← Happier with Gretchen Rubin
Happier with Gretchen Rubin
Ep. 533: Dust It Off or Let Go, the Power of PT & How to Create Compelling TV Characters
00:26:53
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- [00:01]
Gretchen Rubin
Gretch May is just such a time of celebrations. And I know for us when we're gonna host a celebration or take something to a celebration, I always go to Whole Foods Market.
- [00:13]
Elizabeth Craft
Yes, Whole Foods Market helps you save on everything you need with the quality and ingredient standards that we expect. One thing we love to do in the summer is grill and the house brand of Whole foods market through $3.65 by Whole Foods Market has all the essential at daily low prices that you need for the summer. Save on May celebrations with great everyday prices at Whole Foods Market.
- [00:39]
Gretchen Rubin
Lemonade.
- [00:49]
Elizabeth Craft
Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast where we talk about ways to make our lives happier, healthier, more productive and more creative. This week we'll talk why it's a good idea to dust it off and we will explore an interesting question from a listener about the four tendencies, personality framework and TV characters. I'm Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits, and human nature. I'm in New York City and joining me today from Los Angeles is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. And Elizabeth, you and I did some dusting it off when I was visiting you in Los Angeles a few weeks ago.
- [01:24]
Gretchen Rubin
That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer living in la. And yes, Gretch Meyer. My office is much cleaner now that you've been here, but before we jump.
- [01:33]
Elizabeth Craft
In, we have a few interesting updates.
- [01:36]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes, this comes from Nina. She says, a few months ago I listened to one of your happier episodes, in which Gretchen told a story about one of her daughters who was nervous about an exam. Gretchen spoke about how we as humans spend so much time worrying about impending stressful events, but when those dreaded situations actually occur, we rise to the occasion. I was deep in my first pregnancy when I heard this. I was intensely worried about all the unknowns of childbirth. Hearing these words of wisdom brought me a lot of comfort and I decided from then on out, I was not going to worry about the what ifs. To my pleasant surprise, it worked. I was fairly calm throughout the rest of my pregnancy. I'm sure glad I took this approach because I ended up going into labor four weeks early with unexpected severe preeclampsia and an emergency C section. Just like Gretchen had said, I found that once I was thrust into childbirth, I was able to rise to the occasion. Even though some of my worst fears about childbirth ended up coming true, I kept a calm attitude and gave birth to a healthy baby boy. Thank you so much for sharing your advice with we the listeners. I continue to use that strategy as I navigate parenthood for the first time. And it's helped me be much more present with my son.
- [02:51]
Elizabeth Craft
That's so great. It's so wonderful to hear that. That struck such a chord. It's such a difficult time.
- [02:57]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes. And congratulations on your new baby.
- [03:00]
Elizabeth Craft
Yes. That's wonderful. Laura had something to say about the rule of more. She writes, I have a rule of more example and a secret to adulthood in one. This pertains to decluttering. The longer you keep something, the longer you keep something. If you don't let go of something right away, something you don't want or need and hold onto it through many coals, there comes a point where a thing can become too precious to let go of simply because you've had it for so long. Years ago, I was with my mom when we opened her wedding memorabilia box just before her 25th wedding anniversary. Among the invitations, programs and guestbook, there were candies, chocolates and mints that were favors. I was mortified when she picked up the candies, considered them, and then put them back in the box and closed the lid. Please do not hold on to 25 year old candy because they are precious or sentimental. But I've noticed this, that especially things related to children, if you don't get rid of them Right. When they outgrow them, they become precious because they're tied to the past.
- [04:01]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes.
- [04:02]
Elizabeth Craft
Even if you don't want them to become precious.
- [04:04]
Gretchen Rubin
Well, and I have to say I relate to Laura's mom because I think I have decorated sugar cookies from my wedding shower, Gretch, which was, wow, well over a decade ago. So I relate to that. Yeah, it's a souvenir.
- [04:18]
Elizabeth Craft
Well, and things become precious just because they've been with us. This is like the brown plastic mixing bowl of mom and dad's that I'm always saying is so full of meaning. To me, it's just because it's been there for so long.
- [04:30]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes.
- [04:31]
Elizabeth Craft
That to me it's like an icon of our household. Which is fine because it's a very useful bowl which we use constantly, even to this day. But if it's a huge plastic slide that your kids used as toddlers, you might want to get rid of that thing, which I had to do. It was painful to let it go. But then I'm like, I'm really glad I don't still have that plastic slide.
