CLAUDIO SANCHEZ: Coheed & Cambria, 20 Years of Good Apollo, The Origin of The Amory Wars

Summary

HardLore Podcast: CLAUDIO SANCHEZ (Coheed & Cambria) – 20 Years of Good Apollo, The Origin of The Amory Wars
Date: November 26, 2025 | Hosts: Colin Young & Bo Lueders (Knotfest) | Guest: Claudio Sanchez

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Episode Overview

Theme:
A deep-dive, whirlwind oral history of Coheed & Cambria with frontman Claudio Sanchez, centered on the 20th anniversary of Good Apollo... but stretching through the band’s (and Claudio’s) entire evolution—from kitchen-floor songwriting to genre-defying success, and the sprawling conceptual universe of The Amory Wars. Recorded on the SS Neverender cruise in Cozumel, Mexico, the hosts blend lore, fan insight, and gear talk with Claudio’s candid reflections and the nuts-and-bolts of building a progressive rock empire.

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Key Topics & Discussion Segments

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1. Writing “Welcome Home” and Realizing Its Impact

[00:00]–[00:14]

• Claudio recounts writing “Welcome Home” at his parents’ house, sitting in his boxers with an acoustic guitar in the kitchen. He immediately felt the song was special.
  • "I’m in my boxers...creating this riff...I’m like, holy shit, this song is the shit. Like, I got—I have a feeling." – Claudio ([00:14])

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2. The Amory Wars & Autobiographical Origins

[01:43]–[03:25]

• The accidental decision to make “Claudio” the protagonist, parallels to Fresh Prince, and how personal experiences and even sci-fi/horror influences (Alien movies) drip through early songwriting.
  • “When I wrote Everything Evil, I threw my name in there, not realizing that...it’s a name, that has to be someone.” – Claudio ([02:33])
• The challenge of translating life experiences into “concept” before understanding how to structure them.

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3. Musical Upbringing and Formative Years

[03:32]–[08:00]

• Claudio’s exposure to diverse music through his parents—his dad’s eclectic taste (Sting, Hendrix, Latin, jazz) and mother’s love for ‘80s pop.
• Early musical identity, the influence of friends (Patrick), and the grassroots formation of bands.
• The failed first band audition with an older shredder, “Nameless,” leading Claudio to pick up the guitar out of spite after being called a “dreamer.”
  • “I was like, fuck that guy, yeah, I’ll play the guitar.” – Claudio ([10:13])
• The Rush “connection”—initial resentment, then eventual appreciation, seeing Coheed as similarly “odd” and trail-blazing.

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4. Punk, Hardcore, and Genre Fluidity

[11:54]–[14:19]

• Hosts probe Claudio’s affinity for punk/hardcore/extreme music; Claudio identifies as an “open” music fan, not bound to a single scene.
• “Scenes” weren’t clear to him until he fronted a band and experienced peer critiques; describes how ‘90s musical lines felt less rigid due to Lollapalooza-type eclecticism.
  • “The lines never felt as defined to me.” – Claudio ([13:11])
• Connections to local NY scenes and crossover with genres.

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5. From Shibuti to Coheed & Cambria: The Concept Emerges

[18:07]–[22:08]

• Shibuti was the seed for later songwriting identity—a “Hobbit” to Coheed’s “Lord of the Rings.”
• The pivotal trip to Paris in 1998, exposure to “alien” architecture and fonts:
  • Embryonic Amory Wars concept arose as a way to mask autobiography in fiction.
  • Coheed & Cambria originally inspired by personal relationships, later recentered as a story about family and heroism.

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6. Making of “Second Stage Turbine Blade”

[22:45]–[26:14]

• The debut LP was built from demos intended to get signed—stories are based in Claudio’s life (e.g., “second stage turbine blade” refers to his father’s blue-collar job).
• The hidden personal narrative: “My dad was a recovering heroin addict...the Dragonfly [artwork] reminded me of a syringe.” ([24:46])
• Claudio discusses wanting to avoid “broken home” sympathy narratives.

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7. Band Dynamics, Naming, and Album Construction

[27:01]–[33:47]

• The decision to use Coheed & Cambria after other options like "Leader One" and "Paris in Flames" didn’t feel right.
• Origin of the names “Coheed” (from a Paris sketch—Kobe Head; made masculine) and “Cambria” (after a person Claudio met).
• The creative process: guitar first, then melody, then lyrics; self-taught via four-track demos.
• On recurring musical motifs (e.g., the end piano in “Everything Evil”):
  • “Josh wrote that...[it’s] the theme...it has to reoccur.” – Claudio ([33:22])

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8. Amory Wars Narrative & Collaboration

[33:59]–[34:39]

• The band mostly leaves the narrative/concept to Claudio, with occasional input (e.g., "Shadow Lifters" from Travis).
• Claudio needed the conceptual mask to “express honestly.”

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9. Touring & Early Success

[35:14]–[39:02]

• The shock of diverse scenes uniting at Coheed shows; initial tours with Breaking Pangea and Thursday.
• The infamous “bad gear” tour story: using beginner equipment, Thursday generously shared their own gear.
• Tales of early gigs—playing with Bulldoze (NYHC) and witnessing violence/fight (“Knives were pulled.” [38:00]).

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10. Building the Discography: Creative Growth & Narrative Complexity

a. “In Keeping Secrets of Silent Earth: 3”

[44:06]–[47:48]

• Albums take on “numeric values” as esoteric references (e.g., “3” nodding to Star Wars’ “Episode IV” titling).
• Writing shifts from demo-collection to intentional album creation; focus on explosive, bridge-driven song structure.
  • “A big part of why songs were so long was...I was just not getting to the point.” – Claudio ([46:02])
• Mainstream recognition: #2 indie record in Rolling Stone.

b. Guest Appearances & Studio Anecdotes

[49:29]–[51:09]

• Dr. Know (Bad Brains) is the only feature on a Coheed album.
• Claudio recalls meeting Doc through local bar encounters and the accidental connection to hardcore history.

c. Life on the Road & Fanbase Evolution

[51:33]–[54:02]

• Long time in vans before upgrading to buses; gradual growth.
• Fanbase (“punk rock Deadheads”) evolves into a unique, supportive community.

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11. Gear Talk & Signature Instruments

[57:03]–[59:20]

• Claudio’s journey designing his “Jackhammer” signature guitar with Dunnable.
• Influence of classic guitars (SG, Explorer, E2) and the satisfaction of fans wanting the same gear.

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12. Approach to Songwriting: Lyric Meaning and Melodic Motifs

[62:21]–[63:40]

• Many lyrics are autobiographical or tied to family loss and anxieties, cloaked in fiction. Example: “The Light & the Glass” deals with the premature preparation for losing his father.
• Hosts admit rarely knowing what Claudio’s lyrics “mean”—something he acknowledges and embraces.

13. Heaviest and Most Extreme Influences

[70:10]–[70:56]

• Claudio’s formative favorites in heavy music: Suffocation’s “Effigy of the Forgotten” and Obituary’s “Cause of Death”:
  • “I had a brief moment...where Effigy of the Forgotten and Obituary’s Cause of Death were the things I would go to sleep to.” – Claudio ([70:41])

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14. Production Shifts & Conceptual Expansion

a. Good Apollo... and Major Label Era

[72:41]–[76:36]

• Major label budget brought new tools, strings by Carl Berg (who worked on Jeff Buckley’s “Grace”), and greater creative ambition.
• On writing “Welcome Home”: "I finish the song...and I’m like, holy shit, this song is the shit...My mother comes down, she’s like, what the fuck?" – Claudio ([75:04])
• On accomplishments: having “Welcome Home” in Fortnite ranks highly for Claudio as an avid gamer ([76:57]).

b. Storytelling Structure & Lyrical Devices

• “Dual chorus” technique explained as a way to fit suggestions of potential singles from labels while maintaining Coheed’s epic song forms ([81:31]–[82:32]).

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15. Band Transitions & Thematic Prequels

[84:01]–[88:15]

• No World For Tomorrow: Band turmoil, near-breakup, Taylor Hawkins drums, Nick Raskulinecz produces. The darkness of the period informs the related story of band and narrative “imploding.”
• Year of the Black Rainbow: A prequel concept to complete the saga; produced by Atticus Ross & Joe Barresi, ushering in synths/modulars and a “happy accident” approach to songwriting (first time Coheed self-produces on later albums).

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16. Father of Make Believe & Modern Coheed

[104:51]–[108:01]

• Some songs from the previous album’s pandemic-era writing carried over (e.g., “Goodbye Sunshine”).
• The band uses remote recording, incorporating members' contributions by trading files, with Claudio curating and assembling the pieces.
• The demoing process often provides much of the final feel due to its immediacy and honesty.

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17. Gear, Collecting, & Simple Pleasures

[115:11]–[119:33]

• Claudio is a synthesizer/gear collector (“gas”=gear acquisition syndrome).
• Favorite guitar pedal: the Big Muff (“I like to collect big muffs.” [117:13]), with connections to his high school music teacher.
• Collects key comic moments, vintage posters, “Crawl” memorabilia, and enjoys board and card games. Tales of lost valuables to Brooklyn porch pirates.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The concept allowed me to be as honest as I possibly can...Good Apollo is a nasty, awful record. Without the concept, I couldn’t be that nasty.” – Claudio ([98:08])
• On recurring musical ideas: “I remember being so excited...that has to reoccur.” – Claudio ([33:22])
• “We used to cover ‘She’ because of [the Misfits]...my first band, we were called Toxic Parents.” – Claudio ([128:06])
• On writing “Crowbar” breakdowns: “Are you writing that for people to beat ass? That’s ass beaten music.” – Host ([67:16])
• "I write. I write. I write." – Claudio, on how he relaxes on tour ([113:38])
• “You know, there was a time where Coheed fans were not as beautiful as they are...people were booing openers. And now it’s such a different audience.” – Claudio ([52:38])
• “My memory is terrible...the guys could be watching this like, ‘This guy is...’” ([85:10])
• “I don’t know how much detail I should get [about the Bulldoze show]...Knives were pulled.” ([38:00])

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Detailed Segments & Timestamps

• [00:00] – Writing “Welcome Home”
• [03:32] – Musical upbringing
• [10:13] – Learning guitar out of spite
• [13:11] – Scenes and genre lines blurring
• [17:17] – Paris trip inspires Amory Wars
• [22:45] – Second Stage Turbine Blade creation
• [33:22] – Recurring musical motifs (“theme” by Josh)
• [38:00] – Bulldoze show fight
• [44:06] – Album numbering and narrative
• [46:02] – Unwinding progressive tendencies
• [49:29] – Dr. Know feature
• [51:33] – Touring and “van years”
• [57:03] – Jackhammer guitar creation
• [62:21] – Lyric themes and autobiography
• [70:41] – Metal & death metal formative years
• [75:04] – “Welcome Home” story
• [76:57] – Fortnite accomplishment
• [81:31] – Dual chorus songwriting approach
• [88:15] – Album production, Atticus Ross involvement
• [104:51] – Father of Make Believe writing process
• [117:13] – Big Muff pedal obsession
• [120:01] – Comic book key moments
• [122:22] – Favorite Coheed riffs written (“cracked the Da Vinci code”)
• [125:42] – Top 4 extreme music records: Sex Pistols’ Nevermind the Bollocks, Misfits’ Legacy of Brutality, Suffocation’s Effigy of the Forgotten & Obituary’s Cause of Death, Bad Brains’ I Against I

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Closing Reflections

Claudio Sanchez’s path from genre-hopping high school bands to steering one of modern rock’s most ambitious and cult-followed acts is a patchwork of personal battles, sci-fi narratives, and anti-genre creative risk. The Amory Wars' origin is rooted in autobiography masked by fiction, where even chaos, addiction, and heartbreak are refracted through interplanetary wars and familial sagas. The band’s resilience—musically, emotionally, and artistically—is evident in Claudio’s openness about personal struggles, constant evolution, and the family-like “Deadhead” Coheed community.

Final thanks: Claudio’s humility—credit to collaborators, memories of lost gear, the warmth with which he regards his longtime manager Blaze—is mirrored in the hosts’ evident fandom and deep musical knowledge, making for an episode as immersive as it is informative.

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Listen for:

• Wild tour and fight stories
• Claudio’s gear collecting confessions and Big Muff origin
• A rare, plain-English synopsis of the Amory Wars
• Insider lore on album construction, riff-writing, and the philosophy guiding 25+ years of progressive music
• Open celebration of punk, hardcore, and death metal’s impact on a prog icon

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For new or old fans—required HardLore.

Transcript

[Host]

When you finish writing welcome Home is there. Do you have a moment as a band of just like. We've done it.

[Claudio Sanchez]

We did well, here, check this out. I wrote welcome Home and I was still living in my parents house at this time, so I wrote it.

[Host]

That'll get you out of there.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, I'm in the kitchen area. I'm in my boxers. I got an acoustic guitar and it's a small kitchen area. And I'm sitting on the floor and I'm creating this. That riff. And I finish the song and get the kind of melody and I'm like, holy shit, this song is the shit. Like, I got. I have a feeling. Yeah, yeah. My mother comes down, she's like, what the fuck? And she's like, ready to do laundry. And they're like, mom, listen, this guy's a. What is wrong with this kid?

[Host]

Hello, welcome. It's hard Lore time. How you doing, Bo?

[Co-host]

I'm doing great. Where are we?

[Host]

We are currently on the SS Never Ender in Cozumel, Mexico. And it's a big day.

[Claudio Sanchez]

It's a big day.

[Host]

Massive day. We've got an unbelievable guest on the show today.

[Claudio Sanchez]

This is.

[Host]

This is decades in the making for me. Very exciting. I've been a co heed guy for a long time. And it's our honor to be joined by vocalists and guitarist Claudio. Dear, Claudio O of Coheed and Cameron, thank you for being here.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Thanks for having me.

[Co-host]

Hell yeah.

[Host]

Unbelievable. Was it at all inspired by the Fresh Prince of Bel Air? Will Smith being called Will Smith, that the Amory wars protagonist is called Claudio.

[Claudio Sanchez]

What? Oh, because Will. Because Will is the main character. It's genius. It is genius.

[Co-host]

Explain.

[Host]

There's no Kramer in him. There's no Costanza. He's Will Smith.

[Claudio Sanchez]

No Harry Potter.

[Host]

So, Claudia, that's you doing all that shit, right?

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know, for me, I think it was an accident, right? So when I started writing Second stage, or again when I was writing second stage, was a kid, you know, so it wasn't like I'm like, I'm writing a record, you know. But at the time, I did have this idea that I was gonna take my life and I was gonna put it into a concept, but I didn't know entirely how to execute that, what the details of that were gonna be. I mean, some of those songs, I mean, like Delirium Trigger, for example, like, is almost a song about the alien movies, you know, you know, things like that. You know, like. But. You know what I mean? But like, But Like, I was like, you know, I didn't really understand what the translation of the things that I was experiencing my life would actually look like when it came time to the comics and, you know, when I wrote Everything Evil, I threw my name in there, not realizing that. Okay, that's such a. That's a name. That's a name. Like, who is that going to be? That has to be someone. I mean, it's so specific. And so then, you know, I wish I could have been like George Lucas and named the character Luke. You know what I mean? I mean, you think about it, right? Like, that's George Lucas punched himself in there, you know? But instead, I accidentally sing my name loud and clear, that song, so.

[Host]

And here we are. When did music begin for you?

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know, music has always been in my life because my dad. My dad is a huge music person. Like, just in terms of listening, as.

[Co-host]

A fan, we can both relate to that.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Like, dude, he listened to everything. I mean, he played music, played a little guitar, but not like Travis's father or Josh's dad like, that. You know, these were like music men that.

[Host]

Generational rippers.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. You know, like. Yeah, like, right. And like. But my dad played a little bit, but not. He wasn't gigging.

[Host]

Okay.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know, but he listened to music and all the time, what was playing, you know, we got Sting, Hendrix. He would listen to Latin music, but artists I don't even know, you know, Bella Fleck and the Fleck Tones, like, you know, jazz guys, like, you know, again, just things that were always in my.

