Frank "Florida Frank" Novinec: Hatebreed, Ringworm, Integrity, Terror (& The Kiss Army)

Summary

HardLore Podcast: Frank "3 Gun" Novinec – Stories from the Hardcore Trenches

Date: February 5, 2026
Hosts: Colin Young & Bo Lueders (Knotfest)
Guest: Frank “3 Gun” Novinec (Hatebreed, Ringworm, Integrity, Terror)

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Episode Overview

This episode of HardLore features Frank “3 Gun” Novinec—legendary guitarist whose career spans hardcore and metal heavyweights: Hatebreed, Ringworm, Integrity, and Terror. Frank takes the hosts on a wild journey, blending personal history, subcultural lore, outrageous road stories, and frank (no pun intended) reflections on hardcore’s evolution. The talk ranges from his Cleveland roots and the birth of his nickname, through forming genre-defining bands, to navigating international festivals, fast-food rankings, and ghost stories.

Frank’s warmth, wit, self-awareness, and candor shine as he dishes on scene politics, band dynamics, Kiss fandom, and seeing the hardcore scene from every vantage point.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origin of "Frank 3 Gun" (00:00, 30:01)

• Frank’s Nickname: Frank recounts the infamous event that earned him the "3 Gun" moniker—during a standoff with Snapcase, members of Integrity handed him three guns before the cops arrived.

“They're like, here you go. You take these. ... Three of them. And I was like, God, if the cops come, I'm fucked. Right? ... That's how it happened, and DWID started calling me that after that. I didn't think it was funny at all.”
—Frank (00:24; 31:09)

• Legacy of the Name: Frank jokes about giving fake answers now, but he’s come to accept the nickname.

“That’s not who I am. But, whatever. It’s still your name on Discogs.”
—Frank (32:32)

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2. Early Life, Family & Cleveland Roots (05:49)

• Tough Upbringing: Frank’s entry to music stemmed from a tumultuous home—his parents partied hard, and music became an escape.

“It was a terrible environment to grow up with the stuff that went on at my house ... But the positive to come out of all that was the music."
—Frank (05:54)

• Discovering Rock/Metal: Early exposure to Deep Purple’s “Smoke on the Water,” then obsessively digging through his dad’s records.

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3. Discovering Hardcore & the Local Scene (10:59)

• Transition from Metal: Kiss was a cultural explosion for him as a child. Skateboarding and local scenes shifted his interests to hardcore punk.

“Skateboarding was the social lubricant of the 80s.”
—Bo (11:22)
“The local bands are so important when you're getting into this stuff because they're the ones that make you realize that you can do this and they're the heroes.”
—Frank (12:32)

• Cleveland’s Influence: Bands like Confront and the local culture pushed him into performance.

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4. Formation and Evolution of Ringworm & Integrity (13:46)

• Band Formation: Early collaborations with James (the Human Furnace).

“Ringworm was just an answer to the stuff we were into... I was really into the youth crew bands and New York hardcore ... I was angry. The lyrics are over the top angry.”
—Frank (15:53)

• Impact & Legacy of 'The Promise':
  • Frank discusses the rawness of Ringworm’s early records, their mistakes, and the magic in their imperfection.

“I understand, there’s records that should never be messed with. ... But come on, man, I think that [Promise] could become better.”
—Frank (24:03)

• Joining Integrity:

“Ringworm didn’t really do anything. ... I put my energy into [Integrity], and it was great because we were all friends.”
—Frank (25:00)

• Songwriting Contributions:
  • Frank wrote half of Humanity Is The Devil and large parts of Seasons of the Size of Days.

“Half the songs on Humanity as the Devil were mine. Half the songs on Season of the Size of Days are mine.”
—Frank (26:04)

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5. Touring Life and Scene Stories (27:41; 28:14)

• Double Duty On Tour: Touring Europe in 1995, playing in both Integrity and Ringworm every night.

“Me and the drummer played twice a night.”
—Frank (27:54)

• Touring with Fury of Five:
  • Wild times: “People got beat up. Cars got flipped upside down ... Bands on the bus got beat up. People got beat up ... It was tough because it was seven weeks.”
    —Frank (29:24; 29:36)

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6. Band Dynamics, Records, and Production (34:13; 36:38; 48:17)

• Returning to Ringworm: After leaving Integrity, Frank wanted to recapture Ringworm’s ferocity but with better production.

“I wanted to do something that was like the Ringworm Promise, but had more metallic edge and double bass ...”
—Frank (34:53)

• Writing & Production Comments:
  • “Berth’s Pain” songs came easy, but he laments the production.
  • "Justice" was a rebirth for Ringworm, with heavier production suiting a new era.

“Writing those songs was so easy. I look back on the production, and I kind of kicked myself in the ass...”
—Frank (38:18)
“This is a complete album. I just wish the other records had that kind of polish.”
—Frank (52:45)

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7. Terror and Songwriting Crossover (53:32; 56:19)

• Joining Terror: Lifelong friendship with Scott Vogel leads to the invite, but Frank’s party lifestyle and family emergencies created hurdles.

“It was a wake up call for me to be like, alright, you’re trying to do this for real.”
—Frank (59:59)

• Songs Meant for Terror Ended Up Elsewhere:
  • Some songs he wrote for Terror ended up on Ringworm and Ice Pick records.

“Those songs are on the Ice Pick record ... and two songs on the Ringworm record after that.”
—Frank (56:29)

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8. Hatebreed and Leveling Up (61:06)

• Joining Hatebreed:
  • Big leap, facing world tours and main stage Ozfest.

“I was shook. This is like level up, leveling up ... I was just questioning myself if I was ready for this or not.”
—Frank (61:13)

• Current Dynamic:
  • The band now tours less, cherishes the longevity, and enjoys both metal and hardcore respect.

“When you get to be in your 50s and ... lucky enough to have a career in music this long, you count the blessings.”
—Frank (63:06)

• European Perspective:
  • European audiences are passionate and loyal; huge fests like Hellfest feel special.

“As far as Europe’s concerned... it takes a lot to win them over, but unless you let them down, they’re there til their life is over.”
—Frank (64:57)

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9. Kiss Fandom, The Kiss Navy, and Touring With Idols (66:44; 68:10)

• Direct Support for Kiss:
  • Dream come true, meeting his heroes in full makeup.

"I had a Paul Stanley tattoo ... It was cool to go back there and have him sign my arm ... be like, alright, no, I'm real."
—Frank (69:13)

• Kiss Navy Stories:
  • Hilarious rankings, wild international parties, beating Gene Simmons in a guitar pick-throwing contest.

“I beat Gene in a guitar pick throwing contest ... I won a Kiss bicycle and $100 out of his wallet.”
—Frank (73:50)

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10. Culinary Lore: Food Favorites on Tour (86:45)

• Food on the Road:

  • Hates touring food but loves Italian beef in Chicago ("sopping wet"), sardines, and anchovies on pizza; recommends Cleveland’s Eastern European cuisine.

• Bus Setup:

  • Hatebreed avoids fast food; instead, they travel with a foreman grill, crock pot, skillet—everyone buys and cooks their own food.

"Hatebreed rolls with a foreman, a crock pot, and a skillet ... we take money instead of catering and just buy whatever we want."
—Frank (90:07)

• Fast Food Debates:
  • In-N-Out, Chick-fil-A, Checkers, noodles & company, Popeyes – all weighed and debated with genuine gusto.

“For Manny Bros up all day!”
—Frank (91:02)

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11. Ghost Stories & The Nature of Touring (93:30, 94:52)

• Frank’s Paranormal Encounter:
  • Ghost “touching my legs and making noise, banging on the wall all night… wild.”

"Like King Diamond says, the house is forever haunted. There’s nothing you can do."
—Frank (94:25; 94:30)

• Post-50 Perspective:
  • Loves the stage hour, dislikes the rest of touring, but loves his Florida life.

“At my age, I click my heels together like Dorothy—there’s no place like home.”
—Frank (94:52)

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12. Hardcore Ethos & Legacy (101:08)

• On Kindness and Scene Responsibility:
  • Frank is praised for always being approachable, inclusive, and supportive of younger bands.

“You're the guy, dude. ... You go up to people from day one. You embrace them, you accept them. So thank you for being so cool.”
—Colin (101:11)

“It is our responsibility, especially in hardcore and punk ... the next generation is what's going to keep it going. So we must, we must support them.”
—Colin (102:04)

• Achievements & Lasting Impact:
  • From direct supporting Kiss to jamming with Blue Öyster Cult onstage at Hellfest, Frank expresses gratitude for an unexpectedly enduring career:

“To play a Hellfest and turn around and see your favorite band on stage watching you...that was a moment.”
—Frank (96:30, 98:41)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Frank on Cleveland Hardcore:

  “It’s a subculture of a subculture. ... But it’s the best one. It’s the coolest one.”
  (13:25)

• On Band Rivalries:

  “We weren't ... buddy buddies with all these other bands out here like everyone else is doing. ... You're all fools forever believing in us."
  (44:39)

• On Fast Food:

  "Hatebreed wakes up at a Super Walmart every morning ... and we just go in and buy whatever we want."
  (90:07)

• On Touring Europe:

  “They love that music over there. They love it everywhere.”
  (64:57)

• On Growing Older in Music:

  “When you get to be in your 50s ... you count the blessings.”
  (63:06)

• On Kindness in the Scene:

  “Who are our bands without the people that love it?"
  (101:47)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Frank 3 Gun origin: 00:00, 30:01
• Family & music upbringing: 05:49
• Hardcore/punk discovery: 10:59
• Cleveland’s influence, local bands: 12:32
• Forming Ringworm/Integrity: 13:46
• Stories from 90s touring: 27:41, 28:14
• Ringworm/Promise reflection: 24:00
• Returning to Ringworm: 34:13
• On joining Terror: 53:32
• Hatebreed experiences: 61:06
• Kiss fandom stories: 66:44, 68:10, 73:50
• Fast food/tour food: 86:45, 90:07
• Ghost experience: 93:30
• Attitude to touring, Florida life: 94:52
• Hardcore legacy message: 101:08

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Closing Thoughts

Frank “3 Gun” Novinec embodies the bridge between eras, genres, and scenes—never aloof or gatekeeping, always game for the next adventure, bit of lore, or backstage snack. This episode vibrates with the real joy and absurdity of hardcore’s journey, mixing personal candor, historical anecdotes, and the reminder that—in Frank’s words—“getting to travel the world with your friends isn’t so bad.”

“Glad to be part of it. ... I know we talked about it for a while and appreciate you having me on. ... We’ll be dropping a [Hatebreed] record this year, so hopefully we’ll see you guys out on the road.”
—Frank (102:58)

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End.

Transcript

[Host 1]

Tell me about the name Frank Three Gun.

[Frank Novanek]

Well, integrity used to start a bunch of. Back in the day, as a lot of people know, they would carry guns sometimes. And that's some beef with Snap Case at the show. I think that DWID said something on stage about them. And the singer for Snapcase had jumped up on stage, and it ended up being a standoff with those two. And then everybody knew the cops was coming. They're like, here you go. You. You take these.

[Host 2]

Three of them.

[Frank Novanek]

Three of them. And I was like, God, if the cops come, I'm right. I got. Who even knows what these guns are registered? Anybody? Like, so that. And dwit. That was so funny. Which I didn't think it was funny at all. So DWID started calling me that after that.

[Host 1]

Hello, welcome. It's Hard Lore time. How you doing, Beau?

[Host 2]

I'm doing so good. It's so hot. Who do we got today?

[Host 1]

We are in sunny Orlando, Florida, even in January, and we have an unbelievably special guest today. This is one of our favorite guys, to put it frankly, and to put it simply, a mythical hardcore figure, some would call him, with one of the greatest band resumes in the history of our sport. From Cleveland, Ohio, now residing in Florida, representing the Kiss army and the Kiss Navy. Some call him Frank Freegon. Some call him Mr. DNA. Many call him Florida Frank. All know him as Frank Novanek. How you doing, Frank?

[Frank Novanek]

I'm doing good. It's great to see you guys today.

[Host 1]

Great to see you.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Welcome.

[Frank Novanek]

Thank you. I know we've been trying to make this happen for a while, and here we are.

[Host 2]

Here we are.

[Host 1]

In person. Yeah, in person.

[Host 2]

We wanted to do it in person.

[Host 1]

You smell incredible.

[Frank Novanek]

Oh, thank you.

[Host 1]

And you always look good.

[Host 2]

Yeah, you look great.

[Host 1]

Tell me about your outfit.

[Frank Novanek]

You know, I rep Florida even though I'm from Cleveland. You know, I rep Florida except for football. What does Fury of 5 say? It's not where you're from, it's where you're at.

[Host 1]

It's where you're at.

[Frank Novanek]

Right. Wow. Anyways, the race. Yeah, they're. We have some fans in the organization, actually, and they're here tonight, and they had me throw the first pitch out right before the stadium got blown apart by the hurricane. So that was pretty cool. So.

[Host 1]

So you're one of the last to ever do it.

[Frank Novanek]

One of them, Yeah. I mean, they're repairing it now, but. That was scary.

[Host 2]

Yeah, that was scary, sure.

[Host 1]

When was that?

[Frank Novanek]

The year before last.

[Host 1]

Okay. Were you. Was your home affected by it at all.

[Host 2]

Oh, I remember. I remember.

[Frank Novanek]

No, because I'm on the. I'm clear across the other side of the state, so.

[Host 1]

By the ocean.

[Host 2]

That was right after.

[Frank Novanek]

On the east coast.

[Host 2]

That was right after we got off that tour.

[Frank Novanek]

Yes.

[Host 2]

Together.

[Frank Novanek]

That's right. I remember. I knew about it for months. Yeah, didn't I? Should have practiced. Because when I got up there, I was like, jesus, that's far. And I didn't want to pull like a Fauci or an Obama and throw it to first base like they did. And sure, of course, then again, you get all the YouTube views and all.

[Host 2]

That, but.

[Host 1]

She killed that. That first toss.

[Frank Novanek]

Well, he threw it the first. He blew it, I think. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Come on, how'd you do it?

[Frank Novanek]

I got it across the plate.

[Host 2]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Frank Novanek]

But I definitely. I stood on the bottom of the mountains. Okay. It's far, but hey, man, they were playing Hate Breed over the PA there.

[Host 1]

Pretty cool.

[Frank Novanek]

I mean, that was cool. Gave me my own.

[Host 1]

What did I tell you when you were going to tour with Hate Breed?

[Host 2]

I said, frank's gonna find.

[Host 1]

I said, you won't see. Jamie Wayne is very sweet. Matt's great. Frank is gonna find you. Frank will come to you and bring you in.

[Frank Novanek]

And pretty.

[Host 2]

Pretty early on, you did come up to me one day and you were like, where the fuck you been? I thought you wanted to hear stories. And I did. I got him.

[Frank Novanek]

I'm down to hang. You know what I mean? So we had a good time on that tour.

[Host 2]

I love that tour, you know.

[Frank Novanek]

Congratulations on all your guys endeavors. The success of the podcast is unbelievable. All the bands you're involved with.

[Host 1]

Thanks, man.

[Frank Novanek]

It's great. Hard lore. What a genius name. That was genius, by the way.

