Tom Holland (plus Kevin Feige & Amy Pascal)

Summary

Happy Sad Confused: Tom Holland (plus Kevin Feige & Amy Pascal)

Host: Josh Horowitz
Guests: Tom Holland, Kevin Feige, Amy Pascal
Release Date: July 30, 2026
Episode Theme:
A deep-dive retrospective with Tom Holland on his decade-long journey as Spider-Man, including candid reflections on his evolution in the role, creative contributions, iconic moments, and a look to the future. A bonus segment features Spider-Man producers Kevin Feige and Amy Pascal, discussing franchise risks, creative decisions, and what’s next for Spider-Man and related Marvel characters.

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Episode Overview

Josh Horowitz welcomes Tom Holland for a wide-ranging, career-spanning conversation about his tenure as Spider-Man and his broader adventures in film. The episode covers the pressures of playing an iconic character, memorable moments from set, creative input, friendships, and speculation about future directions for both Peter Parker and the larger Marvel universe. A bonus mini-interview with Kevin Feige and Amy Pascal provides a producer's perspective on the creative risks and decisions behind the Spider-Man franchise.

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Tom Holland: Reflections on Spider-Man and Beyond

Entering the Spider-Verse: Audition, Pressure, and Becoming Peter Parker

• The Audition Process

  • Holland reflects on the long, six-month audition (13:27). He always felt “if I got it, I would do a really good job,” more than feeling he was destined for the role (13:55).
  • “It was less about a performance and more of a portrayal of myself, I guess, just with an American accent.” — Tom Holland [14:29]
  • Talks about how portraying Spider-Man never felt like a job, always “like a gift” (11:08).

• How Pressure Evolved Over His Career

  • At age 20, didn’t feel pressure in the same way as now:
    “I feel more pressure and more nerves releasing Spider Man: Brand New Day than I did Spider Man: Homecoming.” [08:05]
  • Pride and nerves are heightened now after deeper involvement in the creative process and growing ownership over the character (08:54).

Physicality and Performance

• Physical Contributions and Signature Moves

  • Holland’s dance background shaped his Spider-Man physicality, especially given the full-face mask. He describes practicing “funny little things” in the mirror, including letting his arms go floppy after “dead arm sleep,” which became a signature Spider-Man movement (18:13).
  • Credits the contributions of prior Spider-Men (Tobey & Andrew) to suit comfort and design [20:16].

• Stunt Safety and Suit Stories

  • On the concern of “getting sick” in the Spidey suit:
    “In reality, I knew that if that did happen, I could pull the eyes out, grab the eye tray, and I could just rip.” [20:05]
  • Newer costumes more comfortable thanks to shared tips from Tobey and Andrew.

• Favorite Spider-Man Suit

  • “I love Andrew’s TASM2 costume—a lot of our new suit is inspired by that” [20:38].
  • Black suit is “really cool” but hard to adapt practically without too much CGI (21:03).

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Leaks, Rumors, and Staying Loose-Lipped

• Holland laughs about his “leaker” reputation, saying part of it was played up for fun, but there’s a “germ of truth more than a germ” to it (22:33).
  • “My love language, I think, is taking the piss out of me.” [22:44]
  • Excitement as a fan makes it hard not to spill things—“I want to tell everyone what’s going on because I’m a fan” [23:39].

Iconic Marvel Moments

• Infinity War Ending

  • “I don’t want to go”—the iconic line was improvised; Holland explains he used acting exercises around repetition to capture real emotion (24:17).
  • Praises the Russo brothers: “They know that no one loves their character like the person that plays that character.” [25:18]

• Onscreen Chemistry and Memories

  • Cherishes sharing the screen with Tobey & Andrew in No Way Home—“such a wild experience to play a character while doing it with two of your heroes” [32:44].
  • Secret-keeping about multi-Spidey projects was hard and emotionally heavy (33:36).

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Navigating Studio Politics — Sony & Marvel Crossovers

• 2019 Breakup Rumor Aftermath

  • Felt more “confused” than sad when it seemed Spider-Man might leave the MCU. Always trusted the people at both Sony and Marvel (27:38).
  • “It was made very aware to me that they weren’t moving on from me. It was just that the relationship between, like, mum and dad had fallen apart a little bit.” [28:15]

• Sony Universe Spin-offs

  • Never forced into a spin-off like Morbius/Kraven/Venom; if it was to happen, “one day this will happen”… but it never did organically (29:38).

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Creative Input and Franchise Future

• Greater Creative Role

  • Holland describes contributing ideas and being “part of the development process” for Brand New Day [08:54, 35:06].
  • “Spider puberty”: pitched exploring Peter developing new powers, but some ideas were rejected for getting “too creepy” for young viewers (35:06).
  • “Sometimes it’s the worst idea that you got to go down that road and then absolute gold nugget comes out.” [36:44]

• Passing the Torch: Miles Morales

  • Holland confirms “a whole plan” for eventually handing off the role, saying, “That is the thing that I want to do most in this character” (38:06).
  • Excited for multiple Spider-Men to exist simultaneously, referencing the animated films as “the best Spider-Man movies that have ever been made” [39:03].

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Outside Spider-Man—The Odyssey & Fred Astaire Projects

• The Odyssey Experience

  • Calls working on Christopher Nolan’s film the “coolest experience I’ve ever had”—praises working with “Matt and Anne and John… a dream come true” (06:36).
  • “The movie absolutely sings, dude. Like, the movie is unlike anything I’ve ever seen before.” [07:04]

• Fred Astaire Biopic

  • Drawn to sibling dynamics and “story of reinvention.” Wants to create a film that resonates even with those unfamiliar with Astaire (40:26).
  • “Being a sibling and a brother is like a huge part of my life, and I don’t feel like I’ve had the opportunity to tap into that.” [40:39]
  • Will be “singing, playing piano, dancing”—excited and daunted.

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Rapid-Fire “Happy Sad Confused” Questions [41:54]

• Dogs or Cats: “Dogs. All day. Big time dog guy.” [42:04]
• What He Collects: “Good memories… for a while I was into watches, but now just good times.” [42:51]
• Favorite Video Game: “The Last of Us, the second one” [43:23]
• Fortnite as Spider-Man: “I am so bad at Fortnite I cannot play it.” [43:50]
• Notable & Fun:
  • “A mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?” “A mouthful of bees. One bee in my butt would be—yeah.” [44:16]
  • Phone wallpaper: “Zendaya.” [44:26]
  • Confused food: “Sea urchin. Who, why?” [46:27]
  • Actor who makes him happy: “Jacob Batalon. Just love that guy.” [46:07]
  • Movie that makes him sad: “About Time … in a really wonderful way though.” [46:19]

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Producer’s Corner: Kevin Feige & Amy Pascal [46:55]

On Creative Risks and the MCU

• Biggest Risks Taken
  • Integrating Spider-Man into the MCU (47:14).
  • “Recasting [Spider-Man] so soon after Andrew was a bit of a risk… Taking three movies to tell an elongated version of Spidey’s origin…” — Kevin Feige [48:28]
• Going 'Smaller' Instead of Bigger
  • After No Way Home, chose to go “street-level and smaller” for Brand New Day, focusing intimately on Peter Parker, as opposed to escalating constantly [49:35].
  • “It’s hard to get bigger than three spider men.” — Amy Pascal [49:42]

Fan Service & Crossover Teases

• Venom/Spider-Man Crossover

  • “How close did you guys get to that actually happening?”
    “It would be great. Let’s put it that way.” — Amy Pascal [50:57]
    “Do you still have hope?” “Always have hope.” — Kevin Feige [51:03]

• Miles Morales

  • Confirmed in-the-works animated film for summer release [52:50].

Behind-the-Scenes Decisions

• Casting Tom Holland
  • Holland quickly became the clear favorite during auditions for his “soul and agility” [53:32].
  • “He just has Peter Parker soul… he’s also the best stunt Spidey we’ve had.” — Kevin Feige [53:49, 53:57]
• Stunt Restrictions
  • Holland’s love for stunts sometimes exceeds what’s allowed by studios for safety [54:00].

