Ep. 579: Do You Have Trouble Making Plans with Friends? And How to Question a Questioner

Summary

Podcast Summary: Happier with Gretchen Rubin — Ep. 579

Title: Do You Have Trouble Making Plans with Friends? And How to Question a Questioner
Release Date: March 25, 2026
Hosts: Gretchen Rubin & Elizabeth Craft (The Onward Project)
Main Theme: Practical strategies to make social plans easier (the "anchor date"), and deep insights into communication with Questioners—one of Gretchen’s Four Tendencies.

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Episode Overview

This lively episode centers on two themes:

1. “Propose an Anchor Date” — a practical tip to overcome the nuisance of scheduling get-togethers.
2. How to Question a Questioner — exploring why those with the “Questioner” tendency can be difficult to question, and harvesting advice directly from listeners who identify as Questioners.

Other segments include listener stories (mixing up famous names, coffee table books), a Rebel Happiness Hack, reflections on grief, as well as the weekly Demerit and Gold Star.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Updates and Listener Responses (02:06–03:58)

• Gretchen and Elizabeth share humorous listener stories of mixing up famous names (e.g., Henry James vs. Henry Miller, Bob Seeger vs. Bob Saget).
• Paula, a volunteer, shares an inventive way to repurpose unwanted coffee table books: by selling individual matted pages, which sell better than the books themselves.

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2. Try This at Home: Propose an Anchor Date (03:58–10:09)

Key Idea: Scheduling is often the biggest hurdle to seeing friends or family, so instead of open-ended planning, propose a specific, non-movable date — an "anchor date" — to rally others around.

• Elizabeth’s Example:

  • She visited New York for a friend’s award event, had a fixed date, and was able to invite friends to gather on that day. One friend unexpectedly made it work, fitting in family visits with the trip.

    "You never know what's going to work for people. It's worth it just to propose the anchor date and let the chips fall, right?" — Elizabeth (05:00)

• Gretchen’s Example:

  • Her college roommate visiting NJ created an anchor date. Another friend from Boston was able to align archival research with the trip thanks to having a concrete date—despite initial assumptions she wouldn’t make the effort. A blizzard turned the short visit into an extended, memorable sleepover.

    "Something that can be done at any time often happens at no time. And this gives it a time." — Gretchen (07:34)

• Practical Impact:

  • An immovable anchor date removes the endless back-and-forth and internal debates.
  • Even for everyday meetups (lunch, coffee), suggesting a couple concrete dates both simplifies the process and makes plans more likely.

• Pet Peeve—Non-Invitation Invitations:

  • Statements like "We should get dinner" without specifics are not true invitations.
  • Both hosts agree it’s much more helpful to suggest times than to ask open-endedly, "When are you free?"

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3. Rebel Happiness Hack: "Track Totals, Not Just Streaks" (13:05–16:06)

• Arlene (Listener, Rebel tendency): Found it helpful to focus on total count of meditations, not just unbroken streaks, after losing a streak of 1,000+ days. This made resuming the habit easier and less discouraging.

  "I can call myself a meditator because I have logged over 1500 times, even if I never do it again." — Arlene, Listener Email (13:41)

• Gretchen’s Insight:
  Focus on consistency over perfection—tracking any metric can motivate better habits, and it’s wise to experiment with how you track.

  "There’s no right way or wrong way. It’s whatever works for you." — Gretchen (15:35)

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4. How to Question a Questioner (16:06–24:42)

Gretchen shares a common issue: Questioners (from her Four Tendencies framework) frequently resist answering questions, sometimes to an extreme.

• Listener Insights:

  • Liz (17:06): Reframes questions as statements for better results.

    "If I make a statement to him, I get more information than if I ask a question... it takes some practice to figure out how to frame these kinds of statements, but it's worth the effort."

  • Sheila (17:51): Says context is key; explaining why you're asking gets better results.

    "Sometimes coming up with an answer is so complicated, what with all the variables, that hearing the why in the question is a relief." — Sheila, Listener (18:20)

  • Sandy (19:07): Changing "What time is it?" to "Do you know what time it is?" yields a kinder response.

