← Happier with Gretchen Rubin
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- [00:11]
A
Hello, and welcome to More Happier, a podcast where we get happier. I'm Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness and human nature, and one thing I'm often asked about is how to deal with conflict in close relationships. Research shows that relationships are a key to a happy life, but for many people, they're also a big source of frustration. Why do my sweetheart and I keep having the same fight? Why does parenting this child feel so hard, even when I'm trying my best? In this episode, we're bringing together some of our most useful conversations about how to ease conflict with the people closest to us using one of the tools that is most helpful, the Four Tendencies. The Four Tendencies is my personality framework that divides people into four categories based on how they respond to internal and external expectations. If you want to find out about your tendency, take the quiz@happiercast.com fourtendencies or just go to GretchenRubin.com quiz we'll hear questions and tips from listeners on using the four Tendencies to navigate conflict with their sweetheart. But first, we'll start with a conversation I had with parenting expert Dr. Becky Kennedy on her podcast, Good Inside. It turns out that how we frame expectations can make a big difference in how children respond, and that can really change the dynamic between parent and child. Here's Dr. Becky.
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B
There's so many things I want to jump into. One of the things I love and I love about your site and I love the way you profile also other people and you do this in the book is you don't have like, judgment. You're not like, everyone should be this.
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A
Absolutely.
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B
Like, we have our tendencies. There are pros and cons. And to me, actually, I often say this to friends. Like, my favorite adult friends are just the people who like, know themselves and they can kind of have levity with themselves. They can talk about that. Like, obviously I believe we can change, but to some degree it's like, hey, this is me. And. And I'm also curious about myself and non defensive. But. But I love that your book takes that approach which for everyone listening, you should know there's like no shame. Like, you will actually just be like, this is really useful as a framework and then set of strategies. No one's trying to change me. I'm just gonna become like a more effective me, you know?
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A
Well, absolutely. And that's one thing I tell people because people are like, well, what's the best tendency or the most successful tendency? I'm like, it's not that one tendency is better than the others because they all have strengths. And weaknesses. And the strengths are the weaknesses. Right? They go together always.
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B
Always.
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A
But it's the people who know themselves. And they're like, well, I know what I need to succeed or I know what is likely to trip me up. And therefore I'm gonna set up my circumstances and my schedul my surroundings in a way that's gonna help me achieve my aim. And one of the things that's nice about the tendencies is I think a lot of times people feel very, they feel very discouraged or they feel like, why is it that other people can be adults? And like I just can't. Like everybody else can just get up and go for a run every morning. Why can't I do that? Like what's wrong with me? And it's like, oh, a lot of people are in the same boat. There's. There's so many solutions that people have come up with. You do not need to change. This is just a thing. There's good aspects to it. There's bad aspect. And now you can focus on like how to move forward to get what you want instead of feeling like there's something wrong with you.
- [03:29]
B
Love that. How to harness. So let's jump into one of these tendencies. The obligers. I hear about this group a lot. I hear about a lot of from moms. I have the PTA meeting, I have my kids soccer practice. I have carpools planned out in my calendar to the wazoo and forever. I've told myself one day a week I want to take a walk around my neighborhood without my kid or I want to meet a friend. Like there's something for me and why can't I do it? And I feel like this might be obliger. Ask from your framework. Yeah, like can you walk through this a little bit or how have kind of some of the things you figured out could help this person harness their, their strengths to get what they want.
