HardLore: Best 80's Hardcore band

Summary

HardLore Podcast Episode Summary: "Best 80's Hardcore Band"

Release Date: April 17, 2025

Hosts:

• Colin Young (Twitching Tongues & God's Hate)
• Bo Lueders (Harms Way)
• Affiliation: Knotfest

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Introduction

In this electrifying episode of HardLore, hosts Colin Young and Bo Lueders embark on a mission to crown the Best 1980s Hardcore Band of all time. Combining their deep-rooted passion for hardcore, punk, and metal scenes, they utilize a tournament bracket system to evaluate and challenge the legacies of various influential bands from the 1980s.

Bracket Formation and Honorable Mentions

Before diving into the tournament, Colin and Bo acknowledge the complexity of selecting the top 32 bands, crediting their graphic designer, Carrie, for crafting a challenging bracket. They discuss several honorable mentions that couldn't make the cut, including iconic names like Bad Religion, Circle Jerks, Black Flag, and Flipper among others ([02:16] Colin).

Notable Quote:

Colin ([02:16]): "Just a few y." Bo ([02:53]): "The Bare Essentials made it. Circle Jerk not on it."

Round One: Initial Matchups

The bracket kicks off with heated debates over initial matchups:

1. Straight Ahead vs. Turning Point

   • Colin leans towards Straight Ahead, praising their groundbreaking impact ([00:10]).
   • Bo firmly supports Straight Ahead, stating, "Not even close" in favor of them ([00:22] Bo).

   Notable Quote:

   Bo ([34:38]): "Not even close. Turning Point has Slap Base, bro. That automatically disqualifies them."

2. Outburst vs. SSD

   • Both hosts agree on favoring SSD due to their extensive discography and cultural impact.

   Notable Quote:

   Bo ([07:05]): "SSS clears Outburst. With all due respect."

3. Youth of Today vs. Antidote

   • Acknowledging the foundational role of Youth of Today in the Straight Edge movement, Bo champions SSD, while Colin supports Youth of Today for their melodic influence.

   Notable Quote:

   Colin ([11:17]): "Youth today are the roots of the tree."

4. Bad Brains vs. CRO Mags

   • Colin supports Bad Brains for their unparalleled influence, while Bo favors CRO Mags for their musicianship and dynamic evolution.

   Notable Quote:

   Colin ([13:00]): "Bad Brains are Bad Brains, if they're not in this conversation, we've done something wrong."

Engaging Guest Judges

To resolve contentious matchups, Colin and Bo invite experts to provide objective perspectives:

• Mark Porter from Floor Punch adjudicates the Straight Ahead vs. Turning Point debate, decisively favoring Straight Ahead due to Turning Point's association with Slap Shot ([34:16] Colin).

  Notable Quote:

  Mark Porter ([34:40]): "Not even close. Turning Point has Slap Base... Slap Base is a disqualification."

• Todd Jones assists in the Leeway vs. Discharge matchup, endorsing Leeway for their comprehensive catalog and influence ([20:36] Colin).

  Notable Quote:

  Todd Jones ([20:43]): "I have to go with Leeway."

• Scott Vogel weighs in on the Poison Idea vs. Seven Seconds face-off, favoring Seven Seconds for their seminal impact ([25:20] Colin).

  Notable Quote:

  Scott Vogel ([25:20]): "Seven Seconds is the first hardcore band I ever saw headlining. Beautiful. The show. Beautiful."

Progression to Quarterfinals and Semifinals

As the tournament advances, the discussions intensify:

• Agnostic Front emerges as a powerhouse, defeating SSD with their expansive discography and enduring legacy ([61:45] Colin).

• Minor Threat triumphs over Chromax, praised for their profound influence on hardcore and the DIY ethic ([67:22] Colin).

• War Zone secures victory against Leeway, selected for their relentless energy and foundational role in New York Hardcore ([64:39] Colin).

• Raw Deal vs. Killing Time sees Killing Time advancing, applauded for their perfect demos and innovative evolution ([72:16] Mike).

Final Showdown: Agnostic Front vs. Minor Threat

The climactic final matchup pits Agnostic Front against Minor Threat, two titans of 1980s hardcore:

• Agnostic Front is lauded for their extensive influence, adaptability, and the sheer volume of impactful releases. Colin emphasizes their role in shaping modern hardcore and their enduring relevance ([82:06] Colin).

  Notable Quote:

  Colin ([84:10]): "Agnostic Front has influenced way more bands than Minor Threat has in the past 40 years."

• Minor Threat is respected for their pioneering Straight Edge movement and significant cultural contributions, though their shorter discography is a point of contention ([80:57] Colin).

  Notable Quote:

  Bo ([80:24]): "Minor Threat was obviously pretty instrumental to my love for punk and hardcore."

Conclusion and Final Verdict

After intense deliberation and expert opinions, Agnostic Front is unanimously crowned the Best 1980s Hardcore Band of all time. Their unparalleled impact, longevity, and continuous evolution solidify their supremacy in the hardcore punk scene.

Notable Final Quote:

Colin ([86:18]): "Agnostic Front is the greatest 1980s hardcore band of all time."

Closing Remarks

Colin and Bo extend their congratulations to all 32 nominees and honor the honorable mentions, underscoring the rich legacy of 1980s hardcore. They reflect on the passionate debates and the deep connections they share with the music, emphasizing the communal spirit that hardcore fosters.

Notable Closing Quote:

Bo ([87:18]): "You really did. We also want to give a shout out to all the honorable mentions."

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Episode Highlights:

• Bracket Battles: In-depth discussions on pivotal matchups determining the top 1980s hardcore bands.
• Expert Input: Guest judges like Mark Porter, Todd Jones, and Scott Vogel provide authoritative insights.
• Passionate Debates: Hosts passionately defend their favorites, showcasing the subjective nature of music appreciation.
• Ultimate Crown: Agnostic Front triumphs as the definitive best 80s hardcore band.

Honorable Mentions Recapped: Decroit, Zero Boys, Effigies, Dead Boys, MDC, Adolescents, Antidote, Naked Raygun, Chain of Strength, Dead Kennedys, DOA, SOA Fu's, Jerry's Kids, Fear, Gangrene, Flipper, Germs, Life's Blood, Government Issue, Iceman, Iron Cross, JFA, Kraut, Meatman, Minuteman, Murphy's Law, Necros, Nerve Agent, Sub Zero, Project X, Reagan Youth, Red Cross, Youth Defense League, Scream Siege, SNFU, Subhumans From Canada, TSOL Teen Idols, Token Entry, Undead, Urban Waste, Rest In Pieces, Verbal Abuse, Bad Religion, Social Distortion, Circle Jerks, and Crackdown.

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Final Thoughts: This episode of HardLore masterfully navigates the intricate landscape of 1980s hardcore punk, blending nostalgia with critical evaluation. Through spirited debates and expert opinions, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of what makes a band stand out in the hardcore scene. The crowning of Agnostic Front not only honors their legacy but also celebrates the enduring spirit of hardcore music.

Transcript

[Colin]

Straight Ahead versus Turning Point. We got a. We got a nasty one coming, folks. Mike, I think we got to call on an expert here.

[Mike]

Who are you going to call about this?

[Colin]

We've got Mark Porter from Floor Punch here.

[Mike]

Perfect.

[Colin]

Porter, we've got to ask you something very important. Okay. This is to CROWN the best 1980s hardcore band of all time. Straight ahead. Yeah, versus Turning Point.

[Mike]

Oh, it's Straight Ahead. Not even close.

[Colin]

Yeah, foreign. Hello, welcome. It's Hard Lore time. How are you, Bo?

[Mike]

I'm doing very well today, Colin. How are you?

[Colin]

I'm scared of this one.

[Mike]

Yeah, this one sucks.

[Colin]

You know, we haven't even posted the thing yet at time of recording, but I. I can imagine the discourse is perilous and never ending. And honestly, it has been internally as well. We've been staring at this bracket for a few days now, made by our graphic designer, Carrie, who is a sadist.

[Mike]

Sick.

[Colin]

But, you know, I think she. I think there's a couple tough picks in here, but overall she did a great job.

[Mike]

Of course.

[Colin]

But today, Hard Lore is going to Crown the best 1980s hardcore punk band of all time.

[Mike]

And we need to specify that this is, you know, the earlier in the 80s. You go, you're going to get a little more on the punk side. And then, you know, there's a spectrum here, but we're talking about everything within this decade that we.

[Colin]

There's a couple things we couldn't leave out, but we wanted to mostly keep it capital hc hardcore, you know, and.

[Mike]

Before we really get going on that, after we. We submitted the bracket, I just realized that there were some bands missing. So I thought I'd go through. For all you guys out there. We know what we're talking about, I promise. I just wanted to list some of the honorable mentions. We couldn't fit on this bracket unless we wanted to do, like we can.

[Colin]

Only put 32 bands on there.

[Mike]

You know, what do you want from us? Right?

[Colin]

So obviously a few things are going to get left out. Here are the honorable mentions.

[Mike]

DeCroit 0 Boys, effigies dicks, dead boys, MDC adolescence antidote, naked Ray Gun, Chain of Strength, Dead, Kennedy's doa, soa fu's Jerry's Kids, Fear, Gangrene, Flipper Germs, Life's Blood, Government Issue, Iceman, Iron Cross, jfa, Kraut, Meatman, Minuteman, Murphy's Law, Necros Nerve Agent, Sub Zero, Project X, Reagan Youth, Red Cross, Youth Defense League, Scream Siege, snfu, Subhumans From Canada, TSOL Teen Idols, Token Entry, Undead Urban Waste, Rest In Pieces, Verbal Abuse, Bad Religion, Social Distortion, and these Circle Jerks were left off of this list.

[Colin]

Just a few y.

[Mike]

A handful.

[Colin]

The Bare Essentials made it. Circle Jerk not on it.

[Mike]

It's just the biggest punk bands. Like, so, like. We know, but you guys also.

[Colin]

We know, but. But we. It's our show, God damn it.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

And this is, you know, we love like Life's Blood. Yeah. They probably should have on here, but what can you do? They got what, six songs or some.

[Mike]

That's also. That is a thing is like, some of these bands have one record, you know.

[Colin]

Yeah. And they're great records and they're great records.

[Mike]

But, you know.

[Colin]

But I, you know, I went and we both did this bracket independently before this.

[Mike]

Yes, we did.

[Colin]

Which. So I'm excited to see what we come up with together as a result.

[Mike]

Right. By trying to convince one another.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mike]

I feel like my answers are nine out of ten. Your answers. But there's. We're going to differ on one.

[Colin]

There's a few. There's a few big ones. There's a few that are. Are like. Like the. I guess we could just start now. Before we start, there's something important we want to tell you guys about.

[Mike]

Absolutely. We are beyond excited to be working with and sponsored by officially the Site for Sound program brought to you by Nevin Eyewear.