- [04:49]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes, but you do still find it bittersweet. You mention it quite often.
- [04:54]
Elizabeth Craft
Yes, I do find it bittersweet. I took a picture of it. So I will never forget the giant plastic slide. But I do find life better with them though. Now, maybe Taffy would enjoy the plastic slide. It has like a little tunnel feature. She likes hopping in and out of things, but I think the dining room table works just as well for her for that. But this week, our try this at home suggestion is to dust it off. Whatever it is, either use it or get rid of it. Donate it or send it along its way.
- [05:22]
Gretchen Rubin
Yeah, this is perfect to go with Laura's comment. Gretch.
- [05:26]
Elizabeth Craft
Yes. Yeah, because you want to say, like, what is something that you say is important to you that you think of as being meaningful, but it's gathering dust. Because dust can be a really good reminder that something is not being used. It's a clue. And maybe it's dust or maybe it's stuff being stored on it. Like if it's covered with books or papers or clothes, then that can be another form of dust that needs to be dusted off.
- [05:53]
Gretchen Rubin
Gretchen, a good example of this is my treadmill desk. I've used my treadmill desk so much, it's the best gift you've ever given me. But it had become extremely cluttered, covered with so many things that I just didn't even want to use it. And one thing you helped me do when you were in LA was get it all cleared off and perfectly ready to use again. And that's an example of that's not something I want to get rid of. That is something I want to dust off and start using again.
- [06:22]
Elizabeth Craft
Right, so you dust it off so that it can become usable. But another thing that you dusted off and got rid of was the giant computer monitor, which never, since you've moved into this house, I don't believe that you have ever, ever used, even though it took up a huge amount of space on your desk.
- [06:39]
Gretchen Rubin
Well, not for a long time. There was a period when I used it, but that was a very long time ago. I think Jack was still a baby. So, yes, I had never even crossed my mind to get rid of it. Yes, but you said, either you need to start using this to write all the time or you need to get rid of it because it's completely messing up your desk space. And the truth is I now write almost exclusively on my iPad, so forget even a laptop. I don't even use my computer for writing scripts.
- [07:12]
Elizabeth Craft
Yeah, well, and it was just like, does this even work? Is this even hooked up? And you were sort of like, I don't even know. And it's clearly not something that you are using or that you would find useful, because not having something hooked up is a form of, I would say, dust. I've had a couple examples of friends where this had to do with musical instruments. So a friend of mine was saying how he has this kind of funny room in his house. You know, this is my happiness bully side. And it's just become sort of the junk room. And he was saying. And he's a very orderly person, and he was saying how he wanted to turn it into, like, a pleasant room and not just to have it be where everything that they didn't have another place for got dumped into it. And so we were talking through all the things that he might do with it, and he said, well, my keyboard is in there, and I want to play. And I said, okay, but do you play? And he said, in fact, I don't. And I was like, then why do you need to have your keyboard out if this isn't something that you use? And he's like, but I want to. And I was like, okay, well, then where can you put it? And can you dust it off and can you set it up and so you actually are using it and then set a deadline, which is like, I'm either going to start using my keyboard or I'm going to let my keyboard move into a different stage of its existence as a keyboard because I'm not using it. And then another friend, I was at his office, and he had, like, a regular office, like, with a door that's shut and everything, and he had a full set of drums in it. And I was like, this is an unconventional choice. Why do you have a full set of drums in your office? And he said, well, I liked the idea that I would be at work and I would take a little time and I would, like, do some drumming. And I thought, first of all, I thought, how popular is that with the other people who work near you? But even that aside, I was like, do you ever do that? And he's like, no, I never do. I'm like, it's a lot of space in your office, and it's kind of visually disruptive, I would say, to have a full set of drums there. And it was like, these things just become wallpaper to us. You don't even think, oh, maybe I would have more room on my crowded desk if I got rid of this monitor, or, oh, maybe my office would feel more spacious and orderly if I didn't have a full drum set in the corner. And then he was like, oh, I'm gonna get rid of it right away. I think we just have to remember to do it.
- [09:20]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes. Well. And Gretchen, I know this is part of why you keep your watercolors front and center so that you have to use them.
