More Happier: Watercoloring, Novel-Writing & 80’s Bestsellers

Summary

Podcast Summary: "More Happier: Watercoloring, Novel-Writing & 80’s Bestsellers"

Happier with Gretchen Rubin
Hosts: Gretchen Rubin & Elizabeth Craft
Release Date: July 12, 2025

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Introduction: Embracing Happiness Through Personal Interests

In this vibrant episode of Happier with Gretchen Rubin, Gretchen and her sister Elizabeth Craft delve into their personal journeys toward happiness by exploring their 25 for 25 lists. Gretchen shares insights into her daily watercoloring habit, while Elizabeth reminisces about her love for 1980s bestselling novels. Their conversation seamlessly intertwines personal anecdotes with practical advice on cultivating joy through meaningful activities.

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Elizabeth's 25 for 25: Rediscovering 80’s Bestsellers

Rereading Beloved Novels

Elizabeth Craft reveals that her current source of happiness stems from revisiting classic 1980s blockbuster bestsellers. She mentions specific titles such as Other Side of Midnight by Sidney Sheldon and Scruples by Judith Krantz.

• Elizabeth Craft [00:40]: "All right, Gretch. This is very summer. I feel like what is making me happier is rereading all of these novels from the 80s that I love. Big 80s blockbuster bestsellers."

Motivation Behind the Choice

Elizabeth was inspired to revisit these novels after reading Climbing in Heels by Elaine Goldsmith Thomas, a novel set in the 80s about female Hollywood agents. This rekindled her appreciation for the era's distinctive fashion and culture.

Discussion on Cultural Nostalgia

The sisters discuss the unique vibe of late 80s movies and literature, highlighting how certain works remain enjoyable irrespective of their critical reception. Gretchen quotes G.K. Chesterton to emphasize the public's preference for specific genres, even if the quality varies.

• Gretchen Rubin [04:07]: “...the public likes a certain kind of literature and likes that kind of literature even when it is bad. Better than other kind of literature even when it is good.”

Impact on Happiness

Elizabeth appreciates the familiarity and escapism these novels provide, allowing her to connect with the past and understand cultural contexts like Beverly Hills, which she hadn't experienced before.

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Gretchen's 25 for 25: The Challenge of Daily Watercoloring

Commitment to a Daily Habit

Gretchen Rubin discusses her goal of watercoloring every day, a task aligned with her upholder personality and her desire for structure. However, she acknowledges the challenges posed by her new puppy, Taffy, leading to occasional lapses.

• Gretchen Rubin [11:30]: “So doing something every day really appeals to me. And I really did not think that this would be that hard to do.”

Struggles and Adaptations

Gretchen shares the difficulty of maintaining daily watercolor sessions without feeling burdened. She contemplates being more flexible to keep the habit enjoyable rather than feeling trapped by strict rules.

• Gretchen Rubin [13:23]: “The point of it is to stay engaged. And so if I some days that just doesn't work. That's okay as long as I'm still achieving my ultimate aim actively.”

Strategies to Maintain the Habit

She reflects on techniques from her book Better Than Before, such as scheduling, cues, and pairing habits, to reinforce her watercoloring routine. Gretchen contemplates adopting her college roommate's husband's intense exercise regimen, which relies on spontaneous motivation, though she finds it unsatisfying.

• Elizabeth Craft [14:21]: “...if you're running around and you just simply never have that moment to say, oh, what do I need to do?”

Embracing Flexibility

Ultimately, Gretchen decides to loosen her strict approach, allowing herself to miss days without guilt, thereby fostering a more sustainable and enjoyable creative process.

• Gretchen Rubin [16:28]: “I've just decided to let myself be a little bit looser on this than I would usually choose to be.”

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Family Traditions: Celebrating the Fourth of July

Creating Meaningful Traditions

Gretchen shares her efforts to transform the Fourth of July into a significant family holiday, integrating activities like jumping into a lake and watching classic 80s films. This initiative aims to establish lasting family traditions that foster togetherness and joy.

• Gretchen Rubin [05:00]: “One of my big project Emptiness endeavors is to try to make the Fourth of July kind of a major family holiday.”

Engagement and Participation

Despite minor hiccups, such as forgetting to serve certain dishes, the family enjoys the festive atmosphere, emphasizing the importance of continuity in traditions.

