Podcast Summary: “Move Happier: How Do You Move On After College Drop-Off?”

Podcast: Happier with Gretchen Rubin
Host: Gretchen Rubin
Guest: Ben Markovits
Date: March 8, 2026
Episode Theme:
This episode centers on the complex emotions and transitions involved in the “empty nest” period, using Ben Markovits's new novel, The Rest of Our Lives, as a springboard for discussion. The novel explores family, marriage, identity, health, and the question of what comes next after children leave home. Gretchen and Ben dive deeply into the psychological and emotional terrain of adulthood transitions, creativity, and the process of writing about real life.

Main Theme and Purpose

Gretchen Rubin sits down with author Ben Markovits to explore the “empty nest” stage through the lens of his latest novel, The Rest of Our Lives. The discussion touches on what it means to redefine oneself after college drop-off, the intricacies of long-term relationships, family dynamics, and how big life changes spark personal reflection and growth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing The Rest of Our Lives: An Empty Nest Novel

• Setting the Stage: Gretchen and Ben discuss the premise of the novel— a father, Tom, drops his daughter at college, and instead of returning home, embarks on a journey of introspection and reevaluation.

  • [04:03] Gretchen Rubin: “This is the best novel of the empty nest period. So it's such a good portrait of that time.”

• Opening Passage: Ben reads the first pages, summarizing the novel’s starting point— marital dissatisfaction, resignation, and the emotional deal Tom makes with himself once his daughter leaves home.

  • [04:13-08:40]
  • “When Miriam goes to college, you can leave, too. Maybe this was just another one of those illusions. But it helped me get through the first few months…” (Ben Markovits as Tom)

2. Clarifying the Protagonist’s Dilemma

• Decision or Possibility?: Gretchen notes that some reviews mischaracterized Tom’s intentions; Ben clarifies it’s about the possibility of leaving, not a finalized plan.
  • [09:14] Markovits: “You're right and they're wrong… He can leave. It's a building uncertainty, partly to do with things they have not confronted.”

3. The Perspective of a Passive Character

• Character Study: The guest explains his interest in exploring a protagonist who is uncommunicative and somewhat passive, a perspective less often centered in fiction.

  • [10:33] Markovits: “A lot of books are written about people having experiences, but we spend a lot of time not having experiences.”

• Human Condition: The keynote—wanting to want something from life but often opting out— is deeply human.

  • [11:54] “Somebody who's gotten to a point in his life where he thinks it's okay to opt out.”

4. Health, Art, and Real Life Intersect

• Autobiographical Elements: Ben reveals that he developed unexplained health symptoms while writing the novel, paralleling Tom’s journey.

  • [13:25] Markovits: “While I was writing the book... I started getting these symptoms, which I gave to Tom… The doctor couldn't find anything wrong with me... Eventually I did figure out what it was.”

• Writing Through Illness:

  • [14:55] Markovits: “Going through chemo overlapped with the things you learn about writing life. They're both routine-fixated… all these small things you do have large stakes.”

• Family and Care: As he went through chemotherapy, Markovits’s relationship with his wife deepened, influencing the novel’s emotional trajectory.

  • [16:04] “...there are a few moments in your life when you feel an unmediated closeness to somebody... being sick with my wife in the house was one of those moments.”

5. On Titles and Thematic Resonance

• Why “The Rest of Our Lives”?:
  • [20:49-21:55] Markovits shares the evolution of the novel's title and how it reflects themes of marriage after children, and individual identity outside of family.
  • “It meant what happens to a marriage after the kids leave home... but also who you are outside of family, in the rest of your life.”

6. Writing Process and Creativity

• Practical Approach: Markovits on being prolific:

  • [22:29] “If you put in two good hours at the desk a day... at the end of 50 weeks, you have something like 65,000 words.”

• Protecting Focus: He emphasizes the importance of ensuring that the writing time is of high quality, using tricks like basketball podcasts to clear his mind for work.

  • [23:36] “Because I'm a child… it's like whipped cream on the hot chocolate. Here's the treat; I'll walk towards it.”

• Ongoing Inspiration:

  • [24:24] Markovits: “Stuff keeps happening to you. You have different preoccupations... you’re hoping to find a story that allows you to think about them.”

7. Family, Marriage, and Realism

• Reasons for Recurring Themes:

  • [25:17] Markovits discusses his fascination with families’ and marriages’ emotional weight— how these institutions shape identity and personal history.

