Diane

Summary

Happy Face Podcast Episode Summary: "Diane"

Episode Information

• Title: Diane
• Podcast: Happy Face
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
• Release Date: September 15, 2020

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Introduction to Diane Downs and the Incident

The episode "Diane" delves into the harrowing true story of Diane Downs, a 27-year-old mail carrier and mother of three who became infamous for a brutal crime committed in Springfield, Oregon. On a seemingly ordinary weeknight, Diane arrived at the Springfield Hospital with her children, having allegedly shot them and herself, raising suspicions and igniting a complex investigation.

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Diane's Early Life and Family Background

Diane's background provides critical insight into her character and the factors that may have influenced her actions. According to her brother, James Downs, Diane grew up in a traditionally structured household in Phoenix, Arizona, before moving to a farm where the family's dynamics began to shift.

• James Downs on Family Dynamics (04:19):

  "The year is 1960. There was a patriarch and a matriarch... There was no conflict in the house because he took care of all the conflict. It was truly a patriarch kind of house."

While James describes a seemingly normal and supportive family environment, Diane later claimed she was sexually abused by her father, hinting at deeper, undisclosed family issues.

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Relationship with Steve and Domestic Abuse

Diane's relationship with Steve became a pivotal aspect of her life, marked by escalating abuse. Steve, whom Diane began dating in high school, initially presented himself as a protective figure. However, their relationship deteriorated into physical abuse.

• James Downs on Steve's Behavior (06:37):

  "He was on her back, beating on her back... It was pretty intense."

Despite obtaining an honorable discharge from the Air Force to return to her children, Diane's situation worsened as Steve continued his abusive behavior even after their divorce.

• James Downs on Post-Divorce Abuse (09:42):

  "He shoved her onto the bed, and at that point, Cheryl came in... Diane shouted to take the kids and run."

---

Events Leading to the Shooting

Diane's life spiraled further out of control following multiple instances of abuse and financial instability. In 1983, after enduring relentless abuse and manipulation by Steve, Diane reached her breaking point.

• James Downs on Financial Ruin (17:46):

  "They labeled it an electrical fire, but it came out in court that that's not what it was."

Steve's arson of their relatively new mobile home not only left Diane and her children homeless but also exacerbated her desperation and vulnerability.

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The Investigation and Reenactment

The incident at Springfield Hospital quickly captured national attention, propelling Diane into the spotlight. Initially, Diane maintained that she and her children were victims of a "shaggy-haired stranger," a narrative that soon came under intense scrutiny.

• Eric Mason on Initial Reactions (02:45):

  "When Diane Downs drives to the Springfield Hospital with those kids... that doesn't make sense."

The Springfield police conducted a reenactment of the events to gain clarity. However, Diane's performance during this reenactment raised suspicions about her credibility and the authenticity of her story.

• Eric Mason on the Reenactment (36:58):

  "This wasn't a mom who was shell shocked... she was an actress playing out a scene."

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Diane's Behavior and Inconsistencies

Diane's interactions with the media and law enforcement further complicated the investigation. Her willingness to engage with the press contrasted sharply with the lack of concrete evidence supporting her claims of an external assailant.

• James Downs on Diane's Media Interactions (33:00):

  "Diane was the most publicized and talked about individual in the state of Oregon in 1983. And a lot of that was due to her. I mean, she would talk to everybody."

The reenactment video highlighted inconsistencies between Diane's verbal account and her physical actions, leading detectives to view her with increasing suspicion.

• Eric Mason on Behavioral Clues (39:27):

  "She was thinking out loud almost about what it is that they would buy as a story."

---

The Arrest and Charges

Months of investigation yielded little progress until a breakthrough occurred during Diane's sister Christy Downs' therapy sessions. Christy, through therapeutic intervention, was able to uncover Diane's involvement in the shooting.

• Christy Downs on the Revelation (44:51):

  "Said my mom."

Diane's arrest on February 28, 1984, marked the culmination of mounting evidence and growing distrust from both the police and the public.

• Christy Downs on the Arrest (42:32):

  "With no other suspect ever having come close to being charged or arrested or identified, she was in the spotlight. She was the one, and it was a big deal."

---

Conclusion and Aftermath

Diane Downs' case remains a chilling example of how domestic abuse, financial desperation, and psychological turmoil can culminate in tragic outcomes. The "Diane" episode of Happy Face meticulously unpacks the layers of Diane's life, relationships, and the investigative process that ultimately led to her conviction.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• James Downs on Patriarchal Household (04:19):

  "There was truly a patriarch kind of house."

• James Downs on Steve's Abuse (06:37):

  "He was sitting on Diane on punching her in the face, and blood was everywhere."

• Eric Mason on Diane's Reenactment (36:58):

  "This wasn't a mom who was shell shocked... she was an actress playing out a scene."

• James Downs on Media Exposure (33:00):

  "Diane was the most publicized and talked about individual in the state of Oregon in 1983."