- [04:10]
A
Yes. So what you described is like exactly what obligers will express. They're. They often say, I can't draw boundaries. I'm really bad at self. I come through for other people. But why can't I like take time for myself or whatever it might be? So the key to remember is that you need to create outer accountability even for an inner expectation. So you can't think about self care or priorities or putting yourself first. You have to think about, well, how can I create outer accountability? So let's say you want to go for a walk in the park. How would you create outer accountability for that? You might go With a friend who'll be disappointed if you don't show up. You might take your dog, who's going to be really disappointed because it's a highlight of your dog's day. You might think of your duty to your future self. If you come to the end of the year and you haven't been doing that, you're gonna be really disappointed with yourself. And maybe you're not gonna have those benefits that you would have had in terms of mood regulation, energy, being out in the sunshine, all these things. You might think of your duty to be a role model for someone else. I wanna show my children, I wanna show the people around me what it looks like to take time for yourself. And if I don't do it, then they're gonna think, talk away. But actions are louder than words and I don't see you doing that. I need to model. You talk a lot about modeling behavior. I need to model the behavior that I'm talking about. So in these ways you create outer accountability even for an inner expectation. And sometimes obligers feel like it's somehow weak that they shouldn't like, need to rely on outer accountability. I'm like, you're the biggest group. There's a ton of people who need outer accountability. Like there's nothing wrong with that. Just figure out what works for you. Because some people, for some people, taking a class is a really great way to get outer accountability. For some people that doesn't work. So you really have to tinker it to yourself. But realizing that the outer accountability is what is needed even for an inner
- [05:48]
B
expectation, you know, there's two things that come to mind. Number one is there's no morality. There's no morality here. Like there's no better, there's no morality. Something I say to parents a lot when they're stuck with their kids. And it just made me think of this is the solution is always in the problem, right? Like my kid is always saying poop, poop at the table. And I'm like, stop. Well what if I just told them, let's go to the bathroom and say poop, poop, poop. Feel free. Say it all you want, I'll say it too. And then we'll get that out of our system. Like the solution is in the problem. And what you're saying is if someone's saying, my problem is I can't engage in self care, Like I'm so good at doing things for other people and bad for myself. Like I love the light bulb of like wait a second, I just Heard what I'm good at. So maybe that's my solution. The impact on my body, whether I take a walk because I've just said I deserve it, or I take a walk because I told my friend I wanted to and I made them text me to get it done, that's great. Go, walk is the walk. My body doesn't, like, feel that different. So it's just a means to an end. And the idea that you're saying, like, obligers have natural ability, a tendency, ability to get certain things done, let's use that to your benefit.
- [07:04]
A
Absolutely. And, you know, so my type is upholder. That's the one that readily meets outer and inner expectations. And there's pros to that and cons to that. But we often give each other bad advice because we're coming from our own tendency. So it used to be that obligers would say to me things like, oh, well, now I exercise because I know I need to stay healthy for my kids. And I would be like, well, don't do it for your kids, do it for you, because this is important for you. You don't need to bring somebody else into it. But I realized that's actually a really good pattern of thinking for obligers. That's really helping them to do something for themselves because they're invoking that outer accountability. So who am I to tell somebody that what they're doing is wrong? It works for them. And so again, it's like, people are often being like, well, you shouldn't do that, or you should do that. It's like, well, maybe you should or maybe you shouldn't, because you might be coming from a very different place.
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B
You know, I think that's pointing out, like, a really big blind spot for me too, because, okay, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, reveal. I am also an upholder.
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A
I kind of thought that. I have to say, I suspected that I.
- [08:05]
B
You know what? I feel like I part. I have parts of others. I don't have that big of a part of an obliger. I'm gonna be honest, that part's not that big. Used to be. But I definitely have a part of me. Maybe that's not a rebel, but I definitely have a questioning part of me. But, you know, I was actually talking about with my husband, he's like that motto, discipline is my freedom. He's like, becky, that is literally you. Like, that is exactly you. Right? So I talk about self care a lot. And to me, one of the key things our kids need is a parent who feel Sturdy. And that to me always involves tapping into our non caregiver parts. If the only part of us left is caregiving of others, that always gets in our way, ironically, of being a good caregiver because we're so overwhelmed and depleted, etc. And one things I say a lot is people will say to me, I go out to dinner with my friends because it's really good for my kids to see. And, and hearing you say this, I think my natural reaction would be like, I. I'd feel like I need to motivate them. Like what? Like, you just deserve dinner. Like you just, you know. But I love what you're saying. That's like very Becky centric. Like, okay, Becky, you're just speaking to yourself like you're not speaking to a mirror. You're speaking to someone different from you. And maybe respect that this is their framework and that's useful. And like, who am I to change that narrative?
- [09:19]
A
Well, and when I was writing about happiness, like, I was always struck by people who would just something that would seem easy to me would be a struggle for them, or they would have a completely different approach to it. And then finally I started to see that there were these patterns. And once you see these patterns, you see them in the office, they're often very obvious with children at a very young age. Like, they're really kind of easy to spot once you notice the pattern. And so what's great about that is that then you can harness that in order to achieve an aim, whether for yourself or for somebody else, instead of getting lost in this thing of like, well, one person's right or one person has the better way. It's like, well, we can all learn from each other, but maybe if this doesn't work for you, what are some other ways to try it?
