More Happier: Is It Always a Bad Idea to Gossip? Plus: Choosing a One-Word Theme for the Year

Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: Happier with Gretchen Rubin
Episode: More Happier: Is It Always a Bad Idea to Gossip? Plus: Choosing a One-Word Theme for the Year
Date: November 15, 2025
Hosts: Gretchen Rubin & Elizabeth Craft

In this lively and personal episode, Gretchen and her sister/cohost, Elizabeth, unpack the surprising value of gossip, the perennial challenge of picking a one-word theme for the new year, and the joy found in shared experiences—even among strangers. The conversation offers both philosophical musings and practical insights, with plenty of real-life anecdotes and laughs in the sisters' signature warm, thoughtful style.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What’s Making Us Happier This Week

[02:36–09:45]

Elizabeth: Shares her excitement about attending a Survivor finale watch party with members of her fantasy league.

• Describes the transition from online chatter to in-person connections:
  “I basically have been in a WhatsApp group with everybody talking about Survivor this whole season and I haven’t met them.” [02:55]
• Details the etiquette and anticipation around group TV watching:
  “We’re meeting at 7 so that we can chat. It starts at 8. You can talk during commercials. But I think there will be an etiquette to be pretty quiet during the actual show.” [06:11]
• Notes the social power of themed parties and instant conversation starters.

Gretchen: Talks about the joy and collective spirit experienced during the New York City Marathon—even as an observer.

• Observes the way shared public events foster local pride and connection:
  “But the enthusiasm for the runners and the pride in the New York City Marathon is so high...we love it. We embrace it. We welcome the runners. We're so proud of everybody who runs.” [09:34]
• Highlights the group cheer that transcends inconvenience.

Memorable Moment:
Elizabeth reminisces about getting stuck during a Chicago marathon:
“It took about an hour and a half to navigate to our hotel.” [10:00]

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2. The Challenge and Power of Picking a One-Word Theme for the Year

[14:23–22:45]

Elizabeth:

• Struggles to land on her 2026 theme word; last year’s choice was “bounce,” symbolized by a kangaroo mug.
• Describes her usual process as poetic and intuitive but notes this year, she feels “blank.”
  “Normally, I think a word just sort of comes to me...and I just know that's the word. And this year I'm just blank.” [17:52]
• Wants a theme that is “meaty” and effervescent, not generic—considers looking for a meaningful symbol (like dolphin or butterfly).

Gretchen:

• Offers advice:
  • Review past theme words to stimulate ideas.
  • Look for words with multiple meanings or metaphorical depth (“Salt” worked for her because of its richness).
  • Encourages considering symbols first to help land on the right word.
  • “I think words that are powerful words are better...So the word step is better than the word delegate...” [16:27]
• Suggests that a visual component helps make a theme more satisfying throughout the year.

Listener Participation:
Gretchen invites listeners to share their own questions or strategies for finding a one-word theme:
“If you have any suggestions, like, are there questions that you ask yourself? Are there exercises you do or recommend that help with this?” [21:31]

Notable Quotes:

• “It’s surprisingly powerful. Don’t you think, Elizabeth?” – Gretchen [21:42]
• “I don’t want to just pick any old word, you know. It’s very important to me.” – Elizabeth [21:56]

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3. Book Spotlight: Holiday Gifts & Recommendations

[22:57–23:32]

Gretchen announces her “read 25 in 25” initiative with Bookshop, inviting listeners to submit their favorite book gift recommendations for the holidays.

• “And very soon, I will send out the full list of recommendations.” [23:27]

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4. Is Gossip Always Bad? Reframing the Value of Gossip

[26:37–31:22]

The Debate:

• Elizabeth: “I don’t think of gossip being associated with value. Usually it’s a negative.” [26:44]
• Gretchen reframes the concept:
  • Recognizes gossip’s bad reputation but points out its ubiquity and social necessity.
  • “We spend about an hour a day gossiping. And what the research shows is that gossip actually has many positive consequences.” [26:50]
• Gossip, she explains, is often neutral or positive—building bonds, relaying news, and helping communities define norms.