• Gretchen Rubin [06:12]: “So it was just really fun. It was beautiful. It wasn't too hot. So we just sat by the lake and talked and drank coffee and ran around after the Dogs.”

Planning for the Future

Elizabeth expresses enthusiasm for making the Fourth of July celebration a staple tradition, highlighting the success of the second year and looking forward to continued participation.

• Elizabeth Craft [07:34]: “Definitely next year, I want to be there.”

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Spotlight Segments: Tools and Recommendations

Spotlight on a Tool: Bookshop’s 30-Day Summer Reading Challenge

Gretchen announces a collaboration with Bookshop for a 30-day summer reading challenge hosted within the Happier app. Participants can track their reading streaks and compete for prizes, enhancing their happiness through the joy of reading.

• Gretchen Rubin [17:09]: “Any reading counts. Novels, magazines, just a few pages before bed...”

Podcast Recommendation: Love with Jen Hatmaker

Elizabeth recommends Love with Jen Hatmaker, a podcast focused on honesty, joy, and courage, aligning with their shared values of fostering happiness.

• Elizabeth Craft [17:43]: “Jen is a New York Times bestselling author whose life's work is helping women show up for their honesty, joy, and courage.”

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Balancing Creative Projects: Elizabeth’s Novel-Writing Journey

Navigating Multiple Roles

Elizabeth discusses the challenges of balancing her novel-writing aspirations with her demanding career in Hollywood. To prioritize her novel, she and her writing partner Sarah established "Novel July," dedicating the month exclusively to writing.

• Elizabeth Craft [21:20]: “Now, having said that, although, yes, we are making some progress...”

Overcoming Obstacles

Despite unexpected demands from Hollywood, Elizabeth emphasizes the importance of distinguishing between urgent tasks and important goals, striving to maintain focus on completing her novel.

• Elizabeth Craft [22:31]: “Urgent versus important... the novel is very important.”

Process and Progress

Elizabeth shares insights into their writing process, including major rewrites and the difficulty of concluding the story. Encouragement from loved ones, like Sarah’s stepmom Anna, motivates them to persevere.

• Elizabeth Craft [23:42]: “Anna had read what we had so far, and Sarah said she keeps asking her, when are you finishing the book?”

Future Plans

While acknowledging the complexities of meeting deadlines and aligning with optimal publishing times, Elizabeth remains optimistic about advancing her novel project.

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Inspirational Quotation

Mark Twain on Goodness

Gretchen shares a favorite quote by Mark Twain from Following the Equator, resonating with her role as a "happiness bully" who encourages others to pursue goodness effortlessly.

• Gretchen Rubin [28:46]: “To be good is noble, but to show others how to be good is nobler, and no trouble.”

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Closing Thoughts: Embracing the Journey to Happiness

The episode concludes with heartfelt exchanges between Gretchen and Elizabeth, reinforcing their commitment to personal growth and supporting each other's pursuits. Gretchen expresses excitement about reading Elizabeth's upcoming novel, symbolizing the mutual encouragement that underpins their relationship.

• Gretchen Rubin [29:32]: “The best time to start a happiness project is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.”

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This episode of Happier with Gretchen Rubin beautifully encapsulates the essence of finding joy in both nostalgic comforts and creative endeavors. Through candid conversations and shared experiences, Gretchen and Elizabeth offer listeners relatable insights into building lasting happiness through intentional habits and meaningful traditions.

Transcript

[Elizabeth Craft]

Lemonada.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Hello. We're here for more Happier, a podcast where we talk about getting happier. Join us for some weekend listening. It's observations and reflections, but a little bit of a looser weekend vibe. Hey, Elizabeth.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Hi, Gretchen.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Today we'll talk about one of the Items on my 25 for 25 list and how that's going, and also something that was on Elizabeth's 25 for 25 list and how that's going for her. But first, something making us happier. Elizabeth, what's making you happier these days?

[Elizabeth Craft]

All right, Gretch. This is very summer. I feel like what is making me happier is rereading all of these novels from the 80s that I love. Big 80s blockbuster bestsellers.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Ah, like what?