[Host]

So you're sponging all this stuff?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, absolutely. So I never. So that's the thing is, like, I mean, as a kid, like, I would, like, latch on to certain acts, like certain artists, but for the most part, it was like. It was just like, I would take things from the stuff that was just playing Gotcha, you know, and. But yeah, he listened to so much stuff and still does. Like, he is an interesting cat. But then my mother on the other side, you know, she was listening to the 80s pop contemporary stuff. I was growing up to that. He wasn't listening. Sure. So I was.

[Host]

You know, it's all in the DNA.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

All of it.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Like, so what about the guitar? So the guitar starts. So in middle school, I. It's funny. This is. I. And if you guys know this, I'm so sorry that I'm being redundant, but this is kind of a long story. Right.

[Co-host]

So by all means.

[Claudio Sanchez]

So I get into middle school, and at this time, I'm Like, I'm starting to develop my own personality with music. And at that time, it's rock music. It's like, contemporary, like glam bands or Guns n Roses. Right. That's the stuff that's on the television that's, like, appealing to me, honestly. The first time was, like, I went fishing with a friend of mine, and his older brother was across the lake listening to Talk Dirty to me over and over again. Cool banger. Over and over again. And like, at that time, I didn't have a musical identity. I wasn't fishing for music of my own. I was just getting what was coming from myself.

[Host]

You were fishing for fish at that time, right?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Exactly.

[Host]

Music unintended.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, but so I. So that I go home, and now I'm like, discovering that era of music. Def Leppard, Guns N Roses, that sort of stuff. And so I get into middle school, and I'm wearing a Def Leppard Hysteria shirt. And my friend Patrick, who's still a friend of mine, he's actually on the boat. Beautiful. He's wearing a Cinderella backpatch. And so we became friends. Like, you know, the middle school was, you know, we met there. And so one day he asks me, he's like, hey, do you want to start a band? And I didn't play an instrument. He was gonna be the singer. Had a lot of charisma. So I say charisma. Like, that's what I was thinking in middle school. I don't think that works, this guy.

[Co-host]

You know what I mean?

[Host]

Of course I have to be in my charismatic from band no matter what.

[Claudio Sanchez]

But so we did. And I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna play the drums. It seems like the easiest thing.

[Host]

And they are the easiest.

[Claudio Sanchez]

100% drums. Yeah, yeah. No, right.

[Host]

Your life would be so much easier.

[Claudio Sanchez]

But I'm like, you know, but that's. That's just my thinking. I'm like, I can hit things, whatever. Like, I'm not thinking about the nuance of the instrument. I'm thinking, you know, what's the easiest thing and the fastest thing that I might be able to learn to participate in this thing that my friend wants to do? And so I say, the drums. I don't have drums. Like, I get a pair of drumsticks, I'm hitting a pillow. Literally. Like, that's what I'm doing. Like, probably every chop. Yeah.

[Host]

Getting those chops.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And so he. So we're like, okay, well, we're gonna try to find a guitar player. And so we fly to the Town looking for a guitar player.

[Co-host]

What town is this?

[Claudio Sanchez]

This is where he lived in Nyack, New York. So just outside the city, a commuter town, 30, 40 minutes.

[Host]

It's like a Don Draper where he lived.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I don't even know who Don Draper is.

[Host]

Mad Men.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, okay. My wife's watched that show. I don't. I don't. I'm.

[Host]

She'll know.

[Claudio Sanchez]

It's like a commuter town. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Just like where Don Draper lives.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, it's like. It's, like, nice. It's an art. Like, Nyack was pretty cool because it was, like, very artsy kind of community. But. But we fly to the town and we get a call. Guy comes over. Now we're.

[Co-host]

We're.

[Claudio Sanchez]

We don't have a rehearsal spot. We're in my friend's bedroom, which is tiny, and my man comes in with his amp, his pedal, like, small pedal board and guitar, and he rips. He shreds all over the place for that time. Well, he wasn't in middle school. I think he was just getting into high school. And he was like. He saw right through us.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know, like, he got in there, he started to play.

[Host]

You guys suck. Watch this.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Co-host]

Kind of.

[Host]

I'm out of here.

[Claudio Sanchez]

But he didn't say it like that to us directly. You know, he's just like. He's ripping. And I noticed this one thing on top of his amp, and it's Rush's Permanent Waves. And I don't know who Rush is, but I remember the. Maybe it's not Permanent Waves. It's the one with the 50s aesthetic of the woman in, like, a.

[Host]

So it's not 2112.

[Claudio Sanchez]

It's not. But I remember it like, I'm in the moment right now, looking down at the amplifier, you know, because this is a big moment for me. So anyway, I'm playing the fooling around, and this guy's ripping. And we're both so enthusiastic. Like, my friend Pat and I were like, this is the guy?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And so he's like, listen, if I'm gonna join your band, we have to play Rush covers. And I don't know who Rush is. Whoa. And I'm gonna beat the drummer, right? So I'm like, yeah, of course we can play brush covers. I have no idea who Rush is. And so. So anyway, I agree to this. He leaves. And that night, some random person calls my friend Patrick, telling him that Nameless, we'll call him Nameless, thinks we're nothing but a bunch of dreamers. Nothing Will happen for us. Forget it. He's not gonna join.

[Host]

Nameless, right? Yeah. He shall remain nameless.

[Claudio Sanchez]

So. So I go into. My dad had an acoustic that he bought for my brother, and I was like. I was like, fuck that guy. Yeah, I'll play the guitar.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And. And off. You know, And. And that was it. That. And. And it's funny because, like, you know, Rush, I was never. I never was a fan of them growing up. Because of this moment. Sure. You know, and then, funny enough, like, Coheed becomes who Coheed is. And that's the one man we get, you know, Get.

[Host]

So are. Do you. Do you. Because. Do you get into Rush real deep?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Well, you know, like, after a while, like, I. Because we got it so frequently that it was like, I need to, like, just break down the wall and listen.

[Host]

And I also know what not to do, kind of.

[Co-host]

Totally.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. But I also. I kind of appreciated Rush. I found some records that I liked of theirs, and I also feel this, like, connection of oddity with. Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Big time. You know, like.

[Co-host]

Oh, interesting.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know what I mean? Like, it's like. It's like. I get it. I get it. Because, you know, I think of, like, all they have accomplished and how, you know, I mean, they're. I mean, huge. I mean, right now they've. They're doing their thing, kind of coming back and, like, it's selling out and, like. But there's this, like, thing, like, you know, they remained on, at least from where I'm standing, on the outside of this rock thing that was happening in the 70s.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And yet they kind of. They just paved their own, stayed the course. Yeah. And so I aspire. That. I aspire to follow in that. With cohesion.

[Co-host]

So you're telling me that the first domino of drumming on a pillow to being on a ship is spite?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

[Co-host]

Pretty cool, man.

[Host]

Pretty cool. That something I've always wondered because there's so many things. So many things are happening in Kohed at once. I've wanted to talk to you about extreme music for so long because there's. I hear everything in Kohed. Is this something you like? Are you a big punk guy? Are you a hardcore guy? Are you a death metal guy in there?

[Claudio Sanchez]

I mean, I think I'm just a music guy.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Like, I definitely have my moments with punk music. I've definitely had moments with death metal. I just am open.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know, I find I walked in.

[Host]

Here and you were like, oh, into another shirt.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host]

And that means A lot to me. Anybody knowing what that is. Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And being from New York.

[Co-host]

New York.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Co-host]

I just want to make sure I was on the right side of the state line.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Being from where you're from, you're kind of. And especially at the time that you're talking about, you're kind of in a epicenter of the punk and metal and hardcore. Did you ever identify with any of those scenes as you were getting into music in your journey?

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know, I just. I didn't really know what scenes were until I became. Until I started playing in a band. Okay. And even then, you know, because I wasn't the front man, I wasn't focused on that. Like, you know, I was just there to play and get that, you know, that gratification from that. And then everything else really didn't matter. I wasn't really the identity of the band, if that makes any sense. And so, you know, that was it. I think it wasn't until the band before Coheed, where I actually became the person fronting it and started to get the ridicule for the way I sang, made me understand what scenes were, what the lines were. You know, I mean, I understood, as a fan, like, you know, what hardcore was, what punk was, what grunge was. I understood those sorts of things. But, like. But I also feel like the era that I grew up in, like, you know, when you think of, like, Lalapalooza and the collection of bands that would, like, play that sort of thing, it never. The lines never felt as divine as. As defined to me, if that makes any sense. Which we believe in.

[Host]

Yeah, we.

[Co-host]

We don't like rigid.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Rigidity.

[Co-host]

Right. That's not something that we're trying to even.

[Host]

Yeah. And I think those lines are more blurred than ever.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, absolutely. Look at this Cruise, right?

[Host]

How am I doing here? So that band. Are you talking about Beautiful Loser?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, yeah, that. That era of time. Yeah.

[Co-host]

What era of time is this?

[Claudio Sanchez]

This is the 90s. Okay. We're like, I'm still kind of in high school, probably 94, 95, you know.

[Co-host]

94 in New York is a good year.

[Host]

It's a good year. Right before Master Killer, etc. Good Time set it off.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

Does the boy. The voice, right? Does that just happen?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, it can't. It. It took a lot of time to become what it is. But, like, my initial, like, when it comes out, it's like that. It's high. But, you know, back then, it had no, like, structure or form. It was just, who were you doing? Who was I doing?

[Co-host]

Because interesting that you didn't know who Rush was.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right.

[Co-host]

Assuming you're singing Happy Birthday at parties, right. In your voice, you know, to be doing that voice. It's funny because that's another comparison I'm sure you get. Yeah. Where who are you doing? Is one of our questions.

[Host]

That's a recurring question, I think for me.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Michael Jackson.

[Host]

Fuck.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Not, but like, yeah, who I. That. I mean, that's like the singer that, you know, when I was a kid and Ed, it came on, you know, mtv, it was like, oh, this is. This is dangerous.

[Co-host]

You know what I mean?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Like, you know, they're knife fighting out there. Yeah, I know as my dad like laughs at that moment and he's like, that ain't that like it?

[Host]

You tell him Scorsese directed that and then there's nothing. Yeah, I did a bad video. Yeah, yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Come on, man. But yeah, that, that. There was also this band around, around the Nyack area. I think they were from Connecticut. They were called Pumpernickel.

[Host]

Okay.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And they. That, that the fellow that. That was in that band also had a side project called Junebug. And I would, I would get the tapes and I liked it a lot because he sang in an ultrally high voice. Oh, yeah. And then, then I discovered Josh's brother's band 3. When Josh actually played in him and Joey had like way more of a nuanced control to his voice, almost more in like a Stevie Wonder kind of thing. Oh, and that was a little like inspiring.

[Host]

Saw him play the other night.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Crazy.

[Co-host]

You ever hear Nitro, dude? The like glam band, hair metal band?

[Claudio Sanchez]

I, my, you know about my trip? My mother in law dated Michelangelo.

[Host]

No.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Do you know Michelangelo is the devil from Shock Em Dead?

[Host]

Oh, really?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Quad guitar guy who can just do.

[Co-host]

Ulta Ambidextrous, no problem.

[Host]

But you gotta get on quad, man.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

Two ain't enough.

[Co-host]

So Nitro had a singer. Small deviation from the conversation, but he could break glass, like on video. Oh, Night Train is the song that.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Was a dope band.

[Co-host]

Very sick.

[Claudio Sanchez]

But he also was the devil in shock and dead. You ever see that movie? Into horror movies.

[Host]

Oh, yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, so he's, he's the dude that Martin. When Martin goes to hell to like sell his soul, he's the dude doing that.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

That's unbelievable.

[Claudio Sanchez]

We used to watch that movie all the time, my friend Pat and I. And then when my wife told me that, she was like, she's like, you know, my mom went to the Dean, like, party at the Guitar Fact, you know? And she started talking to this guy Michelangelo. I was like, you mean the Devil from Shot from Dead? I was like, are you kidding me? Like, yeah, it's pretty wild.

[Host]

That's awesome. All right, so, Shibuti, let's talk about this. Do you consider this canon to, like, the Coheed universe and discography?

[Claudio Sanchez]

No, I definitely think of it as the roots, though, because, you know, when I was. This is, like, the beginning of me as, like, a songwriter, like, putting out more. More songs than, you know, then just, like, kind of writing the riff and, like, being a part of, like. I'm like.

[Host]

Intention. The intention.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And at the time, like, I'm still having this, like, struggle of, like, putting myself in the song. So I'm creating, like, these narratives to kind of put my story behind. I mean, not like, there's a lot of people listening to this thing. You know, we're playing youth centers and, like, small. Yeah, what is.

[Host]

What is touring like for you?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, in the Shibuti world, it's community centers. You know, pretty much. It's like, up and down the throughway between Woodstock, New York, and. And Nyack.

[Co-host]

Whoever has access to a van's van.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right.

[Co-host]

Kind of thing.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, totally.

[Co-host]

So not like the Hobbit to Lord of the Rings, but not totally dissimilar to the Hobbit, right?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, that's a good. Yeah, that's a good analogy. I like that.

[Host]

Hobbit.

[Co-host]

Hobbit. Got it.

[Host]

Coheed, Water, Rings, Shire, booty. So how does Coheed come to fruition, then?

[Claudio Sanchez]

So I took a trip to Paris in 1998 to visit a friend of mine who's doing a semester abroad or. Yeah, a whole year abroad. So I went there for about a year, and when I was there and I came out of the subway, and I noticed, like, the. The aesthetic of the architecture, the fonts. I'm like, oh, my God, this is like I'm on another planet. Because I've never been anywhere outside of New York. I mean, New Jersey was foreign. You know what I mean? So. That's where I started conceptualizing this idea of, like, all right, well, I've been writing these songs, and they're all sort of disconnected. Maybe I should create characters that I can like, put, you know, use as. You know, I can. I can take my life and motivate those characters as opposed to just being, like, you know, random. Like, we, like Shibuti, for example, had a song called no More Bunnies that was like, oh, If I remember correctly, it was like a war between this, like, bunny colony and, like, turtles. It was like, you know, something like that. It was like something like. So, like, it just didn't have. It didn't have, like, the identity.

[Host]

You could dig deeper and find, you know, like, World War I in there.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, right. Yeah, right.

[Host]

Right again.

[Co-host]

Lord of the Rings.

[Claudio Sanchez]

But for me, I was like, I'm gonna take, you know, I'm gonna do this thing, and it's gonna be, you know, it's. I'm gonna use my. My relationship with this person that I'm visiting as, like, the nucleus to this story and. And this landscape that I'm in that's so foreign to me. And I'm gonna use that as the basis for. To hide my life behind, you know, I'm gonna give characters, create characters that are gonna loosely be based after us. And initially, like, the idea of, like, Coheed and Cambria were the two of us, but, like. And there was a bag shop across the street called the Bag Online, and I took that. And that was the original Coheed comics. There was two of them. Was, like, the Bag Online adventures of Coheed and Cambria. But as I started writing the songs, and Time Consumer and June Song were the two songs that I wrote, like, out There in Paris. I started to, you know, I took them home, and I started to realize that, you know, a lot of this isn't about me and my love interest. It's really more of a story about family, like, sort of mimicking the things that, like, my dad was sort of going through. And I almost sort of saw them as the heroes, my parents. And, you know, I then become a different character in the story. So. So it was, you know, the. The concept was it was birthed in Europe, but it really kind of found its identity in at my home, Amory Drive.

[Host]

Wow.

[Co-host]

That is. So how old were you when you were in Paris? 98.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You said 98. So I was just out of high school about. So, like, 18.

[Co-host]

That's so ambitious.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Had you been a writer, like a actual, like, story writer in any form?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Not really, no. I just wrote songs. You know, I loved big scope stories, like, clearly, Star wars or anything like that, but I had never. I never. I was. I don't think I was ever really an aspiring, like, writer, like an author.

[Host]

These are just. These are just lyrics to you that become something else.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Very cool. So second stage, Turbine Blade.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right.

[Host]

Debut lp, Landmark Equal Vision Records. Founded by Ray Capo from Music Today. Another connection so many genres blended together, but so much of the DNA of Coheed is like, immediately there. Take me back to making this record.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Okay, so this record is a series of demos.