[Host 2]

Thank you.

[Host 1]

Trademark now.

[Frank Novanek]

I love that.

[Host 1]

Thank you.

[Frank Novanek]

Very cool.

[Host 1]

Thank you. Yeah, I was the spur of the moment. It's like, well, we're doing this thing together. We need a name. Hardcore lore.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Was real quick.

[Host 2]

It was very natural.

[Host 1]

It was very.

[Host 2]

Why the Broncos?

[Frank Novanek]

It's a long. It's a long story. When I.

[Host 2]

We got like an hour growing up.

[Frank Novanek]

In Cleveland, a lot of people were Steelers fans back in the day. My father was. And it was a big rivalry back before the Browns sucked. And, you know, I was young, young, like 6, 7 years old. And I just liked. Because my dad liked it. Yeah, the Steelers.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

So they would send me to school with Steeler stuff on, and the kids would just destroy me and be like, what the hell is that? And I Was like, why is everybody being a jerk? You know what I mean? So, like, I just hated Browns fans then because. Because of that. Okay, Fast forward to 87. I'm. You know, I'm older now. I'm thinking for myself as far as teams are concerned and all that. And Elway kind of screwed the Browns out of going to the super bowl, and I was like, that's my team. You guys are all miserable and made me miserable for years, and I've been riding with them since then, and it sucked because I jumped aboard when they lost three Super Bowls in a row. But I've been.

[Host 1]

Elway was such a cultural milestone, though.

[Frank Novanek]

I always like my guy. Yeah, I mean, it was cool that Peyton showed up and got a ring and all that, but I'm definitely an outway person.

[Host 2]

But they're looking good this year. This season.

[Frank Novanek]

I mean. Yeah, I got. Like I said, I got the fever, but I'm not a believer. We. We. He's good. I'm looking at that record and I'm like, how. Yeah, how do we pull that off? Yeah, and I know how. We played the Bengals with Alberto. We played the Texans with Alstrad. We played KC without Mahomes. We played the Chargers without Herbert. Got our asses handed to us by Jacksonville at home. The wheels are going to fall off that soon, so.

[Host 2]

Wow.

[Host 1]

Good.

[Frank Novanek]

Well, you heard it here first.

[Host 1]

Before they fall off.

[Host 2]

Should we.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Tell me about discovering music as a. As a lad, as a young man.

[Frank Novanek]

Parents partied in the 70s, and mine were really into that. It was a terrible environment to grow up with the stuff that went on at my house when I was young. You know, I mean, I. I tell people it, and they don't even believe it. But to go on, the music was there. The music was there. My father, he worked in the. In the foundry at the Ford plant. Like a lot of, you know, Cleveland is a steel mill and. And Ford plant, a Chevy plant, at least back then. And these are guys that just are drunk in the bar. Oh, yeah. Drugs and just beat downs, you know, all that stuff. And just, you know, my mother and father were in jail or rehab so much that I was constantly at my neighbor's house or with my grandparents who, you know, because of all that, just I thought were the greatest people in the world to this day. They are. Just because that was. That was that escapism for me. So. But the positive to come out of all that stuff was the music. You know, my father was. He had the tower speakers and awesome stereo, and they Said I used to only when Smoke on the Water came out and. And I was born in late 71 and that deep Purple record machine, I came out in 72. So it makes sense because it sure was getting radio play all the time. And he's like, when Smoke Underwater came on that just song you would get up and hold on to those tower speakers and dance with in your diapers. And like only a. Probably four or five years later, like I was digging through his records when he was at work and putting them on when I wasn't supposed to be and looking at those record covers and playing the first Leonard Skynyrd record or Rolling Stones record or the Doobie Brothers or whatever it was. So I got involved in music at such an early age and that's how it led me to where I am at such a young age. You know, you're always discovering and I feel like the earlier on that you're born into that crap, the earlier you find it. So it's obviously different the way we found music and, and scenes back then compared to how it's done now.

[Host 1]

But now it's. Everything's at your fingertips.

[Frank Novanek]

Sure. All time, at all times.

[Host 1]

So how do you get from rock and roll to heavy metal to hardcore punk music?

[Frank Novanek]

I mean, by the time. Well, KISS changed everything for me. You know, if you're a, if you were a kid my age, growing up in the 70s, like a boy especially, you were into Charlie's Angel, Dukes of Hazzard, Evil Knievel and Kiss. That was American pop culture and that.

[Host 1]

But it was that extreme American pop culture.

[Frank Novanek]

I mean, it was everywhere. Kiss was everywhere. And considering that we didn't. There was no YouTube and there was no way to see their concerts or anything like that. You go to the, you go to the, you go to the, the delicatessen and there's the cards on the, on the counter when you're checking out. You go to a Gold Circle or Zers, which are like Walmart, but back then there's all the toys there, there's the lunch boxes, there's the thermos.

[Host 1]

So they're everywhere, everywhere.

[Frank Novanek]

It's the biggest stuff ever. They're on the late night show. They had the movie that came out in 78. We were seven when that came out. And it just was mind blowing to me because at that, you know, I, I got into them probably when I was 6 and I had the records my grandmother bought me and I remember watching the movie as a kid and we couldn't believe that they were moving. Ah, because we only saw the record covers and that. It was like, wow, they're moving and talking.

[Host 2]

It was just mind blowing as like, to your point of everything being at your fingertips now, you can see anything immediately.

[Frank Novanek]

And. And from that you get into heavier things, you know, I started listening to heavier bands I was into. That led me to, like, Wasp, and that led me to Motorhead. And then that led me to, like, Merciful Fate and Slayer and all that stuff. Bands that I got was lucky enough to go see in the 80s because I was into all that stuff before I was in the punk and hardcore. I had some older brother, some friends that were older than me. They were like brothers to me, and they were into all that stuff. And the first show I ever went to where there was that wasn't like in an arena or, like, that wasn't like a concert, it was a show. Show was Venom, Slayer, Exodus. That's a crazy gig at the variety theater in 1985. And I didn't know much about the bands at that point. I just went with them and I was just. This stuff was new to me, you know, I would record college radio shows, and a lot of times they didn't tell you what the bands were. And you'd have to try to figure out what the hell there. You couldn't. There was no Internet. So it's like, who was that band? Like, if they don't come back and say, okay, that was Create a Riot of Violence or Motorhead, you know? So it's like, I'm just really trying to dig and discover this stuff. And I just. I couldn't believe it wasn't called moshing then. Yeah, I couldn't believe Slam dance. I couldn't believe it. So they were taking them all to me, to all these shows after that. Like, I'm trying to think of some of the ones that came through. Definitely Dark angel and Possessed came through.

[Host 1]

Okay, so you're saying the earliest death metal possible.

[Frank Novanek]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Megadeth and Overkill came through in 87. Voivod creator came through in 86. And I just remember they were like. Because I'm still friends with these guys, and they come to my shows now and stuff, and they're like, I can't believe that you. You know, you've stuck with this and you're playing it. Like, do you remember that you were this annoying little kid and you would be like. You would ask us, we'd tell you about these cool bands that we'd go to see, and all you would ask us is There gonna be slam dancing? Is there going to be stage diving? Because I just thought that was the coolest.

[Host 1]

That was the all the makings of a. Of a. A young punk.

[Frank Novanek]

Sure, sure.

[Host 1]

That's your.

[Frank Novanek]

And I was. And. And I know it's hard to believe, but I was a stick back then and. And a young person. I would obviously get smashed in those mosh pits.

[Host 1]

So is. Is moshing. What kind of leads you to hardcore, like straight up hardcore music?

[Frank Novanek]

Skateboarding. Skateboarding.

[Host 1]

Skateboarding.

[Host 2]

That does seem to be the 80s, like social lubricant. You know what I mean?

[Frank Novanek]

Skateboarding and hanging out with those kids. Yeah. What were the bands it became? Well, Agnostic Front. I mean I had long hair and when. When I found out about. I had a. I had a victim in pain and. And caused her alarm. It was a split cassette. It's a real thing that they put out. And there went the hair.

[Host 2]

Yeah, my hair was gone.

[Frank Novanek]

This is. This was just. There are very few bands had effect on me other than like Kiss, Slayer, Agnostic Front, you today those bands like that's that stuff. I mean, and then. What's your.

[Host 1]

What's your second favorite band?

[Frank Novanek]

Kiss is my second favorite band.

[Host 1]

Who's your favorite band?

[Frank Novanek]

Blue Oyster Cult. Oh.

[Host 1]

But they don't have the merch, right?

[Frank Novanek]

I don't. I don't have a Blue Oyster Cult room in my house. Let's just say that.

[Host 2]

Yeah, true.

[Frank Novanek]

I may have more than one Kiss room in my house. I know you. We'll get into that. We'll get there. But you know, so skateboarding. The skateboarding got me. And when I heard group sex, that was a game changer for me course. And that led me into that world. And then I, you know, started to go to local shows and. And I. And I tell people all the time, I was like, the local bands are so important when you're getting into this stuff because they're the ones that make you realize that you can do this and they're the heroes. And you can ask Vogel, you know, cuz he'll. He talks about zero. Zero tolerance, about how I would talk about confront. So like those bands. When we went to those shows and found out about that stuff, it was like another dimension we went into.

[Host 1]

Tell me about those bands in those shows. Does it confront.

[Frank Novanek]

For me, the greatest Cleveland hardcore man's confront. Wow. Because I saw it with my own eyes. Yeah. It was just straight power. And I was like, what is this? These dudes are wearing rugbys. I couldn't wrap my head around It. You know what I mean?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

Because I was into Agnostic Fraud and wearing combat boots and GBH and the Circle Jerks and Black Flag and wearing an army code and. You know what I mean? I went to vocational school with all the bad kids and they were into that shit. And then we went to this shit and we're like, what is this? And then, you know when you realize, looking back, it. It's a subculture of a subculture. Subculture, yeah.

[Host 1]

But it's the best one. It's the coolest one.

[Frank Novanek]

It's great. It really was just. It was a game changer for me. And then it wasn't long after that that I was playing in the band and. And maybe one or two years really, we were doing. How did.

[Host 1]

How did that happen? When do you pick up the guitar?

[Frank Novanek]

Well, I picked up the guitar long before that. And James, who is the singer for Ringworm, who you know is the human furnace. We graduated high school together. We've been friends since middle school.

[Host 1]

Was he a Gigi with you?

[Frank Novanek]

No.

[Host 1]

Were you a Gigi? Why you be a Gigi?

[Frank Novanek]

We're always with ggl. People are always like, what are the bands that influenced Ringworm the most? And I go, did you ever see that picture of Ray and Purcell and Gigi? I was like, there you go. That's the number one influences of Ringworm.

[Host 2]

Here it is.

[Frank Novanek]

Because we were in all that stuff. But he was more into. When I met him, he was more into like Violent Femmes and all that kind of stuff because he was hanging out with those kind of kids and skateboarding and he's a talented guy, that guy. I mean, he was a great skateboarder. He's a great artist. He's obviously a great singer. He's a great lyricist. Even was great at baseball. Like, he. He. He should have made the high school baseball team. But the coach was a prick and didn't want a skater on the team, so he cut him. But he's a talented man.

[Host 2]

He was one of the first guys I know. Won't get too far off topic, but he was one of the first guys where I saw Ringworm when I was still a teenager and he was in the. We're not in this alone. The white youth teenager with the red X. And where I kind of went, oh.

[Host 1]

You can like all this.

[Host 2]

You can do all that. You could sound like that, but.

[Host 1]

So you're playing guitar, you're learning fucking Detroit Rock City and stuff.

[Frank Novanek]

Kiss when I was young.

[Host 2]

Learning guitar too.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, yeah, When I was young, but like, you know, when James and I started playing in a band together, you know, I kind of. I rubbed off with, you know, I rubbed my influences off on him with Death and bands like that, you know, the Accused. And we were kind of rolling together at that point. And Ringworm was just a. It was an answer to the stuff that we were into at the time. Like, it was heavily influenced by it. I always say there's similarities between the. The styles with. With. I mean, to me, like Hate Breed early on. To me, just. If you listen to Satisfaction, it sounds like Agnostic Front cross with Bolt Thrower. I mean, you can't sit there and tell me that Last Breath doesn't sound like Bolt Thrower.

[Host 1]

I mean, you know what I mean? It is really. Right, so.

[Frank Novanek]

And Ringworm was just that. I mean, I was really into the youth group bands and New York hardcore and all that, but when those. When that second wave came through and they were doing crossover and all that inside out into another quick stand, it just didn't do anything for me. And I understand that people want to evolve as musicians and all that stuff, but it wasn't pissed. And that's why I love Youth of Today so much. I mean, they. They want. They're. They want to be your friend and they're pissed about it. You know what I mean? If you leave it. So I was angry. The lyrics are over the top angry.

[Host 2]

I say all the time can't close my eyes. Sounds more like what we would consider a power violence record today.

[Frank Novanek]

Sure.

[Host 2]

The whole time, you know.

[Frank Novanek]

Well, for us, when the. That first wave of Earache rolled through, we got Left Hand Path and Morbid Angel. I was already Headstone. I had a friend. The first time I was living in Florida, which I left Cleveland for in 1987. I lived in Gainesville for a year. And I befriended Pat from Hellwich, and he was like an older mentor to me. And he knew about all these bands because he was in it. That band was rolling at that point. He's like, you got to listen to more of an angel and Massacre and Death and all these bands. He had all the demos.

[Host 1]

So you bring that. You bring all that back to Cleveland.

[Host 2]

Aha.

[Frank Novanek]

I certainly did. And when we started that band, when we started Ringworm, we. We started as Force of Habit. There was a recorded version of a song on the Voice of Thousands compilation, which was put out by Dennis Ramsing, who did Conversion Records in California. And that's a compilation that has integrity and face value. And our earliest manned Force of Habit, which we just recorded the one song and that ended up. We kicked it kicked the two other guys out of the band and then we started Ringworm and it was. Ringworm was just us loving the New York hardcore the of the 80s and the early threat. The early, you know.

[Host 1]

All in E Standard.

[Frank Novanek]

All in E Standard and the demo.

[Host 1]

How did you do that?

[Frank Novanek]

I don't know. I really don't. We were wasted in the studio when we recorded the really really bombed.

[Host 1]

Tell me, tell Tell me Ki sent.

[Frank Novanek]

Us home the first day cuz we were so. James and I were so drunk we drank a fifth of whiskey and then went to the studio.

[Host 2]

Oh wow.

[Frank Novanek]

And they were having problems with that guitar. And that's why it sounds like that. That. That the guitar used on that record wasn't my record or wasn't my guitar. It was some. A friend's B.C. rich. I mean there were shows Ringworm played where I had a white BC Rich and bass player had a. We. I had a BC Rich that wasn't even mine. And the bass player had a white BC Rich warlock. And we were just up there looking like Mly Crue. You know what I mean?

[Host 1]

Standard.

[Frank Novanek]

And the second day we went to record the building that the studio Mars was on was on fire. And we couldn't get to the. Up to the. Take the elevators up to where the recording studio was. So the drummer got lost one day. Couldn't find the studio at all. So we didn't record that day either. It was crazy. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Did you have any run ins with Trent Reznor at this time?