Marvel Rumor Rapid Fire [54:12]

• Future Castings:
  • Ryan Gosling as Ghost Rider, Cynthia Erivo as Storm: “You never know what the future may bring. Both very good actors and great characters.” — Kevin Feige [54:28]
  • Adam Driver: “It’s a tradition to zoom with him and then he passes.” [54:47]
• Blade Update:
  • Feige jokes about needing therapy for Blade’s delays [55:14].
• Secret Wars
  • Is it two films? “Not this world, no.” [55:39]
  • Not a full reboot after Secret Wars; follows comic precedent [55:53].
• X-Men Casting:
  • No specific actors signed at this time [56:15].

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I feel more pressure and more nerves releasing Spider Man: Brand New Day than I did Spider Man: Homecoming.” — Tom Holland [08:05]
• “My love language, I think, is taking the piss out of me.” — Tom Holland [22:44]
• “They know that no one loves their character like the person that plays that character.” — Tom Holland, on the Russo brothers [25:18]
• “It was made very aware to me that they weren’t moving on from me. It was just that the relationship between, like, mum and dad had fallen apart a little bit.” — Tom Holland [28:15]
• “The animated movies… are just the best Spider man movies that have ever been made. The heart in those movies is out of this world.” — Tom Holland [39:03]
• “He just has Peter Parker soul and his agility…” — Amy Pascal, on casting Tom Holland [53:32]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Spider-Man Audition & Start: 13:27–15:17
• Physicality & Suit Stories: 17:38–21:25
• Rumors & Leaks: 21:31–23:41
• Infinity War & Death Scene: 23:41–26:09
• Studio Conflicts & Spin-offs: 27:09–30:16
• No Way Home Reflections: 32:20–34:34
• Creative Input & Spider-Puberty: 34:45–36:51
• Passing the Torch to Miles: 37:23–39:29
• Fred Astaire & Other Projects: 40:26–41:54
• Rapid Fire Fun: 41:54–46:37
• Producer Segment: 46:55–56:17

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Happy Sad Confused is essential listening for Spider-Man fans and movie buffs alike. Tom Holland shares heartfelt, candid, and frequently humorous insights into his Spider-Man journey, creative process, and the impact of becoming a global icon. The producer mini-interview pulls back the curtain on the monumental risks, shifting strategies, and relentless love that fuel the ongoing Marvel and Sony collaboration—while still keeping plenty of secrets in the vault.

Listener Takeaway:
If you want to understand what it feels like to step into Peter Parker’s shoes for a decade, how those iconic Marvel moments happen, or how the people behind the scenes strategize the most closely guarded future crossovers in Hollywood, this conversation delivers—in classic, deeply personal Happy Sad Confused style.

Transcript

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[Josh Horowitz]

do you ever think of, like the Multiverse reality where you didn't get Spider man and Timothee Chalamet is swinging around Spider Man?

[Tom Holland]

I think he would make a great Spider Man. I think he would really bring a lot of emotion. I think he would be a more brooding version of the character, which might be kind of interesting.

[Josh Horowitz]

Sure.

[Tom Holland]

And you know, maybe I got Dune.

[Josh Horowitz]

I was gonna say Dune would be

[Tom Holland]

this kind of like blumbering idiot, like running through the sand. That'd be kind of fun though I

[Josh Horowitz]

don't think that would be your take.

[Tom Holland]

Prepare your ears humans. Happy Sa Sad Confused begins now.

[Josh Horowitz]

Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy Sad Confused. Today it is a Spider man brand new day spectacular. Tom Holland is on the podcast. Plus stick around. Later we have a special chat with Kevin Feige and Amy Pascal. Hey guys, thanks as always for checking out the podcast. Remember to hit that subscribe button if you haven't already on YouTube, on Spotify and subscribe whatever platform you're using. I appreciate you guys. Big one today for the biggest movie. I think it could be the biggest movie of the year. I mean, with apologies to Avengers, Doomsday and Dune Part three. I don't know. Spider Man Brand New day is going to give them a run for their money because the love of this franchise, the love of Tom Holland in this role is palpable. It is strong and this movie delivers. I am so thrilled to say that Tom Holland is is on the podcast for the very first time. Later on, as I said, we do have a little mini kind of bonus conversation with executive producers Kevin Feige and Amy Pascal. So let Me explain a little bit first about both of these conversations, a little context. But before I do that, let me remind you guys, check out our patreon patreon.com happysaganfused. You get early access, you get access to our live events, bonus content, merch, all sorts of fun stuff. Check it out patreon.com happysagonfused if you like what I do, support us over there. Okay, so context, Tom Holland. This conversation was recorded before I saw the movie. This was in fact recorded quite a while ago, month or two ago at least he was in New York. Schedules lined up. And who's I to say no to Tom Holland? Of course, I've wanted Tom on the podcast forever. Been talking to him a long time for MTV and for other things. But finally to have the deep dive with him was fantastic. And in a way it's okay for my purposes that I hadn't seen the movie because it gave us an opportunity to dive into his, particularly his Spider man history. So we talk about the early days of joining Spider man, the early pressures, his growing contributions through the years, that moment in time when Spider man was seen to be leaving the mcu, the rumors about Spider man joining the other Sony films, his role in Infinity War, his death scene. So many things we got to touch on that I probably wouldn't have had time for if I just concentrating on the new film. So yes, there are teases on the new film, but this is mostly kind of a look back at his Spider man life. There's a little bit of Odyssey in there too. And again, just for context, this was before the Odyssey was out, before I'd seen the Odyssey, before anybody had seen the Odyssey. So that's why we're talking about it as if it hasn't happened yet. Because it hasn't happened yet. Okay, so there's the context for Tom, context for Kevin Feige and Amy Pascal. This is a just a mini kind of bonus thing that we're going to put at the very end of the episode, 10 minute interview, mostly about Spider Man. Brand new day. Again, I haven't seen the film yet. So it's, you know, given that context that that's what the conversation is. Also there is some conversation about things like Ghost Rider and X Men. This of course happened before Comic Con, as you guys probably know by now. Ghost Rider was officially announced with Ryan Gosling. I'm very much connected to that story. If you don't know, if you know, you know. So there's that. And yeah, so kind of the newsy stuff with Kevin might feel. I don't think it feels old because we talked about Blade, which wasn't even brought up at Comic Con and some other things. So anyway, just wanted to give you the context for that. That's why we're talking about Ryan Gosling as a potential Ghost Rider and not, in fact, of course, the fact that he is now our Ghost Rider. So I think that's all. We'll get to the main event because there's a lot of juicy stuff in this one. Stick around till the end. Kevin Feige, Amy Pascal, producers of Brand New Day. But first up, a deep dive with Spider man himself. A long time coming. I'm so thrilled it happened. Here is me and Tom Holland. Enjoy. Mr. Tom Holland.

[Tom Holland]

Nice to see you. Josh.

[Josh Horowitz]

Good to see you, man. I'm doing well. I'm doing very well. Welcome to Happy Sack Infused. We've talked many times over the years. You've never done the official pod, so this is a big moment for me.

[Tom Holland]

I will say I have a really poignant memory of you.

[Josh Horowitz]

Oh, no.

[Tom Holland]

When we met in Vegas.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yes.

[Tom Holland]

That was fun. And we did an interview. It was the first time I was very nervous and you really set the tone and I think really helped me kind of start my public journey with the Spider man world in a really lovely way.

[Kevin Feige]

Tom.

[Tom Holland]

So I'm always excited to chat.

[Josh Horowitz]

I'm going to cry right at the beginning. I'm going to make you cry by the end of this.

[Tom Holland]

That's what I do for a living, so it ain't that difficult.

[Josh Horowitz]

Congratulations in advance on the new film. I just tell you I haven't had the privilege. We're taking this a little bit in advance.

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

Okay.

[Josh Horowitz]

Needless to say, we. You guys are keeping this under wraps.

[Tom Holland]

Yes.

[Josh Horowitz]

I'm just going to assume this is the greatest movie ever, ever made.

[Tom Holland]

Yes, you said it, not me.

[Josh Horowitz]

And put it on the poster. Josh Harley.

[Tom Holland]

Exactly five stars. Hasn't seen it yet, but it is a look.

[Josh Horowitz]

It's a big summer for you. The Odyssey, Spider Man, Brand new day. I mean, is it even a summer movie if you or Zendaya are not in it? Does it really count?