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B
So let's move to kids. Let's, you know, I don't know your kid. It's like, why do I have to. Why do I have to brush my teeth every night? Why do I have to, like, you know, I'm knocking at cavities, right? Like, we have these like, difficult moments. I'm wondering if kids, if those are questioners. Like, I want to do what I want to do and you better convince me, you know, or if those are rebels or what. Like, let's walk through some like, difficult parenting moments with kids in terms of the tendencies.
- [10:25]
A
Yes. So if you have an upholder child, these children are pretty easy. And like, they are the ones that are gonna be focused on getting their homework on time and like, feeding their Fish. One thing you will see kind of negative that can be negatives for upholders is they can get, like, really uptight. Like, the teacher says that I have to read for half an hour tonight. And, yeah, we went to see Grandma and Grandpa and it's 11:30 at night, but I need to read because my teacher says I have to. It's hard for them sometimes understand, like, when, like, rules need to be adjusted.
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B
The teacher will never know, but.
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A
So you as an adult need to, like, frame it. But the thing is, you don't want to say things like, the teacher will never know. That's not reassuring to an upholder. An upholder is like, it's. We are respecting, like, the expectation and say, like, the teacher will understand that if you were. If you were exhausted, you will not be able to learn in class tomorrow. I promise you that. If you ask your teacher what she would think you should do, she would say, get a good night's sleep. And then you'll be, you know, you want to frame it in, like, what, what resonates with them. Because a rebel parent might be like, oh, it's great. Like, who cares? Like, let's stick it to the teacher. And it's like, to an upholder, they'd be like, oh, my gosh, I can. You know, they can't handle that. And then they can also sometimes be like, it's hard for them to, like, if schedules change, they can be rigid even as children, certainly as adults, I'll say that as an upholder. So for them, they're the ones that are pretty easy to manage in terms of, like, meeting outer and inner expectations. Because that's, that's. You want to make sure that they don't sort of get too hard on
- [11:49]
B
themselves, too rigid and too hard.
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Too rigid and too hard on themselves. You want to give them, like, a lot of, like, notice, like, this is what's going to happen this weekend. Like, they tend to really respond well to that. Questioners need reasons. They need to have a reason for what they're doing. And if they understand the reason, they will get on board. If they don't have a reason, they will not get on board. And a very poignant example I heard of this was a questioner man was telling me how when he was young, he was on the soccer team and he loved soccer. He played goalie and he had a great coach. Then they got a new coach, and the coach was like, okay, I have all these, you know, all these drills that everybody's going to do. And this kid went up to him and said, hey, I don't think I should do those drills because I'm a goalie and I have such a different position than I'm playing. And the coach was like, listen, kid, I'm the coach. Everybody does these drills. And the kid quit because he's like, that doesn't make any sense. But if the coach had said to him, hey, I get it, it seems like you really have a different position. But I've studied the training of all the best teams and they show that accuracy and speed and endurance are important no matter what position you play in. I assure you, this is gonna work just as well for you. That kid would've been like, great. All I needed to know was that there was a reason. Yeah, like in a five minute conversation, why do I need to learn the multiplication tables? I can do it on my phone. Why do I need to write a book report? You know, I read the book. If you take the time to explain to that child, they will get on board. If you say things like, because I say so, because everybody does, they won't get on board. We'll hear more about how the four tendencies show up in parenting after this break.
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- [16:40]
B
Are the tendencies and the percentage of, like, how they kind of break out in adulthood? Is that how everyone starts? Or to some degree, or like more kids are more rebels or more questioners? It's part of their exploration in the world. Or not really. Like, once you start one way, you kind of stay that way.
- [16:54]
A
Well, I have to say, in my observation, I'm a pretty big believer in the genetic roots of personality. And I do think that your tendency is something that is hardwired and it's something that you bring into the world. And it's not culture or upbringing or birth order or nationality or anything like that. I mean, I think and when you know what you're looking for, you do see them in children. It's not always obvious because children aren't autonomous in the way that adults are autonomous, but you can often spot it pretty early. If, you know, like I have a child who's an upholder and I hadn't invented the frame at that point. But if I had, I would have known very early from just the way she behaved. It's fascinating, though. Many rebels will say that they remembered the moment in childhood when they're like, wow, they can't make me. I mean, somebody was saying, like, I was putting on my socks as like a little, little kid struggling to put on my socks. And my mom was like, put on your socks. And I'm like, hey, lady, you can't make me. And it was just like this electrifying realization. So it's interesting. So I do, I do think that they, that they persist throughout our lives.