[Co-host]

Yep.

[Host]

Right. And the Delirium Trigger ep. Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

So those songs were. Those songs already existed. Nate played drums on them. Nate from Shibuti. So, yeah, delirium and 33 were already kind of living in the world. You know, I was writing a bunch of stuff, and as a band, we were putting things together initially. Again, it was. It was us doing a series of demos to try to get a deal with Equal Vision, of course.

[Host]

So you were working for a deal from Equal Vision?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, I mean, like, or. Or somebody pretty much. But I think at this time, they were like, you know, they wanted to hear material. We were putting it together, and when it was done, they were like, well, you got a record. And we were like, oh, that's how it works. I mean, we think we were so green, you know, but for me, like, I was, you know, I was becoming a lyricist. I was going to actually put together a real record. So a lot of, like, my life in there is very confusing, you know, because again, I'm trying to figure out how I'm gonna tell my story without, like, giving away too many details, you know. Second stage turbine blade is the thing that my dad worked on at a blue collar factory. And in Chromoloy, New York, he welded second stage turbine blades for airplanes. So my dad was a recovering heroin addict and at that time was still using, so, you know, the Dragonfly. When Bill Scoville sent me the Dragonfly as, like, a potential image, I was like, oh, that reminds me of a syringe. That is perfect.

[Host]

Wow.

[Claudio Sanchez]

For, you know, for. For this, you know, so never could.

[Co-host]

Have imagined that that dragonfly would get tattooed on.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right.

[Host]

Just 1 billion people.

[Co-host]

A billion people on the planet.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I know.

[Host]

With that symbolism in the back.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I know, right?

[Host]

Wow.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. So, like. So that's the thing is like, you know, you know, so I'm trying to tell my story. Like, like, like we were saying, my dad was a. Listened to a lot of music. You know, some people might call my mother an enabler because of his situation, but to me, they were very heroic. You know, they tried to keep this situation out of our lives as children. And, you know, so for me, it's like, I didn't want to put my story out there for people to judge.

[Host]

Sure.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know, I didn't want, like, oh, that.

[Host]

What's that plainly.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, Yeah. I didn't want like, oh, that guy came from a broken home. Because that's not the truth. I mean, yeah, it's got. I think there's a. There's definitely something broken there. But, like, you know, I. Being an adult now and a parent, I'm glad I did it the way I did because, you know, everyone's got their shit and things are hard. This being a parent isn't easy. And, like, you know, so for me, it's like, I never wanted to villainize them.

[Host]

Sure.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I didn't want that sort of sympathy to come my way, so. So that's why I sort of curated the things the way I did. And, you know, and made that record so confusing because, again, I was trying to get my legs as to, like, how do I.

[Host]

It's sci fi concept. But you're also talking about driving to New Jersey, right?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

So I would always try to wrap my. Like, what is this New Jersey in this story?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Is this real?

[Host]

Like, what's he talking about?

[Claudio Sanchez]

And it takes place. There is, like, moments of that. But, like, that New Jersey is like me going there to visit a friend, seeing a red door that had 666 on it. And also, like, you know, when Patrick Ewing busted his. Oh, that's 33. So 33 is Patrick Ewing breaking his Achilles tendon. You know, busting. So it's like things like that is like taking these things that might be completely random and, like, trying to find a way that meant something to me, you know, and, like, finding a way to paste that and paint that into a piece of.

[Host]

How collaborative is the writing for this record? I know the concept is coming from your brain, but, like, you have to explain it to Travis and Josh at the time. Do they. To this day, are they, like, just fucking do. Just tell us the lyrics. I don't care what they mean. Teach me what to sing.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Well, at that time, it was like such an infant idea. Like, they knew when. You know, because when we signed to Equal Vision, we were still Shebooty.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And they didn't like that name. And neither did we, honestly, because it leaned more towards like a funk band or something like that, you know, so. And I had made these shirts for coheeding. Cambria Coheating. Cambria was actually. When I wrote Time Consumer and June Song, I was really thinking about, like, what it would be like to do a side project. I mean, we didn't even have a band yet, but I was thinking about, like, what can I to do? How can I take programmed music? I had like a MC303 groove box. And I was like, how do I take this? And glue it to acoustic instrumentation? And. And that was the initial idea for Coheating. Like, that was the name. And then when the band got signed to Equal Vision, we started to, like. They didn't like the name, so we started picking other names. And one of them was Leader One. Right. Another was Paris in Flames.

[Host]

Okay.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And, like, none of them really gelled with me. And I had this shirt for this, like, kind of idea, this side project thing. It was like Co Eden Cambria with the silhouette of Optimus prime. And it was a bright yellow shirt and.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And, like, it was like a silk screen that I, like, just ironed on.

[Host]

And where did the names Coheed and Camera come from?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Okay, so Coheed, when I was in Paris. Sorry if I'm all over.

[Co-host]

No, no, no.

[Claudio Sanchez]

My memory is really bad. There's a lot of. We're gonna get it all jumping around like crazy.

[Host]

That's good.

[Claudio Sanchez]

So, Cohen, Coheed was so in Paris, when I was hanging out with my friend Nikki, we were. She was sketching. She would sketch these, like, little characters. And the character she had sketched was Kobe. Instead of the H, it was B. And, like, Kobe Head. I don't know. Is that. Was that a thing? What's a Kobe Head?

[Host]

A Kobe Bryant fan?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, no, no. It was like. It was like this little angelic character. But I loved the name. And. And, you know, for me, my. In my imagination, Coheed was like, space codename, you know?

[Host]

Like.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know, and, like, so I'm like, Kobe doesn't. Like, I adopted the name. I was like, if it just had, like. So it just needs this one letter to make it feel, like, masculine. Make it feel like, you know. Yeah, yeah, I love it. Right? Yeah, yeah, he's heating whatever, you know? And. And so that was Coheed. And then Cambria was a name. I was hanging out at a party in Woodstock, New York, and I met this girl named Cambria. And I loved. I loved her name. I was like. It was like the first time I had ever heard it, and it just always stuck with me.

[Host]

Does she know, do you think?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, yeah, I think so. And I was like, you know, when I started to piece together who these characters were going to be when I had Coheed, you know, I was thinking in that world of, like, you know, like, Stan Lee, I guess, somewhere in my back, you know, Peter Parker, you know, sharing, like, the alliteration. Yeah. And good shit. Yeah. And then I was like, that Cambria name just stuck. And I was like, co Eden Cambria. Those are the.

[Host]

It's original.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

So right away, album one, your right and left hands are doing just as much work as your voice.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right.

[Host]

What have you done, do you think, while writing, like, oh, man, I really fucked myself here.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yes.

[Host]

Now I have to do this forever.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Painted into one or two.

[Host]

Are there parts that you write or that Travis writes where you start writing vocals and you're like, this isn't just not happening, or do you find a solution?

[Claudio Sanchez]

I try to find a solution because I'm a guitar player first. Okay. And so when like, that becomes. That's the first thing. Usually instrumentation is what happens when before lyrics that will, like, writing something will inform a melody, and then the melody will then form the lyric. Of course, like, whatever idea I might be experiencing will help also influence that. But for the most part, it's instrumentation. And at that time, it was guitar. I didn't have anything else aside from that. Like 303.

[Host]

So are you just doing. Writing songs entirely and then figuring out vocals later?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Pretty much. But at the time, I also had a cassette for track. Okay, so that you could demo yourself. Yeah, and I would use that to. That actually be, I think was like this the thing that taught me how to write songs because, you know, I'd get to a part and maybe not be able to figure out how to get into the next thing. And so I'd have to sit there and try to punch it in because I didn't even have the pedal. I'd have to like, it was a Fostex X8X28H. I don't know if you guys are familiar with this, but it's like. But yeah, so I'd have to, like, you know, the punches were awful, but, like, they were enough for me to hear, of course, you know, but yeah, so that's so that. So I would do things like that. But I mean, I. I like I said I'm a guitar player first. Like, and I mean that just like, that was the instrument that I took on first. And. And I wanted to certify Kohed is.

[Host]

Certified guitar music, so.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right on.

[Host]

Yeah, it is what it is. So second. Second stage is your first album of 11. You still play songs from this record? I think any band with 11 records that is still playing debut record to fanfare means you did a pretty good damn job. I saw you at the Greek recently. Everything evil was in the set.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, random.

[Host]

The melody. That was the first time. The melody that happens in the end with the little piano that.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Recurs through.

[Host]

The entire Coheed discography. What does that melody mean to you? Where did it come from? Is there, like a lore aspect behind to. When it. When we're hearing it in specific songs?

[Claudio Sanchez]

It. You know, it's. Yes. I mean, it's always like a reoccurring thing, but, like, it's funny. We were in the studio and Josh and I. It was Josh and I. And he started playing it and I was like, that is the.

[Host]

Josh wrote that. Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

Good job.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, yeah. I was like, that is the theme. And so.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And so, like, I remember just being so excited and. And then it was like, that has to reoccur. And it does. You know, like, even, like, we played the broken last night, the guitar song. Like, broken guitar. So it was like, it's always there. It's. You know, it's one of our favorite things.

[Host]

Recurring stuff. I love the bolt thrower motif. Come on. It's just like the bolt thrower motif. So let's see. Is the rest of the band contributing creatively to the narrative ever?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Not really. I mean, every once in a while, like. Like last record, Travis threw out an idea. He just threw out the name Shadow Lifters. And I was like, yeah, I like that. I was like, that could be something.

[Co-host]

Like.

[Claudio Sanchez]

But, like, it was. Yeah, it was just like a word, you know, it's. It's tough. Like, the concept. When I brought the concept up back then, second stage, I mean, it was like, no one really thought this was.

[Host]

Going to be a thing inside the band.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, I mean, me, I. That's definitely something I wanted to do because I needed to do it. If I was going to express myself honestly in the songs, I'm going to need this disguise.

[Co-host]

Interesting.

[Host]

You know, so I've been a fan of the band for almost 25 years. Years. I rarely know what you're talking about.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

So I'm really excited to do this. To figure out what you're talking about. Honestly, it's really fun. This record brought so many walks of life together. Like, hardcore kids loved it. The emo kids loved it. Which lumped. Got you lumped into emo world.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Definitely.

[Host]

The pop punk people loved it. The prog heads start to notice what you're doing. Were you conscious of that at the time? Just seeing the different kind of walks of life that were starting to go to your shows?

[Claudio Sanchez]

No.

[Host]

Okay.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I mean. I mean, I want that for sure. I just. When we started going. When we actually started Touring, it was just such a shock to me that people were even coming that I didn't. I don't think I even recognized who.

[Co-host]

Who was who.

[Claudio Sanchez]

It was just like, oh, wow, you're gonna let us sleep at your house?

[Host]

That's crazy. First. First tour was with Thursday.

[Claudio Sanchez]

The first tour we ever did was with Breaking Pangea, Fred Mascherino's band.

[Host]

I know Pangea.

[Claudio Sanchez]

He played. He plays guitar in Taking Back Sunday. Oh, okay.

[Co-host]

Yeah, the singer. He can sing his ass off.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Yeah. And so he. So his first band break. I don't know if it's his first band, but they took us out. That was our first tour, you know, and that. That Thursday ended up taking us out.

[Host]

He told. Jeff told a story on stage last night about your gear being so bad.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

That tour that they just gave you all theirs to use.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Oh, to use.

[Co-host]

Do you remember what you brought. Brought out?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yes.

[Co-host]

It was.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I think I. It was like a solid state. Both Travis and I had these, like, matching Fender solid state, like cabs and heads, if I remember correctly. If this is the gear that they're talking about, maybe this gear is good to them now. I don't know. I don't know, but I think they're.

[Host]

Still Marshall guys, so.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Yeah, I. So, you know, that was. That I had this. I had this big muff that I had in high school that I used a bunch, and I started to bleed on it, like, I think in the Pangea run. And. And it was like. It was a nice, like, 70s era muff. I still have it. We cloned it not too long ago, but I put it aside because I was like, you know what? Like, I don't want this thing to get damaged because, you know, we're traveling in the van, whatever. So we ended up rocking, like, metal zones. Right? Metal zones are all right. They did not like the metal faithful at the end. They did not like the metal zone.

[Co-host]

That is Cannibal Corpse. All they.

[Host]

Yeah, straight up.

[Co-host]

There's a. There's a folklore urban legend that one of the first shows, if not the first show as Cohen Cambria was with Bulldoze from New York.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, yes, we did play with Bulldoze. We did.

[Host]

How'd that go?

[Claudio Sanchez]

There was a fight.

[Co-host]

Oh, you don't say.

[Host]

Yeah. During co. Hit or during Bulldoze.

[Claudio Sanchez]

It was. It was after the show, there was a situation that had, like, accidentally happened. Sure, sure. Knives were pulled.

[Co-host]

Oh, dear.

[Claudio Sanchez]

A fight was happening. And it was wild.

[Host]

Okay.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I mean, you know, it was scary. Josh got in the car and at the time didn't drive and, like, backed up into another car.

[Co-host]

Man.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I don't. I don't know how much detail I should get.

[Host]

Yeah, but the Coheed Bulldoze lore. Yeah, but they were cool.

[Claudio Sanchez]

They liked our man. And then, like, something went. Something went south.

[Host]

Sure, sure. Mike from Mike Shout out. Mike surely listening as well.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, no, he'll be psyched.

[Host]

He's awesome.

[Co-host]

Psyched.

[Host]

Touring on second stage after. After this Thursday stuff you're. You're writing for and Keeping Secrets of at the same time. Is that how that's working? Or do you stop and. Okay. Because it came out a year later.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yo. So we were touring four. Second stage and opening within the song in Keeping Secrets. Like, that stuff was already, like, on its way.

[Host]

Yeah, you're. You're opening with an eight minute unreleased song.

[Co-host]

Oh, yeah.

[Host]

You're crazy, man.

[Claudio Sanchez]

But it's good.

[Host]

Wow, that's awesome.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

In 2000. In 2002, you started working with Blaze as your manager.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yes.

[Host]

And he's still here to this day. He helped set this up. Thank you, Blaze. Thank you, Blaze. Tell me about your relationship with Blaze. I love Blaze.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Blaze is my. My brother, my buddy, my. So some. My wife might say he might be my daddy.

[Host]

Wow.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know, like. But no, I. I do. I love Blaze. He's a straight, honest. Like, that's what I liked about him when I first met Blaze, first off. Okay, So I have a wacky imagination.

[Host]

Right.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Okay.

[Host]

You and his name's Blaze.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right?

[Co-host]

Exactly.

[Claudio Sanchez]

So I hear. I hear Blaze. So anyway, back in high school or, like, and coming out of high school, like, you know, I got introduced at the drive in, right? Like, I think it was out of high school, in Casino. Out. A friend of mine gave it to me, and I didn't understand it when I first listened to it. And he's like, well, we got to go see it. So we went. We saw him in the city. I can't remember if it was Brownies, the Continental, or the Wayne Firehouse. I can't. It was like, one of those spots. And I was like, holy shit, this band looks like a bunch of me's on stage. You know what I mean? I'm like. And I. You know. You know what I mean? Like, you know, I get that stuff a lot sometimes from, like, you know, like, you know, fans that are like, you know, Puerto Rican, Spanish, whatever have you. And it's like. And. And I'm like. And I'm touched by it because, you know, I kind of had that Feeling when I saw at the drive in, you know, I was like. And I was like, oh, I get it now.

[Co-host]

You know, representation, like, not. It's a real thing.

[Host]

Your hair has evolved into like a symbol of power, not just for you, but your audience as well.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right.

[Host]

I've never seen Coheed without a big curly headed dude. Front row.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, right, right.

[Host]

And like that's, that's a beautiful thing. I read a review of no Way World for Tomorrow. There's a whole paragraph about your hair.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And it's not even about nothing to do with the world. That's sometimes a big problem. It's a living thing.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

But yeah, I loved it so much. I got so into the band because, you know, again. Yeah, you kind of see representation like you're saying I kind of finally see myself like, you know, in a performance, you know, and, and I was like. And so that band really holds a special place in, in my heart and.

