2025. So everything from mugs to puzzles to T shirts. I don't remember all of the categories, but there are 25 of them. Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Knitting supplies. There are many facial products.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And she is just being so mindful about it. She's doing so well. We'll talk about something and she'll say, but I can't buy it because it's on my no buy list. She is really following through. And I'm just proud of her because that is not easy.

[Gretchen Rubin]

She is an overbuyer.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. And I think this is really curing her of being an overbuyer. And I can't wait to see in 2026.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right.

[Elizabeth Craft]

What her buying patterns are. Having gone through this, I have a feeling she'll buy a lot less, even once this experiment or exercise, whatever you want to call it, is done.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. As kind of an all or nothing person myself, to me, this really appeals, which is. I'm just going to say none and just take it off the list. And then there's sort of the whimsy of it or the game aspect of it where it's like this big challenge.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah. So it's fun.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It makes it fun. And I am. I'm really curious to see what the downstream effects of this are. It's very, very interesting.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. So gold star to Sarah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay. And the resource for this week is you can sign up for my free weekly newsletter called five Things Making Me Happy. I have so much fun writing this newsletter. It's really one of the joy of my weeks. It's a great place to shine the spotlight on things that just, just delight me or make me laugh. And it keeps me very aware of those things, which I love. So if you want to sign up for that, it'[e-mail] newsletter and then finally, what are we reading? Elizabeth, what are you reading?

[Elizabeth Craft]

I am reading Ready for Absolutely Nothing by Susanna Constantine.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I am reading How It Feels When a Parent Dies by Jill Kremlins. And that's it for this episode of Happier. Remember to try this at home. Consider cutting back on cussing. Let us know if you're trying it and how it works for you.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Thank you to our executive producer, Chuck Reed and everyone at Lemonada.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Please rate us, review us, follow us, and if the show brightens your day, send others our way.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Until next week. I'm Elizabeth Craft.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I'm Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Gretch. You know one of the things that keeps me from wanting to do something when you say people don't realize what you don't like. I hate going to downtown la, especially if I have to drive myself because GPS will drop out and it's a ton of one way streets and people just don't understand that. I don't want to go down downtown. So if you have an event that's downtown has nothing to do with your event. I simply don't want to go Right. Some people love it. I will say, I know many people who do love it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But you're like, it has no reflection on you. It's just if it's in downtown la, it's a no.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

From the Onward project.