Gretchen Rubin (3:09)

I love this idea. It's no decision fatigue. It's whimsy. It's using all your clothes. It feels good to use everything that we have and not have things kind of languishing.

Elizabeth Craft (3:17)

Yes.

Gretchen Rubin (3:17)

I think this is such a great silhouette.

Elizabeth Craft (3:20)

So fun.

Gretchen Rubin (3:20)

And then Paula writes, you mentioned incorporating another facet into a longer reading retreat. I have a good friend and fellow reader and we make an effort to get tickets to book tour events or readings with authors that we enjoy. We have traveled to different cities in North Carolina where we live, as well as Atlanta and D.C. for these events. We've also been trying to find a good time to visit Ann Patchett's bookstore in Nashville. That's the very famous Parnassus bookstore. All that to say an author event or a unique or significant bookstore. Author landmarks, such as a historic home or park or setting for a shared book obsession. I had a friend visit Prince Edward island, mostly from her love of Anne of Green Gables. That could be a fun tie in for a reading retreat. Elizabeth, As a part of our reading retreat, we went to Godmother's Bookstore. That was super fun.

Elizabeth Craft (4:07)

Yes. I love this idea.

Gretchen Rubin (4:09)

Well, and as an author myself, I love it when people come to my event. So that's something that would be fun for you and very much appreciated by the authors too. That's a great idea.

Elizabeth Craft (4:17)

We have been wanting to go to Parnassus, which is Ann Patchett's bookstore in Nashville. So maybe we plan around that.

Gretchen Rubin (4:24)

I was just in Nashville and they have an outpost in the airport, but my flight was so early that I couldn't go into it. But I looked at it. It looked great. But of course, it's not the same as actually going to the bookstore. So yes, that's a bucket list thing. This week, our try this at home suggestion is to put your money where your mouth is.

Elizabeth Craft (4:42)

So what do you mean by this?

Gretchen Rubin (4:43)

Okay, so now this is tricky. Okay, this can be very powerful, but it can also lead you astray. So you have to be very careful in putting your money where your mouth is. Now, it is the case that sometimes for some people, it can be very, very powerful to signal commitment or intention by putting their money where their mouth is, by buying a book, by signing up For a class by purchasing a piece of equipment that sometimes by doing that, by making that affirmative step, laying out some money, you get the machinery going.

Elizabeth Craft (5:19)

Yes, that makes sense, Gretch. I would say for underbuyers or maybe just regular buyers, I would think overbuyers may want to skip this one.

Gretchen Rubin (5:27)

Well, overbuyers just generally. It is a good note that this can be tricky because it is sometimes the case, and I think we've all experienced this or seen somebody do it, where our desire to purchase the stuff outstrips our desire to actually use the stuff. And I remember this because I had a roommate right after I graduated from college, and she went out and she bought everything for rollerblading. The cute outfit, the pads, the Rollerblades. Like, she got all this stuff, and then she only went rollerblading, like, one time. And clearly her desire to have the fun of buying this stuff because overbuyers enjoy or get satisfaction out of that buying it, was way beyond what she actually meant to use the. All the equipment. But it is true that it can be a very effective first step.

Elizabeth Craft (6:11)

Yes, I can see that now.

Gretchen Rubin (6:13)

I remember I had a friend who was in a difficult marriage, and she told me how finally one day she, like, very surreptitiously bought a book about divorce. And for her, this was a critical moment, because she said, this was the moment where through her actions, she acknowledged to herself, I am very seriously contemplating a divorce. And before that, she hadn't let herself articulate it that clearly. And it was something that in the end, she was very, very happy that she did. And she said that looking back, it was that moment that was really the true moment where she set out to change her life in a very big way.

Elizabeth Craft (6:53)

Yeah. So it's not the $12 she spent. It's the act of spending that money indicates an intention.

Gretchen Rubin (7:03)

Yeah.

Elizabeth Craft (7:03)

And then an intention that you then obviously need to follow through on.