[Host]

That register he's singing at.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Yep.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. And so like I said, I was like, I. I'm like, I'm looking, I'm looking at like what could possibly happen. And, and so I, I look at the record and I see navigator Blaze James and I'm like, oh, man, those guys are wacky. Who the is that dude? You know what I mean? And so I'm thinking, you know, I see the satellite dishes on the COVID and I'm like, this guy must live in an Airstream in the middle of New Mexico. Go like satellite dish, you know, beard, dusty. And then I met him and I was disappointed. No, he was not that nice guy.

[Co-host]

We hear all the time and, and ourselves have related to reading liner notes, reading the thank yous in albums and finding new bands to discover. You're telling me you met him because you saw on their record.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, so.

[Host]

So manifestation.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, but like I saw. But like, you know, at that time, you know, the band is like getting. There's like steam behind us and like now management is coming out of the woodwork, you know. And so we met a bunch of managers, all really nice. But you know, when Blaze hit me up, I was like, holy shit, it's Blaze.

[Co-host]

It's like at the drum.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, yeah, yeah. And then, and so when we met, he just, of everybody, he just felt like the, the most honest, cool. Not that no one was announced, but you know what I mean? Like this guy is going to tell.

[Host]

Me, you know, you know, a straight shooter and it's been 23 years. So. So you knew something before we move on to in keeping secrets. Totally. Do you ever. Like the first cruise you did? Second stage, all the way through.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Is that true? I believe so. My memory is terrible.

[Host]

Dusting up on that. Is there a moment where you're like, how the did I do? How did I.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right.

[Host]

How did this guy version of me write these songs?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, like me now write those. Yeah. Cuz there's a huge disconnect, like last night playing good Apollo 1. I'm like, damn, man. It's like, how many times am I going to say these nasty words? Like, how the hell am I? Like, I can't get down with this guy that wrote this.

[Host]

Well, luckily, he's a fictional guy.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Exactly. Wow, look at that escape. Yeah, well, that's the thing, right? Like, so. So at that time, not to jump around and we'll get back to the other. But like, I think of that, you know, at that time, that's when I start letting people know that this is all coming from a real place. Because that record is so much about heartbreak that it's like, hard to disguise it, like in the fiction. So it's like, okay, now I'm gonna have to show that there is a writer and his feelings are directly influencing the characters in the story.

[Host]

The writer.

[Claudio Sanchez]

That writer.

[Host]

That's right. Yeah, I got it. Wow. I'm familiar in keeping secrets Silent Earth 3. One of my favorite records of all time is the three titling. Titling. Are you doing a New Hope episode four type thing? Is that.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yes.

[Host]

Okay.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Every record has a. In that part of the Emory wars has a numeric value. Year of the Black Rainbow being years. Singular for one.

[Host]

Right.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Second stage. Second in keeping three silent or three and then the fours with the volumes. But yeah, it's like hiding the numeric value in the title.

[Co-host]

Are you storyboarding this whole thing?

[Host]

No.

[Claudio Sanchez]

No.

[Co-host]

You're going.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Like, that's. Sometimes when I go back and I try to put these things in, like, I realize there's a lot of holes because I'm writing again. It's the thing that's coming first is the thing I'm experiencing in the moment and that's informing the fiction. But like, you know, I'm just. I'm just taking my life and transforming it, you know, translating it into this thing. And sometimes I don't think about the things that happened before. And, you know, I mean, I have a broader idea. But then when I go back, like, for example, right now we're trying to. We're trying to adapt these things in novels, right? And like, really nuance like, get. Get more nuance out of the novelization.

[Host]

So you got to go back and add detail.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. And we're finding that there's like, oh, there's some things here that. How does this work? And like. Okay, well, let's go back and let's, like, figure out. Reread this.

[Host]

And I see why these Game of Thrones books take so long.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, yeah.

[Co-host]

Or in Star Wars. That's again, Star Wars. That makes total sense.

[Host]

They fuck shit up all the time. So in Keeping Secrets comes out one year after second stage. Unbelievable. Does your writing approach change even though the timeframe's kind of the same?

[Claudio Sanchez]

I think so, because now. Now we're actually writing a record.

[Host]

Yeah. You know, it's not just a collection of videos.

[Co-host]

Right.

[Host]

Something I noticed, and I've always noticed about Keeping Secrets, is how bridge forward it is.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Bridge forward. There's a lot of bridge.

[Host]

There's payoff. Every song has an explosion that you got to get to.

[Co-host]

So important.

[Host]

Do you ever start with those and then work around them, or is it all kind of sequential?

[Claudio Sanchez]

I think it's all sequence. Because at that time, a big part of why the songs were so long was not that I was consciously thinking progressive music. I was just not getting to the point.

[Host]

Okay. Or what I thought, I'm not there yet. I'm not there yet.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And that's why you have those songs, like Three Evils, where it's almost like two songs in one, you know? Right. Like, you get these songs that are like one song, then all of a sudden it changes into another song.

[Host]

Or you get the beautiful Pull the trigger on the Nightmare style.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right, Right.

[Host]

Every time. Every song ends with a memorable thing that you got to, like, earn your way to, which is what makes a constantly replayable album experience. So it's like what you unlocked there. It was crazy to me. Even then as a. As a tween, listening to this record every day and playing Knights of the Old Republic at the same time.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, right.

[Host]

And I didn't know about the sci fi.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

Element of it. Yeah. They just felt right together.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Host]

You figured something out here.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, that's so.

[Co-host]

Well. And it's good to know that it was intentional.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

That you were maybe not not saying, oh, they got to get to this, but you're saying, I haven't gotten.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Right. You're finding your point.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

Very cool resolution. Resolving all the melodies. Tell me about the response to the record and the growth at the time. Because it's got to be it.

[Claudio Sanchez]

It was. It Was well received. I think I was like number two out of five. Like Indie Records and Rolling Stones. That's what's up, you know. Never got that number. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, I think of the year, like there was like a. You know, I remember being really proud of that.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know, because it's like, oh, wow, this is like crazy that. You know you're on ebr, right?

[Co-host]

Yeah, Right, right. Rolling Stone is talking about it. It's crazy.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. You know, that record is very special to me because. Yeah, it was. It was like the first time we were like making a record. We were in a studio and that was the goal. And is it the same.

[Host]

Same two producers as Second Stage?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Well, so. So Second Stage. When we did Second Stage, we actually did it in a bedroom in New Jersey. The actual recording was done by a fellow by the name of Jason d'. Zuzio. He had a studio called Stained Glass Studios in New Jersey. And it was really just his bedroom in his parents house, but he had like a setup. And then when we went to mix it, we, you know, we asked our friends Mike and Chris out of Applehead in Woodstock, New York, and. But they were like, if we're going to mix it, we'd like to get the production credit. And they were doing us a favor. So we were like, okay. Well, I guess we didn't really have anybody producing.

[Host]

They weren't producing the songs themselves?

[Claudio Sanchez]

No, no, they.

[Host]

The way it sounded.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

Keeping secrets. Does that change in terms of their contributions?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, they're there. I mean, you know, in terms of contributions, it's like the songs were there. Okay. You know, the arrangements. You know, every once in a while somebody will give it an arrangement idea. But for the most part, like, the Things is a band. Yeah, the Things is a bit. Yeah. Sonic tonal sort of thing. But the Things is a band that's all code. That's the bad members, you know. You know, the one thing we didn't bring up, and this is being a hardcore thing, is that Dr. No played on the first.

[Host]

I know. And that's like the only feature on any Coheed record. Holy shit.

[Co-host]

Really? Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

He played on the first song. He played the solo.

[Co-host]

That's so cool.

[Host]

The only guy to ever guest on a Coheed record is Dr. No from Bad Rain. Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And song one. Why?

[Co-host]

Wow.

[Claudio Sanchez]

So. So here's. So, I'm sorry, I know. I just remembered this. I'm like, oh, shit. So back when I was in Djibouti, I would go up, I would take the bus up from New York, from my town, up the Thruway to go play in the band, you know, in, like, these. These, like, the bars. Like, the bar at the time is called Joyous Lake. And I remember this one moment in particular because I. I got there early and I. At the time, I was underage, but. But the bartenders knew who I was because of the band in town, and. And I. And I sit at the bar and. And I'm just like, you know, waiting. I have my guitar, and this fella's sitting next to me, and he's like. Like, he's like. And I think I had, like, a Deftone sticker at the time. Like, around the fur was like the. Like. And so, like. And my man was like, you like the Deftones? And I'm like, yeah, I like the Deftones. He's like. He's like, pioneered hardcore. I was like, oh. I was like. I was like, damn. I thought he was like, just kind of like this, like, wacky, like, townie guy.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know. But it turned out it was Doc, and he had worked up there, and he was good friends with Mike Birnbaum that. That operated the studio up there. So when we were doing mixing second stage, that was the thing that Mike had brought up. He was like, hey, you know, why don't we get Doc to play on. On this song? You know, we're like, oh, yeah, that would be fun.

[Co-host]

Are you.

[Host]

Are you a big quickness guy?

[Claudio Sanchez]

But. But I like quickness. I'm a big eye against eye guy. You know.

[Host]

We. We.

[Co-host]

We celebrate the catalog for sure.

[Host]

Yeah, but that's cool. Big quickness guy. Big Ian. This is unbelievable.

[Co-host]

When.

[Host]

Tell me about touring on and Keeping Secrets, how much does that evolve? Does it feel different?

[Claudio Sanchez]

I mean, now we're getting, you know, better amplifiers, but not. But it's not like the major. You know, things really change when Good Apollo happens. Because then, you know, in Keeping Secrets, we're still in a van.

[Co-host]

That's what I was gonna ask. Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. I don't think they. Honestly, when I say that, things really change. I mean, I think Good Apollo, we were still in a van. Like, it took us a long time to get to a bus. 4350. What's that?

[Host]

4350.

[Claudio Sanchez]

What's he. 4350.

[Host]

Ford E350. The Econoline.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, geez. Yeah, you see that? 15,000.

[Host]

We're all working with the same.

[Claudio Sanchez]

No bandwagon back, too.

[Co-host]

I don't think it was just a big jump from. From A van to a bus.

[Claudio Sanchez]

How about that? Yeah. Not much has. Not much changes. Like, it's. You know, we're in a van, you know, maybe. Maybe we're getting offered, like cooler slots.

[Co-host]

But you still staying at people's houses?

[Claudio Sanchez]

I think that's still kind of happening, you know.

[Host]

When does, like, the fandom happen? Yeah, like, the Coheed guy is a. Is a type of guy now and.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right.

[Host]

When does that happen?

[Claudio Sanchez]

I think that takes a while. Okay. Yeah. Because it gets. Because, you know, there's a time where Cohee fans were not as beautiful as they are. I do. I. Like, there was a time. I remember we had secret machines opening for us and people were like, booing them or the blood brothers and people. And like.

[Host]

Like their hearts are as beautiful, you know?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. We're like, what? And now it's like. It is such a different audience than it was. Like, it's. It's.

[Host]

The clown on the cruise is getting a standing ovation, you know. You know, it's unbelievable because there's.

[Co-host]

What are. What are other similar fandoms. Non derogatorily. You have Juggalos.

[Host]

Juggalos? Yeah. Like, they'll. They'll watch Hate breed and they'll.

[Claudio Sanchez]

They'll be putting Deadheads, you know.

[Host]

Yeah, there's.

[Claudio Sanchez]

There's stuff like that, you know, I like to think of this as like a punk rock. Dead. Grateful Dead.

[Host]

That's cool.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Okay.

[Host]

It's unbelievable, man. Your own jackhammer. No longer just a lyric. Pardon this interruption. You know, we hate to stop you from enjoying this incredible episode, but we gotta tell you about something.

[Co-host]

We really do.

[Claudio Sanchez]

What do we got?

[Host]

This episode is brought to you for the very first time by Dunnable Guitars.

[Co-host]

Oh my God.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Look at that bad boy.

[Host]

Dunnable Guitars are the guitars for heavy music. I've been using them exclusively Dunnable guitars and basses for almost three years now. Your favorite artists love them. They built the Jackhammer, Claudio's signature guitar.

[Co-host]

Wow.

[Host]

It's unbelievable.

[Co-host]

Not only do they have a dark Gibson sound in general, they also do a 25 and a half inch scale. And others because they do full customization. But for those of you who might play in a down tuning, other than, you know, a 440something down there, drop B like we play. This is exactly what you need. Especially if you want to play something kind of classic. A V, a Les Paul body type.

[Claudio Sanchez]

That's right.

[Co-host]

You got 25 and a half inches.

[Host]

And you can grab an affordable, stripped down Dunnable DE from the Factory right now on the site. Or you can build the guitar of your dreams in the Dunnable USA custom shop.

[Co-host]

Listen to that.

[Host]

This is. This is my favorite guitar ever. They made it just for me. I customize every aspect of it. I love it so much. Next year they're gonna do new artist collabs with people like Will Hutney, Mike from yob, John and Ethan from Primitive Man. So be on the lookout for that and use Code Hard lore to get 15% off Dunnable guitars until Christmas.

[Co-host]

Wow, 15% off. That adds up a guitar. Guitar.

[Host]

Sweetwater ain't giving you that. We love them so much, but they don't carry dunnable. And we so 15 off code hard lore. Check it out. Dunnable guitars. This episode is also brought to you by.

[Co-host]

Man. Oh, is it ever.

[Host]

You know what it is.

[Co-host]

Come on.

[Host]

We got to keep it clean. We got to keep it crispy. We were just on a cruise and it wasn't very stinky. So I have to imagine everyone.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Everybody on that cruise was scared head to flip flop. That's right.

[Host]

They were reviving crops all shipwide. They were going land ho because they saw all the.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Keep going. I believe they saw all the pubic.

[Host]

Hair left behind on shore that was trimmed off with Manscaped Lawnmower 5.0.

[Co-host]

I heard that.

[Host]

It's unbelievable. I don't believe.

[Co-host]

Tell me, Colin, if people use our code, what do they get?

[Host]

They get 15% off on free shipping site wide. This is not. I'm not laughing. This is not a serious.

[Co-host]

This is very serious. Look at my face.

[Host]

So whack the weeds, the nose hairs that you're now growing because you're getting old and you're starting to look like your father. You're starting to look just like your father. And you got to get his same nose hairs out of there. Okay.

[Claudio Sanchez]

It's crazy.

[Host]

Also the handyman. Trim on the go, trim in the car, trim in the shower.

[Co-host]

Yes. I use the beer trimmer. I use the body scrubber. It's like a silicone nice thing for the shower. I love the body wash. I love the crop reviver. Crop preserver.

[Host]

Love Manscape is always with.

[Co-host]

It's everywhere.

[Host]

And it will always be with you, whether you know it or not. Cuz if we're around you, you're going to smell something you're going to like. Code Hard Lore manscape. Bye. I can man my own jackhammer.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, you can? You can after if you can get one.

[Host]

22 years later, it's finally possible. Tell me about creating the jackhammer and evil instruments with My beloved Sasha Dunnable.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh. So I, you know, I've been wanting. I've been playing Explorers for so long and like had at some point that maybe like one day I'd get my own, but it just never happened, you know. And so I was on a flight to Florida to visit my in laws and I just started collaging it on an app in my phone called Union. It's basically like a, like a Photoshop layering kind of product.

[Host]

I use one called GoDaddy Studio. Check it out. Same.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Like, same thing. I'm gonna check it out.

[Host]

Check it out. That's what all our thumbnail formerly called Over.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, yeah, and that's what I did. I just like kind of bashed it together or collaged it together from, you know, using the elements of guitars that I've used in the past. Like when koib was first touring, I was using an SG and then eventually moved to the. To the. To the Explorer. And then I found an E2 in Cincinnati and Mike's music one time, like on Warped Tour, actually, it was like crushed between like an ampeg 8x12. Like just smashed.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And I was like, oh, wow, that's the coolest Explorer I've ever seen. And like. And I got. And so I took those three, you know, and just kind of bashed and together or collage them like. And. And I came up with that body type and you know, I sent it over to like my guitar tech at the time and I was like, hey, is this something you think you can like get me like some kind of prototype, you know, And. And he sent me something and worked for one song, but it was enough for me to be like, oh, wow, this thing can kind of come alive. And so I started to talk with. With Sasha about like, you know, making it real. Yeah. Like, how can we do this? And. And yeah. And here we are now.

