Hard Fork – August 29, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode of Hard Fork, hosts Kevin Roose (The New York Times) and Casey Newton (Platformer) dive into three major stories shaping the tech landscape:

• The US government’s unprecedented acquisition of a 10% stake in Intel
• A wide-ranging interview with Waymo co-CEO Tekedra Mawakana on the driverless car company’s rapid growth, safety, and the challenges of scaling in new cities
• A round-up of the Trump family’s striking new involvement in the tech industry (including AI in schools, prediction markets, crypto, and a new Chief Design Officer for the federal government)

The tone is witty, skeptical, and deeply engaged, with the hosts unafraid to ask tough questions and offer playful banter.

I. The Partial Nationalization of Intel

Context & Background

• The Trump administration recently negotiated a deal where the US government takes a 10% ownership stake in Intel in exchange for $8.9 billion (funds already allocated under the CHIPS Act).
• This move follows rising concerns over US dependence on Taiwan’s TSMC for advanced semiconductor fabrication, and fears about a possible Chinese incursion disrupting global chip supply.

Key Discussion Points

Why Now?

• Intel is not in an existential crisis, but has struggled to keep up with competitors (notably missing out on mobile and AI chip advances).
• The deal aims to boost domestic chipmaking and reduce reliance on Taiwan (TSMC), a strategic risk given US–China tensions.

How Did the Deal Go Down?

• President Trump reportedly told Intel’s CEO, Lip Bhutan, to give the US a 10% stake:

  "Give the United States of America 10% of your company. And he looked at me and he said, I’ll do that. I said, I just made $11 billion." – President Trump [03:00]

• Days earlier, Trump had publicly urged Bhutan to resign due to ‘conflicts’ with China, giving it the feel of a “shakedown.” [03:29]

Historical Contrast

• Unlike the 2008 auto bailouts (e.g., GM), Intel is not in danger of collapse. Instead, it’s a move to entrench US tech dominance and foster a homegrown chip fabrication industry.

  "This is the Trump administration sort of taking a strategic investment and role here and possibly, possibly, sort of using some strong arm tactics to do that." – Kevin [03:50]

Chips Industry Dynamics

• Chips are strategically vital—AI, phones, national security. But few companies both design and manufacture chips; most depend on Asian fabs.
• TSMC dominates global advanced chipmaking:

  "Most of...the highest powered AI chips are made by TSMC in Taiwan. And that is an issue for the US because, among other reasons, Taiwan is next to China." – Kevin [07:13]

• US 'reshoring' efforts lag far behind. Starting a new fab is slow, expensive, and requires specialized expertise concentrated in Taiwan.

What’s the Plan with Intel?

• The intention is to make Intel “America’s national chipmaker,” jumpstarting its foundry business to serve other companies—potentially rivaling TSMC.

Is Cash the Real Problem?

• Debate: Will $8.9 billion fix Intel’s issues?

  "Intel’s problem is not access to cash...its problem for years now has been lack of execution." – Kevin [13:35]
  "If you are a potential customer...the hope seems to be, well, if the US government is going to stand behind them, you have more assurance that the company isn’t simply going to go bankrupt and leave you high and dry." – Casey [11:11]

• Government support makes Intel more attractive as a supplier—but innovation, not just capital, is key.

Precedent Concerns & Political Fallout

• Some fear government picking "winners" undermines innovation; others see it as necessary for national security.
• Conservative and liberal reactions are scrambled:
  • Rand Paul: "If socialism is government owning the means of production, wouldn’t government owning part of Intel be a step towards socialism?" [19:59]
  • Bernie Sanders supports it:

    "If microchip companies make a profit from the generous grants...the taxpayers...have a right to a reasonable return on that investment." [20:10]

Policy Humor

• Hosts riff about alternative approaches: American Chip Idol, government investment competitions—a nod to the surreal drama of the deal.