Gretchen Rubin (7:08)

That you just need to follow. Right. It's not enough. It has to be that it is the first step for many steps. And there's also aspects to it as well, because I'm watercoloring every day, or sort of I'm trying to watercolor every day in 2025. But before this, I signed up for a watercolor class, which ended up not working out. But the reason that I did it is I was like, okay, I want to clear time to watercolor, to practice. And for me, because I am such an upholder, if I signed up for the class, I would go to the class. And I was like, by buying the class, I am actually buying the experience of watercoloring for a certain amount of time each week. In addition to, like, gaining skills and all that, it's a way to open up my calendar and say, okay, I'm really gonna dedicate time and energy to this thing. Beyond just making up my mind by putting my money where my mouth is. I felt like, okay, I'm really doing this watercolor thing well.

Elizabeth Craft (7:55)

And, Gretchen, I definitely did this with Orange Theory Fitness. So I said I was going to try it, and then I tried it, and I decided I wanted to do it. And rather than, I think at first I bought maybe a 10 pack of 10 classes, but then I decided, okay, I really want to do this. I want to incorporate it into my life. And so I made the decision to get the monthly pack where I could go twice a week rather than the 10 pack, because it is cheaper if you actually go twice that. That's a crucial part.

Gretchen Rubin (8:28)

Right.

Elizabeth Craft (8:28)

And so by doing that, I definitely encourage myself to do that. And I think had I not done that, I don't know if I'd be as dedicated as I am.

Gretchen Rubin (8:39)

Well, this is a good example of knowing what kind of putting your money where your mouth is works for you. Because sometimes for people, it's just the expenditure. Sometimes a class where there is the accountability of going to the class. Maybe you have a teacher you want to think about what kind of thing is going to make you more likely to follow through. Another thing I think a lot of people do is get a journal. And sometimes, even if you don't keep the journal, the journal is sort of a symbolic gesture of, we're beginning our renovation, or I'm planning a garden. And that is kind of like, okay, now I'm starting to write down my thoughts, so that can be. I feel like for me, a lot of times I've started journals as a way to indicate that some big project is starting to. Even if I don't end up keeping up the journal.

Elizabeth Craft (9:22)

Yeah, it's interesting. It's like, spending that money can almost be like jumping off a cliff. You know, where you're like, okay, I'm just gonna do this. I mean, in a good way. Jumping off a cliff. I'm just gonna take this step. Even though maybe it feels scary or overwhelming, but if I do it, then I know that my being will follow.

Gretchen Rubin (9:43)

Yeah. And again, the problem is that sometimes it works, and sometimes I just have had things where it was really like the fantasy self or thinking, like, if I make this purchase, of course I will have to do it. There was a period in my life as a writer where I thought that I had to, like, do interviews, right? So many people who do journalism or write nonfiction do interviews as part of their process. And a lot of times people assume that I do interviews, but I don't really do interviews, not the way a journalist does an interview. There was a period where I felt like, oh, gosh, I really have to do that. I can't be a writer and not do that. And. And so what I did is I bought a digital recorder. I asked a friend of mine who did that. I was like, okay, what do you get? And I thought, okay, if I get this thing, then I will feel like I can do it, and that will make me do it. But I hadn't worked on myself, which is that I had no desire to do those interviews, and it felt like it wasn't something I wanted to do at all. And, of course, if I didn't want to do it at all, buying the digital recorder is not going to solve that problem. So I did the wrong thing, which is hoping that the mere purchase would drive my behavior instead of saying, okay, I'm gonna make a purchase that's gonna help me with the behavior, like, make it more convenient or easier or cheaper or whatever. And kind of along the same lines, I know somebody who. He played a ton of tennis when he was younger, and then as an adult, he stopped playing, and he really wanted to get back into it. He worked all the time, and he thought, okay, I need to start playing tennis again. So he bought a really expensive racket, but he didn't play because buying the racket wasn't enough. So he might have done better to buy, like, a package of lessons where the thing that he bought represented actually playing tennis because the object just sat in his closet.