[Tom Holland]

Listen, man, I am still coming to terms with how exciting the summer is. I think being in the Odyssey as a young, like, lover of cinema is one of, if not the coolest experience I've ever had. Seeing Chris work, seeing his crew work, getting to share the screen with Matt and Anne and John again and, you know, the rest of the amazing cast was a dream come true.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

Like, it was out of this world. And the movie absolutely sings, dude. Like, the movie is unlike anything I have ever seen before.

[Josh Horowitz]

You're saying Christopher Nolan made a really good movie?

[Tom Holland]

He made a pretty good movie. He made a pretty good movie.

[Josh Horowitz]

Finally, we were rooting for it.

[Tom Holland]

It's a bad time. It's a bad time. No, the movie is. The movie is awesome. The movie is absolutely, like, I don't

[Josh Horowitz]

need to be hyped more. I'm ready.

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

So good, man. You're going to love it. You're going to love it.

[Josh Horowitz]

Okay, so since. Since we have the luxury of a little time here and we have been talking for a number of years, I want to kind of like, take a macro view of, like, particularly the Spider man run. Because, I mean, you alluded to it like, I met you. I think you were probably maybe 20 back in Vegas, probably around CinemaCon. Right. And I mean, I was guilty of this. I'm sure everybody was guilty of this. Like, it's always about, like, are you feeling the pressure, the responsibility? Right. When you get a role like that? I'm curious what those words mean to you now at 30 versus what they meant to you at 20. Pressure, responsibility to this character.

[Tom Holland]

It's a really interesting question because I was talking about it this morning. I feel more pressure and more nerves releasing Spider Man Brand New Day than I did Spider Man Homecoming. And I think there's something about

[Amy Pascal]

that

[Tom Holland]

kind of childlike naivety of what was happening to my life at 20, as opposed to finishing that third movie, sharing the screen with Toby and Andrew, being really kind of conflicted as to whether or not my time as Spider man had come to an end. Taking a leap of faith and diving into this new movie, falling in love with Destin, making a movie that I am so unbelievably proud of.

[Kevin Feige]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

And I think because I'm so proud of it and Destin was so gracious and allowed me to be a part of the development process. And, you know, I've been involved in this movie in a way that I haven't been before. I think a lot of those nerves are down to the fact that this movie feels like it's a bigger part of me somehow.

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Right.

[Josh Horowitz]

You pushed your cards on the table and had more of a voice at the table.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah.

[Josh Horowitz]

And I want to get to that because that evolved over the years. I know for you. But it is funny because, like, you were saying, like, look, you weren't like, you were an adult, but you were a young adult when you got this and like, there's only so much the brain can wrap itself around when you are cast in that role. You can intellectually know, like, this is a big deal.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah.

[Josh Horowitz]

Like, this is James Bond, Batman. This is one of those. But then it's another thing to actually walk in those shoes. I mean, my sense about you, and I'm going to pay you a compliment, is like, over the years you've handled it kind of as well as you can for something like this. Something that no human being really has the capacity to handle.

[Kevin Feige]

Right.

[Josh Horowitz]

When you look at kind of the ten year journey, do you look at it as like kind of a straight line of kind of like learning or were there ups and downs in the road of kind of like, I'm buying into my own hype at a certain point or I'm prioritizing the wrong things or give me a little sense of like, that.

[Tom Holland]

I think that all of those things are true. But if they weren't true, then you wouldn't be like a well rounded human being person.

[Josh Horowitz]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

You wouldn't be a human being. You have moments where like, golf is this. Everything goes back to golf.

[Josh Horowitz]

I know.

[Tom Holland]

Golf is a perfect analogy.

[Josh Horowitz]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

There are days where you're like, I could be a pro golfer, like, why don't I pursue golf? And then there are days when you're like, I don't think I'll ever play golf ever again because I suck.

[Josh Horowitz]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

And I think life is like that. You know, there are highs and lows. Is about appreciating them both for the different ways in which they affect your life and the ways you learn from them. I've always been like a big. I've always really believed in that. You learn more from your failures than you do your successes. Right. You know, and I've loved every minute of it. To be honest, I feel still as lucky today as I was when I was 18 and I got the job. I think something that I've really loved about the process is that playing this character has never felt like a job.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

It has always felt like a gift. And I love the people that I get to make it with. The guys at Sony, the guys at Marvel, the incredible casts that I get to share the screen with. It has just been a positive experience in every way. So I'm feeling pretty blessed and feeling pretty lucky. And I am super proud of the film.

[Josh Horowitz]

We'll be right back with more Happy, sad, confused.

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[Josh Horowitz]

So back to the beginning. You've talked about kind of the famous six month long audition process. We don't need to rehash all of that. But what I'm curious about, like when you look back at that time, that long process of getting the role, it seems like looking back and hearing you talk about it way back when, there was something in you that thought you were the right guy for this, that you were kind of destined for this. Even, like as long as it was going, it was going to work out. Is that safe to say? And if that's true, where do you think that came from?

[Tom Holland]

I don't know if it was a sense that I was the guy for the job, but more the sense that if I got it, I would do a really good job.

[Josh Horowitz]

Right?

[Tom Holland]

I don't know if I would maybe do the best job of everyone that was going up for it.

[Josh Horowitz]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

But I knew that given the opportunity, I could really do something that was well within my wheelhouse. And I'd been a fan of Spider man since I was a kid. I'd grown up kind of cosplaying as Spider Man. It was such a huge part of, like, who I was as a person.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah. But it was less.

[Tom Holland]

It was less about a performance and more of a portrayal of myself, I guess, just with an American accent. But I've always been confident. I've always kind of been confident in my own ability. Yeah. And, you know, I had a really healthy, a really exciting experience the other day. Like, I went for my first dance class to. For Fred Astaire. And I was equally as excited as I was terrified, which was the excitement came from, oh, my God, I can totally do this. But then the fear was, but I have to climb a mountain to do it. But it was like that perfect level of fear and excitement.

[Josh Horowitz]

I know I have it within me. I can learn it.

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Horowitz]

But it's gonna take work.

[Amy Pascal]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

It's like, I know I can do this, but in order to do this, I'm gonna have to work harder than I've ever worked before.

[Josh Horowitz]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

And if I'm willing to do that, then I'll achieve what I want to achieve.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

So it's. It's not blind faith.

[Josh Horowitz]

Right. It's with the Right. I have the tools, and if I really put the work in, I can do it.

[Tom Holland]

Exactly. That's what it is. Yeah.

[Josh Horowitz]

Do you ever think of, like, the Multiverse reality where you didn't get Spider man and Timothee Chalamet is swinging around Spider Man?

[Tom Holland]

I think he would make a great Spider Man. I think he would really bring a lot of emotion. I think he would be a more brooding version of the character, which might be kind of interesting.

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Sure.

[Tom Holland]

And, you know, maybe I got Dune,

[Josh Horowitz]

I was going to say would be

[Tom Holland]

this kind of like, blumbering idiot, like, running through the sand. That'd be kind of fun, though.

[Josh Horowitz]

I don't think that would be your take there. I don't think they've ever released, like, I mean, you obviously got the part before Jacob and Zendaya got you screen tested with them, as far as I know. Right. Like, they were reading opposite you. They've never released that footage. Have you seen the footage of, like. I mean, that's probably like your first meeting with both of them is on. Literally on a camera somewhere.

[Tom Holland]

Oh, yeah.

[Kevin Feige]

We've.

[Tom Holland]

We've all seen it. We've all sat down and watched it and. And laughed about it. And, you know, it's really funny. In this movie in particular, there are flashbacks to previous movies to try and help audiences understand, like, where we're coming from, certain moments. And I remember even shooting the Third movie. Feeling like an adult and feeling like a. Kind of a young man.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

And then when you see those flashbacks in comparison to the movie that we're making now.

[Josh Horowitz]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

We look like children.

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

So when you go back to the audition tapes.

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

I mean, I was a child. I was. I was 17 years old when I was auditioning for these movies.

[Josh Horowitz]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

So it is kind of crazy to think about how much of my life has been about Spider Man.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah. No, you can mark different parts of your life.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah.

[Josh Horowitz]

And obviously overlap with the personal life, too, now. I mean, it's just. It's everything. I mean, it's not everything, but it's a lot of your life.

[Tom Holland]

I mean, I would say it's. It's damn near the majority.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah.