[Frank Novanek]

We did not. I don't.

[Host 1]

Correct.

[Host 2]

I was gonna say the sampling. The.

[Frank Novanek]

Is it the Die Hard that's in the demo?

[Host 2]

In the demo.

[Frank Novanek]

And that is from Nightbreed, I believe.

[Host 2]

Oh, it's not.

[Frank Novanek]

I always thought. Who was that? That is the Simpsons guy, right? Danny Elfman. Is that.

[Host 2]

Is it the music?

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah. Yeah. Huh. So that was before the Promise and obviously. And that was. Mars had moved around at different spots. It was in different locations in Cleveland.

[Host 1]

So Promise was a curse recording session. So miraculous that it worked at all.

[Frank Novanek]

I mean we could barely play back then like we were kids.

[Host 1]

That's why it's so magical. The Promise may be the hardest music ever recorded in East Standard. Tell me about writing it. You're so young. This is your first real band, right?

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah. And we had a couple like dudes in the band that were like. Our bass player was like a. He's an old like LA punk lover guy and he's like. He was like friends with capitalist casualties in that whole scene. So he bought into what we were doing right away. He. Chris was. He loved the fact that the music that we were playing, because if you listen to it, it's kind of infesty at times.

[Host 1]

If I dare.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

The singing's pissed, of course, and it's great. It has grindcore in it, but it still has, like, hardcore stuff. And it's just so. And the drummer he was in, he's played in all kinds of bands. He's been in that. He was in a local band called Domestic Crisis and he has played in bands with the Mel Brothers and he.

[Host 1]

Held it down on record. Was he not part of the fifth of. Of Vodka or whatever before?

[Frank Novanek]

No, just James and I.

[Host 1]

Okay, perfect.

[Frank Novanek]

We used to practice in James's mother's house where we. He lived right in the bedroom. God bless her. She would get up and work two jobs and come home and sleep six hours and we'd be drinking. And Lord, that picture, if you have seen the picture in Original Promise, where we're all sitting at the table around all the beer and all that. That's James's bedroom.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Frank Novanek]

And we used to jam in there. And from there.

[Host 1]

Is there. Is there any blowback in 1991 to starting your record with There Is no God?

[Frank Novanek]

93, right?

[Host 1]

I think it was 91.

[Frank Novanek]

Oh, was. I think the demo was 91.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Either way, I don't know.

[Frank Novanek]

That's. James is doing. And he did whatever he want when it came to the lyrics and the. And the. The.

[Host 2]

What'd you think when you heard it?

[Frank Novanek]

I'm like, okay, yeah.

[Host 1]

I mean, you like Death.

[Frank Novanek]

That the intro. Funny enough, if you read the credits to the song, it says Stearns, Melnick and Novenic. And that's because that intro is from the band Die Hard, which was integrity before they were integrity.

[Host 1]

So. Wow.

[Frank Novanek]

And it was such a great. I thought it was so great. I always loved the band. I thought that Scott and Aaron wrote catchy stuff. Then I was like, this needs to be brought to the masses.

[Host 1]

This.

[Frank Novanek]

This is Die Hard. Yeah. Wow.

[Host 1]

Straight up.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah. It never made it on their record that they recorded.

[Host 1]

Who wrote.

[Frank Novanek]

Let me think.

[Host 1]

Is that a Frank?

[Frank Novanek]

I think that might have been that their stuff.

[Host 1]

Die Hard, dude. The Melnicks did it again.

[Frank Novanek]

Well, just Aaron.

[Host 1]

Aaron did it again. Unbelievable.

[Host 2]

One thing I. I admire about you when we were on tour is James and I would come and talk to you about whatever and a song would come up, an integrity song or whatever. Just something from from his arsenal. And he'd be like, oh, that's this. And he would show us.

[Host 1]

Isn't that the.

[Host 2]

You would be like, oh, that's this Kiss riff backwards.

[Host 1]

I've been curious about that.

[Frank Novanek]

We've all borrowed.

[Host 1]

We have to borrow. There's nothing. There's 12 notes, you know?

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah. Yes. And it's. And it's also. I look at it as, like, this is too good to not be. Because sometimes the songs become bigger than the originals. You know, it's like, yeah, there's a reason why that's awesome.

[Host 1]

100. And Kiss doesn't know that they're writing sometimes.

[Frank Novanek]

You know, I don't think anything I've ever written had been, like, a Kissed influence or like a.

[Host 1]

Why?

[Frank Novanek]

I don't know.

[Host 1]

Let's do it.

[Frank Novanek]

I think most of it was, you know, old thrash and old hardcore stuff, you know.

[Host 1]

Now here's what you do. You get some Kiss backwards.

[Frank Novanek]

You know what Kiss backwards is, right? Sick. There you go. Get to work. I know, right?

[Host 1]

How do you feel about the Promises lasting impact to this day? Like, did you. Were you proud of it at the time? And are you? Are. Are you. How do you feel now that people just still love this?

[Frank Novanek]

Did you know that I texted James a week ago and said, promise you get a re record.

[Host 2]

A re record.

[Frank Novanek]

Wow. Maybe with the guitar that's in tune. What do you guys think?

[Host 2]

Yeah, the drums are so, like, there's song.

[Frank Novanek]

I. I understand. There's records that should never be messed with.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

And I understand that there's bands that want to get out of contracts with labels or shut somebody out of the picture and. And all that, but come on, man. I think that that could become better.

[Host 2]

Second tattoo.

[Host 1]

I know a guy who could make it happen.

[Host 2]

Ever got was blind to faith.

[Frank Novanek]

That's insane.

[Host 1]

I got in trouble a lot. Yeah.

[Host 2]

I wore that there is no gun shirt.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

I got in trouble.

[Host 1]

That'll get you, man. Thanks. Thank you. James.

[Frank Novanek]

James. That's James. James got you in trouble.

[Host 1]

Why did it take so long for another record to happen?

[Frank Novanek]

Because I had left Ringworm to join Integrity.

[Host 1]

How did that Integrity killed Ringworm for a little while. It did, I think really couldn't coexist.

[Frank Novanek]

Ringworm didn't really do anything. And, you know, we just. We were focused on that, and I put my energy into that, and it was great because we were all friends. If you look on the first Integrity record, on the inside, it says, we would like to add that we hate every band in Cleveland except Ringworm and we thought that. I just thought that was crazy because I was like, you're dissing people you've known your whole life. We're some kids from the west side that don't really mesh with people from the east side. And we're like. These dudes, like, took us under their wing, you know what I mean? And, like, that was a big deal to me. So I had. We had that relationship with them. Even though our band kind of started one or two years after theirs did, we had that relationship with them, and so. And we were always hanging out as friends, just did everything together. You know, we had a scene together there. And so when it came time for me to join the band, it was great because I got to write. I got to write stuff for Integrity. And, you know, I was trusted. I mean, you know, I. Half the songs on Humanity as Devil were mine. Half the songs on Season of the Size of Days are mine. Matter of fact, the first four. The first four out of six songs on Seasons of the Size of Days are mine.

[Host 1]

So that means Orbital Teleplastic Emanation is yours.

[Frank Novanek]

I don't know what the name. He made weird names. No, no.

[Host 1]

Who's that?

[Frank Novanek]

Aaron dude.

[Host 1]

Hard Pit.

[Host 2]

What? What? Humanity is the double songs.

[Frank Novanek]

Psychological Warfare.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

My favorite.

[Host 1]

That's a genre. Good job.

[Host 2]

That's literally a.

[Frank Novanek]

What's the other one? Psychological Warfare and Abyss Annihilation.

[Host 2]

Oh, dude.

[Host 1]

Oh, I've st that riff 50 times.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, that record. That riff was on a Nuclear Assault record before it was.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Okay. So thank you. Nuclear Assault and Ringworm. I've taken that riff more than once. Convicted. You got to take it. Yeah. Let's see. Integrity. You joined around Systems Overload, right?

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, they were recording the record at that point.

[Host 1]

Did you play on it at all?

[Frank Novanek]

No, I don't play on that record.

[Host 1]

Any Gang Box.

[Frank Novanek]

I don't remember. Oh, yeah, yeah, because he was doing. I remember. I remember. I'll never forget this. We had, like, a bunch of dudes in there. It just didn't sound good. And Twin was making fun of us in the callback, like, through the winter. He's like, that's awful. You guys sound terrible. Like, Jim's in isolation or something like that, and he's like, so we definitely did Gang Box on that.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Frank Novanek]

I don't play on it because I had just joined at that point, so it was already. The recording's almost done.

[Host 1]

Was. Was Integrity a big touring machine in the mid-90s? No, never.

[Frank Novanek]

Neither of those bands were. I mean, we never did any tours the only thing we did was go to Europe. And when we did go to Europe in 95, we took ringworm. Ringworm hadn't played in a couple years. So we're like, let's just do Ringworm.

[Host 1]

Did you play?

[Frank Novanek]

Well, I played twice a night. Me and the drummer played twice a night. So it was a drummer from the Promise. Bob Ziger was playing in Integrity and Ringworm, and I was playing in both every night.

[Host 1]

Wow. So you didn't really.

[Frank Novanek]

Young man. Yeah.

[Host 2]

That is a young man's game.

[Host 1]

It is a young man's game, Trust me.

[Frank Novanek]

And it was in 95. There was a German band called Prophecy Rage that opened. We all lived on a bus together and. And then we went back Wild tour. Not like when we shared a bus with Fury of five. Ah.

[Host 1]

Tell me about sharing a bus with Fury.

[Frank Novanek]

Oh, my God.

[Host 2]

I think I know.

[Host 1]

Integrity Short. Straight a bus with Fury 5 or April.

[Frank Novanek]

Integrity 97.

[Host 1]

Yes.

[Frank Novanek]

We went back with Seasons in the Size of Days.

[Host 1]

Oh.

[Frank Novanek]

And it was Integrity, Fury 5. And that band Deviate. Who's Lawrence from my screen? That was his man.

[Host 1]

Shout Out Lawrence.

[Frank Novanek]

It was wild, man.

[Host 1]

One of my.

[Frank Novanek]

One of my favorite days ever was when we played this is Hardcore, and Fury was on it. And. And Jimmy had the. The old guys back in the van now. And I hadn't seen them since that tour.

[Host 2]

Oh, wow.

[Frank Novanek]

It was so great to see them. They're. They're. They're all older. They were. They had their kids there. So I had a. I wanted to reminisce, really, about that super bowl with the kids there and all that. I was like, all right, so do you remember this and that? Maniacs. Maniacs.

[Host 1]

One of the most underrated groups of musicians, I think.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, dude.

[Host 1]

They could all play. And the songs were incredible.

[Frank Novanek]

I just love those dudes. They do their own thing and they don't care what anybody thinks. Straight up.

[Host 1]

That's what it's all about.

[Frank Novanek]

Shout out to Fury 5.

[Host 1]

Always. What were you gonna say? Bu.

[Host 2]

You told us a story that we can't share. But I remember this tour.

[Frank Novanek]

People got beat up. Cars got flipped upside down in the middle of the night. People would come get up and go to work in the morning and their tires would be facing the sky and just.

[Host 2]

They don't do that.

[Frank Novanek]

Bands on the bus got beat up. People got beat up.

[Host 1]

Hey, you know, different times stuff.

[Frank Novanek]

And Wild. It was tough because it was seven weeks.

[Host 1]

Oh, my God.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

So it added up. Any charges pressed ever?

[Frank Novanek]

No.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Frank Novanek]

Good on.

[Host 1]

Statutes up. Don't Worry about it. We're good. Tell me about the name Frank Three Gun. Tell me the story.

[Frank Novanek]

God, I. I've been asked it so many times over years, and I just started giving fake answers.

[Host 1]

Let's hear the real one.

[Frank Novanek]

Well, integrity used to start a bunch of. Back in the day, as a lot of people know. You know what I mean? Well, I should say, you know, a couple people in the van maybe, but they. There were times when they would carry guns on the road. You know, there's. That's going on. You know, I've seen microphone cords get caught. I've seen people get shot at outside of Peabody's that were all involved in the show stuff. So they would carry guns sometimes and. And they were going to. They were going to Buffalo. And I was just riding along with them. And this was early on and nobody really knew how I was just because I wasn't in the van. So that's some beef with Snap Case at the show. I think that Dwid said something on stage about them. And the singer for Snapcase had jumped up on stage and been like, tony's not here to defend himself because he was saying something about Victory Records or something. And then it ended up being a standoff with those two. And then everybody knew the cops was coming. They're like, here you go. You. You take these. So then I had them all on me.

[Host 2]

Three of them.

[Frank Novanek]

Three of them. And I was like, God, if the cops come, I'm fucked. Right? I got. Who even knows what these guns are registered? Anybody, like, so that. And Zwid thought that was so funny, which I didn't think it was funny at all. So DWID started calling me that after that.

[Host 1]

So you weren't even. I had always heard. The story I had always heard was that during the confrontation, you had them all in your waistband.

[Frank Novanek]

I did. I had them. I had them all. I had like.

[Host 1]

But it was like a. Yo.

[Frank Novanek]

No, no, I didn't like that. Like, we had to start. We had to remember the starter coats from back then, like the 90s. Those are fucking hard.

[Host 2]

What team was it? What team were you wearing?

[Frank Novanek]

I think I had a black. A black. Remember when teams change their colors of black? Like when the Falcons change their colors black. I think I had like a black Falcons one. A lot of people were in a Raiders back then.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

Or whatever. I couldn't bring myself to wear the orange Broncos, but I was like that. Black is sharp. You know, we were trying to look cool back.

[Host 1]

Yeah, the Hornets one.

[Frank Novanek]

Still trying.

[Host 2]

Hornets one is Still.

[Frank Novanek]

Oh, Hornets.

[Host 2]

The bull. Bulls.

[Host 1]

One was iconic.

[Host 2]

You couldn't go anywhere, right. Chicago.

[Frank Novanek]

Right.

[Host 1]

So the three guns were. Were. Were you had. You didn't ask for them? No, they were like.

[Frank Novanek]

They're like. They're like. You're not in a band. People don't know who you are.

[Host 1]

You hold these, take these three guys.

[Frank Novanek]

So if they come and identify people, then you're gonna. You skedaddle.

[Host 1]

Wow.

[Frank Novanek]

That. And that's what the story is from.

[Host 1]

So have you hated the name the whole time? I mean, whatever, you know, it's still your name on Discogs.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, I don't know. Whatever. I. That's not who I am.

[Host 2]

No.

[Frank Novanek]

So, like, I try to be friends with people. You know what I mean? So, like, I now especially we're old men, but 55 this year.

[Host 1]

Congrats.

[Frank Novanek]

So that means I get discounts, right?

[Host 1]

100%.

[Frank Novanek]

Means I can live in a development that's a little cheaper, right?

[Host 1]

Dude, those are nice.

[Frank Novanek]

But, yeah, that's the story. I mean, I got sick of getting asked about it and I would say the most stupidest stuff. So when I was a baby, I was firing off guns out of the window and. Which would be normal at where I grew up in my. My development, my upbringing, but that's it. I'm sorry if I disappointed anybody. It's not that cool.

[Host 1]

I guess after talking to DWID for three hours and. And like, seeing his. The little within him.