Elizabeth Craft (11:16)

So part of it is figuring out how to spend your money. Like, if you're gonna put your money where your mouth is, how do you spend it? If you want to write, are you better off spending money on a night at a hotel than you are on a new computer where you're a night at a hotel where you're gonna be alone? It's like, how do you spend money to have this thing happen that you want to happen?

Gretchen Rubin (11:40)

Right, exactly. Because how do you do it so that it's the most compelling? Just to take sort of an exercise example, maybe it's the question of, should I invest in a stationary bike or should I invest in a spin class?

Elizabeth Craft (11:54)

Right.

Gretchen Rubin (11:54)

And for one person, there's no one right answer. But you might think it through to yourself and be like, which one is more likely to be the first step toward a regular practice, toward my aim? And which one do I think that I might just ignore? Because I think some people might be more likely to ignore the class. They'd be like, oh, I just don't have time. I'm so pressed for time. But if it was just sitting in some back hallway, they'd be like, okay, I don't have any excuse not to do it. It's just sitting right here. And for other people it would be exactly the opposite. Yeah. So yes, you're right. Put your money where your mouth is, but think carefully about how you do it.

Elizabeth Craft (12:24)

Yes.

Gretchen Rubin (12:25)

Well, let us know if you do try this at home and how you've put your money where your mouth is and what form did that take? I think that this question of how to spend it in the right way so that it does help you achieve your aims is tricky. I think it'd be very interesting to hear hear how people have done this. So let us know on Instagram threads, TikTok, Facebook. Drop us an email@podcastretchenrubin.com or as always, go to the show notes. This is happiercast.com548 coming up inspired by.

Elizabeth Craft (12:49)

Taffy, we have a puppy hack. But first, this break. One thing that makes us happier, Gretch, is getting our work done efficiently and well. We are all trying to figure out how to work smarter, not harder. Whether that's automating our post meeting follow ups, or streamlining how we communicate and collaborate across teams. Fireflies turns your meetings into action so you can focus on achieving results. Fireflies is the number one AI teammate that transcribes, summarizes and analyzes your conversations so you can get the most out of every meeting.

Gretchen Rubin (13:33)

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Gretchen Rubin (14:36)

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Elizabeth Craft (15:15)

Okay, Gretch, we are back with this week's happiness hack, which is inspired by your new puppy, Taffy.

Gretchen Rubin (15:21)

Yes. Okay, so Taffy needs to be house trained, of course, or apartment trained. And I thought that when we started, I was like, get out a little piece of paper or notebook and we'll note when she went out. And because, you know, when they're really, really little puppies, you have to really watch it. And it's like, okay, she drank water half an hour, we got to go out. We sort of were really on top of it, and I was just going to do it on a piece of paper, and then my daughter Eliza is like, no, no, no. There are these apps that let you track it. And I thought, oh, we don't need another app. Like, I hate going into my phone and click, click, click. It just seemed easier to do it by paper, but oh, my goodness, no, it is much easier to do it with an app because it's eat, drink, pee, poop. And the one that we use is Puppy Potty Log, which is just I told Eliza, you figure out which one we should do. And so we just did that one. There's clearly many that let you do this so you could find the one that is more closely with your features. But here's a couple reasons why it's great. One is it's Jamie, Eleanor, and me all doing this. And so sometimes I come home and nobody's home. And I'm like, when was the last time she went out? And instead of having to text, I could just say, like, oh, I see that she must have been outside at such and such a time. And so it just makes communication easier. And then also now she's not really having accidents, but when she was having accidents, it was easier to see patterns because of just the way that it's all laid out. And here's the other thing. It will send you notifications.

Elizabeth Craft (16:40)

Oh.

Gretchen Rubin (16:41)

And they were really accurate. It was like, hey, Taffy needs to pee in 10 minutes.

Elizabeth Craft (16:45)

Oh, wow, that's useful.