[Elizabeth Craft]

So I reread the Other side of Midnight by Sidney Sheldon, which I remembered loving, but I had no memory of it whatsoever. Now I'm reading Scruples by Judith Krantz. I think Judith Krantz is probably like the writer of the 80s blockbuster novel. Right. Or one of them. And I have on deck to read next. I also got Princess Daisy by Judith Krantz.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I remember loving both of those novels, especially Scruples. I want to go reread it right this second. Does it hold up?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Maybe not as much as I expected, I will say, but very enjoyable. It's just fun to be back in that world. I think I was motivated to do this because I read this novel by Elaine Goldsmith Thomas called Climbing in Heels, which just came out, but it was set in the 80s, so it was like about three female Hollywood agents in the 80s. So it got me sort of craving, like, the 80s power suits and the big hair and jewelry and all of that. So it put me in a mindset to go on to go read these books. And it's funny because I'm reading Scruples, which is about this boutique in Beverly Hills called Scruples. And of course, when I read it initially, I'd never been to Los Angeles, certainly never been to Beverly Hills. So it's fun reading it now, understanding all of that.

[Gretchen Rubin]

That. Yes. No, it's like everything when you go back to it, if you can remember your earlier experience reading it, then the parallax is very interesting.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah. So I'm really having fun with that.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, it's funny because here's a spoiler alert. I'm going to talk about the fact that our parents were with my family for the fourth of July. One of the things we did is we watched a couple movies from the late 80s. We watched working Girl, which is so good. So good. Every line is funny. $6,000, and it's not even leather. You know, it's. And then we also watched broadcast news, which is so incredibly prescient.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, I think Sarah and I were just talking about that on Happier in Hollywood the other day because we've been talking about crying at work, whether it's okay or not. Yes, because there's the famous scenes of Holly Hunter, who was the boss, would go in her hotel room and wrap up the telephone, the cord around the telephone, and then just bawl really hard for a couple of minutes, and then she'd go out and be fine. And that always cracked me up.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Do you remember the scene where there's frantic. Everything she's yelling, she's like, don't tell me about parking problems. Like, she's barking away. And the boss is standing there very quietly, and he goes, I had no idea she was this good. Anyway, I could go on and on with great lines for both of them.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And then I realized that When Harry Met Sally is also of that vintage. Like, they were all came out in the space of a couple years. So there is something about that late 80s. There was a particular vibe. If you like that vibe, then you really like it. And if you don't like that vibe, then it's probably not for. But if you like that vibe, probably things that aren't even that good, you enjoy because you're like, I like that flavor in my mind.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. Which is your thing, that there are certain things that people like, no matter if they're good or bad. And there are other things that people don't like, whether they're good or bad.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh, Elizabeth. So here's the quotation that you're thinking of by G.K. chesterton. He wrote, the public does not like bad literature. The public likes a certain kind of literature and likes that kind of literature even when it is bad. Better than other kind of literature even when it is good. And I just think I like that kind of movie even if it isn't very good, because I just like it.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So true.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Although the ones you mentioned happen to be excellent.

[Gretchen Rubin]

They happen to be excellent. Yes, they are.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So what about you, Gretch? What's making you more happier?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, the Fourth of July, as I said, so one of my big project Emptiness endeavors is to try to make the Fourth of July kind of a major family holiday. Because in the past, we really didn't have us and do anything that special for the Fourth of July. Of course, our mother's birthday is the Fourth of July. So that made it a little bit special. But I just thought, it's just kind of a good family holiday. It's right kind of in the middle of the summer. Everything slows down around that time. Well, now we have this house on a lake. It just. It felt like a very Fourth of July opportunity. And so I was like, okay. So we started small with the first year, and this was the second year. And I felt like, okay, this is the summer where I either needed to really make it happen and get it set as a family tradition, or it might just drift away. You know how sometimes you have these little attempts and then they just fritter away? Especially if there's nobody else wanting to do it. Where I would say, the rest of my family was happy to participate, but they weren't rubbing their hands together, coming up with Fourth of July ideas to double down. One of the things I thought is, it'll feel more festive if we have family. And you guys couldn't come. Cause Jack had camp. But mom and dad came, and that was special. Cause it's Mom's birthday. So one of my things is, let's all jump in the lake together. So we did that ceremoniously. That was really fun. I played Great American Songbook because I feel like that's kind of American, and that's music that I really like. Even though I'm not much of a music person, I do really like the Great American Songbook. Okay, so, Elizabeth, you know how in our family, there's the thing that happens where a lot of times there'll be a big meal and mom will forget to serve something?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh, we forgot about the green beans, or, oh, we have the rolls, but we forgot to put the pan on the table. It's just something that happens.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And not every meal, but I would say fairly every few. Something just. We just forget. So I said to Eliza and Eleanor over and over and over, we have to have a red, white, and blue food. So what is it gonna be? And they're like, okay, it'll be strawberries, blueberries, and we'll make homemade whipped cream. Like, that's great. Completely forgot to serve it until the next day. Oh, but it was still fine. And we had it. And that was great. But it was just. I was like, that's good. That feels very typical family that we would forget to serve something. So it was just really fun. It was beautiful. It wasn't too hot. So we just sat by the lake and talked and drank coffee and ran around after the Dogs. And it was really. And then we watched broadcast news, which wasn't Jaws, which I think is. Jaws is like the official.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But it did feel like we all watched a movie together, so it was sort of like a family activity. There's only so many times I want to watch Jaws. I know it was an incredibly important movie in the history of moviemaking, but I get it.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, it looked incredible. I mean, I saw a lot of videos. I was asking everyone to send me videos, and they did. And photos. It looked amazing. Definitely next year, I want to be there.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes, good.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Next year, I'm going to plan to make that our Fourth of July.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But see, this is why a tradition is really important. Because if you have a tradition, then people have it in their minds. And maybe they can't come this year or that year, but they have it. But if you don't stake your ground, then there's no reason in advance somebody would think, like, oh, well, this weekend is significant. Let me call around and see what's going on in our family for that time. So I feel like I successfully passed the hurdle of the second time. Yay. Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