Key Insights and Research:

• Gossip can foster closeness, expose misbehavior, and unite people.
• Oxytocin (the “love hormone”) increases during gossip, even compared to other emotional conversations.
  • “What the studies show is that when people are gossiping, their levels [of oxytocin] increase significantly in comparison to non-gossip conversation.” [29:12]
• Sharing observations about people in common can strengthen partnerships and friendships.
• “I use the word gossip because I think it’s kind of a spicy word. It’s more about newsiness, what’s the news?” – Gretchen [29:27]

Rethinking the Word:

Elizabeth notes the need for a new term for positive, observational gossip:
“I do think there could be room for a new word for this, Gretch.” [29:48]

The Takeaway:

• Gretchen’s goal: to socialize more with her husband so they have more “gossip” to share.
• Gossip, when well-intentioned, is a tool for empathy, understanding, and community building.

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5. Weekly Quotation: On Learning and Happiness

[31:27–32:03]

Gretchen shares a quote from T.H. White’s The Sword in the Stone:

“The best thing for being sad is to learn something. That is the only thing which the mind can never exhaust, never alienate, never be tortured by, never fear or distrust, and never dream of regretting.” [31:27]

Elizabeth reflects on finding comfort in learning during a stressful work period.

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Notable Quotes and Moments

• “I love this idea of watching together or experiencing something together and making it into a party situation. It’s so fun.” — Gretchen [07:06]
• “You need a word that where there is a visual for it. I think you and I have both experienced that. That is much more satisfying when there is a way to visualize it.” — Gretchen [22:01]
• “Part of my design year list is to really aim for us to socialize more together, because I think we’ll have more gossip and we’ll have more fun and we’ll have more friends in common, and that’s all good.” — Gretchen [31:08]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:36] “What’s making us happier” segment begins
• [04:44] Watch party etiquette and the fun of themed events
• [09:45] Reflections on citywide marathons and collective joy
• [14:23] Discussion on picking a one-word theme for the year
• [22:57] Bookshop gift recommendations
• [26:37] “Is gossip always bad?”—main discussion starts
• [29:12] Research and positive side of gossip
• [31:27] Weekly quotation and reflections

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Final Thoughts

This episode captures the Rubin sisters’ gift for turning everyday topics—watch parties, annual intentions, and even gossip—into rich explorations of what it means to seek happiness and connection. Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own rituals and relationships, and to embrace the simple, shared joys of life.

Transcript

[Elizabeth]

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[Gretchen]

For instance, have you heard of the Primrose Friends? In every Primrose school classroom, teachers use these 12 lovable puppets to make character development joyful, meaningful and memorable. From exploring generosity with Benjamin the Bear to practicing honesty with Peanut the Pony, every friend plays a special part in helping children learn important values while having plenty of fun along the way.

[Producer or Guest]

We can all use some friends like that.

[Gretchen]

You can learn [e-mail] now enrolling infants through children age 5. That's primroseschools.com for more information. Elizabeth, you know that this year I am hosting Thanksgiving for the second time. Huge bucket list for me. And one of the things that makes it easier to prepare for any kind of big gathering, whether it's Thanksgiving or friendsgiving or any kind of celebration, is knowing that you can go to one place that you know you're gonna get high standards and good prices. And this is why I love going to Whole Foods Market. I can look for the 365 brand and I know that I'm gon get everything that I need and want for a good price with the quality that I can count on.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah, they have everything from low price quality turkey to pantry essentials. And Gretchen, I have to add frozen appetizers which are perfect for someone like me who is not a great cook. I love to get the quiche trio, their butterfly shrimp and breaded calamari. It's all so easy to prepare and so delicious. Enjoy. So many ways to save on your Thanksgiving spread at Whole Foods Market. Lemonada.

[Gretchen]

Hello, we're here for more Happier, a podcast where we get happier happier. It's the weekend. It's more observations and reflections with a little bit of a looser vibe. Hey, Elizabeth.

[Elizabeth]

Hi, Gretchen.

[Gretchen]

Today we'll talk about the challenge of choosing a one word theme for the year and the surprising value of gossip. But first, something making us happier. Elizabeth, what is something that is making you happier?