    "If I say, do you know what time it is? He’ll tell me nicely or say he doesn’t know. I can’t explain it, but it works like a charm." — Sandy, Listener (19:38)

  • Lauren (20:11): A questioner married to a questioner provides a deep-dive:

    • Questioners are always aware there may be a hidden agenda behind a question — an “ask behind the ask.”
    • They want to minimize unnecessary mental work and prepare for what’s really being asked.
    • Example from The Office: Michael asks Jim "Do you have plans tonight?" when he actually wants to invite him over. A questioner would sense the "trap".
    • At work, vague requests from a boss make employees nervous; being explicit with the reason for inquiry saves anxiety and speculation.
    • Suggests that including motivation behind requests is a "love letter" of respect, so questioners don’t have to overthink.

    "I am suspicious that there may be an underlying reason for your question. An ask behind the ask... letting me know the motivation behind your question right up front is a little love letter that lets me know that you don’t want me to overthink your query..." — Lauren, Listener (20:11–24:30)

• Takeaways:

  • Provide context and motivation for your question to get a response from a Questioner.
  • Reframe from direct question to statement or context-inclusive question.
  • Even small language shifts (“Do you know...?”) improve response.

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5. Listener Reflection: Coping with Grief (25:16–29:32)

• Listener Katie (a hospital chaplain) shares heartfelt advice on grief after the hosts shared the loss of their father:
  • Marking loved ones’ birthdays with small acts.
  • Keeping a running list of memories and mannerisms.
  • Remembering “grief is love with nowhere to go.”
  • Being gentle with oneself—timelines are unique.
  • Creating “beautiful boxes” for mementos to have a tangible connection and a boundary for keepsakes.

  “Grief is simply love with nowhere to go. You are grieving so much because you loved him so much. They go together. You can't have one without the other.” — Katie, Listener (28:20)

  • Gretchen found herself already assembling such a box.

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6. Demerit & Gold Star (29:57–32:48)

• Demerit (Gretchen): Brought watercolor materials to SXSW conference but only painted once; underestimates barriers (energy/timing/environment) to daily creative practices.

• Gold Star (Elizabeth): Awards Gretchen a gold star for being understanding when Elizabeth had to cancel her trip due to illness, not making her feel guilty or diminishing her mood.

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7. Resources & Reading (32:48–34:07)

• Highlighted organizational tools from the Happiness Project collection (Tackle Box sticky pads, Memento Keepsake Journal).
• Current Reads:
  • Elizabeth: Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel.
  • Gretchen: The Lion’s A Journey into the Heart of Narnia by Rowan Williams.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Scheduling Wisdom:

  “Scheduling is life because scheduling a lot of times is the hurdle that we have to overcome if we're going to make plans.” — Gretchen (04:12)

• On Anchors & Flexibility:

  “It's helpful when there's, like, an anchor that can't be moved, because then there isn't all of that back and forth and internal debate...” — Elizabeth (07:17)

• Life Insights:

  “Something that can be done at any time often happens at no time.” — Gretchen (07:34)

• Questioner Communication:

  “If you can build [the reason] into the question, you're going to have more success.” — Gretchen (18:48)

• Habit Motivation:

  “There’s no right way or wrong way. It’s whatever works for you.” — Gretchen (15:35)

• On Grief:

  “Grief is simply love with nowhere to go.” — Katie, Listener Email (28:20)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:06 — Funny listener stories (artist mix-ups, coffee table books)
• 03:58 — Anchor Date: Try this at home
• 13:05 — Rebel Happiness Hack: tracking totals vs. streaks
• 16:06 — How to question a Questioner: Listener strategies & psychology
• 25:16 — Coping with grief: Listener advice
• 29:57 — Demerit: Not sticking with watercolor habit
• 32:12 — Gold Star: Being understanding when plans change
• 33:48 — Resources/reading recommendations

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The Takeaway

To make plans happen, propose a fixed "anchor date" instead of endless back-and-forth. When engaging with Questioners, share the context or motivation behind questions—clarity and specificity open the door. And in habits, relationships, or grief, small concrete adjustments (like tracking differently or honoring memories physically) can make a profound difference.

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For more: Visit happiercast.com/579, follow Gretchen on social @gretchenrubin, and share your anchor date stories!

Transcript

[Elizabeth Craft]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast where we talk about how to be happier. This week we'll talk about why it's useful to propose an anchor date, and we will hear from questioners themselves about how to ask them questions if you want to get an answer. Surprisingly, this is a real challenge. I'm Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits and human nature. I'm in my little home office in New York City and joining me today from Los Angeles is my sister Elizabeth Craft, who is having some issues with her voice.