[Frank Novanek]

Right.

[Host 1]

It really makes sense that he was like, hey, you're Frank three Gun now.

[Frank Novanek]

Oh, that was him back then. It's. I. I get a little disappointed when I see him sometimes because he's so normal. I'm like, well, you do start some trouble or something, like, you know what I mean? Like, it. These guys were characters, man. These guys, when we met all them, so. And they're great. Shout out to Dwitter. We speak all the time, so.

[Host 2]

Oh, good. Beautiful.

[Frank Novanek]

And I watched the interview. Was great.

[Host 2]

Oh, thank you.

[Host 1]

And when I texted you, I said.

[Frank Novanek]

Like, oh, yeah, good interview.

[Host 1]

Went great. Like, thanks for all this stuff. And you were like, well, I would hope it went great. They played a lot of songs I've written.

[Frank Novanek]

They still. I get excited when I see Ring because that's. You know, we just played with Ringworm Revolution Calling and, you know, I saw integrity not so long ago, I don't think. But it's humbling to see the songs so much still in the set.

[Host 2]

You know, they're the hits.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, it's cool.

[Host 2]

So then you go back to Ringworm.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah. After the Ringworm, all of us had left Integrity at that point, except for Dwyn. And I think we just had enough of the Shenanigans at that point because it, you know, and we don't. We weren't touring a lot, so it was a lot to be on a seven week tour. And we just decided that we didn't want to do it anymore. And I was like, God, I. I just had so much fun. I don't want to quit this. I wonder if we can make a record that the guitars are in tune and it sounds like Imagine. I mean, I. I love Don't Crucify Me, but the second Chromag's record to me is better than the first one.

[Host 2]

Best wishes.

[Host 1]

We love it. We're champions of it.

[Frank Novanek]

Thank you. So I love the first record, don't get me wrong. But like I wanted to do something that was like the Ringworm Promise, but had a more of that metallic edge and more double bass and had a more a drummer that was like that. So I brought Chris along, who actually played on Humanity Is the Devil and Season side stage. Now he's not pictured in Humanity's double was because we recorded Humanity Is a Devil with the Ringworm Promise drummer. And Ki was like, this isn't the guy for this really at all. This isn't Ringworm. It's not grind core. It can't be sloppy. It's got to be tight. And Bob's a great drummer for that kind of stuff. Yeah, there's no better guy for the job. But Bill wasn't having it, so. And all the pictures and stuff were taken at that point. We had to go. He had to go redo the. We had to go redo the record.

[Host 1]

So Bill made the call.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, pretty much.

[Host 1]

This isn't an engineer said, this guy's out of your band. You gotta need a new guy.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, I mean. And we react. We. We. We redid it with Chris and he's not pictured. Bob is, if you look at the pictures, for Humanity as a double. So he was like my guy. And so when we. He was in Integrity at the time that we all left the band. So I brought him with Ringworm and we had got to work, came up with our lineup.

[Host 1]

We had Matt.

[Frank Novanek]

Matt. We had Matt from Kamira in the band for a while. Matt De Vries was in the band for a while. And then Matt Sorg who actually ended up being like the guy, the man after I had left and joined Terror. So we were rolling with that for a while. And we did, obviously, Bertha's Pain. And then what was after that?

[Host 1]

Justice.

[Host 2]

Justice, baby.

[Frank Novanek]

It was.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Oh, yeah.

[Host 1]

Let's talk about Bertha's Pain.

[Frank Novanek]

Writing it.

[Host 2]

Well, for real quick.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Right before that is the split with Terror with House of Trinity or House of Hell on it. And that's my favorite Ringworm song. I think specifically that version.

[Frank Novanek]

It was like hardcore was changing for what we wanted to do. We. We were always trying to be like, kind of what the current bands were doing, but still, like, if you listen to House of the Hell, you know what that is? It's Dead at Birth by Death Threat.

[Host 2]

It is.

[Host 1]

That's like the same year, too.

[Host 2]

Wow.

[Frank Novanek]

Right?

[Host 2]

Wow. But then it goes.

[Host 1]

So you're. You're taking. You're. You're taking Inspo from your contemporaries, from our friends.

[Frank Novanek]

Well, and cj. CJ wrote a song on that record. CJ from Death Threat wrote a song on.

[Host 1]

On Birth Spain.

[Frank Novanek]

I. If it's not Birthday's Pain, it's Justice.

[Host 2]

Justice. Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, he did. And Sean Martin saves backups on that record.

[Host 2]

Really? I didn't know that.

[Host 1]

The Martin Shield, it's all a blur to me.

[Frank Novanek]

But Bertha's Pain, those songs, they. They came to me so easy. Writing those songs was so easy. I look back on the production, and I kind of kicked myself in the ass because I had a lot to do with the production. I think I get the production credit on it. It's there, but it's not. It's a little hollow. But like, God, I was like, it just a little hollow. I'd see what you did there. But I thought that we could have. Looking back on it now, it just doesn't slam like it should.

[Host 1]

And it's a.

[Frank Novanek]

It's a shame because to me, the songs on a record are fire.

[Host 1]

The songs are amazing. The production's amazing.

[Frank Novanek]

Okay. I think for the time.

[Host 1]

For the time. It's unbelievable.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And I. And things are so clean and crisp and perfect now. That imperfection stands out and is what is what lasts.

[Host 2]

Did you write the title track song? Bertha's Pick?

[Host 1]

God damn.

[Frank Novanek]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Host 1]

What a. What a breakdown.

[Frank Novanek]

I'll be playing that later.

[Host 2]

He played that weeks ago.

[Host 1]

Weeks ago.

[Frank Novanek]

Not with my man.

[Host 1]

So is there. Does Ringworm touring after Birth? Is Pain much?

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, we were doing some shows, but we never really got out west ever.

[Host 2]

And you played Chicago a lot.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, that was like. We were trying. We were trying there, you know, we had. We were on Victory.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

Jamie was the guy, man. He's been. There's Nobody that's helped my career out more than him ever. And he was behind the scenes booking shows for us. Go here and play. With all that warrants sworn out of me. You're here Saturday. All right, Go play here. We didn't have an agent. Jamie was doing the stuff for us.

[Host 1]

Justin.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah. And he put out this plate with Coldest Life on Stillborn, if you remember.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Frank Novanek]

And, you know, I. I mean, those. Jamie and Sean were two of my best friends. Because if you go back to integrity, we did the split with. With integrity. Hate.

[Host 1]

Re.

[Frank Novanek]

Split. Like, the kids bring that to the meet and greeting. They have a sign it, and I always flip it over, and it's the pitcher in the back is me jumping in there with the Nike Vandals on. But it's integrity and Jamie doing this. And I always ask the kids, I go, do you know who that is? And they're like, no. Who is that? They don't. They never even know. I go, that's. That's me. I go, integrity is my old man. Like, they. Most of them don't even know. So we've had that relationship.

[Host 1]

Yes. Destroy everything, pretty much.

[Frank Novanek]

But we've had that relationship with them since. Since back then. I mean, he was calling us. I remember all the time. And, like, we want to do a split with you guys. We want you to come to Connecticut and play can we get a Cleveland show? And all that. We had relations. Yes. We had relationships since back then.

[Host 1]

So was he trying to poach you right away?

[Frank Novanek]

No.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Frank Novanek]

No, not at all. Not at all. We just. We just became boys. Like, the first time. Sean. Sean always talks about the first time that he and I hung out. It was when they were on tour with Motorhead and Dropkick Murphy's. He's like, do you remember the first time we had Al. You came to the show, you were bombed. You had, like, a Pit Boss 2000 coat on. We were back.

[Host 1]

I would remember that. Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

He's like. He's like. We were backstage, and you were just showed up wasted. You just had weed, and we were smoking it, right. Probably where we shouldn't have been. And he's like, you. You were like. We were just, like, backstage at, like, the Odeon in Cleveland. And you're like, hey, I'll be right back. I gotta piss. And then you just turned around and pissed all over the place. And then you're like, all right.

[Host 1]

And that's Sean's.

[Frank Novanek]

Sean was saying, like, ye. And we, like. We've been friends for, like. I mean, He. He. He was pretty sole responsible for me for getting an A. Him and Jamie, you know, I knew Matt and Chris, but they, you know, they. They were the ones that were.

[Host 1]

That makes sense. They just needed a kindred spirit they could hang out with.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 1]

But before that.

[Host 2]

Before. And. And actually, we need to go back in time a little bit because we forgot something that I very remiss. Tell me Integrity. Played Warp Tour.

[Frank Novanek]

Oh, yes. In 95.

[Host 2]

And there is one of the most iconic picks of all time where you're playing a blue studio.

[Frank Novanek]

Yes.

[Host 2]

Blue Les Paul.

[Frank Novanek]

Yep.

[Host 2]

And you're all jumping. You're posi. Topped out of your mind.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah. I look like Larry Bird or something, right?

[Host 1]

Oh, yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

My head's Photoshopped in that photo. It's the only thing that didn't come out in that photo. Right.

[Host 2]

Oh, are you blurry?

[Frank Novanek]

And if you look in the picture.

[Host 2]

Huh.

[Host 1]

That's early Photoshop.

[Frank Novanek]

I want to tell you guys something awesome about that picture, please. Quicksand and L7 played that show, and if you look at the picture, there's somebody sitting in a chair on my side of the stage with a white shirt on and a black backpack. And that is Walter from Quicksand. He's in the picture.

[Host 2]

Wow.

[Frank Novanek]

Wow.

[Host 2]

That's hard.

[Host 1]

We'll ask him about it tomorrow.

[Frank Novanek]

We were. The deadliner was after everybody.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Oh, the deadline.

[Host 1]

Classic Warp Tour bit.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

The Warp Tour was brand new then.

[Host 2]

I think, which is crazy because it's daylight out in the picture.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, it still was daylight. There was a lot of bands on it. It was. It wasn't a huge thing, I don't think.

[Host 2]

Then was that on the. The lake in Cleveland, on the river.

[Frank Novanek]

Nautica. Venue called Nautica. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Was the set good for this photo to be so legendary?

[Frank Novanek]

There's a video. There's. I think there's full video of it. Yeah, the show was great.

[Host 2]

There's also full video of Bad Brains playing that one.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And it's awesome. They play House of Suffering and stuff. It's that era. It's sick.

[Host 1]

Do you remember an argument you got into with Wayne on the tour we did about Systems End Seasons. Systems Overload. End Seasons.

[Frank Novanek]

I'm sure it was late. I'm sure it was drinking a boat.

[Host 1]

It was a heated debate about these two records, and I was. Wanted to be involved so bad. I sat there and I listened, and I think Wayne was saying, I don't know, man. I think. I think Systems is better. And you were like, it's not here's why?

[Frank Novanek]

Well, I. My problem with all that is I don't think it's the case now. And I think Dwight would even agree with this because he talks about it a lot. Is at the time Seasons was slept on big time. I think it had a lot to do with the drastic change of how we looked on the back of the one record. So the completely dark. I mean, that was the darkest record the band ever made. Ever made at that point.

[Host 1]

No name, no logo on that.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

So I think it's still the most underrated, but one of. One of the best.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah. I mean, great job. I love all the albums, but I'm partial because I was involved in the writing process on that. I love Systems of Willow.

[Host 1]

Do you have a favorite integrity record?

[Frank Novanek]

Those who Fear Tomorrow.

[Host 1]

That's a very Sean Martin saying Satisfaction. His favorite answer.

[Frank Novanek]

Well, it was a golden time in Cleveland when that came out. It was just magical. It really was. And it's like the shows, the aura around the band, the mystique of. Of. Because we weren't. Dude always said back then, we didn't start this band to be buddy buddies with all these other bands out here like everybody else is doing.

[Host 1]

He was.

[Frank Novanek]

And you're all fool hater. You're all fools forever believing in us. He said, you say that all the time. So like, you know, it was negative, man.

[Host 2]

And.

[Frank Novanek]

But people bought into it and they just, you know, it was part of the aura of the band. And you know, we were always kind of. I wouldn't say anti scene, but it was like we were always doing our own thing there. And for a little shitty town compared to near big coast towns, we were making a lot of noise.

[Host 2]

You know, this isn't really your department, but both DWYD and Furnace do. We're talking weird like voices and shit. Was that just. What do you call that? Colin parallel thinking or was that something. I was like, oh, we heard that. That's cool. Let's do that.

[Frank Novanek]

I don't know, to be honest with.

[Host 2]

You, because that's such a Cleveland thing.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

You know, you.

[Frank Novanek]

It's, it's. It's crazy because the two bands have such a Cleveland sound, but it would just. I mean, I can't even sit here and tell you that that, that, that integrity had an influence. I was just. I just think it's a sound of the upbringing and the surroundings and that's the kind of music that we were brought up on. And this is what came out, you know, product of your environment. Because, you know, I. I try to write songs for other bands that don't play in that style, obviously. And they don't. It has. It's got the Cleveland trademark over it. It doesn't really work, you know.

[Host 1]

So pardon this interruption. You know, as always, we hate to interrupt this for even a second, but a minute will do. Because we got to talk to you about something very important.

[Frank Novanek]

We really do.

[Host 2]

One of our favorite things in the world is merchandise. Specifically vintage merchandise.

[Host 1]

That's right. Whether it's Ringworm or Integrity or Hate Brie, maybe even Terror, depending on who you ask and who this week's guest is. You can find all that and more at Mills Vintage.

[Host 2]

That's right, baby. You guys, you've saw the Speed episode, you saw the Chappelle Lacy episode. We went to Varsity in Los Angeles. We went into the back, we visited our friend Vic.

[Host 1]

You browse through everything he's got. He has the best shirts you've ever seen. Shirts you see on guys in 30, 40 year old videos. And you go, how did they. Where does that from? How did they get that? Vic's got it. He'll tell you all about it. He's got the measurements in. You know exactly what will fit your body. That's. That's how it works.

[Host 2]

You know, my first pickup was a beautiful. Into another long sleeve that is actually in the wash right now. Fits me like a dream. I couldn't be happier.

[Host 1]

Good for you, man. And you can get all this and more with code hard lore. You're going to get 10% off your order. And listen, listen, the vintage market is out of control. We apologize for that. But we're doing what we can to give back with this. 10% off.

[Frank Novanek]

There we go.

[Host 1]

And he also wants your stuff. So send him a message, show him what you got. He may just trade it for you straight up, maybe. So if something doesn't fit you, you know, you got some heat, hit him up, send him a message. Mills Vintage, they'll give you a trade.

[Host 2]

He also just opened up a brand new location in New York. New York, the city so nice they named it twice.

[Host 1]

So if you're in LA or New York, stop by, drop your stuff off, get some money, get some. Get some gear. Hoodies, shirts, hats, Hardcore metal punk. He has a. He has a Kurosawa crew neck right now. It's unbelievable. It didn't fit me. So you're lucky. Give it a shot. I also just traded him a bunch of stuff. So you may pop, you may look through the store and see a bunch of stuff. You seen Me wearing on the show before. So walk or run don't walk over to Mills Vintage USA use code HARD LORE, get 10% off and get some of the coolest shit ever back to the episode.

