Podcast Summary: Happier with Gretchen Rubin

More Happier: “Crying in H Mart” by Michelle Zauner [Revisited]

Original Air Date: December 13, 2025
Hosts: Gretchen Rubin & Elizabeth Craft
Special Guest: Michelle Zauner, author and musician
Episode Focus: In this Book Club revisited episode (originally recorded in 2021), Gretchen and Elizabeth welcome Michelle Zauner to discuss her memoir, Crying in H Mart, cultural identity, grief, family bonds, music, and the craft of memoir writing.

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the emotional landscape of Michelle Zauner’s bestselling memoir Crying in H Mart, focusing on grieving her Korean mother, connecting with cultural roots, the complexities of immigrant family relationships, and Michelle’s dual careers as a musician (Japanese Breakfast) and author. The conversation explores cultural expectations, the power of food, healing through creativity, and the ongoing process of familial understanding.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Meaning of "Crying in H Mart"

[03:39]

• Michelle Zauner explains that H Mart is a Korean grocery store chain where she often went after her mother’s death. Cooking Korean dishes helped her grieve and feel close to her mother.
• Notable Quote:

  "Cooking Korean dishes and learning how to make Korean food helped me grieve her loss and kind of remember her the way I wanted to." — Michelle Zauner [03:52]

2. Cultural Identity and Familial Connection

[05:03, 06:40]

• Discussion of how her mother's way of expressing love (through food) differed from that of her American peers.
• The emotional journey of embracing her mixed heritage:

  "My mom is an immigrant parent, and the way that she loves me is very different from the way that I see my peers... and that was something I came to realize much deeper in the process of writing this book." — Michelle Zauner [07:16]

3. Favorite Dishes and Food as Love

[05:37]

• Michelle’s mother’s kalbi (Korean short rib barbecue) is the most memorable meal for her, symbolizing her mother’s love and comfort.

4. Reflections on Mother-Daughter Relationship

[08:37, 10:57]

• Michelle reflects on imagining her mother’s reaction to her musical success and writing, reading a moving passage about performing in Korea after her mother’s death.
• Memorable Passage Read by Michelle Zauner [08:54]:

  “I wish that my mother could see me, could be proud of the woman I'd become and the career I'd built... If there was a God, it seemed my mother must have had her foot on his neck, demanding good things come my way.”

• The hosts discuss how recognizing their differences allowed for deeper communication.

5. Intergenerational Wisdom and "Keeping 10%"

[12:34]

• Michelle’s mother’s advice to "save 10% of yourself," even from those closest to you, and how this theme resonates with self-protection and independence.
• Connection to Virginia Woolf's writing on personal solitude.

6. Impact of Writing the Memoir

[18:46-19:40]

• Writing helped Michelle better understand herself and her family with compassion:

  "In order to get full perspective and multidimensional characters, you have to explore all parts of a person's backstory... I was able to understand where people were coming from in such a deeper way and forgive myself and other people..." — Michelle Zauner [19:16]

7. Relationship with Her Father

[19:40-23:11]

• Discussion turns to the complicated relationship with her father following her mother’s death and the impact of grief.
• Reveals that her father’s main concern about the book was a minor factual detail regarding his job, emphasizing the complexity and sometimes unpredictability of family reactions to memoir.

8. Memoir Process & Perspective

[24:03-24:39]

• The memoir revision process involved striving for fairness:

  "...if you're gonna throw someone under the bus, you have to throw yourself under the bus too." — Michelle Zauner [24:31]

9. Crafting Amidst Ongoing Grief

[28:54-29:49]

• Michelle acknowledges the memoir captures raw, still-unfolding events, especially in the later chapters, giving the memoir immediacy and authenticity.

10. Creativity, Music, and Writing

[29:54-31:42]

• Michelle discusses the interplay between songwriting and prose writing, noting that music allows for broader interpretation, whereas memoirs require more guided, detailed storytelling.
• Notable Song Connection:
  • Japanese Breakfast’s “Rugged Country” and the imagery of her mother’s ring.

11. The Four Tendencies and Practical Happiness

[32:26-33:04]

• Michelle identifies as an Upholder on Gretchen's Four Tendencies personality framework, echoing the hosts.
• On keeping commitments:

  "It's really important for me... that I keep commitments to myself. I think it's what keeps me grounded." — Michelle Zauner [32:46]

12. Try This at Home: Life Hack

[33:17-34:00]

• Michelle shares her husband Peter’s simple egg carton tip: tear off the lid for easier access and visibility—prompting both hosts to marvel at its practicality.
• “Peter gets a gold star!” [34:17]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:39] — Michelle explains H Mart and the premise of her memoir.
• [05:37] — Favorite dish: kalbi and significance of food in family life.
• [08:54] — Michelle reads a moving passage about performing in Korea.
• [12:34] — Discussion of her mother's advice on "saving 10%."
• [18:46] — How writing the memoir deepened her understanding of family.
• [19:40–23:11] — Candid discussion about her father and family drift after loss.
• [24:03–24:39] — On fairness and revision in memoir writing.
• [29:54–31:42] — On creativity, music, and writing process.
• [32:26] — Michelle’s Four Tendencies quiz answer.
• [33:17] — "Try This at Home" suggestion.

Notable Quotes

• “Cooking Korean dishes and learning how to make Korean food helped me grieve her loss and kind of remember her the way I wanted to."
  — Michelle Zauner [03:52]

• “If you're gonna throw someone under the bus, you have to throw yourself under the bus too.”
  — Michelle Zauner [24:31]

• “You learn how to love someone the way that you were loved by your parents, I think... and a lot of what my mom said was right.”
  — Michelle Zauner [11:47]

• "It's really important for me... that I keep commitments to myself. I think it's what keeps me grounded."
  — Michelle Zauner [32:46]

Memorable Moments

• Michelle’s vibrant description of favorite Korean dishes and the comforting rituals of homecoming [05:37].
• Poignant reading of her longing for her mother’s pride from the end of the memoir [08:54].
• Practical wisdom in the “save 10%” rule and personal independence [12:34].
• An “aha” moment during the egg carton hack, delighting both hosts [34:00].
• Michelle’s honest reflections on grief, growth, and forgiveness in family relationships.

Tone & Style

Friendly, candid, and reflective, the discussion balances deep themes of loss, identity, and healing with relatable, practical observations and friendly banter between the hosts and their guest. Michelle Zauner’s insights are thoughtful and generous, often illustrating broader truths through personal anecdotes.

Listener Takeaways

• The memoir deeply resonates with those from mixed backgrounds and/or who have lost a parent.
• Food can be a powerful conduit of love and cultural inheritance.
• Grief, reflection, and creativity can alter and deepen our understanding of family.
• No family story is one-sided; fairness in storytelling includes emotional honesty about oneself.
• Small, practical daily changes (like the egg carton tip or keeping commitments to yourself) are a surprising source of happiness.

Final Thoughts

The episode is an enriching conversation about love, loss, reconciliation, and artistic process—both a fresh revisit for fans of the original episode and a moving stand-alone exploration for new listeners. The hosts warmly recommend Crying in H Mart for those seeking emotional depth, cultural insight, and a story of belonging.

“Remember, the best time to start a happiness project is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.” — Gretchen Rubin [34:54]