The Secret

Summary

Happy Face: The Secret – Detailed Summary

Introduction

"Happy Face" is a compelling podcast series by iHeartPodcasts that delves into the intricate dynamics of families affected by criminality. In the episode titled "The Secret," listeners are introduced to the harrowing journey of Becky Babcock, whose life has been profoundly shaped by the revelation of her biological mother’s dark past. This episode not only explores the brutal legacy left by Diane Downs, a convicted killer, but also examines Becky's quest for identity and healing amidst the shadows of her mother's crimes.

Becky’s Background

Becky Babcock was born to Diane Downs, a woman with a gruesome criminal history. Due to Diane’s actions, the state intervened, and Becky, along with her sister Amy, was placed up for adoption. Becky was adopted by Jackie and Chris in Bend, Oregon, where she enjoyed a stable and loving home environment.

Becky Babcock [03:58]: "They were amazing. I mean, we had 80 acres, we did 4H and had horses and all the animals you could think of. We lived on the river. It was ideal to be a place to raise children."

Becky's adoptive parents provided her with everything she needed, ensuring that her upbringing was as normal as possible despite the hidden truth about her biological origins.

Discovering Her Biological Mother

The turning point in Becky’s life came when she discovered the truth about her biological mother. While browsing a bookstore, Becky stumbled upon a book by Ann Rule, which contained pictures of Diane Downs. This moment was both a revelation and a nightmare for her.

Becky Babcock [04:26]: "I thumbed through the pages and went straight to the pictures. That was like the moment reality set that this woman is actually my biologic mom... I didn't think I'd ever know. And at that point, I wish I hadn't known. It was really scary."

Despite knowing there was more to her origins, the concrete evidence of Diane’s identity shattered Becky's sense of safety and propelled her into a deep emotional turmoil.

Consequences of the Discovery

The revelation led Becky down a path of rebellion and self-destruction. Struggling with her identity and the fear of inheriting traits from her biological mother, she engaged in risky behaviors that strained her relationship with her adoptive parents.

Becky Babcock [07:34]: "Looking back now as an adult, I can see that it affected me greatly because it was the beginning of my rebellious years and perhaps that information and not dealing with it appropriately and emotionally that caused me to go off the rails."

Becky's actions during this period included partying, substance abuse, and unstable relationships, all of which were manifestations of her inner conflict and search for self.

Seeking Connection and Understanding

In an attempt to find connection and perhaps some semblance of understanding, Becky reached out to her biological mother, Diane Downs. Her initial correspondence was met with minimal engagement from Diane, leaving Becky with more questions than answers.

Becky Babcock [14:55]: "She responds fairly normal. The first letter, actually, it was telling me what she looked like and where she was born and just general, really nice things."

This brief exchange initially gave Becky hope but soon led to frustration as Diane became evasive, refusing to divulge more about Becky's biological father or her past.

Partnership with Melissa Moore

Feeling lost and desperate for guidance, Becky connected with Melissa Moore, another individual grappling with the legacy of having a serial killer as a father. Melissa's own experiences provided a foundation for mentoring Becky through her journey of self-discovery.

Melissa Moore [34:18]: "I have come to learn that I'm not a selfish person for wanting answers, that there's no shame in that."

Together, they embarked on a quest to uncover the remaining truths about Becky's past, aiming to help her reconcile her identity and move forward.

The Quest for Identity

Becky's journey is marked by a series of emotional and psychological challenges as she seeks to understand who she is beyond the stigma of her biological mother's actions. This includes questioning whether she has inherited any psychopathic traits and striving to establish her own identity separate from Diane Downs.

Becky Babcock [35:24]: "I want to go on a journey to figure out who I am, where I came from, why I do the things that I do. And in a sense, I want to know all that so I can leave it in the past."

Her determination to find her biological father stems not just from a desire for familial connection but also from a need to understand her own health and genetic history.

Facing the Past

One of the pivotal moments in the episode is when Becky and Melissa arrange to meet James Frederickson, the son of another convicted killer. This meeting symbolizes Becky's readiness to confront her past and seek closure.

Becky Babcock [37:56]: "I want to go on a journey to figure out who I am, where I came from, why I do the things that I do... It's really big for me right now is I want to know these things because they've been questions I've had for such a huge part of my life."

This confrontational yet hopeful step marks the beginning of Becky's path towards healing and self-acceptance.