[Elizabeth Craft]

That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer living in la. And yes, Gretch, whenever I get a cold, it go straight to my voice. So hopefully I'll hold up.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, People talk about an Achilles heel and you definitely have an Achilles throat.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, I do.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Before we launch in, we got a few updates. So in the March episode of More Happier, I talked about how as a family we had this issue between Raymond Carver and Raymond Chandler and Jennifer wrote, I could so relate to your conversation about mixing up artists. I have always confused Henry Miller and Henry James. It wasn't until I was recently and now I'm in my 50s, reading something about Edith Wharton and her friendship with Henry James that I realized she was Very likely not to have also been friends with Henry Miller. So that's very funny. Henry James. Henry Miller. I get it.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. And Laura says the story about mixing up the Raymond writers immediately made me think of the time years ago I mixed up Bob Seeger and Bob Saget. My friend's parents said they were going to see Bob Seeger at Madison Square Garden, and I was really surprised. He's funny, but his jokes are really dirty, I said. And we went back and forth for a while until I realized I was getting the Bobs confused. Knowing them, it made a lot more sense. They were going to a Bob Seeger concert.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh, that is so funny. I totally get it. Paula responded to a conversation that we had about coffee table books. Like, I love coffee table books, but kind of puzzled by coffee table books. And she wrote, I volunte at Friends of the Library used bookstore. In my city, we get a lot of coffee table books donated from people cleaning out their family's bookshelves, especially after their passing. They don't sell very well. We price them at $1. One of our creative volunteers took some pages out of one book, matted them and slipped them into cellophane sleeves. They are flying off the shelves at $5 each. I know it's hard to cut up a book, but what a great way to enjoy some of the best pictures. So, yeah, I mean, if no one's going to appreciate them in a book, I think that's a great idea as make good use of them.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah, love that idea.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So this week, our try this at home suggestion is when you're trying to plan a get together or a visit, propose an anchor date.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. I love this. And Gretchen, this is something that sort of happened with me recently.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes. And this is in the family of conversations that we keep having over and over about the value of seeing people, the value of doing things in real life, and the ongoing nuisance of scheduling. I have to remind myself schedul as life because scheduling a lot of times is the hurdle that we have to overcome if we're going to make plans. And Elizabeth, you recently had an experience that got us thinking about the value of an anchor date.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. So I was coming to New York because a friend of mine, Melissa, was getting an award from Columbia where we went to school. And it was on a certain date and that was the only date of the award. So I had to be there that day. So I was able to say to people, hey, I am in town. This date, can anyone have dinner? And it worked out really well because no, everyone isn't gonna be there, but at least it gives something for people to rally around. And you know what's interesting, Gretchen, about a date like this is when I knew I was coming, I didn't think my friend Gage, for instance, would be able to come see me because he lives in Williamstown. And it didn't even cross my mind, frankly, that he would just come in to have din. But I threw it out to him. And shockingly, he came because what he did was he said, well, I'll drop my son off at my daughter's on the Upper west side so they can visit and then I'll come down and see you and we'll spend the night in New Jersey. And it all came together. So you never know what's going to work for people. It's worth it just to propose the anchor date and let the chips fall, right?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Because just like the thing with Gage, you didn't know that he has kind of this side agenda, which is like, it'd be nice for this brother and sister to see each other. So, like, I'll wrap that all together. Sometimes something that seems really inconvenient and implausible to you as the inviter, well, maybe they have a reason why it works for them. So the way this came up in my life is my roommate from college was coming to visit her in laws in New Jersey, and so she said, I'm gonna be in New Jersey. Can we get together? So, so then I emailed our other roommate who lives in Boston, and said, hey, we're gonna be together. Is there any reason that you could come too? Because again, we have an anchor date, because this is when my friend is gonna be with her in laws and in the tri state area. And it turned out that our other friend had archival research that she needed to do in New York. And so she was able to say, like, well, I need to do it at some time, so I might as well do it then. And so she was able again. Once there was an anchor. She had her own reasons to make it work. Even though you would have said, like, oh, is it worth it to just come for one night all the way from Boston? I might have thought, oh, that just doesn't seem plausible. But then there was a blizzard, so it ended up being an extended sleepover for all of us. So it turned out to be quite a long visit. But when we were planning it, it seemed like it would be a pretty short visit, but because it worked for everybody and the anchor actually dragged everybody into it much more than we thought, yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And it's helpful when there's, like, an anchor that can't be moved, because then there isn't all of that back and forth and internal debate about, should I move this, Should I not move it? You just know I can't move this date. This is the anchor date. Whoever can join, join.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right. It's that old. My secret of adulthood, something that can be done at any time often happens at no time. And this gives it a time. And like you say, it's not a flexible time. And in a way that things easier because it's not adjustable. It's not like, oh, my feelings are hurt because you guys can't just wait one more week so I can be there? And it's like, but if you can be there, then two people can't. And how do we negotiate that? So this is just a good example of how scheduling is life. You know, we just got to get into this stuff. Yes, you and I had this, come up with people who are traveling, but I think that it also comes up with an anchor day. When you're doing ordinary plans, like having lunch, having breakfast, having coffee, you're having dinner, I find that it really helps to throw out a couple dates and say, by chance, do any of these work for you? Let me give you an anchor. And then they can sort of check those dates. And then if it doesn't work, then scheduling is life, and you have to keep trying to schedule. But I feel like I always try as the inviter to do the kind of annoying work of saying, looking at my schedule and saying, maybe this could work, maybe that could work. And I always say to Jamie, if you say to me, it seems like if you say something like, oh, we should definitely make a plan for dinner, that's not a real invitation.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Right.