[Host 2]

So justice replaced by Revenge, which was actually. I had heard Ringworm as a young man. I was like, oh, that's cool. Little metal for me. I was very youth crew at that time. Justice was the one that like, clicked for me. It had the production. It did, it had the songs, it.

[Host 1]

Had Sick the Monster. Breakdown in the opening track.

[Host 2]

Unbelievable. Breakdown in the opening track. Crazy drummer with the busiest feet. Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

Third Ringworm record. Third drummer.

[Host 1]

Wow.

[Host 2]

Who was that guy?

[Frank Novanek]

His name was Danny. He played in Pit Boss 2000. He plays on those records, I think.

[Host 2]

Yeah, he was a double.

[Frank Novanek]

One take. I go, you're done? Yeah.

[Host 2]

Are you serious?

[Frank Novanek]

The whole record like that.

[Host 2]

And he obviously did the. The split. The Terror split too, because that's all. The drum fills are the same. Please tell me about this record.

[Frank Novanek]

I don't like the opening song. What do you mean? The only time in my life I've written a song for people. Homage to ever.

[Host 2]

Look at that.

[Host 1]

That was it. That was the goal.

[Frank Novanek]

Well, I mean, Ringworm started so early. There wasn't mosh parts and breakdowns, like karate, dancing and all this.

[Host 1]

You know, you sound just like.

[Host 2]

Which when we.

[Frank Novanek]

Well, there wasn't though. I mean, at that time, I mean, I. I saw crazy. I wanna. I went out on a tour as a roadie with instead Believe of all bands, like in 90 and. And we were. I was out with Face Value and they were opening for them Shout out to Urban. Shout out to Face Value. We were in Philly and they had a show there and I think there were like some DMS dudes or something from New York and they were mauling people in the pit with that kind of dancing. And I was like, what the hell was that?

[Host 1]

That was your first time.

[Frank Novanek]

We never saw anything like that in our life. And they're like, oh, those are just dudes down here from New York. That's just how they dance or whatever. And everyone was terrified to do anything at that show. And so I was like, I guess that that kind of style was around at that point, but it was off our radar, you know, I wasn't making songs for that. Like, we didn't care, like. And it kind of sucks because when you would play the shows, you're not going to have that kind of reaction. So people. A lot of times people don't know what to do. When they're watching Ringworm. You know what I mean?

[Host 2]

Yeah. When we toured with ringworm in 2018, every time they would start that song, he would say, this one's for all.

[Host 1]

You karate guys out there.

[Frank Novanek]

Well, sure, because it's like they're. It's like it's felt like people definitely got love for the band. Yeah. What's the joke? It's your favorite band's favorite band or whatever. So like big time, they. You know, they. It feels like people were waiting around for something like that. And that song was the fastest song I ever wrote for the band ever. No, not fast, speed wise.

[Host 1]

Oh.

[Frank Novanek]

I wrote it in practice in two minutes.

[Host 1]

Wow.

[Frank Novanek]

I was like that. To me. The transition's so weird though, where it goes from the fast to the break to where that riff comes out of nowhere in the middle.

[Host 1]

You're out of your mind. You're out of your mind.

[Host 2]

Did you write the acoustic song Whiskey Drunk?

[Frank Novanek]

No, but I told Matt that I wanted. I said I want a Segway song that's an acoustic guitar. Before you got. Before you do. Cuz I wrote all these songs, you know what I mean? For the most part, especially up until that record. And I had everything planned out in my head. I wanted to it to be done, the drums and everything. So when we were going forward on that, I was like, all right, the production has to be good. Maybe we'll have a moss part, who knows? You know what I mean? Or like so like. But it still has to sound like Ringworm. We can have a slow song too. You know what I mean? Like we can have a grinder like the song you're talking about. What it's called. What? God, yeah.

[Host 1]

Banger.

[Frank Novanek]

But I wanted to. Matt was such a great player that I wanted to showcase him more than his blazing solos.

[Host 2]

Sure.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And which the solos in Whiskey Drunk sound very. Integrity.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah. It's just that. It's just our upbringing that's just.

[Host 1]

Huh?

[Frank Novanek]

That. No, no, it's just our upbringing in that town straight into.

[Host 2]

That is. That blew my little like 18 year old brain to pieces. To smithereens. I couldn't believe that song.

[Frank Novanek]

You're too kind.

[Host 2]

It's just facts, just honest.

[Host 1]

That's what it is. How do you feel about that? Was that like hearing that production and like finally hearing Ringworm in this context with the guitars tuned and a drummer doing all that crazy? Are you. Are you kind of like, damn, Ringworm has finally done it to me.

[Frank Novanek]

I just was like, this is a complete album.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And I Hate the first song.

[Frank Novanek]

And I know, I mean, it's all good. People love the song, so that's all that matters. But I just wish the other records had that kind of polish.

[Host 2]

Yeah, sure.

[Frank Novanek]

I mean, they had that. That. The balls. You're like shaking your head.

[Host 1]

You're like, no, they're yours, they're yours. What am I going to say? But I'm so glad they don't.

[Host 2]

I will say too objectively, this record was like a rebirth of the band big time. Because I'm able. My. I'm young. I want to hear production at that time. I want. I was looking for that, you know, and it. It hit perfect.

[Host 1]

So, Frank, between Bertha's Pain and Justice, you joined a little band called Terror.

[Frank Novanek]

That was between those times was okay because you did.

[Host 1]

What were you involved with one. With the Underdogs at all?

[Frank Novanek]

No, nothing. So no.

[Host 1]

Justice is 2005. Did you join Terror after 2005?

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, they were tracking already, I think. I think. Scott. Yeah.

[Host 1]

What were the underdogs? 2004. So.

[Frank Novanek]

Oh, oh.

[Host 1]

When did you join terror?

[Frank Novanek]

I don't remember. 2003, 2000. So yeah, yeah, I played the Whiskey with them. I think my first show with them was at the Whiskey, I think. Who was in the band? Todd, right? Yeah, yeah, Todd. Yep. And I. I think my first show with them was at the Whiskey. It was 2003, 2004.

[Host 1]

How did you join Terror? How did that happen?

[Frank Novanek]

So Scott's one of my best friends since we're young. We used to, you know, Buffalo and Cleveland are three hours apart only, and we would see each other in Erie, which is directly in between the two. Or he would come. Come to shows in Cleveland. I would be at shows in Buffalo. And he just became. He was such a great dude and he was into this stuff like I was. And you know, we saw each other all the time and we were friends and, you know, we just. We hit it off right out of the gate and he was like my guy up in Buffalo. And we've been. We were friends through all that time. So he said they were looking for somebody to be in the band. And he asked me, where did you.

[Host 1]

Live at the time?

[Frank Novanek]

Cleveland.

[Host 1]

That never changed. Until never.

[Frank Novanek]

I never left. I never. No, I've only lived in Cleveland, Florida in my life. That's it.

[Host 1]

I saw Nick Jet refer to you as his cousin one time online.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Is that true? No, non. Biological. No, more like a cuz.

[Frank Novanek]

A cousin out there named Jeff that I hang out with. Who was Jeff Jet? Jeff Gibbons. Oh, yeah. Jeff is your cousin because Jeff Cubans. Yeah.

[Host 1]

What the.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

That's crazy. So. So he was okay.

[Frank Novanek]

Cousin by Nick was my guy. We were. Listen, I had.

[Host 1]

Jeff was your cousin. For real?

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah. I had so much fun.

[Host 1]

Wings, beer, sports.

[Frank Novanek]

Right? Oh, I had so much fun with Nick when I was out there because I would stay at his parents house in the Valley in Granada Hills. So like he was stuck with me all the time. And we would be out goofing off all the time. You know, we'd be doing our thing and hanging out with Dre and these dudes and Martine and all that. Like, I had a blast hanging out with these dudes. I really did.

[Host 1]

How long were you in ter?

[Frank Novanek]

A couple years. That's it.

[Host 2]

So Vogel asked you. You've remained his or he's remained your beer tech to this day.

[Frank Novanek]

He. He does he. Nobody does it better.

[Host 1]

What does he do?

[Frank Novanek]

Like the dlc.

[Host 1]

Like Stone Cold's time?

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, pretty much. Like he knows the parts in the songs where I can drink and where I don't play or what I'm one stringing it. So it's pretty awesome. It's just. He's kind out of that game now though, so it's not as fun when he's not doing it, but.

[Host 1]

Did you write any music with ter?

[Frank Novanek]

I wrote a bunch of songs, but they never ended up using them. Not really too. No. Interesting. Those show those song. Those songs should.

[Host 1]

We might have to cut this and take them songs. Tell me about these songs.

[Frank Novanek]

Those songs are on the Ice Pick record. Oh, those songs are on. What's the Ringworm record after that?

[Host 1]

Venomous Grand.

[Frank Novanek]

I have two songs on that record.

[Host 1]

I know.

[Frank Novanek]

And that's one of them. Whoa, really?

[Host 1]

Written for Terror.

[Frank Novanek]

Some of the riffs in that song from there. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Is one of them Suicidal Visions?

[Frank Novanek]

I don't know the names.

[Host 1]

Now that you say that there's a song, I think it's on Venomous Grand Design with the breakdown goes. Was that you? Sounds like Terror.

[Frank Novanek]

That. Yeah, I wrote that. And that is me ripping off the band. Tad.

[Host 1]

Who the is Tad?

[Frank Novanek]

They're one of the best grunge bands from all time. Dad. Tad from Seattle. This thing is 400 pound guy like.

[Host 1]

Oh, thank God.

[Frank Novanek]

You gotta listen to them. They're great. Tad. Tad. They have a record called Inhaler that is just heaviest you ever heard.

[Host 2]

Really?

[Frank Novanek]

All right. Gnarly.

[Host 1]

I can't believe you wrote that song for Terror. But now this part makes so much.

[Frank Novanek]

Well, I don't know if that Part was in that song. But you wrote that it might have been. What? They didn't use what.

[Host 1]

What Ice Picks on that riff that.

[Frank Novanek]

That riff is on. These morons didn't even converse with each other or me. And the riff is on both the records. It's on the Ringworm record and it's on the Ice Pick record.

[Host 1]

Perfect. So perfect.

[Frank Novanek]

Isn't that funny?

[Host 1]

Yeah. So that's happened before, though, you know?

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah. No, that's cool.

[Host 1]

Some 41, no warning type thing. Same thing.

[Host 2]

So then as told by Scott, you got the call.

[Frank Novanek]

The violence at those shows back then, I, like, people would leave on stretchers and like, people would just be. People would get beat down every show. Like we played. I remember the booking agent calling every day. What happened last night? What happened last night? What happened last night?

[Host 1]

And how did you feel about that at the time?

[Frank Novanek]

I just was part of it. I was a part. I was. I was not. I wasn't. I wasn't the fighter. Right, right, right. But when you. But when it's your friends that are on the guest list that are, or maybe even the bands that you have opening the shows, doing this stuff, it was crazy. Two years, man. It was wild stuff. And we were touring all over the place. But I didn't have my together for them. I didn't. And I love Scott to death. I'll jump in front of a train for that. I would. I love him to death and he knows that. But I just. I feel like it was a wake up call for me to be like, all right, you're trying to do this for real. Like, I almost missed the very first show because I was out being a. All night, you know, they were flying from Japan. They were on tour with Hate Breed. We were on tour with Hate Breed. Ringworm did the first week and Tara was showing up and doing the next three weeks and taking their place. And what's the best Stayed in my. I was supposed to get on the apry bus because I was riding on it anyway and go to Ottawa. And I wasn't in Ottawa. I stayed in Montreal and I was wasted. And he. They were flying from Japan, so they're shot. This dude's like, let's get this dude in the van. And next thing you know, Jamie's calling him going, frank's not with us. You better figure out what the going on. He's like, yeah, that's really funny to do to me when I. He's like, I'm serious. So he had to like, call kids, like Montreal kids, and have them drive me to Ottawa to the show. So already out of the gate. Yeah. And he was just screaming at my ass. I remember. And I was like, you know, it just wasn't. And he rightfully should have been. Yes. I mean, like, I missed the whole European tour. They had to go over there as a four piece. And you're talking about all these. How did you do that? I had passport issue. And then I had an incident where obviously this is my fall, but my son got really sick with pneumonia. We didn't know if he's going to make it or not. And I miss shows then. So, like, you know. And this is a two year window.

[Host 2]

Sure, sure.

[Frank Novanek]

I'm completely dragging the band on. I felt at that point we had a lot of fun. I thought it was great. I love those dudes. I love the opportunity. I love Nick. I got to meet Carl. I got to meet so many cool people in California and people lifelong friends. But at the end, these dudes for years were talking about me being in Hate Breed for years. Way before I was in terror.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

Sean used to say all the time, I'm gonna get you in this band. I'm gonna get you in this band. And I was ready to go back to regular work, to be honest with you. Wow. And I was like, these dudes were calling, like, all right, you ready to. You ready to be in the band now? And they didn't have any, you know, they. They were a five piece with Boulder and then they were four piece. Obviously they were four pieces forever.

[Host 1]

For a long time they were a.

[Frank Novanek]

Four piece Sunrise Brutality. And they wanted to add another guitar player for supremacy. And there was no auditions or nobody, so.

[Host 1]

But what's the dynamic like in Hate right away when you join, are you like, I gotta not do all that, or is it party?

[Frank Novanek]

I was shook.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Frank Novanek]

This is like level up, leveling up. They're about to be on main stage. Oz Fest. Yeah. Not the side stage. Yeah. Like, we're sandwiched in between Lacuna Coil and Disturbed. Or Avenged. Avenged. So I'm like. I was just questioning myself. I was ready for this or not.

[Host 2]

Was that so.

[Frank Novanek]

I think that that made. The fact that I was like, nervous about everything made me get my together, you know what I mean? As much as Jamie and I and Sean were. And Jamie was another one like. Like Scott, that was my drinking buddy too. You know what I mean? And we would get after it. They'd call me. Be like, what are you doing? We're out with Slayer. You want to fly out and ride the bus for a week and drink Jagermeister every day. I'm like, yep, I'm on a plane. They're like, all right, we'll fly you out. And it was just bad. Like, it's such a good thing that Jamie doesn't drink anymore. Yeah, he has way too much stuff to be going on.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

Craziness.

[Host 2]

Was that your first tour with Haybreed Ozfest?

[Frank Novanek]

No, I think we went to Europe. We had shows with corn right out of the gate and all that. My first show with Hatebreed, though, they wanted a warm up show to break me in. And we played at the LNG in Connecticut.

[Host 1]

Nice local gig. CT hero now.

[Frank Novanek]

You know what's funny about that is I remember about the show, like, Wayne, who is like the man. Wayne's a fucking great player and he's an original member of the band.

[Host 1]

Taught Sean how to palm you.

[Frank Novanek]

And listen, he. He was right in front of me, critiquing the shit out of me the whole time. Making it worse. I was like, this guy, because I knew he could play. I knew he was. I'm like, yeah, he's down there critiquing this.

[Host 1]

Got the under the knife guy standing.

[Frank Novanek]

In front of him.

[Host 1]

What's the dynamic in the band like today?

[Frank Novanek]

As far as what? As far as what?

