More Happier: For Travel, Familiarity or Novelty? Plus a Flossing Hack & the Pleasure of Routine

Summary

Podcast Summary: Happier with Gretchen Rubin
Episode: More Happier: For Travel, Familiarity or Novelty? Plus a Flossing Hack & the Pleasure of Routine
Release Date: September 20, 2025
Hosts: Gretchen Rubin and Elizabeth Craft

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Gretchen and Elizabeth explore the tension between novelty and familiarity—especially when returning to their hometown. They reflect on the joys and challenges of routines versus trying new things, share a surprisingly enjoyable flossing hack, and discuss the pleasure of setting (and sticking to) ambitious goals. The conversation is a blend of personal anecdotes, practical advice, and the sisters' trademark humor and honesty.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What's Making Us Happier This Week?

Elizabeth's Commitment to Orange Theory

• Elizabeth is happy about increasing her Orange Theory Fitness visits from two to three times a week to meet her goal of 100 classes for the year.
• She shares how tracking and aiming for a specific number boosts her motivation, a strategy aligned with her "obliger" tendency (03:09).
  • “I did a hundred hikes at Priming Canyon last year and I made my number and it felt so good. So now I want to feel that same gratification this year.” – Elizabeth (03:11)
• Routines are sometimes hard to schedule, but commitment makes it easier:
  • “Knowing I have to do it makes it easier, if that makes sense. Right. Committing in my mind to doing it makes it easier to go.” – Elizabeth (04:12)
• Acknowledges the flexibility and unpredictability in her weekly scheduling.

Gretchen's Joy in Routine

• Gretchen thrives on habit and routine. While she enjoys the novelty of summer, she feels relief and satisfaction at returning to predictable routines in the fall.
  • “I do really thrive on predictability and familiarity… settling back into routine.” – Gretchen (05:57)
• The end of summer and return to routine feels like a “fresh start.”
• She notes her new puppy, Taffy, has both disrupted and become part of her routine.

2. Travel: Familiarity vs. Novelty

Visiting Their Hometown (Kansas City): Tradition Versus Exploring

• Gretchen asks Elizabeth about her approach: stick to old favorites or try new things while visiting home?
  • Gretchen prefers the familiar—Winstead’s, walks, favorite stores and parks.
  • Elizabeth enjoys a mix: she repeats traditions (like Winstead’s on arrival) but actively seeks out new stores and restaurants, often influenced by tips from their mom or siblings (11:13-12:01).
  • New traditions can emerge from trying new things (e.g., TopGolf and escape rooms) (12:32, 13:04).
• The experience of visiting at different times of the year also offers fresh perspectives (14:08), like visiting in spring and seeing the nostalgic plaza bunnies.
  • “Seeing it at a different time… a thousand memories came rushing back, but I’d forgotten that I remembered them until I saw them.” – Gretchen (14:44)
• The research: novelty enhances happiness and makes time feel richer, though there is also pleasure in revisiting old favorites (15:21).
• Striking a balance: maintain beloved routines but allow for the “new” to keep experiences dynamic and vivid.
  • “If you never try new things, then you never add anything.” – Gretchen (12:59)
  • “You may do something, love it, and then want to add it to your routine. So it's worth trying.” – Elizabeth (16:41)

3. Tool Spotlight: The Four Tendencies (and Habits Check-In)

• Gretchen marks the 8th anniversary of her book The Four Tendencies (17:04), which helps people identify how they respond to expectations and thus, how best to establish habits.
• Advice: use the final months of the year to reflect on your goals and consider how your tendency (Obliger, Upholder, Questioner, Rebel) can help you achieve them (17:52).
  • “It's really a great time to check in on what you want to accomplish for 2025… the book is really meant to be a toolkit.” – Gretchen (17:52)
• Listeners are encouraged to take the Four Tendencies quiz on Gretchen’s website.