[Colin]

This is probably the coolest partnership we've gotten to do yet because it directly helps every single working person in the music industry if they click the link below. Sight for Sound is a program created and run by people from punk, metal, rock, hardcore over at Nev and Eyewear. It's very simple. If you need prescription glasses and you tour or work in the music industry at all, producers, agents, managers, crew, tms, merch people, I'm serious, anything they want to give you, free prescription glasses. Free prescription sunglasses, too.

[Mike]

That is it.

[Colin]

This is serious.

[Mike]

Yes.

[Colin]

Just get an eye exam and the only thing you need is your prescription and Nevin will give you free glasses. If you work in the music industry at all.

[Mike]

That's right. There's a minor vetting process. All you have to do is go to the site listed below, input your information. It'll ask you all the things that they need to know. And after you do that, the program will be in contact with you via email. It's really, really.

[Colin]

You did it yourself, right?

[Mike]

I did it myself two weeks ago. Mine are arriving tomorrow.

[Colin]

Your free glasses. Literally. No strings.

[Mike]

Yeah, there's no strings. There's no catch.

[Colin]

If you just do the thing right now. And you wear glasses and you work in music at all, your glasses will be free. So if you love 1980s hardcore punk bands, I bet your ass needs glasses. And I bet your prescription is out of date too. So go update that. Get them the new one. Go to the link below. They are literally insane for doing this. They just giving you free lessons. Enjoy. Let us know what you think when you get them. All right, we're starting off with a, with a main event.

[Mike]

Yeah, you know, pissing me off event.

[Colin]

This, this one is. This one is, is a damn near impossible call. And, and honestly, Suicidal is one of the greatest California hardcore bands of all time. You could even, you could call them one of the greatest hardcore bands of all time. You know, like, so influential, groundbreaking, creative, hard.

[Mike]

And like the cultural. You know, like, there's. Oh, yeah, the whole other aspect to it, which makes you wonder. They're paired up against Agnostic Front, are they? The west coast counterpart?

[Colin]

It. It could definitely be argued.

[Mike]

You know what I mean? There's some similarities.

[Colin]

What's interesting is, like, Suicidal was doing like 3,000 people in the palladium and AF was doing CVS, you know?

[Mike]

Totally.

[Colin]

It's different worlds.

[Mike]

Yeah, but is it more of a metal thing? More of a crossover thing? Or is it, Is it the culture?

[Colin]

I'm not. I mean, those. The first couple records.

[Mike]

Yeah, that's hardcore.

[Colin]

That's hc. I'm calling it Core Capital.

[Mike]

Hc.

[Colin]

But you're up against a giant. Yeah, you're up against the Godfathers. I, I, I got. I have to. And like any. In other spaces, Suicidal could make it to the finals.

[Mike]

Right? We run into this with all of our brackets.

[Colin]

Every single time, there's. There's one lamb that gets led to, to unnecessary slaughter. And today it is Suicidal. Because AF has to win.

[Mike]

Has to win. Fully agree.

[Colin]

All right.

[Mike]

There's no way around that.

[Colin]

There's no way around it. Up next, I'm killing.

[Mike]

We've got live on camera.

[Colin]

Up next, we have Outburst versus ssd. Now listen, dude, these are two, two similar stories here.

[Mike]

You know, I know the youngins who.

[Colin]

Who took the torch and ran to the top of the mountain and kept the world burning.

[Mike]

You know, with this one, I had to go for volume.

[Colin]

You gotta go ssd.

[Mike]

I gotta go ssd.

[Colin]

I agree.

[Mike]

Okay, cool.

[Colin]

As we said last week.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Who knows what the Straight Edge movement would be at all without ssd.

[Mike]

And two, you know, they're essentially compilations. Kids will have to say is a record and then get it away it's kind of a comp.

[Colin]

And then they get away is.

[Mike]

Get it away is incredible. And then they did. You know, they did like a rock record. They did power.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Yeah. May not be your thing, but, like, we can respect it totally. And. And Miles to go stands on its own. It's the most expensive 7 inch, actually. Second most extensive, expensive 7 inch I've ever bought.

[Colin]

Good.

[Mike]

Yeah, but you're talking about a bigger discography, an arguably bigger impact in a place, and they created it there then 100%. So I. I think. I think SSD clears outburst. With all due respect, Outburst.

[Colin]

And. And listen, you heard those honorable mentions lists, you know?

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've already beaten those out.

[Colin]

You. Outburst beat Circle Jerks, you know, so this is no. There's no discredit crediting to anybody who's out in the first round. You made it to the first round.

[Mike]

That's a great. That's a great way to put it.

[Colin]

We love you. That's why you're here. We love most of those honorable mentions as well. So that's. This whole thing is we're. You want to hear about. You already know. Or do you want to get. You want to. If you're a young kid, you want to get put on an outburst, you know? So your uncle. Uncle already taught you about circle jerks. We're here to talk about outbursts. But SSD has to win.

[Mike]

I. I agree. And also, it's like, hey, if circle jerks are. Are grouped up against underdog, guess what?

[Colin]

Underdog's winning all day.

[Mike]

You know what I mean? So it's like we're.

[Colin]

We got to keep it real.

[Mike]

This is just us. We cherry picked Hardler's favorite bands for the most part, sure. So what can you expect? Maybe we should do a bigger one sometime or something.

[Colin]

I don't know, like a 128 or.

[Mike]

Yeah, a giant Carrie.

[Colin]

Next up, we've got. There's. I mean, we're. We're. We're free of controversy so far, which is good. But right now we've got youth of today versus Antidote.

[Mike]

If Vitalo hears about my SSD versus Opera state or our take, I feel as though I will get a text message.

[Colin]

I imagine he will. He's already mad. That token entry is an honorable mention, so there's nothing we could do. You know, this. This. Listen. Antidote. Thou Shall Not Kill. Groundbreaking landmark. Early to the game.

[Mike]

Sonically similar bands too. Antidote is kind of like evil youth of today.

[Colin]

I. I agree. And like, there's There's a few bands on here that figured out where the way they sound seems so intentional so early.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Like though Antidote was dialing in those tones.

[Mike]

Yeah. You know, Dial Should Not Kill is an incredible record.

[Colin]

I agree. But they're up against the Giant.

[Mike]

You're up against arguably my favorite hardcore band. You know what I mean?

[Colin]

Yeah. And, and it's got to be youth today.

[Mike]

And again, we're talking about cultural impact, us, a subcultural movement. Coining a phrase.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Like, again, we're talking about Youth Crew. Like they coined that, you know, that, that matters. We're getting nitpicky because these are all of our favorite bands.

[Colin]

Also, the use of today. Family Tree.

[Mike]

Yes.

[Colin]

Is all over this.

[Mike]

Yes.

[Colin]

And, and it kind of all the use of today are the roots of the tree.

[Mike]

Yes.

[Colin]

So it's youth today here.

[Mike]

Okay, great.

[Colin]

Now we've got a Kaiju fight. Up next we've got Boston's Finest versus. Versus Versus the band. God. Slap Shot versus Negative Approach. All right, listen, this is, I, I feel, I, I really feel for Slap. Anybody that had to go against Anger Approach was going to have a bad time.

[Mike]

Yes. And, and I agree. I, I, I am one of the biggest Slap Shot fans that I personally know. It's like me and Alec favor. That's it. I love Slap Shot. But I'll tell you who I bet Alec likes more. You know what I mean?

[Colin]

Negative Approach.

[Mike]

Negative Approach.

[Colin]

Negative Approach.

[Mike]

They're the band changed the world. It's who they all wanted to be.

[Colin]

You know, who knows what this bracket would sound like if Negative Approach never existed. You got to give it to Detroit's finest here.

[Mike]

Without, like, it's a hands down, there's no argument there for.

[Colin]

Agreed.

[Mike]

All right. We're, we're.

[Colin]

This is, this is a lot. This is our smoothest bracket so far.

[Mike]

Just because this is the, the next ones are where we pit our actual.

[Colin]

Favorites against the bottom right is gonna, we're gonna get into some trouble. Okay. But right now, Black Flag versus War Zone.

[Mike]

Now this is an interesting one, isn't it?

[Colin]

It is.

[Mike]

They're very different bands.

[Colin]

Very different.

[Mike]

You know, Black Flag. What I could. I've never been a huge Black Flag guy. I like Pettibones work for Black Flag more than I really like their music, you know. Interesting. But what they did as far as like touring and playing everywhere. Pretty amazing.

[Colin]

I mean, but, but regardless of your, like, the, the work is the work, you know?

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Colin]

Those records are monumental.

[Mike]

All of them.

[Colin]

Change the misfits as we know. Earth. Who. Earth. AD Wouldn't exist without black.

[Mike]

And, like, I. I like Rollins. I think DEZ is kind of the guy. I like Keith even more. And then the other guy's sick, too. You know what I mean? Like, I don't. There's the one guy who's saying, I'm like, one record, you know? So it's like. There's eras. The impact can't be overstated.

[Colin]

Sure. Damage is absolutely goaded. And then you.

[Mike]

Listen. I'm with you on the war zone 7 inch. You have Todd Youth in a backwards hat. And I find out they're like a skinhead straight edge band. When I'm 16. Black Flag's got a song about six packs.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Mike]

And.

[Colin]

Yeah. Well, the TV party. I'll be there.

[Mike]

Yeah. You're right. Yeah.

[Colin]

But this is just. I'm going. What am I. What are. What am I throwing on right now?

[Mike]

Yeah. How are we. Yeah. You know, what we should have done in the beginning is, like, not what we prefer. How are we determining? You know, there's no.

[Colin]

There's no criteria there.

[Mike]

It's just.

[Colin]

It's gut. Gut feeling.

[Mike]

If it's gut, then it's War zone. All day.

[Colin]

100. And it's. This is. This is us. We understand, like, legacy. It. Ha. It's going to Black Flag all day.

[Mike]

Yeah. To the Final Four, for sure.

[Colin]

Yeah. Easily.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

And we. We don't question that. That's. That's beautiful. I. I would never deny that. What am I putting on right now?

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Lower east side.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Don't forget struggle.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

All day.

[Mike]

You know what I just realized? In neither honorable mentions or the bracket are the misfits.

[Colin]

That. That's. That's the best punk band. They don't. They don't even belong in this, you know, the stratosphere.

[Mike]

It doesn't matter. Yeah.

[Colin]

It's fine.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

So War Zone, it's got. It's. It's. For us. It's War Zone. I can see that's. That being where, you know, the public's choices veer off. But we are who we are.

[Mike]

And listen, we are talking hardcore.

[Colin]

Hardcore, you know, And Black Flag is. Is one of the most influential punk bangs of all time. And most. They are a hardcore man, you know?

[Mike]

Yes. Yes.

[Colin]

In terms of impact. Legacy music, but it only got harder from there. And Intro, Bust or TV Party. Come on. Sick of it all. Versus Orange County's finest uniform choice.

[Mike]

So I love uniform choice. I love straight and alert. I like Screaming at the Sun. I like Unity. I like Pat debar's catalog. You know what I mean?

[Colin]

Oh, I'm in. What a record.

[Mike]

You know, I'm not a huge Sick of It all guy.