[Josh Horowitz]

Was the physicality part of, like, what you felt like initially was, like, in your bones? Like, I can bring something a little bit unique here. Like, I'm good in my own body. I know what I can do. Like, Toby. Andrew. Amazing. But, like, I have, like, some. I'm a little of a different body type. I can do some other things, I guess.

[Tom Holland]

Just having a dance background.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

For a character where you completely cover his face and you have to kind of tell the story through physicality.

[Amy Pascal]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

You know, I was really lucky to have the emoting eyes.

[Josh Horowitz]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

You know, the kind of Tony Stark eyes that can.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yes.

[Tom Holland]

Kind of give the audience a sense of what's going on, but really you can just do shocked or angry. That's kind of the limitation to the emotions the eyes can do. Yeah.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

But, yeah, I think, you know, when I was auditioning for the movie and thinking about how I would play the character, a lot of it was sort of standing in front of a mirror

[Josh Horowitz]

and, oh, my God, that's the footage I want.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah.

[Josh Horowitz]

Like.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah. Pretending to sort of be in fight scenes or in scenes. And I tried to do this thing in the first movie which kind of ended up sticking, which was like, you know, if you fall asleep on your arms and your arms go dead.

[Amy Pascal]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

This idea that when he's in the suit, he doesn't necessarily have control of his arms in scenes. So you'll notice, like, if I ever turn around really quickly, I kind of let my arms go.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

And I just kind of thought that was, like, a funny little thing, which ended up becoming a bit of a staple, I guess, for me. But physicality has always been step one of stepping into the shoes of Spider Man.

[Josh Horowitz]

We do, as an audience, sometimes worry about you doing the stunts. And I'M not alone. I want to show you. Where's my camera? So one of my favorite interviews I did with your friends Jacob and Zendaya was.

[Tom Holland]

That's about me being sick.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah. I love it. Let's just play it again. Just. Just for shits and giggles. Here we go. You know what I think about all

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

the time that really scares me is like when he wears that thing, like the mask that you can't just take off.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah.

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

Because it's all like one piece.

[Kevin Feige]

Yeah.

[Josh Horowitz]

I get scared all the time like,

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

what if he's working so hard that

[Tom Holland]

he throws up and then he can't.

[Amy Pascal]

He chokes.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah. I think about all the time like,

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

that it was really scary.

[Josh Horowitz]

You think about that all the time?

[Tom Holland]

The time I do.

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

Cuz I look at him like, please, I hope he never gets sick. Oh my God.

[Josh Horowitz]

But also like, what is like doing flips with. So was that a fear for you as well, or was that just your friends being very kind and it was

[Tom Holland]

definitely something that crossed my mind. I think that in reality, I knew that if that did happen, I could pull the eyes out, grab the eye tray, and I could just rip.

[Josh Horowitz]

There's a rip cord. There's an emergency.

[Tom Holland]

It's not designed that way, but I'm pretty sure, yeah, I could have done that. But now in the new suit, having worked with Toby and Andrew.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yes.

[Tom Holland]

And seeing the amount of engineering that went into their comfortability. I have a zip at the back of my head which allows me to take the mask off to breathe.

[Josh Horowitz]

This comes with sine yard. Imagine that you can actually breathe.

[Tom Holland]

How good is that?

[Josh Horowitz]

Do you have a favorite of the entire canon of Spider man? Of the costumes, the one that you wore, or they wor. Like, what's your. What's the favorite?

[Tom Holland]

I love Andrew's TASM2 costume. A lot of our new suit is inspired by that. And, you know, we kind of broke the rules a little bit by justifying the fact that Peter had met those two guys in Spider Man 3.

[Josh Horowitz]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

That we kind of made this new suit as an amalgamation of the things that we loved from Toby suits and Andrew suits.

[Josh Horowitz]

Nice.

[Tom Holland]

I love the black suit in Toby's movie. I think that's really cool. I think if we ever got to do a black suit in Spider Man, I don't know how we would. I don't know how we would tackle that challenge because they did it so well in the game.

[Amy Pascal]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

And I don't know how you make a suit that's similar to the one in the Game without having a CG component.

[Josh Horowitz]

Right. It feels like that's the place to obviously go, but you obviously want it to feel tactile.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah. I don't know how. I don't know how you would do that.

[Josh Horowitz]

I mean, I'm sure, as you well know, among the thousand rumors that are always going around is like that potentially we see you in the symbiote guys for Secret Wars.

[Tom Holland]

Okay.

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Well,

[Tom Holland]

I have absolutely no idea.

[Josh Horowitz]

You're not making eye contact. You just went away.

[Tom Holland]

Okay. I swear to you, Josh, that I have no idea what Secret wars is about. And I think that that is by design because Marvel know I'm going on this press tour and that is their biggest asset. And I think it's really important that no one ruins it. So I think by design. I went on holiday with Joe Russo

[Josh Horowitz]

not a month ago and nothing.

[Tom Holland]

I don't know, nothing.

[Josh Horowitz]

Do you want to do the rest of the interview holding up our hands like this?

[Tom Holland]

We should like this.

[Josh Horowitz]

No.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah. I. Truth be told, I know nothing about that movie.

[Josh Horowitz]

All right. Do you think you've gotten a bad rap over the years? Has it been overstated? And how much have you played into kind of like that you're the leaker, the one that's. That just can't control themselves.

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a producer or co-host)]

I.

[Tom Holland]

There's part of me that loves it.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

I think my dad's a comedian.

[Josh Horowitz]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

So having thick skin and growing up with people taking the mick out of you is like part of our upbringing.

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

You know, my love language, I think is taking the piss out of me. I really love.

[Josh Horowitz]

I can't.

[Tom Holland]

I. I just. I love it.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

And I think it's been. I don't know, I think it's been really fun. This whole idea of me spoiling things and I have spoiled things.

[Josh Horowitz]

Right. There's a germ of truth more than a germ of truth to it.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah. It's not like it's completely out the blue.

[Josh Horowitz]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

You know, but then again, there are times where we kind of maybe leant into it.

[Josh Horowitz]

Sure.

[Tom Holland]

To try and, you know, create some buzz on the Internet.

[Josh Horowitz]

That's not the worst thing in the world.

[Tom Holland]

I am, Yeah, I am pretty loose lipped. But it's only because I'm really excited. Like, I love these movies.

[Josh Horowitz]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

I'm a fan first for 10 years before I joined this amazing universe. I was first in line at the cinema.

[Amy Pascal]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

So I feel like I'm a fan that kind of got into the trenches with them, you know?

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

And sometimes when I do these Interviews. I want to tell everyone what's going on because I'm.

[Josh Horowitz]

You're excited.

[Tom Holland]

I'm a fan.

[Josh Horowitz]

Let's jump to infinity war. Mr. Stark, I don't feel so good. Was that. Was that ever written on the page? Was that one of those where, like, you're workshopping different things in the moment?

[Tom Holland]

Like, I feel like I. Or I think maybe I gave myself a little too much credit in that moment. It definitely wasn't written as long as it was on the page. And maybe it was just my insatiable need to milk that moment. I don't know. But I think the I don't want to go was maybe something that I improvised.

[Josh Horowitz]

Okay.

[Tom Holland]

Or if it wasn't that it was improvised, it was that I kept saying it over and over again. I see. But truth be told, is that an acting exercise that I have done since I was a kid. To find real emotion, repetition is to repeat a phrase, whether it's, I'm so sorry, I don't want to go, or I love you, or something like that. It's just a really, really effective way of, like, bringing up emotions.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

So I think that scene is an amalgamation of, like, some acting exercises. Downey. Improvising, myself improvising. And also just the brothers giving us the perfect floor to. To dance on.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

You know, in those big moments, it's so funny.

[Josh Horowitz]

Like, obviously, I've talked to all of you guys from these films, and, like, I just talked to Paul Bettany recently, and he was talking about, you know, his death scene. Like, Joe was like, can you guys come up with something? Like, now this. But sometimes, I mean, that. That's also a beautiful thing. Like, yes, it's scary, but it's like, obviously they have something on the page. They have some ideas. But it's also, in these kind of movies, you don't think of it of being able to have that freedom, which is kind of awesome.

[Amy Pascal]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

And I think what is so good about Joe and Ann for these humongous movies is that they know that no one loves their character, like, the person that plays that character, you know, and everyone has an understanding of what would do, just what would be

[Josh Horowitz]

right and appropriate for them.