4. Flossing Hack: Making Unpleasant Habits More Palatable

• Elizabeth has long struggled with consistent flossing, citing “subpar gums.”
• A turning point: she gets a toothbrush/water flosser combo after her friend Sarah (an "overbuyer") recommends it—surprisingly, it makes flossing more doable (21:31-22:22).
  • “I'll tell you what's good about having an overbuyer in your life. They find some really fantastic things... She was 100% right.” – Elizabeth (22:05)
• Gretchen highlights new research: interdental brushes and similar devices may be as good as (or better than) floss for some people (23:57-24:22).
  • “The best thing to do is the thing you actually do.” – Gretchen (24:22)
• Practical tip: try different flossing devices, like Gum Soft Picks, flavored floss, or interdental brushes—whatever you’ll stick with.
• Humor about the awkwardness of flossing language:
  • “I wish that there was a word alternative to pick. I just. I hate the word pick.” – Elizabeth (26:00)
• Motivation—keep the teeth you want to use!

5. Notable Quote of the Week

“This is a very thought provoking line…from the memoir Lab Girl by Hope Jahren:
‘Pretending that things are true is often more fun than knowing they are false.’”
— Gretchen (27:52)

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On Routines:
  • “You could probably never go on a vacation again. And you like how it makes you grow to just, you know, leave your element... but you are not someone who's like, I'm just craving to get on a plane and go somewhere.” – Elizabeth (07:41)
• On Trying New Things:
  • “It makes our hometown stay new and dynamic, not just…a relic on the shelf. It’s an evolving, changing place.” – Elizabeth (13:17)
• On Flossing:
  • “About one third of Americans actually floss…which is the same thing they say about exercise...the best thing to do is the thing you actually do.” – Gretchen (24:22)
  • “I find it actually enjoyable to use these things because it's more like picking your teeth, which I hate to say, but I find it enjoyable...” – Gretchen (25:19)
• On Balancing Familiarity and Novelty:
  • “I want to go to Winstead’s and…I have these things that I want to do every time. But you’re right, then it gets stale. And then it also might start to feel like it’s getting diminished because some of these things go away. And if you don’t add new things, then you’re right. You don’t have a sense of being connected to the vitality of the city.” – Gretchen (13:29)
• On Habits:
  • “Thinking about your tendency can really be a useful way to figure out what’s standing in your way and what will help you finish strong.” – Gretchen (17:52)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|---------------------| | 02:21 | Elizabeth's Orange Theory habit and the power of “the number” | | 05:57 | Gretchen on the comfort of routine and post-summer reset | | 11:13 | Elizabeth's approach to hometown travel: mixing old and new | | 15:21 | Research: novelty versus familiarity in happiness | | 17:04 | The Four Tendencies and year-end goal setting | | 21:31 | Flossing struggles—and the water flosser hack | | 24:22 | Gretchen on dental health and finding the best personal flossing routine | | 27:52 | Quote of the week from Lab Girl |

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Tone & Style

The episode is warm, candid, and gently humorous, with the hosts sharing both relatable challenges and small triumphs. Gretchen’s practical, research-based insights are balanced by Elizabeth’s storytelling and real-life “guinea pig” approach.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Embrace both routine and novelty: traditions are grounding, but new experiences renew and enrich even familiar places.
• Setting a quantifiable goal can create motivating accountability, especially for “obligers.”
• Find habit tools and routines tailored to your unique personality and preferences.
• For unappealing but important habits (like flossing), experimentation and the right equipment (or word!) can make it easier—and sometimes even enjoyable.

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Quote of the Episode:
“Pretending that things are true is often more fun than knowing they are false.”
—Hope Jahren, Lab Girl (27:52)

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For more tools, quizzes, and resources, visit GretchenRubin.com or tune in to future episodes of Happier.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Hello, we're here for More Happier a podcast where we get happier. It's the weekend, it's more more observations and reflections with a bit of a lucer vibe. Hey Elizabeth.

[A]

Hey Gretch.

[B]

Today we'll talk about a question related to visiting your hometown and also something extremely mundane, possibly edging into the TMI territory. But first, Elizabeth, what is something making us happier? What's making you happier?

[A]

Well, Gretch, what is making me happier is that I am now upping my Orange Theory visits to to three times a week so that I can get to my 100 number. Ah, so the idea was I'd go twice a week to Orange Theory and that would get me to a hundred. But you know, you get sick, you go out of town, so I've missed a bunch. And I realize if I want to be on track for the hundred, I have to do more. And I've been saying that for weeks slash months. But now I'm finally doing it. So it's making me happier that I'm following through with my plan. Once a week I'm doing a treadmill class. That's what I've added in. So it's kind of different.