Gretchen Rubin (16:47)

So it was really useful, partly because it was predicting, and it wasn't always when we were predicting, but then also sometimes you're sort of vaguely aware, oh, we should take her out. But then getting the notification, the whole process was easier. And now she's doing really, really well. But of course, it's never the dog's fault. It's us. Were we being consistent in how we took her out? Because we can't just open the back door. We have to, like, put on our leash and take her down in the elevator and walk through the lobby and take her outside. So it's a whole thing. But anyway, using an app to track it, I think was a big help.

Elizabeth Craft (17:16)

That's great.

Gretchen Rubin (17:17)

There you go. And now for a know yourself better question. This is so fun.

Elizabeth Craft (17:22)

Yes. I love this. What's the most surprising thing you do for fun?

Gretchen Rubin (17:28)

Yes. And they were very surprised. I think they were surprising in that they didn't sound fun to most people, but people found them fun.

Elizabeth Craft (17:34)

Yes.

Gretchen Rubin (17:35)

What did you find fun?

Elizabeth Craft (17:36)

So, Gretchen, I find ironing fun, which I think would surprise people, especially coming from me, since I'm not known.

Gretchen Rubin (17:46)

Yes.

Elizabeth Craft (17:46)

For picking up and cleaning a lot. But I do enjoy ironing.

Gretchen Rubin (17:51)

And why is that?

Elizabeth Craft (17:52)

Well, I enjoy one now that I've realized I could iron things, that I'm on the border if they need to go to the dry cleaner or not. But if I iron them, I can wash them instead of sending them to the dry cleaner, which is much cheaper. So I have fun. Saving money. I have fun. I feel it connects me to the past because I have such memories of mom ironing. She always had this huge basket filled with ironing, and she would stand and watch TV and iron. I have fun because sometimes when I'm ironing, I'll pair it with something I love, like Vanderpump Rules, and then I'm double fun there. Also, it's sort of, for me, like play acting. I'm almost play acting like I'm a real mom and wife who does these things because I still don't feel grown up in that way.

Gretchen Rubin (18:40)

Yes.

Elizabeth Craft (18:40)

So this really gives me that thrill of being a mom and a wife, being a grownup.

Gretchen Rubin (18:45)

Well, speaking of, like, Ironing when we were young, so I would iron Dad's handkerchiefs.

Elizabeth Craft (18:50)

I would, too.

Gretchen Rubin (18:51)

Yeah. And what I like about ironing is that it's so satisfying in that something's all wrinkly and rumpled, and then you just do it and it's smoothed out. And there's something about the heat and the weight and it just seeing that effect, it feels very effective, satisfying. There's a lot of sensory pleasure in ironing that you might not think, oh, that's interesting, Elizabeth. That's a great source of fun.

Elizabeth Craft (19:11)

What do you do for fun?

Gretchen Rubin (19:13)

I like to clear clutter, and I especially like to clear other people's. I find it incredibly energizing just seeing the space open out and, like, sorting through things, giving things away feels good because I'm like, okay, these objects are going to go and live a long and happy life with somebody else in a place where they'll be more appreciated. I feel like they have their little personalities, and they feel like they're all excited to go on a new adventure and just seeing the space open up. And so sometimes if I'm feeling blue, I'll just think, oh, is there a place in my apartment? Should I go fishing under a bed somewhere or in some corner? Because it just makes me feel calmer to, like, organize things.

Elizabeth Craft (19:52)

But it is interesting with you having witnessed it. It's not just that it makes you feel calm. It's that you do actually find it.

Gretchen Rubin (20:00)

Fun, actively fun, which you just don't understand how that's possible.

Elizabeth Craft (20:05)

I don't. Every time you say you want to clear clutter, I have to rewrap my head around the idea that you actually want to do this and you're not just.

Gretchen Rubin (20:14)

Yeah.

Elizabeth Craft (20:15)

Being a martyr.