[Gretchen Rubin]

That's just like, oh, I, I, I express the desire to see you without any kind of effort put into it. I don't know about you, Elizabeth. How do you feel about it if somebody says to you, tell me some dates that work?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, it's annoying. It happens all the time, especially in a work situation for me, because I'm always having to set up meetings. And there's nothing I love more than getting an email with a list of possible meeting times. Just throwing out dates is a huge hassle.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, I feel like having those anchors, the person who provides those, then you move from, move on from there. Right. Whereas otherwise it's, yeah, they're like, when are you free? It's like, that's such a hard question. To answer for you because you're like, well, on balance. But if that's the only time you could do it, I could move the. It just gets very complicated.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Exactly.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, I think this idea of an anchor date, it's just another thing to try to help ourselves make plans. Right? I mean, you know, get up, get out, see people in real life, have fun. It's always worth it. It's always worth the effort. But like, how do we make it as easy as possible? So let us know if you do try an anchor date and how proposing an anchor time works for you. Let us know on Instagram threads, TikTok, Facebook. Drop us an [e-mail] or as always, you can go to the show Notes and this is happiercast.com 579 okay, coming

[Elizabeth Craft]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

The Defender engineered to meet challenges head on so you can explore with confidence. An icon reimagined designed for a new generation of explorers. Choose from the Defender 90, 110 or 130, seating up to eight adventurers with a tough, tested exterior, a modern and functional interior, and intelligent tech like 3D surround cameras and the Pivi Pro infotainment system. Every journey feels limitless because like you, the Defender is capable of great things. Build your defender [e-mail] okay, this is a hack that comes from a rubble, but I think that it has wider application. So Arlene says, I love a streak, and we talk about that all the time. Many, many people like streaks. That's a tool that many people find useful, she writes. I love a streak. I had a streak of over 1,000 days of meditating. Wow. I am a rebel. And for some unremembered reason I stopped. Yet the app I used also kept the total number of times which was larger than my streak. Recently I restarted a new streak, yet I am more focused on increasing my total than just my streak. It gives the Rebel another option to do what they know is good for them, yet challenging. I can call myself a meditator because I have logged over 1500 times, even if I never do it again. So this is an interesting thing to think about, which is the stakes can get really high and then people can. If they break their streak, they get very discouraged. So I think Arlene is really right to say, well, you can look at times in a row and that's a very valuable way to keep a habit going for sure. But you can also look at total times and that's also very valuable. Think of you in orange theory. Even a 10 day streak would have been really, really hard.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Right.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But keeping a track of the total is another way to get yourself to stay consistent.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, for me, anything that I'm keeping track of, I do better with. There's no question. Whatever the method is, I definitely do better.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, it's interesting that's very widespread observation because research shows that anytime we're tracking something, we tend to do a better job of it. If you're tracking spending, you spend better. If you track how often you lose your temper, you lose your temper less. Just tracking or monitoring is a magical tool because even if you're not consciously trying to change, you tend to move in a better direction just by the fact that you're more aware of what you're doing. But I think this is good to think of. Like, you can say you're tracking or you're monitoring, but there are different ways to do it. It reminds me of writing because, Elizabeth, some writers who want to set themselves challenges, like daily amounts, some do it by words, like how many words are they going to write? Some do by pages and some do it by time. And I think there's sort of pros and cons of different ones, but there's no right way or wrong way. It's whatever works for you. And so I just thought she was really wise to think, oh, as a rebel, this is a way that I can get myself to do what I want.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. And 1500 days of meditation is a lot.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Absolutely. And by the way, if you don't know what we're talking about with upholders, questioners, obligers and rebels, take the quiz. Gretchenrubin.com quiz. You will learn about the tendencies. You will learn a lot about yourself. But so one of the things that's really puzzling about the tendencies, a puzzling phenomenon is that questioners often don't like to answer questions. And the irony of this is apparent to literally everybody. And I'm married to a questioner, and this is very, very noticeable with Jamie. He really will not answer questions to the degree that, like, when I say what he does, he sounds like a big jerk, even though he is the most delightful and loving person. But like, if I say, what time are we leaving for dinner? What kind of food does the restaurant serve? Good food. Like, he just doesn't like to answer Questions.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So we threw it out to questioners. Questioners, why do you do this? And how can we communicate with you more effectively so that you will answer our questions? And we got a lot of responses from question.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. This comes from Liz. She says in response to the listener with a question, her husband. In conversation with my questioner husband, I find that if I make a statement to him, I get more information than if I ask a question. Looks like you had a bad day. Gets a descriptive response of his day. If I ask, how was your day? He will respond, it was okay. If I say, I bet that which could be anything, made you feel sad. And he will respond with more detail about an event and tell me how he really felt about it. It takes some practice to figure out how to frame these kinds of statements, but it's worth the effort. Well, that is fascinating, Gretchen. We've never talked about that.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It's just the mere fact that it is not a question.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