  "[A] national reality style competition for fledgling chip manufacturing startups, Chip Island." – Kevin [21:08]
  "I can’t say I love it." – Casey [21:50]

II. Interview: Waymo co-CEO Tekedra Mawakana on Scaling Driverless Cars

Expansion, Safety, and the City Gauntlet

Rollout and Early Success

• Waymo now operates in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Atlanta, and Austin.
• Rapid growth: aiming to scale from 250,000 to nearly a million paid rides/week within a year. Miami and D.C. are next. [26:39]

Technical and Cultural Barriers Overcome

• Early challenge: handling rain, snow, edge cases.

  "The machine has learned, and over time humans have been identifying edge cases and feeding those back...A few years ago when it would rain hard in San Francisco...we would pause service...We don’t do that anymore." – Tekedra [28:06]

• Next: expanding to snowy climates, freeways.

Safety Track Record & Research

• Waymo claims to be five times safer than a human driver based on a 71 million-mile data set. When factoring in blame (via insurance data), as much as ten times safer. [29:39]
• Hosts corroborate this with local anecdotes:

  "When I see a Waymo, I’m like leaping into the crosswalk. I have no doubt..." – Casey [31:05]

Social & Cultural Impacts

• Concerns Waymo is "too safe": Malcolm Gladwell’s take that people will just jump in front, clogging streets. Tekedra counters:

  "Let’s imagine a world where, yes, some number of humans are going to create congestion by believing these cars are part of a gamification opportunity, but for a lot of people it’s just going to make everything safer..." [31:49]

• Teen riders: parents in Phoenix can send unaccompanied kids, with the same policies and safeguards as adults. [33:23]

Profitability & Experience

• Current cars are expensive, sensor-laden Jaguars.

  "At some point, you’re going to want to turn a profit on these things...How are you thinking about the trade-offs...between getting to profitability and having this premium experience?" – Casey [34:13]

• Tekedra: Plans for tiers—luxury, family, small city vehicles—global roadmap. Profitability through scale and diversified offerings.

Supply Chain Challenges

• Sourcing vehicles from China’s Zeekr—hampered by tariffs (now at 250% on Chinese EVs). Mitigating via diversified partnerships and US-based tech integration. [36:29]

Labor, Protest, and Surveillance

• Union opposition (esp. New York) claims Waymo eliminates jobs and endangers emergency response.

  "There continue to be a host of people with driver jobs. And we didn’t take those jobs away...there are jobs that are being created and there are jobs that will go away..." – Tekedra [38:18]

• In June ICE protests, several Waymos destroyed. Allegations they facilitate surveillance; Tekedra stresses strict legal procedures and pushes back against overly broad law enforcement requests.

  "We need communities to be able to trust us...not just for safety...but it’s also, you know, trust us that you understand what we’re doing with what we’ve captured." – Tekedra [40:34]

Regulatory & Competitive Landscape

• Different from Uber/Lyft “blitzscaling”—AVs can’t hide, must secure approval:

  "Move fast, break things. Absolutely not...It’s more like, be super deliberate and deep engagement..." – Tekedra [42:09]

• On Tesla robo-taxi competition:

  "Our approach is a full sensor suite...there isn’t another company that’s been able to remove the driver and scale to where we are..." – Tekedra [44:21]

• No remote teleoperations: all autonomy is real (edge-case interventions provide only navigational cues, no remote driving). [45:15]

User Experience & Pricing

• Some complaints about long ETAs and high prices compared to Uber/Lyft.
• Tekedra: Sometimes bugs are to blame, but the product is deliberately premium—for now. Expect multi-tiered offerings as scale grows. [47:46]

  "[Waymo] has never once asked me about my politics at 4:30am on my way to the airport. I don’t know how you guys came up with that one, but it’s incredible." – Casey [49:31]
  "Maybe you should have a mode where it does ask you about your politics. Just for people who feel nostalgic." – Kevin [49:43]

III. Trumps in Tech: The Trump Family’s Growing Tech Profile

[Segment Begins: 52:05]

1. AI in Schools – The First Lady’s "National AI Challenge"

• Melania Trump releases a video announcing a nationwide K-12 AI competition with cash prizes and cloud credits.
• Hosts lampoon the vagueness:

  "A full minute and I still have no idea what she’s talking about." – Casey [53:54]
  "There will be a challenge, and they will be given prizes at the end of it for doing something. Something AI America." – Kevin [55:05]

• She touts her own use of AI for an audiobook using voice cloning.