- [09:28]
Elizabeth Craft
Yes. Because I am sort of an all or nothing person. I worry about the nothing. And, yeah, I took my two weeks off for Tappy, but then I got right back into it. And I like to do it every day because there is no dust on it. Like, it's always being used. I'm using the brush and washing the brush and drying the brush, and, like, I'm wetting my palette, and then my palette dries out and I'm, like, using the hairdry if I need it to dry faster. Like, everything is being used. Nothing is, like, languishing in a corner. And that that makes me want to do it more. And again, maybe a lot of people are not all or nothing the way I am, but I feel like I would quickly abandon something if I didn't do it a lot.
- [10:04]
Gretchen Rubin
And you know, what I can see is that, let's say I'm thinking of Sarah, who likes to spin yarn. I think if she's in a phase of life where she doesn't have time, if she put that loom or whatever it is, the spinner away, so that she didn't. I'm just using this as an example. It didn't make her feel bad that she wasn't doing it every time she saw it. Yet when she gets to a place where she has time or desire to do it, brings it back out, it'll feel more special, and then you'll be more likely to do it.
- [10:33]
Elizabeth Craft
Well, that reminds me of one of my favorite ways to complete a project, which is to abandon it, which is just to say, I'm simply not going to do it. I'm not going to finish this puzzle, so I'm going to put it all back in the box. Or I'm never going to do origami. So I'm going donate the origami paper to a school or whatever is just to say I'm going to abandon it. And what she could do is say, like, in this season of life, I'm not going to be doing it. And so instead of having it at least cluttering up her space or actively making her feel guilty, you say, maybe I'll take this out in the winter. I think that that's a really good idea because then it's not just gathering dust in some corner, but it's like being purposefully accounted for.
- [11:10]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes.
- [11:10]
Elizabeth Craft
And then we got this interesting kind of related note from our listener, Laurie.
- [11:14]
Gretchen Rubin
She said, I recently started a new job in the break room. Have a community table where people put extra food or household items they want to share with others. Since starting two months ago, I have donated three different times and the items are gone before lunch. Makes me feel good they are going to be used by someone else and not just go in the trash. It's also great to get it out of my house.
- [11:36]
Elizabeth Craft
See, I love this and free cycling and all these ways to just donate things and send them on their way. I do think it's easier to dust something off and donate it if you know that someone else can put it to good use. That just helps you let go of it because you know that it will benefit someone else more than the use that you're getting out of it. So I love these systems that to make that a very easy thing to do. What a great idea for a workplace.
- [12:02]
Gretchen Rubin
Absolutely.
- [12:03]
Elizabeth Craft
So let us know if you do try this at home and how dusting it off works for you. What are you dusting off? Is it a treadmill desk? Is it a watercolor set? You know what this reminds me of, Elizabeth, too, is, you know that system that people have where they say, like, put all your clothes, have all the hangers facing one way and then as you wear them, hang them up the opposite way and so that at the end of six months, you can see that you've never taken something off out of the closet because you can see what hangers are pointing the opposite way. So that's kind of a clever way to realize what's dusty.
- [12:35]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes.
- [12:36]
Elizabeth Craft
Even if it's something like a shirt. So let us know on Instagram threads, TikTok, Facebook. Drop us an email@podcastretchenrubin.com or as always, you can go to the show. Notes. This is happiercast.com 533 for everything related to this episode.
- [12:51]
Gretchen Rubin
Coming up, we've got a physical therapy hack. But first, this break. Gretch. On this podcast, we talk a lot about how to make our lives happier. But you really can't pursue your happiest life if you're struggling with your relationship with food or your body. Eating disorders are a serious mental illness and they can affect people of any age, gender, or body size. They have a serious negative impact on physical and mental health and make it pretty impossible to be, well, happy.
- [13:33]
Elizabeth Craft
Eating disorders can show up in a lot of different ways. It might look like restrictive eating, compulsive exercise, or feeling out of control when you eat. If you're concerned about your eating habits or you're worried about someone in your life. We wanted to introduce you to Equip. Equip is a fully virtual evidence based eating disorder treatment program that helps patients achieve lasting recovery at home. If you think that you or a loved one could be struggling with an eating disorder, don't wait to get help. Visit Equip Health Slash Happier to learn more. That's Equip Health.
- [14:08]
Gretchen Rubin
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- [14:34]
Elizabeth Craft
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- [15:21]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes. So Gretchen, the hack is give physical therapy another try and they say a little background information. I significantly injured my hip while doing ballet in 2001 and the physical therapy I did as part of my recovery got me dancing again. But it did not help my hip pain. I lived with daily hip pain for 22 years when my new primary care doctor urged me to give physical therapy another try. After 14 weeks of physical therapy, I am hip pain free 99% of the time. As a side note, when I mentioned to my physical therapist that PT had not worked for me in the past, he told me that the field of physical therapy has come a long way in the last decade and is far more effective than it once was. This is such a good hack Gretchen. I think thousands of people would benefit.