[Colin]

I'm a huge sick of it.

[Mike]

So this is kind of where I don't really have a dog in the fight. I can't tell you the last time I listened to Straight and Alert, you know, I mean. Or the.

[Colin]

I mean, I listened. I put it on today and yesterday just to. Just to get my head in the game here.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Unbelievable sounding record.

[Mike]

It does sound good.

[Colin]

Times change, people change. Sing Along One of the Goats. You know, Sick of It all is sick of it all here. I may not be in this chair without the Step down music video.

[Mike]

I think. I think objectively it has to be Sick of it all and.

[Colin]

Which, like, ruins our black flag war zone argument. But I'm saying, I'm. You're saying that I'm saying subjectively. All day blood sweat, no tears Just look around Scratch the surface alone clear. I would take over the uniform choice also.

[Mike]

I think it holds up what we're saying, because Sigma is a hardcore band that is still rocking.

[Colin]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike]

You know what I mean?

[Colin]

And. And they're on Fat Wreck. They did it, dude.

[Mike]

Yeah, I'm. I'm so, like, I'm.

[Colin]

I'm.

[Mike]

I'm all in. I, I, I can objectively say that that's the correct answer.

[Colin]

Excuse. Okay, I, I would agree. We got a barn burner up next. Dude, this is.

[Mike]

Why would she do this? Why would she do this?

[Colin]

She's a sadist. All right, guys, the next bracket is judge versus Leeway.

[Mike]

Are you going leeway right off the rip?

[Colin]

I mean, I am.

[Mike]

This is the first one I read where I was like, oh, we're gonna disagree on this.

[Colin]

I, I am. I certainly am. And I, I, But I. I hear you, you know? Yeah.

[Mike]

I don't know if it's. Because, look, Judge seven inch, amazing lp, bad seven inch.

[Colin]

Right.

[Mike]

You know what I mean? That's it.

[Colin]

And they were like, okay, we're done. We can't do this.

[Mike]

We're done. Leeway. What we. When we're talking about impact, and we know what everyone in. In from our New York hardcore chronicles talked about AJ and the importance of his guitar playing, which.

[Colin]

Which, you know, Judge was the same thing to a lot of people as. As we found Straight edge. That's a great factor.

[Mike]

That's. That's a whole other thing for sure.

[Colin]

But Leeway, enforcer demo, born to expire, Desperate measures, open Mouth kiss, Adult crash. I love three of those. I like two of them. Yeah, I would, I would say no skips other than. What is it? Catholic high schools. I don't love that one, but that's fine. You know, I, I, I don't think this is a no brainer.

[Mike]

Yeah, it's a brain, but it was.

[Colin]

It was a fast answer for me. This is tough, but it to me, overall, it's leeway.

[Mike]

I like Born to expire. I like Desperate measures. I love the Judge 7 inch. And I love bringing it down.

[Colin]

Of course, dude, bringing it down is if you go a while without putting it bringing it down on, dude, it hits like whatever crack they weren't taking, they may be smoking now that they're not straight edge anymore, you know? Yeah, I don't know. That's not for me to say. But I think it's leeway. You're going Judge.

[Mike]

Yeah, I mean, that's what's on mine for sure.

[Colin]

So we can call, I think we call in a judge.

[Mike]

We got to call somebody on this one for sure.

[Colin]

For lack of a better word, we're gonna call on a guest here to settle this debate.

[Mike]

We have to try to pick a, the, the least biased person. So it actually, maybe it has to be someone from New York. Although anyone from New York.

[Colin]

I don't think so.

[Mike]

They're all going to choose Leeway. All of them.

[Colin]

I agree. There it is. There we go. Hey, is that better? That's better. Okay, great. What's happening? All right. To help us settle this debate, we have none other than Mr. Todd Jones. Yeah, Todd, we've got a big question for you. Okay. Judge or leeway? All right, now, what's the, what's the sub. What's the content matter? What's the subject matter? What's the subject matter is we're crowning the best 1980s hardcore band of all time.

[Mike]

Well, I'm into the question. Tell him it's the first round. Leeway and Judge.

[Colin]

This is first round, dude. Leeway, Judge. First round is diabolical. I have to go with Leeway. Thank you, Todd. I said the same. It was tough.

[Mike]

It was tough.

[Colin]

It's tough. But like, I think I connect with, with Leeway a little bit more than I do Judge and I like Judge particularly. My favorite judge record is the New York Crew 7ish. And there's some real, I mean, front to back, that record's great. Fed up, dude. Fed up is top 100, you know, easy. Yeah. New York crew. Come on.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Thank you, Todd.

[Mike]

You're welcome.

[Colin]

We may be calling you again. I may. I may need a couple more audibles called. Yeah, call me back.

[Mike]

All right.

[Colin]

Thank you, Todd.

[Mike]

All right, so that's that. I like that. Yeah, I like just an outside. I'm gonna go leeway. Okay.

[Colin]

Okay, so now that that's settled by the great Todd Jones, we move on to our next bracket. This is Gorilla Biscuits versus Discharge. Hell.

[Mike]

Okay, so again, Gorilla Biscuits have a seven inch and an lp. Discharge kind of started hardcore pioneers that.

[Colin]

Everybody ever is ripping off to this day. It's got to be discharged.

[Mike]

The D beat, you know, I can't Discharge beat. I love Gorilla Biscuits, truly. Actually, as I get older, I find I appreciate them more than I did when I was younger. I completely agree, but I can't argue with Discharge.

[Colin]

Discharge. Discharge is discharge, you know, so you keep that energy.

[Mike]

Next round, fucker.

[Colin]

All right, I, I, I, I will. I. Oh, actually, I may not. All right, we're moved. That's our left side, guys. So we've got first winners. Agnostic Front.

[Mike]

Yep.

[Colin]

Ssd. Youth of Today, Negative Approach, War Zone. Sick of It All Leeway and Discharge.

[Mike]

Wow.

[Colin]

Heavy hitters. Some heavy hitters left behind as well. This is crazy.

[Mike]

Oh, this. All right, guys, this is gonna be interesting.

[Colin]

Bracket time. Right side, here we go. We've got Poison Idea, The Kings of the Northwest versus Reno's finest. Seven Seconds. And you know. Seven Seconds. Highly influential band. Groundbreaking, beautiful, melodic. They did it all. But unfortunately for them, they're up against the Giant.

[Mike]

I don't know, man. Sometimes David beats that Goliath, you know what I mean?

[Colin]

He does.

[Mike]

I.

[Colin]

Not in this case, brother.

[Mike]

Listen, but if we're talking about impact, like, better youth. Put out youth today.

[Colin]

That's cool. Yeah, they.

[Mike]

They like Seven Seconds. The crew and the Blood and Gut. CP and Walk With Us. Rock with us. Rock with us. Walk with us. I can't. I can never remember. I don't know. I feel like fuck.

[Colin]

We can. I mean, we can call on a judge, but I think. Did you. Did you put seven Seconds in your bracket?

[Mike]

Oh, yeah. Wow. Like, immediately.

[Colin]

Well, then, I mean, I think this calls for another judge, an intermediary.

[Mike]

Who are you gonna call? No one's gonna pick Seven Seconds. I'm surely.

[Colin]

Dude, this Poison idea, man. I know, but I think I. I like, I'm. Take all due respect to Seven Seconds. They're on here.

[Mike]

You know, I legitimately think, if I'm not mistaken, the first two albums, first two pieces of vinyl I ever bought, one was the Lowest of the low 10 inch and number two was seven seconds, the crew.

[Colin]

So why don't we call Scott? Yeah, that seems appropriate.

[Mike]

That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah, I like that.

[Colin]

Yeah. What do we got? All right. Mr. Scott Vogel is here to help us settle a debate. Scott, this is. We got a tough bracket here.

[Mike]

What's the, what's the premise?

[Colin]

The premise is we're crowning Overall the greatest 1980s hardcore band of all time. Time. But this bracket we've got right now, that we need your help, we're at a standstill. It's Poison Idea versus Seven Seconds. You're out of my.

[Mike]

You're out of my realm. But I'm going Seven Seconds.

[Colin]

Yes, I, I, I, I imagined you may, but I, I do think we called the right guy here because you're able to be super objective.

[Mike]

Yeah, Poison Idea really doesn't mean much to me.

[Colin]

And Seven Seconds is possibly. If you don't consider DRI then Seven.

[Mike]

Seconds, the first hardcore band I ever saw headlining. Beautiful. The show. Beautiful.

[Colin]

Called the wrong guy.

[Mike]

Turns out that is true.

[Colin]

Beautiful. All right. Thank you, Scott. I may call you again later. Good luck, dudes. Thank you. Bye. Okay, Jerry. I tried, man. All right? I'm trying. All right. Seven Seconds in a shocking moves. On to the next and a big upset to me. But you know, all due respect, this understood.

[Mike]

Sucks.

[Colin]

This side is brutal, dude. Minor Threat versus Breakdown. Oh, how do you do this?

[Mike]

I. I want to hear you reason this out. Actually, there's no.

[Colin]

The, the reason here is that like Minor Threat to hardcore is like Van Halen to electric guitar. You know, like legitimate mountain to high gain guitar.

[Mike]

Just Mount Rushmore band, like. But actually, you know, period there it's on Stigma's top four.

[Colin]

That, and that's. That's huge. You know, the Minor Tret record.

[Mike]

Yeah. Who.

[Colin]

Who knows what would happen without the Minor Tret record? Break down like one of my favorite bands. You know what, what do I listen to more? As in my adult life?

[Mike]

Of course.

[Colin]

Breakdown.

[Mike]

Of course.

[Colin]

What do I, who do I. Minor Threat, One of the greatest bands ever. All time, any genre, period. Yes. Gotta go. Minor Threat here.

[Mike]

Okay. Thank God. Because we were gonna run out of people to call. Yeah. Because. Because I break down Thompson Squares. Thompkins Square park was in our last week. Right.

[Colin]

It was the greatest live video ever.

[Mike]

You know, but Minor Threat is again, more than just out of step and the Seven Inches, you know, more than a band. More than a band. Yeah. Yeah.

[Colin]

And like you said, the Breakdown isn't.

[Mike]

But you know, of course.

[Colin]

But walking down the street with my Big Mac.

[Mike]

Hey, like you said about youth today, having roots. Minor Threat, Teen Idols giving way to Minor Threat. There's some serious roots there.

[Colin]

The DC big time roots that, that a lot of these bands owe a lot to.

[Mike]

Absolutely.

[Colin]

Ourselves included.

[Mike]

Absolutely.

[Colin]

So Minor Threat goes on to round two.

[Mike]

Thank God.

[Colin]

I'm sorry to. To Mike and Jeff and everybody else in Breakdown.

[Mike]

But they get it.

[Colin]

You're here, you know, they're family.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Bad Brains vs. Descendants is the next round. To me, this is easy. Bad Brains.

[Mike]

Easy. Bad Brains.

[Colin]

All due respect, Bad Brains are. If they're not in this conversation, we've done something wrong.