[Host 1]

Yeah, I mean, 20 years in Hatebreed, it's just fun.

[Frank Novanek]

We just have fun now because we don't. We don't tour as much as we used to. I'm excited when we see the guys.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

You know, when we see each other and we just joke and have a good time. You know what I mean? We, you know, we're just, as Matt says, walking off into the sunset, I guess. You know, when you get to be in your 50s and you're doing this and you're lucky enough to have a career in music this long, in this kind of music, you count the blessings. You know what I mean? Like, Hate Breed's been on a tour of us for 30 years or what, 25 years or whatever, and. And people are still coming to see the band play. And, you know, we're fortunate enough to be in both scenes, kind of, you know, in the metal scene and a hardcore scene, and everybody, you know, seems to give us respect in both those. And that's obviously, that's the enormous success of the band. Had a lot to do with the band breaking into the metal scene.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

Things like touring with Slayer, Slipknot, Jamie Hosta, Headbangers Ball, all these things. Right. You know, they had a Grammy nomination back in 2004 and. And all, you know, sound movie soundtracks and all that stuff that created what it is. So I think now it's all about smart decisions and steering the boat in the right place, the right direction, you know.

[Host 2]

Hate Breed in the US I'm familiar with Hate Breed in Europe is one of the craziest things I've ever seen. In 2016, harmsway and hate Read played Hellfest in France. We were on the little. The Little stage, the War Zone stage.

[Host 1]

Oh, same. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Hey, Breed was main stage at like 3:30 in the afternoon. And I watched. I was on your side. We got on stage and we just watched you guys play to the biggest crowd I've ever seen. From that point of view, what. How do you compare and how do you view, like, Europe is Europe? Like, yeah, we're going back to Europe. Is Europe different? Is Europe something that you look forward to or are you happy? Are you happier in the States?

[Frank Novanek]

Well, I just, I think it's funny because like, a lot of people like, like my neighbors that know what I do or they find footage online or, or like people in my family are like, they love that music over there. Everybody always says that they love that music over there. They love it everywhere. You know what I mean? If we're playing in front of 50,000 people, we're opening for huge bands. You know what I mean? Sure. So as fun as those shows are, and I enjoy, enjoy those probably more, just because at this point in the career, you're breathing fresh air into the balloon by doing stuff like that, you're not playing in front of all Hate Pre fans and preaching to the converted. But we're lucky enough to go and play just, you know, 6, 700 people the next night in some small town in Germany and steamroll that, you know, I think it's great that we have those options, but as far as Europe's concerned, I mean, we all know that it takes a lot to win them over over there, but unless you really let them down, they're there till their life was over.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Big time.

[Host 1]

Give them something like destroy everything. Well, late in your career, dude, they're really around.

[Host 2]

I'm not even joking. I had, I heard 20,000 people saying, I won't be hurt. Like during the. It was crazy. First. Yeah, it was like the first time I'd seen that, you know? Yeah. Do you got a favorite? One of the big fests over there.

[Frank Novanek]

It'S hard to compete with Hell Fest, isn't it?

[Host 2]

It's so sick.

[Frank Novanek]

I mean, it's like, all right, let's go watch the purple. All right, let's go watch Napalm Death. Yeah, all right, let's go.

[Host 1]

You know what I mean?

[Frank Novanek]

How fun is that?

[Host 2]

Let's hit catering real quick.

[Host 1]

Hit catering with Lemmy, watch him eat real quick.

[Frank Novanek]

And they'll go watch.

[Host 1]

Then watch him play one of his little last sets ever, you know. One of the craziest things, you know. Tour highlights throughout the years, direct support.

[Frank Novanek]

For Kiss at Grass Pop, above Kill Switch, Wow. Us, then them.

[Host 2]

It was Gay Breed Kiss.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Now, had you already been on the Kiss cruises and such by this time?

[Frank Novanek]

No, they weren't happening at that point. They came right after that do so.

[Host 1]

But you've been in the Kiss army for so long.

[Frank Novanek]

Yes.

[Host 1]

Had you met any of the band prior to Direct being direct support for them?

[Frank Novanek]

I don't remember at that.

[Host 1]

Because you're doing.

[Frank Novanek]

Meet some other. Maybe some other people that were in the band. Maybe like Bruce or. I don't know. I just remember our tour manager at the time was Boz, and he was real close with Snake Sabo from Skid Row, who is managed by Doc McGee, who manages Kiss. So I knew that he knew him. So when I found out we were playing with Kiss, I go, you know what you got to do, right? Yeah, we have to meet them, we have to get our picture with them. Okay, I'll talk to Snake. All right. We got it all sorted out. And the day of the show rolls around, right? And we're on at like 7 or something, or. And they're on it like, 8:30. And he comes in, we're there early, obviously. And he comes in, he's like, I got it all set up. We're gonna go in and get our pictures with them at five. And I look at him, I go, no, we're not. He goes, what do you mean? I go, they're not going to have the stuff on at five o' clock in the afternoon. I was like, you better go back and figure out what we're gonna go do this. Because we have to meet them with the on. Yeah, all right, all right. So he goes. He's like, all right. As soon as you're off stage, we got to go into their world.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

And there they were, like, way taller than us because they had the boots on.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

And the coolest part about it, that.

[Host 1]

Was the moment of your life so far, right?

[Frank Novanek]

That and getting on stage and playing with Blue Cole twice.

[Host 1]

Come on.

[Frank Novanek]

But we. We went back there and One of the coolest parts about it was. I know that happens for them all the time, especially in festivals. Oh, the band wants to picture with Kiss.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

You know, and Gina always. And Gina. Paul always joked, they're like, we. When we go to Europe, we place extreme metal festivals. You know, Gene and I were talking about Cradle of Filth before. That's a whole nother story. How insane is that? But they always say stuff like that. They're always like, when we go play with, you know, Gorgots or whatever. They're always. Because they're always like, oh, we play. Kids knows Gorgas. They're like, we play with these death metal bands over there, and everybody's got their death metal paint on and they're in all their spikes. And then next thing you know, we're headlining and they're all out there singing. I was made. That's their joke that they make 100. So the point.

[Host 1]

Bill Steers out there crying.

[Frank Novanek]

Exactly. So the point I was trying to make was they. I'm sure they meet all these bands that maybe that's not their favorite band or just all these people. But I had a Paul Stanley tattoo at the time, and it was before I had the other three. And it was cool to go back there and have him sign my arm and show him that and be like, all right.

[Host 1]

No, I'm real.

[Frank Novanek]

Like, I'm real. Yeah, I'm real.

[Host 1]

So when are you. When you're on the KISS Navy cruises after this and all that.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Or is it a dynamic where, you know, they're like, hey, Frank, good to see you, man.

[Frank Novanek]

I actually had a picture. We have that classic picture of us together. Yeah, It's Kits and Hate Breed from the show. And another thing that happened that night was their manager, Bill, a coin that made them big in the 70s. He was dying that night that we were both playing that show at Grass Pop back home. Now he wasn't managing the band anymore, but lifelong friend dying. And so we could tell. We're like, man, they are really like, it's sommer back there. Were like, sums up like, they weren't. They're getting ready to go kill it. And they were like, yeah. And it wasn't just like, oh, you know, we're too good for guys. You could tell something was up with those. The whole gist of it and all that. And that was their last show in Europe, and that was our last show in Europe. So we were going home. They were going to the funeral and all that and dealing with all that. And and when I had met Gene years later, I had that picture and I said, this is when we were direct support for your craftspot festival. When was this? He says, and I said to your whatever. I go, I don't want to bring anything bad up. But I was like, this was the last year, last showing. And it was the night that bullet coin died. Glasses come down and he looks dead eye at me and goes, you know, it's ashamed about Bill. He didn't. He was scared of doctors and he didn't want to go see them. And you know, he. He probably could have lived a lot longer. But I was like, whoa. It was like a real ass moment. And I was like, this dude's getting like. Because he's always joking around.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

He's like me. He walks around and punches people in the dick and does like that. My friend Kent does who I got he. He shout out to Kent from Cleveland. I got him a job. Sinclair legend. I got him. His first job was doing merch for Terrell. I was like, I know this kid. He's good. He's. He doesn't party. He's gonna be good. Whatever. He took the merch thing and ran with it.

[Host 2]

And he.

[Frank Novanek]

He went on to do rancid and shinedown and amount of market. He hits me one day. He's like, I got it. I'm doing kiss. I was like, I gotta know everything. Everything I gotta know.

[Host 2]

I need to give me the dossier.

[Frank Novanek]

Like, I need to know numbers, I need to know who hangs, whatever. So he told me his first day that he was doing merch for them. He was up in the trailer with about 40, 50 boxes in there, moving them around, doing his thing. And I guess Gene was walking around like he does, and he saw Kentucky in the trailer. Never seen him before in his life. Was like, oh, that's our trailer with KISS on box. That must be our merch guy. Ken spent over ass facing the open end. And Jean just comes up behind him, doesn't say anything, grabs him around the waist and was like. And walks away. And he told me about that. I was like, that's the greatest thing ever that could happen to you in your life.

[Host 1]

Nobody will ever believe it. Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

So it was just so funny. And get into that world, that'll get you in trouble.

[Host 2]

Are there ranks in the KISS army?

[Frank Novanek]

There's ranks in the KISS Navy.

[Host 2]

So you accumulate also every time you go on the cruise.

[Frank Novanek]

Like a. You're like a petty officer, you're a sailor, you're a lieutenant, you're an admiral. And you're a senior fleet admiral. Well, they don't do the cruise anymore.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Frank Novanek]

Funny part about it is the Lamb of God cruise took over to Kiss cruise.

[Host 1]

Oh, it's the same. Is it the Norwegian Jewel?

[Frank Novanek]

It's the Norwegian Jewel in Pearl.

[Host 1]

Oh.

[Frank Novanek]

And it leaves out of Miami on Halloween.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

Weekend. The KISS cruise was. The KISS cruise was always that boat, that port, that routing. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Harm's Way is doing that this year.

[Frank Novanek]

You're gonna have the best time ever.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Do you. And do you know any of the like, masseuses or anything on there? We can say hello.

[Frank Novanek]

I was wasted on those kids cruises, man. The people. There's people. 47. 47, 47, 48 countries on those boats.

[Host 1]

Wow.

[Frank Novanek]

The Brazilians or the.

[Host 1]

Oh, those are the Goats.

[Frank Novanek]

They're crazy.

[Host 1]

They're the best.

[Frank Novanek]

They would. People party in the casino bar all night long. Yeah. And like they would roll up with a pa. Their own PA that they brought in their luggage and set it up. The guests of the cruise in the casino and blast Kiss.

[Host 1]

And like Kiss is already playing in.

[Frank Novanek]

Every room at the casino. I beat Gene in a guitar pick throwing contest.

[Host 1]

That's true.

[Host 2]

You've told me this.

[Host 1]

Do you win anything?

[Frank Novanek]

I want a kiss bicycle and 100 out of his wallet. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Did you keep the bill?

[Frank Novanek]

I go, this is really weird. You're giving me money.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

Finally. Well, that's when we had our little conversation about Phil.

[Host 2]

Did you. Do you have a Kiss vomit? What's the vomit thing? The Vomitron vomilator.

[Frank Novanek]

I don't know.

[Host 2]

The little toy that regurgitates blood.

[Frank Novanek]

I had a water fountain that spit red blood or whatever.

[Host 2]

Jericho has it. I saw. He's also Jericho's.

[Frank Novanek]

Also. We speak about every time I see him. We're always.

[Host 1]

What would you value your Kiss collection at?

[Frank Novanek]

I mean, I've got guitars from Paul and stuff like that.

[Host 2]

So.

[Host 1]

Price.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host 2]

You know, we. You see, we ran into him in la.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah. That was so cool.

[Host 1]

Unbelievable.

[Host 2]

It was awesome.

[Frank Novanek]

How was he?

[Host 1]

So really cool.

[Frank Novanek]

But son rips on the guitar.

[Host 2]

Really.

[Frank Novanek]

And him and Gene's son have a band.

[Host 2]

Oh, that's cool.

[Host 1]

Thank God.

[Frank Novanek]

I know. They should just replace them, right?

[Host 1]

Same bad.

[Host 2]

We were outside of McConnell's, his favorite.

[Host 1]

And I always say you see somebody every time you're there because it's so good.

[Host 2]

And Colin spotted him and it was amazing.

[Host 1]

And he was playing close. He was low key.

[Host 2]

Very low key.

[Host 1]

Had some sneakers on. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Skinny.

[Host 2]

And we all were like, should we shoot. We decided not. We kind of walked up a little bit, but then he went to get into the SUV that was waiting for him and the door was locked. That class and like that did it for us. And I turned around, I was like, paul, would you mind? And he was like, no problem. He was pointing at his phone.

[Host 1]

He was even like, should I get my. My ice cream in here? Guys doing bits. Big hands, big hand. Big guy.

[Host 2]

Big hand. Yeah, kind of a big guy.

[Host 1]

Well manicured.

[Frank Novanek]

Gorgeous.

[Host 2]

Very nice.

[Frank Novanek]

Gets on a bike and rides 15 miles every day.

[Host 2]

Really?

[Frank Novanek]

70 some years old.

[Host 1]

Unbelievable.

[Host 2]

Yeah, but very nice, very cool.

[Host 1]

Were you around for any of the hate breed typo negative Kiss parties that I heard about?

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, I mean, I was the ringleader of our camp. Johnny and Johnny and Johnny and Kenny were the Kiss guys in that band. And it just. We would send the runner out to buy more and more Kiss shit every day. And it just became more and more stuff. We would. The dressing room would be dedicated to the after party, which was Kiss Club. We had laminates that we made and like girls would come and like, if anybody complained that it was all kissing there out the door you go, wow.

[Host 1]

What I heard from Sean was that they walked in on Typo listening to Kiss. And Typo's vibe was kind of like, you don't know shit about Kiss.

[Frank Novanek]

But you were like in the beginning. Excuse me, Kenny.

[Host 1]

I'm the guy.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, I remember Kenny going, you know this song with this accent. It was great there. That. That was a lot of fun. Sadly, we lost Peter not that long after that.

[Host 2]

Yeah, that was like one of the last ones.

[Host 1]

Right?

[Frank Novanek]

That's one of the great things about the band is it's universal that we can go tour with a band like Typo or Motorhead or whoever and make it work. And then you get to meet these people that just a lot of times influence you or whose bands you like or whatever it is. So that was just a. A classic example of one of those scenarios being out with them. It was. It was a weird. It was us, them and three inches of blood.

[Host 1]

Yeah, you played the Whiskey or the Roxy or something in. In la. It was a school night. Couldn't go good tour.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, just.

[Host 1]

Peter was on like an oxygen tank on the tour.

[Host 2]

He was rough, huh?

[Frank Novanek]

Peter was. Yeah, he definitely. He wasn't looking too good then, you.

[Host 1]

Know, that was three years before or something.

[Frank Novanek]

We would play before them and a lot of their fans would stick around and the. That Kenny and Johnny would play games like they. One night we're playing on stage and Chris is playing his bass. And if you know Chris like, this isn't something that you should do to him probably, but Kenny would get drunk every night on Jack. And then I look over and Kenny's on his back while we're playing the show and got him around his neck like this. And Chris is trying to play and loses his balance and he falls down on his. His back and Kenny's underneath him and beating, staring up at the sky with his base. With Kenny underneath there. Well, it's like, what is going on over here?