Conclusion

"Happy Face: The Secret" offers a profound exploration of the complexities faced by individuals born into families with dark legacies. Becky's story is a testament to the resilience of the human spirit in the face of unsettling truths and the relentless pursuit of personal identity and peace. Through her journey, listeners gain insight into the psychological impacts of hidden familial secrets and the importance of confronting one's past to forge a meaningful future.

Notable Quotes

• Becky Babcock [04:26]: "I didn't think I'd ever know. And at that point, I wish I hadn't known. It was really scary."
• Becky Babcock [07:34]: "Looking back now as an adult, I can see that it affected me greatly because it was the beginning of my rebellious years..."
• Melissa Moore [34:18]: "I have come to learn that I'm not a selfish person for wanting answers, that there's no shame in that."
• Becky Babcock [35:24]: "I want to go on a journey to figure out who I am, where I came from, why I do the things that I do."

Key Takeaways

• The episode underscores the profound impact that discovering a parent's criminal past can have on an individual's life.
• Becky's story highlights the struggle between embracing one's identity and distancing oneself from a tainted legacy.
• The support and guidance from someone who has faced similar challenges, like Melissa Moore, can be instrumental in navigating such complex emotional terrain.
• Confronting and understanding one's past is essential for personal growth and healing.

Final Thoughts

"Happy Face: The Secret" is a deeply moving episode that sheds light on the lesser-discussed consequences of criminal legacies within families. It serves as a poignant reminder of the importance of seeking understanding and support when dealing with personal and familial trauma.

Transcript

[Podcast Announcer]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

[Talkspace Advertiser]

This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, is telling everyone let's face it in therapy, by talking or texting with a supportive licensed therapist at Talkspace, you can face whatever is holding you back, whether it's mental health symptoms, relationship drama, past trauma, bad habits or another challenge that you need support to work through, it's easy to sign up. Just go to talkspace.com and you'll be paired with a provider, typically within 48 hours. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule. Plus, Talkspace is in network with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. Make your mental health a priority and start today. If you're not covered by insurance, get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80. That's S P A CE80 to match with a licensed therapist. Today, go to talkspace.com and Enter promo code SPACE80.

[Narrator]

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[Andrea Gunning]

I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal Police lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone, most of all his wife, Caroline.

[Becky Babcock]

He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me.

[Andrea Gunning]

How far would he go to cover up what he'd done?

[Gilbert King]

The fact that you lied is absolutely horrific, and quite frankly, I question how many other women are out there that may bring forward allegations in the future.

[Andrea Gunning]

Listen to Vitreyal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Gilbert King]

Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Scofield in in Bone Valley Season one.

[James Frederickson]

Every time I hear about my dad, it's oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.

[Gilbert King]

I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known.

[James Frederickson]

At the end of the day, I'm Literally a son of a killer.

[Gilbert King]

Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Becky Babcock]

Jackie, to me, epitomized everything that a person would want in a mom.

[Narrator]

She.

[Becky Babcock]

She was patient, she was caring. She was affectionate, physically affectionate with the girls, which both Chris and Jackie were like that. But she was definitely very maternal. And even with me, I mean, gosh, I can't even tell you how many times I would go to her and cry about something. I went to her for advice all the time. I absolutely looked up to her, and she was so nurturing in everything that she did.

[Narrator]

The voice you heard belongs to Alina, a woman who babysat Becky and her sister for many years. Now, 34 years old, Becky lives a normal life like everyone else. But what's unusual about her story is that her biological mother is convicted killer Diane Downs. Diane was ordered by the state to place Becky, then Amy, up for adoption. She went to live a peaceful life with her adoptive parents, Jackie and Chris in Bend, Oregon. Becky had a great home life, and her parents provided her with a good home environment and treated her well.

[Becky Babcock]

They were amazing. I mean, we had 80 acres, we did 4H and had horses and all the animals you could think of. We lived on the river. It was ideal to be a place to raise children. And so my sister was adopted first, and then four years later, my parents adopted me.

[Narrator]

Alina is the very same babysitter whom Becky tricked into revealing her biological mother's identity. Alina remembers the interaction from there.

[Becky Babcock]

I went to the bookstore and I had to have my parents take me, obviously, because I was a kid. And I found the book by Ann Rule, and I thumbed through the pages and went straight to the pictures. That was like the moment reality set that this woman is actually my biologic mom. And more so the reality set that my parents weren't my real parents. I always knew they were not my real parents, but it was the fact that now there was this third person, now there was reality of who my biological mother was. I think it had been three years of asking that. It just. I didn't think I'd ever know. And at that point, I wish I. I hadn't known. It was really scary.