[Mike]

You know, they're. They are the band that bands in the 80s were trying to be. It's.

[Colin]

It's Bad Brains. Discharge, Negative Approach. Minor Threat, you could say, are the most influential things on here, period.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

So this is obvious. Next. Next pick. And like, we're going to have to talk about this more later, but. So Bad Brains win easy. We'll save this discussion for the upcoming discourse. Chromags versus Side By Side.

[Mike]

Listen, I love Side By Side. I just discovered a wonderful video that I shared on my Instagram story the other night. Side By Side rocks. One of the coolest CRO mags are a monolith.

[Colin]

Unfortunately for Side By Side, the Chromags are the Chromags.

[Mike]

They are the band. They're. They're the band that made me like, they made me go, oh, New York has good music. You know what I mean? When I was a kid, I thought it was all Boston. So when I was a. When I was young, it was like, oh, they're from New York. Cool. I wonder, I wonder what other bands come from New York.

[Colin]

Interesting. You know, Side by Side, I think is like one of the most underrated all time.

[Mike]

Yeah. Especially in the. In the youth crew side of things. You don't, you know.

[Colin]

Agreed.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

I would say. Ah, perfect record. Yeah. And. And many a great deal of tracks. Chromags are the Chromatics. The Chromag where Age of Coral comes out. Local bands are covering. We gotta know that year. You know, what can you do?

[Mike]

Best wishes, Alpha Omega. I mean, come on. Yes.

[Colin]

I apologize. This was a tough matchup for Side By Side. Who could have. Could have easily gone around 2 or 3, but the chromax win.

[Mike]

Yes.

[Colin]

Here we go. This is a blowout, right? Bold versus Underdog. All due respect to Bold.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Anybody would have lost to Underdog. First round.

[Mike]

First round. Are you kidding me?

[Colin]

To me, like, if Underdog doesn't make it to first or second round, we failed.

[Mike]

Yeah, I fully agree. I'm also. I've never been a huge bold guy, but I am kind of now.

[Colin]

Oh, I have utmost respect for both.

[Mike]

I. I've kind of turned into a bold guy within the last two years. But when. When I was young, it was like, oh, that band sucks. Crippled Youth was better. Was like the.

[Colin]

See, I. I hear. Growing up hearing the. The. The people not liking Bold thing made me spitefully be like, I fuck. I want to. I'm going to fuck with Bold.

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Colin]

Old rules. But they're going up against a giant here. To me, I don't want to imagine a world with no Underdog in it, you know, I refuse the zero skips to me and the under Underdog discography.

[Mike]

Zero. There's zero. Like, every part feels intentional. You know what I mean? Like, everything on those records feels intentional.

[Colin]

And they're. They're another part of the youth of today family tree. And it's just a fascinating story to follow just to see these roots grow into this. And like, in terms of motherfuckers singing over hard music.

[Mike]

Singing, singing, singing, singing. Yeah.

[Colin]

Where would I be today without Underdog?

[Mike]

Wow. I mean, Bold also has quite the connection to all the youth of today. Crippled youth shit. So it's all intermarried. But yeah, I think Underdog clears Bold.

[Colin]

Under Underdog clears. Underdog clears. Underdog may be the dark horse pick could in.

[Mike]

In some spots, in some.

[Colin]

Could make to the final.

[Mike]

Yes, there you go.

[Colin]

Good way to put it, cuz. God, what a ban. Straight Ahead versus Turning Point. We got a. We got a nasty one coming, folks.

[Mike]

Listen, I fought for. For Turning Point to be on this list because they started in 88. They started late compared to a lot of the bands. And from demo to Darkest and then into the stuff like the. The kind of post hardcore they put out, there is not a single skip. Turning Point's important to me is actually cannot be like overstated. Like, I love that band. I don't know how to compare it to Straight Ahead.

[Colin]

Straight Ahead is groundbreaking. God. Tier S tier hardcore music. Straight Edge.

[Mike]

But. But not only him, only Craig I get to know.

[Colin]

Well, Tommy, I think it was. It was who? Straight Edge.

[Mike]

Oh, you're right. Tommy Carroll.

[Colin]

I get to hear about it from him. So it's fine, you know.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Colin]

I. To me, this is. This is Straight Ahead in a runaway.

[Mike]

Interesting.

[Colin]

So I think we're at an impasse.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Mike, I think we got to Call on an expert here.

[Mike]

You gonna call about this? I wonder what Scott would say about this, actually, because I know he's a Turning Point guy.

[Colin]

He is. That's why I'm not gonna call him. Hello?

[Mike]

What's going on?

[Colin]

We've got Mark Porter from Floor Punch here.

[Mike]

Perfect.

[Colin]

Porter, we've got to ask you something very important.

[Mike]

All right.

[Colin]

We're at an impasse. We're still on round one of the draft. Okay. This is to Crown the best 1980s hardcore band of all time. We've got a. A damn near impossible match up here. Straight ahead. Yeah. Versus Turning Point.

[Mike]

Oh, what?

[Colin]

It's Straight Ahead?

[Mike]

Not even close. Yeah. No. Turning Point has Slap Base, bro. That automatically disqualifies them, and they're New Jersey and I still love them, but Slap Base is a disqualification.

[Colin]

You heard it. Slap Base, I can't argue, is a disqualification. He's. Where are you right now, Porter?

[Mike]

I'm at my son's.

[Colin]

I'm a. I'm at my son's football practice. They are currently running the bleachers behind me.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Colin]

Can you imagine a more appropriate place for him to be than his son's football practice? Yeah, Straight ahead, all the way.

[Mike]

Okay. It's gonna come down to Agnostic CRO Mags, I think.

[Colin]

Spoiler alert. Thank you so much, Porter. We will. We may be calling you back for. For round two. Please do.

[Mike]

I look forward to it.

[Colin]

Thank you, sir. Later. See ya.

[Mike]

I can't argue with that. What are you gonna say with the guy from New Jersey telling me what it is? So there you go. Hey, I tried.

[Colin]

Oh, this is good.

[Mike]

I tried.

[Colin]

You did try, and it was valiant. And listen, Turning Point, I'm also.

[Mike]

I'm not, like, mad about it.

[Colin]

No. But one of the, like, groundbreaking melodic band paved the way for a lot of the emo and post hardcore and all that stuff.

[Mike]

I don't like. You know what I mean? But.

[Colin]

But I really paved the way for all the. I like.

[Mike]

Maybe that's the way to look at it. Really good point.

[Colin]

No, I mean, that's tough because it's.

[Mike]

A good point is all I'm saying.

[Colin]

Yeah, it is a great point. Thank you, Porter. That was great.

[Mike]

All right, this is the thing that's going. This matchup is going to make me lose my mind. I cannot.

[Colin]

But they're. They're on here, though, you know? Yeah, but, dude, Dys versus Dag Nasty.

[Mike]

And listen, we're gonna pick Dagnasty with Dave to make it interesting because then he's singing for Both bands, can I say. Has Brian Baker and Dave. Can I say it's like a perfect kind of post hardcore, more skater vibe. Very melodic, very influential dys.

[Colin]

But again inspired a lot of. I don't.

[Mike]

With 100% dys. Another Boston heavy hitter. Wolf Pack Brotherhood. Hateful. I gotta go. Dys.

[Colin]

Oh, wow.

[Mike]

I have to. I have to. I have. I. Dude, here's the thing.

[Colin]

Love it.

[Mike]

Okay, great. Because dagnasty. Also, I only really like. Can I say I don't like wig out very much.

[Colin]

When we were texting about this bracket, you were telling me how hard you were gonna fight for Dag Nasty.

[Mike]

I was. Until I really. You and I kind of framed at the beginning with like SSD and Agnostic Front. Suicidal. Like we kind of framed how we have to think about this. And it's not just preference, it's more than that.

[Colin]

DYS is. I mean both bands change the game in many ways. Dys. I was D. DYS all day.

[Mike]

Okay. Yeah, I'm with you. Fire and Ice, you know, like the rock stuff later on, you know. So I'm just saying like they did both have.

[Colin]

They all. They both have that, you know.

[Mike]

Yeah, they did a lot. So I think this.

[Colin]

Personally, I'm a. Do I ask guy.

[Mike]

Okay. Oh, this is.

[Colin]

This is tough. This is tough because we've got Negative Effects. This is your guy.

[Mike]

Yeah, this. This is for those of you who don't know it goes last rights. Negative Effects. Slap Shot is all. Jack Choke Kelly's bands. He's hanging all of them.

[Colin]

All bangers. Unfortunately, in this case, they're up against the giant.

[Mike]

I can put it simply. As much as I love all of that shit, especially the Negative Effects years and the comp. None of them touch bright side. None of them touch bright side.

[Colin]

And that's all due respect.

[Mike]

It's all. Is it literally. I. Who talks about early Boston shit more than me?

[Colin]

You're the guy.

[Mike]

I love it. But none of it touches bright side. And that's just objectively. Dude, you're not come even.

[Colin]

Dude, even the demo is half of them damn songs and they're already got it.

[Mike]

Royal Deal demo rocks.

[Colin]

And you look at. You look at 88. Demo comes out, right? 89 bright side. 90 last show. The video we talked about last week. Sickest thing I've ever seen done. That's. That's a two year legacy. And everybody in New York is there killing each other. This is. This was tough. This is a tough matchup. This is another one of those things where whoever was Against Raw Deal. Killing Time in the first matchup was losing.

[Mike]

Yeah, it's a tough period. So. But yeah, I think it's. It goes without saying. Bright. Bright side is that's it, you know.

[Colin]

So that concludes round one.

[Mike]

Yes.

[Colin]

Our winners for the round one, right side are seven seconds.

[Mike]

Yes.

[Colin]

Minor Threat, Bad Brains, Chromax Underdog, Straight Ahead, DYS and Raw Deal Slash Killing Time.

[Mike]

All of these I'm happy with.

[Colin]

I feel. I'm pleasantly surprised.

[Mike]

Yeah. You know, like, is this.

[Colin]

I. I did not expect Straight Ahead to make it through. I figured figured you would be tears in your eyes fighting for Turning Point, you know.

[Mike]

I love Turning Point.

[Colin]

Please. That's what I thought it was going to be.

[Mike]

I love Turning Point. But. But I can be. I can be objective about some bands.

[Colin]

All due respect to Turning Point, truly. They're on here, you know.

[Mike]

Yep.

[Colin]

Straight Ahead is straight ahead.

[Mike]

So is this the semi finals now?

[Colin]

No, this is the. This would be the quarterfinals.

[Mike]

Isn't quarter when there's a. Okay, okay. Quarterfinals.

[Colin]

You'll see.

[Mike]

Gotcha.

[Colin]

We. Did we make this mistake every time. This is the quarter.

[Mike]

I don't know how to do this for us. Yeah.

[Colin]

All right. Round two begins with Agnostic Front versus ssd.

[Mike]

This is cool.

[Colin]

This is awesome.

[Mike]

They're kind of. Dude. There's history there. There's like. You know, there's a couple feuds that have happened. Similar time frame, similar time frame, similar movements. Similar. You know. This is cool.