2. Donald Trump Jr. and Prediction Markets

• Trump Jr. joins the advisory board of Polymarket (crypto-based prediction market), and his fund invests tens of millions. He's also on the board of competitor Kalshi.
• This move follows the Trump administration’s easing of regulatory scrutiny—a push to legalize US-based betting on world events.
• Commentary:

  "This is just a transparent bid to get Polymarket into the United States." – Casey [56:11]
  "One prediction I would feel very confident buying...is that prediction markets will be legalized in America during the Trump administration." – Kevin [57:19]

• They question the ethics of “president’s son seeking to profit” and whether politicization will degrade prediction markets’ usefulness.

3. Trump Media and Crypto.com – The "Make CRO Great Again" Initiative

• Trump Media buys $105M of CRO tokens, launches “Trump Media Group CRO Strategy Inc.,” and integrates CRO as a utility token for Truth Social’s “Gen Gems.”
• The deal’s complexity is mocked:

  "I feel like I had a stroke while I was listening to you describe that." – Casey [59:47]

• Kevin notes Eric Trump’s deep involvement in crypto:

  "None of it is how presidents have traditionally conducted business in the past." – Kevin [62:03] "George Washington did not own any crypto at all. That’s true. He was famously a no coiner." – Casey/Kevin [62:10]

4. Chief Design Officer of the United States

• Airbnb co-founder Joe Gebbia appointed as CDO to remake federal websites, aiming for “Apple Store” levels of ease of use.
• Hosts offer tongue-in-cheek warnings:

  "While government websites have many...flaws, the one thing they have not had historically is a cleaning fee. But now that you have the co-founder of Airbnb taking over, I’m nervous." – Casey [63:31] "We're vibe coding the government now." – Kevin [64:38]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• "Our culture is not a costume." – Kevin [01:05] (opening banter on slang cycles)
• "If socialism is government owning the means of production, wouldn’t the government owning part of Intel be a step towards socialism?" – Rand Paul [19:59]
• "More companies trying to make the road safer. That's a positive thing and we welcome that. Our approach is a full sensor suite." – Tekedra [44:21]
• "I feel like I had a stroke while I was listening to you describe that [Trump Media's crypto deal]." – Casey [59:47]
• "[Waymo] has never once asked me about my politics at 4:30am on my way to the airport..." – Casey [49:31]
• "George Washington did not own any crypto at all. That’s true. He was famously a no coiner." – Casey & Kevin [62:10]
• "We're vibe coding the government now." – Kevin [64:38]

Episode Timeline

• 00:33 – 01:23: Hosts’ banter on cycles of millennial/zoomer internet slang
• 01:25 – 23:00: Intel deal: context, motivations, market analysis, political debate
• 24:09 – 50:00: Interview: Tekedra Mawakana (Waymo) on scale, safety, labor, surveillance, and competition
• 52:05 – 64:53: Trumps in Tech: AI in schools, prediction markets, crypto, and federal website redesign

Conclusion

This episode is a fast-moving, richly detailed exploration of how political personalities, corporate maneuvering, and technological change are colliding in 2025. The Intel story shows industrial policy back with a twist, the Waymo segment captures both the tremendous advances and the new headaches of actual autonomy, and "Trumps in Tech" offers a satirical but real look at political family-business-tech entanglements. The hosts balance expertise with humor, and their skeptical but open-minded approach brings the news and its weirdness to life.