[B]

Okay, so a few questions about this. Because of course, as somebody who studies habits, I'm fascinated by this. It seems like for you, this 100 is very compelling.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You are committed to that?

[A]

I am, yes. You know, I did a hundred hikes at Priming Canyon last year and I made my number and it felt so good. So now I want to feel that same gratification this year.

[B]

I think it's a good lesson for obligers. Different forms of accountability work for different obligers. But this is good to know that you feel very accountable to sort of a number. Aim fifty or a hundred or twenty five minutes a day for you tracking like that. You do feel very accountable to it.

[A]

Yes. And one thing I like is that it is for the year and it's the number. So it's like, again, if I don't go for a week because I'm out of town, that's fine. Right. It's knowing the overall number I'm going for.

[B]

Okay. And here's another question, is, you know, I often say that for me, it's easier to do something every day than to do it some days. As you're doing three instead of two or one or zero, do you find that it's harder? Is it actually easier to go, paradoxically, when more often. Is it just another thing for your schedule? How would you characterize that?

[A]

It's about the same, I would say. I think it's hard just because I have a lot to do. So finding another time is kind of hard. But knowing I have to do it makes it easier, if that makes sense. Right. Committing in my mind to doing it makes it easier to go.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Even though technically it's the same amount of hard or easy.

[B]

Right. And then last question is, do you go at the same time or is this moving around week to week, moving.

[A]

Around every week, which makes it more difficult, but I just have to do it that way.

[B]

You don't have the kind of life where you could just.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Commit to 5 o' clock on Wednesday every week. It just. It's not gonna work.

[A]

It's just not predictable in that way. Yeah. So that. That also makes it a little more difficult. But they have a lot of classes, which really helps. Yeah, they have a Lot of classes.

[B]

And do you always go to the same studio or do you go to different studios? You do always go to the same studio?

[A]

I always go to the same studio. Yeah. So that's what's making me happier.

[B]

Well, that's a very big, ambitious aim. And that's a lot of orange theory. I mean, was it last year or two years ago when your aim was to go one time to just try?

[A]

Well, no, that's another thing I have on my 25 for 25 list, which is to try solid core, which I have not.

[B]

You're always in the fashion of all these cutting edge new classes.

[A]

Yes, I have not tried it yet, but I'm. I absolutely intend to before the year is up.

[B]

Well, I want to say that if you try it, you should be able to count it double. You should be able to count it towards your 25 for 25. But it should also count as an orange theory day. I think you should just make that call.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

How about you? What is making you happier?

[B]

Well, I have to say that I am somebody who really does love routine and habits. Maybe it's being an upholder, maybe it's just my nature. But I do really thrive on predictability and familiarity. And so as much as I love the summer and traveling and having longer days and the summer just feels different, and that's fun and exciting, I have to say that I do feel some relief. I do get a good feeling when it's like, okay, we're settling back into routine. And like, everything speeds up because everybody's back at their desk. But even that is nice. Cause you're like, well, in a way, you're doing more work. But on the other hand, you can get more done more easily just because everybody's back in the saddle. And I do, you know, with Eliza and Eleanor going back to school or even just the feeling of September, it does feel like a fresh start to me. So on the one hand, it feels fresh and new and exciting in that way, but it also feels like, okay, this is the familiar routine. Cause I am somebody who just really likes to get up. And, you know, Taffy kind of has thrown my routine into a little bit of disarray. But even now, she's incorporated into my routine. I like getting back into the usual swing of things after the fun of the summer.

[A]

Yeah. Well, it's funny. Cause I think of you as someone, Gretch, for whom the summer really is more of a burden than the other part of the year. Like, I think of you as you have to brace yourself for summer. Like, okay, now I must go on vacation.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Now I must be enthusiastic.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

About relaxing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which most people are. Not that way. But you happen to be that way.

[B]

Yeah. I have to say, it does make me sound like such a killjoy, but there is that aspect of my nature.