[Colin]

But you look at. You look at overall discogs and. And output. I gotta go. Af.

[Mike]

Of course, there's no argument there.

[Colin]

All do like ssd. We bow down. You know. We thank you. Rip Al. AF is af.

[Mike]

AF is af. Yeah. All right.

[Colin]

Beautiful. Next round we've got Youth of Today. Holy versus Negative Approach.

[Mike]

I'm going to argue for youth of today, obviously, but I'm going to. To do it because of the Straight Edge thing. Because of the subcultural sub. Sub. You know, like double subcultural impact.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Mike]

And like kind of the youth crew thing and because they're my favorite band.

[Colin]

I hear you. I respect you. You know, we do this show every week.

[Mike]

Alec.

[Colin]

It's Negative Approach.

[Mike]

Call Alec.

[Colin]

You want me to call a guy from Grand Rapids, Michigan?

[Mike]

Yeah. A Straight Edge guy who loves Rev shit as much as me.

[Colin]

You're fucked. You're.

[Mike]

No, I have faith.

[Colin]

All due respect.

[Mike]

You today I have faith in the.

[Colin]

One of the. One of the greats. Can't wait to have him on someday. It's Negative Approach. There he is. Okay. We have Alec Faber. Holy blade. God's hate twitching tongues. To answer this diabolical next question, for which Bo and I disagree, Alec, we're doing a tournament bracket to Determine the greatest 1980s hardcore band of all time.

[Mike]

Okay?

[Colin]

The matchup you need to determine is Youth of Today versus Negative Approach.

[Mike]

How? Okay, I mean, I think objectively it's negative Approach because without them, you don't get af. Without af, you don't get everything else.

[Colin]

Everything else. What are you putting on right now?

[Mike]

I'm putting on YouTube today because I.

[Colin]

Can sing along to it, but this is subject. This is subjective. This is. This is. What do we. What do we. Who do we like more?

[Mike]

You know, who do I like more? The answer is Youth of Today.

[Colin]

For me, like to. They.

[Mike]

They're the most important band to me. But if you put. If. Who's more important to like hardcore as a whole, it's negative approach for sure. But you can't do. We. We're not doing. I don't know what your criterion is.

[Colin]

But the criterion is ultimately whatever you decide. Who are you saying the winners? Because I say a negative approach. Bo says Youth of Today. You. You are the final say.

[Mike]

Negative Approach. Detroit Hardcore.

[Colin]

Boom. Excellent. Thank you.

[Mike]

I tried.

[Colin]

You did? You did.

[Mike]

I think.

[Colin]

Oh, no, no. But Scott sided with you. Other than that, I think I'm. I'm three for four, so.

[Mike]

Well, yeah. You. You lined up all your judges? I got a line. I got.

[Colin]

No, but please.

[Mike]

Hold on, hold on. I got it.

[Colin]

Well, yeah, next one. Call caution. All right, next up, big matchup. Huge war zone versus Sick of it All.

[Mike]

I'm going warslim.

[Colin]

I'm going Sick of It All.

[Mike]

Yeah. Jesus.

[Colin]

So here we are.

[Mike]

How about that?

[Colin]

Make. Make the call, brother.

[Mike]

Well, okay, let me. Hold on. Give me a second.

[Colin]

This. I, I, I, I, I, I'm. It is what it is.

[Mike]

I know who to call in.

[Colin]

When I was in elementary school, I did a. There was a report about, like, my day. Like, my. My day in fifth grade or fourth or fifth grade or something. And in the book report, I'm going to try to find it. I mention. I go and then I say something like. And then I listen to in the Underground. My whole life, I forgot what song that was throughout my youth and tried to figure it out and realize elementary school me was talking about Step Down.

[Mike]

Oh, really?

[Colin]

In the Underground. I thought it was called in the Underground. So I was born with blood, sweat, no tears up my ass, and it lives there to this day. So I'm going to circle it All I just. All due respect to Warsaw.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Are you gonna call?

[Mike]

I was. I'm trying to get a hold of Aaron Warman, who I think would be a good. He would stay sick of it all, though, wouldn't he?

[Colin]

I don't know. Why don't we call Vital?

[Mike]

Vital would be good. You want me to call him?

[Colin]

I can do it. All right, here we have Mr. James. Oh, we're live. Well, we're live.

[Mike]

Let's do it.

[Colin]

What do you got, James? I've got, I've got a big matchup for you right now with the Mets hat. It's very appropriate for this. Yeah, we're in the second NAF basketball jersey. Beautiful. This, this second round matchup, we're at a standstill. We need you. Warzone versus Sick of it all. Wow. Isn't that tough?

[Mike]

How do I feel? Totally off guard. I just feel like naked in the woods right now because I answered this in a basketball jersey, a hat that I'm proud of. But I'm just totally shocked right now. And then the question you're asking me is cr. Crazy.

[Colin]

I know.

[Mike]

Wow. Can I ask some questions on, like.

[Colin]

How you're getting these answers? Absolutely. Our, our goal here was pure gut feeling.

[Mike]

Yeah. It's just like gun to your head. You got to make a decision.

[Colin]

Gun to your head. You got to make a. You got to make a decision. I went Sick of it all Both said warzone. And I'll have you know that warzone beat Black Flag in the first round.

[Mike]

As they should have.

[Colin]

Yes.

[Mike]

As they should have.

[Colin]

Oh, my God.

[Mike]

I think it's pretty impossible to be. Plus sweat, no tears. I'm staying Sick of it all thank you.

[Colin]

I, I think longevity has to be a factor here. And that's, that's a huge part of my thinking.

[Mike]

You're not wrong.

[Colin]

And just into, like, the sheer discography, discographal output, you know, and you're saying.

[Mike]

Sick of it all.

[Colin]

I'm saying sick of it all. I think you're saying sick of all that. I hate the situation I'm in right now. I think it's good. What do you say?

[Mike]

I'm flipping.

[Colin]

Oh, I'm going War zone. Wow.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Shocking.

[Mike]

That's why he's our manager. I'm not happy about it.

[Colin]

I know, but you went warzone and, you know, listen, that's gut. Gut is gut. And we, we thank you. We may, we may be calling you back for round three. Okay.

[Mike]

All right.

[Colin]

You heard that?

[Mike]

There we go.

[Colin]

I, I, I, I don't entirely Disagree.

[Mike]

Right. That's kind of the fun of this bracket is like, they're all winners.

[Colin]

Anybody that wins, I'm gonna be like, yeah, that makes sense.

[Mike]

That makes sense. Yeah, exactly.

[Colin]

Especially if it's underdog. But just saying. Yeah. Okay, so Warzone goes on to the next round, which is. And up next, we've got a doozy.

[Mike]

This is kind of all you because you're.

[Colin]

You think so?

[Mike]

You're a bigger leeway guy and a bigger discharge guy than me.

[Colin]

Okay, I'm going to defer leeway versus discharge. If you're going impact, legacy, etc. It's discharge. If I'm going raw, gut, personal. What. What am I putting on right now? I listen to leeway thrice a week. I'm going Leroy.

[Mike]

And I think that's fine. I think. I think there's a lot of. There's a lot of purists who are going to be like, you guys are nuts.

[Colin]

And we are.

[Mike]

And we are. Yeah, right?

[Colin]

We're crazy to do this in the. In the first place. You know what?

[Mike]

We're crazy, but not insane.

[Colin]

Hey, there we go. And there we have it. We have our left side. Quarterfinals.

[Mike]

Yep.

[Colin]

I think.

[Mike]

I think.

[Colin]

No, this is not the quarterfinal. I think this is just round two.

[Mike]

Oh, okay.

[Colin]

Quarterfinals next.

[Mike]

It was when there's four. So is this the semifinals now?

[Colin]

No, this is the. This would be the quarterfinals.

[Mike]

Isn't quarter when there's a. Okay, okay. Quarterfinals.

[Colin]

You'll see.

[Mike]

Gotcha.

[Colin]

We did. We make this mistake every time. This is the quarter.

[Mike]

I don't know how to do this for us.

[Colin]

So we. Our winners are Agnostic Front.

[Mike]

Yep.

[Colin]

Negative approach. Sick of. Sorry. War zone and leeway.

[Mike]

Wow.

[Colin]

Stacked. Stacked.

[Mike]

That's a lot.

[Colin]

Scary.

[Mike]

It's a lot of New York.

[Colin]

All right, here we go.

[Mike]

This immediately sucks.

[Colin]

Minor. Do you think so?

[Mike]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Colin]

Minor threat versus seven seconds.

[Mike]

No, it's minor threat. That's Minor threat. You're right.

[Colin]

All due respect, man, I love Reno. My wife's from there. I love gambling. I love mountains.

[Mike]

I did. I worked Riot Fest one year. That seven second seven seconds played and I was selling merch and I met Kevin and just talked to him for a little bit and didn't hit him with any. Any like, hey, I'm a fan. None of that.

[Colin]

Just kind of like, he was awesome.

[Mike]

He was fucking sick. And I was like, you guys sold really well. You have like two shirts left. And he was like, really? Oh, wow. And it was just like thankful and cool and it was like do you want anything of what's left? And I was like, oh, you're the best. And I think, honestly, because they're. They were just like one of that literally bought the crew from Hot Topic when I was like a pre teen, you know.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mike]

That I just have always loved them.

[Colin]

But Minor Threat is minor.

[Mike]

Minor Threats.

[Colin]

Minor Tret is minor Tret is Minor Threat. And what can you do there, you know?

[Mike]

Yeah. Yep.

[Colin]

All right. Minor Threat moves on. And next we've got a doozy.

[Mike]

Yeah. Oh, wow.

[Colin]

We've got the Bad Brains versus the CRO Mags.

[Mike]

I think you and I are going to agree on this.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mike]

For what we want out of this music.

[Colin]

Oh.

[Mike]

The Chromags deliver what we want more, so. Oh, really?

[Colin]

Oh, I'm going Bad Brains, dude.

[Mike]

Because you're a quickness guy, right?

[Colin]

I'm a big. I'm a quickness guy. I'm a big. I can say guy. I'm a big rock. Rock for, like, Guy, really.

[Mike]

So you're going Bad Brains.

[Colin]

I'm going Bad Brains.

[Mike]

I'm going Chromex. Here's the thing. If I call James, it's Chromax. I got little Aaron. I got Aaron Warman on deck.

[Colin]

Aaron Warman is. It would be a good. Would good. Be a good objective take here, I think.

[Mike]

Okay. He says, okay, I'm available. I'm calling him right now.

[Colin]

This is Aaron Warman, Long island legend.

[Mike]

Oh, yes. All right, we got him. This is the Aaron Warman. You guys know him? Briefly from our New York Hardcore Chronicles.

[Colin]

That's right.

[Mike]

A couple cameos, a couple. Couple cams. Yeah.

[Colin]

Short end.

[Mike]

You just get off work?

[Colin]

I just got home.