• Eric Mason on Behavioral Red Flags (39:27):

  "She was thinking out loud almost about what it is that they would buy as a story."

• Christy Downs on Diane's Admission (44:51):

  "Said my mom."

---

Key Takeaways

• Complex Family Dynamics: Diane's upbringing in a patriarchal household and alleged abuse by her father may have contributed to her psychological state.

• Abusive Relationships: The severe abuse Diane endured from Steve played a significant role in her eventual breakdown and criminal actions.

• Investigation Challenges: Diane's conflicting statements and behavior during the investigation complicated the pursuit of the truth.

• Role of Family: Diane's siblings, particularly Christy, were instrumental in uncovering her true involvement in the crime through therapeutic revelations.

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This episode of Happy Face provides a comprehensive exploration of Diane Downs' life, the circumstances leading to the tragic event, and the intricate process of the investigation that uncovered the truth behind the facade she maintained.

Transcript

[Andrea Gunning]

This is an iHeart podcast. This podcast is supported by Talkspace. When my husband came home from his military deployment, readjusting was hard for all of us. Thankfully, I found Talkspace. Talkspace provides professional support from licensed therapists and psychiatric providers online. Military members, veterans and their dependents ages 13 and older can get fast access to providers, all from the privacy of their computers or smartphones. I just answered a few questions online, and Talkspace matched me with a therapist. We meet when it's convenient for me, and I can message her anytime. It was so easy to set up and they accept tricare. Therapy was going so well, my husband and I started seeing a couples therapist through Talkspace, too. Talkspace works with most major insurers, including Tricare. Match with a licensed therapist [e-mail] military go to talkspace.com military to get started today. That's talkspace.com military I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone, most of all his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. How far would he go to cover up what he'd done? The fact that you lied is absolutely horrific.

[James Downs]

And quite frankly, I question how many.

[Andrea Gunning]

Other women are out there that may.

[James Downs]

Bring forward allegations in the future.

[Andrea Gunning]

Listen to betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Scofield in Bone Valley season one. Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil. I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Tremerki, husband hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the Highwayman suggests men dominated the field, but tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrers, Known as the wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s, her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Find more crime and cocktails on Criminalia. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Eric Mason]

I mean, it was a huge story. It made, you know, national news. When Diane Downs drives to the Springfield Hospital with those kids. And I think it shocked everybody just because somewhere deep in their gut, it's like a mom and kids that just. That doesn't make sense. And the story of the shaggy haired stranger didn't make a lot of sense either at first. But everybody was willing to go along with that for quite a while. And I think what really sort of snapped things was the reenactment and having Diane with the car and having the police ask her various questions. And to reenact that moment, I think began the real questions in that story.

[Andrea Gunning]

The reenactment Eric Mason is referring to is a video shot by Springfield Oregon police. In it, they asked Diane to walk them through the events of that night to try and get a better understanding of what happened. We'll get to that in a bit. But first we have to ask, who exactly is Diane Downs? How does a 27 year old mail carrier and mother of three wind up at a Springfield Oregon hospital on a random weeknight having apparently shot her children and herself? The story starts in Arizona. Her brother James describes their family life. Describe your dad for me. Help me understand your household.

[James Downs]

Sure. I was thinking about this last night. The year is 1960. Right. They got married in the 50s. And in the 50s and the 60s, it was before the bra burnings, you know, there was a patriarch and there was a matriarch and there was a mom and there was a dad. The dads did this and the moms did this. The dads provided, the moms ran the house. Right. One of the questions I had, well, what happens when there was conflict in your house? Well, there was not conflict in my house because that was my dad's job to take care of the conflict if there ever was conflict. And his job was to resolve the conflict by doing that. There was no conflict in the house because he took it all. He took it all. It's truly a patriarch kind of house.

[Andrea Gunning]

Diane's childhood was by most accounts pretty normal, according to her brother. Although Diane herself claims that she was sexually abused by her father. She spent part of her childhood in a Phoenix suburb before she and her family moved to a farm. So your mother always conferred to your father on decisions?

[James Downs]

Always. That was her job.

[Andrea Gunning]

How big was your household?

[James Downs]

But there was five. Yeah. Had a really fantastic childhood. My sister had a fantastic childhood. I remember growing up on Charter Oak Road, and I remember we had a block fence in our backyard. And over in the right hand corner, Diane had pigeons. You know, and I thought, those are the coolest thing, pigeons. You know what I mean, they were pets. They were homing pigeons. Yeah. You put little bands on their little foot, and they fly off, and then they come back. You know, I was, what, in third grade? Right. So I don't remember a whole lot. A whole lot about homing pigeons at the time. Yeah, Diane was one of the. I don't want to say main driving factor, but I'll use the words to basically leave Phoenix and move to the farm, where she inevitably changed her life forever by meeting Steve. We moved from Phoenix to the farm, and out on the farm, it was a great time, man. Diane had a horse, and Kathy had a horse, and John had a steer, and I raised pigs. I raised pigs with my grandpa. As a matter of fact.