[Co-host]

They can't keep them on the shelves.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, they. Yeah, we sold out of the first run and I just put in an order for another one and different colorways. Like. So we started with the.

[Host]

You got three, right?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, we did the walnut, which is very much mimics the E2. Yeah. And then we did a black and white. But now we're going to do. We're going to do those again. But we'll also, you know, we're going to do a pink one, which I'm really excited for. But yeah, we got a couple other colorways coming.

[Host]

Yeah. At the Greek show, you used all three.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I did, yeah.

[Host]

By the. You propagandized me. By the end, I was like, if I don't get this thing, something bad's going to happen.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Do you like your guitars heavier or lighter?

[Co-host]

I like them heavy.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. So the walnut is where you want to go. Because the walnuts is tosh.

[Host]

Yeah, I need a walnut jackhammer.

[Co-host]

That's not. I know I've seen pictures of you or videos with of. Of you using it before, but you pulled out that double neck sg.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yes.

[Co-host]

The white one. Yeah. It's a cool guitar.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. I mean, you know, when I wrote welcome Home, I clearly knew that, you know, the Led Zeppelin cashmere influence was in there. And so as an homage, I was.

[Co-host]

Like, yeah, yeah, that's.

[Claudio Sanchez]

That's the Dark. That's my.

[Co-host]

That is the Dark Horse Led Zeppelin single, I think. I think that's their. Yeah, dude, that is like their song more so than Stairway or anything.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right?

[Co-host]

But yeah, so that I could see that. That tying in there.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. So I was like, you know what, what. What better way to homage that than to like, you know, let me rip the guitar that Paige.

[Co-host]

Is that in any kind of crazy tuning like Cashmere?

[Claudio Sanchez]

No, no, it's all standard, you know.

[Host]

Standard across the board from. For the Cohe Discog.

[Claudio Sanchez]

No standard half step downs. All of good. Apollo 1 is half step down standards drop D's. Eight string guitars come out baritone. Eight strings on like Gravity's Union and like Bad Man Love Murder One Baritone guitar.

[Host]

As you're now you. And you write this songs. You tell your tech about them and you're like, hey man, sorry to do this. Really sorry, but we're adding one more.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, they don't mind.

[Host]

Okay, totally. So the production on In Keeping Secrets I really want to talk about because it's some of my. It's like I love the way it sounds. It's very. The drums are raw and natural.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right.

[Host]

And the guitar is like. There's. It's warm. It's again, very natural. It borderline sounds like a punk record. Sonically. It's very real.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right.

[Host]

Is this something you're happy with at the time?

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know, I just again, I think I was so in shock that we're doing this stuff that I left that in the hands of our producers. I mean, when I listen back to it, you know, I hear all that.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

But I also like, God damn, what would it sound like if, you know, if. If we really like. You know.

[Host]

I think it's the way it sounds is such a big part of the charm.

[Claudio Sanchez]

That's awesome that I Mean, I. That's. That's.

[Host]

It's like Evil Dead 1 and 2 is in keeping secrets to good Apollo.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right.

[Host]

You know, it's like a different thing. And then army of Darkness is coming right around the corner.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Those are my jams. You know, the first Coheed show we ever played was. We had Evil Dead 2 playing behind us.

[Co-host]

The first show ever.

[Claudio Sanchez]

First show ever was that, like, completely unrelated? Yeah, it was like, Stubbs. Some place in Kingston, I think it was called Stubbs. And they had a screen behind us, and I was like, oh, they have a screen by us. We were like, we should play Evil Dead behind us.

[Co-host]

Wow.

[Host]

I had no idea.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

Damn, I nailed that. I only have a couple more things. Okay, let's see. Can you. As. As again? I'm a big Kogi guy. I rarely know what the lyrics are about. Could you, in 60 seconds or less, summarize the plot synopsis of In Keeping Secrets?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Of In Keeping.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know, when I think about the actual record of In Keeping Secrets, and I probably can't, but I think it's. I think it's me, like, falling into who I am.

[Host]

Okay.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know, and, like, oh, I'm realizing that I am now this person in this band. How do I express myself? How do I do this? How do I really do this? With both a concept tag to it and my life needing to be expressed in these songs.

[Host]

And you've said many times, this is the first, like, complete record writing experience, start to finish. So that makes a lot of sense.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Like, when I think of the Light in the Glass, for example, like, Light in the Glass, like, Beautiful Song is about. So that song truly is about getting in a van, going out and getting a call that my dad is dead. Oh. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, the end is just. Your father's dead. He passed in his sleep. It's like, you know, it's just, like, these realizations that we are now leaving home. And at the time, we didn't have the connections we do now.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know, so it's like. And not that he was sick. It was just like, you know, the real. The realization of death, like, coming. And I was still kind of young, and so were they, but, like, you know, I just didn't want to be supported. Surprised by that idea. So I would write these songs that would get me prepared for it.

[Co-host]

Wow.

[Host]

I never would have put that together.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

Does that thematically play into the gap between that and 2113?

[Claudio Sanchez]

2113 is. You know, I don't really know what 2113 is, to be completely honest, like because of the Rush thing. And at this time I have the Progus thing.

[Host]

You're like, all right, fine.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And at this time I still haven't listened to Rush.

[Host]

Okay.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know, I'm still like avoiding it, but I'm like it. We're gonna. And we. You know, that was like the bonus track. So it never. It wasn't printed on the record at the time, I think as 21 3. I can't remember.

[Host]

Yeah. Did that just come. Did you title that or did. Yeah. Okay.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

Cuz it was 21 minutes and 13 seconds after the silence or something, right?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then. But we had to be like, you know, it's the consecutive number of 2112, right. So it's like, let's just, let's just lean into it and. And we did. And that. I think that song, like there was like most of it, but then we just sort of, sort of just trying to figure it out to get it. Like just squeeze it on the record somehow, you know.

[Host]

It's a crazy song.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh yeah. I'm glad you let that happen.

[Host]

Crazy. It's an adventure. Something I always wondered. The Crowing Breakdown.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Okay.

[Host]

You popped off with that one.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Which, which, which break.

[Host]

What's going on there? So that's when I'm like. There's a dark entity in this man's mind.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Guitar. But I'm not entirely sure I can like remember like how to.

[Host]

It's.

[Claudio Sanchez]

It's real. So let me see, let me see, let me see.

[Host]

Saying yeah, talk to me.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I'm just going to do it.

[Host]

Talk to me.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, see, I don't even remember. It's insane, right? So there's that. So it's like a diminished arpeggio and like.

[Host]

Oh yeah. You're insane.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right? So it's like. So when I. So here's the thing. It's like so this diminished arpeggio form. So I never really. I took a couple of guitar lessons but as a kid and when I took, when I took them up like, you know, they were like teaching me like songs and I didn't really want to learn songs. I wanted to know like more theory minded stuff.

[Co-host]

Oh really?

[Claudio Sanchez]

And not that, not that I could read, but I wanted to know scales because I was writing music. I didn't want to just like rip like Jimi Hendrix or stuff, you know. So. So my teacher, the first thing he gives me is a diminished arpeggio.

[Host]

So I gave you this incredible tool that.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Which but like. But what? I remember telling a friend.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I was told a friend of mine and they were like, that's the first thing they talk.

[Co-host]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know, but yeah, it's just. And then there's this open thing.

[Co-host]

Just the hammer on.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. So.

[Host]

Ah, Excellent. Outstanding. Got it.

[Co-host]

Live.

[Claudio Sanchez]

What?

[Host]

But like, what's the goal there? Because that's like.

[Co-host]

Are you writing that for people to beat ass?

[Host]

That's ass beaten music.

[Claudio Sanchez]

No. Well, maybe. I mean, I think for me is like, you know, the crowing is such a visual song to me. You know, it's like, it's. I'm thinking like, I hear that. You know, I. I think cinematically.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know, like, so it's. It's very much like the pictures that are being drawn. I mean, it's such a confusing song in terms of like, who. My identity, you know, when I think of like the crowing and like, you know, Dear Ambalina, the prize, you know, it's like this person coming to help me become a better. You know, my wife and I have been together for a very long time, you know, and like. And I've always wanted a connection to somebody that could make me, you know, complete. Like, make me, of course, you know, ground me. And so that's like, what that is, is like through all the chaos of this lifestyle that I'm now learning to live in, and I just wish there was somebody to help anchor me in the real.

[Host]

Here's a cool thing. I don't know if you saw. If you're a big Stranger Things guy.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, I can get down.

[Host]

So my friend's wedding went super viral recently because Joe Kerry from Stranger Things officiated it.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, I saw that.

[Host]

The groom, Matt, my very good friend, plays an event called Post Animal. Walked out to the crone.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Get out of town.

[Host]

So he's going to love.

[Co-host]

Yeah, he'll love that. Hi, Matt.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Cool. So sick.

[Host]

So as someone who has spin kicked someone's head off to Kohi, the. I've done it. I'm sorry. Castle Heights. Egh. It's me. The big mosh parts are kind of like scarcely thrown into this. The to the discography, tastefully, I feel like. And now I see. Like, that's not super intentional. They just. You feel it when you feel it.

[Co-host]

Right?

[Host]

But I see how excited Josh is every time he gets to ride the china, so I know they're in there deep down. Is. Is holding off on. On doing these kind of like mega hard parts like that intentional or is it just they come when they come.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, I think it's just kind of when they. They come when they come.

[Co-host]

You're serving the song.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Host]

Always.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I mean, that's. You know, again, like, when I think of a song like Crowing. Crowing is. Is very much like, is in that format of two songs in one, you know, And a lot of the stuff that. That's in between, like, moments like that are just enough to help me, you know, visualize the answer, you know, Like, I think of, like, the beginning, you know, Dan. Aunt. You know, it's like it's all questions but being posed, you know, until we get the big release, the resolve, the answer at the back end, of course.

[Host]

Big pit, right?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. There you go.

[Co-host]

What do you. What do you think is the. The heaviest music you're a fan of?

[Claudio Sanchez]

So the heaviest music that I'm a fan of, like, actively.

[Host]

You're like, yeah, I'm gonna put some suffocation on it.

[Co-host]

I did.

[Claudio Sanchez]

That's funny that you say suffocation. Effigy of the Forgotten is the one that I. That's hilarious that you just called that. So. No, so there was a. I had a brief moment in my. In my teenage years where Effigy of the Forgotten and Obituary's Cause of Death were the things that I would go to sleep to.

[Host]

Oh, you're sick.

[Co-host]

The Bash Brothers. Wow.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And. But, yeah, I knew it. But, yeah, that's, you know, so. So there. There are those, like, moments, and there was a moment where I was very.

[Host]

Like, you got some effigy in the crowing. I knew it.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Wow.

[Host]

God damn it. What was revisiting this record, like, for the. The second cruise, playing this whole thing, this one.

[Claudio Sanchez]

The Good Apollo.

[Host]

No. And Keeping Secrets, I guess. I guess we have. We haven't quite moved on. And Keeping Secrets on the last cruise.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You do.

[Host]

Did that start to finish? Wish I could have seen that one. Is that. Is this another time where you look back and you're like, damn, this is special.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, I do. I mean, I think all of them are. Because they are really these, like, capsules of the. My moment in time, you know, Good Apollo. Like, or. Excuse me, in keeping. It's like kind of the years I met my wife. She came out to the studio, she was, like, sleeping in the loft area while I was downstairs singing in the room and, like, you know, singing songs like the Crowing, you know, it's just like. It's very special, all of these records regard. Even as I say, you know, good Apollo, when I hear those you know, I didn't know how to process love at that time. You know what I mean? I was a idiot and I, you know, could have. I could have chosen my words better, but I was also like angry and mad and again, I didn't know how to process it. And that's why it made it what it is and you know, and. And helped inform a really cool part of the story. So every record is like so important and so special to me. Sometimes it's like. It is. It's great to go back and listen. Like, I don't listen to this stuff like all the time. Like the other day I listened to the Color before the sun and it just got me like in a way that I was like, wow. And then the other. And then another day I listened to Unhavenly Creatures and some of the songs on there, I was like, did I even write this? What the is this song?

[Host]

You know, before the sun is. Is the only non concept record, right?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

And dude, here, Mars, that's like one of the most beautiful love songs of the century.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Thanks, man.

[Host]

I met the woman it's about. That's unbelievable.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, wow.

[Host]

Unbelievable. Check it out. Great song. Good. Apollo Volume 1. Same production team, different engine, same engineers, same everything.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yep. Chris Bittner, Michael Burn Bound. Yep.

[Host]

Different result. Massive record. It's crystal clear. Drums are explosive, guitars are heavier. You got recurring melodies and parts like we talked about earlier. Tell me about crafting the. Your major label debut here.

[Claudio Sanchez]

So now there's more money. Like guitars are getting like delivered to, you know. I remember when we got like a tailor delivery and it was like boxes upon boxes. We were like, what the hell is this?

[Host]

You can do that?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, yeah, it was. It was different. Matt Penfield was involved. So we had Matt, you know, who to us, he was our A and R, you know, so he would come up.

[Host]

Interesting. I met him today too. First thing he said, great shirt.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, hell yeah. How about that?

[Host]

We got another one, Richie. They're out there.

[Claudio Sanchez]

But yeah, they were. They.

[Co-host]

He.

[Claudio Sanchez]

So it was just like, you know, now's a chance to really put, you know, in my mind. I'm always like trying to attain the thing that feels like really creative and wacky, like sergeant Pepper. So it's like, how do we get, you know, strings involved and play the Unplayable, right? And this one, what was really nice about this, I don't know if you guys know the. Carl Berg was the fella that arranged the strings on Good Apollo, who also had done Jeff Buckley's Grace.

[Host]

Oh, man, Yeah, the one and only.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. And he, he lived up in Woodstock, so so we got to knowing him and he would come and, and he subsequent records like after man. And anything we had done up there in Key Unhavenly Creatures, things that had been done up there, he just orchestrated. That's awesome. Wow. But yeah, he had done that. So yeah, so things like that get to become a reality for us, you know.

[Host]

And so you write when you finish writing welcome Home is there. Do you have a moment as a band of just like, we've done it.

[Claudio Sanchez]

We did well here, check this out. I wrote welcome Home and I was still living in my parents house at this time. So I wrote that'll get you out of there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we, we had this. So it was like my, my grandfather and I, we shared like the basement apartment of this house. And so I would, you know, I'd write me. I, I mean I'd lived there for a while. I mean I'm like 25 maybe at this time, you know, I'm old. I'm the guy that's like, you know. But I, I. People are like, wow, that guy's never gonna leave that house, you know. You know, but, but like. So anyway, I'm down there and it really made no sense. We were touring so much that I go and waste my money or something. So anyway, I'm in the kitchen area, I'm in my boxers, I got an acoustic guitar and it's a small kitchen area. It's a closet and I'm sitting on the floor and I'm creating that riff and I finish the song and get the kind of melody and I'm like, holy shit, this song is the shit. I have a feeling. My mother comes, comes down, she's like, what the. And she's like ready to do laundry. Listen, this guy's a. What is wrong with this kid who's not a kid, who's an adult now.

[Co-host]

Are you.

[Host]

But you did have that feeling.

[Co-host]

Are you playing the, the pinch harmonics on the acoustic. I probably will.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I probably was. But that's great, you know. But yeah, that was all on acoustic guitar, but as a band. Like when we got together and we started playing, playing it as a band and started arranging it as a band and thinking of strings and stuff like that. We were like, okay, this has got to be grand.

[Host]

Yeah, big time. And it was. And let me ask you out of all your accomplishments. 11 studio albums, three cruises, numerous awards. Number 69 in Guitar World's greatest guitar albums of all Time. Where does having this song in Fortnite rank in your list of personal accomplishments? It's got to be high.

[Claudio Sanchez]

It's high because Fortnite's the only game I twitch.