You know, they don't like a question, so she just makes a statement and it's like, agree, disagree. I think that's absolutely fascinating. Sheila says, I'm a questioner when I hear, what time are you coming home? That's probably an easy answer because I have set appointment times, but maybe I plan to stop to pick up prescriptions or to do a buy nothing pickup. I could postpone that if my wife has a business meeting to run off to and I need to be home with the kids. If she's just curious, then my answer will be different. Sometimes coming up with an answer is so complicated, what with all the variables that hearing the why in the question is a relief. Or if she asked me to get something for her when we're both sitting and working. Well, if she's feeling tired or crampy, of course, but otherwise I may want to wait until I'm ready to take a break so I don't lose my flow. Context helps. So what I think Sheila's getting at is that questioners are like, why do you want to know? Yes, like, if you can build that into the question, that you're going to have more success.

[Elizabeth Craft]

It's like you always use the example of picking up turkey on the way home because Eleanor has a field trip and needs turkey sandwich.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, and coming up, our questioner listener, Lauren, is going to reference that very anecdote. So stay tuned.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Sandy said, I'm so glad you discussed questioners today because I've been wanting to tell you something I've discovered that helps me question my husband. He's either a questioner who tips to uphold her or an upholder who tips to questioner. He is, without a doubt, neither an obliger nor a rebel. I'm an obliger. This mainly has to do with asking him for information. If I ask him what time it is, for instance, or what's the weather today? Chances are he'll answer with an annoyed, I don't know. But if I say, do you know what time it is? He'll tell me nicely or say he doesn't know. I can't explain it, but it works like a charm. Thanks for the podcast. I never miss an episode. Same for Happier in Hollywood. Well, thank you, Sandy.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I mean, what a subtle difference.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Do you know what time it is? I cannot wait to try these all out on Jamie.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Like, do you know what time it is? Because then it'd be like, yes, it's three o'. Clock. Whereas if I said, what time is it? Yeah, like, do you know what kind of food that this restaurant serves?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Fascinating, right?