[Andrea Gunning]

Diane started dating Steve when she was in high school. Early on, she tried to establish a sense of standards with who she dated, but with Steve, it didn't last.

[James Downs]

I remember that I was in the sixth grade, and she was a junior in high school, and Steve had dropped out. But it's part of my dating Diane or part of being with Diane. One of the things that was requested was that you got to check back into school. And so he did start going to high school and subsequently got kicked out because she was talking to somebody, and he ended up beating the guy up. I actually admired Steve growing up. I looked up to him as he was a male figure, and I put emphasis on the word male. You know, he was a manly man. You know, he took no guff. And that's something Diane says, you know, basically, you know, whatever. If there was another guy that was bugging her, he would beat him up. And she felt safe and she felt protected until there was nobody else to beat up.

[Andrea Gunning]

Unfortunately, Steve's propensity for expressing his anger stopped with people who were bothering Diane, and he began to physically abuse Diane as well.

[Christy Downs]

Apparently, those two fought. They would physically fight fairly often. I mean, punching to the face kind of fighting.

[Andrea Gunning]

Diane briefly joined the military, possibly to escape her home life.

[James Downs]

Diane joined the Air Force, probably to get away, but Diane joined the Air Force in Flagstaff, and she was away for a little while, and Steve was there taking care of Christy.

[Andrea Gunning]

What year was this about?

[James Downs]

I was a freshman, so 1974. Then Diane said, you know, I can't stay away from the kids. And so she got an honorable discharge or whatever happens with the Air Force, and she came back. When Diane went to the Air Force, Steve and I were playing pool, and there was a lady there, and he says, I bet you I can get her to go to bed. With me as a conquest. And it's like, I'm a freshman in.

[Andrea Gunning]

High school, you know, and his wife's brother.

[James Downs]

Right, right. And she's in the Air Force, and she's not there. And whether he did or whether he didn't, I don't know. But I just know what he said to me. They fought. They fought a lot. And one time when I was there, they were fighting, and he was on her back, beating on her back. I remember it. He didn't hit her in the face. He was sitting on her. I think he was even sitting on her head, holding her down like that and beating her on the back. It was just. It was pretty intense.

[Andrea Gunning]

After her son Danny's birth, Diane and Steve divorced. Steve believed he couldn't be Danny's father, since he claimed to have had a vasectomy. Despite their divorce, Diane continued to be on the receiving end of his physical abuse. According to James, later on, she.

[James Downs]

She got tired of. And she started fighting back. And so she. She would engage him. He. And. But obviously, you know, she lost. So he shoved her onto the bed, and at that point, Cheryl came in. So these took place in front of the kids at times. And it was never Diane starting the first engaging. It was always her defending herself from him. And so she said, you know, get Cheryl out of the room. And by that time, Steve was sitting on Diane on punching her in the face, and blood was everywhere. Diane shouted to take the kids and run. So we dragged Cheryl away and got Christy and Danny, and they fled.

[Andrea Gunning]

It seemed inescapable.

[James Downs]

Call the police. And by the time the Maricopa County Sheriff, Deputy Shawn Carnahan, Steve was gone. And when he walked into Diane's living room, he saw my bloodied sister sitting in the chair. His shoulders dropped, the bruises, her broken nose, eyes darkening, neck ringing red. The deputy said, diane, my God, what happened to you? What do you think? She said? You've two been doing this for six years now. When will it stop? And she just said, I don't know. You know, she said, I divorced him a year ago. I thought it would stop. Then I guess I was wrong.

[Andrea Gunning]

Eventually, Diane was pushed to her breaking point.

[Christy Downs]

Diane shot a bullet through the floor of her trailer when he was there one night.

[James Downs]

The next Tuesday, a judge signed a restraining order to keep Steve away from Diane's home. To be sure, that was the first or the last beating he inflicted on my sister. Ten days later, he chased her down into the bathroom. The restraining order forbidding him access to her home was only a week Old. She still wore the bruises from the last attack. He didn't know she grabbed a gun to defend herself.

[Andrea Gunning]

The gun that Diane used to shoot through the floor would later be the subject of a search by police as the potential murder weapon. We'll come back to that in another episode. Not long after the incident where Diane fired a shot into the floor, her mobile home caught on fire.

[Christy Downs]

When she flew to, I think it was Kentucky. She wanted to be a surrogate mom. She had done that once. She was trying to do it again on one of these trips. The day or maybe the evening of the day that she left her trailer caught on fire and, you know, she filed an insurance claim. They paid out. And she later, when things frayed between her and Steve, turned him in for that and he was arrested and charged with insurance fraud and had to pay some money back.

[James Downs]

Everything she owned was gone. She and her children were homeless.

[Andrea Gunning]

And this was a brand new mobile home.

[James Downs]

It was a brand new mobile home. Yeah, it was four months old. They used Steve and Diane worked at mobile home manufacturing plants.