[Co-host]

Really? Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You're a streamer. I. I do not. I don't keep vods up, but I do do random twitch streams, drops.

[Co-host]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host]

We gotta squat up, man.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Oh, okay.

[Host]

Let's do it.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

That's the game after the Simpsons season, because it's brutal.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, is it really? I haven't even. I haven't had a chance to mess with anything. But. But, dude, like, first. Honestly, I mean, that's there. What would rank higher than that is to get the characters in it.

[Host]

Yeah. I need a Claudio skin.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I want to put the stone.

[Host]

Oh, the emerald. Yeah, yeah, we'll get those, too. I need to see that hair falling out of the. Falling out of the battle bus. The process of handing them a song has to be insane, because you can change the key and tempo of any instrument.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, you can. And, like, it's like that.

[Host]

You can mix it with any song.

[Co-host]

Yeah. It's crazy.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, that's pretty cool. I did not realize that. I just go in there.

[Host]

I'll show you. I got it. I purchased welcome Home with my V Buck. So I'll show you. Show you how to do it. Is this did good Apollo go platinum? Oh, yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I think it just.

[Host]

Yeah, that's what's up.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Wow.

[Host]

Congrats. Congrats.

[Claudio Sanchez]

That's crazy.

[Host]

This seemed like a beast to tackle and relearn to perform all at once. I feel like I saw brief moments as a musician. I saw moments of frustration on your face. Like, fuck, yeah. I couldn't hear a mistake because you're good. But are you hard on yourself while performing in general?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yes and no. Yes, I am. I am. Because I. I want it to be good. I want it. I don't want to ruin singing. The way I do is, like. It's scary sometimes because if I do it the wrong way, I could, like, blow my voice and I compromise.

[Host]

I'm talking right now.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Are you really?

[Host]

Oh, I'm compromised.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, I'm compromised. But you know what I mean, that is what you do.

[Host]

How do you maintain that? What do you. What are your tricks?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Body mapping.

[Host]

What the fuck is that?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Well, it's. Body mapping is just. It's a new thing I've learned in terms of, like, how you get the air in here, how you feel the air, how you. You know, how it gets out of your throat and Trying not to use your throat, you know, just allowing the air to pass.

[Host]

I see you doing all kind. You're. You're changing body positions.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, yeah. That's body mapping, I think. So, like, I. So I saw a doctor in Nashville just to kind of get some tips. And that's. That's the phrase that she used. And so I'll take it, like, because it's. When I think of that phrase, it reminds me, like, oh, I shouldn't be shooting. Like, I feel it now. Like, when it passes through here, it almost feels like it has to go over instead of through, if that makes any sense.

[Host]

I would like to think it does. And then I start singing and I'm like, I'm behind here, dude.

[Claudio Sanchez]

There's this thing she taught me with a water bottle and a straw, and you just like with about an eighth of the bottle being filled. And you have to make these sounds just. And just tones. They're just tones. Five tones. And you do it five times. And it's very simple. But while you do it, you kind of feel when you take your air in, you don't use your neck, you use here. You make sure your shoulders don't go up, right? You just. And then you allow the air to pass through and you're blowing bubbles into this thing, right? And you just allow the air to pass through. Through in a way that feels gentle. And. And I do that. And then I do my warm up that I've been doing for like 20 some odd years.

[Host]

How long is that?

[Claudio Sanchez]

How long is that? Fifteen minutes.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. So overall, it's about a. It's about a 20 to 25 minute warm up.

[Host]

Can I find this warm up somewhere or is this proprietary technology?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, you mean the warm up like that? The actual warmup that I do. It's just. I learned it from a fellow by the name of Ron Anderson. He passed away not too long ago, but I met him around the time of In Keeping Secrets, because, you know, now the band is like, yeah, touring for real. And I just went to him one time and he showed me like, he showed me like 45 minutes to an hour worth of stuff. But I found that the 15 minutes of it works for me.

[Host]

Okay, all right. I gotta move on from Jacob's vocal academy. He's not really.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Is that what it is?

[Host]

Failing me, man. It's just. It's this five minute warm up that, you know, I guess isn't enough. The Apollo 1 and 2 songs. Do you this. The like dual chorus is how they swap on those Are you just like, these are so sick. I gotta do them twice?

[Claudio Sanchez]

No.

[Host]

What happens there?

[Co-host]

So.

[Claudio Sanchez]

So when we were writing the record, Michael Burbaum suggested that this was potent. This song was potentially a single. And so it's Baron, right? So. But he's like, okay, so we got to chop it down. We got to get rid of all the fat. Now this is. We're talking about me.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Who's like eight minute track. I'm like, I need to get to my point, man. Like, you know, I need to go through all the. The portals.

[Co-host]

And.

[Claudio Sanchez]

So. But I. I get it. I'm not. We're now on a major label. And I'm like, but. And I started thinking. I'm like, well, Pink Floyd did it on the wall. They had reoccurring things and songs. That happened twice. Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

It was like. I was like, all right, we'll do that. But we're still gonna do this one.

[Host]

Yeah, that's.

[Claudio Sanchez]

We're gonna put it at the end. And. And. Yeah. And I. I tell you this, though. We kick ourselves in the ass for every. Really every time. Yeah.

[Co-host]

Like.

[Host]

Like, because you got to do both.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. And they're just. There's these little variations.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Host]

I saw a moment last night where Travis looked at Josh and was like, this one, Josh. Like, all right, so that makes sense. That's very cool. But great. Both choruses, great. So I get it. What changes for Coheed after this record? Like, just exponential growth. Platinum record. Maybe now it's platinum, but it was certainly gold at the time. I think, like, immediately. Right.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, here, check this out. Before. Before we get into that question, just so you know, in Everything Evil, the original bridge of Everything Evil is actually in the telling truth of that good apology.

[Host]

You chopped it and saved it.

[Claudio Sanchez]

The one that's Jesse Bad Boy, that is actually used to be where that weird part is where, you know the whole song and everything. Isn't it kind of like. Is it a.

[Host]

There's kind of a musical motif that goes back. That sounds like in Keeping Secrets, though.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, it does. It sounds like. It sounds like Blood Red Summer. It's definitely a musical. But that was pre Blood Red Summer. And it was originally the internal guts of Everything Evil. And I just. We were like, you know what? This other thing sounds really interesting. And it just kind of stayed there in the back of my mind. And when we did that song.

[Host]

That's really cool.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I'm gonna inject that.

[Host]

I love when that happens. You save those things and you go, I know. I'll have something.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yes, later.

[Host]

That's beautiful.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Sorry, I just wanted.

[Co-host]

Thought.

[Host]

Listen, I wouldn't have known to ask that, but. What changes for Kohid now? What's. What's next?

[Co-host]

Yeah, we're into buses now.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I think so. But that's the thing is I feel like we took so long to get into a bus. Like, I think we're in trailers now.

[Co-host]

Oh, okay.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, like, we're renting a trailer.

[Co-host]

Respectable, you know, but I could.

[Host]

You need merch. Room for merch boxes.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right? Like, you know, but. But that. That being said, what year is. Is good?

[Host]

Apollo 2005. We're 20 year anniversary.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Are we in a bus? I mean, I gotta say that we have to be, but it just took us so long, so I can't. I can't really. Like, I'm not entirely sure. Like, we might. This might be the transitional phase. It might.

[Co-host]

You mentioned Warp Tour earlier.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Like. Like world Warp Tour, so Warped Tour, 2007. Seven. We're in a. In a van. We're in a bus. Right. For sure. But 2004, I think we're still in a van. Bruno. We're in a trailer.

[Host]

Brutal.

[Claudio Sanchez]

The first one we did, I think, was 2003, and we only did a portion of it, and that was in a van. And then 2004, I think we did. Oh, yeah. And then we did it, I think, in a. In a trailer. On like a camper trailer.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, I see.

[Host]

Wow.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Like, we rented it from, like, RVs.com.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

But here's the thing is, to be completely honest, my memory is terrible for these dudes. You're doing great. I mean, I might be wrong. Like, the guys could be watching this be like, this guy is.

[Host]

No World for Tomorrow. This is good. Apollo Volume 2, which you'd never know from the packaging. Is that a label decision?

[Claudio Sanchez]

No World for Tomorrow.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, man. Like, you know, we have these moments where there's these inconsistent because, like, people are like, oh, that title. The first time we got so much flack for the other title being so long. Like.

[Host]

But it's sold. It was gold in a week.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

So. What do you mean?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, I don't know. It's a. It's so. It's like. So I'm like, I know what it. I know what no World for Tomorrow is. I know it's the continuation and it's Volume two. And so I'm like, all right, if that helps. But, yeah, I. I hate it. And it happens still to this day, like Vaxis 2 for example, there's another moment where, you know, it's like, well, let's let people know. And now we're in Father of Make Believe. And they're like, well, let's, you know. And this is me and Blaze talking. And, you know, sometimes I'm like. Like, come on.

[Host]

You know me.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Like, yeah. I'm like, so. But it happens and I know what it is. And one day I'll get all the masters back and I'm just gonna put it all out. There you go. You know. You know the.

[Host]

The full story.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Oh, cool.

[Host]

This is the first record without Josh on drums.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right.

[Host]

Chris Penny's in the band, but contractually can't play on it.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yep.

[Host]

So you got the late, great Taylor Hawkins on the kit for this album. How was working with him for that?

[Claudio Sanchez]

It was great because, you know, Taylor brought so much positivity to what we were doing. And honestly, he played more like Josh in a way.

[Host]

Chris is wild.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, yeah. And I think Chris, his identity being on Year of the Black Rainbow, I think is perfect.

[Host]

There's all the kind of.

[Co-host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

It's all over the.

[Claudio Sanchez]

But like, you know, we're coming out of, you know, no Worlds for Tomorrow is like, that's what that. That record title is about. You know, the band almost breaking up. You know, there's no world for tomorrow for Coheed and Cambria because, you know, it felt like pretty dismal. You know, guys were falling in to chemical dependencies like, couldn't complete obligations. It felt like everything was falling apart. And Travis and I being the friends that we were for, however, for so long, you know, we just picked up the pieces and made this happen. And, you know, with the help of Nick Raskalinox, he got Taylor involved. And Taylor just, you know, his energy was just so positive that it didn't feel, you know, the cloud that was hanging above us. It didn't. It wasn't looming as bad as it. As it would have been, say if we. We like. If we didn't have him, you know, and we didn't have even Nick as well. Nick's energy was. Was tremendous.

[Host]

What about. And Rick Rubin was part of this record.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, Rick. So Rick. Rick was a chairman at Columbia. So we went and we met with Rick to talk about making this record. So initially we. We were thinking of Tony Visconti to produce the record who had done like Bowie and Lizzie and T. Rex and all.

[Host]

Very fitting.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. And, and, and, and Rick had suggested Nick, you know, and we were like, okay. We weren't too familiar with him, but we met him, and, like, his just energy just felt really good. And. And, you know, and then when we found out that Chris couldn't be involved, he was like, well, you know, the Foo Fighters are doing a record. Maybe we can get Taylor involved or. And. And so it happened, and it was great. And he was just coming off of actually doing a Rush record, Nick. So he had, like, you know, so.

[Host]

There'S all that Rush back.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, yeah. Hear that Rush thing.

[Host]

Did Rick assist in production? Okay. Not at all. Get that credit, huh?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, he was just kind of there and, like, made a decision. And, you know, we experienced his house in Malibu and the ferocious flames of his fire. I remember that was a big thing that we all noticed was it felt very like. Like a possession was happening in that house because that shit was roaring like fire. Like a fireplace. Like a fireplace was just like. I was like, damn, that's possessed.

[Host]

Why?

[Co-host]

I don't know.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I know it's hot as hell in here already.

[Host]

Weird guy. The Running Free. Is this written for Transformers? Is that true?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. So I wrote a couple of songs with Sam Hollander and Dave Katz in New York City, you know, for potential placement.

[Host]

Right.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And Running Free was one, and the other was the road.

[Host]

Linkin Park. Got it, huh?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. I mean, you know, none of that stuff ever coming Kobe's way, but it's funny. But I did. I wrote the road in the dam for Nicolas Cage's Ghost Rider, and then I did it for. And I did Running Free for Transformers, and that's why the riff is the way it is. It's almost playing off of the shit.

[Co-host]

Yeah, totally.

[Host]

Was the Transformers franchise aware of the first Cody Cambria shirt that would lead to.

[Claudio Sanchez]

No, that's. God damn it.

[Host]

That should have brought that up.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Transformers.

[Host]

If you're watching, can we expect a Noble for Tomorrow cruise in 2027, possibly. That's what's up.

[Claudio Sanchez]

So, you know, here's the thing, man, is I got on this. I got on the ship and, you know, we did this three times, you know, and I was like. I got on and I was telling my wife. I was like, I don't know if I could do it again. Like, I don't like being. You know, we had a pretty heavy year this year touring and then, like, you know, having to learn the record and. And, yeah, I was just like. I was. I burnt. And. But I was standing at this window and I saw two people. I think I brought it up last night at the show. I saw two people embrace and they're like. And it reminded me of, like, I just. In my. The story I put in my mind was that they hadn't seen each other since the last one.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Oh.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know what I mean? And, like. Because it was like, you know, it was, like, really, like, intense. And I was like, man, I was like, we've really cultivated, like, such a cool community here. Like, if people are willing, if they want to do this, I'll provide this for happiness.

[Host]

Because there's also a cooler that is just that it's a crucial. Yeah, is it?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, unhavenly creatures we're sister Spider.

[Host]

Beautiful embrace Right. That's what's up. It's real now. The breakdown in the title track. Come on, man. You know what you're doing.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Which. Which one?

[Host]

I was. I was killing people at the box.

[Co-host]

Killing those two people hugging.

[Host]

Killing up no world for. Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host]

He's riding, he's hitting on the crash. What are you doing there? Like, what. What comes to mind where you think I'm gonna put this crazy mosh part in the middle of this record and that's that. That's it. What's the goal?

[Co-host]

Is that the suffocation came to you in a dream?

[Claudio Sanchez]

That one. You know, again, no World for Tomorrow is essentially like, you know, there's. The band is breaking apart. Okay. You know, so this is the world.

[Host]

Imploding around you when this part hits. Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And that happens in the story. Like.

[Host]

And don't do you shout out the crowing again. Before that.

[Claudio Sanchez]

That part, we potentially.

[Host]

Is that what you're saying?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I. Dude, I can't recall stuff unless I play it. I'm like, you. What are.

[Host]

You know what I'm talking about. Before the.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Before that.

[Host]

You all think you figured me. What's the part before that? As it's building up in the falling cusp of all broken. You know what I'm talking about.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, I know. I know.

[Co-host]

I.

[Claudio Sanchez]

But. But I can't. Unless I'm, like, playing the whole song. I'm like, I know exactly.

[Host]

The song is good. You should check it out. That's great. But this. This. This mosh part, this is a thing where somebody will be like, I haven't heard the new Cohen. And I'll be like, you need to stop what you're doing and put this part on, because you won't believe it, like, coming from a hardcore perspective.

[Co-host]

Right?

[Host]

So I just wonder if you know what you're inciting with. With these moments like this.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. You're talking about the. Oh, the guitar just happens to be on. Wait, you're talking like.

[Host]

Oh, yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

So this is drop D. Oh, this.

[Host]

Is drop D. Okay.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. But the breakdown and then how does that. Come on? Something like that. Right, Right.

[Host]

I'm smelling blood out there. Yeah, it's over.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I'm not even saying it right, but that I know.

[Co-host]

I.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yes, absolutely. Like, because it's a. Yeah.

[Host]

Are you just like, what's. You're just going with what's coming out, or is it a goal of, like, I need a big mosh part here?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Because this is. No. Yeah, it's definitely just like, what. What's gonna help me transition into the next part.

[Host]

You're crazy, man.

[Claudio Sanchez]

That's always. You know, I don't really. I feel like if we. If I thought like, that, I'd probably have more success.