- [16:11]
Elizabeth Craft
From this talking about having a happier life. Chronic pain is so draining and overwhelming. This is a great thing to realize. You may have tried this in the past and not had good results, but it could be very worth trying again. Also, sometimes people don't really go all. I mean, I know this from my husband, Jamie. They might not have been very diligent about their physical therapy. So even at the time, they didn't get everything out of it that they might have. And so to return to. To it, you might get a different result. And yes, if you're managing chronic pain, that is huge. What a great suggestion.
- [16:45]
Gretchen Rubin
Yeah. And I think people can get very resigned and stop trying. So it is so worth it to do whatever you can to feel better.
- [16:54]
Elizabeth Craft
Great hack.
- [16:55]
Gretchen Rubin
Okay, Gretch, it's time for a secret of adulthood.
- [16:58]
Elizabeth Craft
Yes. This is a secret of adulthood that I love, and it really helps with making decisions. This, I would say, is the secret of adulthood that I regularly consult in my own head. And that is, when in doubt about how to spend our time, energy, or money, spend it on relationships. And you know me, I don't like errands and scheduling and hassle and planning and all that. So for things like, should I go to my college reunion? I always say, well, is it worth it to me to spend my time, energy, and money on relationships? Will this help me do that? And I will. Like, this is a really good way to spend my time, energy, or money because it goes directly to relationships. Or my high school friends are like, we need to pick a weekend to try to get together. And that's always sort of a hassle. But it's like, use that time and energy because it's going to go straight to these important relationships.
- [17:51]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes, Gretch, I know anytime I spend my time, energy, and money on relationships, I feel rejuvenated.
- [17:58]
Elizabeth Craft
Well, and you can imagine how this could come up, because one thing that is happening for me is because I'm doing watercolor every day, and I'm, like, talking about it. A friend said, hey, I heard about this one day sketching and painting class in Brooklyn. I'm gonna do it. Do youo Wanna Do It Too? And I was like, yes, indeed I do. Because not only is it watercolor, but I'm gonna do it with a friend, and I'm gonna probably meet a bunch of new people. And to get the energy that comes from both exploring in New York City, but also talking to people who are interested in something that I'm interested in. And so it's a good way to think about it. Whereas it's like, oh, should I buy another black cardigan?
- [18:34]
Gretchen Rubin
Right?
- [18:35]
Elizabeth Craft
Maybe if you really need a black cardigan. But but probably using that money towards something that went to relationships might make me happier. Yes, sometimes you need a black cardigan. But I just find that I often am consulting this in terms of like, well, is this thing worth it? I mean, that's one of the things about getting a puppy. It's like the time, energy, or money. Because having a new dog is a really, really significant relationship. That's what's gonna happen if we get Taffy. And of course we have.
- [19:02]
Gretchen Rubin
And that has been the basis, Gretch, of all of your work. You have found that relationships are the thing that matters most.
- [19:10]
Elizabeth Craft
And now for a listener question. Elizabeth, this is a question that touches on both of our fields of expertise.
- [19:17]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes, this comes from Gina. She says, just listen to the recent Little Happier about the aphorism of the engineer interview in Better Call Saul.
- [19:25]
Elizabeth Craft
Oh, and I'll just explain and I'll put a link in the show notes. This was a little happier story that I told about a scene from Better Call Saul where Gus and Mike interviewed two structural engineers to build the underground meth lab. And so I talk about why I think that was such a compelling teaching story. I'll put a link in the show notes to anybody who wants to listen to that.
- [19:46]
Gretchen Rubin
Gretchen briefly notes that there are clear examples of the four tendencies in the characters, which made me wonder how. How are fictional characters developed with such clear personalities that fit within the four tendencies framework? I wonder how fiction writers of all types throughout time manage to write characters that are so relatable and fit within the framework. Perhaps long before the tendencies revealed themselves in this manner to Gretchen or. Or without knowing about the tendencies themselves, as you two have discussed in many different episodes. Examples abound in literature, TV and film. It feels like a hidden and plain view phenomenon. This is probably a question as much for Liz being a TV writer as it is for Gretchen being the creator of the four tendencies. I'd love to hear what you two think about this. Well, Gretchen, this is so interesting. And I will say that since you've created the four tendencies, Sarah and I definitely discuss the tendencies when we're creating characters.