[Narrator]

Becky was able to mostly forget about Diane for a few years.

[Becky Babcock]

It was that answer to the question, you know, and so I was able to let that go. And it was more of just the needing to know. And now that I knew, I didn't want to know. So I just kind of buried it deep.

[Narrator]

It stayed buried for a while until Becky decided to share her secret.

[Becky Babcock]

When I was 16, I had told a boyfriend who Diane Downs was. And it was just during that get to know you phase, you know, he had asked if I had anything that I never told anybody before. You know, a secret. And that was the biggest secret I had. So I told him one day. He said, you know, let's watch a movie. Come on over to my house. I remember sitting on his futon, and he popped the tape in, and then he left the room to go make snacks or something. And. And that's when it started playing. And, you know, you see the small sacrifices. It was difficult to watch Farrah Fawcett as Diane Downs and to let that story unfold in front of me. You can't look away, but I did not want to watch it, but I couldn't stop watching.

[Narrator]

At the bookstore, Becky saw the pictures of her mom in the book but didn't read it. So watching this was the first time she'd heard the entire story.

[Becky Babcock]

I don't even know the words to explain how it felt. It killed a little part of my innocence, in a sense, just to know that that's really where I'm biologically from. And I felt so stupid looking back, wanting to know for so long, and I understand why my mom didn't want to tell me.

[Narrator]

Becky finally understood where she had come from and the woman who had given birth to her.

[Becky Babcock]

The part that really got me was when Diane was holding that baby, that was a representation of who I am, and it became real. It's like, that's me in a sense, and the fact that she held me and it was uncomfortable and really difficult to watch.

[Narrator]

After the discovery of who her biological mom was, Becky's behavior shifted towards rebellion.

[Becky Babcock]

Looking back now as an adult, I can see that it affect me greatly because it was the beginning of my rebellious years and perhaps that information and not dealing with it appropriately and emotionally that it caused me to go off the rails.

[Narrator]

A Becky came to resent the secrecy and the hidden facts about where she came from. She also saw part of her identity in Diane not being prepared emotionally to the jarring physical resemblance to Diane causing her to question who she was.

[Becky Babcock]

After I saw the video and really got the full idea of who Diane Downs was, I just kind of stopped caring. I shut down inside somehow. And I had already been pretty rebellious, but at that age, it was more destructive. Rebellion, self destruction, partying, sleeping around, drugs, running away. You know, I wasn't Living at home at that point, it was scary. I guess looking back now, I'm amazed I'm still alive by some of the situations I put myself in at 17 is when I decided that I'm going nowhere in life and I'm just a disappointment to everybody. So I needed to do something. And I jo the army and the day that I shipped out for boot camp, they told me I was pregnant.

[Narrator]

Before being shipped off to boot camp, recruits are subject to a battery of tests, and for women, this includes a last minute pregnancy test.

[Becky Babcock]

As I walked by, they said, okay, everybody's clear. And as I walked by, I looked down at them and there was one positive. And I was like, excuse me. You know, it's like, is that mine? And they're like, oh my gosh, sit right here. And they made me wait for hours. They didn't tell me anything. They did call my dad though, because I was 17. And they called and told him and that was awful.

[Melissa Moore]

They told him before you?

[Becky Babcock]

Yeah. And I begged them, I said, please don't tell my dad. You know, he can't. Let me at least tell him that I'm pregnant.

[Narrator]

Becky's parents were supportive to an extent, but for the most part, she was on her own.

[Becky Babcock]

After finding out that I was pregnant, I stayed in Portland for a while and continued to hang out with some of the same people that weren't very healthy for me. I wasn't doing any drugs, I quit smoking. I talked with my dad and I tried to come home, but they said, you know, we raised our children. This is something you need to do on your own. They paid for me to have a house so I could raise my child. And my dad said that every parent needs to be home for at least the first two years of a child's life. So they helped me for the first two years, even though I couldn't live with them and they wouldn't really help me raise him. They were there the whole time and they made it possible that I could have my child and that I could take care of him and be that.

[Narrator]

Hands on parent with Christian. Becky discovered that she loved being a mom in the beginning.