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B
So it's interesting. Probably what are just day to day, there's no better. But what are some of the more difficult kind of tendencies in terms of parenting? Just so parents can almost validate to themselves, yes, this, like, this is different than maybe another kid. This is hard.
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A
Well, rebel, I think, is the most misunderstood tendency. It's the one that's the most different from the other three tendencies. And so people often don't understand, like, how to engage with the rebels in a productive way. It's frustrating for the people who are not rebels. And it's also frustrating for the rebels because they're like, if you would just get out of my way, I could get this done. But, like, everybody's meddling with me, you
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B
know, so can you give an example? Is this the kid who's like, to me, my, my image of this kid is like, they love soccer. They love soccer and they won't get on their shoes to go to soccer. Like, like, like, meanwhile, like, even if it's not even like a thing that they hate where, like, is that something a rebel could even do?
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Because, because if you ask or tell them to do something or even like, encourage them and even praise them for doing something, you ignite the spirit of resistance. And so by saying, like, remember, get your shoes on. Are your shoes on?
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You love. Shocker. You love it.
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You're igniting the spirit of resistance. Whereas if you don't do that and you're just like, okay, we're leaving at 8am and if we don't leave by 8am you're going to be late and the coach is going to be mad at you. It's like, are you ready at 8am and you might say like 10 minutes to 8 just so that they can track the time. But one of the most kind of memorable examples I heard of a rebel child is so I have a podcast, Happier with Gretchen Rubin. And sometimes people have questions and a woman Said, I'm an upholder. I have a little, little kid who is a rebel. How do I get her to understand that there's some things you just have to do? Like you have to wash your hands after you use the potty. And my answer to her was like, you don't have to wash your hands after you use the potty. You don't. And your little girl has figured this out, and you cannot stand by her side for the next 75 years and make her do it. So you're gonna have to help her, as a rebel, decide that for her own reasons, this is what she wants to do. It's part of her identity. It's part of consequences, whatever. So the interesting thing, though, is she emailed back and she said, oh, that was really helpful to me as an upholder dealing with rubble. But here's how it played out. So this mother and daughter had gone to the mother's grandmother. So this was the little girl's great grandmother's house, who was very, very frail and had just gotten out of the hospital. And her daughter was running around. And she said, I realized I couldn't say to my daughter, you have to stop running. I can't make her stop running. And so she said to her little girl, great grandma is so frail, it would be so terrible if she fell or something bad happened to her. She needs her protectors. Can you be one of her protectors? And the little girl said, yes, I can be one of her protectors. And then she was so gentle with her great grandmother because it went to this idea of identity and choice. This is who this little girl wanted to be. It's what she chose. She was from freedom and choice. She was choosing to act in a certain way, but just ordering them. It kind of ignites the spirit of resistance. And so that can be really hard as a parent, because we spend a lot of times telling our kids what to do.
- [20:59]
B
Yes. And I don't know if one of my kids is full rebel, but, you know, definitely has that. And to me saying to him, like, I wonder how we can solve this problem? Or like, I wonder if anyone in this room has an idea, you know, is very different. Right, exactly. Is choice. That's exactly right. Yeah.
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A
So with rebels, what helps is you give them choice and freedom. So do you wanna do it now or later? Do you want this one or that one? Part of it is identity. Oh, you're an animal lover, you're a musician. You're so creative, like you're an athlete, because then actions follow identity. You can help them as a parent, like lean into an identity or you give them information, consequences, choice, which is like if we leave by 8am you won't get in trouble. If we leave after 8am you will get in trouble. It's up to you.
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B
Do you feel like those kids though? Because I feel like those kids, you give them those consequences and they kind of like put their finger up at you. They're like, I don't care. Like, I remember my youngest like being like, it was not my proudest moment as parents. Definitely not what I stand for. Not because I think it doesn't feel good for kids, because I actually think long term it doesn't, it's not effective. But I remember saying to him was something like, I am gonna take away all of your stuffed animals if you don't, you know. And it's not like they were comfort objects, but he freaking loved his stuffed animals. Animals.
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Yeah.