[Elizabeth]

Okay, Gretch, I have mentioned my survivor fantasy league that I am in, which I think I might have even said at one point was making me happier, which it absolutely is. Well, we are having a finale watch party at a place called Vitello's in Studio City and I am so excited to go and watch with the group. I haven't met anyone. I mean, there's like a couple people I know just for random reasons, but I basically have been in a WhatsApp group with everybody talking about Survivor this whole season and I haven't met them.

[Gretchen]

I have so many questions. So first, how many people are we talking about?

[Elizabeth]

Well, I'm not sure that's a good question. I think there's probably like 60 people in the group, but a lot of them are on the east coast. Oh, yes. It is a bicoastal group. So I'm not sure how many people will be at the Watch party. I'm thinking at least 20.

[Gretchen]

And do you have a sense of like, this person is connected to this personality? Like, have they emerged as full blown individuals to you or is it just a constant stream of chatter where you just join in the conversation?

[Elizabeth]

A bit of both, yes. Several people have emerged with a certain personality. You know, the people who comment the most, obviously.

[Gretchen]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

You know, I'm less clear of who they are.

[Gretchen]

Right.

[Elizabeth]

But of course, meeting them will really help. And then next season is Survivor 50, which is a huge deal. It's the 50th season, so that's going to be like this epic season. So it'll be really nice to meet some, some of the people before then so that when we go through Survivor 50, I know who's who.

[Gretchen]

And how long has this group been in existence?

[Elizabeth]

I think several years. You know, this is my second season, but I think they've been together, some of them, for, you know, many seasons.

[Gretchen]

So what is this place? Is this like a restaurant, bar type place?

[Elizabeth]

Yes, it is a restaurant in Studio City. It's actually famous because it is where Robert Blake and his wife ate dinner right before she was killed. But it is a famous neighborhood place with an upstairs room. I think that they're gonna give us for the watch party.

[Gretchen]

And will people wear nametags, do you think?

[Elizabeth]

I don't know. And I was even thinking, Gretch, I don't have any Survivor gear and you know, I like to wear gear.

[Gretchen]

Elizabeth, you gotta get on that. I know. And so is it like, I don't even know how all this works. Is it like, were you backing a specific person? Like, on your name tag would you say, like, this is my name and this is or it doesn't work like that.

[Elizabeth]

Well, you could. But yes, we all had our picks. Now mine, unfortunately was out the very first week.

[Gretchen]

Oh, okay. Well played.

[Elizabeth]

So I have been out of the game.

[Producer or Guest]

Okay.

[Elizabeth]

Since Week one.

[Producer or Guest]

Okay.

[Elizabeth]

Then every week we pick our boot pick, meaning who do you think's gonna go home this week? I've had more success there.

[Gretchen]

Oh, I see.

[Elizabeth]

But I don't know. I don't know what it's gonna be like, but I defin. Need to get some gear to wear to this event.

[Gretchen]

No, absolutely. So my final question is. Because I have never been to a finale party, but I love the idea, and I know you've been to several.

[Producer or Guest]

The tension that I would worry about is that if you're with a bunch of people, you want to talk to them, but aren't you literally watching the finale? What is the etiquette on the actual watching of it?

[Elizabeth]

Yes, we're meeting at 7 so that we can chat. It starts at 8. You can talk during commercials. But I think there will be an etiquette to be pretty quiet during the actual show. I love a finale party.

[Producer or Guest]

So like the Game of Thrones finale party, literally everybody falls silent and just watches together.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Producer or Guest]

Interesting. One of my favorite ideas because I just love the name of it so much. Our founding producer, Henry Malofsky, who we love so much, I think it was he who told me that way back in the early days of podcasts, you know, there was the enormously popular and influential show Serial, and he said a bunch of podcast people, audio people, would get together and listen to it for the first time. You know, you can listen to it whenever you want. Obviously, it's not like a TV show, but they would play it out loud and everybody would listen while they ate breakfast cereal. So it was like a brunch thing, and you would eat. It was cereal and cereal.

[Elizabeth]

That's so funny.

[Producer or Guest]

I thought that was so fun. I think it was Henry who told me about it. But anyway, so I love this idea of watching together or experiencing something together and making it into a party situation. It's so fun.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah. And then, you know, you're with a bunch of people who want to talk about it. So it's super fun.