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

And appropriate for that character in that moment. And I think Joe and Anth are such great collaborators that they are not afraid to put you on the spot and say, like, what do you think Peter would do in this moment?

[Josh Horowitz]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

You know, like, we have our ideas, and this is what we've sat around in the writers room, but we want to hear what you think because you've been living, breathing this character for the last decade. Tell us what you think. And I think that that is why the movies feel so personal, even when they're so big.

[Josh Horowitz]

Right. Everybody's bringing their own personality, heart and soul.

[Tom Holland]

And people are bringing to the characters what they love about the characters. And I think that Joe and Anthony are some of the best at that.

[Josh Horowitz]

Except for Anthony Mackie, who's just kind of phoning it in. He just shows up. It's like, what do I do?

[Tom Holland]

Mackie came and surprised me on the movie. We were shooting in Peter's apartment and I was doing this scene, and all of a sudden Captain America was like, in my apartment. He just, like, walked on the latest

[Josh Horowitz]

movie in the latest one.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah, on Spider. Cause we were both filming at Pinewood, so Avengers was across the way and Spider Man, Brand New Day was on the east side or west side of the property. And, yeah, I was shooting this scene, and then Mackie just walks in.

[Josh Horowitz]

He just screams, cut the check. Yeah, number one's here.

[Tom Holland]

But no, we had a good time. It's nice to catch up. He looks great in his costume. He looked really good.

[Josh Horowitz]

You were being kind to Anthony Mackie, despite all the things he said about you.

[Tom Holland]

I didn't mean for that to sound like I said. It was such surpr.

[Josh Horowitz]

Finally he's got it into shape.

[Tom Holland]

He's okay, but it's about time.

[Josh Horowitz]

2019 is kind of a down moment in the midst of a great movie. There's a small period of time where you think Spider man is no longer gonna be part of the mcu.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah, that's right.

[Josh Horowitz]

About a month or so where it's like, we all thought, it's over. What do you, like, put me in your head during that time period? Were you kind of, like, ready to check out? Like, this isn't what I want. This isn't what I mean. How down were you about that prospect at the time?

[Tom Holland]

I think I was probably more confused than I was down. Yeah. In my eyes, everything between the two studios was fantastic.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

First movie went really well. The. The borrowing of the character for Civil War seemed to be a big success. But that said, I love Tom Rothman.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

I love Amy Pascal. I love Rachel o'. Connor. I still had a great sense of confidence that whatever we would do with that second movie would be great.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

And would be really fun. And it was made very aware to me that they weren't moving on from me. It was just that the relationship between, like, mum and dad had fallen apart a little bit.

[Josh Horowitz]

Kind of literally. Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

And I think, you know, both of the studios chatted with each other and figured it out and recognized that the character would service both. Yeah. Studios in a really good way. And I think that, you know, they. I don't know, I. I don't really know, but I just know that I always had confidence in the character. And Amy and Tom and Rachel, you

[Josh Horowitz]

talk about being, you know, protective of the character, having a voice. We kind of alluded to that, how it's kind of grown throughout the years. And part of that, I would imagine, is also we're talking about the Sony side of things. Obviously they were for a while trying to do all these spin off movies.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Josh Horowitz]

Morbius, Kraven, Venom, obviously. Did you have to kind of like take stands about, like, whether you. It made sense or not to be involved? Because I would imagine for each of those movies there's a point in time where they're like, we really want to use Spider man. And someone has to make the argument that it's not right or appropriate.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah, I, to be perfectly honest with you, I think that, you know, Rothman is a really smart guy and I think that he was building this universe and they had this plan to kind of merge the worlds at some point, and I think that they just never found the right time to do so. Yeah, I think it was on the cards.

[Josh Horowitz]

Sure.

[Tom Holland]

You know, and there were never any battles of like, right, we want you to be in this movie. And I don't want to be in this movie. That never happened.

[Josh Horowitz]

It was just like, we'll get there. We just never got there.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah, I think that was the idea was like, one day this will happen. And like lots of things in the creative world, it just never came to fruition. And I think that we were feeling great confidence in my franchise with Watts and with the Marvel guys and the MCU that Tom and the guys at Sony just wanted us to continue on our path.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

And. Yeah, but there was never any times where I was being forced into a movie I didn't want to be in. That never happened.

[Josh Horowitz]

It is, I mean, I will say, just from a fan perspective, speaking for many, it's like, probably the one thing we always wanted, obviously, was you and Hardy.

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

I mean, look, anything could happen. Anything could happen. You know, who knows what the future of, of my Spider man looks like?

[Josh Horowitz]

And you broke eye contact again. You just went away. You just went. You went over here again.

[Tom Holland]

Well, listen, just wait and see, bro. Just wait and see

[Josh Horowitz]

more happy sa confused. Coming up.

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

Reality TV is messy, Pop culture is louder than ever, and the Internet completely unhinged. Welcome to Roxanne and Chantel, the podcast where cousins Roxanne and Chantal break down reality tv, celebrity drama and the stories everyone's texting about. We recap the shows, spill the headlines, and sit down with the stars themselves. No filter, no boring. Takes just the tea. New episodes every week. If it's trending, we're talking about it. This is Roxanne and Chantel. Let's get into it. Oh, please, not that music. That music gives me nightmares from my childhood.

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Could we get something a little bit lighter?

[Tom Holland]

Some lighter music here?

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

Are you a fan of true crime TV shows?

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a producer or co-host)]

And what about Unsolved Mysteries, the show that jump started all of our love of true crime?

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

I'm Ellen Marsh.

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a producer or co-host)]

And I'm Joey Taranto.

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

And we host I Think Not, a true crime comedy podcast covering some of the wildest stories from your favorite true crime campy TV shows all the way to Unsolved Mysteries.

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Baby, you will laugh, you will cry. You'll think about true crime in a whole new way. And you'll also ask yourself, who gave these people mics?

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

New episodes of I think not are released every Wednesday, with bonus episodes out every Thursday on Patreon.

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a producer or co-host)]

And every Monday, you can listen to our true crime rundown where we go over the top true crime headlines of the week.

[Tom Holland]

So come and join us wherever you

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

listen to your podcasts.

[Josh Horowitz]

So no Way Home is a miracle of a film like that it even exists.

[Tom Holland]

It's awesome. I'm so proud of it.

[Josh Horowitz]

And that it wasn't just a novelty. It could have just been kind of like coasting on, like, this is awesome. Look at that. But it's emotional and somehow works. What do you take most pride in about that film from an acting perspective? From, like, a creative perspective, when you look at that achievement, I think sharing

[Tom Holland]

the screen with Toby and Andrew.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

I think as a fan of both of those guys and their movies, like, it's such a wild experience to play a character while doing it with, like, two of your heroes from when you were a kid.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

And having a shared experience, you know, playing Spider man is a really unique experience.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

You know, on the big screen, there's only three of us that have done it.

[Amy Pascal]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

And to share that with those guys was really awesome. I think working with a lot of the villains, the iconic villains, for me, as a fan, again, was just absolutely out of this world.

[Josh Horowitz]

Crazy to see Willem Dafoe across the set. Molina. Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

I mean, come on. It was crazy.

[Amy Pascal]

Yeah. And

[Tom Holland]

it just was an awesome experience we had. You know, we kept it a secret for the best, for the most part. You know, there were little things.

[Josh Horowitz]

His Uber eats stuff.

[Tom Holland]

I know, but what's so interesting is that, like, that while at the time, it felt like the walls were closing in and like, oh, my God, the world knows. The cat's out of the bag. It's over. It just added so much amazing speculation.

[Josh Horowitz]

Oh, my God. One of my favorite interview I think I've ever done is my postmortem with Andrew. Andrew after the movie came out, where he talked about lying to me for a year.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah. It's actually really tough, I think, when you. When you are sitting on these secrets and people are asking you about them and you are actually just lying all the time, that weighs really heavy on me.

[Josh Horowitz]

And to be clear, from my. From our perspective, at least, speaking for me, I don't actually want you to spill anything. I don't want the movie. I'm just enjoying the dance myself.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah, no, I get that. I get that. But, no, that was a crazy time.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

And a highlight for me. I'm so proud of John Watts and, like, what he did with that original franchise. You know, he really, really landed the plane there.