[A]

You could probably never go on a vacation again. And you like how it makes you grow to just, you know, leave your element, et cetera.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But you are not someone who's like, I'm just craving to get on a plane and go somewhere.

[B]

No.

[A]

Either to relax or to explore. You're very happy in your routine, which is wonderful.

[B]

Yeah. There's good parts of that. And I will say, like, of the things that, like, I actually anticipate in terms of, like, breaking me out of my schedule. The reading retreat, I was like, wow. I really am honestly looking forward to that in a way that other things, like, I know they make me happier. I know that novelty. And, of course, I feel incredibly fortunate to get to go. It's not like I take it for granted or I'm not happy about it, but just in terms of what suits my immediate nature. Yes, I am better suited to routine and habit, for sure.

[A]

But, yeah, agree. The reading retreat, that was a revelation in terms of how appealing something could be, both in anticipation and in execution.

[B]

Yes. I can do that once a quarter.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. All right, Gretch. Well, coming up, there's something you've been meaning to ask me. But first, this break. It's important to recharge, but when you go on vacation, please don't hide the key under the mat. That's safe ish. We know safe ish. Home security hacks don't actually work. We just use them because they're easy. ADT's systems help keep you safe and secure and are customizable to your needs.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Well, I do like to do the usual things. I like to go to Winstead's the very first day that I arrive.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Of course, there's certain stores that I like to go to. Halls. To go to Halls. I have a new store I love called Click Boutique.

[B]

But see, there's a new thing that you're doing. You've got a new thing you're doing.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You were writing about this on your substack, and I was looking at your recommendations, and I was like, some of these are the old familiars, like Winsteads Q39. But then there were ones I was like, oh, this is like a whole new thing.

[A]

Well, I think either mom or Mindy told me about that store. And, yeah, I do. I like to keep up to date on what's happening in Kansas City. I like to go to new restaurants. A new restaurant opened near mom and dad that we went to, and I very much was like, okay, as soon as I get to Kansas City, I must try out this new restaurant.

[B]

Oh, how was it? I didn't know you'd gone.

[A]

Yes, Very good.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Now, I can't think of the name, but it's on Main Street. And the other thing is, having a boy forces me to try different things because, you know, I think we're two girls. You have two girls. So we sort of all really like, certain things. Things. And Jack's just like. He's not really interested in going to the miniature museum or he doesn't care about going to halls or walking around the plaza.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, for instance, this time we went to Top Golf because Jack and Adam love golf. And dad had known about this place to try, and we'd heard about topgolf, but never gone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so we said, well, let's try it out. Well, what's funny is, now that we did it and we really liked it, in fact, we went twice while we were there, and we were only there three days. That'll be like, something we do every time.

[B]

Sure. But that's the thing. If you never try new things, then you never add anything.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Well, it's like we did the escape room because one year, Eliza loves escape rooms. And now whenever we're all together, we try to do an escape room. And that's a whole new. We explore all different parts of Kansas City because we go to these different escape rooms. So. Yeah.

[A]

Well. And I think it is fun to. It makes our hometown stay new and dynamic, not just, you know, a relic on the shelf. It's an evolving, changing place.

[B]

Yeah. See, and I need to remember that because I definitely have the sense of. I wanna go to Luce park and walk around the pond, and I wanna go to Kaufman Gardens and look at the flowers, and I wanna go to Winstead's, and I wanna go for barbecue, and I wanna go to Westport or Crestwood, and I have these things that I want to do every time. But you're right, then it gets stale. And then it also might start to feel like it's getting diminished because some of these things go away. And if you don't add new things, then you're right. You don't have a sense of being connected to the vitality of the city.

[A]

Yeah. The key is we have to just go enough so that we can do the things we love and do new things.

[B]

Well. And also, you know what I think is interesting about going is we always go at Christmas. Well, you go every other year at Christmas. We go every year at Christmas, and we go in the summer, sometimes at the same time, sometimes at different times. But then there was that year where I forget why, but just you. And I went to stay with mom and dad, and it was the springtime, and we realized that neither one of us had been in Kansas City in the springtime for years. And then on the plaza, they had those larger than life bunnies that are, like, all dressed up in Their formal clothes and their party clothes.