[Mike]

Perfect. All right, I need you tired. I need your gut instinct on this one. Okay. We're doing the. We're ranking the greatest 80s hardcore band of all time. We have a bracket.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Mike]

Yeah. We're getting kind of far right now. You are tasked with deciding between the. The Bad Brains and the CRO Mags. Get the fuck out of here.

[Colin]

Why am I being called for this?

[Mike]

Long island, dude. I just. I know you can. I know you can provide. You've been out there.

[Colin]

Jesus Christ, man.

[Mike]

I went CRO Mags. Colin went Bad Brains. We both independently love both bands, so it's all. It's all love.

[Colin]

I'm happy with whoever wins.

[Mike]

Right.

[Colin]

Kill your mom or kill your dad.

[Mike]

Yeah, that's literally. That's literally how it feels.

[Colin]

Yeah. I mean, arguably, no Bad Brains, no Chromags.

[Mike]

Sure.

[Colin]

If you know.

[Mike]

But just. Just so you know, Warzone Be back. Black Flag, first round. So we're not really. We're not really doing that.

[Colin]

Yeah. Jesus. Man, this is.

[Mike]

This is tough.

[Colin]

This is heavy.

[Mike]

If it makes you feel better, Vitalo took his decision really hard as well, I could imagine.

[Colin]

All right, let's see. Listen. The Bad Brains are probably the most influential hardcore band ever. And I would say every band on this list would probably say the Bad Brains.

[Mike]

Yeah. But the Age of Quarrel is also.

[Colin]

It's pretty good.

[Mike]

Pretty good.

[Colin]

It's the blueprint.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Yeah. I'm gonna go with the Chromags on this.

[Mike]

Beautiful. Wow. Beautiful.

[Colin]

I. I think this is shocking. Chromags changed the trajectory of hardcore.

[Mike]

Yes.

[Colin]

In a way that has, you know, reverberated through the years.

[Mike]

Beautiful.

[Colin]

You think Bad Brains didn't do that? I don't know.

[Mike]

Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Love the answer. I will. I'll let you know if we need you again.

[Colin]

I wish we had instituted some kind of like, one time. One time veto, ultimate veto rule.

[Mike]

Would you. Was this when you would have used it?

[Colin]

Oh, 100.

[Mike]

I probably wouldn't have used mine yet. If you want to use it, I'll bank it.

[Colin]

No, dude, it's just like, you're gonna see my. This is crazy. This is a. This is. This is, I think, a huge upset.

[Mike]

I think you have to think about the kind of hardcore that we like and we create is more in line with what the CRO Mags did than with what the Bad Brains did. Despite both being influential and I. I agree.

[Colin]

It just doesn't change the fact that, like, I get. I get the same feeling putting on. I can say that I do. Best wishes. You know, you go track for track. Bad Brains has more tracks. No skips for like, a long time.

[Mike]

But. But then you're. So Then you're. You're talking less quantity, more quality. And I'm saying that. That Bad Brains have bad quality songs. I'm just saying.

[Colin]

I'm just saying, even in Bad Brains, greater quantity, the quality does not cease for a long time.

[Mike]

Are you questioning versus.

[Colin]

Versus near death experience?

[Mike]

Are you? Well, sure, but are you questioning our judge's decision?

[Colin]

No, I mean, it's. Listen, I'll allow it. Aaron. He's been around a long time. All right. Chromags goes on to. To the quarterfinals. Wow.

[Mike]

Three for three. We're three and three, by the way.

[Colin]

All right. It's pretty good.

[Mike]

I'm stunned. Yeah, I'm kind of surprised too. But I'm glad I chose that hill to die on, because I really do think Like, I don't know, man. There's. There's a. Chrome Mags would say Bad Brains.

[Colin]

Chromex would say Bad Brains. Bad Brains would also maybe say, like, we're not a hardcore band. What are you talking about?

[Mike]

Right?

[Colin]

What is. You know, we don't care what you're talking about.

[Mike]

We play youth. Youth energy music, you know, which is.

[Colin]

Dope, but pretty dope. But I want hardcore. Flying the hardcore flag either way.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

I. I will die on the Bad Brains hill here.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Colin]

But, you know. You know, I love the Chromatics, so.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

So at the end of the day, I ain't mad about it.

[Mike]

He was right. Kill your mother, kill your father. It was. That is what.

[Colin]

It was. Very difficult.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

This is one of the. That was maybe one of the toughest choices we'll. We'll have to make. Up next we've got Underdog versus Straight Ahead. It's Underdog, okay? All due respect to Straight Ahead, whom I love dearly, Underdog is. This, is. This is. This is a. An essential vitamin to me.

[Mike]

A daily.

[Colin]

So this is a daily driver for me. Underdog.

[Mike]

One a day.

[Colin]

Come on, it's got to be.

[Mike]

I agree. I agree.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Mike]

I wonder. I bet you, Rich, you would say, are you fucking crazy?

[Colin]

But those are like, you know, they're. They're legit contemporary bands.

[Mike]

Yes.

[Colin]

You know, essentially.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Okay. We've got DYS versus Raw Deal Killing Time here.

[Mike]

Listen, I have to be objective and I have to be fair. It's. Bright side, it's killing time.

[Colin]

It's killing time.

[Mike]

It just is. And I love dys. Love dys.

[Colin]

No matter how you spin it, you're up against King Kong.

[Mike]

Yeah. Straight up.

[Colin]

I will find other monsters to use, trust me.

[Mike]

But, yeah, I think that's. That's pretty easy. That's an easy.

[Colin]

This is. That. That was an easy one. And therefore we have.

[Mike]

Wow.

[Colin]

Our quarterfinal set in stone. On the. On the right side now, we have Minor Threat, the CRO Mags, Underdog and Raw Deal Killing Time. On the left side, we have Agnostic Front, Negative Approach, War Zone and Leeway. Holy moly.

[Mike]

You know, Colin, I'm starting. I'm starting to get sweaty. Starting to get me, too. I'm starting to get stinky.

[Colin]

I actually have a cure for that.

[Mike]

You're kidding.

[Colin]

Yeah. If you go to manscape.com there's a product to make the sweatiest, stinkiest in the world.

[Mike]

You're kidding.

[Colin]

Just completely sane and normal.

[Mike]

What kind of products could this be?

[Colin]

Don't get me Sir, Products such as the crop reviver, which is an easy spray for you don't have to get in the shower.

[Mike]

That's the best application. You know what I mean?

[Colin]

100 is like, oh, I just went to the gym. I kind of stink. I'm about to hit the pit. Spritz, spritz. They'll. They'll smell me coming, and they're gonna love it.

[Mike]

They're gonna welcome you into that pit.

[Colin]

The crop preserver. Post shower. Rub a little bit on there. It's like liquid talc. It's incredible.

[Mike]

It's awesome.

[Colin]

The lawnmower. Keep the lawn mowed. You know, when the hedges aren't trimmed, you can get bugs in there.

[Mike]

The weed whacker, cleaning out your nostrils. Clean out your ear hairs. If you got those. The body Lord knows my dad does. Yeah.

[Colin]

And Father's Day is some.

[Mike]

At some point this year, neither of us would know. But it is.

[Colin]

And if you use Code Hard Lore, you're gonna get 20% off and free shipping site wide. Come on. You can't miss it. This episode is also brought to you by madvintage.com M A D D vintage dot com. Every single band we've talked about is probably represented on there in some way.

[Mike]

That's. That is 100 true. Including many. So this is memorable. Honorable mentions.

[Colin]

Oh, yeah. All 73 of them are on there right now. You go check it out and use code hard lore 15. You're gonna get 15 off your order and you're gonna need it because this stuff adds up, especially with how old some of these damn bands are. Luke is also looking to buy your stuff.

[Mike]

And let me tell you something. He's getting good stuff and he's paying well. You guys gotta get a hold of him. He'll. He'll. He'll buy your stuff that you're looking to offload. He's got all kinds of metal, punk, rock, hardcore, rap, like wrestling, random miscellaneous stuff on his site. He's also going to be in person at LDB Furnace Fest. And I believe, tied down.

[Colin]

So sell him your stuff and you may see us wearing it in a future episode.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Okay. I think it's quarterfinal time.

[Mike]

Yeah, I think so. This is big.

[Colin]

This is big.

[Mike]

It's getting heavy.

[Colin]

Our first match up here. Agnostic Front. Goliath versus Negative Approach. Goliath.

[Mike]

I knew it.

[Colin]

Gorilla versus Kong.

[Mike]

Yeah, I. This is a crazy one.

[Colin]

This is crazy. Knee jerk.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

AF Yes.

[Mike]

I agree. I agree. And I love negative approach.

[Colin]

100 and like. Like, like many have said, like we have said. Who knows where we'd be with that negative approach. But AF has such an expansive discography.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

That evolves and ebbs and flows. And they got some new stuff coming that may blow our minds. To me, this. This is. I am proud to send Agnostic Front to the semifinals here.

[Mike]

Okay, I agree. That hurts to do it.

[Colin]

That was painful. Our next quarterfinal matchup. War Zone versus Leeway. Foreign. I'm going leeway.

[Mike]

Okay. I'm going War Zone. But I don't know. I don't know if I can argue it. You know, it's just like what I'm gonna. I know what I'm gonna put on is gonna be leeway. Because I know War Zone like the back of my hand. I'm less verse with leeway.

[Colin]

There's a reason, you know. Like the back of your hand.

[Mike]

Yes, of course.

[Colin]

You want to call on a judge?

[Mike]

Who could we call? You got somebody?

[Colin]

Let's get Porter back on.

[Mike]

You want Porter?

[Colin]

He had. You know he did. Straight ahead and Turning Point. Now let's give him.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Let's give him some Hard to talk.

[Mike]

About leeway and warzone.

[Colin]

Mr. Porter, we've got you back.

[Mike]

Yes.

[Colin]

We are in our quarterfinal matchups here. Now. We've got a big one here. Okay? War Zone versus Leeway. Two NYHC classics. I'm gonna air with Leeway.

[Mike]

Due to the full catalog and each record being amazing. That's a fair argument.

[Colin]

You know, War Zone for me is basically. Don't forget the struggle in the seven inches. I'd have to tip my hat to Leeway. Outstanding answer. Outstanding answer.

[Mike]

But two.

[Colin]

Two classics nonetheless. That is a tough one. But I have to give it to Leeway. Two of the greats. I respect the zero hesitation. You. You had no preparation whatsoever for this. And. And he came swinging heat. I'm locked in.

[Mike]

I'm locked in.

[Colin]

You're always locked in. Thank you so much, Porter. Appreciate your help.

[Mike]

Have a good night.

[Colin]

You, too. Take care. Take care.

[Mike]

All right. I'm not angry at that legend.

[Colin]

He's so awesome.

[Mike]

Golly way.

[Colin]

Yeah. So that's. That's our quarterfinals.

[Mike]

I'm not. I'm not angry at that.

[Colin]

The semifinal matchup is Agnostic Front versus Leeway.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Chills. All right, we're going to the right side of the bracket here. The first quarterfinal matchup for the. The right upper right district is Minor Threat versus the Chromax.