[Andrea Gunning]

Oh, I didn't know this.

[James Downs]

Okay. Yeah, growing up. I call it growing up. 20s, right? They work together in manufacturing plans. That way Steve can keep better tracks of her if he's working with her. I remember that my sister came over to visit and when she was over to visit, I had a guitar and she borrowed my guitar and she took it back with her. And what I remember about the mobile home burning is the fact that my guitar was in the mobile home when it burned and I never got my guitar back.

[Andrea Gunning]

This podcast is supported by Talkspace. When my husband came home from his military deployment, readjusting was hard for all of us. Thankfully, I found Talkspace. Talkspace provides professional support from licensed therapists and psychiatric providers online. Military members, veterans and their dependents ages 13 and older can get fast access to providers, all from the privacy of their computers or smartphones. I just answered a few questions online and Talkspace matched me with a therapist. We meet when it's convenient for me and I can message her anytime. It was so easy to set up and they accept tricare. Therapy was going so well, my husband and I started seeing a couples therapist through Talkspace too. Talkspace works with most major insurers, including Tricare. Match with a licensed therapist [e-mail] military. Go to talkspace.com military to get started today. That's talkspace.com military. Yo, Kpop fans. It's your boy, Bom Han, and I'm bringing you something epic. Introducing the K Factor, the podcast that.

[Christy Downs]

Takes you straight into the heart of K Pop.

[Andrea Gunning]

We're talking music reviews, exclusive interviews, and deep dives into the industry like never before. From producers and choreographers to idols and trainees, we're bringing you the real stories behind the music that you love. And, yeah, we're keeping it 100, discussing everything from comebacks and concepts to the.

[Christy Downs]

Mental health side of the business.

[Andrea Gunning]

Because K pop isn't just a genre.

[Christy Downs]

It'S a whole world.

[Andrea Gunning]

And we're exploring every corner corner of it. And here's the best part. Fans get to call in, drop opinions, and even join us live at events.

[Christy Downs]

You never know where we might pop up next.

[Andrea Gunning]

So listen to the K factor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This isn't just a podcast. It's a movement. Are you ready? Let's go. Let's go. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone, most of all, his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. Caroline's husband was living another life behind the scenes. He betrayed his oath to his family and to his community. She said you left bruises, pulled her hair, that type of thing. No. How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done?

[James Downs]

You're unable to keep track of all your lies, and quite frankly, I question.

[Andrea Gunning]

How many other women may bring forward allegations in the future. This season of Betrayal investigates one officer's decades of deception. Lies that left those closest to him questioning everything they thought they knew. Listen to betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley season one. I just knew him as a kid. Long, silent voices from his past came forward, and he was just staring at me. And they had secrets of their own to share. Gilbert King.

[Christy Downs]

I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott.

[Andrea Gunning]

I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it. Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil. I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known.

[Eric Mason]

If the cops and everything would have.

[Andrea Gunning]

Done the job properly, my dad would have been in jail. I would have never existed. I never expected to find myself in the this place. Now I need to tell you how I got here. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a Killer bone Valley Season 2 Jeremy. Jeremy, I want to tell you something. Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the entire new season ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[James Downs]

They actually labeled it an electrical fire.

[Andrea Gunning]

That's what the report said.

[James Downs]

They labeled it an electrical fire, but it came out that that's not what it was. That came out in court that that's not what it was.

[Andrea Gunning]

How much did insurance pay out for the mobile home?

[James Downs]

It says $7,000 right there.

[Andrea Gunning]

And back in 1983, that was a big chunk of money.

[James Downs]

It was $7,000 to repair the mobile.

[Andrea Gunning]

Home, which wasn't used to repair the mobile home.

[James Downs]

That's correct.

[Andrea Gunning]

Where did the 7,000 go?

[James Downs]

To Steve. Yeah, Steve. And again, he crossed the line. So. But moving forward, you wonder why Steve might have testified against my sister. Well, here's the reasons. You know, Steve confessed to the crime of arson, rendering her homeless and putting her at his mercy. But Steve actually said that they conspired together to burn her home for the insurance money.

[Andrea Gunning]

Diane's living situation put Steve back into a position of power over her. She willingly gave Steve custody of their children to prevent them from being homeless. According to James, Steve leveraged this into a means of control.

[James Downs]

But everything she owned was gone. She and her kids were homeless. This is after the restraining order and Steve says, hey, come live with me. Diane refused but had to let her children move in with him because she didn't want him to live in the car. Right. So she kept paying on the mortgage for the mobile home and she went to persons named Karen's house and offered her a spare room until the end of November of 1982. But the kids weren't welcome because, you know, it's just a bedroom in a house.

[Andrea Gunning]

And Karen was her co worker at the post office?

[James Downs]

I believe so, yes. Diane rented a two bedroom apartment in December. Steve refused to let her take her children until after Christmas. Diane had to go to his house to see her children. And Steve wasn't letting go of that control that he had of her. Every time she went to their house, they fought. He wanted to remarry, she didn't. And this was in December of 1982. The shooting happened in May of 1983.