[A]

And they've been the same, I have to point out, since we were.

[B]

Oh, yeah. The minute I saw them, a thousand memories came rushing back, but I'd forgotten that I remembered them until I saw them. And so then I thought, oh, this is something about Kansas City that. Just seeing it at a different time. This year, we went in June, and so we didn't have the cicadas. And I said to mom and dad, oh, I miss so much the cicada sound, because you've made me so aware of that sound as being so Kansas City. And I'm like, well, but if you go in June, you don't hear that. Yes.

[A]

And we did hear it when we were just there in August. Gretch, Jack and Adam and I, we were actually watching a movie with mom and dad, and the cicadas were so loud, like, sometimes I couldn't hear the dialogue.

[B]

Oh. I mean, they can get as loud, I think, as, like, a lawnmower. I mean, they get really, really loud. But here's the thing, is that if you look at the happiness research, what the research shows is that novelty makes people happier. It makes time richer. Even something like going to a new restaurant instead of your old favorite restaurant tends to make people happier. Though I do think that there's a lot to be said for revisiting things. I think there's a lot of pleasure in that, too.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But then I think it's the things you do that are unusual or different that then stick out in your mind. Because otherwise, every visit to Winstead's just blurs into every other visit, which is wonderful. But then I think one year with dad, Eliza, Eleanor, and I did this ropes course.

[A]

Yes, I remember hearing about that, which was.

[B]

It was a whole intense thing. Like, it wasn't a uniformly positive experience, but, boy, it was memorable. I remember that much better, even though it was many, many years ago. I mean, it must be, like, at least seven years ago now. I remember that much better than, like, oh, this is us walking around the plaza, getting iced coffee. As much as I love going to rainy day books, it's like, okay, here it is again. It's not strikingly, notably different because it's something that we do over time. So I guess the lesson is to try to aim to do both, even if you're someone like me who feels very compelled by the familiar.

[A]

Right. Well, you may do something, love it, and then want to add it to your routine. So it's worth trying.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. That's very true. Interesting.

[A]

All right, Gretch, what is our spotlight on a tool this week?

[B]

Okay, so it is bonkers to think of this, but I realized that my book about the four tendencies came out eight years ago.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So I had written better than before my book about habit change, which is all about the ways that we can make or break our habits. And that talks about the 21 strategies we can use to make or break our habits. And one of the strategies was use the four tendencies. Use your knowledge about whether you were an upholder, a questioner, obliger, a rebel, to figure out how to set yourself up for success. But then what's better than before it came out, all anybody wanted to ask me about was the four tendencies. So then I was like, well, I guess I'll write a book about the four tendencies. And so this is a tool for you. And if you don't know what you are, you can take the [e-mail] quiz and if you know what you are or you just figured out what you are, there are three months left in the year. It's really a great time to check in on what you want to accomplish for 2025. If there's something that you've been meaning to tackle and it's still hanging over you, or there's something where you've drifted away from something, thinking about your tendency can really be a useful way to figure out what's standing in your way and what will help you finish strong. So often I will talk to people, and I'm like, you're telling me that you want to do this, and you're telling me you're an obliger, and yet there is no outer accountability for this. That is the solution. But the fact is, things change, and what worked in January might not be exactly what you need now. So it is a good time to just step back and reflect. And the book, the Four Tendencies is really meant to be a toolkit. It is full of strategies of, like, how to deal with yourself in all different kinds of situations, very specific. And then also how to deal with other people who have that tendency, or how to, like, deal with relationships and different combinations.

[A]

Just know how useful it is for people. Because, Gretch, anytime I meet a listener, the first thing they do is say, oh, I'm an obliger. I'm a questioner. I'm a rebel. I'm an upholder. I mean, invariably.

[B]

Right, Right. No, I know. I find that so satisfying. I love this framework so much, and there's so much material on my site that is aimed at helping people deal with this. So if you go to happiercast.com tendencies or you can just go to my website and poke around, there's tons of stuff there, tons of tools, and again, you can take the quiz there. Just if you need a little bit of a boost before the year's up to achieve your aims for yourself. Excellent.