[Josh Horowitz]

So, again, talking about kind of like, creative input getting to this new film, as I understand you had some. Some ideas, you had some things you brought to the table. Yeah, I keep reading hearing spider puberty.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah.

[Josh Horowitz]

Is that.

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

Is that.

[Josh Horowitz]

Is that kind of like the. The leading. I don't know, sentiment you brought to the table? What was the pitch?

[Tom Holland]

I wish you could hear the lead balloon that spider puberty was in the room.

[Josh Horowitz]

Like, do you have anything else?

[Tom Holland]

Yeah, for me, it was. It was this idea of exploring how a superhero develops over time.

[Josh Horowitz]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

You know, as a young kid, you go through puberty and your body changes more than ever.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yep.

[Tom Holland]

In my franchise, we never got to explore the really exciting time of any superhero movie where someone is figuring out how to use these new gifts.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

And I always felt like I wanted to try and find a way to explore that. So my idea is very different to what's in the movie. And it evolved in the way that Peter evolved in a really big way. But I basically just put on the table, like, what happens if Spider man starts developing all of these new powers and he's getting stronger and he's getting faster and his senses are becoming too powerful and he. I didn't come up with the organic webs thing. At one point I was like, what if he had, like, fangs that come out his hands and he had, like, venom spikes at one point? And that is not in the movie, don't worry. And then, you know, we explored the nightmare sequences of him waking up as the Man Spider. And very quickly we were like, we do want children to enjoy this movie as well as adults. You know, it's a little bit too creepy. But yeah, I was really grateful to Destin and Amy and Kevin and all of the, you know, creative team for letting me sit in that writer's room and just kind of bout ideas back and forth and try things and explore different options and. And we went down so many different rabbit holes before we got to what the movie is today. And, you know, sometimes it's the worst idea, right, that you got to go

[Josh Horowitz]

down that road and then absolute gold

[Tom Holland]

nugget of a piece of information. So, yeah, it was really fun.

[Josh Horowitz]

So besides the stuff you just mentioned, I was curious because you've never been shy about pitching stuff. You famously pitched Tom Rothman, like, the James Bond origin thing that came uncharted in a way. Like, what is the craziest thing you've ever pitched, like, years ago for Spider man that just, like, never went anywhere? Is there one that jumps out at you that, like, maybe this was a good idea in the bathroom, but it's not a good idea in practicality?

[Tom Holland]

Oh, God. I can't think off the top of my head, but there will be some rogue ones in there. Okay, now I'm sure there are some terrible ideas that I've pitched over the years.

[Josh Horowitz]

So you talked before about, like, we all want to see miles at some point. Miles Morales, like, in your. In your head, will, you know, when it's time to kind of pass the baton and like, have you imagined how you want that to go down?

[Kevin Feige]

Oh, yeah.

[Tom Holland]

There's a whole. There's a whole plan that we have been working on for, I would say, since we finished Spider man, no Way Home. And it's like, laid out. It's gonna change for sure. But I have a really clear vision to the passing on of the ban. And I think it's really exciting. I know I get really excited when we have these meetings and chat about it.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

But that is the thing that I want to do most in this character

[Josh Horowitz]

for sure is obviously we're all selfish. We want to see Toby again, We want to see Andrew again. We want to see a new Miles. Do you think there's room for concurrent, like, for, you know, there was talk after no Way Home, a lot of different talk. Sure, sure. Andrew could do the thing in his multiverse, et cetera, like, as a fan, from a fan perspective. Because you were a fan first.

[Kevin Feige]

Yeah.

[Josh Horowitz]

See that?

[Tom Holland]

Like, I do.

[Kevin Feige]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

Are you kidding? I think what's been so fun over these last few years is that there's so many different Spider man mediums. You know, we have Spider in a While. That came out a few weeks ago. We have my version. We have, you know, the stuff that Sony's been doing. We have the animated movies that Sony make, which are just, like, the best Spider man movies that have ever been made. Those animated movies. Like, you can't. The heart in those movies is out of this world.

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Horowitz]

You should add Nick Cage to the Spidey Bros. Text chain. He's.

[Tom Holland]

That would be interesting. Maybe the whole screen just goes black and white when he texts.

[Josh Horowitz]

I don't know what kind of texter

[Tom Holland]

he is, but I don't know either. I don't know him. I don't know the guy. But. No, I think there's room for. Of course there's room for it. And, you know, I think DC are gonna start exploring that now. Like, I doesn't. I think they're doing a new Batman.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

That's running adjacent to Robert's Batman.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

I think Robert is so good in that role.

[Josh Horowitz]

I love this movie. And Matt Reid is.

[Tom Holland]

I think he's so good in that role.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah, he looks. I mean, you've seen the Odyssey, so you can.

[Tom Holland]

I mean, he's amazing in the Odyssey, dude. He. Like, what I love about Rob is that he. He never goes, like, down the middle.

[Josh Horowitz]

No, he's fearless.

[Tom Holland]

He's super fearless. And what he does in the Odyssey is. Is. Is top to top tier, for sure.

[Josh Horowitz]

Okay. So. So heading towards the finish line. Well, you mentioned Fred Astaire. I just want to bring that up because this is something you've been attached to for a long while. Yep. And it's interesting. I was reading up. I mean, we all know Fred Astaire a little bit, but, like, I was reading up, and I'm curious. Like, is this about, like, he famously, like, worked with his sister, and they kind of, like, had a. They. They broke up as a team. Like, it's kind of like. It sounds like a story of reinvention. He had to kind of, like, change his career and life. Like, what about this story has kept you attached for nearly five years, I think. And what's. What's exciting?

[Tom Holland]

I am super excited about the challenge.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

And equally daunted. I think the thing I love the most about the script at the minute is it's the story of two siblings.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

And being a sibling and a brother is like a huge part of my life, and I don't feel like I've had the opportunity to tap into that. In a way, the movie is still very much something that we are figuring out.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

So I don't really want to talk too much about, like, the ins and outs of what the movie will be, but I think thematically it's just really interesting. Yeah, it's really, really interesting. And it was finding that balance of, if you don't know who Fred Astaire is, it's still a movie for you.

[Josh Horowitz]

Sure.

[Tom Holland]

Because there's so much more to his life than being a movie star. That's interesting. And I think that's what we've been trying to figure out, because truth be told, if you ask my brother Paddy who Fred Astaire is, he has no idea.

[Josh Horowitz]

Right, right, right.

[Tom Holland]

And that, to me, is crazy. But I grew up a dancer and I love dancing. And I'm sure there are people my age at 30 who are like, I don't really know who he is. So, yeah, we're figuring it out. It'll be great. Paul King is such a lovely guy and a super talented filmmaker, so I have a lot of confidence in one

[Josh Horowitz]

step closer to the Paddington universe. There you go.

[Tom Holland]

Exactly.

[Josh Horowitz]

Will you be singing as well? Because, I mean, he's obviously known as a dancer, but he sang.

[Tom Holland]

That's some singing. Yeah, there's a bunch of singing. I got to play the piano a whole bunch. And yeah, it's going to be great. It's going to be a lot of fun.

[Josh Horowitz]

All right, we're going to end with this. The happy second fuse. Profoundly random questions. You've never got to do these. Let's go. I think I know the first answer, and I want to. I want to hear about it. Dogs or cats?

[Tom Holland]

Dogs. All day.

[Josh Horowitz]

Big time dog guy.

[Tom Holland]

Oh, man.

[Josh Horowitz]

What's the. What's your. What's the name of yours again? It's.

[Tom Holland]

I got Phil and Noon.

[Josh Horowitz]

Okay. They're two.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah. I am really allergic to cats, so it's a little bit of an unfair.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

Advantage. But my dogs are everything.

[Josh Horowitz]

I'll have you know, besides Happy Sack infused, my other passion right now is who's a good guest? My show, where I talk to actors and their dogs.

[Tom Holland]

Oh, Tom. Who has had the best dog so far?

[Josh Horowitz]

I'm not gonna rank the dogs, but

[Tom Holland]

what are we even doing?

[Josh Horowitz]

Well, here's what I'll say. Zoe Deutsch has a dog very much like mine. It's a pit mix.

[Tom Holland]

Cool.

[Josh Horowitz]

Love that. Just like a love bug. So that one I relate the most.