Gretchen Rubin (20:16)

No, I just like putting things away. And, like, this can go. And why do you have these magazines? Maybe we should put this in the garage. And do you actually wear this? And, like, if this is your ninth pair of favorite. I mean, I remember, you know, I'm constantly trying to happiness bullying my friends into letting me come over and clean out their clutter. And I mean, I had a friend who. I mean, she just had 30 pairs of jeans. And I'm like, when do you wear your 29th favorite pair of jeans? You just don't. She's like, well, they're all good. I like them all. I'm like, but you really don't, do you? And she had them stacked in, like, a completely vertical pile. So I'm like, you just physically almost even can't get to the bottom ones. It took us 30 minutes to dig under there cause you know jeans are heavy and they were crammed into this space. That's why I wrote Outer Order Inner Calm. I just find it fun to think about it. I don't know why, but I really do. Yes, you and I are a good pair. We're like Dax Bratt could eat no fat and his wife could eat no lean because you have a lot of clutter and I love to clear it. So that's fun.

Elizabeth Craft (21:10)

So Gretch, let's hear what some listeners find fun. Kelly said, I make fire starters from cardboard, egg cartons, dryer lint and old candles. I like making something useful out of items that would otherwise be tossed out. Well that's interesting.

Gretchen Rubin (21:24)

That's unique. This one I love. Mandy says, I like going to the busy Walmart by me and getting all the errant shopping cards from around the parking lot and putting them in the corral. I only do it a couple of times a year when I'm really stressed about work. Lol. But it helps. I just love that. That is hilarious.

Elizabeth Craft (21:43)

Hilarious. Allison said, I do factor trees in pencil going up to higher and higher numbers.

Gretchen Rubin (21:49)

Well this is interesting because I've also heard people talk about liking to diagram sentences. I think it's the same creating order out of things. Linda said, I have found the art of junk journals and I can't get enough of it. A junk journal is a handmade book created from many types of paper, often recycled materials like patterned paper sheet music envelopes, paper bags, maps, brochures and more. The covers are often created from old book covers or cardboard or chipboard bases covered with paper, fabric or paint. So this is a craft where again, it's recycling things that would otherwise maybe be tossed out.

Elizabeth Craft (22:24)

Nancy said, polishing silverware, the improvement is quick and very satisfying. That's sort of like ironing, I'd say.

Gretchen Rubin (22:30)

Yes, I get it. Robin said, I love to make fun decor. We celebrate everything we possibly can. This allows me to make banners, table planners, tiered tray decor, etc for the major holidays as well as back to school birthdays, the dog's birthday, last day of school, and our special family yearly holiday. It gives me such joy to add to them every year. Oh, that's so festive.

Elizabeth Craft (22:51)

Becky said, I'd say it's more meditative than fun. I like to hand wash dishes.

Gretchen Rubin (22:57)

I've heard that too. There's something about the cleaning and the soapy water and Amora said, a lot of people find it hard work, which it is, but I really love the process of making silver jewelry. I found myself collecting books, going to talks, and watching videos to learn the intricacies of making hinges. The more I learn, the more curious I become. It's fun. So I'm a jeweler now.

Elizabeth Craft (23:17)

Ooh, love it.

Gretchen Rubin (23:18)

Fancy.

Elizabeth Craft (23:19)

Christina says, unloading the groceries and getting our fridge and pantry all stocked up, I look forward to it every week.

Gretchen Rubin (23:26)

You know what this makes me think of is for my Empty Nest Open Door project is how I identify the love of provisioning.

Elizabeth Craft (23:32)

Yes.

Gretchen Rubin (23:33)

People who like to stock up and then, like, have their supplies. That's somebody who likes to provision. David said, I like to steam. It's like ironing, but only the cool kids do it. I love it. I like steaming better than ironing, but they're both good.

Elizabeth Craft (23:47)

I've found that I like ironing better.

Gretchen Rubin (23:49)

That's a good distinction. Elizabeth. We're always like, are you an abstainer or a moderator? Are you night person or a morning person? Are you a steamer or an ironer?

Elizabeth Craft (23:55)

Wendy said, making lists. Even if I never look at them again, I just love making them. And embellishing them with stickers brings it to another level.

Gretchen Rubin (24:04)

Okay, you want to know one of the secrets of adulthood that did not make it into my Secrets of Adulthood book because I decided it was just too silly? Yeah, my secret of adulthood was I love making lists. In fact, when I'm not making a list, I feel listless.