[Mike]

I mean, come on.

[Colin]

What are you saying? Come on.

[Mike]

I'm saying Chromax. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love Minor Threat. But also, Minor Threat discography is pretty short. Pretty.

[Colin]

It is.

[Mike]

You compare that to.

[Colin]

I got. But here, dude, this is my original. My bracket.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

That I did independently.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Bad Brains goes real far, huh?

[Mike]

They're gone.

[Colin]

So I'm.

[Mike]

They're gone.

[Colin]

I don't know what to do.

[Mike]

You gotta let it go. You think. You think I didn't have youth today?

[Colin]

No, I definitely do. Chromax versus Minor Threat. You're going, no hesitation. Chromax.

[Mike]

What am I putting on? Yeah, yeah. What do you think?

[Colin]

That may be true, but this is one where I'm really thinking about, like, the best 80s HC of all time.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Minor Threat is Minor Threat.

[Mike]

They're. They're up there. They're. Some might say semifinalists, quarterfinalists at least, Right? One of the two. But yeah, CRO Mags to me, from musicianship to evolving as a band, to having an impact and to kicking ass and having a message with. Whether you're into the Krishna or into the vegetarian, whatever, they had a message.

[Colin]

They.

[Mike]

They were there. And Minor Threat did, too, but it was very, very short. And then after Minor Threat, they all very purposefully did, like, soft stuff to be like, oh, we're done with that. We're over that. Embrace Rites of Spring Fugazi, you know?

[Colin]

Yeah. But I almost wish Chromax had done that, having heard Near Death Experience. You know what I'm saying?

[Mike]

But what I'm saying is, by the time Minor Threat was done, you wouldn't have gotten the best wishes. So I'm just saying, like, when you.

[Colin]

Really want Grand Scope, Like I've listened to Age of Quarrel.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Maybe more than I've listened to anything.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

But this is. This is hard. I'm. I might need a little help with this one.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Colin]

It's really hard for me to make a pick. Minor Threat versus Chromags.

[Mike]

James must be a Kenpo or something. He's not responding.

[Colin]

My. My gut says Chromax. My heart says Minor Threat.

[Mike]

Interesting. You know, my gut says Chrome Mags and my ass says Chromax. You know? Yeah.

[Colin]

Strong Chromax. I think. I think we gotta get somebody on the horn here.

[Mike]

All right? Calling James for that would not be fair. So my judge would. I mean. I mean. Yeah, one record.

[Colin]

All right, Todd, I'm sorry in advance to do this to you. I've got a brutal one here. This is. This is a quarterfinal matchup. Okay? Minor Threat. And listen, this isn't. This isn't like, legacy or importance. This is like what you're putting on, right? Now, okay, Minor Threat versus the Chromex Minor Threat, no question. Which one's a better? Old school hardcore man.

[Mike]

I'll see. See, he's, he's.

[Colin]

But it's. And it's like you. The old school isn't even the factor. It's just like, right, who's winning?

[Mike]

Yeah, right, right.

[Colin]

You know, I think there's a. I think there's more of an emotional depth to Minor Threat and more of a musical depth to Minor Threat than there is CRO Mags. I mean, as great as Age of Coral is. God.

[Mike]

Age of Coral is great.

[Colin]

God is great. It's so good. But it's, It's. It's very narrow. It's very.

[Mike]

Like the.

[Colin]

The lyrics and the music, they all. I don't want to say everything sounds the same, because it doesn't, but it does have, like a very similar tone across the album. There's like a. There's a vibe.

[Mike]

Interesting, for sure.

[Colin]

You know, very cold. It's very. I would call Minor Threat, Beatles esque in their. In their. Their career is so sure and so impactful and that what they managed to do with so little, to me, is as much of a factor as a band having some expansive discography.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Colin]

Yeah. In my. On planet. On planet. Tj. Chromax died after Asia. Coral. I don't care about anything after Asia.

[Mike]

Maybe not the best judge. So. Okay.

[Colin]

I might not be. I might not be the. The person to ask on this one. Okay.

[Mike]

Planet.

[Colin]

No love for best wishes. And I probably never will. Wow. Breaking news. Yeah, I mean, I don't. I don't like. What are their other records? What's Alpha Omega? Alpha and Omega? The Near Death Experience. Yeah, that's the one I'm thinking about. Like, when I got into hardcore. Those records are super corny. And I. I'm not gonna say they're still super corny. Like, I think I understand them more a little bit before I did then, but it was just like Age of Coral and that demo was where it was at. That. That's like CRO Mags. Sure. Like all the other things, it was just like. Like, to me, Best Wishes sounds like a second or even third rate, like wannabe Master of Puppets.

[Mike]

Wow.

[Colin]

And then the other is just like what they. What is the song? Eyes of Tomorrow. Yeah. I love that song. It's like. It almost sounds like Biohazard, which Biohazard is cool, but. And yeah, I don't know, man. I'll be the right person for this question.

[Mike]

No, maybe we'll consult.

[Colin]

Maybe we'll consult a bonus judge here. I think you might need to. All right, that. But hey, we. Your input is. Is invaluable. Thank you so much, Todd. Thank you, guys. All right, we'll talk to you soon. Later. See ya. Stunning revelations in the quarterfinals and all.

[Mike]

I see is miss every yancer row.

[Colin]

The great song. I have a tattoo from that song.

[Mike]

Hold on one second.

[Colin]

Do we wanna. I mean.

[Mike]

Yeah, I'm thinking about it.

[Colin]

I'm. I'm still torn because unlike Todd, I. I love best wishes. I love Alpha Omega, but he is right. Like when I. Those were. That was not a popular opinion to have 100.

[Mike]

It was only worry about age of coral. Don't worry about the rest. But that's almost threat. It's almost an argument for why he's a better judge. Cuz it's kind of an equal body of work between the two.

[Colin]

I. I agree. I think. I think it's. I think it's Minor Threat.

[Mike]

Okay. I. I can't be mad about that, can I?

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Oh, Minor Threat is in the final four. Great. You know.

[Colin]

Yeah, I. I think. I think that, you know, the only thing that robs us of is. No, I don't want to say it yet, but.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Colin]

Yeah, but my minor threat goes on. You know what I'm saying?

[Mike]

Same outcome.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mike]

So it's all good.

[Colin]

Agree.

[Mike]

It's all good. All right.

[Colin]

All right. Our next quarterfinal match. This to me has to be the most devastating one yet.

[Mike]

This is a. This is a rough one. God, I wish. James. Okay, go ahead, introduce it, please.

[Colin]

Underdog versus Raw Deal slash Killing Time.

[Mike]

This one's crazy.

[Colin]

I hate this because I don't.

[Mike]

I don't actually know how to really answer it because Killing Time is so perfect.

[Colin]

Perfect demo, perfect LP done that have. And then, you know. No, they got. They got more. But Perfect demo, perfect LP.

[Mike]

Yeah, sure, sure, sure.

[Colin]

Whereas Underdog, perfect 7 inch, where none of the same songs are on the LP.

[Mike]

Right, right.

[Colin]

Perfect LP. That is like a crazy jump in evolution and doesn't make sense. It's innovative. Nothing sounds like 100%.

[Mike]

What sounded like bright side, you know.

[Colin]

Dude, when you put. Oh my God. Right side is crazy.

[Mike]

Think about Fool's die.

[Colin]

Tearing up.

[Mike]

I. I don't.

[Colin]

This is up.

[Mike]

Who's the most objective judge we could have on this?

[Colin]

I think we got to start this one out ourselves.

[Mike]

Okay. Okay. Well, listen, we.

[Colin]

We love both of these bands, bro.

[Mike]

It's Underdog.

[Colin]

It has to be Killing Time. Right?

[Mike]

I just. I think the. The Zoom Thing happened, and I went, it's Underdog. Then you said, it has to be Killing Time. I'm just thinking, what am I putting on? It's going to be Underdog.

[Colin]

I mean, dude, I. I literally breathe, sleep, eat. Underdog.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

All day, all night.

[Mike]

All right.

[Colin]

I celebrate Birkenhead Saturday every. Every Saturday. I know.

[Mike]

It's on the Hard Lord calendar. Every Saturday.

[Colin]

You're like, what do we got today?

[Mike]

Oh, all right. I'm fine. The final four, being what it's about to be, is fantastic.

[Colin]

If you have any reservations.

[Mike]

I only have a reservation because of how much I love Underdog.

[Colin]

I'm with you.

[Mike]

And how much more, I think, how diverse and dynamic their music is. Those are the two things.

[Colin]

Plus, I would agree. I would. I would be quicker to say, like, Underdog. Discog as a whole.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Goaded. I'll take it over almost anything. Ever. Bright side is easy. Top four Harcourt Records, ever.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Colin]

Therefore, I think maybe that means they should be in the top four.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Colin]

To the semifinals. Listen, it's weird because, like, I want to say Underdog.

[Mike]

Yeah. That's where I'm at, I want to say.

[Colin]

But I think. But I think it is Killing Time.

[Mike]

Okay. All right. I'm fine. I'm. I agree. Yes. It is currently killing time.

[Colin]

It. It has to be killing time. Underdog is the underdog, just like me. And. And. But they got. They got here, you know?

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

And again, in a different matchup, Underdog's making it to the finals on tomorrow. If we did this tomorrow, Underdog may win, but right now, Killing Time has to go to the semifinals.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Colin]

I think.

[Mike]

All right, so what are our. What are our top four, Colin?

[Colin]

Our semifinal matchups are here. On the left side, we have Agnostic Front versus Leeway. On the right side, we have Minotret versus Raw Deal. Killing Time.

[Mike]

Yeah. Crazy that Killing Time made it this far.

[Colin]

That's awesome.

[Mike]

Kind of crazy.

[Colin]

Could have been. It would have been just as cool if Underdog made it this far, you know?

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

And this is all. This is all due to the. The seating, you know, of course. Because again, like, if you Etch a.

[Mike]

Sketch this thing, it's totally different.

[Colin]

Totally different.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Bad Brains could have gone all the way. Maybe should have gone, but. But here we are. First up, Agnostic Front versus Leeway. I. I'm. I'm pretty confident in saying that. It's. It's Agnostic Front.

[Mike]

Okay, good, good. 100.

[Colin]

Agnostic Front should go to the finals.

[Mike]

Yes.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Mike]

180S hardcore band.

[Colin]

80S hardcore Agnostic Front has to go to the final.

[Mike]

So. Okay, beautiful. Now we have.

[Colin]

That's that. And now we've got a doozy. This is so funny. Minor Threat versus Raw Deal and Killing Time, who is one band. I don't know if we've clarified that yet, obviously.

[Mike]

Yes. How does this make you feel?

[Colin]

Good. It makes me feel. It makes. I'm having fun.

[Mike]

Because everything that can be said about, like, the. The CRO Mags, one LP kind of in demo, can be said about killing time 100%. Right. So it's kind of the same argument.

[Colin]

But.