[A]

Okay, Gretch, coming up, there's something you've been meaning to tell me. But first, this break Audible's romance collection has something to satisfy every side of you. I absolutely love romances. I always have. When we went to England and did our walking trip through the Lake District, Gretchen, I listened to a wonderful romance called you are Here. It was so great to listen about the place and be in the place. And I could, you know, listen while I was packing, listen on the plane. It just got me in the mood.

[B]

Audible has thousands of titles, so you can listen to whatever audiobook you're in the mood for. You can find the book boyfriend in the city or another on the hockey field. Or if nothing on this earth satisfies, you can always find love in another realm, perhaps with dragons. Your first great love story is free when you sign up for a free 30 day trial at audible.com/happier. If you've been keeping up with the podcast, you know that last month Elizabeth and I went on our first ever reading retreat, which was amazing. It was so fun. Just eating, reading, and sleeping all day every day. No sightseeing, no scheduling, no stress. And it got us thinking that you could really turn anything into a themed retreat. You could go biking, you could go hiking, you could do a board game retreat with friends, or a binge watching retreat. Whatever you're into, it's all about blocking out time and dedicating yourself to something you love.

[A]

And while you're away, why not host your home on Airbnb? It's an easy, flexible way to take in some extra cash and make the most of your space. And who knows, that cozy reading nook that you enjoy in your house day to day could be the site of someone else's first annual reading retreat. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] host okay, Gretch, we're back. What have you been meaning to tell me?

[B]

Okay, this is about flossing, Elizabeth. And you know why I'm thinking about you with the subject of flossing.

[A]

Yes, I should mention that flossing is like an issue in my life. I really need to floss twice A day. I have subpar gums, as I like to say. It's a struggle. I don't think anybody likes to floss. I have recently, somewhat recently gotten this device that's a toothbrush and a water pick because for some reason that makes it easier to do water flossing. I should mention that my dentist also wants me to water floss. So floss and water floss.

[B]

Oh, both.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But the water flossing, I was just like, that is not happening. And then Sarah convinced me to get this. I'll tell you what's good about having an overbuyer in your life. They find some really fantastic things. Oh, interesting. That I would not find.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I would never have bought this, but Sarah bought it and went on a campaign for a year to get me to buy it because she knew about my flossing issues and she was 100% right. So it can lead to some great things to have the overbuyer testing out products.

[B]

Well, I want to say that is a great drive by observation because I think a lot of times overbuyers feel bad about being overbuyers. Well, they're usually extremely well prepared for things. So that's great about being overbuyer. But also. That's right. They're good cool hunters or good solution finders because they're willing to try things out. Well, speaking of tools and flossing, there was a recent article in the New York Times, and I'll put a link in the show notes that was called, dentists know you hate flossing. Try this instead. And so it was making the point. And this is just for the regular personal, like, you kind of have an elevated need to floss, but all of us should floss. And the point of flossing is to get rid of plaque. And the thing about plaque is it leads to gum disease and inflammation around teeth. But it's also something that has always surprised me is that gum disease is associated with many health conditions which seem completely unrelated, like heart disease and type 2 diabetes. And so you really don't want to have gum disease. So it turns out if you use a toothbrush, that gets rid of about 40 to 60% of plaque, but it doesn't do a good job of going between teeth. And the fact is we should floss because that's how you do clean between the teeth. But about one third of Americans actually floss. So it is not something that everybody is doing the way I think, you know, just about everybody brushes their teeth. But it is not the fact that People floss. So the point of the article was that sometimes you can find a different device, as you did, that might make it more pleasant or effective, because what everybody says with flossing is the same thing they say about exercise or whatever, which is the best thing to do is the thing you actually do.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And this especially for questioners who can get very, very intent on, like, the optimal. The best, the maximizer solution. It's like, yeah, but it's the thing that you stick to that is going to do the most. And so they talked about these little scrubbers called interdental brushes that have bristles. They're usually made of nylon or rubber. And it turns out that more and more dental professionals are encouraging people to try them either along with floss or instead of floss, because some people stick to it better. I myself use something called gum soft picks. And here's the thing that I think is a little bit tmi, which is that I find it actually enjoyable to use these things because it's more like picking your teeth, which I hate to say, but I find it enjoyable to pick my teeth in the privacy of my own bathroom, of course, not at a restaurant. Right. But like, flossing, I don't enjoy, though I do like the feeling afterward. But this is something that I actually enjoy.