Elizabeth Craft (24:18)

Oh, that's hysterical.

Gretchen Rubin (24:20)

I just got the biggest kick out of that. But it's like, okay, no, not the tone for the book. Paula said, pulling weeds. It gives me an excuse to be outside and be somewhat productive. Wonderful.

Elizabeth Craft (24:29)

Teresa says, nothing makes me feel more like a mom than pressing a garment as a special favor for my teen daughter who's prepping for something special. So Theresa and I share that.

Gretchen Rubin (24:41)

That's interesting. Elynn said, Vacuuming my cats I bathe my cats once every two months and brush their fur at least once a week. But after I mop the floor, I like to give my cats a good once over with the handheld vacuum to reduce the amount of fur they shed onto my freshly mopped floor. It's fun and therapeutic for both parties. Okay, I've never heard of that.

Elizabeth Craft (25:01)

Okay, never. My dogs would not abide a vacuum sound by their body.

Gretchen Rubin (25:07)

Interesting.

Elizabeth Craft (25:08)

Kathy said, I shred papers at the office when I feel the need to move, do something that's not in front of a computer. I could see enjoying shredding documents.

Gretchen Rubin (25:18)

I think in the TV show the Office, Pam talks about how she likes shredding. Or maybe some kids are visiting and somebody from the office says, come on, let's go shred. Because it is fun to shred. Lisa said, untying knots. Ooh, I wish somebody in my life liked to untie knots.

Elizabeth Craft (25:33)

Meg says, sharpen pencils. I'm a teacher, so she must sharpen a lot of pencils.

Gretchen Rubin (25:38)

Yeah. Joa said, not anymore. But when I was a child, I used to read the dictionary and memorize words in alphabetical order for fun. Wow. That's very enriching.

Elizabeth Craft (25:46)

Yeah. And finally, Lisa says, kicking the accumulation of snow out of my wheel wells. I've taught my daughter the joy as well, passing the fun down generation to generation.

Gretchen Rubin (25:58)

That's great. Well, these are so fun. It makes me see things differently, like polishing silver and hand washing dishes, ironing and steaming. Just because something is fun for you doesn't mean it's fun for someone else, and vice versa. And this is a great example.

Elizabeth Craft (26:11)

Yes, some of these things seem more fun to me now that other people find them fun. I'm gonna try to find them fun, too.

Gretchen Rubin (26:18)

Exactly.

Elizabeth Craft (26:19)

All right, Gretch. Coming up, I give myself a demerit that actually is sort of connected to what you find fun. But first, this break.

Gretchen Rubin (26:30)

Foreign.

Elizabeth Craft (26:36)

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Gretchen Rubin (26:56)

ADT offers tools and services like 24. 7 monitoring and cameras. You can check from virtually anywhere with the ADT app, visit ADT.com or call 1-800-ADT ASAP. Don't settle for Safish. Get ADT. Every year on the Happier podcast, Elizabeth and I invite our listeners to join us on an annual challenge. This year, we brought back the listener favorite, and it is read 25 and 25 to read 25 minutes every day. In 2025 to take our reading challenge to the next level, Lizard and I went on our first ever Sisters reading retreat with no distraction, just stacks of books.

Elizabeth Craft (27:35)

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Gretchen Rubin (28:18)

Okay, it's time for demerits and gold stars. And this is an even numbered episode, which means, Elizabeth, it's your turn to talk about demerit.

Elizabeth Craft (28:26)

Yes. So, Gretchen, speaking of your love of clutter clearing, you were here a few months ago and helped me clear the clutter in my office and get my office all cleaned up. So then last time you helped me with my bedroom closet, but the time before that, it was about the office.

Gretchen Rubin (28:43)

Yes.

Elizabeth Craft (28:44)

And I have to confess, I let my office get messy again after you were so helpful and it was so nice and wonderful. Now I feel like I'm not exactly back where I started, but I'm pretty close.