[Tom Holland]

Okay. Yeah.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

Very diplomatic. Who has the best dog?

[Josh Horowitz]

What do you collect?

[Tom Holland]

Good memories.

[Josh Horowitz]

Not a physical. Nothing.

[Tom Holland]

Not so much anymore.

[Josh Horowitz]

Okay.

[Tom Holland]

For a while I was, like, really into collecting watches, and. And then I got a really meaningful watch and I just don't want to take it off.

[Josh Horowitz]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

So then I was like, why would I watches when the watch I'm wearing is. It means more to me than buying any watch. So I guess I collect watches. But not anymore.

[Josh Horowitz]

Okay. Okay.

[Amy Pascal]

But yeah.

[Tom Holland]

Good times.

[Josh Horowitz]

Love it. Favorite video game of all time.

[Tom Holland]

Oh, the Last of Us.

[Josh Horowitz]

It's a good one.

[Tom Holland]

The second one. So good.

[Josh Horowitz]

Watch the series. Are you have been watching the hbo.

[Tom Holland]

I have not watched the series.

[Josh Horowitz]

I'm kidding.

[Tom Holland]

No, I have not watched the series because I love the game so much. Like, I don't play video games all that much. And the. The game is just so good.

[Josh Horowitz]

Have you played as yourself in Fortnite? There are multiple skins, I believe, of you.

[Tom Holland]

You know what, dude? I am so bad at Fortnite that I cannot play it because I just. I don't even think I've ever got a kill in Fortnite. And when. When you play those people that start building stuff, I don't know what to do.

[Josh Horowitz]

You need some cheat codes.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah, I don't know how to do that.

[Josh Horowitz]

Would you rather. This is the Dakota Johnson memorial question. She asked me this. I ask everybody, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

[Tom Holland]

A mouthful of bees. One bee in my butt, I think would be. Yeah. Yeah.

[Amy Pascal]

Okay.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah. What's the wallpaper on your phone, Zendaya? That's the correct answer.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah.

[Josh Horowitz]

By the way, did you enjoy the end of Euphoria?

[Tom Holland]

I love. Yeah. I mean, I'm always, like, continually blown away by how talented she is and how she holds herself and how much of a part of her life that whole experience was, and it's just a. It's an amazing achievement. And she's, you know, she's been really decorated for making those shows, but I think the relationships and the friendships she's made and the creative risks she's taken and the end result is something that she should be so proud of, and I'm so proud of her for doing it. And. Yeah. I mean, what an awesome. What an awesome run.

[Amy Pascal]

Yeah.

[Josh Horowitz]

Talk about a fearless performer. Last actor you were mistaken for. Ever happened. You're Tom Holland.

[Tom Holland]

I don't want to sound like a dick, though.

[Josh Horowitz]

I said it for you.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah, it's okay.

[Josh Horowitz]

You're not a dick. You're the last thing that support that.

[Tom Holland]

No, I don't know. My brother Sam has been mistaken for Timothee Chalamet before, though, and I was there with him. So we were standing together straight past me and straight up to my brother, like you or Timothee Chalamet. And I was fucking devastated.

[Josh Horowitz]

I was like.

[Tom Holland]

It was actually. Yeah, it was really funny.

[Josh Horowitz]

Promise wrapping up here. Worst noted director has ever given you.

[Tom Holland]

Oh, I can't say that out loud.

[Josh Horowitz]

Don't. Don't name the name. You don't have to say who it is.

[Tom Holland]

No. Because people will figure it out.

[Josh Horowitz]

Oh, it's.

[Tom Holland]

It's really bad.

[Josh Horowitz]

I want to know that off camera. And finally, in the spirit of happy, sad, confused, an actor who makes you happy. You see them on screen, you're in a better mood.

[Tom Holland]

Jacob Batalon. Just love that guy.

[Josh Horowitz]

He's. He's doing the dog show next week with me.

[Amy Pascal]

He is?

[Josh Horowitz]

Yes.

[Tom Holland]

Let's go, Jacob.

[Josh Horowitz]

Movie that makes you sad.

[Tom Holland]

About time.

[Josh Horowitz]

Great.

[Tom Holland]

In a really wonderful way, though.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah. And a food that makes you confused. You don't get it.

[Tom Holland]

Sea urchin.

[Josh Horowitz]

This has come up before.

[Tom Holland]

Who, why?

[Josh Horowitz]

Why? It's the consistency. Slimy.

[Tom Holland]

On earth.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah, we have.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah. Sea urchin.

[Josh Horowitz]

There it is. There it is. Tom Holland, finally, I guess on Happy Second Fuse. Congratulations.

[Tom Holland]

Thanks for having me on.

[Josh Horowitz]

The best movie ever made.

[Tom Holland]

You said it.

[Josh Horowitz]

It's on the poster now.

[Tom Holland]

You heard it here first, folks.

[Josh Horowitz]

Thanks for your time.

[Tom Holland]

Thanks so much, man. Always a pleasure.

[Josh Horowitz]

Thanks, man.

[Kevin Feige]

Hey, Amy.

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

Hey.

[Josh Horowitz]

Hello. How's it going? Good to see you both.

[Amy Pascal]

Good to see you too.

[Josh Horowitz]

Okay, let's talk. Let's take a look back. First of all, I'm just curious, when you look back at the course of these past four films, what feels like the biggest creative risk you guys took over that span?

[Amy Pascal]

Well, Kevin and I can look back on 27 years.

[Josh Horowitz]

We could go back that far if you want.

[Amy Pascal]

I'm happy to and I think. But when we think of these movies, it was really important to have to put Spider man into the mcu because he's a character that exists amongst other characters and that was, on the one hand, risky and on the other hand a no brainer. And I think we've, you know, I think that we've managed to keep Spider man on his own and also within a larger world. And I think that's. I think that was that we did that good.

[Kevin Feige]

I think we did good. We did good on that one.

[Amy Pascal]

I did good.

[Josh Horowitz]

I'm gonna say. Yes, I'm gonna say you did good.

[Amy Pascal]

No, but you know, because you could

[Tom Holland]

have gotten all lost.

[Josh Horowitz]

Totally.

[Kevin Feige]

It could have stunk.

[Amy Pascal]

It could have stunk.

[Josh Horowitz]

The history of studios, different studios intermingling and figuring out that it just doesn't happen.

[Amy Pascal]

It was us.

[Kevin Feige]

Well, it's a testament to Amy and to her love of Spider Man.

[Amy Pascal]

No, and to you and your love of spider Man. It was because Kevin loves Spider man and I love Spider man so much that we both wanted to do the right thing for him and we got our companies to agree.

[Kevin Feige]

You know, the other thing about a risk, which is. Which is weird to think about now, but excuse me, recasting him so soon after Andrew was a bit of a risk that was bringing him in 10 years ago through civil war was our way to try to mitigate that risk. And then also taking three movies to tell an elongated version of Spidey's origin that Sam told in the first half of a movie, I think was also a risk in bringing in, you know, non superhero supporting characters like Ned and MJ that play such a big part, which is what we wanted in his. In his high school environment. And then sitting in your press conference today, Josh, with the three of them now titans of industry and much better spokesman than we've ever been.

[Josh Horowitz]

Well, it's also. You reap the rewards of that risk that you just talked about because you have made another. What could be considered a risk on this film, which is the Hollywood playbook, is you go bigger. You go bigger, you keep escalating. And because those three actors are so phenomenal, because of what John and Jason.

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a producer or co-host)]

You go smaller.

[Josh Horowitz]

You went smaller.

[Amy Pascal]

Yeah.

[Josh Horowitz]

Was there an iteration of this where you said, like, let's try to go even bigger, or was it? It was always the mission statement.

[Amy Pascal]

It's hard to get bigger than three spider men.

[Kevin Feige]

Well, Amy does that in her animated movies with 100 Spider Men.

[Josh Horowitz]

That's fair, right?

[Amy Pascal]

That's fair. But, you know, after you do a movie with three spider men, which was a beautiful and generous reunion and generous experience for all of them, the point was really to concentrate on Peter. And going bigger now works because you can fucking help

[Josh Horowitz]

when you go to so called street level. A lot of characters were talked about. Was there ever. Did you ever go down the road of Daredevil Kingpin from what? Like Vincent has said, there are some rights issues on the. On the Kingpin side.