• Perspective on Restraint in Style:

  • [27:09] Markovits: “I'm a glutton for self restraint, which probably comes a little too easily for me... I’m really conscious of the ways that fiction can seem phony.”

8. Fiction as Memoir, and Literary Influences

• Blurring Boundaries:

  • [28:09] Markovits aspires to write fiction with the emotional truth of memoir.

• Books He Loves & Literary Models:

  • [29:22-32:54] His favorites include The Scarlet Letter (“so moving”), Goodbye to All That by Graves, and Nabokov’s Pnin (“a happy book...terrible things happen, but it’s optimistic”).

9. Happiness Practices and Life Advice

• Basketball as Mindfulness:
  • [33:28] “The great thing about shooting hoops is you can do it on your own... while you’re doing it, you’re absolutely focused... It doesn’t have to be shooting hoops, but anything like that… seems like a recipe for happiness.”

10. Audience Q&A Highlights

• Literary Influences:

  • [35:17] Roth, particularly Goodbye, Columbus, for the tension between upbringing and self-expression.

• The Road Trip Motif:

  • [36:09 onward] How the American landscape and road trip structure inform both the novel and Ben’s own sense of possibility and identity.

• Process Details:

  • [38:57] Markovits doesn’t always “picture” scenes; he often returns to moments, refining physical and emotional logistics to achieve realism.

• On Reading Reviews:

  • [39:36] Markovits: “I used to, and then I stopped, and then I do again. It's very preoccupying… even if they're good, it's a sugar rush.”

11. Notable Passages and Reflections on Relationships

• Marriage and Mutual Shaping:

  • [41:26] Rubin highlights a key passage where both spouses feel dominated by one another’s will, sparking a conversation about how couples create and become shaped by their joint life.
  • Markovits: “At some point in a marriage, your fingerprints are all over each other… when you’re getting mad at your partner, you’re getting mad at the person you helped come into being.”

• Personal Resonance:

  • [42:46] Markovits’s favorite passage involves Tom’s fear at his own potential for change: “He'd rather be miserable and who he was than happy in who he might be.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Married Life:

  • [08:40] “What we obviously had, even when things smoothed over, was a C-minus marriage, which makes it pretty hard to score much higher than a B overall on the rest of your life.” – Tom (Ben Markovits reading)

• On Opting Out:

  • [11:50] “He wanted to want more from the world… but he thinks it’s okay to opt out.” – Ben Markovits

• On Illness and Care:

  • [16:04] “There are a few moments in your life when you feel a kind of unmediated closeness to somebody… and being sick with my wife was one of those moments.” – Ben Markovits

• On Happiness through Action:

  • [34:16] “Anything where your concentration is completely lasered in on something that you can achieve and then it’s over—that seems like a recipe for happiness.” – Ben Markovits

• On the Mutual Shaping of Relationships:

  • [41:26] “At some point in a marriage, your fingerprints are all over each other… when you’re getting mad at your partner, you’re getting mad at the person you helped to come into being.” – Ben Markovits

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:13] Ben Markovits reads from the opening of The Rest of Our Lives
• [08:40] Discussion about whether Tom has decided to leave his family
• [10:33] Exploration of passive characters and the energy not to act
• [13:25] Ben discusses real-life health issues mirrored in the novel
• [16:04] Intimacy in illness and its impact on art
• [20:49] Evolution and meaning of the book’s title
• [22:29] Ben’s disciplined writing routine
• [29:22] Recommended and favorite novels
• [33:28] Suggestion for personal happiness through focused activity
• [41:26] Key passage on mutual influence within marriage
• [42:46] Ben’s commentary on fear of transformation in life

Overall Tone and Language

The conversation is candid, thoughtful, and modestly humorous. Both Gretchen and Ben favor a restrained tone, mixing philosophical depth with practical advice and accessible language—mirroring the plainspoken realism that Ben seeks in his fiction.

For Listeners in Transition

This is a rich episode for anyone contemplating family change, especially the empty nest. It’s also insightful for those interested in the creative process, the emotional nuances of mature relationships, and how personal experience informs great fiction. Ben Markovits’s articulation of resignation, possibility, and the complex fabric of family life resonates throughout, offering comfort and perspective as listeners “move onward” after big life changes.