[Andrea Gunning]

Diane eventually moved back into the mobile home along with her children.

[James Downs]

In January of 1983, strapped for cash, my sister moved back into her burned out mobile home and stopped seeing her children at Steve's. So she brought the kids back to the home. Steve was calling my sister a worthless mother who didn't take care of her kids to go see them. He said he was sick of her having fun while he was burdened with raising the kids. So basically, the kids are still at his house, and she's living there. And he's really unhappy about that because basically she's probably out having a good time and he's having to take care of the kids.

[Andrea Gunning]

Diane had been living for years under the constraints of an abusive relationship. Although she had been unfaithful along with Steve, she was now able to see whomever she pleased without immediate fear of reprisal. And Diane seemed to love male attention.

[Eric Mason]

Over the course of time, you watch this played out all the time. And you. When you see someone like Diane, when you see someone trying desperately to get attention and to move a certain way and to shake her body a certain way, you think to yourself, wow, there's a person looking for attention. And do I want to get inside the kill radius of that person? And I could get blown up. It could blow me up. And so a little bell goes off, I think, in your head when you're the person who's the target of a Diane Downs, thinking to yourself, yourself, do I want to be in the kill radius? Do I? Do I want to risk being blown up? And the answer for most men is no. But for these guys who all of a sudden attached to Diane Downs, I think they understood it was a quick, easy, gratifying way to spend the night. I think that's kind of what got them going. The problem is, I think once they saw. Saw what kind of a mentally damaged person that she was, they would run. I. I think. I think that happened over and over and over again.

[Andrea Gunning]

Diane took a job with the postal service, where she met Nick Knickerbocker. This was the relationship that many would speculate to be the motivation behind the attempted murder of her children.

[James Downs]

My sister, she worked in the post office. She was a rural route carrier. I remember that was one of their fights in Arizona. I remember seeing this because Diane was a rural route carrier. And as a rural route carrier, she would continually break the mirror off of the vehicle because you drive from the right hand side. And she would continually hit the mailboxes with the mirror and knocked it off. And Steve would get so mad about that.

[Andrea Gunning]

Why would he get mad?

[James Downs]

Well, because she broke the mirror off the car continually.

[Andrea Gunning]

Oh, I was thinking she was driving.

[James Downs]

No, no, no. It's A rural route. So on a rural route, you basically sublet your own vehicle.

[Andrea Gunning]

Okay.

[James Downs]

Yeah. And so, yeah, she's driving out in the country delivering mail, basically. And she would hit the mailboxes with the mirror. It wasn't a physical fight, but it was like he crazy. He wasn't very happy. And he made it known that he wasn't happy. But that's what she did in Oregon. She transferred from Chandler, where she met Nick, and, you know, and she moved up to Oregon. And my dad lived in Oregon, and my dad was a postmaster in Springfield, Oregon. And so she came up here to start her new family with, you know, start a new life. And she was working in the post office. So she was. She was truly on her way, man. She was on her way to getting her life. But this happened to her. And it's really sort of sad because, I mean, the reason, talking about the post office and it makes me think of Nick Knickerbocker, the guy she met at the post office. The guy that they say that everything got done for. She did this. The motive. Yes, thank you very much.

[Christy Downs]

He was a letter carrier also. So they worked eight hour shifts beside each other, would spend at least two hours after that, oftentimes having sex at one location or another. So they did paint a picture that when they were in Arizona, because he was a married guy and for the longest time didn't tell his wife about Diane, she eventually found out and he still sort of carried on and was not very forthcoming.

[Andrea Gunning]

Diane was apparently obsessed with Nick to the point where she would have done anything for him. There were unsent letters and journals found in her apartment where she declared her feelings.

[Eric Mason]

Seems to me that he was fairly nice looking, strong jaw, kind of wiry hair, and this person that seemingly Diane Downstair is head over heels about and that she. When any of the male partners, sex partners, said to her, listen, you're a really wonderful sexual partner, but I don't really. I don't think I want to raise kids that would absolutely crash her world. And so I think with respect to Robert, the question of whether or not he could deal with kids, you know, was certainly a part of the narrative.

[Andrea Gunning]

After Nick's rejection and years of abuse from Steve, Diane decided to leave Arizona. Her father was a postmaster in Oregon, so she moved and was able to get a letter carrier job in Springfield.

[James Downs]

When you're in an abusive relationship, it's the same question that everybody asks everybody that's in that kind of relationship, how long are you going to let this happen? Before you change something, but when you. And then she did change something, and that's when she moved to Oregon. She was changing her life. She'd been in order for six weeks when she was attacked. She left Steve in Arizona. She left her boyfriends. And I don't say Nick. I say she left her boyfriends in Arizona. I mean, I can't say that she didn't have a thing for Nick, and I can't say that Nick didn't have a thing for her because obviously they did. But she left him there because really, he was a married man, you know, and you're not going to get together with a married man because the married man is not going to leave his wife. That's just what married men do.