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And I will never forget, Gretchen, I think he was 4. He walked into his room, this child, my third child, he opens his closet. I'm witnessing this. He pushes a stool, like a little step tool there, steps on it, takes down a mini suitcase, puts all of his stuffed animals in it, zips it and wheels it to me. And he goes, here you go. I was like, I wow, I just got played. Oh my goodness, I just got played. He was like, oh, you want to take away my stuffed animals? I will, I will just, I will, I will make that easier for you to show you how much you do not exert any power over me in that way. Right.
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A
That is such a compelling example. Wow. He was four. Four.
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B
I mean this child, I can't even tell you is, I mean, is my third. So he gets less. He is just so competent. Like he doesn't ask for help with anything. He's like, his life story is like, I can figure this out by myself. And he can in a way that he sometimes like prepares breakfast for his 12 year old brother, like literally, but at the same time because that is such a part of his identity, his competence.
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Right.
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Where like here to me even like, I don't like these threats of punishments. Like I just think there's better ways. But I have found with him where my older one, my upholder, he's so guilt prone that the threat of it's not the punishment. He just would be so upset that I'd be disappointed in him that he'd want to avoid that distress. But not good later on. People pleasing stuff. But right. Like for my youngest, a rebel, like I Don't even think it would work. I've seen it.
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A
But here's the thing, though. That's the difference between punishments and consequences. So taking away his stuffed animals is a punishment, but a consequence is like, this is just the natural thing that is gonna happen. If you are late, you will be in trouble because your coach says everybody has to be there on time.
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Got it? Not like, I'm making you in trouble. Like, if you get late, your coach might not start. Like, just. That's information for you to digest.
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Right? It's like, if you don't hand in your book report, then you're gonna get a. And if you get a really bad grade, then you're not going to be able to, like, go on the trip. It's like. And then you can't rescue. You know what I mean? This is the thing where, like, a lot of times we want to swoop in and at the last time, like, okay, honey, you can stay up until 10:30 finishing it. Because I know it's really important. It's like, no, because you had a week to do it, and part of the assignment was to, like, to do it along the way, whatever. So we can't rescue. That's what adult rebels will say. Do not rescue a rebel child. They learn consequences as they happen. And if you protect them from consequences, well, then that works for them. Great.
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B
And I think that is so right. And this is helping me put so much more context to things that I have figured out with my youngest, like, are really helpful. And what's interesting, though, Gretchen, is I really do see this softening of that tendency. So that's why, like, I don't know, you and I could have many more discussions on this. I really do feel like what happened at 4, like, even that hardening, it's really not there. In the same way, he's still him. And. And. And I'm obsessed with him because he's going to be a leader one day, right? But one of the lines, especially when he was younger, that always helped. He'd be like, let's say, you know, I don't know, I want to go outside and play in the snow. Okay? And I'm not a big, like, you have to wear your jacket. I'm like, my kids are independent beings. Doesn't matter. But there was a day he was, like, literally in a pair of shorts and he wanted to go in the snow. And I was like, I just like, I actually think that's, like, irresponsible, you know? And so. And he wanted to go in the snow. Meanwhile, he doesn't have a history of going the snow in shorts. It was just one of these moments where he, like, felt like wanted him to put on jackets. So I had this choice. I said something like this, but here's the magic line with him. And then the, the, the action. I said, look, sweetie, you can choose. You can choose to not put on your snowsuit and play inside, or you could choose to put it on and play outside. That's it. But then this is the two parts. I said, it's totally up to you. And then I'd walk away and not be staring at him. Yes, it's something about. It's. It's totally up to you. And turning my back, I think gave him what he needed to act in line with logic.
- [26:11]
A
Yes. No. And I think that this is. I think a lot of times we intuitively understand, even if we don't have these terms. We start with perception and understanding. And this is what you're saying. Really pay attention to your child. You can start to see this child's gonna be too hard on themselves. So I don't wanna come down on them because they're gonna lose it. But this other child, like, I need to set things up in a different way. And giving them this choice, it's like, hey, up to you. Some rebels love a challenge. Like, I don't think many 11 year olds could learn to play that piece of music. But I don't know. You're pretty persistent when there's something you make up your mind you wanna do, so.
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Wonderful.
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We'll see. I'll show them.
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That's right. Again, the solution is in the problem.
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Exactly. Coming up, we'll talk about how the four tendencies show up in romantic relationships, including one couple's ingenious hack for using the four tendencies to solve a surprisingly common source of household conflict. But first, this break. This is a very interesting tip that we got from our listener, Sami.