[Becky Babcock]

When Christian was little, I didn't have time to think, you know, sleep deprived and always caring for a little baby. I loved being a mom. I never really worried about my genes transferring to him. He was perfect in my eyes. Maybe it's how my mom felt when she looked at me, you know, and accepted me into their family as I just didn't see any negative things or anything bad. I just saw this perfect little child, and so I didn't worry who he was going to grow up to be.

[Narrator]

Becky started dating a co worker and fell in love. And then by choice, Becky got pregnant a second time.

[Becky Babcock]

At that point, things started to go wrong. Before we got pregnant, we drank a lot. We were still partying quite a bit, and I had to sober up and do things right because I was pregnant. We just realized we didn't really like each other anymore and we didn't know who each other was without the alcohol and staying up all night partying and that sort of stuff.

[Narrator]

And then things got worse. Without warning, the father of a child just left.

[Becky Babcock]

I was just destroyed. I was heartbroken. I was pregnant with my second child. I was, you know, I couldn't afford where I was living because I couldn't work. It was a high risk pregnancy. I was bedridden for most of it. I didn't want to give up on our family, so I ended up staying in a homeless shelter because I couldn't work.

[Narrator]

After speaking to her parents, Becky decided the best option would be to put the second child up for adoption.

[Becky Babcock]

They said that if I would think about adoption and do what's best for both the children, that I could stay with them till the baby was born. And they were right. I was homeless. I was a single mom. I couldn't raise two children, even though I really wanted to. I didn't want to give my son away, but it was what's best for both of them.

[Narrator]

The birth of Becky's second child was emotionally and physically challenging.

[Becky Babcock]

So then it gets to the point where it's time to be induced. Because it was a high risk pregnancy. They wanted to just kind of, you know, move things along. I was there by myself because my family was too hard on them. It broke their heart to let him go as well. It hurt in so many ways, you know, emotionally and physically and everything just hurt. And then he was born and he was perfect. They told me, you know, that I could spend as much time with him as I wanted and, you know, just hold him. But I knew that if I didn't let him go, that I would never let him go. They just had to take him. I couldn't let go. I was devastated and I didn't know who to talk to. I didn't know anybody else that had put their child up for adoption and had that loss. For some reason, I thought about contacting Diane.

[Narrator]

I understand how she felt. I too, did a similar thing. I had reached out to my father in A letter to his prison as a teenager, telling him about my abortion, thinking I'd find a soft place to share that he couldn't be judgmental as he was serving multiple life sentences. It doesn't make sense logically, but in the moment of desperation and a need for connection, he was the only person I thought would be in a place to listen and to care.

[Becky Babcock]

One night, I was especially sad and. And I just wondered if Diane ever felt what I felt in that moment. I just needed somebody that I could relate to. I didn't need a mother. I had one. But I needed somebody that had been through it, and she went through it with me. There was that connection. It was my biological mom who held me and who let me go. And for that brief moment, I just wanted to know that she was human.

[Narrator]

Becky reached out with a fairly ordinary letter just describing herself. And Diane responded.

[Becky Babcock]

She responds fairly normal. The first letter, actually, it was telling me what she looked like and where she was born and just general, really nice things. I got the letter and I was almost like, okay, this isn't so bad. Maybe I didn't make a mistake in writing her, because after I put that letter in the mailbox, my heart sank. I was just, what did I do? Why did I do that? Ever since the day that I sent that first letter, I was terrified of what the letter coming back would be, but I was excited. Terrified.

[Narrator]

The correspondence with Diane didn't last long.

[Becky Babcock]

I think there was only like six letters in total exchanged. I wrote her my first letter about a week and a half later. So she had to have written me that day that she received the letter and sent it back because it was a very quick turnaround. And so then I responded a few days after receiving her letter. And I think that I. In this second letter, I asked about my biological father, and I asked who he was and if I could know him and where he was.

[Narrator]

Diane was a clinical narcissist and couldn't stand the idea that the focus was no longer on her.

[Becky Babcock]

She just got angry and said she was never going to tell me and. And why would I ask those questions, and I don't need to know and just avoided it in every way possible.

[Narrator]

After writing to Diane for a while, she begins to see the parallels between their lives and behavior. Becky begins to wonder if she's a psychopath just like Diane.