[Andrea Gunning]

This podcast is supported by Talkspace. When my husband came home from his military deployment, readjusting was hard for all of us. Thankfully, I I found Talkspace. Talkspace provides professional support from licensed therapists and psychiatric providers online. Military members, veterans and their dependents ages 13 and older can get fast access to providers, all from the privacy of their computers or smartphones. I just answered a few questions online, and Talkspace matched me with a therapist. We meet when it's convenient for me and I can message her anytime. It was so easy to set up and they accept Tricare. Therapy was going so well, my husband and I started seeing a couple's therapist through Talkspace, too. Talkspace works with most major insurers, including Tricare. Match with a licensed therapist [e-mail] military go to talkspace.com military to get started today. That's talkspace.com military Yo, Kiba fans. It's your boy, Bom Han, and I'm bringing you something epic. Introducing the K Factor, the podcast that.

[Christy Downs]

Takes you straight into the heart of K Pop.

[Andrea Gunning]

We're talking music reviews, exclusive interviews, and deep dives into the industry like never before. From producers and choreographers to idols and trainees, we're bringing you the real stories behind the music that you love. And yeah, we're keeping it hunted, discussing everything from comebacks and concepts to the.

[Christy Downs]

Mental health side of the business. Because K Pop isn't just a genre. It's a whole world.

[Andrea Gunning]

And we're exploring every corner of it. And here's the best part. Fans get to call in, drop opinions, and even join us live at events.

[Christy Downs]

You never know where we might pop up next.

[Andrea Gunning]

So listen to the K factor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This isn't just a podcast. It's a movement. Are you ready? Let's go.

[Christy Downs]

Foreign.

[Andrea Gunning]

I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone, most of all, his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. Caroline's husband was living another life behind the scenes. He betrayed his oath to his family and to his community. She said you left bruises, pulled her hair, that type of thing. No. How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done?

[James Downs]

You're unable to keep track of all your lies, and quite frankly, I question.

[Andrea Gunning]

How many other women may bring forward allegations in the future. This season of Betrayal investigates one officer's decades of deception. Lies that left those closest to him questioning everything they thought they knew. Listen to betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley season one.

[James Downs]

I just knew him as a kid.

[Andrea Gunning]

Long, silent voices from his past came forward, and he was just staring at me. And they had secrets of their own to share. Gilbert King.

[Christy Downs]

I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott.

[Andrea Gunning]

I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it. Every time I hear about my dad, it's, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil. I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known.

[Eric Mason]

If the cops and everything would have.

[Andrea Gunning]

Done the job properly, my dad would have been in jail. I would have never existed. I never expected to find myself in this place. Now I need to tell you how I got here. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Bone Valley Season 2 Jeremy. Jeremy, I want to tell you something. Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the entire new season ad free with exclusive content. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts. And then, in 1983, the shooting occurs. From the beginning, the press made every effort to find all the information they could about the incident and about Diane herself.

[Christy Downs]

The whole goal was to figure out who she was, how long she had been in Eugene or the Eugene Springfield area. So you had kind of this small army of media types, mainly local print and television stations doing their own thing. So we were all sort of learning from each other, too. If KVAL and Eugene had a news broadcast that night with something a little bit new, well, you figured I wish I had gotten that in first, but nonetheless put that into the notebook and just kept on trying to compile our best ability to figure out who was involved. And you also had at the same time the search for the assailant. That was still the official line that there's somebody out there. Although even early on my feeling was, and I think other media people were having questions.

[Andrea Gunning]

Although the police department wasn't very forthcoming with the details of the case and the investigation, Diane herself proved to be very willing to talk to the press.

[Christy Downs]

I was trying to find out who among law enforcement was primarily assigned to the case and would there be a chance of getting an interview with these folks. And I was able to do that after a while, but not early on. And the police were never open and forthcoming with reporters. As far as I could find out. Almost all the information as the case developed ended up coming really out of Diane's mouth. She was a prolific talker. When we finally got a chance to sit down and get her story and once she started, she just didn't stop.

[James Downs]

Mom and dad said, quit talking man. Do not talk to the press. They are not your friends. Diane was the most publicized and talked about individual in the state of Oregon in 1983. And a lot of that was due to her. I mean, she would talk to everybody.

[Andrea Gunning]

Diane gave several interviews with the press and insisted that she and her kids were attacked by a shaggy haired stranger. A description which over time has become a trope when describing non existent suspects of crimes. Do you think that helped her?