[Mike]

But see, this is what's interesting is, like, I want to go Chrome Eggs over my threat, but I kind of want to go Killing Time over my threat. But when I see that on paper, I don't know if I can sign off on that. How about I call a judge?

[Colin]

Who.

[Mike]

How about I call James Plicky or Chris?

[Colin]

Okay.

[Mike]

What do you think it's called, Chris? He's never on the show.

[Colin]

I'm open to it because I'm. I'm stunned here.

[Mike]

Maybe for the final, we call James because I know.

[Colin]

I feel like a. A flash grenade just went off.

[Mike]

I got you.

[Colin]

Minor Threat versus Killing Time.

[Mike]

I'm gonna call Chris. He's never been a guest judge on the show. He's a little camera shy.

[Colin]

Huge day.

[Mike]

Big day. Look at this handsome man walking his dog.

[Colin]

Look at that hair. Shawn Hunter esque.

[Mike]

You can't hear Colin, unfortunately, but we're. We are. We have a bracket going, Chris, where we are determining the best 80s hardcore bands. Okay. Okay. And we got you down to a quarterfinal. Semi final. We can't figure it out yet.

[Colin]

This is a semi final.

[Mike]

Semi final. And this is a diabolical matchup. We've been calling various judges, and I needed you on this. Your bracket is Minor Threat versus Raw Deal slash Killing Time. That's a tough one for me, honestly. Go ahead. Sorry. No, no, it's tough for us as well, because, yeah, you got to keep in mind, Minor Threat has made it this far. They've beaten CRO Mags seven seconds. You know, bands within that tier, they've beaten some serious bands. So, like, they've made it far. Yeah, no doubt. So it's. It's hard for me to not personally go with Minor Threat, just given the. The impact that Minor Threat had on my life. And personally, what I think the impact Minor Threat had on just, like, hardcore.

[Colin]

Straight edge.

[Mike]

Hardcore in general, dude. And like DIY and punk and. Yeah, yeah, I mean, no doubt, right? Like, you can't. You can't separate it from, like, Discord Records, you know? Yeah. Like, what that label did for DIY music, hardcore music, you name it. So, like, personally, I gotta go. I gotta go with Modern Threat just because it was obviously pretty instrumental to. Yeah. My love for punk and hardcore, you know? Yeah. And obviously, like, you can't. Can't separate both the legacy, personally. So. I think that's right. I think that's right.

[Colin]

I think I'm with him.

[Mike]

We're. We're with you. We just needed somebody to let us down softly, you know? Yeah. Go. All right, buddy.

[Colin]

All right.

[Mike]

I'll talk to you later.

[Colin]

Standing. See, I. And you know that my gut and heart say Minor Threat, but, like, put Bright side on right now. Pause on.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Listen to the whole thing and tell me that ain't top four all time. Come on. That's. Oh, that's what it's all about.

[Mike]

I just got chills.

[Colin]

I know I did it at the gym today. I couldn't believe it. I may do it after, but I think that we got that. That means our finals are set.

[Mike]

This is beautiful.

[Colin]

This is incredible.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Our finals for the best 80s hardcore man of all time. Agnostic front versus minor threat.

[Mike]

Wow. This is a tale. Is a tale as old as in time. A Tale of Two Cities.

[Colin]

A tale as old as in time. This is Godzilla versus As like, if. So if Tokyo had a Godzilla.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

And Osaka had another Godzilla.

[Mike]

Two Godzillas.

[Colin]

This is the same thing. Imagine that.

[Mike]

That's a good one.

[Colin]

There's other Kaijus, but other two Godzillas, because that's what we have here. Agnostic Front versus Minor Threat. I'm going af.

[Mike]

Think I am, too. Think I am, too. I love Minor Threat, but again, it's. It's a. A couple. The discography is like a comp. You know, It's. It's essentially a compilation record versus several.

[Colin]

Influential AF records, several lifechanging LPs in different eras of hardcore. And, like, eras of hardcore are short. Very, you know. Yeah.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Two, three years, maybe. And AF adapted and ebbed and flowed through every single one of them to this day and evolved brilliantly and perfect to this day. And that is maybe the ultimate argument. AF has to win this.

[Mike]

Should we call people just to solidify?

[Colin]

Because I think that would be fun.

[Mike]

I got to get an. I mean, out of James, you know?

[Colin]

I would like to hear that.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Colin]

I think we only called Scott once, so I think we got to get one more Scott.

[Mike]

Good. Here he comes.

[Colin]

All right.

[Mike]

Buddy boy, you're on the show. We are ranking the best 80s hardcore bands in our finals. We have. And you're. We need you to weigh in on this. What you think is the best hardcore band between Agnostic Front and Minor Threat?

[Colin]

Oh, Agnostic Front. Not even close.

[Mike]

Expand on that for me.

[Colin]

To me, Agnostic Front is probably the earliest thing that I would say is influenced modern hardcore more than anything. I mean, that they had short songs, they were fast, they were angry, they weren't recorded very well. I mean, United Blood 7 inches is absolutely legendary. Don't get me wrong. I mean, Myron Threat obviously influenced Straight Edge and influenced a lot things, but I'm talking.

[Mike]

When you.

[Colin]

When you think about 80s hardcore, I mean, I think Agnostic Front has influenced way more bands than Myer Thread has in the past 40 years.

[Mike]

Wow.

[Colin]

Just my opinion.

[Mike]

Beautiful. Perfect. That's what. That's what we needed.

[Colin]

Sound reasoning.

[Mike]

Thank you, buddy.

[Colin]

You got it.

[Mike]

See it.

[Colin]

All right. I mean, that's pretty resounding win for af.

[Mike]

Hip shot just. Nope. You know.

[Colin]

Yeah, that was. That was. No question. Oh, and I agree.

[Mike]

I think I have to, too. I just. It's nice to hear if we don't have a bias in this discussion.

[Colin]

Yeah, I don't think we do. I think this is. This is pretty objective here, and I.

[Mike]

Think our reasoning for it makes total sense.

[Colin]

I agree there's. There's many factors to consider. And. And I think Agnostic Front checks every box. Longevity may be the. The biggest one that that may be.

[Mike]

And. And please let's reiterate the whole like. Like, did I have the Discord first 5 or 6, 7 inches box set.

[Colin]

Mm.

[Mike]

And you look through these things, and it's like a faithful recreation of all that they made by hand with scissors and glue, you know, and they made all of them. And, like, that's really cool.

[Colin]

None of this happens really, without that. And the minutiae of it all is so cool. And I like that. Those are the things. I can't wait to talk about them.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

With them someday is just like, how do you get people to be aware of this show you're playing? You know, how do you figure out which glue to use with the flyers, you know?

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Or the records.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Colin]

So that is all obviously so important. But af, in many arguments, I would say. But Minor Threat is Minor Threat.

[Mike]

Right?

[Colin]

In this argument, I would say. But Agnostic Front is Agnostic Front.

[Mike]

They're Agnostic Front. And also, like, let's not forget what they and Vinnie did for, like, cbs.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Just like the shows happening in hardcore matinees happening.

[Colin]

And what do they often refer to.

[Mike]

As the godfathers of hardcore?

[Colin]

And there you have it.

[Mike]

There you go.

[Colin]

Agnostic Front is the greatest 1980s hardcore band of all time. We want to, we want to congratulate all 32 nominees here. If you all had a shot. Truly. Yeah, Honor dog, you really did.

[Mike]

You really did. We also want to give a shout out to all the honorable mentions. Should I, should I list them again? Okay, yeah, we want to give a shout out to all the honorable mentions. By the way, just real quick. Decroit and Zero Boys, Effigies, Dicks, Dead Boys, Millions of Dead Cops, Adolescents, Antidote, Naked Reagan, Chain of Strength, Dead Kennedy's, doa, soa, Fuze, Jerry, Kids, Fear, Gangrene, Flipper, Germs, Life's Blood, Government Issue, Iceman, Iron Cross, jfa, Kraut, Meatman, Minimum, Murphy's Law, Necros, Nerve Agent, Sub Zero, Project X Ray. And Youth. Youth Red Cross, Youth Defense League, Scream Siege, snfu, Subhumans from Canada, of course, tsol, Teen Idols, Token Entry, Undead, Urban Waste, Rest In Pieces, Verbal Abuse, Bad Religion, Social Distortion, and who can forget the Circle Jerks? Definitely not us.

[Colin]

And Crackdown. We forgot Crackdown. That's it, folks. That's our, that's our time. That's our episode.

[Mike]

You know, I, I, I must protest, sir. You and I have separate brackets that we need to share.

[Colin]

Oh, you're right, of course. So here's mine. You'll see. AF still making it to the finals. But I got Bad Brains in the finals with them.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Colin]

And AF still wins. So we. I came upon the same winner.

[Mike]

Interesting. Interesting. Yeah, so I went. My top four were Youth Today, CRO Mags, Killing Time.

[Colin]

You had User today on top.

[Mike]

I have Youth Today all the way, baby.

[Colin]

Really?

[Mike]

They're my favorite band. They check every box possible for me. Wow.

[Colin]

So this is drastically different from.

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah, I really with, with mine. I answered from the heart. Boom.

[Colin]

Did you have Underdog in the semis?

[Mike]

Underdog lost to Turning Point.

[Colin]

That's diabolical.

[Mike]

I love Turning Point. Turning Point. I got into Turning Point long before I got into Underdog. I didn't get Underdog at first, okay? So there's a certain sense of nostalgia for me.

[Colin]

Dude, the, the toughest matchup for me easily was Underdog and Raw Deal. Killing Time.

[Mike]

Yeah, that is, it is a crazy tough one. But now for that. So I, I went Turning Point and then Killing Time. And between the two, I went Killing Time.

[Colin]

Yeah. Easily.

[Mike]

Just to show you that I'm. I'm. I'm still grounded. I just got there different ways, you know.

[Colin]

So who made it to the the top semi?

[Mike]

The top semi was AF versus Youth of Today.

[Colin]

War Zone on the top. Right. I mean, sorry.

[Mike]

Oh, my bad. It was Minor Threat and Chromags and.

[Colin]

Then Chromags went to.

[Mike]

And Chromags. Yep. Went to the finals and then Turning Point and Killing Time. So, yeah, it was YouTube today. Chromags, Judge Killing Time and Youth today.

[Colin]

Went all the way to.

[Mike]

Today. Went to the. To the moon, baby.

[Colin]

So that's a very different list. You'll see.

[Mike]

Very different.

[Colin]

Together we're different, but I'm somehow the same. And that's our episode. Folks. I'm sure you're pissed or you can understand our sound logic here, but, you know, we. We got some objective judges here. We got some, Some. Some people we respect, you respect to. To help us aid in this. Aid through this journey, you know, so here we are.

[Mike]

Yeah, I. I love doing these because you and I are just in the trench together.

[Colin]

Like, there's no taking grenades, getting our limbs blown off and surviving to love Agnostic Front.

[Mike]

Yes.

[Colin]

That's worth it. Thank you all so much for watching. We are so sorry for what you put. We put your brains through and we'll see you next week. Bye.