[Gretchen]

This is the thing.

[Producer or Guest]

It's a bunch of strangers, but you can instantly talk to any of them because it's like, who did you pick and what happened to them and how are you doing and what do you think and what's going to happen next year? You just have so much to talk.

[Elizabeth]

About and big prop scratch to Amanda Pally, who's the person who organizes this entire thing. It's a lot of work.

[Gretchen]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

And she also organized the party, so I give her a big gold star.

[Producer or Guest]

Yes. That does Deserve a big gold star.

[Elizabeth]

Yes. Somebody's gotta be in charge. As we have discussed.

[Gretchen]

As we've said, sometimes you have to agree. I'm gonna be the one that's gonna herd the cats on this.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah. But how about you? What's making you happier?

[Gretchen]

Well, mine is kind of related in that it's about group cheer, though I was not myself a participant. So recently was the New York City Marathon, which is a huge thing in New York City. So many people participate. So many people watch and make signs, and it's. It's very disruptive because they close down all these roads, and it's just a big thing. But there is a huge level of inconvenience. But the enthusiasm for the runners and the pride in the New York City Marathon is so high. I have many friends who have run it multiple times. But this year, it was kind of interesting because I was landing. I was in Kentucky, and I was returning from Kentucky, and. And right in the middle of when the runners were running. And so I was like, I have no idea how that's gonna go. So I took a subway back from the airport, which was really fun because it was full of people who obviously had gone to cheer someone on and then now were going on somewhere else. So they had balloons, they had signs. It was too early, so there were no actual marathoners. This bonkers thing. You will see them walking around with their silver blanket and their thing around their neck. You see them walking to the subway and then taking the subway home. Somehow I'm like, I would expect stretchers.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Gretchen]

Yes. Ride a horse back to your apartment. How can you walk back after running the marathon? But it's funny, but this was all of the supporters. It was packed here. It was a Sunday midday. Usually there wouldn't be a lot of people on the subway. It was packed, packed, packed. But it just reminded me, I love New York City. I love New York City spirit. And even though it was kind of a major inconvenience for everybody, we love it. We embrace it. We welcome the runners. We're so proud of everybody who runs. It's something that just makes you happy to be with other people.

[Producer or Guest]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

Gretch, you know what this is reminding me of? When we were on our happier live tour, when we landed in Chicago during a marathon and we could not get to our hotel.

[Producer or Guest]

That was very funny.

[Elizabeth]

Took about an hour and a half to navigate to our hotel.

[Producer or Guest]

No.

[Gretchen]

And we were very indignant that we hadn't been informed.

[Producer or Guest]

It's like, who's gonna tell you?

[Gretchen]

But you feel like there should be some warning that flashes up that says, like, by the way, do you know that this giant marathon is going on? Yes, exactly that, Elizabeth. Because at first we weren't really paying attention. Then it's like, wait a minute, something's going on. Something's going on. What is? I was like, oh, by the way, there's a marathon.

[Elizabeth]

Yes. I personally would not want, want to run a marathon, but I absolutely support everybody who does. My friend Corrine did it for her 40th birthday and I was still in awe of it.

[Gretchen]

It's a major accomplishment. I think for many people. It's a bucket list thing. What's more, even more surprising to me is like, I have friends who have done like 17 marathons and I just. It's bonkers.

[Elizabeth]

Yes. Okay, Gretch, coming up, there's something I've been meaning to ask you, but first, the spring. So we know a lot of you listening out there work in healthcare and wellness. First of all, because you probably don't hear this enough, thank you. Thanks for always showing up and doing what you do. Second of all, if you don't know about Figs, it is time. Figs entire mission is to empower people that work in healthcare by making the best scrubs, apparel and accessories. Figs make super thoughtfully designed scrubs and high quality, innovative materials that are antimicrobial and wrinkle resistant, but still super soft and breathable.

[Gretchen]

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[Elizabeth]

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[Gretchen]

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[Producer or Guest]

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[Gretchen]

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[Elizabeth]

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[Gretchen]

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[Producer or Guest]

Something you've been meaning to ask me.

[Gretchen]

What is your question?

[Elizabeth]

Okay, well, as we look ahead, 2026 is around the corner. So of course I've started thinking about what is my word going to be for 2026.

[Gretchen]

Just in case people don't know, every year we do design your year, which.

[Producer or Guest]

Is a whole big thing.

[Gretchen]

One thing is you do your list like 26 for 26 because it's 26 things you want to get done in 2026.

[Producer or Guest]

There will be a challenge that we will give ourselves and listeners which is yet to be revealed. And then you and I always pick a one word theme. So that's what you're talking about is the one word theme. Okay, continue.

[Elizabeth]

So this word, my theme is bounce. Cause I wanted to bounce into the future, bounce back. Bounce is positive and it's propulsive, kinetic.

[Producer or Guest]

Kangaroo was your symbol?

[Elizabeth]

Yes, Kangaroo is my symbol. I had my wonderful kangaroo mug. Cause kangaroos bounce. But I am stumped on a word for 2026. So I'm wondering, do you have ways or exercises for me to do to come up with the perfect word?

[Producer or Guest]

Well, let's review our words. I think that's the first thing, is to think about what you've had in the past. Just to kind of loosen up your mind to get you back into that zone. So I will remind you that you.

[Gretchen]

Have picked because we've been doing this a long time now, Lizza.

[Producer or Guest]

I didn't realize how long it's been. So your words were free time style, Hot Wheels novel, which you had double meanings. Home control number six, which, by the way, now you've crushed because your blood sugar's under control. So, well, lighter Butterfly. Step, Book. And then this year's bounce and mine. Upgrade. Bigger. Lighten up. Repurpose. Delegate. Infrastructure. Growth. Open. Salt. Wave door. My words have been getting a lot better as we've been going along. Okay, so here are a few of my suggestions.

[Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Gretchen]

I think words that are powerful words are better. So the word step is better than the word delegate, though delegate was a really important word. Maybe there's a more metaphorical or powerful way. It's kind of a jargony word. So I think a word that has multiple meanings, if you can do that. Novel had multiple meanings. Step had meanings for me. Wave had meanings. Salt ended up being a super great theme for me because salt is good. Salt sweetens bitter things. It cleanses. It's associated with tears. It's associated with the ocean. It makes sour things sweeter. It's the only rock we eat. It used to be super precious, but now it's very available. So it just had a million meanings. But maybe those are better ideas when you're sort of narrowing it down but you're stumped at the beginning.

[Elizabeth]

Yes. I don't know what I want in the year that's sort of different from what I want now. And part of this may just be because I'm. It's not. It still feels like I've got a lot to accomplish for the rest of the year. I don't know, but it's like, what could I think about?

[Gretchen]

So it's that you sort of can't foresee. Feels like there's so much left in 2025, you can't project yourself into 2026. Or you feel like I'm just positing.

[Elizabeth]

Maybe that's a reason why. Because normally I just stop. I Think I ponder a word. Just sort of comes to me, you know, in almost like a poetic fashion. And I just know that's the word. And this year I'm just blank.

[Gretchen]

So it's not the fact that you're sort of like, oh, I want. I want the same things for next year as I wanted for this year. You can't figure that out yet.

[Elizabeth]

I don't know. I'm just wondering, how do I figure it out?

[Gretchen]

I think it's the kind of thing where you just have to keep surfacing it and thinking, because I know what you mean. I had two words that I was thinking of. One was like a more intensely pleasurable word, and one that was more transcendent. And so I had to decide which vibe did I think I wanted to lean into more in 2026. And so I picked a more transcendent one, which I will not yet reveal. But do you feel like you want something more on the fun, whimsical, energetic, or more on the full of transcendent and timeless beauty?

[Elizabeth]

You know, that is a good question. I was actually pondering even the word beauty for a word, because I was interested in looking and in appreciating the beauty in my life and the beauty around me. But I decided beauty just, I don't know, wasn't enough.

[Gretchen]

Wasn't quite right.

[Elizabeth]

Wasn't quite right.

[Gretchen]

Well, then there's also. You could build on that. So you could have the one, like, look or notice.

[Elizabeth]

Those aren't fun words, though. See, I do like to have a word like butterfly. It's just a fun word. You like to think. Think about a butterfly? Yes, I like a word that has some effervescence, I guess.