Gretchen Rubin (28:57)

So here's my question. It seems like the most important thing is your treadmill desk.

Elizabeth Craft (29:02)

Yes.

Gretchen Rubin (29:03)

Have you been using your treadmill desk? Because one of the reasons that you weren't using your treadmill desk is it had just become covered with stuff, so we did get it cleared off. Have you been using your treadmill desk?

Elizabeth Craft (29:13)

Not as much as I swore I was going to. No. I get on it, but not every day. And my intention was absolutely to do it every day. Let's see if I look over at it right now. It's definitely nowhere near as cluttered as it was, but it does have stuff on it. Like, it has a sweater on it that needs to go back to the closet. It has a microphone that I have to give back to Chuck on it. It has a stack of manuscript pages on it. It's definitely a bit cluttered.

Gretchen Rubin (29:42)

Is it usable? Could you use it as a treadmill desk? Or would you have to clear it off if you were going to use it as a desk?

Elizabeth Craft (29:48)

I could use it, yes. I can use it, but maybe it's not so pleasant. So I need to get that least cleared. But the point is, I just. I don't know. I mean, I'm saying this as a demerit so that hopefully I will get in gear, because I was thinking if I just literally five minutes a day worked on this, I could do it. It's not even hard. A closet is hard because you have to organize. You have to, like, figure out where things go. There are so many questions. My office is actually a lot easier to clean because it's much clearer what needs to happen.

Gretchen Rubin (30:28)

Yeah. And things have places. Here's my desire.

Elizabeth Craft (30:32)

Okay.

Gretchen Rubin (30:33)

We're always pressed for time. We're always, like, jamming it in. I'm always like, oh, my gosh, we've got two hours. Let's do it. And we really have never had a whole day where we could really go into that next level and get everything really. You know, the harder things, where it's like, do you even really want to keep this where you have to think it through? So we're always kind of on the surface of it, and I think that's one of the reasons that it comes creeping back. The thing that's nice about your office is that you have a lot of space. You have a lot of counter space, you have a lot of shelf space. You have a lot of drawer space. So you do have room to put things away.

Elizabeth Craft (31:10)

Well, one thing that's challenging about that, Gretchen, is that would involve both Adam and me, because we share this office in theory, although I've taken it over for myself, and it has much of his stuff in it. So partly it's not just my stuff, it's his stuff. So that does make the full thing you're talking about more challenging, because he would have to be here for that. I could not do that without him. You'd have to take your relationship to another level to confront him about certain items.

Gretchen Rubin (31:41)

Well, could they move potentially to the garage or something? I mean, that would be the kind of thing. But, yeah, maybe it's like some people do not appreciate my full happiness bully mode. I have come to accept that, Elizabeth, you are very tolerant of my happiness bully mode and really see the positive in it. Not everybody is willing to make themselves available for it.

Elizabeth Craft (32:01)

We'll ponder that. But meanwhile, I'm hoping I'll at least fold my throw blanket and do the easy things, because there are many of them to do.

Gretchen Rubin (32:10)

You often do have easy things. I mean, one thing that works really well for me is just at the end of every day, take 10 minutes to just do the most basic tidying, like pens and pen cups and dirty dishes to the kitchen and clothes and books on bookshelves or, oh, this book is a library book, and now I'm done with it. Or, you know, just, like, the very obvious things.

Elizabeth Craft (32:30)

Yeah. So I will do that.

Gretchen Rubin (32:31)

Okay.

Elizabeth Craft (32:32)

All right, Gretch, what is your gold star?