[Amy Pascal]

Right.

[Kevin Feige]

They're not. They're not. I mean, they're. They're things to navigate, like everything else. But. But we did. We talked about all those.

[Amy Pascal]

We had Daredevil in our movie.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Amy Pascal]

You know. Yeah.

[Josh Horowitz]

And is that. I mean, that's the thing with the Spider man pantheon is you have such an insane wealth to choose from on each one. And you know as well as I do, it's like. Like, you know, from a fan perspective, it bums me out a little bit that I've never seen Venom, Tom Hardy's Venom, and Tom's Spider man, and I'm sure. How close did you guys get to that actually happening along the way?

[Amy Pascal]

It would be great. Let's put it that way. Yeah.

[Josh Horowitz]

Do you still have hope?

[Kevin Feige]

Always have hope?

[Amy Pascal]

Nope.

[Josh Horowitz]

What are we without hope?

[Kevin Feige]

If we said no, we have.

[Josh Horowitz]

No, no, Josh. Go home and cry about it.

[Tom Holland]

We have hope.

[Kevin Feige]

We have no hope.

[Josh Horowitz]

But wait, there is an animated version in the works.

[Amy Pascal]

Yes, there is.

[Josh Horowitz]

Yes, there is. Okay. Okay, Fair enough. I kind of alluded to this because when I talk to you, Kevin, it's always like, you were a fan first. You came at this from a fan. You still are a fan. Can you talk a little bit more about the satisfaction of seeing Spider man and Punisher, Spider man and Hulk? It must make your geek heart very happy.

[Kevin Feige]

Yeah. It's surreal. It's not a spoiler. There's a very brief moment in the movie where. Where Spidey is perched on Hulk's back, and that's an image years ago, and certainly when we started and Amy made the Sam Raimi movies that I never thought would have been possible. Hulk was at one studio. Spidey was another studio. We were our own studio. So there are moments like that, and it's. And it's. I've been lucky enough for it to happen for a quarter of a century now where, yes, my. My inner nerd is very, very excited about what I'm. What I'm watching.

[Josh Horowitz]

Tom recently did the podcast with me, and he. You know, we talk about the future, and, like, Miles Morales always comes up, and he said to me, like, he already has in his brain how that kind of torch is passed. Are you all in alignment of. Kind of like, if and when you get there, how it goes.

[Amy Pascal]

If and when we get there will be alight.

[Josh Horowitz]

I mean, he has more of a creative seat at the table, obviously. It seems like this time especially, he was there. With you guys, I would still.

[Amy Pascal]

He was. He was. He's Spider Man. So he knows more about Spider man than anybody.

[Kevin Feige]

Yeah.

[Amy Pascal]

And yes, of course, we love Miles. We have a movie coming out next summer.

[Josh Horowitz]

How's it looking? It looks great. Do you get a sneak peek? Do you get a sneak peek?

[Amy Pascal]

No, I offer him a sneak peek.

[Josh Horowitz]

No, I don't. Your old buddy.

[Kevin Feige]

I would like to see it. As a fan. I'd like to see movies.

[Josh Horowitz]

Let's. We'll go theater. We'll go together.

[Amy Pascal]

You guys go together.

[Josh Horowitz]

One more reminiscent thing you talked about Sadie today. And I also think back to like the great choice you obviously made on Tom years back. Was it a hard choice? You put him through the wringer. I mean, as you should. You went to endless auditions, but ultimately

[Kevin Feige]

there were a lot of contenders. But as the choices whittled down, it became very, very clear.

[Amy Pascal]

Yeah.

[Kevin Feige]

That it was.

[Josh Horowitz]

That it was tough.

[Amy Pascal]

Yeah. I think the first time we actually saw him on camera, you know, that's the one. He's pretty. He was pretty hard to beat. Yeah. He just. He just has Peter Parker soul and,

[Kevin Feige]

and his agility like that. That's just the odd bonus that you're

[Josh Horowitz]

also a great fictionist.

[Kevin Feige]

He's also the best stunt.

[Amy Pascal]

Yes, he is.

[Kevin Feige]

Spidey we've had. He's not allowed to do that much anymore. But it's.

[Amy Pascal]

I know he's always wanting to. We always have to stop him.

[Josh Horowitz]

Indulge. I'm going to put your buddy on the hot seat for a second. We have a long history of me trying to like get dirt out of you. Can I do some rapid fire with you, please? You're so good at this.

[Amy Pascal]

Please.

[Josh Horowitz]

You're going to spat all of these away.

[Kevin Feige]

Okay.

[Josh Horowitz]

Okay.

[Amy Pascal]

Go. I'll watch.

[Kevin Feige]

No.

[Josh Horowitz]

Ryan Gosling wants to be Ghost Rider. Cynthia Erivo wants to be Storm. Why is Ryan Gosling not Ghost Rider? Why is Cynthia Erivo not Storm?

[Kevin Feige]

You never know what the future may bring. Both very good actors and great characters. Next. That's the rapid fire.

[Amy Pascal]

It wasn't that rapid.

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a producer or co-host)]

No.

[Josh Horowitz]

Adam Driver.

[Kevin Feige]

Yes.

[Josh Horowitz]

You've had conversations over many number of characters.

[Kevin Feige]

Many, many, many.

[Josh Horowitz]

Are we getting close to getting him on board?

[Kevin Feige]

It's no secret. We'd like to, but it's a tradition to zoom with him and then he passes.

[Tom Holland]

Is that.

[Kevin Feige]

That's a long lived tradition.

[Josh Horowitz]

Very cordial. It's a nice conversation. And then does he say does he pass in the moment or does he wait to pass afterwards?

[Kevin Feige]

He's usually upfront about how he's feeling. Yeah.

[Josh Horowitz]

How much time in therapy have you spent talking about Blade? This poor project. We just need to get this done. Kevin, how are you doing?

[Kevin Feige]

Therapy. Should we get into a therapy session?

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

Lie down.

[Josh Horowitz]

I mean, we all want it. Mahershala wants it. How are you feeling at this moment?

[Kevin Feige]

I'm feeling very excited that we got Wesley back for a time in Deadpool and Wolverine and like a gigantic loser and failure that we didn't get off the ground with Mahershala.

[Josh Horowitz]

Is there a world where Secret wars is two films?

[Kevin Feige]

Not this world, no.

[Josh Horowitz]

Okay. Doomsday sticking to its release date? Yes, definitely.

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

Okay.

[Josh Horowitz]

What does the MCU look like in a nutshell? Coming out of Secret Wars. Is it a re. Do you consider this a reboot?

[Kevin Feige]

No, but I look to the comics, as I always do, in terms of. In terms of our storytelling. And after both the Secret wars, but particularly the Hickman Secret wars from 10 years ago, there's a nice roadmap to where we can go.

[Josh Horowitz]

And last thing for you. How many X Men have you cast that I just don't know about? Are people signed on right now for X Men actors?

[Kevin Feige]

Not necessarily.

[Josh Horowitz]

Not necessarily.

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

Yeah.

[Josh Horowitz]

Okay. Okay. We're gonna go into this more in depth one day. You're coming on. Happy second, Hughes. Eventually. And I'm happy to talk Star Trek with you. Other things.

[Kevin Feige]

I'd rather you talk Star Trek with Amy on your part.

[Josh Horowitz]

I was a Trekkie before I was a Marvel fan, so we can go there. It's good to see you both. Congratulations. Thank you.

[Kevin Feige]

Thanks.

[Josh Horowitz]

Appreciate you guys.

[Tom Holland]

And so ends another edition of Happy Sad, Confused. Remember to review rate and subscribe to

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

this show on itunes or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tom Holland]

I'm a big podcast person.

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't

[Tom Holland]

should do this by Josh.

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Goodbye, Kyle.

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

Did the sound of those words call to you like Pavlov's dog? Then you might enjoy our podcast, Turtle Time.

[Tom Holland]

Every week you can join me, Riley

[Kevin Feige]

Hamilton, and my co host, Amy Scarlotta

[Tom Holland]

as we cover the most pressing Bravo news and dig into the new episodes.

[Kevin Feige]

And to answer important questions like who

[Tom Holland]

the hell is Adrienne Maloof in this world?

[Podcast Advertiser/Narrator]

Listen to Turtle Time on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday.