89: The HARD TRUTH About Cheating

Summary

Podcast Summary: Happy Wife Happy Life

Episode 89: The HARD TRUTH About Cheating

Date: November 17, 2025
Hosts: Kendahl Landreth and Jordan Myrick

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Episode Overview

In this candid, comedic and insightful installment of "Happy Wife Happy Life," Kendahl Landreth and Jordan Myrick continue their exploration of cheating in relationships—this time delving into listener questions, debating emotional versus physical cheating, and doling out the show’s signature blend of hard truths and heartfelt advice. The hosts unpack the complicated emotions around cheating, discuss the ethics of infidelity, and give pointed feedback to a listener confession. As always, their conversation is peppered with tangents, humor, and a lot of real talk about personal values and relationship dynamics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Banter and Relationship Dynamics (00:20–10:02)

• Comedic Recap: The duo opens with a light-hearted story about driving to the studio with Jordan’s laptop on the roof—illustrative of their dynamic and communication quirks.
• Responsibility in Relationships: Jordan expresses frustration over Kendahl not warning her, leading to a playful debate about unspoken expectations in marriage.
  • Kendahl’s Take: She attributes her hesitance to speak up to "youngest sibling mentality," always assuming others know better (02:14).
  • Jordan’s Take: Emphasizes the need to “see something, say something” (01:36).
• Bigger Picture: Connects the small annoyances to broader themes of mutual support, communication styles, and “having each other's back.”

Quote:
"That's the whole point of being married, is that you have someone else is doing...thinking for you."
— Jordan (05:16)

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2. Pet Peeves and Social Etiquette (06:03-10:02)

• Movie Theater Etiquette: Anecdote about people rushing during final scenes, segueing to frustrations with urgency and social behavior in crowds.
• Joy in Moments: Both advocate embracing shared experiences instead of “hacking the system” for convenience.

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3. Listener Questions on Cheating (10:06–24:26)

A. Not Feeling Bad After Being Cheated On (10:17–11:49)

• Hosts reassure the listener:
  • It’s normal to not feel upset—often indicates you’re checked out or already emotionally moved on.
  • If cheating is validating or prompts relief, “you shouldn’t be in that relationship anymore.”
  • "You already had gone through the breakup." —Kendahl (11:02)

B. Supporting a Cheated Friend (11:49–14:50)

• Tailor your reaction:
  • Some want commiseration ("they suck"), others want respect for their ex.
  • “Parrot” the friend’s tone before revealing true feelings.
  • Jordan and Kendahl discuss preferred support if roles were reversed: hype for the future, not condemn the past.

Quote:
“You deserve someone that treats you well. Sometimes love…just because you love someone doesn’t mean they’re going to treat you the best.”
— Jordan (14:32)

C. Is Cheating Ever Ethical? (23:47–24:26)

• Both firmly say no:
  • There’s no context that makes cheating ethical, as it breaches mutual agreement.
  • Kendahl calls out rationalizations: “Okay, you cheated on your wife. You’re being an ass.” (24:24)

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4. Emotional vs. Physical Cheating (24:26–32:37)

• Jordan: Emotional cheating is more hurtful—"it feels more intentional."
• Kendahl: Emotional cheating has more gray areas but agrees it can be worse than a physical slip.
• Distinguishing Degrees: Flirting vs. deep emotional intimacy. Full-blown emotional affairs are likened to “Mormon soaking” for their faux-restrained intensity.
• Notable Theory:
  • “A cheater isn’t always a cheater, but a liar is always a liar.”
  • Jordan’s view: lying represents a deeper character flaw, and coming clean is preferable; Kendahl’s counter: lying can be a trauma response and is possible to outgrow.

Memorable Moment:
"I think one time a cheater makes you even less likely to be a cheater ever again because it's upsetting."
— Kendahl (31:46)

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5. Whether to Confess Cheating (32:57–36:45)

• Differing Opinions:
  • Jordan: Once lying begins, complications multiply.
  • Kendahl: Some people believe it’s best not to confess if it won’t happen again, but she would feel compelled to tell.
• Short-Term vs. Long-Term: More ethical to break up than to admit to cheating in brief relationships. Both agree: hiding it leads to more deception.

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6. Listener Confession: The Other Woman (36:52–46:34)

Listener Story (36:53)

• Listener admits to hooking up with a guy who had a girlfriend, asks if she should "be burned at the stake."

Hosts’ Hard Truths

• No Burning at the Stake:
  • Both emphasize accountability over self-flagellation.
  • Critique framing of “they hated me on principle”—artificial villainizing of the girlfriend.
  • Advice: Stop hooking up with him, apologize to the girlfriend if possible.
  • Reflect on how brains twist reality to justify bad actions.

Quote
“You need kind of a wake up call for yourself. You're gonna be single when you're dead…If you can only find attraction to someone who's taken…it's not gonna work out.”
— Kendahl (46:14)

• Reframe Attraction: Stop romanticizing the “bad boy cheater,” and recognize this is actually an emotionally immature, unattractive choice.
• Empathy & Growth: Acknowledge the brain’s power to reframe but underscore the need for honesty and change.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “That's the whole point of being married, is that you have someone else is doing...thinking for you.” — Jordan (05:16)
• “You deserve someone that treats you well...just because you love someone doesn’t mean they're going to treat you the best.” — Jordan (14:32)
• “A cheater isn’t always a cheater, but a liar is always a liar.” — Jordan (24:57)
• “Cheating is wrong. It's wrong. There you go. Stop doing it.” — Kendahl (45:43)
• “You need kind of a wake up call for yourself...you're gonna be single when you're dead.” — Kendahl (46:14)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:20–10:02 – Opening stories, recurring relationship quirks
• 10:06–14:50 – Listener Q&A: Emotional aftermath of cheating, supporting friends
• 24:26–32:37 – Debating emotional vs. physical cheating; theory of “cheaters vs. liars”
• 32:57–36:45 – Should you confess? Ethics of disclosure
• 36:52–46:34 – Listener confession: The “other woman” and hosts’ tough-love response

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Tone and Style

• Warm, comedic, and openly direct; Kendahl and Jordan blend empathic advice with biting wit.
• Honest, sometimes brutally so, but rooted in care for listeners’ growth and well-being.
• Use of humor (“Mormon soaking,” “single when you’re dead”) keeps the episode lively even in serious discussion.

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Takeaways

• Cheating is rarely (if ever) ethical—don’t rationalize, take responsibility.
• Emotional cheating can cut deeper than physical, especially when intention and secrecy are involved.
• Supporting a friend after cheating requires sensitivity; match their emotional needs, don’t impose your own.
• Rationalizing or romanticizing being “the other” ultimately hurts everyone—including yourself.
• Communication, honesty, and personal growth are essential—don’t let self-deception or denial sabotage your life or relationships.

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Final Thoughts

Kendahl and Jordan strike a balance between no-nonsense wisdom and playful banter, offering both practical guidance and tough love. Their unique style makes for an episode that’s as entertaining as it is thought-provoking for anyone grappling with the complex realities of modern relationships.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Happy Wife, Happy Life. We're your hosts. I'm Kendall Landra.

[B]

And I'm Jordan Myra.

[A]

And we are two incredibly unqualified but.

[B]

Deeply in love comedians who are here to help you with all things relationships. And on today's episode, we're Talking Cheating Part 2. Hey, Ken.

[A]

Hi, Jord.

[B]

How are you? Good. We did have a different plan for today, but we really had so much to say about cheaters that we were like, we'll do a part two. We'll get in the question. We'll cover it more. Because I'm locked into this topic.

[A]

I know. Maybe I should be a little concerned.

[B]

Sorry. I love cheating.

[A]

Can I say a topic a little bit separate from cheating for two seconds is the fact that today we drove to the podcast studio with Gordon's laptop on the roof of our car.

[B]

I never do stuff like that.

[A]

I think most people don't. That is the craziest. That's crazy.

[B]

And the drive is not that close. We go over a bunch of different terrain. I'll say, and, Jordan, like, I saw.

[A]

You put it on the roof, and.

[B]

This is a problem we're having.

[A]

And I know. I knew the second I said this, I said, now this will become my fault. I guarantee it. But I just was like, of course you'll. I think it wasn't that I clocked. Oh, I need to tell you to take that off. I just remember seeing you put your laptop on the roof, and I. Then when we got out of the car, a podcast recording. You went, where's my laptop? And my stomach literally dropped into my vagina. And I was like, oh, my God. And we both turn, and Jordan's laptop is just sitting on the roof of the car.

[B]

The reason why it's your fault now is because we've talked about this so many times. If you see something, say something. Kendall is not good at this.

[A]

No, I'm not.

[B]

So there will be things where, like, I will. Let's say all of a sudden, I'm, like, cooking dinner, and then I have to run to the bathroom. And then all of a sudden, like, the pan is, like, smoking, and the fire alarm's going off, and then I'll be like, oh, my gosh, this is, like, burning. And Kendall will be like, oh, yeah, I thought it was burning, and it smells like it's burning. And I was looking at it, and it looks like it's burning, but I don't know. I just thought maybe you wanted it like that. And I'm like, kendall, if you see something, you have to.

[A]

I know. Well, but I'm telling you, and maybe I've said this before, I'm telling you.

[B]

This is Kendall's theory.

[A]

It is youngest sibling mentality. It is youngest sibling. It's deep in our bones to be like, first of all, if I've noticed something, everyone else has already noticed it because I'm dumb and I'm younger than everyone. Especially my siblings were all, like, seven years older than me. So most of the time when I would point something out, I was met with this. Yeah, Kendall, we already know that's what I'm usually met with. So you assume everyone has already seen it because you are the youngest or you're the stupidest person in the room. You grew up being the dumbest, most uneducated person in every room, but you.

[B]

Haven'T lived with your siblings for a long time.

[A]

But it's deeply ingrained. And you also are like, if I think. I think something, I must be wrong. Like, oh, if I think this is a problem, I must be incorrect. You just default.

[B]

You're right all the time. So why does it draw things that you could be helping me with?

[A]

But if I think, yes, 100. No, I am working on it. I just think with those things, I think I'm right. Those are more like ideas, though. Like, I can emotionally be like, no, I'm correct about this. But I think when it comes to, like, for example, what happened to us one time at an airport is I was like, oh, I feel like we're cutting it kind of close, like, more close than usual. But I realized that I was looking at the boarding time, and Jordan was looking at the takeoff time.

[B]

I thought the takeoff time was the boarding.

[A]

And I. When I finally did say, I was like, well, the boarding time is this time. And you were like, oh, my. Like, oh, like, why did you not say anything?

[B]

Well, because I had also been like, 7 30. 7 30. 7 30. We're boarding at 7:30. We're boarding at 7 30. It was like we were actually boarding at 7:30, 6:30 or whatever, because. And it was an international flight.

[A]

Wow. Jordan's really, like, playing it like we're getting cutting it close.

[B]

I think I've never done. I've never cut anything close. We're always there for, like, three hours early. So I kept saying, boarding's at 7:30, boardings at 7:30. And then finally, on the 100th time I said it, Kendall was like, well, no. Well, no, boarding's at 6:30. What? I said, oh, did you just see that on the ticket. Did they change the time? Well, no, it's always said that. Why didn't you say anything? I just figured you knew. You figured I knew, but I was saying the wrong thing on purpose. I'm like, you have to help me out more.

[A]

But that's not what happened today. I did not think it is. Oh, Jordan. I wasn't sitting in the front seat going, I'm sure Jordan wants their laptop on the roof of the car. I just clocked for a brief second when I was holding also a huge. I was holding a huge bag of trash that I was gonna go throw away. So as I was running away with the bag of trash, I was like, jordan, but my brain just clocked that you put your laptop on the roof.

[B]

But you need to be more responsible for me like I am for you. And you need to say, don't put your laptop on the roof of the car. You're going to leave it there.

[A]

But you know that if I put my laptop on the roof, this conversation would not. It would be, why would you put your laptop on the roof?

[B]

If you put your laptop on the roof and I clocked it, I would say, don't put your laptop on the roof of the car. It's like the easiest way to leave something on top of the car. The laptop is the same color as the car and it's flat. No. No.

[A]

You don't think our laptop is not covered. Our car's not covered in stickers.

[B]

No, but it's close enough in color. You don't think that if you put your laptop on top of the car? I wouldn't say, don't put your laptop on top of the car. I absolutely.

[A]

But then why would you put your laptop on top of the car today? I wasn't thinking.

[B]

That's why sometimes you're just not thinking. And that's the whole point of being married, is that you have someone else is doing.

[A]

You should have married someone a lot smarter than me.

[B]

We got you.

[A]

If you thought the reason of marriage is to have someone else thinking, oh, Lord, help her. No. But what's weird is that I was like, oh, it must have, like, the case you have in your laptop must have a really strong grip. But then, like, everyone in the studio was, like, touching the bottom of it. It's like, so, like, smooth, like a sheet of plastic. Well, I'm sorry. I understand. Didn't stop that situation.

[B]

Thank you. But you know what I'm saying. I just need you to have my back.

[A]

I hate when you say that.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

Because I do have your back.

[B]

Sorry, I need you to have.

[A]

Admit I have your back.

[B]

You have my back. In some ways, I have a big back. That's your butt.

[A]

I throw it back, Kendall.

[B]

Also, this is like the other night when I got mad at you, at Jennifer's body, because those women wanted to get out of her aisle. And I said, I wish you had just looked at them and said, can we have a second? Basically, am I in trouble?

[A]

No.

[B]

Basically, not yet.

[A]

We'll see what the next sentence you're gonna say.

[B]

Basically, we're seeing a movie. This wasn't that egregious of an error, but we're seeing a movie. And the movie literally just ended. But of course, everyone's like, no, not even ended.

[A]

It was like, people were trying to leave during, like, the final credit scene. Like, there's a scene. Yes, they were trying to leave during it.

[B]

So everyone's trying to, like, rush out of our aisle. And then, like, these women are, like, trying to be like, excuse us. Excuse us. Excuse. Clearly, like, don't just want to walk over us. Want Kendall and I to get up. But, like, first of all, I'm still watching the movie. Second of all, like, my coat is on the chair. My bag is, like, sitting next to.

[A]

Me on the floor.

[B]

It's still pitch black in the theater. And Kendall just looks at me. She goes. She's like, get up. These women want to get out. Get up. And I look to them and tell.

[A]

Them, well, and I'm sorry that I didn't do that. I am sorry for that. But I think what I was feeling was the way. Because they. They hadn't been like, can we get by? They were just walking towards us. And I turned to him was like, they're about to. They're about to, like, step over us. Even though it was one of those movie theaters where the seats are, like, made for Polly Pockets. And you're like, there's literally no.

[B]

You.

[A]

You can't walk over me. Like, you can't walk. It's not like that. Like, one of us has to get up, and then you can walk by, or you're going to have, like, your crotch in my eyeball. Like, that's what's going to be happening. And so I could see them already going to, like, step over me. So I was more like, jordan, for my sake, please can we just get up and reassess over there? But I think. But I think it came off is that I was kind of like, I want to accommodate these people. But I was more like, I don't want these people to, like, step on my Gucci shoes because they were very vulnerable sitting there, and I just didn't want. They were on my feet. I didn't want them touching them with their little shoes that. Who knows? I just. So I think. But I felt bad that I wasn't like, can I have a second? But I think they would have just been like, oh, no big deal, and then walked over my Gucci shoes.

[B]

So it sounds like between me and the Gucci shoes, I'm.

[A]

That's. I'm saying. And I think that's what it's sounding. No, but I am sorry, but I think people. I love you, too. I, I. I do feel like people. A pet peeve of mine in general. And I feel like it's so much less of a problem in California, but it still is a problem. The way people act around the thought of having to leave a parking garage is so dramatic. Like, I'm sorry. You are acting as if you don't get out of this theater or this stadium within two seconds as, like, you're gonna be shot in the head when it's acting.

[B]

Tsunami is coming.

[A]

Yes. I'm like, you're gonna have to wait in a parking garage line.

[B]

And that's what happens when you go to a big event.

[A]

Y.

[B]

Yes. Like, you have decided when you get a ticket to the big event that you will be waiting in a line to pay to get out of the parking lot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then you'll be waiting in a line to get out of the parking lot. It's just the way it is. The only, I think, acceptable reason is to rush out of a theater during curtain call. My biggest pet peeve. Or, like, a movie. In that situation, you have to go to the bathroom. I think you have to say, I'm so sorry. I really have to use.

[A]

You have to scream, I'm having diarrhea to every usher.

[B]

So, sorry, I really have to use the restroom. Yes. Then I think it's fine. But other than that, if you're just rushing to your car, I do think that's sad, rude.

[A]

And it's also, like, I think it really. There's so many people where I'm like, you spend your life trying to, like, hack the system and be like, I'm not gonna have to wait in line, and I'm not gonna have to do this. I'm not gonna do this. And in it, your life is, like, miserable because we stand and we enjoy the curtain call, and then guess what? Because I like my wife, we Walk back to the car slowly, slowly in a huge crowd of people.

[B]

Beautiful.

[A]

And then we chat and then we're waiting in the car in this long line that at the end of the day usually takes like 15 to 20.

[B]

Minutes, it's not that long.

[A]

And we chat versus like a person who's like sprinting out of there not enjoying any aspect of this thing they paid for. And then they get out of there short like five minutes. And I'm like, yeah, cuz you don't know how to enjoy a moment.

[B]

Absolutely. These people are losers. We have some exciting questions.

[A]

Come on, tell it to me.

[B]

I think this first question is really interesting. It feels like something we haven't talked about.

[A]

And these are all about cheating.

[B]

These are all about cheating. Okay. I think unless people left questions, which I'll.

[A]

Hey, I'll answer this too.

[B]

Other random things this person says. Should I feel guilty for not being upset about my partner cheating? Am I okay? No, no.

[A]

Because I assume what's happened is you felt. If it's. To me, that reads as it was almost the cheating was more validating than anything else.

[B]

Yeah, the cheating was.

[A]

Yes, this all makes sense.

[B]

Either the relationship was already bad or you weren't that into it. Or maybe you cheated at some point or you've been a cheater in the past. So you feel like this is something like karmically coming back to you, regardless of what it is. I say good for you for not feeling bad, but you certainly shouldn't be in that relationship anymore. I think if they cheat and you're unfazed, great, you shouldn't be in that relationship.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. No, I mean obviously you don't care that much or you care, but you grieved it a long time ago and like I don't know how this happened for you, but I could see a world where like a year ago you were like sobbing a bunch all the time and then you just got over it and you like already. I feel like I see that so much and I've experienced that where I'm like, oh, I went through the breakup while we were in the relationship. Now that it's over I feel insane. Cuz it's like the day after and I'm like, I actually feel great. It's like yeah, cuz now you already had gone through the breakup or being forced to still pretend to be in it even though you knew it was ending and now you get to leave. Or I feel like sometimes it's almost worse if someone acts like a cheater. Like the way they treat you, they kind of seem like they're not that interested, not that attracted to you. Maybe they seem more interested in other people, but they're not cheating. And you're like, I don't have any proof that the way you're making me feel is valid. And that is, like, a validating thing.

[B]

I agree. You're right. This person says, how do you support a friend who recently got cheated on? Oh, I think for me, you got to read the room. Because two of my best friends feel very differently about this. One of my best friends, they want you to be like, they suck. They're the worst person in the world. I hate them. They were always beneath you. You're a goddess, and they're disgusting. Like, one of my best friends really wants you to be like that. And some people do want that. And I would say that's more common. Right. I think a lot of people want you to be like that, but I think you have to be careful, because one of my other best friends does not want that. My other best friend does not want you talking bad about the person they used to be with. You can hype them. You can be like, you deserve better, but you can't put their partner down, because I think they feel more like their partner is or was a reflection of them. When you're talking bad about their partner or their ex partner, you're kind of talking bad about them in a way I think is a little more. What?

[A]

Well, especially if you're. If you're talking to someone, I don't know who you're talking about, but if they've been together for a long time and you're like, okay, you're talking ultimately about a person that I, like, dedicated many, many years of my life to.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Versus, like, your college boyfriend cheats on you. I feel like it's more. Feels fine to be like, he's a. Yeah.

[B]

And I think you just have to really dip your toe in the water. I think you have to test it. So, like, if your friend is like, I'm just so hurt. You have to. You have to, like, parrot a lot of the things they say before you can figure out how to really speak your true feelings in a way that make them feel better.

[A]

Which one do you think you'd be like if people. If I cheated on you, would you want people to be like, kendall was so stupid. I always hated her, Actually, I think.

[B]

There'S a middle ground for me. I don't. I wouldn't want them to be like, I always hated her. Because I'd be like, why didn't you say something sooner? Why?

[A]

You just want to get her, and she's bad.

[B]

Why'd you do that? I wouldn't like that, but I think I would like to be like, that is so messed up, and she's a loser for doing that. And clearly, she's not the person you thought she was.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And, like, you're gonna do so much better. Like, I think I need more, like, hyping up for the future, not condemning of the past.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Is how I would feel, but I think, you know, if she's like, if your. If your best friend is like, I'm just so hurt, you have to be like, I know. I completely understand. Like, I would feel so hurt, too. I can't believe this happened to you, and I'm so sorry. And then they'll be like. They'll say something that'll kind of lead. They'll be like, you know, it's just hard because we had, like, been together for so long, and I love him so much. Okay. I think you get what the tone is, and I think you can be like, I know. It's like, that's. That's so. That's so hard. But, you know, sometimes love. You know, just because you love someone doesn't mean that they're gonna treat you the best.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's clearly what's happening in this situation. And you deserve someone that treats you well. Yeah. Like, you can kind of. Like, that's. I think that's One Direction. Or if your friend is like, I'm gonna set his car on fire, I think you can be like, absolutely.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Like, yeah, well, okay. Let's be careful.

[A]

Allegedly.

[B]

Yeah. Allegedly. I think it depends on, like, you just. I think you have to follow their.

[A]

Yeah, well, because I also think. Once again, I think it so depends on the age you're. You're at. Because I think if you're dating a total loser from, like, what I. The person I dated at 18, for example. Of course, when people would be like, and they did not cheat on me, but when people would be like, they were a total idiot, I would be like, yeah, they are a total idiot. Because they were. I'm not saying now they are, but they were eight. Yes.

[B]

It's like, it doesn't matter.

[A]

We were 18. We were both idiots. It's like, it's so easy to be like, that's true. Like, they were a total loser. But I think when you've dated someone for a really long Time. It's like it always almost feels. I hope this meta. This comparison isn't too off the rocker, but it almost feels like when my dad passed away, so many people, which is so sweet. And honestly, I've come more around too, as the years have gone on, but they would be like, he's still with you. Like, he's watching over you. And I think I would struggle because I would be like, well, I don't really believe that. And I. Like I said, I've, you know, been on a journey with it since, but I think I would be like. Well, it kind of like, feels like it actually doesn't really make me feel better because I think my. My sadness is coming from the fact that I don't think that. And I think it's like so much of how we grieve. All the coping mechanisms for grief really go, like, come from a religious place. And so when you don't feel that religious or you're. You haven't connected with religious stuff in the past, and then you have someone close to you die, it's kind of like, well, now the only ways we have to cope is for you to basically pretend that you believe in religious stuff and believe that your dad is up in heaven watching every move you make. And I struggled with that in the beginning. And it feels. I hope this isn't too detached, but it feels similar to, like, if you dated someone for a really long time and you really liked them and your friends really liked them. Because I think oftentimes this is a common thing. It's not just someone dates a total douchebag. And is that a.

[B]

Sure, no. Douchebag is not a slur.

[A]

Well, I heard someone one time was like, well, technically that's a thing to clean a vagina. So it's offensive that we call it a bad thing for men. You know what I mean?

[B]

I think maybe that's a, like, friend who's too woke to me, because I think, like, first of all, if we.

[A]

Want to, I'm reclaiming it.

[B]

If we want to go even woker, men can have vaginas.

[A]

Okay. Yes. Okay. Yes, 100%.

[B]

Second of all, I think that.

[A]

And that's not even woker. That's just true. You're right. I didn't even think about that. So wait, yeah, douchebag is fine.

[B]

A man can have a vagina and a woman can have a penis. And also then on top of that, I think that it. But it's like a thing to clean you. So there is, like a dirty connotation to it if you're using it to clean.

[A]

Yeah. Also like a douchebag feels like a thing that doesn't actually exist. Have you ever seen one? Have you used one?

[B]

They.

[A]

That's too personal. You can tell me one.

[B]

I've never used one. I don't believe in using, like, specialized things to clean your genitals.

[A]

I agree. And I. Well, actually, when we first started dating, I had all these sprays I would spray up there and you made me throw them away.

[B]

Kendall had a bunch of Summer's Eve.

[A]

Sorry. Okay.

[B]

I was like, they might want to sponsor the podcast away. You just use, like, normal. Like, I know, like, I think like.

[A]

A netty pot and a douchebag were the same thing for years.

[B]

So you were trying to stick a douchebag up your nose?

[A]

Come on. No, cuz I would never use a netty pot. I've heard those are bad too. I heard that's a slur.

[B]

You can. No, you can use the neti pot. It just has to be cleaned properly. Yeah. Also, I'm sure there's like, some douchebags that are, like, natural and like work and some douchebags that are like.

[A]

Which is so true to dating too.

[B]

Not. Which is so true.

[A]

Just because your boyfriend seems natural does not mean that he's not a douchebag.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

My point is, is that sometimes people. Yeah, you could date a clear douchebag, but I feel like, especially as an adult, the more like, real thing is that you're dating a person for 10 who is pretty normal and your friends have liked and maybe some didn't. But also they're just a normal person that you really did like. So then when they cheat on you and people are like, they always sucked ass, you're like. It feels kind of like when people would tell me that my dad was watching over me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I'm just like, this is not real. This is made up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now, granted.

[B]

Can I ask what I always say your dad is watching us.

[A]

First of all, I've come more around to it, and I also think it's different when you say it, because I.

[B]

Think it from a way. I'm saying it from a ghost way.

[A]

You're saying it from a ghost way, which I do feel like I think I started to be like, it's whatever makes you feel better. And I think the thought of my dad watching over me sometimes makes me feel better. So I was like, you can choose to just find comfort in that versus I think, you know, when you're like, parent first passes away. I think you have so much anger, too, that you're like, you're just like. But he's not. So, like, I actually literally need him to see me do all of these things that I'm gonna do in my life. He's not going to be there for it. Versus, I think now I do feel a little bit more comforted by He's. He's watching over you. And when you say it, I do feel comforted by it. And I never felt, to be clear, offended by it. I wasn't like.

[B]

You didn't feel offended.

[A]

I wasn't like, how dare these people putting their Christian views on me. Because that is not like, a nice sentiment.

[B]

People are trying to be nice. Yes.

[A]

And I always felt comforted by the person saying it. Like, whenever you said it to me, I felt comforted because it's always someone trying to make me feel better. So it wasn't me being like, they're saying that and secretly I'm pissed off. It was more that, like, I didn't feel like, I didn't feel it. It didn't feel true to me. So it felt comforting that they were being sweet, but it didn't feel comforting that I actually was like, my dad's watching over me, if that makes sense.

[B]

Yeah, that totally makes.

[A]

But I think I now more connect to that a little bit. I'm more. Now I'm like, my dad is watching over me in a ghost or. Yeah, in a ghost way.

[B]

But not when we're having sex.

[A]

No, that's what I was saying. Sometimes I'm also like, I don't. I more wish I could, like, write him, like, letters, texts that were just. Yeah. Like, here's a quick recap. Like, I don't want you seeing everything, but I would love to know the.

[B]

Stuff you're accomplishing professionally.

[A]

100. Because that was. This is, like, kind of personal. But that was a huge mental, like a huge, I, I guess, quarter life crisis I had when my dad died. And I was like, I don't think people. I never thought I was doing things to make my parents, like, for my parents, if that makes sense. Like, obviously, I want to make my parents proud. Everyone does.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But it wasn't like I felt like I was doing career things for my parents, especially because I'm like, well, if I was doing that, I probably would have picked a more like, realistic career choice.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I think then I was like, oh, I never really, like, for example, with snl, my dream as a kid was always be on SNL But I realized I was like, well, I never really pictured getting on snl. I always pictured telling my parents I got on snl.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And so then when my dad died, I was like, do I even want to do this for a living? Or did I just want to tell my dad I did this for a living? And then you're like, oh, my God, now he's gone. What am I doing?

[B]

100.

[A]

I never thought of myself as someone who did things for my parents like that, but I think they're in. Everyone is like this, you know, biological need for your parents approval. And so I realized I was like, oh, I never really thought about winning an Emmy. I thought about, like, thanking my dad while I was winning an Emmy and him being excited. And him being excited. And so then I'm like, well, that's never going to happen. And then I'm like, am I even excited about winning an Emmy? And the answer is yes.

[B]

Give her an Emmy.

[A]

Give me an Emmy. Podcasting is being added to Emmys.

[B]

No, it's not.

[A]

Really? Yeah. We weren't nominated.

[B]

Did you know?

[A]

Pretty sure. Right? Good hang with Amy Poehler was nominated. They are.

[B]

What?

[A]

They're doing it starting next year. We. Once again, we're not nominated. But I'm just.

[B]

Yeah, but there's time. We could get there maybe one day.

[A]

I know, but isn't that crazy?

[B]

What? So it's. What's going to be, like, Amy Poehler and, like, Joe Rogan probably.

[A]

I don't think Joe Rogan's going. I think it's going to be a lot of companion podcast.

[B]

What's that like?

[A]

Like we could be podcast for shows. For other. For popular shows.

[B]

Podcast for shows.

[A]

Well, no, but Amy. But totally. But I feel like good hang isn't that. And I think she was nominated. Maybe I'm wrong, though. Maybe I just saw that.

[B]

Well, it hasn't. They're not doing it yet.

[A]

No, but I think they like. Well, I'll look into it.

[B]

I'm curious.

[A]

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[B]

Surprise, surprise. I'm incorrect.

[A]

Maybe I saw a thing that was like, announcing that would be a thing and then was kind of like, something about Amy Fuller's podcast because she is, like, one of the most popular podcasts. But no, never mind. They haven't been released yet.

[B]

So maybe we are going to be nominated. John, cross your fingers. This person says, is cheating ever ethical? And I'm gonna say, no, you're not doing it, because why is it ethical? Yeah, it's not.

[A]

No, it's not ethical. It's like a thing that's like anything. It's completely made up, and all of our language is just invented so that we can try to communicate better. It's not like, ethical is a thing that scientists can prove. You know what I mean? And, like, ethical depends on who you're talking to. I just am like, it. We have to, like, it's fine. You can just, like, you're not and, like, lean into it. Okay, you cheated on your wife. You're being an ass.

[B]

I agree. I agree. These are two questions I'm gonna weave together. So someone says, would you be more hurt by emotional or physical cheating? I'm gonna say emotional, and then I'll get to you. The. The second question that I want to tie into it is this person said, I want to hear more about Jordan's theory. A cheater isn't always a cheater, but a liar is always a liar. I've said this on the podcast before, and I really firmly believe it now. Granted. Well, okay, let me backtrack. So I think emotional cheating is more hurtful because it feels more intentional. More.

[A]

Ooh, might disagree.

[B]

Okay, we'll get to this. Because I think I'm also, like, getting drunk and hooking up with a coworker at a work party one time and then being like, I'm so sorry I did that. That was a huge mistake. I don't think is the biggest deal in the world. I think if I found out that my partner had been emotionally cheating on me for three months with their co worker and then sexually cheated on me, that would be like, a total game.

[A]

Oh, 100.

[B]

So I'm like. Because of that, I think that emotional element is much worse. And I don't think you can emotionally cheat accidentally. I don't think you can physically.

[A]

Well, maybe that's.

[B]

But I think it's. I think it's closer to, I guess, to me.

[A]

I think of emotional cheating as having so many more gray areas. I think, like, and that's why I think I would be. If I found text messages from you and another person for three months or even a week, and you'd been like, I. You'd never physically done anything, but you were like, I'm in love with you. Like, I don't know what to do. I feel so madly, like, just infatuated with you. That would hurt a million times worse than any physical cheating you could do. But I think more often than not, the emotional cheating is so much more in the gray area than that. And I think there's not as many gray areas with physical cheating. Like, even when it comes to you being drunk, for example, which I feel like is always how I would assume any of this would happen. It's like, if you're drunk, you still make a choice to physically cheat on me, and it's a active, like, I'm about to cheat on you and I'm doing it. Versus, I think, with emotional cheating. I think it's very it. Like, when either of us have been drunk and let's say we're out with a friend or a new acquaintance, and we're laughing and we put a hand on their shoulder, and we start, like, really? Well, no, let's take the hand out of it, because that's physical.

[B]

But.

[A]

But. But we start being, like, connecting and being like, oh, my God, we're so similar. We're blah, blah, blah, blah. That feels like it gets into gray area territory so fast. That feels not as much like a choice where maybe the next. Like, once you're in the Uber home, you're like, ooh, that felt maybe not good to me, though. That's different.

[B]

To me, that's like flirting. Oh, maybe I got too flirty. Okay, whatever. To me, emotional cheating is also a choice to me. It's like you get in that Uber and then you send that person a text message like, yeah, you tonight, and I miss you already.

[A]

No, that's way Worse. That's way worse. You're right.

[B]

Cheating is like, is the same thing as cheating, but just minus the physical stuff. So you could be, I love you. I, you know, you are.

[A]

No, that's the one that's crazy to me.

[B]

That's emotional cheating. That emotional cheating is not like, oh, I was a little too flirty. Maybe I put the wrong message out there. Yeah, that's like, totally. Okay. The emotional cheating is like fully, fully cheating but minus the physical part. Like, you are essentially having a. You are having relations with this person.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Minus the, the physical.

[A]

No, you're so right. And also I think it's weird because it actually feels so embarrassing. I. That level of emotional cheating, which I have known people have done this, I find it to be the most deeply embarrassing thing ever because it's like, I find that all these people think it's kind of like Mormon soaking.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They think they're like, well, but we haven't had sex. Oh, but we're keeping. It almost feels even worse because they know that because they can't have sex, it's making it hotter and it's sexier and it's like, this is so embarrassing, you guys. Yeah, that's so, that's so. You're right. I think you're right. I think I thought maybe there was more of a gray area. I think you hear people say a lot like, well, I think there maybe was a little bit of emotional cheating and a little bit of emotional cheating. I think that can mean so many different things to me.

[B]

A little bit of emotional cheating would be like a kiss versus having sex.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Where it's like, not as bad. It's still a thing you're not supposed to be doing, but it's still not as bad as like full blown emotional cheating. It's not as bad as full blown sex, but it's still like, you're still not supposed to be doing it to me, cheating. There has to be an intentional element to it. Because if you're just texting someone and being like, nice and it's coming off as flirty and there's no intentionality behind it, I'm like, I don't know. That just doesn't. I don't think that's. I don't think that happens as much. You know what I mean? So I think there are things like that. But when I see a cheater isn't always a cheater, but a liar is always a liar, I think it is much easier to accidental. Not even accidentally, but I think it's Much easier to slip up and cheat than it is to slip up and lie.

[A]

I disagree.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Because I think lying at its core, of course we have pathological liars.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

That's a different thing. Like, I. Yes, I think a pathological liar is always a liar, but I think that's rooted in, like, mental health problems that, like, I mean, maybe they wouldn't. Oh, I. I think that's a true pathological liar that's rooted in such deep stuff that, like, unless they went to, like, a program, I don't think that could be fixed. But I think white lies, lying about things is, at its core, like a trauma response.

[B]

I don't agree. I think that it can be, but I don't think that it always is. And I also think that if it's your trauma response, then you have to unlearn it.

[A]

Oh, I agree. But then my point is 100. It's not right. But then I'm like, once a liar, always a liar. To me, I go, well, no, because you can heal from the need to lie.

[B]

I think that I'm obviously being hyperbolic when I say, well, then I'm a.

[A]

Liar, always a liar, never trying to ruin your hyperbole.

[B]

Thank you, baby. No, but I'm just saying, I truly, in my heart of hearts, believe anyone can change at any time when they want to change. But I think it's harder to stop being a liar than it is to stop being a cheater. And I think it is more common for people to stop cheating than it is for them to stop lying. I think cheating and lying are so intertwined. But I also think that, like.

[A]

Yeah, I guess they're kind of one in the same. I guess I think serial cheating is like a the boss level need for attention is how I view it. And that I have found very hard to change in a person.

[B]

But a lot of times that is tied to lying. How often do you meet serial cheaters that are like, oh, I cheated. I cheated on you. I'm sorry, let's break up. Like, it's just Usher never like that. Right. And he's changed, as I said in the last episode.

[A]

Yeah, that's true. Not a liar.

[B]

I guess he's different, but yeah, they're. They're so tied together. So obviously I'm being nitpicky with, like, what that means.

[A]

No, I totally. I. Yeah.

[B]

What I mean when I say it is, I do think there is a world in which you get caught up in a moment and you kiss when you shouldn't have. Do I think that that means you're always going to do that. No, I think sometimes people cheat. One time, I actually agree.

[A]

I think one time a cheater makes you even more. Less likely to be a cheater ever again because it's upsetting.

[B]

A compulsive cheater, because I think that cheating seems very upsetting. So I think if you cheat, you get caught up in a moment one time, you make a mistake drunk one time. For me, personally, if I did that, I would be like, okay, well, after this, I'm not drinking anymore. Okay. After this, I'm gonna. You know what? Like, I think I would make a lot of big changes. And I think there's a world in which that is real. It's not beyond my comprehension to be like, oh, I'm in a bad relationship. We're not communicating well. We're not, like, doing well together. We're probably on our way out. Or maybe we're not on our way out. Maybe we're married, but we're having a dip in our marriage. Whatever. I get caught up in a moment, I cheat. Right. Do I think that's acceptable? No, but it's not beyond my comprehensive.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Whereas, like, I really don't think there's ever a reason to lie to your partner. Yeah. And I think that if you. Even more so the lying in relation to cheating, if you cheat and come clean about it, I think that's much better. And you're much less likely to cheat again than if you cheat and lie about it.

[A]

You always think I would. I wouldn't be able to not. But I have heard some people be like, don't. Just don't. If you're not going to do it again, just don't tell them.

[B]

What do you think about that?

[A]

I wouldn't. I would not be able to do that. I would eat me alive. But I also think if you've already processed it yourself, it's not. I. I could understand the argument of, like, why would you upset your partner? Why would you forever ruin the trust in your relationship? If you especially feel like there doesn't need to be a reason for the trust to be broken even. Although I guess technically, well, there is, because you did do it. But if you're like, no, that was like, crazy. I, like, don't know what's going on with me. Like, I'm gonna get back into therapy. I'm gonna do all these things. If I tell my partner this, especially, let's say the partner has, like, pre or, like, past issues with cheating and anxiety around it. Do you think there's a world where, like, not telling them is a good idea? I think, I think it's never gonna. Because I think what's gonna end up happening is it's gonna come out later and that's gonna be way worse.

[B]

I think if there was a world in which you were like, it will never come out. I have moved past it and learned from it. Like, I think sometimes people, yeah. Will just dump things on you because they feel so guilty about it and now they make it your problem or whatever. But I, yeah, I, I wholeheartedly agree.

[A]

With you because I also think lies will have to come from it if then, oh, we're going to a movie night out at this, like, I'm thinking of like, sinespia, like, okay, we're going to a big movie night where a bunch of people are and oh my God, I see the person I kissed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh my. Okay, Jordan, don't go over there. Let's come over here. And then you're like, now I'm lying. Like, I've gotten into this lying.

[B]

Maybe the only way in which I can see it being acceptable is let's say I'm early on in a relationship. Short term relationship. We haven't been together. We've been together for three months. I've been telling you not to worry about my co worker. I end up cheating on you with my co worker. I think there is a world in which you do not have to tell your girlfriend or whatever that you cheated, but I think it's your responsibility to break up with her.

[A]

What are you gonna. Oh, oh, that's world. I think when you break up, I think if you cheat and then you're plan to break up. I don't think I honestly, part of me is like, don't tell your partner.

[B]

Yeah. Because I think they're. I'm not saying whether do or don't tell your partner. I think it's such a. A thing that, that's like, you have.