[Host]

But it makes those moments stand out. The fact that there are so few of the, like, big, obvious mosh moments makes them all stand out, which is cool. Using them sparingly is like a weapon every time where in keeping secrets is very Bridge forward to me right now for tomorrow is very hook forward.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, yeah. I'm starting to become more concise. I'm starting to, like, answer my. You know, I always think of, like, songs. When I think of songs, I think of, like, verses as the co. As the questions and choruses as the. As the answers. Right. You're posing the question and the chorus answers the. And now it took me a very long time to understand that. And that's why so much of Coed's earlier songs are those two songs. And one, I'm just, like, continually, like, trying to figure out how to answer the question. Now I'm starting to understand it a little more. I'm starting. You're starting to get more feathers and more running freeze and like. And things like that. Roads in the damned. You know, I'm just getting there quicker, you know, Is that I'm evolving, I guess.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Is that an intentional thing? Like, are you.

[Host]

Or natural just as.

[Co-host]

Yeah. Or is it just happening?

[Claudio Sanchez]

I think it's just happening because at the same time, like, I. I'm also noticing it's happening and I. And I realize, like. Oh, I also don't want to abandon things like Dan. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Dan. What's that song called? I don't remember. You know, the one that's, like, all that.

[Host]

Oh, back to standard.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right. That one that's.

[Host]

That's deeper in the record.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Yeah. So there's that's a one of those longer.

[Host]

That's a Chromax riff. Oh, yeah.

[Co-host]

Don't Tread on Me right there.

[Host]

Exactly. Year of the Black Rainbow. This is the longest gap in records yet. Thematically, it's a prequel story to the rest of the catalog. What brings upon that decision? Do you feel like the story's done, or do you feel like you need to explore the beginning before you can keep going?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. So at that time, like, I'd always. Initially, in my mind, the Coheed story was only gonna be three parts. It was gonna end within Keeping Secrets. And I found that, like, when I started to translate that into a story, it didn't conclude the overall saga, you know? And so that's why I broke the next two records into two volumes. Because I was like, I didn't want to find myself in that world again. Of, like, oh, I'm gonna say this is the end and I'm not gonna get there. So I broke it into two to, like, get me up the mountain and then take me down, you know? That being said, when I always thought of it being a three part, I knew I'd go back to tell the story of Coheed and Cambria. Cause, like, when you think about the conceptual part of it in Second Stage, you don't really see much of Coheed in Cambria. Like, they're kind of villainized. See, it's funny. It's like, in the music, I didn't want to villainize my parents. But in the story, the concept.

[Host]

But in real time, your experience, you're writing what your experience is, right?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. And, like, so in the story, they do, and they kind of become these villains, and then they end up, like, destroying a portion of Heaven's fence, and they become, like, the terrorists of the Amory Wars. So I wanted to give them a heroic tale. And you're the Black Rainbow that.

[Co-host]

Are you finding this, aside from being a device for you to kind of share feelings that you might have or kind of tell a story, you know? Are you finding it cathartic to get this out?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, hell yeah. I mean, that's what. That's the thing is, like, to be able to. The music really, the concept has allowed me to really be as honest as I possibly can. Like, we're talking about Good Apollo. I mean, it's a nasty, awful record. Like, if I didn't have the concept, I couldn't be that nasty.

[Host]

I would never know. You look at the people singing along to it, dancing smiles on their faces for an hour and 15 minutes. It's insane. You never know that.

[Co-host]

We were watching them last night and people were out of their mind. Biggest beaming smiles. Wow.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And my father in law is on the ship right now and he's like, he's like, man, you know, everybody really like that theme about tonight is just killing.

[Host]

That's unbelievable. So Year of the Black Rainbow. This leaked early.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, it did?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know.

[Host]

How did you run the Cohen Cambria Twitter In 2010, Blaze Mayhem blazed.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

So that means I had a conversation with Blaze in the. The Kohi DMs in 2010. Were I informed.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, no way. Does he know that.

[Host]

That the record had leaked? I don't think so. I don't think he knows that was me.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, that's rad.

[Host]

But you know, records leaking early in those days.

[Claudio Sanchez]

In those days. Yeah, it sucked.

[Co-host]

It sucked.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, but it.

[Host]

But it also is like nice to know that people care about your music so much that they'll scour the depths of the Internet to find it. Whereas now nothing leaks because nobody gives a. And streaming has made people like, okay, this came out this last week. It doesn't exist anymore.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right.

[Host]

I'm on to the next thing.

[Co-host]

Or if it does leak, it's manufactured.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Because of the buzz how.

[Host]

How much this is album technically album five. Right. I get confused because.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, right.

[Host]

What's changed for you now? Chris is on drums. The band's come a long way. It's a completely different entity. This record is way more melodic front to back, I would say. What's changed by now?

[Claudio Sanchez]

So at this point on year the Good Apollo no World for Tomorrow. I purchased my first mini Moog. Like a Moog Voyager. And I'd always been into synthesis. But you know, purchasing that and understanding the signal flow of that machine made it way more interesting to me.

[Host]

There's a lot of keys.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, it made it so much more interesting. And not like just like I turn it on and kind of have to get into a preset. Although the Minimoog Voyagers do have presets. Just the way to create sound is way. There's way more of a connection because.

[Co-host]

You'Re patching those sounds.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Well, not with the. Not with a Voyager because like it's. It's basically, it's. It's like just a mini Moog, but it's. You know, the thing is, is you have to kind of understand where the signal is flowing. It's not. It's not like a modular synthesizer. There are some modular inputs on the top of it. But okay, it's still standalone, but it got me so interested in it that I wanted to move into the next phase, which is modular. And that's where we get into working with Atticus Ross and Nine Inch Nails and Joe Barisi of, of, you know, working with like Queens of Stone Age and, and, and so they partnered up on this record which really makes that record so special, so different.

[Host]

It's awesome.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I, I, I, to this day it is one of my favorite production artist experiences I've ever had because it just like they really brought a creative.

[Host]

They, they dynamic change.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, absolutely. It's not like, you know, we're just trying to get good sounds. We're trying to be inspired by these sounds and like, and, and by guys who pioneered these.

[Co-host]

Yeah. Guys who are not just guys, they are.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Name dude. And like the idea of like just getting like allowing the chance moments, the happy accidents to inform things, you know, got me like remembering being a kid sitting at a four track and like accidents happening and being so excited about those things. Like you can't, you know, with a four track cassette player. It's like, you know, that's it. You, if you, you're not, you can't like, you can't record. It's not like Pro Tools where you can like layer sounds across your track or, or you know, just cut it and move it over. It's like it's there. If you'd want it, now's the time to take it if you don't. And so it reminded me of that, you know, and I love it.

[Host]

Beautiful. After this, the next four or five records are noted as produced by Cohen Cambrian for the first time.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Is that true?

[Host]

I think so.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Afterman. Oh yeah. After man, definitely the last two are produced by Claudia.

[Host]

That's what's up.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I moved up in the world.

[Host]

Yeah. Good for you.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I think it had a lot more to do with the fact that we were, you know, because of the pandemic, we were remote recording and so, but, but yeah.

[Host]

So produced by Kohen and Cambria. What, what brings upon that decision to.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Just do it yourself, you know. Well, after. Was it after man? Oh yeah, it must be after man. That comes after. So we ended up going back to the studio up in Woodstock and we just, you know, we've been doing this for so long and most of the time, you know, the music never changes. Like the actual songs. We're never really given that kind of input. And that's, I think, the thing I've always been like, kind of looking for. And that's why I think you want that. Yeah. I mean, because I. I know what I. I've been doing it so long. That's why I enjoyed working, working with Atticus and, and, And Joe is because they would, you know, in their way, kind of song. Yeah.

[Host]

Have you explored working with them again?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Well, I mean, I think because of this, I.

[Host]

It.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yes. But also I think that was like, kind of just like this one time. We're lucky.

[Host]

Perfect storm.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

So.

[Claudio Sanchez]

So for me, it's like I. I just want to find, you know, I want to be inspired. Like, I mean, I'm inspired every day and I. I'd love. I'm starting to get older at this time in the record making and I. I want somebody to bring something to the table and so. But, you know, it hasn't happened. So I was like, let us be the. At the helm of this thing, you know, and so you're doing it either way.

[Host]

Yeah, you are. You've been producing the whole time, right?

[Co-host]

Of course.

[Host]

Very cool. I know that we can't keep you here all day, so I want to. I want to make sure we talk about.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Okay. I don't know what. I mean, what. I'm fine.

[Host]

Let's talk Father make believe.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Okay.

[Host]

Because God damn, what a record. Congrats.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Congrats.

[Host]

It's full of like return to form coheed moments. If that makes sense.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right on.

[Host]

Like, if there's. There's. What's my favorite song from it? One Last Miracle.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, wow.

[Host]

That gives me like second stage vibes.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, very sick.

[Host]

It all feels very intentional. There's a lot of like sub 5 minute tracks, which is rare.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right.

[Host]

You know, how did this process begin? And. And it being produced by you.

[Claudio Sanchez]

So some of these songs were actually written in the time of. Of Window of the Waking Mind, so through the pandemic. So songs like Goodbye Sunshine could have been on Window of the Waking Mind.

[Host]

First single or second?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, that's a good question. No, someone who, who can, I think might have been the first single. But. But yeah, so it. So this is coming out of Window of the Waking Mind. You know, this is remote recording. So one of the things I'd always loved about writing music is the demoing process, you know, and that's the one thing I found. Found kind of gets lost when we go into the studio and we try to recreate these things.

[Host]

Demoitis.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. And I. Well, the thing is, is I'm also like, I'm writing it and recording. Recording it, and so I'm not really Capturing this, the inception of the song. I mean, I am in the demoing stage, but then I'm like trying to compete with that and there's like an honesty and there's something about that that just doesn't get.

[Host]

It's magical.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. And so Window of the Waking Mind allowed us to like, tribute that because we had to write remotely. And so some of those songs spilled into Father and make Belief and. And I just loved Window or Window the Waking Mind so much that I was like, I just want to do that again.

[Host]

Let me.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Let me at least do this one more time.

[Host]

Okay.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And then. Because, you know, we already had so many songs that were already spilling over from that. So. Yeah. So again, it's just. It's one of those isolated writing songs in my. At my house and kind of sending it around, around to everybody getting their, their vibes, throwing input around and then. And then just getting with Zach Cervini and, And you know, making it sound good.

[Host]

How, how like Travis is doing. He's. His fans are running a mile a minute as well. How much are you writing a lot of that or is Travis coming? Like, I got my.

[Claudio Sanchez]

There's a. There's a little bit of both.

[Host]

Okay.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know, like some songs, you know, there are moments where, when I'm in the. When I'm just writing at home, like sometimes I need the leads to kind of inform or help support the vocals, you know, so there are moments where I kind of like step on what Travis does, but then there are moments where I do back off and I allow him to kind of be the voice of Shred. Yeah. Like to allow him to be there because it's not Coheed without Travis. You know what I mean?

[Host]

It's two very distinct shredded voices.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right. We are, we're very different. So it's like, it's like there's a respect there. So I don't. I wouldn't want that to be like, you know, I don't want it. It.

[Host]

It.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Coheed isn't. Isn't just me in a room. As much as I love the idea of tributing the demo, which is that it needs the other players to have its true identity.

[Host]

And Josh is, you know, the open handed freak style. That's my.

[Co-host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

I've loved. I've. That something. The little ghost notes, something I connected to.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, dude, he will love you for that. That's the Ghost King.

[Host]

Yeah, he's a specter on the kid. Phil Spectre.

[Co-host]

All the symbols on one. Damn.

[Host]

On one Side. Is that a nightmare for. Does he do that in recording too?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, yeah, he has to. It's his performance. I mean. No, because it's, you know, it's. That's his character. You know, I mean, I'm sure it could be. Because. Yeah. You're not getting the isolation on the.

[Host]

Right.

[Claudio Sanchez]

On the hot hat as much as you would. Do they.

[Host]

Does he record like shells and cymbals separately now?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Shells and symbols?

[Host]

No.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

People do that.

[Host]

People are crazy.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. No, old school.

[Host]

Hey.

[Co-host]

Yeah, sure.

[Host]

Love it. After. How do you know at this point, after 11 songs, when a song is done, how do you get stuck still? Yes. Or do you just do. But do you follow your instinct? First and foremost for me, it's.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know, the thing that I get stuck on is. Is when is a record complete? And I. And I mean that in terms of, like, when is it too long, when is it too short? You know, where are we hitting all the beats we need to in the story? That's in my mind. And also the emotions that I'm trying to get at the capture, like, what I'm going through in this moment in time. That's the hardest part for me because like, like I said, Good Apollo or Excuse Me, Goodbye Sunshine was a song that was sitting around during Window of the Waking Mind. There were other ones too. I mean, I think Play the Poet was a riff that was hanging out for a while.

[Host]

So that does happen.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, like they just sit, you know, there's. We released these four entity songs. One of the songs is called Key Entity Number eight, Peter the Wishing. And that song is as old as Afterman.

[Host]

Oh, wow.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Like, that song was a. Was the song.

[Host]

This is in the like 18 track version of it. That just.

[Claudio Sanchez]

The new version. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's. There's the. So that song was what informed Gravity's Union. So, like, that's a hit, right? Yeah, I love Gravity. It's my favorite. One of my favorite Coheed songs. And. But like that. But that. At that time I wrote that tune and I didn't really see what it really meant to me. And then like, I remember when my grandfather passed away and like, some of the phrases in that song reminded me of that. And I was like, that's what this song is about. So I, you know, colored the entity after those experiences.

[Co-host]

So when you get to 10 tracks out of 11 done on a record, or you just have 10 done, you don't know how many you're going for, but you get the feeling we need one more I think we need one more. How are you forcing? How are you squeezing out this idea? Do you just pick up a guitar and start fiddling? Or are you going back to your demos? Are you going back to a bank?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Most of the time going back to the demos. I mean, I don't. There's. I don't think there's ever a moment, to be honest, that there's not enough material. It's always. There's two.

[Co-host]

So you're just. You're demoing.

[Host]

Yeah. And it's complicated because any other band, you would think, like, the shorter, the better. It's fine, we can keep it short. You have a rabid Die Hard fan base that wants the experience to be grand and they want it. They want to pick apart what you're saying. Only 10 songs motif. So. Yeah, it's harder for you than kind of anybody.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, I. I mean, for me, it's like, for example, like Dark side of Me. Right. That wasn't even a song that was going to be on any of the Afterman records. It was a riff. Travis was working on the verse riff, like in the kitchen area at Apple Head. And I was like, that's a cool riff. And let. Let me take that. I take the riff home, learn it, and I construct a song around it. And I'm like that this is worthy of the record. This is a thing, you know, and it's not even like, it didn't feel like we were missing anything. It was just like at that moment in time, it's like, that's. That is a statement and I. I'm inspired by it. Let me. Let me see what I can do with it. Get it to a place and it's like, okay, this is. This has a home on this record, or it doesn't, you know?

[Co-host]

Yeah. How often does that happen? How often is a. An idea brought where. It's just.

[Host]

That's not yet.

[Co-host]

Not yet. Not there.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right. It happens a lot.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. You know, but I think it, you know, because I kind of fought. Everything kind of funnels through me. So it's like, you know, you know, it's just kind of the way things have, like, gone through a little bit of a year, but like. But like, there are moments where just if it hits like 10, it's usually it's from Travis. 10 speed. 10 speed is a Rift Travis messing with. And it's like, you know, Dark side of Me, what's off of Radio, Bye Bye Rift or Travis had, you know, so there are things when they're like, in My periphery. And like, I can. It's in informing a melody. Like, I don't. Yeah, yeah. And. And that's the thing is sometimes there are those moments where it doesn't. And it's. You know, and people are maybe disappointed sometimes by that, but it's not, you know, just. It's just. Because if it hits me, then it's like. It's worth, like, exploring that moment.

[Co-host]

It all seems very fluid, very liquid and flexible and. And creative in that. So that makes a lot of sense.

[Host]

We're gonna wind up it down here a little bit.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host]

We're gonna band for forever. How at this point do you relax on tour?

[Claudio Sanchez]

I. I write. I. I write.

[Co-host]

You're just a music guy.

[Host]

You just don't stop.