- [20:44]
Elizabeth Craft
Do you?
- [20:45]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes, it helps us to give a shorthand to some personality aspects. Now, I will say that I think in television more than in real life, there are a lot of rebels, because rebels, I think, are handy for conflict and things happening.
- [21:04]
Elizabeth Craft
It's conspicuous. Yeah, right. And they're the more most different from the other three. Right, so then that often does create conflict. Yeah, I find that really gratifying because I think that great characters the reason that we find them to be great characters is because they resonate with us from our own experience in life. We think this is a character that rings true. And then sometimes you'll see a character and you're like, it doesn't make sense. Like, this character would not do that. That doesn't ring true. And so when I see the four tendencies, it's like, you don't even need to know about the four tendencies for the four tendencies to shine through with something like Better Call Saul, because these are such consistent patterns in human nature that people who are very perceptive about human nature pick them up, even if they don't know the framework and the language and the vocabulary that I've put around them. Like the Office, I'm like, I could tell you the tendency of everybody in the Office except for, like, three people, because they just fit.
- [22:00]
Gretchen Rubin
Well, Gretch, I'll say. If anybody wants to see a great example of Obliger Rebellion, watch the Desperate Housewives pilot, Bri in that has amaz major episode of Obliger Rebellion.
- [22:12]
Elizabeth Craft
And does it present the classic Indicia?
- [22:15]
Gretchen Rubin
Yes. She tries to actually kill her husband by giving him onions. I think it is. Which he's allergic to because she's fed up.
- [22:24]
Elizabeth Craft
Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, it's fun to look for them in movies, TVs, plays. It's a Wonderful Life is also, I think, is probably the most famous example of Obliger Rebellion that I could think of. And it's funny because even as a child, I never liked that movie. I found it very distressing. And I think that part of it is because he feels so trapped and overwhelmed and then has Obliger Rebellion. And it's very accurate depiction.
- [22:49]
Gretchen Rubin
Well, you know, when we build TV characters, we start with the surface and then go layer by layer. So anything we can do to add to making it a three dimensional person is helpful. And it's helpful because once you know them well, you know what they'll say or do. And so all of these kinds of tools are useful.
- [23:10]
Elizabeth Craft
And then with the novel that you're writing, do you find that you use the same process to develop those characters, or did it feel very different in that different medium?
- [23:17]
Gretchen Rubin
It's actually very similar. But what's nice is you can be in their head so you can access them a lot more easily than you can access a TV character whose thoughts you don't hear unless you have voiceover.
- [23:29]
Elizabeth Craft
Right. Everything has to be externally expressed.
- [23:32]
Gretchen Rubin
Exactly.
- [23:33]
Elizabeth Craft
Oh, interesting. Well, as always, I am always on the hunt for examples of the four tendencies in literature, in film, in tv, anywhere. If you have any examples of these, send them our way. And if you want to listen to the very short episode of A Little Happier where I talk about Better Call Saul and what the meaning of that scene was, I'll post it in the show Notes.
- [23:55]
Gretchen Rubin
Okay, coming up, Gretchen gives herself a shopping demerit. But first, this break.
- [24:11]
C
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- [25:26]
Gretchen Rubin
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- [25:56]
Elizabeth Craft
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- [26:29]
Gretchen Rubin
Okay, Gretch, you're up this week with a happiness demerit. Tell me about it.
- [26:34]
Elizabeth Craft
Okay, so I'm giving myself this demerit. It's now in the past. It's all fine. But I want to articulate the demerit so that it reminds me to be careful of this in the future, because it could have had very dire consequences. And I will tell you how. So Taffy was coming, and so there was stuff that we needed for our house, like, all the things that you need for a public. And so I had gone online, and I had picked out things and got it all set. And then the days were going by, and I noticed, and, you know, I had done it well before. We thought she would come, and nothing was showing up. And finally I was like, you know, I don't, like, usually tracking stuff. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna go look. Well, what I had done, and it's a classic mistake, is I had filled my cart, but I had never actually checked out. I had come to the end of my list, and then I must have gotten distracted. I probably left my office for some reason. And then when I came back, I mentally checked it off my list, like, oh, I got all this stuff that I needed, but I didn't actually check out. Now, fortunately, I was able to go right back in, and I didn't have to, like, pick everything out again. They were in my cart. But this reminded me of something that happened, related to my college reunion. Oh, and it's important to go to your college reunions, because that's how you connect with old friends. But a friend of mine, she and her husband both were in the same college class. This was when they had young kids. And so they decided, well, which one of them was going to go? Because they felt like one of them had to stay home. And so she decided, okay, this time, I'll let him go so he can go. And for some reason, it fell to her to, like, get him the ticket. And so finally, the weekend is coming, and he's packed his bag, and he's like, okay, like, you need to forward me the information about the ticket. And she had done exactly the same thing. She had picked it out. They had talked about the times and everything, but somehow she had gotten distracted before she actually bought the ticket. So she hadn't bought him an airline ticket. And so, like, to fly across the country was just exorbitantly expensive. And so he couldn't come.