That is excellent. And it looked like a real party, a real gathering, so I give you props, Gretch.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Excellent. Yes. I'm very happy with that.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And maybe a little bit easier than Thanksgiving. I think it's less stressful.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It's much less stressful because hosting the big meal does not come naturally to us. But stick some flags in the ground. I haven't done this yet, but I should do this. It's like, look around for things that are on sale right now for the Fourth of July, because we don't really have any stuff. I don't want to have a ton of stuff, but I would like to have, like, if there's some bunting and maybe like, a platter and a few key things to really change the surroundings.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Oh, I love that. Yes. I bet right now would be a great time to check out the Fourth of July decor.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes, yes, absolutely.

[Elizabeth Craft]

All right. Well, Gretch, coming up, there is something I have been meaning to ask you. But first, this break.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Foreign.

[Elizabeth Craft]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

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[Elizabeth Craft]

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[Elizabeth Craft]

All right, Gretch, we are back and there is something I've been meaning to ask you. You mentioned we were going to be Talking about your 25 for 25 list in the intro. Water coloring every day is on your list.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And I want to know, how is it?

[Gretchen Rubin]

So here I am. I'm an upholder. And I'm also an all or nothing kind of person. So doing something every day really appeals to me. And I. So I really did not think that this would be that hard to do. And I also decided, well, if I really couldn't do it, I could watch like a video about color mixing or something. So I really wanted to make it manageable. Then we got Taffy, our beloved little puppy, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna take Taffy time. I'm gonna take two weeks off and this is Taffy. Time. But I have to say, even since the two weeks were up, there have been many, many days when I haven't done it. Well, one thing is, you know, I'm such a sleep zealot that I will never stay up late to watercolor. Because if I'm really sleepy and it's time to go to bed, I'm like, the most important thing is to go to bed. I don't want to experience the tightening that some upholders can feel. And I certainly have felt this where you feel like you're trapped in the red tape of your own creation because the rules have gotten so tight. But it does make me very uneasy. And some days it's like every minute, I'm kind of on the hop. You know what I mean? It's like this one on that one. I don't know. I know that if I really threw all of my will into it, I could stick to it, but that would take a lot out of me. And I'm just not sure that I want to do that. I know that I don't want to do that because I have not done that. So the thing with Taffy, she is getting a lot more regular in her habits, and we're understanding it all better. So I really am trying to edge back into doing it every single day, but I have not done it every single day.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, here's what I would say. A couple of things. One, I mean, what you really want to do is incorporate water coloring into your life and get better at it. And you are doing that.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So it is a success. The goal is to do that. And I think doing it every day was your way to do that. It wasn't that you thought it was important to watercolor every day. It was that that was how you felt you would achieve your goal.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I mean, I just worry that if I don't do it every day, it'll just start to feel more like a bur. Weirdly, things seem to me like a burden more if I do them some days than if I do them every day. And when I was doing it every day, it did feel easier. But I think you're right. That I can say, like. But the point of it is to stay engaged. And so if I Some days that just doesn't work. That's okay as long as I'm still achieving my ultimate aim actively.