[Host 1]

And then like he is a big guy, right?

[Frank Novanek]

And Kenny would come out with the Gene Simmons life work like the. Like the life size cut out. And he would stand up on Jamie's eagle riser and jump feet first with his motorcycle boots over the barricade into the crowd with it. I mean, this is the kind of these dudes were doing while you're playing. Johnny would go by like an office chair, like on wheels going. And then he would come back from the other side. Like these dudes were in the shenanigans.

[Host 1]

Like that every night. They were just getting you most nights post kiss. Post Kiss discovery.

[Frank Novanek]

Jamie's got great stories about Kenny because I think Kenny filled in for Kingdom of Sorrow before. So he's.

[Host 1]

He did.

[Frank Novanek]

I saw that he had to live on a bus.

[Host 1]

I tried Dimash. I wasn't allowed. The metal head stopped me.

[Host 2]

Oh, wow.

[Host 1]

With Roxy Key Club, one of these places.

[Frank Novanek]

King of Sorrows, Mashable.

[Host 1]

No, big time. But you know, like when. When you're. I was a teenager.

[Host 2]

Yeah, sure.

[Host 1]

Small guy amongst the sea of big bald men. What are you gonna do? Disney Frank.

[Frank Novanek]

Oh, what about him?

[Host 1]

Tell me all about him. How did this love come to be?

[Frank Novanek]

It's really just Disney World. I mean, it's.

[Host 1]

How do you feel about land?

[Frank Novanek]

Land's cool.

[Host 2]

Land's cool.

[Host 1]

California bench.

[Host 2]

OG Right.

[Frank Novanek]

But I'm not a big park guy. I'm a resort guy. Like, the parks are cool.

[Host 1]

What do you mean?

[Frank Novanek]

The resorts? It's Disney resorts.

[Host 1]

I don't know about them.

[Frank Novanek]

What's the best 25 on property where I live?

[Host 2]

Holy.

[Frank Novanek]

Because Disney World in Florida is bigger than the city of San Francisco, Right?

[Host 1]

Because it was a swamp before that. Yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

They built it. What's the best result?

[Frank Novanek]

I. I just. I belong to this thing called Disney Vacation Club where I have this timeshare with that. And we just. The resorts are like five star. And you just hang there. You could take a boat to the parks. A skylift to the parks.

[Host 1]

I thought you were the park guy. I thought you were.

[Frank Novanek]

Parks are fine. I like the parks. Don't get me wrong. I love it all, but, like, I'm resorts, then parks for sure.

[Host 1]

So when you. There's a new Hate Breed promo picture where. Jonathan. Is that his name? Who's the guy? The. The new guy?

[Frank Novanek]

Oh, Matt was filling in for that.

[Host 1]

He's wearing an Epcot shirt in the Hate Breed promo picture.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, he's a big Disney nerd too.

[Host 1]

He.

[Frank Novanek]

He's a podcast all day. He's really nerdy.

[Host 1]

Wow, that. That got me.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

In my mind, you gave him that.

[Frank Novanek]

He's a sick. He's a sick going, welcome to the bank. I have my own drinking team at Epcot. Like, we've been doing this since 2010. We've done this over a hundred times. Because if you go to Epcot, there's countries in the back.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And that thing's awesome.

[Frank Novanek]

We drink around the world and we have shirts where you check off every country when you go. It's a blast.

[Host 2]

Wow.

[Frank Novanek]

So when people talk about Disney adults, they're like, oh, that's really weird that you'd be hanging out with, like, a. Somebody in a costume or like, they think about me on, like, it's a small word or something. I was like, dude, we're driving boats around, getting wasted. Like, I don't know anything about what you're talking about. I'm not wearing ears. I'm not like, yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

All the people in the countries, like, speak the language of the.

[Frank Novanek]

They're from. They're from. They're from the country.

[Host 1]

Yeah. I just. I got this all wrong. I thought you were, like, sick at Buzz Lightyear Astro Blaster and just like.

[Frank Novanek]

A. I like the parks, but I. But. But at my age, I. I don't. I just. I'm truly an old Florida person. I just like to walk around and enjoy the beauty of the parks rather than be going upside down 20 times.

[Host 1]

Sure.

[Host 2]

Are you.

[Frank Novanek]

Are you like, I'm a Tower of Terror guy? Yeah.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, that's gotta be. I'm a Twilight Zone dude.

[Host 2]

Are you a Sharks first jets kind of personality when it comes to Universal, or do you double dip?

[Frank Novanek]

Oh, I. The Enemy.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

I don't fuck with them.

[Host 2]

That answers my question.

[Frank Novanek]

Those folks across town.

[Host 1]

The Enemy is crazy. Are there Hate Breed songs? So the Hate Breed writing and recording process, like, it's well documented how Jamie Forward it is, you know, Are there. Do you have major writing contributions to the Hate Breed Records that have come out since you've been in the band?

[Frank Novanek]

No, I mean, I think I have one riff on one song I don't write. It was. Oh, it's always Chris and Jamie writing the music.

[Host 1]

Crazy.

[Frank Novanek]

That's it. From day one, it's Chris and Jamie. They're. They're the. They're the guys from day one, for the most part. So how.

[Host 1]

What is the dynamic like now without Chris and without him writing?

[Frank Novanek]

Wayne, I think is. Is we all have our ideas about songs. Songs are presented. Hey, I think we should change this. Hey, I think this riff should go longer. Hey, you know what I mean? So I could never. I don't know, man. My problem is, even though the songs were terror, I feel like they kind of fit into what they were doing. I was like, all right, it's just got to sound like Mad Ball, you know what I mean? Or something like that. But Hate Free man, I don't even know. I'm not a groove dude like that when it comes to writing, you know what I mean? Like that. And I'm not. I'm not somebody that's trying to show up and break something that's not broken. You know what I mean? So is there.

[Host 1]

Is there a Hate Breed song that's been presented to you during your time that really blew your mind that you love playing?

[Frank Novanek]

Oh, yeah, of course. I mean, I. I mean, what's the one? It's crazy to me how just some songs blew up. I mean, look at. Like I was saying before, a band that's in two different scenes. You have. You have this world where people talk about satisfaction and perseverance. And then you have a song off one of our last records that has the most stream, over a hundred million streams.

[Host 1]

I'll never forget, by far.

[Frank Novanek]

Do we close the show with it every night? Really? Is that looking down the barrel today?

[Host 1]

Yeah. So that. What. It became your most streamed song while we were on tour together.

[Frank Novanek]

Oh, okay.

[Host 1]

So on the tour, he started saying, this is our most streamed song. Every night he's said this.

[Frank Novanek]

Oh, okay.

[Host 1]

And the place exploded.

[Frank Novanek]

Ah, yeah, it's. That's a good one.

[Host 2]

My favorite you started with Supremacy Onward is when you started in the video, the song Spitting Venom.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, that's.

[Host 2]

I love that song.

[Frank Novanek]

That's a great album. That's a great album. That is a. That album is a great blend of Hate Breed beyond that and Hate Breed before that. I agree, because it's got the dynamic of the stuff before it, but it has that metallic edge and it Also brought us one of the biggest songs in the career. Destroy Everything. My favorite Hate Breed songs on that record. To the Threshold. I never get sick of playing that song.

[Host 1]

Was that one Grammy nominated too? Am I crazy? That was. I know. Live for this.

[Frank Novanek]

Was Live for this.

[Host 1]

I think 2 threshold had a video that really popped off.

[Frank Novanek]

Oh, yeah, it was real pro.

[Host 2]

That's right. How do you feel about music videos? They suck.

[Frank Novanek]

I was watching a Huey Lewis concert a couple nights ago from 85.

[Host 1]

That's not the same.

[Frank Novanek]

From 80, but wait a second. From 85. And I was like, this dude used to make some of the best videos.

[Host 1]

This is it.

[Frank Novanek]

Oh, my God, the beach and all that. And it just got me to thinking about music videos. And like, they must have hated making that because it sucks. You're there all day doing that over and over and over and over and you don't know.

[Host 1]

But it actually benefited bands at the time, right? For sure.

[Frank Novanek]

Especially with the Wheel of mtv. But when you're doing all this, you just. It could be a dud, you know, I mean, you don't know. So you're up there sweating and doing this stuff all day and. And you have to have them. You think?

[Host 2]

So you think they're a necessity?

[Frank Novanek]

I don't know. I think nowadays, don't. Bands don't even make records sometimes, right? They just make a. They'll do like single songs and there'll be a video for every song.

[Host 1]

Every song. Haywire's doing it and it's really working for them, you know, make the videos.

[Host 2]

That's true. If you want to do it.

[Host 1]

If you can and you want to do it, it will benefit you greatly if. If you really go in and go hard and like, do some shit on your own.

[Host 2]

But maybe it's the traditional music video.

[Host 1]

You know, the traditional music video is all.

[Frank Novanek]

It's always the new angel.

[Host 2]

This one is like incredible.

[Host 1]

They. They know what they're doing. They. They've got a Huey Lewis, if this Is it esque approach to videos, which, if you. Huey Lewis was the perfect thing to bring up with music videos. Unbelievable. If this Is it is a top.

[Frank Novanek]

Three video and Heart and Soul where he starts the girl and they're running, opening all the doors and all. All that. It.

[Host 1]

It's always a girl. So get the girl in the video with you and just get. Get rocking. 20 years of hate breeding. Frank, is there a new record on.

[Frank Novanek]

The way coming out this year? Yeah, most. It's pretty much. I mean, it's done. The nice thing about in this era, I was telling somebody the other day that's not in the music business like we are. The nice thing about the way things are rolled out now, I think, is you can drop a single, even if you have the whole record done and be like, all right, now, there's all this time where you can really review what you've done and you could really change something that you didn't like.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

Or even make another song and all that. It's not like, okay, there's the record, there's the two videos, here's what are supposed to be singles, and that's it. So it's nice to drop. To be able to drop the single, which we had a great response for him. We love the song like this. As far as the band's concerned, we feel we're real happy with make the Demons Obey. And, you know, we'll probably leak another one here soon, and there'll probably be proper videos coming after that.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

Beautiful touring with Hate Breed, touring with Ringworm. Touring. Integrity. The answer's gonna change because the circumstances change. But one thing brings us all together as men on the road, women on the road, people on the road. Food. Talk to me. What are you into?

[Frank Novanek]

Well, I eat terrible when I'm. Luckily, we're not on the road this much because I. I just eat so much better when I'm at home.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

So you're out there doing your thing, you know.

[Host 2]

Yeah, we're talking terrible.

[Frank Novanek]

I. I like.

[Host 1]

Talk to me.

[Frank Novanek]

I mean, if you're going to Chicago and you're talking about the big three with the pizza and the hot dogs and the Italian beef. The Italian beef's first. I think.

[Host 2]

Come on. This is.

[Host 1]

Dude. I think because I eat it so seldomly, I think I agree. When I get to have a Porto's Italian beef. You saw me last night.

[Host 2]

Yeah, he was. We got two big beefs.

[Frank Novanek]

Do you get them dry and have the sauce on the side or you.

[Host 1]

Get them soaked sopping wet?

[Frank Novanek]

Sopping wet.

[Host 2]

I get it right in the middle.

[Host 1]

Mozzarella, hot peppers.

[Host 2]

I get hot and sweet soaking.

[Host 1]

Everywhere. Everywhere.

[Frank Novanek]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't know. You guys, are. You guys. I've seen the stuff you guys post with all that stuff. It's great. I love it. I love the whole Connecticut pizza thing. I thought that was awesome.

[Host 1]

Thank you. You have a. Do you have a choice between the big New Haven pizza place.

[Frank Novanek]

Never really got to go and experience all those. I just.

[Host 1]

20 years in Haybrid. You never had Sally's?

[Frank Novanek]

No, I Never did. Ever.

[Host 1]

What the hell, man?

[Frank Novanek]

I know. I was such a loser when it comes to that. Like, because I love pizza and I'll get behind Connecticut just because any of the pizza I've had in Connecticut's been phenomenal. It doesn't have to be one of those places, but it is.

[Host 1]

Dude. It's different that one street. It's different there, man.

[Frank Novanek]

No, I need to go and wait in line and do all that.

[Host 2]

What's a. What's a Cleveland staple? Skyline or something?

[Frank Novanek]

No, that's Cincinnati. Cleveland is. Has a lot of Eastern European influence. Oh, beautiful. Yeah, there's a lot of great Polish restaurants and. And stuff like that in Hungaria. Pierogies, Hungarian stuff. I mean, it's a definitely a foodie town. All those Rust Belt towns.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

Buffalo, you get the ethnic Pittsburgh and all that. They all have their other stuff.

[Host 1]

What about in Europe? What do you look forward to eating when you're there?

[Frank Novanek]

I don't care. What does that mean? I was catering. Oh, you know, so. Yeah, I should really go out. And I'm missing out in France and.

[Host 1]

All these, you know. You never had a Frickadel.

[Frank Novanek]

I don't know what that is.

[Host 1]

You never. If 20 years in hamper. You never had a Frigadel?

[Frank Novanek]

No. What do you know?

[Host 1]

Freaking out.

[Frank Novanek]

Stop making up stuff.

[Host 1]

Yeah, Freakadel. You speak German? Translate it for me.

[Host 2]

Freakadel.

[Host 1]

Yeah, it's like a meatloaf thing.

[Frank Novanek]

It's like a dry meatloaf. Delicious. I've probably had it.

[Host 1]

Probably. You had them hot dogs with the hollowed out bread roll where they.

[Frank Novanek]

Of course, that's Denmark.

[Host 1]

And the sauce goes up.

[Frank Novanek]

Denmark had. Danish dogs are phenomenal.

[Host 1]

So good.

[Frank Novanek]

So you like that schnitzel?

[Host 1]

Schnitzel. One of the great kebab. Pretty good.

[Host 2]

No pizza ever.

[Host 1]

Not a good.

[Host 2]

We had. We ate on the street once.

[Frank Novanek]

Remember that?

[Host 1]

We don't need to get into that. It's dark days.

[Host 2]

Dark days.

[Host 1]

So in terms of fast food, when touring in America.

[Frank Novanek]

Oh, God, I know.

[Host 1]

Pick one.

[Frank Novanek]

That's hard.

[Host 1]

Where are you stopping?

[Frank Novanek]

God damn.

[Host 2]

Yeah, where are you saying, hey, driver, you.

[Host 1]

You or haybreed as a whole. What's the spot?

[Frank Novanek]

Oh, does hey breed stop. No. No, we don't.

[Host 1]

What a weird band.

[Frank Novanek]

Well, because in America. Hey. Freed wakes up at a Super Walmart every morning and that's a bus driver. Day one. He's told that because we need to go to the number two. We need to because we're gonna get into town before the venue's open.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

And hate breed rolls with a foreman, a crock pot and a skillet. I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah. A crock pot, a skill, a proper skillet and a foreman. Yeah. Why? Because you're cooking? No, we normally take money instead of catering.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

Budget and we just go in and buy whatever we want. Everybody has their own food, so you can make it. I got Carl the vegan hanging and. Yeah. Also Wayne's a pescatarian and at that.