[Gretchen]

Is there a symbol like an animal or an item that captures that? Like, I always think dolphin is a really good. Because dolphins are playful, but they're also intellectual. They're graceful, they're energetic. Is there anything like that that calls to you that.

[Elizabeth]

See, that's an interesting suggestion. Think about the symbol and then pick the word. Maybe I'll try that approach. But I want to be specific, you know, I don't want to just be like, oh, light and beautiful and da, da, da. It's gotta be something that has some teeth, you know, it's gotta be meaty. I can't just pick a word.

[Producer or Guest]

Sure, sure, sure. No, you want something specific.

[Gretchen]

I think with each of us, there's.

[Producer or Guest]

Kind of that feeling like, ooh, this is it.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah. But I like the suggestion of thinking of a symbol, maybe. Cause normally I think of the word. And then I land on a symbol to go with it.

[Producer or Guest]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

So I'll take that approach and I'll let you know how it works.

[Producer or Guest]

Well, I will say we got that weekend house and I was trying to think of, well, what do I want it to be? What do I want the vibe to be? And then I realized lake. You know how everything is core now, like cottagecore or castle core or whatever. So I was like, lake core. So it's like, are there frogs? Yes. Are there cattails? Yes, it's lake. But it wouldn't be a good one word symbol, because it doesn't hold though for somebody else. It could be a good word. It is interesting, Elizabeth, because usually you have these effortlessly. I remember with Step, you wordsmithed it, but you knew what you wanted it to be.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah, that was a little bit of.

[Producer or Guest]

A process, but that was like, step into the future. Step, move and walk. Okay. Well, I think even just by putting it in your mind.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah, I think you're right. Surfacing it often and thinking about it also in terms of a symbol, those two things I think will help.

[Gretchen]

So, listeners, if you have any suggestions, like, are there questions that you ask yourself? Are there exercises that you do or recommend that help with this? Because it is. It's surprisingly powerful. Don't you think, Elizabeth?

[Elizabeth]

Yes. And it's such a big part of my kind of getting ready for the year. And it brings me so much pleasure throughout the year just to revisit it and think about it.

[Gretchen]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

So I don't want to just pick any old word, you know, it's very important to me.

[Gretchen]

And you need a word that where there is a visual for it. I think you and I have both experienced that. That is much more satisfying when there is a way to visualize it.

[Elizabeth]

Well, your wave, remember wave was such a good one.

[Gretchen]

Oh, that was. Because then everybody would send the great wave. Yeah, that was great. Who knew that that is now the most often reproduced image. Now I go see it. Whenever there's an exhibit of that, of any of those, the works of Hokusai, I go see them and I have a claim on his work, which I love so much. So, yeah, that was great. But like growth, that wasn't a very good word. I wanted growth. Growth was important. But I should have done more to make that, bring that to life.

[Producer or Guest]

Yes.

[Elizabeth]

It should have been like beanstalk or something.

[Producer or Guest]

Yeah.

[Gretchen]

Well, that's a good one, Elizabeth, right there.

[Elizabeth]

It doesn't resonate with me. You know, it's a good word, but not Necessarily for me, it's gotta be very personal. All right, Gretchen, what is our Spotlight on a tool this week?

[Gretchen]

Okay. You and I both love books, and we will often give books as gifts, and we will request to get books as gifts. And I am partnering with Bookshop to provide a way for people to find the perfect book to give as a gift for the holiday season. And I would love to hear everyone's recommendations. What are their favorite books? What have they loved the most? What do they give the most? Submit [e-mail] read2525 and. And very soon, I will send out the full list of recommendations.

[Elizabeth]

Oh, my gosh, Gretch, that is going to be a long list. I know.

[Gretchen]

Love it.

[Elizabeth]

That is so fun. I can't wait to get that list. All right, coming up, there is something you've been meaning to tell me. But first, this break.

[Gretchen]

You're ready for the holidays. The turkey's been going since this morning. The sides are perfectly seasoned. The out of towners have a bed, couch, or futon to crash on for the night. All that's left to take care of is your peace of mind. That's why ADT is here.