Gretchen Rubin (32:34)

Well, I want to give a gold star to all the teachers and professors out there. You know, we are in the back to school season where people are focusing on school and their classes and their learning. And it always just makes me think, even though, you know, I'm not in school now myself, of like, how much teachers and professors have added to my life. What a huge difference they've made. Elizabeth at our school, we had such great teachers. We talk about it all the time. What an amazing education we got. And it's very strange. Cause I love reading memoirs. One of the things that is really striking to me, and at one point I was starting to think I should make a list, is how often someone will talk about a moment where a teacher said something, and sometimes it was even almost an offhand comment, and it changed their life. For instance, in one of my little Happiers, I tell the story of how Steve Carell, you know, who is this huge Hollywood actor, he's Michael Scott in the Office, my very favorite TV show, he talked about this very, very tiny moment that changed his life. I think he said, I don't remember, but he was young. He was like, maybe in second grade or fifth grade, they were like doing acting. So they were pretending to paddle in a canoe. And the teacher said, oh, everyone, look at Steve, because you see how he's switching sides the way you do if you're paddling a canoe. He really looks like he's paddling. And he was so full of pride. He said it was the first time that anyone had pointed out that he was doing something well. And you just think this one moment. And so I just feel like teachers and professors are just in this place in our lives where they have an enormous influence and a lot of work. A lot, a lot, a lot of work. So it's good to take a moment and say thank you to the teachers. Gold stars to the teachers. They put gold stars in other people's homework. They deserve gold stars themselves.

Elizabeth Craft (34:22)

Yes, they do.

Gretchen Rubin (34:23)

The Resource for this Week if you are not getting my five Things newsletter, why aren't you getting it? You should get it. It is so fun. I love it. It's a huge thing that I enjoy and look forward to every week. In it, I share insights like why a sour hour can be useful, how to gamify decluttering. I write about research that I've read that's interesting or funny, words that I've learned, and just anything that really genuinely made me happy. More than a million people subscribe to this, which I find to be bonkers. It's so fun.

Elizabeth Craft (34:53)

Wow.

Gretchen Rubin (34:54)

You can sign up@happiercast.com newsletter. It's free and it's weekly and it's not very long, but it's super fun.

Elizabeth Craft (35:00)

I read it every Friday.

Gretchen Rubin (35:02)

Oh, what a good sister. Melissa what are we reading? In addition to the newsletter, I am.

Elizabeth Craft (35:07)

Reading Full House by Janet Ivanovich.

Gretchen Rubin (35:11)

And I'm reading Living With a Life of Thomas Merton by Jim Forrest. And that's it for this episode of Happier Remember to try this at home. Put your money where your mouth is, but do it carefully. Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you. And how did you put your money where your mouth is and have you made mistakes? With this, we can all learn from each other.

Elizabeth Craft (35:33)

Thank you to our executive producer, Chuck Reed and everyone at Lemonada. Remember to subscribe subscribe to Lemonada Premium. You can listen completely ad free. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts. Or you can go to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app.

Gretchen Rubin (35:50)

And here's your rhyming reminder. If you liked what you heard, spread the word. We say it often, but we really do mean it.

Elizabeth Craft (35:57)

Until next week, I'm Elizabeth Craft.

Gretchen Rubin (35:59)

And I'm Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward. So Elizabeth, what do you think gives you more satisfaction having a clutter cleared closet or a clutter cleared office? Probably the closet, really?

Elizabeth Craft (36:23)

Because I think the closet really bothers Adam when he walks by it. We each have our own closet, but they don't have doors, so he sees it. So it makes me happy to know that he's not having that bad feeling whenever he walks by my closet.

Gretchen Rubin (36:39)

Gotcha from the Onward Project. Every year on the Happier Podcast, Elizabeth and I invite our listeners to join us on an annual challenge. This year we brought back the listener favorite and it is read 25 and 25 to read 25 minutes every day. In 2025, to take our reading challenge to the next level, Lizard and I went on our first ever Sisters Reading Retreat with no distraction, just stacks of books.

Elizabeth Craft (37:12)

Gretch I now want to do a reading retreat with Adam and Jack, but while we're away, our house would just be sitting there. What would be an even better move? Hosting our space on Airbnb. Our house could be bringing in extra income I could put toward our next vacation or more books. Whether it's a spare room, a backyard cottage, or your whole home while you're traveling, Airbnb makes it easy to turn your space into extra cash. You decide when to host and how much you charge. Plus, Airbnb offers tools to help you set up and support if you need it, your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much@airbnb.com host.