[Claudio Sanchez]

So I. I realized you, you know, garage band with the right preamp. So all that right there, that's.

[Host]

You're on Garage, man. You're not even on Logic.

[Claudio Sanchez]

No, just. I just. Because it's on my phone. Logic, you know, So I just record now, like, ideas all the time on my phone. And then I'll take them, I'll bounce them out, I'll put the stems in Pro Tools, and then I'll work off those. Like, typically, I'm working at home and I'm doing my thing, but, like, now I found this other option just. Bright.

[Co-host]

What is your. What does your voice memo app look like on your phone?

[Host]

Oh, dude.

[Claudio Sanchez]

It's a mess. Dude, look at.

[Co-host]

Are you like a riff hummer into the. Like, if you're on the go, you.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Just all, all the time.

[Host]

You can't see it, but it's miles.

[Claudio Sanchez]

It goes forever.

[Host]

Oh, my God.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yo, lights still going. Look at. Oh, these are all. These are notes. In Paris. We're in Paris.

[Co-host]

We're back to 2020.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Then my. This is my house, is where I live. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so. Yeah, all over. Look, Atlantic Avenue. So I'm probably walking around the neighborhood.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know, but. Yeah. And then I just. Things get lost. So every once in a while, I kind of go in here, smart. And I'll listen, of course, and see if there's something there that's just like, surprising.

[Co-host]

But that makes total sense. I knew it. I knew. I knew the answer was going to.

[Host]

Be nah, nah, miles long. What are some simple pleasures in your life that you enjoy? You collect anything?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, I collect synthesizers. I collect gear. I like gear a lot.

[Host]

You got gas?

[Claudio Sanchez]

I do, yeah. I like gas.

[Host]

Gear acquisition syndrome.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, is that what that is?

[Co-host]

Let's talk a little Gear. We rarely talk about gear.

[Claudio Sanchez]

People want.

[Host]

Let's talk gear.

[Co-host]

Okay, tell me what's. What's your grail guitar? What do you got that you're just.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Over the moon about? I think, you know, the guitars that I play on stage, I mean, I don't have anything that's, like, insane. You know, I have, like, a 70s, like, less Paul Telecaster Deluxe. That's cool and vintage, but it's not. I got it because, you know, when we were doing Color before the sun, that was the guitar I was using for most of that record. And, like. And so I found one at, like, a Carter's Vintage in Nashville, and I bought one. But I don't. Very rarely do I buy things like that. I typically like to buy the things that people don't want. Like, I'll go on Facebook, Marketplace. Like, this guitar, for example, I bought this for, like, $1,000 less than what it typically goes for. It's brand new. It had plastic on it. The guy just didn't like it. No. And I had nothing with P90s.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

So I was like, you know what? I'm gonna get that now.

[Host]

Are you showing up yourself to get this thing?

[Claudio Sanchez]

No. Typically, it's on tour, so, like, Ernie, our tour manager, will, like, will help facilitate. But, like, I like to buy the things that people don't want. Like, the misfit things. Like, like, you know, because I know that there's magic in all the. That's, like, getting thrown away.

[Co-host]

The, the idea. Do you find this to be true? The idea of, of grabbing an instrument that's new to you and being inspired?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Co-host]

It's. It's a very real thing.

[Claudio Sanchez]

It is, absolutely. This guitar, dude, I'm telling you, like, it's, you know, it's not a guitar that. I mean, I, I was, like, not sure if I should bring it. Like, I. I flew with this thing.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

You know, on. In that gig bag. Like, I, I enjoy playing it. So, yeah, it's, like, you know, it's cool like that. I, I, I, I bought that. I mean. And most of the time, I like to collect big muffs.

[Host]

Okay.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, I got one actually in the bag. Like a version four, you know?

[Host]

How often do you activate a big muff in the set?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Never. Okay. Now I'm playing in the. But I have been writing a lot with them now, and so. And I. And I'm starting to find the difference between the versions. Threes. Yeah. And the fours. And, like, so now I'm, you know, actively, like, seeking out, like, of the versions, so I can, you know, have the different.

[Host]

Is that your favorite pedal of all time?

[Claudio Sanchez]

I think it is, yeah. You know. Cause the first one I had, you know, I kind of acquired it like in a fucked up way because I was young. I remember. So my music teacher, Bert Hughes, who just passed away, amazing person, he had one in a box in high school. I went into his office cuz he asked me to get something. I went in there and I was looking for it in the draw drawers. I was in the high school jazz band and he had a big muff. And I remember like Jay Maskus from Dinosaur junior Uses the big muff. Like that's a thing.

[Co-host]

Three of them.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, yeah. And so I, I was like, I'm gonna, I'm like. And his office was a wreck. So I'm like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take this home. I'm gonna mess with this. Yeah, exactly. And then immediately, and I'm bring it back. I was gonna, I promised I was gonna bring it back and like. But then I should have just asked him to borrow it, but I didn't, I just, I thought he would probably say no. So sure enough, he goes into that office and he asks, where is it? And I'm like, oh, I can't, I can't, I, I up.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And then years later, he came to a Coheed show before he passed away and I told him about it. I was like, man, you know, I, I really, I feel really sorry. I, I, I kind of took this thing for, from you. And he was like, that was actually a gift for you.

[Host]

No.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

And you cherished it so much instinctively that you didn't take it on that tour.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Right, right. Yeah.

[Co-host]

That was the one you bled on.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. And I, I actually cloned it for a pedal release that we put out called the Anna for the end. Because like, I used to use it around the times of like second stage, like early, like writing with those songs and stuff like that. And it's the pedal that like back then I would always put like an overdrive, like a super overdrive in front of a big muff for it. Yeah, yeah. And, and it just, that's what got me into understanding like signal flow in pedal chains.

[Host]

Gazena Gazzada.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, right. And yeah, and I love that. And, and so I just cherished that like, pairing. And now anytime, like Coheed ever needs like, like feet, like unruly feedback, like for example, the song Toys, there's that moment where everything stops and it's like it's got like that nirvana kind of feedback. It's always that pairing in front of big muff.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Is there anything you collect or that you're into that is not musical comics?

[Claudio Sanchez]

I do collect key moments in comic books.

[Host]

Like Amazing Fantasy 15.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. I wish I had that. Like, my wife and I almost bought one of those. But, you know, when we were collecting together, we chose to collect. We. Instead of buying a poorly graded American Fantasy or American Amazing Fantasy 15, we actually got first. First Avengers and the Tales of Suspense, first Iron Man.

[Co-host]

But what is key moment? What is that?

[Claudio Sanchez]

It means like the first time.

[Host]

Yeah. Like, Amazing Fantasy 15 is the Spider Man's first appearance.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

The iconic cover.

[Co-host]

So a key moment is a. Yeah, like, ubiquitous term. Like, it's. It could be used for anything.

[Host]

Yeah. What was Punisher's first appearance was in.

[Claudio Sanchez]

A. I got that.

[Host]

Is it. Was it in Wolverine?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, it was a Spider Man. Spider Man.

[Host]

Yeah. I got.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Like, things like that. Like Wolverine's first appearance. An Incredible Hulk 181. It's typically Marvel stuff. Like, every once in a while I'll find a D.C. thing that makes sense to me. Like the first appearance of a Calendar man, which is like, kind of like a weird. I love the Calendar Man.

[Co-host]

What is. What does he do?

[Claudio Sanchez]

He's. He's really not. He's like a.

[Host]

He's a troll.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. He's like a calendar, like, villain.

[Host]

He's like the Condiment King.

[Claudio Sanchez]

He's just silly. I like him.

[Host]

That's awesome.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I think he was used to really. Well in a. In a Batman story called the Long Halloween and Dark Victory. Right. Like, in a very, like Hannibal Lecter kind of way.

[Co-host]

I've read that one.

[Host]

Which is what the Batman is partial. Was partially inspired by. That's why it starts on Halloween. It's a year too.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, of course.

[Co-host]

So comic books.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, comic books. Sometimes toys. There are toys in the house. Movie posters. You know, like vintage movie posters. I have a few of them. Not a ton. Like Bill and Ted and Crawl.

[Host]

If you guys are you.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I collect Crawl shit.

[Co-host]

Cool.

[Claudio Sanchez]

But there's not a whole lot of it. Like board games, card games. That's probably about it. My wife just got me like, a movie program that you got for my anniversary. But I live in Brooklyn, so when the mailman puts shit on the porch, people steal it.

[Host]

That's done.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And somebody took it. Oh, yeah.

[Co-host]

Come on, guys.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Guys. What are you going to do with that? Yeah, they chucked it. They were very disappointed when they open that up.

[Host]

All right, let's wind it down. Let's wind it down real low here. This is going to be tough.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Okay.

[Host]

And I'm sorry. You can take your time with this. I Want to know 4 coheed riffs that when you finished, you felt like you cracked the Da Vinci Code.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Okay, well, I probably welcome Home is definitely one of them.

[Co-host]

It'd have to be.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Because I just. Yeah. The excitement of when I played it. Gravity's Union as a song, like I. That's actually the song that made me realize Josh had come back into the band. So when I wrote that, I was still living up in the country and I. I wake up early. So I was writing it and the sun was coming up. I lived next to of a couple cornfield at the time and the sun was coming up and I was air drumming to this composition that I put together. Like. Like I was. And I started crying and I was playing like ferociously to in the air. Open handed. Yeah, like. Yeah, yeah. Open handed, right? And I was like, man, you know, if he's okay, I. This. I am considering this is. Should happen, you know. So Gravity's Union.

[Co-host]

That is beautiful.

[Claudio Sanchez]

What else?

[Host]

What else would be a big riff, big revelation. Writing revelation.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I did it.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I did it. Yeah.

[Co-host]

The eureka moment.

[Claudio Sanchez]

There's just so many.

[Host]

You weren't like, that's sick.

[Claudio Sanchez]

No. I remember writing Fear through the Eyes of Madness. I was with my wife and we were in the Florida Keys. So I remember writing that moment. So for that I'll remember. I remember that moment because I was like, this is like. Reminds me of Jethro Tull meets Iron Maiden or something. Like weird ass shit like, you know, like if only I could be playing the flute. But I remember that and I think time consuming because it's probably the first one, you know. And I was in Paris and I had. I bought this Yamaha like while I was out there. This is back when you could actually fly with in between your legs. So like when I went home with it, it was like. It was the most uncomfortable eight hours I think I'd ever experienced on a plane.

[Co-host]

Eight hours Raw dog and ten.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. Looking at the back of this headstock.

[Host]

Thing, like waiting to play it.

[Co-host]

But I just sneak any riffs in on the.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

No way. Yes.

[Claudio Sanchez]

But yeah, that's.

[Host]

That's fantastic. And then I also want to know your top four non Coheed line check riffs of all time.

[Co-host]

Oh, good.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, I like that. You know, I don't know many songs that's the thing.

[Host]

You're a writer, you know.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, like, I, I, yeah, I'm not, I, I, I really don't have any. I just like, I just like noodle away and you just kind of go for it. Yeah.

[Co-host]

Right.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

You write for Soundcheck.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah, probably.

[Host]

I mean, the same way.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

Not as, not as good.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Crowbar, crowbar.

[Host]

Every time I'll hit a straight ahead riff or something. But other than that, it's, I have to have written it. Very interesting answer. That makes a lot, that makes total sense. And then the last question would be. And hopefully Blaze prepared you. He did, he did good. Could you tell me your top four records of all time on the extreme music spectrum. Punk, hardcore, death metal, etc.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Okay, so one would probably have to be Sex Pistols, Nevermind the Bollocks.

[Host]

Come on.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And, and, you know, and that, and that even goes into like the collection of the greatest rock and roll swindle. Even though that's not like a real record. Like, there's shit on there that I can get down with and I like that movie. But so I think that because it's my. It's the probably the first punk rock record I had ever listened to because my friend Patrick, who's on the, who's on the cruise? On the cruise, you know, I wasn't punk. Wouldn't be on my radar if it wasn't for him. And probably that record, awesome.

[Host]

You know, it was a gateway to many.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

And dude, I was listening to the other day. I, you know, it was almost. I was in a store in Europe and it was playing and I, and I had listened to it in the dressing room like nights before, but it still felt like new and exciting to me because at moments it felt cleaner than it's then, then it's ever in the store. I was like, what the hell is that? Never. I'm not sure what. They didn't have any other records. What record is it?

[Co-host]

Was it remastered? No.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. It must have been, because it just sounded like just detail you've never heard.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. But it's a record that I've been listening to a lot of now and is also inspired the character of Blindside Sonny.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

So the next would have to be the Misfits collection of Legacy of Brutality. Because when we were kids, as a. The first band I was in the drummer. His father, the drummer's father used to work for a tape manufacturing company and they would do things for like Caroline Records and whatever have you. So there were all sorts of tapes that we'd pull from and get inspired from by whether it was like, the Naked Reagan's or, like the gay bikers on acid. But. But Legacy of Brutality is one that I picked simply because I liked the. The ghoul on the COVID Right.

[Host]

And like, he gets all of us. He comes for us all eventually.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. And. But then we, like, listened to it, and it. I think it really kind of taught me songs. Yeah. You know, I listen to other. I listened to tons of music before it, but the simplicity, the melodic, the hooks, you know, Hooky band.

[Co-host]

It's perfect.

[Host]

They're the hookiest man. What they did with what they had is impossible.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Unbelievable. It's sick. It's sick. And we used to cover she because of it.

[Co-host]

Really?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Host]

Cool.

[Claudio Sanchez]

This was my first band. We were called, like, Toxic Parents, which Pat was singing it next would have to be. It have to be number three. Would have to be the two that I brought up before Effigy of the Forgotten by Suffocation and Obituary caused the death match. Yeah. Just like, let that be number three, because those were the two records I would sleep with. That was how, you know, that was as extreme metal, I think, as I. As I had gotten at the time.

[Host]

That's as extreme as you need to be.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, okay. Right on. We just got to see Obituary in Germany. They were playing at the venue across the street.

[Host]

Wow.

[Claudio Sanchez]

So we got to catch a little bit of them before we went on.

[Host]

They still got.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

So sick. I was like, wow. I can believe it. And then Travis got a hoodie, and I was. I was jealous because I didn't have my. I have my euros on me to get one.

[Host]

They would have given you.

[Claudio Sanchez]

They don't know who I am.

[Host]

Was the song the Incomplete inspired by the.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Absolutely. The title. Absolutely. From the album Incomplete.

[Host]

Yes.

[Co-host]

That's what we call hard. That's hard lore.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Oh, and there was one more.

[Host]

Damn it.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I forgot. Where's the. One more.

[Co-host]

You got it.

[Claudio Sanchez]

I'm gonna just go with Bad Brains. Eye against.

[Host]

Because of.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Simply because of my first experience with Doc. You know, like, sitting at a bar with somebody thinking that. Yeah, like. But, like, I was like, I can't believe this man is telling me this. Who is this person? And then, you know, being in Woodstock, New York, I'm not gonna think like.

[Co-host]

Oh, that was in Woodstock. No, I did not. Thought that was in the city. Yeah.

[Claudio Sanchez]

No, Woodstock. I know, right? Because he had lived. He lives up there, and I think so does Daryl. Wow. You know, Daryl lives up there. And. And I was just like, oh, you know, Wow. I am actually sitting next to a legend. Yeah. You know, and then to be able to, like, have him be on the opening song of our debut record is like, I mean, pretty incredible.

[Host]

And the only guest ever on a cohee record.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Yeah. It ties writing, you know, it's on the.

[Host]

Unbelievable. Claudio, thank you so much, dude.

[Claudio Sanchez]

Thanks, guys. This was cool, man. I hope I didn't board the hell.

[Host]

Wasn't that unbelievable?

[Claudio Sanchez]

Thank you all so much.

[Host]

Thank you all for watching. Thank you all for listening. Father make believe is out now. The cruise will be back in 2027. If he's. If he's. If he's willing and he's ready. No world for tomorrow. Unbelievable. Insane. They're playing Star wars music now.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Host]

It's poetic. It's beautiful. It's hard.

[Co-host]

Lord.

[Host]

Thank you. Bye. This episode is brought to you by Mad Vintage.