[Talkspace Advertiser]

This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. May is mental health awareness month, and Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, is telling everyone, let's face it, in therapy, by talking or texting. With a supportive licensed therapist at Talkspace, you can face whatever is holding you back. Whether it's mental health symptoms, relationship drama, past trauma, bad habits, or another challenge that you need support to work through. It's easy to sign up. Just go to talkspace.com and you'll be paired with a provider, typically within 48 hours. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule. Plus, Talkspace is in network with most major insurers and most insured members have a zero dollar copay. Make your mental health a priority and start today. If you're not covered by insurance, get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80. That's S P A CE83. To match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com and Enter promo code SPACE80.

[Bom Han]

Yo, K pop fans. It's your boy Bom Han, and I'm bringing you something epic.

[Talkspace Advertiser]

Epic.

[Bom Han]

Introducing the K Factor, the podcast that takes you straight into the heart of K Pop. We're talking music reviews, exclusive interviews, and deep dives into the industry like never before. From producers and choreographers to idols and trainees, we're bringing you the real stories behind the music that you love. And, yeah, we're keeping it 100, discussing everything from comebacks and concepts to the mental health side of the business. Because K Pop isn't just a genre. It's a whole world, and we're exploring every corner of it. And here's the best part. Fans get to call in, drop opinions, and even join us live at events. You never know where we might pop up next. So listen to the K factor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This isn't just a podcast. It's a movement. Are you ready? Let's go. Let's go.

[Andrea Gunning]

I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone, most of all, his wife, Caroline.

[Becky Babcock]

He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me.

[Andrea Gunning]

Caroline's husband was living another life behind the scenes. He betrayed his oath to his family and to his community.

[Gilbert King]

She said you left bruises, pulled her hair, that type of thing.

[James Frederickson]

No.

[Andrea Gunning]

How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done?

[Gilbert King]

You're unable to keep track of all your lies. And quite frankly, I question how many other women may bring forward allegations in the Future.

[Andrea Gunning]

This season of Betrayal investigates one officer's decades of deception. Lies that left those closest to him questioning everything they thought they knew. Listen to betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Gilbert King]

Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley season one.

[Becky Babcock]

I just knew him as a kid.

[Gilbert King]

Long silent voices from his past came.

[James Frederickson]

Forward, and he was just staring at me.

[Gilbert King]

And they had secrets of their own to share.

[James Frederickson]

I'm Gilbert King. I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott.

[Gilbert King]

I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it.

[James Frederickson]

Every time I hear about my dad, it's, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.

[Gilbert King]

I was becoming the best bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known.

[James Frederickson]

If the cops and everything would have done their job properly, my dad would have been in jail. I would have never existed.

[Gilbert King]

I never expected to find myself in this place. Now I need to tell you how I got here.

[James Frederickson]

At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.

[Gilbert King]

Bone Valley Season 2 Jeremy.

[James Frederickson]

Jeremy, I want to tell you something.

[Gilbert King]

Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to hear the entire new season ad free with exclusive content. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Podcast Announcer]

So I'm talking with her and I said, you know what? If at some point you would like to tell your story, I could help you get your story told somewhere.

[Narrator]

After Eric's first meeting with Becky, he began to explore the idea that he could be the person to help tell her story, to finally give her a chance to let the world know about her from her own point of view.

[Podcast Announcer]

I think there was this sort of this Diane shaped void inside of her that she's always trying to bring the drugs and the men and everything to. I mean, she would talk about really sort of crying out to God and saying, please help me. I don't know who I really am. Am I just the daughter of this crazy killer? Or am I this person who's gonna have my own life and my own identity? And I don't wanna be known as the daughter of Diane Downs anymore.

[Narrator]

By going to the media, this was a way for Becky to take back control of her identity.

[Podcast Announcer]

It was this thirst and this quenched for identity. But also, in addition to identity, it was also, how much do I want Diane to be a part of my future going forward? How far do I Let Diane in. I think at the end it was, you know what? I'm satisfied with that. And now I'm gonna move on and I'm gonna decide what I wanna do with my life in terms of what I'm going to do to help people and be a person who's kind to other people.

[Narrator]

Eric teamed up with a reporter from the Oregonian, Lisa Grace Ledneiser, and they began to shop the story around.

[Podcast Announcer]

And at the time, I had really no idea what I would do or how I would do it. But Lisa and I approached several magazines and all of them were like, wow, we'd love that story.

[Narrator]

After some wrestling with their own ideals about how they wanted to present the story, Eric and Lisa finally decided to work with Glamour magazine.