[Elizabeth Craft]

But it reminds me of the War and Peace slow read, because I will read my one chapter, a Day of War and Peace, every day for 30 days, and then I'll completely forget for three days for absolutely no reason. And I think maybe it is just if you're running around and you just simply never have that moment to say, oh, what do I need to do? Oh, read my War and Peace chapter. And then I'll read three chapters and catch up and go back to the one a day. But it just happens.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It is the funniest thing. I mean this. When I was writing better than before, one of the things that I think is very, very puz and nobody ever really talks about this is you can be doing something so consistently and enjoying it. Not even like something that you don't enjoy and it can just fall out of your head. You can just completely forget about it. You know what I mean? So that's why it is really good to use scheduling and cues and the strategy of pairing and all these things that are meant to help you just have something in your mind. So my college roommate was telling me about something that her husband did that I've sort of been thinking about that this is a kind of approach that maybe could work for me. And it's sort of exactly like what you're talking about with War and Peace, which is the idea of did you think of it? Because to me it seems like there's a difference between did you think of it and say, oh, I'm gonna procrastinate, I'm gonna search for a loophole, I'm gonna make excuses for myself and justifications for myself and let myself off the hook in a way that I might regret. Or did I simply not think of it? It just simply wasn't possible in a day when I was running around and running around, it just simply wasn't possible. Or it just. That didn't occur to me. Those to me seem different in terms of commitment to an aim. And my roommate said that with her husband, I don't even really know what it was. He was like a wrestling coach and he had some kind of elaborate wrestling thing. In my mind. He had like a giant boulder with a rope tied around it and he would drag it from one side of the yard to the other. I'm confident that is not exactly what he was doing. But anyway, something like that. Some like very intense 20 minute exercise. And I said, oh, what's his regimen? And she said, he makes himself do it when he thinks of it. And to me that was like, that is such a strange and random and as an all or nothing person, that seemed to be very unsatisfying. That's sort of what is working for me with watercoloring which if I think of it and I can do it, I do it. And if I simply don't even think of it and can't manage it, I don't know. It's approximate.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah. You know, but it's just hard for you because you are all or nothing and you are very into what you say you're gonna do. You do. So I get it. But I. You definitely are making some nice watercolors.

[Gretchen Rubin]

From what I've seen, yes, I'm definitely enjoying it a tremendous amount, and I am finding it very creatively satisfying. So I've just decided to let myself be a little bit looser on this than I would usually choose to be. And in that way, I feel like I'm letting myself down. But on the other hand, I'm like, but maybe I'm not letting myself down.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Maybe that's evolving.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I'm accepting myself and also expecting more from myself. So I am hopeful that now that Taffy is a little bit more integrated into our household routine, that I'll be able to pick it up again. But we shall see.

[Elizabeth Craft]

You can report back. All right, Gretch, we have two spotlights this week. What is our Spotlight on a Tool?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, our spotlight on a tool is that I am excited to team up with bookshop for their 30 day summer reading challenge, hosted right in the Happier app. It goes from July 15 to August 13. Any reading counts. Novels, magazines, just a few pages before bed. Picture books to your children. You can track your streak while building this wonderful happiness boosting habit. Plus, there are $500 gift cards and book prizes up for grabs, which makes it even more fun. You can sign up for the challenge on the [e-mail] plus we've got a.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Podcast recommendation for you, one we think you're gonna absolutely love for the Love with Jen Hatmaker. Jen is a New York Times bestselling author whose life's work is helping women show up for their honesty, joy, and courage. She believes that women living in freedom are the answer to what ails the world. And honestly, same here.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I recently joined Jen to talk about secrets of adulthood and how to live a happier, simpler life. If you're into real talk, good laughs, and a little soul, fuel for the Love is a must. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Coming up, there's something Gretchen's been meaning to ask me. But first, first this break. With summer in full swing, I feel that familiar urge to refresh my closet. But I'm trying not to waste money on pieces I'll only wear once or for just one season. That's where Quince comes in. Their clothes are timeless, feel luxurious and look elevated. The quality is way beyond what you'd expect for the price. In the winter I love to wear my Quince cashmere sweaters and in the summer I love their linen. So many pretty shades, such gorgeous fabric and excellent prices.