- [28:27]
Gretchen Rubin
Oh, bummer.
- [28:28]
Elizabeth Craft
And it was just sad because they had gone through this whole process. And I understand even more thoroughly how that could happen. And so it's one of these things. If you hear a cautionary tale, maybe you will save yourself some hassle, and maybe I will save myself some hassle by making sure that, like, you go all the way through the system if you need to do it. So that is my demerit. Elizabeth, what is your gold star? Take us up.
- [28:51]
Gretchen Rubin
Well, Gretch, I'm giving you a gold star.
- [28:54]
Elizabeth Craft
Ooh.
- [28:55]
Gretchen Rubin
Was. I think you're handling the whole state of being a new puppy person very well. I know that you like your order, you like your routine.
- [29:04]
Elizabeth Craft
Yeah.
- [29:05]
Gretchen Rubin
And I know that having taffy does throw it up in the air a bit. And I think you're staying very calm throughout this.
- [29:14]
Elizabeth Craft
I don't know that Jamie would 100% agree with you. I think he would say I'm doing okay.
- [29:20]
Gretchen Rubin
Okay. Well, from my point of view, you're doing very well. I'm proud of you. To me, that shows you're kind of overwhelmed. Overall evolution as a human, which is the whole point of the happiness project. So I think it's all working.
- [29:34]
Elizabeth Craft
I think I'm better. I think I'm doing better. I think my recovery is quicker and. Yeah. Oh, good. Well, thank you.
- [29:40]
Gretchen Rubin
I don't think you hold it as heavily, see it, recognize it, know you're irritated, know you're uncomfortable.
- [29:47]
Elizabeth Craft
Yes.
- [29:47]
Gretchen Rubin
And you're able to. Yeah. Get an equilibrium faster.
- [29:50]
Elizabeth Craft
I do think so. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. Gold star. The resource for this week. In the spirit of spring cleaning, because it's the season of spring cleaning, I have gathered my favorite organization tools and ideas in one place. Tips for spring cleaning, how to create outer order in your daily life. That might be like a big clean out. If you want to do something dramatic or maybe just a little inspiration to get started, there's a lot of resources on my site. Just go to happiercast.com organization or just poke around and you'll find. Find whatever you're looking for. But, Elizabeth, what are we reading? What are you reading?
- [30:24]
Gretchen Rubin
I'm reading King Leopold's Ghost by Adam Hochschild.
- [30:28]
Elizabeth Craft
And I am reading Pick the Lock by as King. And that's it for this episode of Happier. Remember to try this at home. Dust it off. Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you. And what did you dust off?
- [30:41]
Gretchen Rubin
Thank you to our executive producer, Chuck Reed and everyone at Lemonada.
- [30:46]
Elizabeth Craft
And here's your rhyming reminder. And, you know, we say this every week, but we mean it. Most sincerely. It really does help us. If you like the show, tell others you know.
- [30:55]
Gretchen Rubin
Until next week. I'm Elizabeth Craft.
- [30:57]
Elizabeth Craft
And I'm Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward. So, Elizabeth, how are you liking your desk without the monitor? Do you notice it or like you don't even register any difference?
- [31:18]
Gretchen Rubin
No, it is a huge difference, Gretch. It's a game changer. I feel like there's so much room. I feel like it all makes sense. You were absolutely right. I resisted you. But you are a hundred percent correct on that one.
- [31:32]
Elizabeth Craft
The thing is, it took up a lot of visual space. Yes, it took up surface space, so you were crowded forward, but it's also like a big looming thing right in front of you.
- [31:42]
Gretchen Rubin
It was like the Empire Death Star in front of me. So I'm much, much better off without it.
- [31:48]
Elizabeth Craft
I get such a vicarious buzz from the onward project.