[Gretchen Rubin]

That's interesting. Okay. But maybe that goes also to questioners. They often like to teach. They like to have the information. So maybe that goes to their desire to be the one who's very well informed. Because a lot of times I've heard from other questioners that they don't like this question. If they feel like you're questioning their judgment, they're like, oh my gosh, I did all the research. I don't want to have to explain to you why I'm making this choice anyway. So maybe that goes to that aspect of questioners. Okay. This comes from Lauren. She says, I am a questioner married to a questioner, so I feel like I might be able to provide some insight. But one major reason I often respond to questions with a question is that I am suspicious that there may be an underlying reason for your question. An ask behind the ask. By probing your inquiry a bit, I am trying to cut to the quick of the real question as soon as possible. It may be because as a questioner, I like to always have a plan. If I don't know the real reason behind your question, I start making plan A and plan B and contingency plan C, and I don't know which one will be relevant until I understand what you really want to know. Before I go through all that unnecessary mental effort, I'd rather just clarify what you're really asking. Then I may want to answer your initial question differently based on what your real question is. Okay. She gives an example from the office. And of course I know exactly the scene that she's talking about because I know the office so well, and it's a perfect example. Okay, so in the dinner party episode of the Office, Michael asks Jim if he has plans tonight. Jim says no because Michael told the office they'd be working late. Then Michael conveniently calls corporate and gets the office off the hook. Armed with Jim's admission that he doesn't have plans, he then asks Jim over for dinner, and Jim and Pam feel obliged to accept. Michael's question was, do you have plans tonight? Michael's real question was, do you have any reason you can't come over for dinner tonight? A better questioner may have sensed the trap and not have answered the initial question so directly would have said, why are you asking the question that vexes spouses of questioners everywhere? That would have been a smarter choice. As it is, Jim and Pam both have to pay for this oversight. So then she gives some more common examples. Your boss sends you an email that says, can you stop by my office at the end of the day? You spend all day fretting at your desk cataloging every mistake you've made over the last quarter and rehearsing. How are you going to break the news to your spouse that you got fired right before Christmas? When the time comes, you take a deep breath and knock on your boss's door. Oh, thanks for stopping by. I've had this wedding gift for you for a couple of weeks and I keep forgetting to bring it by your desk. Desk. Congratulations again. This is a real life example that happened to my co worker. I spent all day trying to talk her down from worrying she was getting fired, but she was sure that was the case. Why else would her boss ask her over over email to stop by when he never had in the past? If it was acceptable in the office culture for her to respond to him, sure. Why are you asking? It would have saved her a lot of unnecessary angst. Then she references several examples from the podcast. Okay, what time are we leaving? I'm asking because I want to make sure I give myself enough time to get ready in the morning. Is a very different question than what time are we leaving? I'm asking because I think you always don't plan enough time for us to get to the airport. And if you say anything later than 1:30pm Right now, I'm going to blow my top. I don't really feel like rehashing an old argument at the moment, so I try to get to the heart of your question. Why Are you asking? Okay, and here we have the reference to the turkey. Can you pick up turkey at the store? I need to make Eliza a sack lunch for her field trip is much different from can you pick up turkey at the store? I haven't looked through the fridge to find out if we have any leftovers for lunch, so I'd rather just spend money on fresh food when we have perfectly good soup, chicken and salad fixings available. Hence, why do you need it? These are played up a bit for drama's sake. My husband and I aren't going around constantly suspicious that the other one is trying to passively aggressively pick a fight. But I do like to know what I'm getting into when I answer direct question. And I think it's respectful and kind to just be clear and upfront and instead of approaching the topic from the side or beating around the bush, letting me know the motivation behind your question right up front is a little love letter that lets me know that you don't want me to overthink your query and get riled up about what might be coming next. Relax. I just want to know what time our flight is because I'm curious whether we'll get to see the sun rise in the air. Well, then I'm happy to tell you. So I think that gives us a lot of insight into the question or mentality.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, it makes me laugh so much and I have to say, that work example, I think we have all experienced that, either ourselves or with a coworker time and again. That's very common and I think it's

[Gretchen Rubin]

a good that just kind of side hack is that if you are the boss, beware that if you don't usually ask questions like that, people will often jump to all kinds of conclusions. So the kind thing is to say I have a little gift for you or you know, I have something fun or, you know, characterize it in some way so somebody's not anxious.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. Okay, Gretch, now we have a listener answer. And this is about us having recently lost our dad. Katie says, I've been a fan of yours since the very beginning. Much love and appreciation to both of you. Well, thank you, Katie. I'm so in awe of your newest episode regarding your beloved dad and his passing. Thank you for sharing your dad and your grief with us. It's truly such a beautiful gift. Our society is so weird about grief and it's truly the most universal experience. We don't seem to talk about much. I'm a hospital chaplain resident specializing in oncology and end of life care and director of a grief support group. My entryway into this work was losing my mom in October 2021 to cancer, my grandma, three weeks to Covid, and four babies since then. I can empathize and relate to so much of what you shared. The exhaustion. I liken it to a tab in your brain, open and processing the grief in your subconscious. 24 7. Shock. Confusion. The extremely weird nature of time. Not wanting to talk on the phone, wanting to hear your beloved's voice and not being able to bear it. The constant uneasiness, the surrealness of them not being here with us anymore.