[Elizabeth]

With their professionally installed home security systems, you get protection that helps you feel safe. When every second Counts, count on ADT. Visit ADT.com or call 1-800-ADT ASAP. When every second counts, count on ADT. This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. Gretchen, way back when I started my other podcast, Happier in Hollywood, you told me, elizabeth, start a website. And did I listen to you? Not for a long time. I do not want our listeners to do what I did. Start a website immediately when you have a business or something you're interested in, because it will only help you. And Squarespace is truly the perfect place to do that.

[Gretchen]

Yeah, Squarespace is the all in one platform to build and grow your online presence. You know, whether you're starting a passion project, you're promoting your comedy, or your podcast, or you're turning a side hustle into a business, Squarespace makes it easy to stand out online. And if you offer services or run events, Squarespace lets you book clients, send invoices, and get paid all in one place. Head to squarespace.com happy for a free trial. And when you're ready to Launch, use offer code Happy to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[Elizabeth]

As the air turns crisp and the holidays draw near, comfort becomes the best gift of all. Quint's delivers layers that last. Sweaters, outerwear and everyday essentials that feel luxurious, look timeless and make holiday dressing and gifting effortless. Gretch, you know how much I love quince. Their cashmere sweaters are in my rotation a few times a week in the winter. And my latest quince purchase is something I'm going to be wearing all winter. It's a featherless, quilted, long puffer jacket in silk and white. You know, off white is my new signature color, so I needed a white jacket. I love it.

[Gretchen]

Step into the holiday season with layers made to feel good, look polished and last from quince, perfect for gifting or keeping for yourself. Go to quince.com Gretchen for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com Gretchen to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com Gretchen all right, Gretchen, what have.

[Elizabeth]

You been meaning to tell me?

[Gretchen]

Okay. I have been thinking about the value of gossip.

[Elizabeth]

That's interesting because I don't think of gossip being associated with value. Usually it's a negative.

[Gretchen]

That is true. Gossip has a very bad reputation. There's even an old saying that great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, and small minds discuss people. But actually talking about people who are not present, which is gossip, is a ubiquitous feature of human communication. We spend about an hour a day gossiping. And what the research shows is that gossip actually has many positive consequences. Like you don't want to gossip if you're spreading a hurtful rumor or you're wasting time. But it can help us feel closer to each other. It can help us understand the values of our community. It unifies people. It can expose misbehavior. And often gossip, it turns out, is just neutral. It's just newsy. It's just like, oh, these people are going to sell their house or whatever. What I realized is that I want Jamie and me to be gossiping more. Because the thing about gossip is when you know people in common, that's when it's really satisfying. And Jamie and I often will because of our work and just various things. We will often do social things or things after work separately. And I'm thinking we really need to socialize together more. And then we'll have more to gossip about because we will share more relationships and more people in common. So really, for me, wanting to embrace gossip is really like I want to embrace really trying to socialize with Jamie more.

[Elizabeth]

That totally resonates with me. I would love to be able to gossip more with Adam. And the same thing, I do a lot of my socializing on my own. So I'll gossip with the people. Yeah. Who I've been socializing with.

[Gretchen]

Right.

[Elizabeth]

But I would like to also be able to gossip with him in a nice way. Yeah, you don't wanna be like nasty. It's just more sharing information. That's one of our favorite things to do when we're home, is sit with mom and dad.

[Producer or Guest]

Yes.

[Elizabeth]

And just gossip about the people we know. Again, not in a negative way, but just like, oh, so and so's doing this, and this person went to Europe for spring break and this person did that. It's just fun. And it is community building in that way.

[Gretchen]

It is. And you're right to say that it is fun because what the research shows is that oxytocin, which is, you know, known as the love hormone, you know, it's associated with pleasure, cooperation, positive feelings.

[Producer or Guest]

And, and what the studies show is that when people are gossiping, their levels increase significantly in comparison to non gossip conversation.

[Gretchen]

Even if it's emotional non gossip conversation. There's just something in us. Humans are, we are very, very social creatures.

[Producer or Guest]

We're among the most social creatures on the planet. And this is part of how we maintain these bonds is that we're intensely interested in what other people are doing and saying and thinking and feeling and watching and being interested in. And I use the word gossip because I think it's kind of a spicy word. It's more about newsiness, what's the news?