[Gretchen Rubin]

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[Elizabeth Craft]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, it has 3D surround cameras with Clearsight ground view that let you see underneath the vehicle and anticipate obstacles and rough terrain. Clearsight Rear View offers an unobstructed rear view even when you can't see through the back window. Driver aid technologies make driving and parking simpler. Intuitive driver displays are customizable to your journey. Design your Defender 110 at LandRoverUSA.com Visit LandRoverUSA.com to learn more about the Defender 110. Explore the Defender 110 at LandRoverUSA dot com so Alyssa, there's something I've been meaning to ask you. I've been meaning to ask you this. You and Sarah, your writing partner, were talking about it on the Happier in Hollywood podcast, which is your novel, because you did all of this tremendous work toward your novel, and then your pesky Hollywood career intervened and you had all this other TV writer work to do, and I had been in the back of my mind wondering how you were thinking about the progress on the novel, which was on your 25 for 25 list, if I remember correctly.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Exactly.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So what is going on with that and how do you balance that? I mean, that's really hard because it's writing, but it's a completely different kind of writing. It's really important, but it's not urgent. It's that whole Problem?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. Which we have been talking a lot about. Well, what we did is last year we had no work July, where we really did not work in July. So this year we decided to have novel July, where we would just work on the novel in July and not do TV work because we really wanna finish the novel. And it's what you say, something that can be done at any time is done at no time. So we're like, we have to put this on the calendar. Calendar. So we put it on the calendar for July.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

We even gave ourselves the last week of June as a, like, reviewing period so that we could get up to date on where we were and the next steps.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Now, having said that, although, yes, we are making some progress in that we have re engaged, we have not been as focused on it as we would like because just other things came rushing in that we had to pay attention to. Now, again, urgent versus important. You know, it's very easy to get caught up in what's urgent and neglect what's important. And in this case, we would say the novel is very important. And it is. But it's hard because also you don't want to miss an opportunity that you might really want.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Sure.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So Hollywood is traditionally extremely slow in July, which is one reason that we picked July. But for some reason, it's just been a little more active this year for us. But we have reengaged, we've reread, we are figuring things out. I mean, I gotta tell you, it's a lot better than I expected when I went back and reread it from the beginning. Yeah. I was like, not that it doesn't need a massive amount of work. Cause we're also making so many whole cloth changes. But I'm like, this is entertaining. You know, like, I enjoyed reading it. I was really dreading reading it. Cause I'm like, oh, it's just gonna be aw. And it's just gonna depress me. But I was like, I wanna work on this. Because it's actually got a lot going for it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh, that's so great. A lot of times people say if you have the luxury of time, it's really good to put a project aside for a certain amount of time to give yourself distance and perspective. Like, you. You kind of had forgotten what it was and you came to it fresh. Then it sort of. You see its strengths and weaknesses more clearly. Did you feel like you did sort of benefit? Because there is also the downside of having to reacquaint yourself with a project which. Which can Take a lot of time.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. The downside is you're going, okay, what color hair does this person have? But, yeah, the upside is you do have distance to kind of see what's missing and what's there. Stephen King and on writing, says he puts a first draft away for, I think, six weeks, which we never do in the TV world. Almost never. We usually don't even put it away for two hours for that reason. So I do think it's been helpful to put it away, but we just need to get through it. The other funny thing, Gretchen, which I appreciate from Sarah's stepmom, Anna had read what we had so far, and Sarah said she keeps asking her, when are you finishing the book? Because she really wants to read the rest. So I appreciate that.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I mean, that's the highest praise.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. So we like that. Oh, so Sarah's like, we have to finish this just for Anna so she can read it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Can I just say, like, I've never met Anna, but I've heard a lot about her over the years, and I have to say that she is. But she doesn't seem like she would have the kind of guile that would know that that would be the thing that would be reassuring to a writer. Like, she wouldn't say that just to make you feel good. I would know that. I would know that as a writer, that would be a nice thing to hear. I don't think that she knows that.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I take her at her word that she genuinely wants to read the rest. I agree with you. She wouldn't say that just to be nice. So we appreciate that.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, you guys really have worked so hard on it already. I mean, you did a major rewrite already.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, but we've never written the end. We've never gotten to the end. We did a major rewrite on the first three quarters, but we need to get to the end.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And is that because you know that you were gonna make changes leading up to it and the end is so hard? You're like, why would we waste our time doing something that might have to change?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, exactly. It just seemed like it didn't make sense, but now it does make sense to get through an end, so. So we will be doing that.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, with nonfiction. I always write the introduction last, of.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Course, because you need to know what you wrote in order to write the introduction.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And I do think the end is going to be hard parts of the end, because there's a big action sequence, which I don't like action sequences in any form of writing.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So but you know what the end is.