[Gretchen Rubin]

For the first year, I would feel a deep uneasiness and guilt and realize it was because I hadn't talked to my mom in a while and I would think I needed to and then remember I couldn't. Each time it was like my brain and heart were slamming into the same brick wall over and over. I would have to remind myself I saw her die. I held her hand. I was at her funeral. I saw her casket lowered. Shock is a big element of loss, particularly with a shorter window of knowing it's coming. A few things I'd love to share with you 1. I remember my mom each month on the day of her birth, the 24th, not the day of her death. I call it Mom Day and I do something she would do make peanut butter cookies for someone, send a card in the mail, sing one of her favorite hymns, or do something for my dad. 2. I recommend keeping a running list of things you think about your dad, whether big or small. Some of mine include how my parents used to sit at the kitchen table and pass sections of the newspaper back and forth. The way my mom would make a small, contented sigh as she hugged me super tight. Or how at the end of her life, the only question she could answer accurately due to the delirium was what's your daughter's name? Katie Joy. 3. Grief is simply love with nowhere to go. You are grieving so much because you loved him so much. They go together. You can't have one without the other. 4. Be gentle and patient with yourself. Grief lasts so much longer than we can imagine before we experience profound grief. What I do know in my own experience is that the waves of grief start slowing down. They feel less violent and they hit less frequently. I still feel them, but I'm no longer afraid of drowning. Grief ambushes still hit all the time, but I recover more quickly. 5. When it gets tough, narrow your horizon. One day, one hour, one minute at a time. When things are hardest. 6. Grief anniversary. Habits and rituals can change over time or from year to year, depending on how you feel. Don't put yourself or others in a box. And finally, I keep a beautiful box for each my mom, grandma, and babies, where I put anything and everything I want to look at and remember them by. It gives me something to look at, touch, and go through when I miss them. And it also gives me a space parameter for tiny sentimental things like bookmarks, letters, condolence cards, and mementos. And when I get rid of something sentimental or painful, I take a photo of it. I have a separate photo album associated with my mom, grandma, and babies. There's so much insight here. And, like, practical things, loving things, good reminders. This is really, really helpful.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. I'm sure Katie is very comforting to the people she helps at the hospital.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes. In fact, I just gathered all my mementos exactly the kinds of things that she was talking about and was thinking, what size box do I want? And I want something beautiful, and I want it to be big, but not too big. So I sort of evolved into that. I'm glad to hear her mention it as one of her things.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. I love that. Okay, thank you, Katie. Gretch, coming up, you have a watercolor demerit. But first, this break. All right, Gretch, we're back with demerits and gold stars, and it's your turn this week for happiness demerits.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. So I was at south by Southwest for several days, and Elizabeth was very sad because you were supposed to be there too, and you weren't there, so we missed our sisterly adventure. But I still enjoy a big conference. So I brought my watercolor things there. I was like, oh, I'm gonna have so much time. Like, I'll be, you know, I can go to the hotel or I can take it outside. And I only did it one time, and, you know, I want to do it every day, and I really do want to try to do it almost every day. And it's just this thing where I think, like, oh, I'll come back from dinner with, you know, I'm having dinner with all these people, I'll come back and I'll do it. And then I'm just too tired.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I realize what's happening is if I'm really not tired, I think I should be reading or writing or doing intellectual work. And then when I'm tired, I don't want to watercolor.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Right.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I also feel like I should do it at the end of the day. I'm such a morning person. Like, my nights, I don't have that much energy. And watercolor does take effort for me. It's not like I find it. I don't go into it thinking, like, oh, this will be relaxing and fun. I think this will be interesting and challenging.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Right.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And, you know, and it's kind of fiddly. Cause I have to, like, be in the right place and all set up and have all my materials. So I just. I'm still really committed to the idea of watercoloring just about every day, but I am still not realistic about the circumstances that I need in order to actually put a brush to paper. Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I have to say, if I had thought of you at south by Southwest, the last thing I would picture you doing is watercoloring.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But on my reading retreat, I watercolored, remember?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah, but that's different.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, I guess that's. It is different. Right? It was more relaxed. It was more calm.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