[A]

Okay, I'm curious. I got to try one. Gretch. I've never tried that.

[B]

Well, I wonder if you asked your dentist what he would say, because they're all different names, and I don't know if they're, like, all created equal. There's dental picks, interdental brushes. Well, you have a water flosser. But I really have to say sometimes, I mean, again, this is maybe too much information. Sometimes just sitting at my desk because I like to fuss. I like to be drinking something or chewing on a straw or doing something with my mouth while I'm focusing. And sometimes I'll just use my little interdental brush and pick between my teeth as I focus. And I hate to say it, but it actually. It really does help me focus.

[A]

Well, you know what? I wish that there was a word alternative to pick. I just. I hate the word pick.

[B]

No, 100.

[A]

I don't like water pick. I don't like a soft pick. I don't like it.

[B]

Isn't it interesting? Yeah. What would that. Okay, let's brainstorm. What would be some cleaner?

[A]

Yeah, cleaner would be better.

[B]

Or just brusher, like a water brusher.

[A]

I mean, water. That's why I like to say water floss. Because Even floss sounds better.

[B]

Floss sounds better.

[A]

Yeah, but floss is a very graphic term. There's just a visceralness that I don't enjoy to the whole idea of talking about plaque.

[B]

I mean, the whole thing is just not that attractive. Yeah, but it really matters. I mean, that's the thing is it feels sort of optional. But teeth are incredibly important.

[A]

They really are.

[B]

Well, what is that line? Because I have the proverbs of the professions. There's one of dentists, and a lot. A lot of professions have their own version, but it's like only brush the teeth that you want to use, you know, or that you want to keep.

[A]

Yes. There's also floss in the morning.

[B]

Sailors take warning, you know, and then.

[A]

Floss at night to keep your teeth.

[B]

Wait, no, say that again. Sorry. I was so delighted about my sailor. I missed what you said.

[A]

It's something like you floss in the morning to keep your friends, and you floss at night to keep your teeth. I believe that's what it is.

[B]

Oh, okay. I like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sometimes appealing to something other than gum health might make it a more appealing thing. Interesting. Okay, well, it's just branch out beyond. If you're having trouble flossing with regular floss, try something different. Oh, I think there's also, like, flavored floss now where you can get all these, like, bonkers flavors. And so that's kind of interesting.

[A]

Coconut and.

[B]

Yeah, mango.

[A]

Okay, Gretch, finally, what is our quote this week?

[B]

This is a very thought provoking line. I think it comes from the memoir Lab Girl by Hope Jaron. She writes, pretending that things are true is often more fun than knowing they are false. So, Elizabeth, are you feeling happier?

[A]

Yes, I am feeling happier. Thank you to our executive producer, Chuck. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now is the time you can listen ad free. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or go to lemonadapremium.com job. Bye, Gretch.

[B]

Bye, Elizabeth. The best time to start a happiness project is 20 years ago. The second best time is now. So, Elizabeth, how many times did you eat at Winstead's?

[A]

Just once, unfortunately, because it was kind of a quick trip. But we also ate at Q39, so we got in Winstead's and Q39 and two other restaurants. So it was actually a lot of dining out.

[B]

Oh, that's good. From the onward project, if you've been keeping up with the podcast, you know that last month Elizabeth and I went on our first ever reading Retreat, which was amazing. It was so fun, just eating, reading, and sleeping all day, every day. No sightseeing, no scheduling, no stress. And it got us thinking that you could really turn anything into a themed retreat. You could go biking, you could go hiking, you could do a board game retreat with friends, or a binge watching retreat. Whatever you're into, it's all about blocking out time and dedicating yourself to something you love.

[A]

And while you're away, why not host your home on Airbnb? It's an easy, flexible way to take in some extra cash and make the most of your space. And who knows, that cozy reading nook that you enjoy in your house day to day could be the site of someone else's first annual reading retreat. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] host.