- [27:28]
C
Yes. She says that she and her husband are both obligers. And as we've discussed, obligers often don't make good accountability partners for each other. I'm an obliger to remind everyone, obligers readily meet outer expectations, but they struggle to meet inner expectations. And your sweetheart often counts as inner, so you sort of see that person like yourself not as an outside influence. So these two obligers came up with a good system for them as a couple. Sammy explains. Our goals were to eat at home more and take better charge of our budget. So we decided to take turns being in Charge for eating at home more. We have head chef. It's one person's job to make dinner every night, and that alternates daily. You're in charge of making sure the groceries are there for your night, either by shopping before you come home or putting the groceries on the list when you know the other person might be shopping. If you want to go out to eat, we have to plan it in advance. Or we can do it spontaneously if the person not in charge of the cooking that night suggests it. We've only eaten out a handful of times in the past two months, which is a huge progress from at least three times a week before we started the system. And then in terms of taking better charge of their budget, we have a daily cfo. Chief financial officer. This alternates based on the calendar date. I'm even. He's odd. This has been so revolutionary as well. It's the CFO's job to be the main decision maker for all financial decisions, Check our account and input all purchases into our budget spreadsheet. It sounds like a big job, but none of it takes very long. The biggest part of it is being the decision maker for the day. If it's my day to be cfo, it's my husband's responsibility to run all purchases by me. For example, he's at the grocery store and thinks, we need a new blender. As cfo, I think about our budget and say yes or no. Before this system, neither of us were in charge, and both of us were in charge. It was chaos anyway. Basically, we take turns being in charge and hold the other person accountable. It feels so sustainable, and I can't believe how easy of a switch it was. This is genius.
- [29:43]
A
My gosh, this is a really, really good way, because this is something that many, many obligers talk about, is they're like, I'm an OBL married to an obliger. And I have to say, many of the happiest marriages that I personally know of are two obligers married to each other. But there is this problem that they kind of will be like, oh, sure, go ahead, or, yeah, let's eat out. They don't make good accountability partners for each other. And it seems to me that maybe what's working here is there's a role. And when you're in that job. Yeah. And when you're in that job, it's like that's almost like it's taking you out of yourself. And you're like, I have to be accountable to this role. And we've agreed that it's gonna be good for both of us if I live up to this role. And therefore, if I don't live up to this role, the whole system's gonna fall apart that we're both depending on. So I need to do my part, because if I don't do my part, you won't do your part. And that's not good for you, and it's not good for me. So I have to live up to it. Yeah.
- [30:39]
C
I mean, it makes perfect sense. You're like, okay, I'm head chef. What does a head chef do? A head chef cook. Therefore, I must cook. You know?
- [30:46]
A
Yeah.
- [30:47]
C
What does a CFO do? They make good financial decisions, therefore I must make good decisions. I mean, I think that is so much how obligers think. It's just you label something like that, and then you're like, well, I must meet this expectation. Like, the world is, you know, watching.
- [31:04]
A
Right, right, right.
- [31:05]
C
So I think this is so smart.
- [31:07]
A
Yeah, yeah. And they both agreed to it. It would only work if both people were like, this is a system that we buy into, because if one person doesn't buy in, it needs the reinforcement of the taking turns and the holding each other accountable. So I think this is a brilliant solution for a very common problem. And what I love about it, too, is I am often so struck by the imagination and the ingenuity shown by obligers and how they can find outer accountability in situations where, like, I just wouldn't have occurred to me and, like, this is something. I wouldn't have seen the power of it. But then, like you say once, you say, like, oh, it's a role that you're accountable to. You see how you could use this very easily in a lot of situations if this is the kind of thing that works for you. So I think well done. Brilliant.
- [31:52]
C
Yes. And also, it sounds fun, I have to say. It sounds like it's almost like a game, you know? So it's kind of just adding a fun element to life, too, and making these things, which can be very mundane and a drag, like elevating that and making them kind of special and fun. So I think this is wonderful.
- [32:13]
A
And another thing is that obligers often do get exploited and taken advantage of. That is something that happens to obligers. This is very, very clearly fair. It's divided up to be in a way that's very clearly fair. And obligers shouldn't have to shoulder more than their burdens, their fair share of the burdens. And so this is good, too, because it makes sure that everything's fair and that it doesn't turn into a system where one person's doing more than their fair share. Then you get into obliger rebellion. That's no fun. So this is a great system.