[James Downs]

No, no, no, absolutely not. It did the opposite. You know, it's like, and she was really the worst witness for herself. You know, I mean, it's like she, she would get up and she would talk and she would talk and you know, and they think it's because she liked to hear herself talk. Well, the reality is that she wanted to have them listen. She wanted them to listen, but they would never listen. They would never look for anybody. She would go down there. It's like, why aren't you looking? Well, we're looking for the guy. We're looking for the guy. But then you take a look into the newspapers and the time. Two weeks after the shooting, Pat Horton, the district attorney, says the search for the shaggy haired stranger is not a priority on our list. Two weeks after the shooting, the district attorney says the search for the shaggy haired stranger. His words, not hers. The search for the shaggy haired stranger is not a priority on our list. But anytime she goes and talks to him, we're looking for him, we're looking for him.

[Andrea Gunning]

Months after the shooting, the police had produced no additional suspects beyond Diane herself. They had no leads. And only the Fredericksons themselves seemed to be providing contacts of potential witnesses and suspects to the police.

[Christy Downs]

There didn't seem to be any elites, and this was coming from Diane's camp to say, we have. Somebody had phoned us and indicated there was. There was some guy who had shown up at the Springfield Combination Country Club or she was advising police be on the lookout for some dinged up yellow car that was in the area. There weren't solid leads. I mean, I know that the police got a lot of contacts and as far as I know, they. And this, this was one of the stories we were trying to keep up on. They were tracking these leads down, going and talk to the people who phoned them in. But as far as we could tell, that never really got a solid start. There was nothing that felt like a breakthrough in terms of finding somebody else who might be involved in this.

[Andrea Gunning]

Diane would talk and tell her story to anyone who would listen. She seemed to love talking to the press.

[Christy Downs]

I do remember very clearly Diane would even in news conferences talk about dreams that she had had. And she would call me and I'm sure she called other reporters on a fairly regular basis just to. Because she needed to talk. And she was one day talking about having driven down to her letter carrying route in Cottage Grove that morning. She said it was kind of Foggy in i5 and she could see Cheryl coming out of the mist, kind of holding her hand toward her. And Diane said, and there we were, we were the four musketeers again. I think that's how she referred to them, at least for the police sake, because it did come out that I think it would have been a terrible place to be raised in her house because they got hit, they got slapped, they were treated very, very poorly.

[Andrea Gunning]

The police struggled to make sense of the events that night based on the story Diane had provided. They asked her to recreate everything that happened that night step by step in a reenactment.

[Eric Mason]

And I think for the detectives and the officers who were working on it, that was the moment that things shifted a little bit. And to go back to like Detective Welch and some of the first folks on the scene, their radar was going off, I think before that. But at first, certainly the stories were all about who is this shaggy haired stranger? What was the motive of this person to shoot kids? And was even that, you know, the highway back there near Mohawk was that folks danger back There, living out in the rural part of Lane County. And the more I think Diane spoke, the more there were questions about what it is that the motive was all about and about who the shooter might be.

[Andrea Gunning]

The reenactment was strange, to say the least. Diane didn't seem to be a mother who was struggling to explain the murder and attempted murder of her children by a stranger. She came across like an actress playing a part and catering to the audience.

[Eric Mason]

I think that when they videotaped her and they wanted her to say, hey, this is where I was standing. This is where the shaggy haired stranger is standing. This was the song playing on the radio. This is how I reacted. This is what I did. When I threw the car keys into the bushes. The police saw something there that didn't quite add up, and that was what the children ended up seeing from inside the car and what it is she was saying. And that was a contradiction. There was an immediate contradiction when they viewed what she did with the video reenactment in the car. They got a lot of things right down to the detail about the car and. And other things so that they could understand what happened. And so I think the detectives, right off the bat, thought, wow, this is not right. There's something here that's not right. And you could see it, I think, in the way Diane even acted in the video. This wasn't a mom who was shell shocked. She was a actress playing out a scene in a movie that we hadn't seen yet.

[Andrea Gunning]

Tell me about her behavior in that. In that video reenactment.

[Eric Mason]

Mm. Well, it was almost as if, I mean, it's. From what I can remember of the details and them showing was almost as if she had to think about what it was that was the right answer that they wanted, as opposed to, this is exactly what happened. And it. Instead of it being something that was ingrained in a part of her sailor understanding of that shooting from this stranger, she was thinking out loud almost about what it is that they would buy as a story. And you could see that you could.

[Andrea Gunning]

I'm throwing the keys.

[James Downs]

Okay?

[Andrea Gunning]

I'm throwing the keys. Simulating, yes. But I didn't let go of him. He thinks I. I threw them, but.

[James Downs]

I did not throw them.

[Christy Downs]

Okay.

[Andrea Gunning]

He swings around at the same time.

[James Downs]

Watching the keys, and he swings around his chute. Probably thought he shot me in the stomach.

[Andrea Gunning]

I don't know. I go like, fast. I got in the car, come to him, put the keys in.

[James Downs]

Dad just hit my cast, started the.

[Andrea Gunning]

Car and left the car door Shut itself. God damn.

[James Downs]

This is worse than okay.