[Elizabeth]

But that makes me think that there does need to be another word for this because it's not just news. Because if you've socialized with someone, then it's about observations. Right. Sharing observations like, oh, so and so really seems to like their new job, or so and so seems unhappy with this. I guess that falls more on the traditional gossip side, but I do think there could be room for a new word for this. Gretch.

[Producer or Guest]

Well, and also there's kind gossip where you're like, well, if you know, somebody has seemed really down lately, have you noticed that? What could be going on? As a friend, you're exchanging information because you're trying to understand if somebody needs help. So in a way you could say, well, it's negative gossip because you're saying something negative about somebody behind their back, but it's all about the intention. So you're right, it's too bad that the word gossip has this nasty spreading rumors aspect to it. Whereas in fact, a Lot of times it is like, oh, my gosh, she seems so happy with her new husband, or it's so excited they have a new puppy or whatever. Oh, Gretchen and Jamie seem somewhat overwhelmed by their new puppy. I think they're kind of stressed out. You'd be like, oh, you noticed that? What a good friend.

[Elizabeth]

It's really just like, noticing things in people is interesting, and it also sometimes illuminates things in ourselves, so there is a value.

[Producer or Guest]

Exactly. Exactly. And then I just. I really do want to make a point. Part of my design year list is to really aim for us to socialize more together, because I think we'll have more gossip and we'll have more fun and we'll have more friends in common, and that's all good.

[Elizabeth]

Yes. Okay. I'm all for it, Gretch.

[Gretchen]

All right, all right.

[Elizabeth]

What is our quotation this week?

[Gretchen]

This quotation comes from T.H. white's novel the Sword in the Stone. And this is when the sorcerer Merlin tells the future King Arthur, the best thing for being sad is to learn something that is the only thing which the mind can never exhaust, never alienate, never be tortured by, never fear or distrust, and never dream of regretting.

[Elizabeth]

That especially is good for me this week, Gretch, because I feel like I'm very stressed about work right now, and so I'm listening to a book about the American Revolution because it's countering my stretch, learning something new.

[Gretchen]

That's a beautiful response. So, Elizabeth, are you feeling happier?

[Elizabeth]

Yes, I am feeling happier. Thank you to Chuck. And if you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now is the perfect time. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or go to lemonadapremium.com. bye, Gretch.

[Gretchen]

Bye, Elizabeth. The best time to start a happiness project is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

[Elizabeth]

You know what I have queued up to read next, Gretch?

[Gretchen]

Oh, what?

[Elizabeth]

The Thorn Birds. Remember the Thornbirds?

[Gretchen]

Oh, yes.

[Elizabeth]

I watched the miniseries. I don't think I ever actually read it. So I've decided now is the time.

[Gretchen]

Well, that'll be many hours of listening, as I recall. That is a very long book.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Gretchen]

From the onward project.

[Craig Robinson]

Hi, Gretchen. Craig Robinson and my little sister Michelle here. We host a new podcast called IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. We know you're the queen of giving advice, so we wanted to get a few tips from you.

[Elizabeth]

You know, Gretchen, a lot of our listeners are going through some major life changes. What advice do you have for folks who are trying to stay grounded in the midst of major life transitions.

[Gretchen]

Craig and Michelle, I am so happy to be talking to you. Here are a few questions that might help us gain perspective. So consider questions like this. What activities take up my time but are not particularly useful or stimulating for me? Do I spend a lot of time on something that's important to someone else but is not very important to me? If I could magically change one habit in my life, what would I choose? And here's a question Would I like to have more time in solitude, restorative solitude, or would I like to have more time with friends? You know, just thinking about questions like this can help us start to figure out how we might make our lives happier. With greater self knowledge, we're better able to make hard decisions that reflect ourselves our own nature, our own interests, our own values. In my own case, I have found that the more my life reflects my nature, the happier I get and the more grounded I feel when I'm going through a period of major change or transition. For more great advice, search for IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. Wherever you get podcast, you can listen to Issa Rae on letting go of certain friendships, Keke Palmer on why disappointment is actually the key to career success, Seth and Lauren Rogan on caring for aging parents and so many more.