[A]

To find out, but I wouldn't want to know.

[B]

I think there is a little bit of a thing where it's like, if you've been like, don't worry about this girl, don't worry about this girl. And then you cheat on her with me and you keep dating me, that's bad. If you. But I think if you cheat on me and then the next day you break up and then you're like, it's because I cheated with this girl. I think it adds this element of like, you feel kind of gaslit you're going to take that into your next relationship of being skeptical people. And then also, like, now there's this pressure of, like, well, should I just forgive you and we should stay in this relationship. I think maybe it's more ethically sound, or at least maybe this is what I would want done to me once again in a short term relationship. We've been dating for three months. You cheat on me with the person you told me not to worry about. I think the next day you come in and you say, hey, I'm really sorry. I do really like you, but I think we need to break up. I am just not committed in this relationship as much as I want to be or as much as you are or whatever. And, like.

[A]

Which is true. Which is true.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I actually changed my mind, though, about if you cheated on me, I would want to know.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because I'm realizing if, like, you came and broke up with me, I would be so confused and I would feel so, like.

[B]

But we're married.

[A]

No, I agree. But I fed him in to go. Like, if I wouldn't want to know if you cheated on me and I changed my mind because I would be like, So I would be so confused that I would feel like I would drive myself crazy. And then going into the next relationship, I would be like, I never feel like I can trust that a person actually likes me. But if you were like, I have to break up with you because I cheated and it's like killing me, I would be like, I understand. I can, like, wrap my head around this situation and just move on.

[B]

Okay, well, let's talk after the podcast. Just kidding. Okay, we have a personal question before we sign off for the day.

[A]

It's from my mistress.

[B]

It's from your mistress? Call me. Yeah, please. She says she's pregnant. This person says, in a past life, before my frontal lobe developed, I was in an on again, off again relationship with a toxic ex. He had a girlfriend from college that I was vaguely aware of but never met. All that I knew from him was that she hated me on principle and would talk shit on me frequently. Anyway, I'm not proud of this, but on winter break, he and I met up at his house, which of course ended up in both of us sobbing and then hooking up in an emotionally charged moment. Should I be burned at the stake?

[A]

Wait, I don't get it. I got lost in there.

[B]

Too many words.

[A]

Way too many words. Way too. Can we just read it one more time?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Maybe with a little more, like, character, voices or Something to make it clear what's going on.

[B]

I'll just edit it down for you so not everyone has to hear it again. So this person is like, when I was younger, before my frontal lobe developed, I was in an on again, off guard relationship. Toxic. He had a girlfriend during that time. During that time when they were on again, off again. Who knows what the status 325 girlfriend. This person is saying that they never met the girlfriend, but kind of, like, knew they existed. Okay. The girlfriend hated. Okay, listener.

[A]

On principle. Which made me laugh, I first thought was an app or something.

[B]

On principle. Yeah, it's like Goodreads. No, it's like, yeah, they hated you. They didn't hate you on principle. They hated you.

[A]

They were insecure. They were. You were cheating. Yeah.

[B]

Because you were cheating. Yeah. And listen, you're a listener, so we love you. But I have. It's funny to be like, they hated me on principle. It's like. Well, not on principle. Like, you would hate them too, and they would talk about you frequently. Yeah, I mean, like 100. Once again. Yeah, of course. Like, you would do the same if you were in their position. I think we would.

[A]

Like, we wouldn't. Like, we wouldn't. We, like, love, but we wouldn't do that.

[B]

But you're acting like. Well, they were talking bad about me and they hated me, but they had never even met me. It's like, well, of course they had met you because you were the other woman. You were being kept secretly. You know, I don't know what your gender is. I don't know if you're a woman or not, but I'm using that phrase as, like, terminology. You know, the other woman, they're not proud of this, but over winter break, they met up and they hooked up in an emotionally charged moment. And now they're saying, should I be burned at the stake?

[A]

Well, you shouldn't be burned at the stake. But you. You did bad. Like, you're. Because. And okay, I'm going to give it too hard. In the same way Jordan and I, we always say to each other, what do we say? We'll never let the other person embarrass themselves. Because we love you. Not to be parasocial, but because we love you, we have to give it to you straight. And you need to kind of like, grow up and go to therapy a little bit. You're embarrassing yourself because this is not like, as hot as you think it is. And I know. I know it feels hot.

[B]

And you're not going to admit to it. To yourself. So just take a moment and be. Breathe into this and just accept that. Like, it does. It does feel hot. And I get it.

[A]

It feels hot. It's actually not. Like, it's actually, it isn't. It's actually very embarrassing. And the reason it, it's not. Not hot because of you. It's not hot because you're dating. You're sleeping with a person who is kind of a loser.

[B]

That's loser behavior.

[A]

It's loser because he. And not because he's cheating. Not because we're like angels who are like, cheating is bad. And any man who does it is such a loser. It's a loser behavior because he's not emotionally intelligent and he like, can't. I feel, I feel like I hear so many stories about straight men in this way where they're kind of like, like even by the most feminist woman made out to be the biggest baby I've ever seen. Where it's like, well, he just like, is trying to figure it out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm like, okay, grow up. Like, he's trying to figure it out. Like, I don't really don't care. And it. So I think you're like dating a loser. And then also, like, you. If you were fully. If you were more emotionally intelligent, in my opinion. And I do love you so much. And I. Trust me, I have a lot of friends who are not emotionally intelligent. I'm dating someone who's not very emotionally intelligent. Just kidding. But if you were more emotionally intelligent, you would not be attracted to this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, this man is kind of like giving free for all in a way that is not hot or a grown up or adult at all.

[B]

And everyone come over and get some sloth. That's what it feels like.

[A]

Yes, Jordan, that's exactly what it. That's so good. And that is so true. And so I think, like, you need to reframe. And that's what I did a long time ago because I was in a lot of toxic stuff and I think I had to reframe. I'm like, it's not cool. Bad guy. You can date a bad guy. Like, like get a guy on a motorcycle with a leather jacket who smokes cigarettes that like, knows what he wants.

[B]

Yeah. Not a cheater.

[A]

That's an actual bad guy. Because I'm gonna tell you what, it's always. These people were like bad boys. They actually are the opposite because they're so scared of all the women in their life finding out the naughty thing they did. And they're trying to keep everyone happy. And they're pretending that it's because they're such a giving and empathetic man, but really, they're like a baby. They're like a baby.

[B]

Yeah. I also think that it. You're asking the question, but I do think you're framing it in a way where you're taking all the responsibility off yourself. And you're also making light of the bad thing you did. Like, you're being like, before my frontal lobe developed, and like, she's talking about.

[A]

Me, but your frontal lobes now developed, and you just did it again.

[B]

And you should know. And. And you're being like, she's talking about me on principle. Well, no, it's not on principle. You know why she's talking about you once again. And you would do the same, Andrew, being like, should I be burned at the stake?