We weren't, like, running around in the same way. Yeah, no, it just. It wasn't the vibe, but I could have done it first thing in the morning, for instance, you know, if I had thought about it. So, anyway, this is the idea of, like, give yourself a demerit as, like, a focusing tool. Right. Like, now that I'm officially kind of registered that this is an issue, I'm gonna try to. You know, this is me wanting to have the life of a monk. If everything in my life happened at exactly the same time every day, I'm sure I could slot it in easily. It's that every day is different, you know? And I'm like, yes. Can I do it at 4 o'? Clock? That feels too early, but maybe I should do it at 4 anyway. I need to figure it out. Anyway, that's my demerit. Elizabeth, what's your gold star?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, this is also south by Southwest related. Gretch, my gold star is to you for being so under understanding about my illness. I was supposed to be there with you, and I had to cancel. I was so bummed. But you were such a great sport of just not making me feel bad about it whatsoever. Not making me feel like it was gonna hurt your good time. So it was sad that I had to cancel and I had a lot of fomo, but at least you didn't make me also feel guilty about. About it. So thank you. Gold star.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, I mean, to me, it was like, I knew you would have come if you could, and so thank you. I will take that. Gold star, the resource for this week, if you are trying to get organized, you know, it's like spring a lot of times people get that organizing itched in the springtime. There are a few tools in the happiness project collection that can help. The tackle box, which is this super fun collection of sticky pads to help you tackle a project. Get it Tackle box. Tackle box with like to do lists. Ta da list today. Lists all those things. It's super fun. And then there's also a memento keepsake journal. This is based on something that our grandparents gave us when we were little that I have treasured my whole life, where it's basically sleeves, I think 12 of them. So you can keep menus, invitations, tickets, anything that's flat, you can keep it nicely organized. So it's perfect if you want to do every year for a child's school or every family vacation for a couple years or whatever. It's a way to easily store and organize things that are flat because you have photos and a photo album. But what do you do with an invitation if you want to keep an invitation? So that's the memento keepsake journal. So they're both fun. Elizabeth, what are we reading? What are you reading?

[Elizabeth Craft]

I am reading more Wolf Hall.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, I am reading the Lion's A Journey into the Heart of Narnia by Rowan Williams. And that's it for this episode of Happier. Remember to try this at home. Propose an anchor date. Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Thank you to our executive producer, Chuck Reed and everyone at Lemonada.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And here's your rhyming reminder. You know, we sincerely mean it. If you like the show, tell others. You know.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Until next week, I'm Elizabeth Craft.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I'm Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward. So, Elizabeth, Chuck, many years ago, I think for a live event told us about throat coat because all the musicians use throat coat to keep their voices strong. Have you been drinking your throat coat?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, I went out and bought two boxes and I have been drinking it non stop.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, it helps.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Hi, Gretchen, Craig Robinson and my little sister Michelle here.

[Gretchen Rubin]

We host a new podcast called IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. We know you're the queen of giving advice, so we wanted to get a few tips from you.

[Elizabeth Craft]

You know, Gretchen, a lot of our

[Dr. Nicole Lapera]

listeners are going through some major life changes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

What advice do you have for folks who are trying to stay grounded in

[Dr. Nicole Lapera]

the middle midst of major life transitions?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Craig and Michelle, I am so happy to be talking to you. Here are a few questions that might help us gain perspective. So consider questions like this what activities take up my time but are not particularly useful or stimulating for me? Do I spend a lot of time on something that's important to someone else but is not very important to me? If I could magically change one habit in my life, what would I choose? And here's a question. Would I like to have more time in solitude, restorative solitude, or would I like to have more time with friends? You know, just thinking about questions like this can help us start to figure out how we might make our lives happier. With greater self knowledge, we're better able to make hard decisions that reflect ourselves, our own nature, our own interests, our own values. In my own case, I have found that the more my life reflects my nature, the happier I get and the more grounded I feel when I'm going through a period of major change or transition. For more great advice, search for IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. Wherever you get podcast, you can listen to Issa Rae on letting go of certain friendships Kiki Palmer on why disappointment is actually the key to career success Seth and Lauren Rogan on caring for aging parents and so many more.