[Host 1]

Level cooking fish in the bus.

[Frank Novanek]

He don't. He don't cook. Jamie and I are maniacal about sardines and we eat them all the time.

[Host 2]

I love.

[Frank Novanek]

And we're maniacal about anchovies on pizza.

[Host 2]

Well, his. His McDonald's order was double fish filet, extra tartar sauce.

[Frank Novanek]

Jamie's big fish sandwich guy sometimes about you. For what?

[Host 1]

Filet fish. Are you a believer or are you a deceiver?

[Frank Novanek]

I don't.

[Host 1]

Yeah. It's sick, right?

[Frank Novanek]

I'm not really into it.

[Host 1]

It's a sick thing to do.

[Frank Novanek]

I'll. For Manny. Brothers up all day. You certainly have gone there. Sandwich in Pittsburgh.

[Host 1]

I never been.

[Frank Novanek]

You gotta go. Okay. You gotta go to Texas.

[Host 1]

You're in the best Connecticut hardcore man of all time.

[Frank Novanek]

I know. Brothers got the fries and the coleslaw.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Code took us there. It's good.

[Host 1]

Number one fast food in America.

[Frank Novanek]

God, why would you do that?

[Host 1]

You have to. It's the rules. What?

[Frank Novanek]

The show is hell. Can I ask what yours is first?

[Host 1]

Mine is in and out. I think it's the greatest restaurant.

[Frank Novanek]

Oh, yeah.

[Host 2]

It's a little cheating.

[Host 1]

It's the world's greatest.

[Host 2]

It's not everywhere. So he's cheating a little bit.

[Frank Novanek]

It's not all that.

[Host 1]

It's the world's greatest restaurant. It is all that. And I'm shake.

[Host 2]

You know, it's not. It's. It's accelerated cuisine for sure.

[Frank Novanek]

But. No, no, no, no, no.

[Host 2]

I'm saying this is a segue. I've recently fallen back in love with noodles and company.

[Host 1]

Really?

[Host 2]

Dude, they changed their menu. They read. They red lobstered it.

[Host 1]

It's changed. That young man came and really changed the game. There's a young man that came in and changed.

[Frank Novanek]

There's somebody I with rallies and checkers. Just because it's over 4 in the morning.

[Host 2]

It is open.

[Frank Novanek]

It's open late. Wow.

[Host 1]

Checkers beyond the chocolate.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah. With the big Buford plus they have like. Plus like rappers have burgers there now. So like, that's cool.

[Host 2]

You're like, oh, Remember when Hoobastank had it? Yeah, we talk about this all the time.

[Host 1]

The Denny's thing had a Denny's menu. The hobbit had it, then his menu.

[Frank Novanek]

People love Chick Fil A too, man. They can't. People can't believe Chick Fil a you don't.

[Host 1]

You like it, it's fine.

[Frank Novanek]

But like, man, every time I drive by, I'm like, what the hell?

[Host 1]

It's falling off.

[Frank Novanek]

Is it? It's it. Chick Fil a sandwich or Popeyes sandwich? Popeyes is better.

[Host 1]

You don't like the mayo? Yeah, I love the mayo.

[Host 2]

I'm not a mayo guy.

[Frank Novanek]

I'm a fried chicken dude.

[Host 1]

Yeah. What's the spot? You like Jollibee?

[Host 2]

You like Dave's Hot?

[Frank Novanek]

What I don't like about Dave's Hot is it's not proper chicken pieces. It's just tender. It's true.

[Host 2]

That's true.

[Host 1]

What about Jollibee? Have you done it?

[Frank Novanek]

My number one go to is a place like Hattie B's. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Hattie Bees.

[Frank Novanek]

Forget it. Nashville. Hot chicken.

[Host 1]

Yeah, but that's like a. That's. That's a higher tier establishment. Whereas Jollibee is actual fast food, brother.

[Host 2]

It's Filipino fast food.

[Host 1]

It's going to. It is unreal. The spicy one. 10 out of 10.

[Host 2]

It's awesome.

[Frank Novanek]

11. Damn.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

And it's where? It's not in Florida.

[Host 1]

All over, probably in Florida.

[Host 2]

Florida has everything.

[Frank Novanek]

You got jets, Orlando has everything.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Ah, good point.

[Host 1]

Speaking of everything, you ever see a ghost or.

[Frank Novanek]

See what?

[Host 1]

A ghost.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Really?

[Frank Novanek]

That was one of our very good friend's house. Who? I won't tell you whose it is. They live in Connecticut.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Jamie.

[Frank Novanek]

No, I can't tell you.

[Host 1]

Tell me about the ghost.

[Frank Novanek]

I was in the room, touching my legs and making noise, banging on the wall all night. I was like, what the is going on? Was wild.

[Host 1]

Full body apparition, full noises and all wild.

[Frank Novanek]

And I was told. And I asked somebody that lived downstairs. They're like, oh, yeah.

[Host 2]

So you're a believer?

[Host 1]

You're with me?

[Frank Novanek]

I mean, I guess. And then the next night, I remember he's there. Like, you remember coming. You remember coming back last night? This is how I knew. And I was like. Knew what? Knew that you'd seen something. And we heard you go, I'm drunk as right now. You make all the noise. You're talking to the ghost. You want to make all the noise. All you want. Touch me. I'm passing out. He's like, what was that? Last night I was like, oh, there was some the other night I forgot to tell you about. Whoa.

[Host 1]

So haunted. You hear that?

[Host 2]

I hear it.

[Host 1]

I hear it.

[Frank Novanek]

Like King diamond says, the house is forever haunted. There's nothing you can do.

[Host 1]

That's right. Them and Fatal Portrait.

[Frank Novanek]

That song in particular.

[Host 1]

Yeah, but the. You know there's two records about a haunted house.

[Frank Novanek]

No, I know.

[Host 1]

Fail Portrait. Pretty good couple tracks. So you believe in ghosts? Do you like touring, Frank?

[Frank Novanek]

I like the hour on stage.

[Host 2]

Yeah, that's right.

[Frank Novanek]

At my age, I click my heels together like Dorothy. There's no place like home. But I love Florida so much. I. I wanted to live in Florida all the time that I was living in Ohio. So it has everything I'm into.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Disney Humidity Cruise.

[Frank Novanek]

Humidity is one of my favorite.

[Host 1]

Love humidity.

[Frank Novanek]

I love it. I love to walk out the door and be like, motherfuckers die in this weather. Let's go. Because this is way better than 60 degrees.

[Host 1]

But you're a big guy like us. We don't.

[Frank Novanek]

I'm in my pool all day, or the ocean, or the air conditioning.

[Host 1]

I'm not on a roof.

[Frank Novanek]

I'm not landscaping.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

My favorite thing about living in Florida is I tend to be negative sometimes. And the sun's shining every morning that we wake up. If we get rain in Florida, it's an afternoon, and every morning that sun's coming up. And it's just a morale boost for me. You know what I mean?

[Host 2]

Wow.

[Frank Novanek]

I love it. So I need that because we. We just did a UK tour, and I was like, God, we saw the sun one time in two weeks. I'm not exaggerating. It was crazy.

[Host 1]

You know, Morrissey's like that.

[Frank Novanek]

I'm not bitching about anything because it's been a great ride. It's been. It's been a. To be able to do this. I'm grateful for everything that's going on, all the bands I've been in, all the people involved, all the friends I met. But, you know, I mean, I wasn't planning on being 55 and being in a band. So that's going to be me this later this year.

[Host 1]

So I'm glad you are okay. Is there anything left for you that you feel like you haven't achieved yet with music?

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, not really. I mean, I've been everywhere in the damn world. You know, we. I always tell people that don't know what we do. Getting to travel the world with your friends isn't so bad. You know what I mean? So. But to to be direct support for Kiss.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Frank Novanek]

To get on stage and play with your favorite band. A club twice. To play a Hellfest and turn around and see your favorite band on stage watching you because they were on the same stage right after you.

[Host 2]

That was Blue Oyster Cult.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host 2]

They were watching you guys.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah, because they were on. They were on Hellfest the same stage the same day. I was like, dude, you did it. Wow. I used to stalk them. Like, I would fall. I would. If they were within. They're a weekend warrior band. They played weirdest places at this point in their career. So I would. If they were within seven, eight hours, I would go. And then I'd be like. They're like. They're probably like, who's that guy that knows every song? There's only two guys here. Knew everything song. They were annoying, and they were pissing the whole crowd off, and they were those guys. And eventually we got into that world because Jamie was in the Delta Lounge once at the airport, and Eric Bloom, the singer from Woods Cult, was in there. And Jamie goes, aren't you Eric from Blue to Cult? He's like, yeah, I'm Jamie. I so sad. Bangers Ball and I play in the van H. And he's like, oh, my son plays drums. Ben. His name's Ben. He loves Hate Breed. So then next thing you know, they're calling my phone. He's like, my guitar player is obsessed with your band. You. I'm sure you would recognize him if you saw him. He's at all your shows. He knows every song. And. And I made that connection. And, like, it was so cool to play Hellfest on the main stage. I mean, the fact that they were on the same day as us, the same state, I mean, it doesn't make sense to have Haprem back to back. Yeah. And their dressing room was on the other side of wall of ours. So to have Don and Eric, who are the original guys, and then Richie, who's the man on stage watching us play and, like, doing what we do up there, you shed a tear, like, well, first of all, they were probably like, all right, this dude's not the we thought he was maybe. So, like, you know what I mean? So, like, I became less annoying to them, probably. But that's stalker. It's pretty cool. Don, who's like my guitar hero with Buck. Dharma's his nickname. But I loved what you guys did out there. I love what you. What you do. And then Eric was like, holy. They're not gonna be doing that. Jumping up and down when we're playing. I was like, it doesn't matter. You guys are the greatest. Whatever. So that was like. That was a moment.

[Host 2]

Wow.

[Frank Novanek]

And I had. And I got to come on stage and play with them a couple times. Rudy Sarzo from Aussie and Quiet Riot was playing bass at the time. When I jammed with them, I did this Ain't the Summer of Love, which is off Agents of Fortune, the record Don't Forget Reapers on. And I did me 262 with them. Wow. So that was. I was shook. You just knew. No rehearsing. Like the song. That's. You still play this the way you played it 50 years ago, whatever it is. I was like, like, damn. I just had a guitar. And I was like, Richie jumped behind the keyboard and hey. Pulled it off. Oh, yeah.

[Host 2]

You extended the same generosity with me on the last day of our tour.

[Frank Novanek]

Came up and played. What was it? Smash.

[Host 2]

Not One Truth.

[Frank Novanek]

Not One Truth. Yeah.

[Host 2]

My favorite hate song.

[Frank Novanek]

That was fun.

[Host 2]

That was a highlight for me.

[Frank Novanek]

That was so fun. You know. What up? Can you tell everybody about when you dressed up as us?

[Host 2]

So, yeah. So the last day of the tour was Virginia beach, and it was near Halloween, shortly before Halloween. And we. You know, we're funny guys, and we always do something for Halloween, and we decided, well, let's. Let's do Haybreed. And it didn't really make sense because it was us then. Carcass than hate breed. But we had an inside carcass.

[Host 1]

Nobody can.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Find those pants.

[Host 2]

Nobody can find the pants or a wig like that.

[Host 1]

True.

[Host 2]

But Alicia, who was doing merch for you on that tour, she was my insider because we knew we could. We could draw something on Nick, give him the Wayne goatee and the hat.

[Host 1]

Easy.

[Host 2]

Casey And. And BD Gave him a cutoff tee. That was okay. James. We gave him a bandana. You know, that was pretty doable, but I wanted something good. And Alicia went into your bunk, and you had just gotten a Broncos jersey. And I still feel bad about this because I don't.

[Host 1]

Brand new jersey.

[Host 2]

It was brand new.

[Frank Novanek]

It was a Florida Gators white. White.

[Host 2]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Frank Novanek]

It was white. 17.

[Host 2]

You're right.

[Host 1]

That's not as serious.

[Host 2]

It was a white.

[Frank Novanek]

Definitely a serious. But I played college football. Down here is bigger than bro.

[Host 2]

I played. I wore shirt under it so as not to soil this one. And I did. It was. I wasn't wet. I didn't. I was very conscious of that. I took it very easy on stage. And I wore a hat And I did your. Your bandana gimmick on your wrist.

[Frank Novanek]

You guys killed it. It was so funny to watch.

[Host 2]

And Chris, Chris had a puka shell necklace we found in Virginia beach and.

[Host 1]

Like sweatbands and stuff and backwards hat lollipop.

[Frank Novanek]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Really?

[Frank Novanek]

We did it, dude.

[Host 1]

Unreal. I saw a picture. It was great.

[Host 2]

We did it.

[Host 1]

But Frank, as we, as we get older, we. We lead by example. The examples left behind us are people like you, who are kind to us when we're, you know, you just met Bo, but you met me at a time where it was like, our band is slowly growing very impressionable. And I don't know what to expect from the bands I love. I've had bands I love who are dicks to me and that I write off. You're the guy, dude. You've always been the guy. You go up to people from day one. You embrace them, you accept them. So thank you for being so cool.

[Frank Novanek]

I try to be. I mean, I can all the time, but know what I mean?

[Host 2]

Like, yeah, of course.

[Frank Novanek]

You know, who, who are, who are our bands without the people that love it? Because I'm just doing what I, I, you know, I have bands that I love that I look up to and, you know, it's a bummer. I mean, not everybody has to be nice, you know, but.

[Host 1]

But it is our responsibility, like, especially in hardcore and punk, the. The next generation is what's going to keep it going. So we must, we must support them.

[Frank Novanek]

Absolutely. Like, I'm gonna go, like, as soon as we're done here, I'm gonna go. I'm going, John 5. I'm going to. Hang on. I'm going. I'm going to the.

[Host 1]

You're going haywire.

[Frank Novanek]

Well, and I'm going to the, the vendors. I'm gonna go dig through records and hell yeah, maybe say hi to some people and it's beautiful. Get up on stage later and make some noise.

[Host 1]

Well, let's go do that.

[Host 2]

Let's.

[Frank Novanek]

Let's do that.

[Host 1]

And now, Frank, as we sign off, is there any last words you'd like to leave the hardware world?

[Frank Novanek]

Well, I appreciate, first of all, it's super cool what you guys do. I mean, I think it's so important to scene. You're educating people big time. The young kids that have gotten into this, however, the avenues they've used to get into this stuff, you guys are like the guys. So to watch it grow like that, super cool. Glad to be part of it. I know we talked about it for a while and appreciate you having me on.

[Host 2]

Absolutely.

[Frank Novanek]

And we'll be dropping a record this year, so hopefully we'll see you guys out on the road. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Beautiful.

[Host 1]

Beautifully said. Frank. Florida. Frank. Frank Three Gun. Mr. DNA. We love you so much. Thank you for sitting with us. We hope you all enjoyed this as much as we did.

[Frank Novanek]

Thank you, guys.

[Host 1]

Check him out.

[Frank Novanek]

Bye.

[Host 1]

This episode is brought to you by Mad Vintage.