- [32:42]
C
Yes. So thank you, Sammy, for that four tendency tip.
- [32:46]
A
Yes,
- [32:51]
C
Let's start with a question from Dan. He says, currently I'm in a difficult situation where my significant other, who is a questioner, wants me to be quote myself, but also wants me to be more selfish and be more focused on myself. Kind of like an upholder. I just don't know how to stay focused on myself and meet my inner expectations. So if you have any advice or know where I can get that kind of advice, it would be much appreciated. I'm in a very difficult situation right now. Dan is obviously an obliger.
- [33:23]
A
Yes, yes. And so, and this is a classic problem with an obliger, which is that I'm not good at meeting my expectations for myself or I'm not good at drawing boundaries. I'm not good at making myself a priority. I'm not good at self care. And this, I have to say, can be a point of conflict with questioners and upholders. Because questioners and upholders are good at meeting inner expectations, they can get kind of exasperated when they don't understand why obligers can't make time for themselves or follow through on things for themselves. So the answer is outer accountability. If you are an obliger, you need outer accountability for anything that's an inner expectation, even something that is fun or indulgent or anything. So if you want to read more, join a book group. If you want to take a nap, say, make a deal with your partner where you can only take a nap if I take a nap. And so you have to take a nap because your partner wants to take a nap. Or you could think of your duty to your future self. Or, you know, there's many. You could sign up for a class, you want to exercise more, sign up for a class, or make plans with a friend who'll be annoyed if you don't show up. There are a million ways to create outer accountability. But what an obliger needs to realize is, and it's good for the questioner to realize this too, there has to be outer accountability. Now, side note, sweethearts and spouses do not typically make good accountability partners because they're too close to us. So we ignore them just the way we'd ignore us if we're an obliger. So you want to get outer accountability from somebody other than your partner or your sweetheart or your spouse. But that is the thing. Whatever it is that you need to do to be more selfish or more focused on yourself, you need to find a way to have outer accountability. Your partner could give you like a gift card for a massage and be like, you're really gonna hurt my feelings if you don't get the massage. Then Dan is gonna feel like he has to get the massage cause otherwise his significant other's feelings are gonna be hurt. Good luck Dan. Good luck Dan.
- [35:13]
C
Don't try to be an upholder, just outer accountability.
- [35:16]
A
It's the answer. So I hope you're feeling happy after listening to this episode. I know I am. Remember, if you'd like to learn your tendencies, take the quiz@happiercast.com fourtendencies or gretchenrubin.com quiz more than three and a half million people have taken this quiz. It is a very useful tool for understanding and easing conflict in close relationships. I would love to hear what questions or hacks you found for using the four tendencies in your relationships. Send them to podcastretchenrubin.com thanks for listening. And remember, the best time to start a happiness project was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.
- [36:15]
C
Hi Gretchen, Craig Robinson and my little
- [36:17]
A
sister Michelle here we host a new
- [36:20]
C
podcast called IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson.
- [36:24]
A
We know you're the queen of giving advice, so we wanted to get a
- [36:28]
C
few tips from you.
- [36:30]
B
You know Gretchen, a lot of our
- [36:31]
A
listeners are going through some major life changes.
- [36:34]
B
What advice do you have for folks who are trying to stay grounded in the midst of midst of major life transitions?
- [36:41]
A
Craig and Michelle, I am so happy to be talking to you. Here are a few questions that might help us gain perspective. So consider questions like this. What activities take up my time but are not particularly useful or stimulating for me? Do I spend a lot of time on something that's important to someone else but is not very important to me? If I could magically change one habit in my life, what would I choose? And here's a question. Would I like to have more time in solitude, restorative solitude, or would I like to have more time with friends? You know, just thinking about questions like this can help us start to figure out how we might make our lives happier. With greater self knowledge, we're better able to make hard decisions that reflect ourselves, our own nature, our own interests, our own values. In my own case, I have found that the more my life reflects my nature, the happier I get and the more grounded I feel when I'm going through a period of major change or transition. For more great advice, search for IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. Wherever your get podcast, you can listen to Issa Rae on letting go of certain friendships Kiki Palmer on why disappointment is actually the key to career success Seth and Lauren Rogan on caring for aging parents and so many more.