[A]

Well, no, because you know what? That's giving. And this is just us being honest.

[B]

It's us being honest because we love you.

[A]

That's giving. When you tell someone they did something that hurt your feelings, and they're kind of like, oh, am I just ice because I'm a piece of. And you're like, well, that's. Or when you say to your parent, not my parent. My mom's perfect. If you're listening. But if you. I feel like people say this all the time. They tell their parent, you did this thing when I. You hurt my feelings.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, I guess I'm just the worst mom in the world.

[B]

That's what that's giving.

[A]

Should I be burned on the stake? No, you.

[B]

And you know that you should take.

[A]

Some responsibility and go sign up for a therapy session.

[B]

Yeah. No one's being like, you should go to jail.

[A]

Trust me. I love Tiger Woods.

[B]

We talked about in the last episode. I think even the girl, the girlfriend of this guy is not being like, you should go to jail. But I think that you are participating in cheating and kind of trying to demonize her a little bit.

[A]

You're centering men in this whole scenario.

[B]

Absolutely. And I think you need to stop hooking up with him. I would. If I were you, I would apologize to her personally. I would shoot her a message and be like, hey, I know you're not interested in speaking to me, and I completely get it. I just want to say I. I haven't handled the situation well, and I'm sorry, and I've put an end to it, and I wish you all the.

[A]

Best, because I will tell you at the core. And I. I seriously, I've seen this so many times. Like, at the core, you think that you don't like her being, and I don't know this specific scenario, but you think you don't like this woman that this man is dating because she's annoying, because she's rude, because she's so cringy.

[B]

Because she's not met him or whatever.

[A]

And you think your brain has made you think, I don't like this woman for logical reasons. Now, granted, she might be a total annoying, and you may be like, I wouldn't be friends with her, but you hate her because you are being misogynistic. You hate her because you have a crush on this guy and you are pitting yourself against this other woman who, first of all, I'm sure is acting crazy. You know why? Because she's dating a man who's making her think she's crazy while he goes and sleeps with you. That is like, what's happening.

[B]

You know, I think it has to.

[A]

Of course she's acting crazy.

[B]

Yeah, I think it has to be if you're going to take something away from this episode. First of all, stop. Because you deserve better, and she deserves better, and he doesn't deserve either one of you. That's what I think about that. Secondly, we know you have good in you because you listen to this podcast. You listen to a lot of good advice, like a lot of church.

[A]

We know you have good in you because you showed up today.

[B]

Well, kind of sat in the pews and you showed up kind of, because I know you know better. And you wrote in to get advice because you knew Kendall and I would give you the cold, hard truth. So I'm like, you know better. You can do better, and I really believe in you, and I love you, but just also take ownership of what you've done. Yeah, I. Even if you don't want to talk to her, be honest with yourself. I haven't handled this situation super well. What I did to her was not kind. What I did myself wasn't what. That's. I'm gonna start treating myself and other people respect. Better and with a little more respect. That's what I think.

[A]

Because I also, like. I don't have judgment, because I also know from experience your brain is so powerful, especially mine. Your brain is so powerful, and it can really convince you it's not. It can really convince you of things that are not true. It can really convince you. I've said this a million times, so I'm sorry to repeat myself, but it can convince you it's not that this person isn't perfect. It's just I don't have that spark with them. It's not that I. It's not that this girl. Like, I don't like this girl because she's rude. I don't like this girl because she's annoying. Like, I just don't like her. That's why I don't like her. Your brain can convince you of all of these things. And when you heal a little bit or when you're just a little hard on yourself and are like, be real. Like, the kindest thing you can do is be real with yourself and know that you have choice in all of this. Like, you can choose to not date a guy who's dating someone. You can choose to. And. And it is mean. Like, there are very few rights and wrongs in the world, so enjoy the ones that have been handed to you. Cheating is wrong. It's wrong. There you go. Stop doing it. You know, But I do have sympathy, because I know your brain can really make you think that, and mine does it all the time. But at the end of the day, you have to then lean into what you have choice in, and you simply don't need to hook up with this man. And no, you don't need to be burned at the stake, but you need kind of a wake up call for yourself. You're not. You're gonna be single when you're 40 if. Well, not. Okay, I shouldn't. Maybe you're already 40.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

You're gonna be single when you're dead.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, when.

[B]

When you grow.

[A]

I mean, that is what this is barreling towards. Because if you can only find attraction to someone who's taken, and you can only find attraction to someone who is gonna be a bad boyfriend or husband or whatever, you're. It's not gonna work out. And if that's what you want, pop off. But I have a feeling it's not.

[B]

Not. Yep. I 100 agree. Well, we've solved it. We've solved cheating.

[A]

We solved it. Can we open up a P.O. box present? Do we have time?

[B]

No. Well, hurry. Okay, I'll do it really fast.

[A]

I already open. I already, like, opened the package.

[B]

Did you look already?

[A]

No, I didn't. This. This is from our P.O. box. You guys send us amazing stuff all the time that we can put on our set. We didn't really put a ton up today because we were running behind.

[B]

We were running late. Okay.

[A]

The Computer Room by Emma Ensley.

[B]

Oh, this is one of My mutuals.

[A]

Oh, my God. That's amazing.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I love that I feel hyper reading the computer room. I'm alive to how intense that is and I love it. I'm obsessed, said Caroline Raynor, laughing my ass off and shedding a tear at this teenage fever dream. As someone else said, this is incredible. We can't wait to read.

[B]

Emma, thank you so much for sending your book. We absolutely love it.

[A]

I can't make sure there's nothing else.

[B]

Wait to read it. If you are concerned about your package having not got to us. Us, We're. We've been getting everything. Everyone's been sending. A bunch of the packages got put in storage when they were doing the construction on our house during the flood. So we're slowly but surely getting things out. So do not worry if we haven't opened your thing yet. We're making our way through everything and we're so excited to get to them and everything that everyone's done has been so, so wonderful so far. And go out and get Emma's book.

[A]

This is so cool. I love the COVID I know. It's also really so cute. We can't wait to read. Thank you so much. If you are watching on YouTube, make sure to, like, comment and subscribe. If you're listening anywhere you get your podcast, please make sure to rate and review us. It helps us out so much big time. And if you're just dying for some more content from us, which I'm sure you are, we also have a Patreon where we post extra episodes and we do a bunch of fun giveaways, chats, ad free episodes. Just a bunch of random stuff. We have a book club. It's a hoot over there.

[B]

Such a hoot.

[A]

And we have a blast. We have a real good group of people over there. We're always connecting and chatting and it's so fun. And so please make sure to check that out. It really helps us out and helps us fund this podcast ultimately.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Thank you so much for being here and we hope you have a really great rest of your drive to work. We hope that you have a wonderful fall day and that the air is crisp or whatever temperature you prefer. And we love you all.

[B]

All right, Happy Monday.

[A]

Bye.

[C]

Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion and this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements, or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.