[Podcast Announcer]

Well, I mean, there was that debate, like, am I just, you know, a conduit in another tawdry story about a killer? Or is this somebody who is a microcosm of what you find out when you find out your family's secrets? And is this a bigger story about family secrets and what to do with them once you find out about them? And so when we sort of came from that angle and then Glamour said, we'll take care of a sidebar about what happens when you find out, you know, that you're related to this over here, then it seemed to take on more of a little bit more of a public service story in terms of that everybody has this dark side of a family. The pedophile, the murderer, the person who did something ended up in prison and how to handle that.

[Narrator]

Becky didn't make telling the story easy. She would be cooperative at times and not at others.

[Podcast Announcer]

Well, it was torturous at times. I mean, some days she was really up and ready to tell her story. And we, Lisa and I, had gone over and rented a condo for three or four days, and she would come and talk at length about it, and then she'd drop off the face of the earth for a couple weeks, and you wouldn't hear from her.

[Narrator]

Becky's parents didn't respond well to her sudden interest in outing herself in the media. And her diminishing relationship with them at the time made the experience even more difficult, not only for Becky, but for Eric and Lisa as well.

[Podcast Announcer]

I think that they sort of made a decision to step back from helping her. And so it was up and it was down, and it was God and the devil and light and dark and all these things. And that she was influenced by sometimes very small things. And those very small things became big things. And so Sometimes the article was really on and really going, and then other times it looked like it was going to blow up. So part of the debate was, are we writing an article about something or are we being taken on a ride that's never going to be an article anywhere for anyone, and that we're just going along on this ride and we're gonna end up at the bottom of a ravine in the rocks and we wanted to be responsible with somebody's life who was about to share their biggest secret ever.

[Narrator]

The article was published June 2010, and Becky's story is officially out there in the world. This led to many more media opportunities for Becky.

[Podcast Announcer]

I'm not sure quite what the timing of this, but Oprah is finally winding down her show and Oprah says, would you like to be on with me? And she comes up very well on Oprah. Did you. Have you seen.

[Narrator]

No, I didn't watch her tape yet. During the Oprah appearance, Oprah replays a clip from a 1988 interview with Diane where Oprah tries to find out the identity of Becky's father, but is only given what Diane claimed was the date of conception, which at the time was the only clue into her biological father's identity that Becky had. There was only one other person who supposedly knew the identity of Becky's father, Ann Rule. Becky met with her on the 2020 piece when the show did a two hour feature on Becky and the case and took her to meet Ann. When Becky asked Ann Rule who her father was, she refused to give out his name.

[Podcast Announcer]

Yeah, I think Ann had made like a journalist deals to get the story and be able to keep the anonymity. And we all understand that. And I figured, well, I mean, to be able to get that story, you gotta promise whatever the person wants to do.

[Narrator]

I get the sense that he's right underneath our nose, that he's right in the area. I get the sense that he also knows that she exists.

[Podcast Announcer]

Well, and I think the reason that you're probably right is because Anne was able to have what appears to be a conversation and that I think it's based also on the fact that she was a bestselling author and people would come to her with details. It's like people would stumbled over there themselves to get her the story.

[Narrator]

Ann Rule passed away in 2015, and thus the mystery of Becky's father remains. She's wondered who he is almost as long as she's known about her mother.

[Podcast Announcer]

I mean, it would answer a lot of questions. She was talking about that since the day she walked into the pizza parlor. That's what she wanted and that's what she hopes for. And she believes it's just right around the corner.

[Talkspace Advertiser]

This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. May is mental health awareness month, and Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, is telling everyone let's face it in therapy by talking or texting with a supportive licensed therapist at Talkspace, you can face whatever is holding you back, whether it's mental health symptoms, relationship drama, past trauma, bad habits, or another challenge that you need support to work through. It's easy to sign up. Just go to talkspace.com and you'll be paired with a provider, typically within 48 hours. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule. Plus, Talkspace is in network with most major insurers, and most insured members have a $0 copay. Make your mental health a priority and start today. If you're not covered by insurance, get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80. That's S, P, A C E80. To match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com and Enter promo code SPACE80.

[Bom Han]

Yo, K Pop fans. It's your boy Bomhan, and I'm bringing you something epic. Introducing the K Factor, the podcast that takes you straight into the heart of K Pop. We're talking music reviews, exclusive interviews, and deep dives into the industry like never before. From producers and choreographers to idols and trainees, we're bringing you the real stories behind the music that you love. And yeah, we're keeping it hunted, discussing everything from comebacks and concepts to the mental health side of the business. Because K Pop isn't just a genre. It's a whole world. And we're exploring every corner of it. And here's the best part. Fans get to call in, drop opinions, and even join us live at events. You never know where we might pop up next. So listen to the K factor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This isn't just a podcast. It's a movement. Are you ready? Let's go. Let's go.

[Andrea Gunning]

I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone, most of all, his wife, Caroline.

[Becky Babcock]

He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me.

[Andrea Gunning]

Caroline's husband was living another life behind the scenes he betrayed his oath to his family and to his community.

[Gilbert King]

She said you left bruises, pulled her hair, that type of thing.

[James Frederickson]

No.

[Andrea Gunning]

How far would Joel go to cover up what he did? Done?

[Gilbert King]

You're unable to keep track of all your lies, and quite frankly, I question how many other women may bring forward allegations in the future.

[Andrea Gunning]

This season of Betrayal investigates one officer's decades of deception. Lies that left those closest to him questioning everything they thought they knew. Listen to betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Gilbert King]

Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley season one.

[Becky Babcock]

I just knew him as a kid.

[Gilbert King]

Long, silent voices from his past came.

[James Frederickson]

Forward, and he was just staring at me.

[Gilbert King]

And they had secrets of their own to share.

[James Frederickson]

Gilbert King. I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott.

[Gilbert King]

I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it.

[James Frederickson]

Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.

[Gilbert King]

I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known.

[James Frederickson]

If the cops and everything would have done their job properly, my dad would have been in jail. I would have never existed.

[Gilbert King]

I never expected to find myself in this place. Now I need to tell you how I got here.

[James Frederickson]

At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.

[Gilbert King]

Bone Valley Season 2 Jeremy.

[James Frederickson]

Jeremy, I want to tell you something.

[Gilbert King]

Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and to hear the entire new season ad free with exclusive content. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Narrator]

I came to meet Becky Babcock 10 years ago while filming a documentary. We remained in contact through Facebook and discussed the backlash we sometimes received by coming forward in the media. Some people, few believing we saw attention or fame, others knowing our true intention, our desire to connect with others out there so that they don't feel alone, that there are other women and men just like them who are related to perpetrators. In Becky's case, she didn't know who her bio dad was. I already knew my entire family background, which tremendously helped me to navigate my identity. So I wanted to help Becky get the answers she needed, to know she isn't just like her mom. That part of her is also rooted in another family, another story.

[Becky Babcock]

I think it would be an interesting journey to go on. I have a little bit of a disconnect from Diane Downs. I never refer to her as my Mom. And if anybody does, I quickly correct them and say biological. Because I was blessed to have great parents, which I talk about all the time, because I want them to know that even though I'm going on this journey, it has nothing to do with them not being good parents.

[Narrator]

It was 10 years ago now that I first came forward with my secret. I had hidden the fact that my father was a serial killer because I was terrified of the public reaction and the potential fallout it would have on my kids and myself. So I know exactly the risk when it comes to answering the call to find the truth. There is no control. Had I remained silent, I would have probably never have met Becky or the numerous others that have reached out to me that have a killer in their family.

[Melissa Moore]

So I had such a positive experience. And so I thought, I know that in my case, I had a lot of answers. And in your case, you have so many questions.

[Becky Babcock]

Right.

[Narrator]

The other voice you're hearing is me. I had lost my voice on the day of this interview.

[Becky Babcock]

I do want to go on a journey to figure out who I am, where I came from, why I do the things that I do. And in a sense, I want to know all that so I can leave it in the past. I can stop all those questions. I can shut down that chapter and move on. And I think that that's really big for me right now is I want to know these things because they've been questions I've had for such a huge part of my life. It's funny, but my biggest fear is my parents being disappointed that I'm public with such deep stories because my parents don't want to be public. It's interesting that even everything. The questions that I have violate their privacy. It does. And it's very, very difficult to talk in public because it's what I need, but it's not what they want, and it hurts them. Even finding my biological father or, you know, going on this amazing quest, they're still in the back of my mind that they're going to be disappointed.

[Melissa Moore]

So there's parts of me that felt incredibly selfish and would shame myself for wanting this. But what I discovered, my advice to you, is that there's no shame in wanting to know what you want to know, and that I have come to learn that I'm not a selfish person for wanting answers, that there's no shame in that. Do you think you would get a sense of by knowing who your biological father is? What would that do for you?

[Becky Babcock]

I almost don't want to know because I Have this side of me that is from a monster, and this other side of me that the other half of me that I don't know at this point, I can think that it's good.

[Melissa Moore]

You can fill in the blanks.

[Becky Babcock]

Right. I can decide who he is, and I can think that he's an amazing person, even if he's not. As long as he's a decent human being, I'd be happy. But I'm scared to go on this journey because what if he is, you know, deceased? What if he doesn't want me in his life?

[Melissa Moore]

On this journey we're going to go on? What are your biggest questions that you would like answered?

[Becky Babcock]

Oh, my goodness. There's so many questions I have that I want to have answered throughout all this. I want to find my biological father, even if he doesn't want to find me, you know, at least I know and I can put that rest. I want to find out medical history because I've gotten very sick as I've gotten older, and I want to see if that's in my history and if so, if there's anything to do about it. To see if I have any relatives out there that maybe want a relationship.

[Melissa Moore]

I have gone on this journey before in a similar fashion. Not exactly in the footsteps you're going to walk, but I'd be honored to be your guide.

[Becky Babcock]

Yeah, I would love that.

[Melissa Moore]

And to walk side by side with you. And I will make every expert medical record anything you want, I will try my very best to provide that for you. If you're ready and committed to do this, I promise you, on the other end, you will be a different person in so many sense of the word of that in a positive way. I know that because it's not contingent on other people. It's contingent on what you want.

[Becky Babcock]

Right.

[Melissa Moore]

And the fact that you're doing this for yourself.

[Becky Babcock]

I'm honored to have you as my guide. Thank you so much.

[Narrator]

My first step with Becky is to take her to meet with the people she's avoided. Diane's family. I would have never expected how that meeting would unfold. Next week. Join us as Becky and James Frederickson meet for the first time. And the surprising letter Diane Downs gave to James to read to her. James, this is Becky.

[Becky Babcock]

Hi.

[Podcast Announcer]

Hi. Good to see you.

[Becky Babcock]

Yeah. How was your trip?

[Podcast Announcer]

It was good.

[Becky Babcock]

Yeah.

[Podcast Announcer]

It was good.

[Becky Babcock]

Yeah.

[Narrator]

And how are you?

[Becky Babcock]

Nervous getting through it.

[Narrator]

Our executive producer is Ben Bolan. Melissa Moore is our co executive producer. Maya Cole is our primary producer, and Paul Decent is our supervising producer. Our Story editor is Matt Riddle. Research assistants from Sam Teagarden. Featured music by A Dream Tent Happy Vase Presents Two Face is a production of I Heart Media.

[Becky Babcock]

Foreign.

[Andrea Gunning]

Host of the podcast Betrayal, Police lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone, most of all his wife, Caroline.

[Becky Babcock]

He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me.

[Andrea Gunning]

How far would he go to cover up what he'd done?

[Gilbert King]

The fact that you lied is absolutely horrific, and quite frankly, I question how many other women are out there that may bring forward allegations in the future.

[Andrea Gunning]

Listen to betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Gilbert King]

Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season one.

[James Frederickson]

Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.

[Gilbert King]

I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known.

[James Frederickson]

At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.

[Gilbert King]

Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Becky Babcock]

Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Tremarky, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious characters cases from the past. The legend of the Highwayman suggests men dominated the field, but tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrers, known as the Wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s. Her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Find more crime and cocktails on Criminalia. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Narrator]

Hi listeners. I'm Melissa Jeltson, host of what Happened to Talina Czar? It's the story of a woman who disappears in the early days of COVID lockdowns and the group of online sleuths who try to find her.

[Melissa Moore]

I didn't want to be talked out of this plan. After I post this, I am turning.

[Becky Babcock]

Off my phone for exactly this reason.

[Narrator]

I kept just kind of asking everybody. Anyone else think this is strange?

[Becky Babcock]

You'll notice that about me. I don't lurk. I'm out there. I'm an action kind of girl.

[Narrator]

You can now get access to episodes of what Happened to Talina Zhar 100% ad free with an iHeart True Crime plus subscription. I'm a subscriber and you should be too, so don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search iheart True Crime plus and subscribe Today.

[Becky Babcock]

You'Re listening.

[Podcast Announcer]

To an iheart podcast.