[Elizabeth Craft]

We know a lot about the end. Let's put it that way. I wouldn't say we know everything, but we know a lot of. About the end.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Speaking of, how's your project, Empty Nest going? You're writing a book, and I think you may even have a deadline.

[Gretchen Rubin]

No, I don't have a deadline. Because, you know, my thing is, like, as a nonfiction writer, something that I do that's very odd is that I often write a huge amount of the book before I try to sell the proposal. Because I'm always like, I don't know what I'm gonna say. I have to write the book in order to know what I think and what I argue. And I used to try to do it the other way, because that's the way most people do it. And then nobody wanted. Nobody ever wanted to buy the book. I remember with Happiness Project, people were like, that doesn't sound that good. I'm like, you're not getting it. This is going to be amazing. I'll just write most of it, and then you'll see. So I have a huge amount of stuff done on the. In what will ultimately be after revision. Revision, revision. What I hope will be the end. And then I have been working on the proposal. So I have done two major rewrites on the proposal. So I'm hoping to go out with that very, very soon. And then it will. Hopefully, if I do sell it, which I'm very hopeful that I will, then I will start to have a deadline and everything. So 4th of July, nobody's doing anything. So I think the world is springing back to life.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I was just gonna ask. Cause I think people are interested in this with books. Like, would you ever sell something in August? It just seems like you'd wait till September.

[Gretchen Rubin]

That's an interesting question. And I don't know, because part of it is like, are all the people gonna be around? Like, could you get the attention of the people who need to be decision makers? That can be hard in August or, like, in the holiday season. And so that might just be logistically hard. One of the things that I didn't understand. Understand as a reader is that books come out at certain periods. There's big summer fun. And so you would want your book to come out at that time. Or maybe people are like, ooh, this would be a great Father's Day gift. So you need it to come out around Father's Day. So sometimes a book. There's sort of a logic to a book coming out at a certain time. And usually you have about a year or 18 months to write a book the way I write a book or the way I would approach it. And so you start to do the math backwards. And so. So if your book is perfect for spring cleaning and you miss the spring cleaning season, then you might have to wait a whole other year if you want to bring it out at that time. And so there might be a sense of urgency during some periods. Like, we want to make sure that we get this on track by a certain time. But I don't know if that's going to be true in this case, but I should be thinking about that. That all months aren't created equal in terms of getting people's attention or people buying books. And so that's a consideration.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Interesting.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Perfect flexibility. Yeah. And then there's other things, like what other books are coming out at the same time. And, you know, anyway, there's all these factors, as always.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So many considerations, so many factors.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So many factors.

[Elizabeth Craft]

All right, Gretch, what is our quotation this week?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh, this comes from Mark Twain from Following the Equator, and I think this is so funny. And as a happiness bully, I definitely know this feeling. He wrote, to be good is noble, but to show others how to be good is nobler, and no trouble.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Very funny.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I love that. So, Elizabeth, are you feeling happier?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, I am feeling happier. Thank you to Chuck. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now's the perfect time. Because guess what? You can listen completely ad free. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's lemonadapremium.com. don't miss out. Bye, Gretch.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Bye, Elizabeth. The best time to start a happiness project is 20 years ago. The second best time is now. Well, you know, Elizabeth, I am dying to read this novel, but I do feel like I want to wait until it has a beginning, middle, and an end, because I think that a reader can only read the book for the first time. One time.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And as your sister, I want to read it. Just like, I'll say, like, this part's really great, or I think you could do this part better, whatever. And so I want to have that experience.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, but you will be called into action, no doubt.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh, my gosh. I can't wait. Are you kidding? I cannot wait. Anna and I are very excited you're demanding this book. Your public demands. You're like George R.R. martin, and he's like, where's the book?

[Elizabeth Craft]

With only two people caring.

[Gretchen Rubin]

From the onward project.