[Andrea Gunning]

The police weren't the only ones who found Diane's behavior and explanation strange. The press also saw the video, and for many, it confirmed their suspicions that Diane was the most likely suspect in the shooting.

[Christy Downs]

She did a reenactment with the police that was shown later that kind of verified this. This feeling that a lot of us had gotten from the start. The story just didn't really add up. She claimed, for instance, that when she got out of her car, this guy said, I want your car. And she said, and she's consistent, as far as I know to this day, in saying, you gotta be kidding me. That's about the only part of her story that has remained consistent.

[Eric Mason]

Her affect is not one of somebody who's trying to protect their kids. It was almost as if she'd never done these things before. And she. She was saying, well, what are you asking me to do? And they say, no, just do it. Just like it happened. And that was their question. It didn't seem she was operating from memory. It was almost like, how would you want me to be? And so that sort of raised alarm bells as they went through her reenacting what it was like to have a stranger outside her car.

[Andrea Gunning]

After the reenactment video, Diane's increasingly casual attitude in interviews, and the lack of any real evidence pointing to a shooter on the loose, everyone began to accept that Diane was most likely guilty.

[Eric Mason]

So at the beginning, I think all of us wanted to believe that it made sense that this stranger was out there and that all the police had to do was just find this person and track him down, and the things would be over. But over time, and you really didn't want to believe it at first that Diane had some of these strange characteristics about her, they didn't make sense.

[Andrea Gunning]

Eventually, police felt like they had gathered enough evidence. On February 28, 1984, Diane Downs was arrested.

[Christy Downs]

It was a huge deal. Diane's been arrested again. You know, she'd been out in the community for months, saying whatever she wants, disparaging the police, which, that's okay. People are unfairly charged, and it's certainly fair to push back on that. But I think among most people, that there was just no goodwill left for Diane. With no other suspect ever having come close to being charged or arrested or identified, she was in the spotlight. She was the one, and it was a big deal. And she was arrested. She was looking tired, bedraggled. The emotional strain, I think, had taken a toll on her. She was still kind of prone to smirk and smile a lot, whether she should be or not. But she was, I think, kind of beaten down by circumstance. When they finally took her into custody at that point, we all knew that, well, we're going to be going to trial in about three months. I think Lane county had a stipulation at that point that once you were charged with that kind of serious crime, just do a speedy process. We'll have you start your trial within three months.

[Andrea Gunning]

It wasn't just the reenactment, her strange behavior, and the inconsistent story that led police to arrest Diane. During the nine months between the shooting and the arrest, a key witness was at last able to provide the final piece of the puzzle needed to charge Diane.

[Christy Downs]

Diane was ultimately charged because Christy could talk. Christy felt safe enough emotionally to share her thoughts. She'd been going through lots of therapy, and as part of these sessions, her therapist, a guy named Carl Peterson, would ask her eventually, just in talking about this, do you know who shot you? And Christy would not. And he would say, do you want to write that down? And I'll put this in an envelope and we'll just burn it when it's done. So no harm, no foul. So she did that for quite a while. And I think there was probably one day in particular where she felt okay about sharing that with him. What she had written on the paper.

[Andrea Gunning]

And what did she say?

[Christy Downs]

Said my mom.

[Andrea Gunning]

On the next episode of Happy Face presents two Face. We received a bizarre letter from Diane Downs in prison that included her surprising claims of her relation to Becky. This leads us to enlist the help from DNA detective Michelle Leonard to help us solve the answer of who are the biological parents of Becky? Ben Bolin is our executive producer. Melissa Moore is our cut co executive producer. Maya Cole is our primary producer. Paul Decent is our supervising producer. Sam Teagarnan is our researcher, and Matt Riddle is our story editor. Featured music by Dream Tent Happy Face presents Two Face is a production of iHeartrad Foreign. This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. May is Mental health Awareness Month, and Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, is telling everyone, let's face it in therapy by talking or texting with a supportive licensed therapist. At Talkspace, you can face whatever is holding you back, whether it's mental health symptoms, relationship drama, past trauma, bad habits, or another challenge that you need support to work through. It's easy to sign up. Just go to talkspace.com and you'll be paired with a provider, typically within 48 hours. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule. Plus, talkspace is in network with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. Make your mental health a priority and start today. If you're not covered by insurance, get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80. That's S P A CE80 to match with a licensed therapist. Today, go to talkspace.com and Enter promo code SPACE80. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone, most of all his wife, Caroline.

[James Downs]

He texted, I've ruined our lives.

[Andrea Gunning]

You're going to want to divorce me. How far would he go to cover up what he'd done? The fact that you lied is absolutely.

[James Downs]

Horrific and quite frankly, I question how.

[Andrea Gunning]

Many other women are out there that.

[James Downs]

May bring forward allegations in the future.

[Andrea Gunning]

Listen to betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Foreign Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season one. Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil. I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Tremarchi, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the Highwayman suggests men dominated the field, but tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrers, known as the wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s. Her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Find more crime and cocktails on Criminalia. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.